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Lizette
01-13-2006, 06:30 AM
And just to be clear... i understand that all girls have different dance abilities and still love the art of exotic dance... but the girls who whine and complain and do not even WANT to be on stage... are the ones that piss me off when they call theirselves exotic dancers. They complain about a few minutes away from hustle time and stuff. I encounter alot of girls like that.

I'm so glad you said this! I find it laughable that "exotic dancer" is used interchangeably with "stripper." Exactly what dancing do most girls do? We have many different catagories. And, we may fit more than one.

Stripper
Stripteaser
Exotic Dancer
Lap Dancer/Private Dancer (Tina Turner!)
Entertainer

And all this doesn't include contact.

miabella
01-13-2006, 06:48 AM
i am fully aware i am a minority on this site in having this opinion, but i do believe a dancer can provide fantasy even including contact. the mere act of touching another person doesn't magically erase the fantasy element or necessarily reduce it. it is curious that in other realms of performance, intimate (not necessarily but including sexual) contact isn't considered something that erases the fantasy, but in this particular kind of performance, girls who touch the boys are held by default to be doing a lesser thing. i guess i have trouble with such a constrained idea of 'fantasy' as being entirely accurate or valid in this particular realm of sexwork.

Melonie
01-13-2006, 07:29 AM
Nicolina and Brigette have pretty well summed up the changes in the exotic dancing industry over the last 10-15 years. However, there is one 'wrinkle' that helps one to understand these changes which might not be all that obvious at first glance ... and particularly not so obvious if you weren't around 10 years ago to see for yourself how clubs and club customers operated back then.

I contend that where 10 years ago the vast majority of strip clubs were 'show clubs', in fact the US exotic dancing industry of today has split into two segments. There are still a handful of 'show clubs', where dancer performances, contact levels, customer expectations, and customer spending habits still basically resemble the industry in general of 10 years ago. By modern day 'show clubs', I'm talking about PEC in Manhattan, Cheetah 3 in Atlanta, etc. etc. Girls who are 'lucky' enough to be hired in modern day 'show clubs' still enjoy major league earnings potential, customer respect, 'civilized' club customers with decent amounts of money to spend, and little contact. However, the bad news is that modern day 'show clubs' now comprise less than 20% of the business (lately probably down to 10% from the standpoint of total dancers working today).

The other 80-90% of the business IMHO cannot truly be called the exotic dancing industry any longer, at least not compared to the definition of the term 10 years ago. Instead it might be more aptly referred to as the trailing edge of the 'sex business'. Nearly everything about the business model of non 'show clubs' in the US today revolves around either outright sex for money, the implied promise of sex for money, unmet customer expectations of sex for money, or at the very least an undercurrent of sex for money. Customers going to these clubs, by and large, are on a budget and are seeking maximum 'bang for their buck'. Owners/managers running these clubs are also seeking maximum short term profit potential (partly out of greed, partly out of fear that a new ordinance may put them out of business). Some dancers in these clubs are quite comfortable giving the customers exactly what they want, and have decent earnings potential as a result.

Other dancers in these high contact clubs, or dancers in clubs which do not offer high contact but do not appeal to 'upper class' customers often find themselves struggling from an earnings potential standpoint, either trying to sell low/no contact lap dances which customers on a budget are not very interest in buying, or selling low/no contact lap dances under actual or implied 'false pretenses' i.e. letting the customer believe he will (eventually) receive more than the dancer is actually willing to deliver. IMHO this is the area which has seen the greatest decline in earnings potential, and which will continue to see the greatest decline. Based on the progression of changes over the last 10 years, it's quite likely that 10 years in the future the upscale low/no contact 'show clubs' will remain (financed by rich upscale customers), the high contact 'sex business' clubs will remain (financed by customers on a budget seeking maximum bang for their buck), but the middle of the road clubs will simply be gone due to lack of business/earnings potential.

Sorry Lizette, but customer expectations are likely going to get worse instead of better, due both to less discretionary spending budget being available on the part of average club customers (energy costs, rising taxes, outsourcing etc.), and due to an increasing number of young and/or financially desparate dancers being willing to rub guy's c#cks in exchange for $20 per 3 minutes (or willing to do even more in exchange for a $50-$100 tip). As you point out, this essentially leaves dancers who aren't working in the upscale 'show clubs', and who aren't willing to compete stroke for stroke in the high mileage department, regularly contending with 'unsatisfied' customers and falling earnings potential.

~

Melonie
01-13-2006, 07:55 AM
It seems like there would be a lot of money to be made by running one (or a chain) with effective management and business practises. And, if you believe all the quasi-religious lore about the wonders of free markets (which I don't really), then the situation doesn't make sense; the poorly run places should be replaced by well run ones via competition

The problem is that, in every important way, strip clubs are a gov't regulated industry. Where regulation is light and free markets prevail, history has more or less shown that high contact and 'extras' are the natural result of the industry giving customers what they truly want ! Another variation on the theme in areas where regulation is light is the acquisition of most/all independent clubs in a particular city by one chain, who then gets to dictate dancer working conditions and payouts city-wide (WalMart = DejaVu !).

Where regulation is heavy, club owners are at constant risk of being 'regulated' out of being able to run a profitable business altogether by local anti-dance club laws and legal fees. In most areas of the country, strip clubs today are an 'insecure' business which causes club owners to give little thought to long term investment to improve their club (or cultivate 'professional' dancers), and lots of thought of bilking every possible dollar from customers and dancers alike in the short term (and deal with high dancer turnover) based on the premise that the club may be forced to operate unprofitably under new anti-dance club laws at any time. Another variation on this second theme is the club being forced to operate illegally (vs letter of the law re contact levels, distance rules, taxation) in order to remain profitable, at which point the clubowner is naturally reluctant to increase the value of any business assets which could potentially wind up being forfeited.

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Lizette
01-13-2006, 08:15 AM
i am fully aware i am a minority on this site in having this opinion, but i do believe a dancer can provide fantasy even including contact. the mere act of touching another person doesn't magically erase the fantasy element or necessarily reduce it. it is curious that in other realms of performance, intimate (not necessarily but including sexual) contact isn't considered something that erases the fantasy, but in this particular kind of performance, girls who touch the boys are held by default to be doing a lesser thing. i guess i have trouble with such a constrained idea of 'fantasy' as being entirely accurate or valid in this particular realm of sexwork.

By contact, I mean the custys grabbing boobs, etc. A dancer touching a shoulder or a knee is playful and teasing. I do have problems with dancers reaching down pants or stroking "it" through clothes.

I'm sort of in a gray area with respect to grinding. However, hard grinding (ie wild, dirty f*cking with clothes and you know it when you see it, noises and all) is not on my menu of services. I don't like that most dancers "have" to do it to make a measly $1. I did not see any of it 10 years ago. And now it's out in the open.