View Full Version : Where to draw the line for lap dances...
greenidlady1
03-14-2006, 11:38 AM
So, you think women need to strip to keep up with the rest of society? You strip right? I was indicating what a lot strangers may think about us dancing.
greenidlady1
03-14-2006, 11:40 AM
Ummm, I'm to good to do it :-X
Good for you. You have your choices and I have mine. ;)
onlythebest
03-14-2006, 11:42 AM
Good for you. You have your choices and I have mine. ;)
You don't feel good about grinding and yet you choose to.Ask yourself that important question.
If every dancer jumped off the bridge,would you follow suit???I mean,everyone else is doing it right?????
See, and that's the problem. There are so many girls willing to go that "EXTRA" mile that so many of you feel the need to keep up. It kills me how so many on this site complain about the dreaded extras girls...What do you do when your mediocre grinde dance becomes boring? You're gonna feel the need to "keep up" again huh?
It's sad. Newbies learn the art of dance by watcing you vets. If you train a girl how to dance the CORRECT, and classy way, then she will in turn dance that way. And then the next girl thereafter.
I dont know..do what you want. But I think this is the #1 reason why so many "good" clubs quickly turn into brothels. There are to many girls with the mentality of "I gotta do what I gotta do"
True, true. the girl that taught me how to dance barley spent anytime grinding.. I learnd that its all about the placement of hands, eye contact, and to jsut do what you feel sexy doing.
getting your crotch felt on is nice, but it is a relationship sort of thing. You are a dancer to give fantacy, to give them somthing that they are not getting everday. how many wives will dance seductivly for their husbands? if they did we would be out of jobs. Point is we are there for entertainment. we are not a vibrator.
onlythebest
03-14-2006, 11:53 AM
getting your crotch felt on is nice, but it is a relationship sort of thing. You are a dancer to give fantacy, to give them somthing that they are not getting everday. how many wives will dance seductivly for their husbands? if they did we would be out of jobs. Point is we are there for entertainment. we are not a vibrator.
Yay,we have another one that thinks this way!!!!!
greenidlady1
03-14-2006, 11:55 AM
That's an extreme example, of course I wouldn't risk my life. I simply said I prefer doing less for the money. I don't mind grinding but I don't love it either. It's all an act. Hell, I prefer not to dance at all but I choose to do it to better my life style until I finish school.
well its an extreem business, im not saying that because you grind you are bad... im not. Its a personal choice.
greenidlady1
03-14-2006, 12:05 PM
Exactly, it is a personal choice. :)
I just know where both sides are comming from. At the club that i am working at now, we are about 5 minutes from mexico, and about 15 minutes from a whore house, so the guys expect a little bit more. and i am the only white girl in a club full of mexican dancers. its hard cause i dont know any spanish, and alot of the girls will "go the extra mile". its really hard to make money the old fashiond way, so i dont make alot of money. but i live nicely... i just couldnt go home at night and lay down next to the love of my life feeling another mans touch..
threlayer
03-14-2006, 09:04 PM
We all have different preferences. If you have a differnt one that I do, that does not reduce your worth as a person. However, it may mean that we will not do certain things when together. This is a very general thing between people. I have a good friend who is a very conservative guy politically and I'm a centrist. We just anger each other when we talk anything near politics, even though we try to hide it personally. So we completely avoid the topic.
If a dancer does not like to give contact dances (or at least will not give them, and someone wants a contact dance, well, just dont dance for the person; the custoimer wil have to find another dancer to spend money on. Let's at least be honest about what's on the menu.
miabella
03-14-2006, 09:49 PM
i am tired of girls with attributes like being a rare and sought after physical type or working in a convention-dominated city (or both) behaving as though every girl can play such cards to get out of contact dancing. we can't all work no-contact, it WAS NEVER ALL NO CONTACT IN THOSE SUPPOSEDLY GOOD OLD DAYS, and contact in itself is not wrong.
those men for a long time weren't strange to me. they were a handful of guys i wanted to make forget about the entire world except me for a short while. if i provide(d) contact, it was in service to that ideal of intimacy and care. because i wanted to touch them, i did, and they knew i wanted to and that i didn't loathe them or deem them unworthy to be near me.
i don't find customers creepy little trogs to be tolerated minimally. even when i'm getting paid just to hang out and talk, customers are impressed that i do seem to actually give a shit about them.
i am sad that due to being in a committed situation i can't give my kindness to a handful of select customers i genuinely like spending time with naked or clothed, but that is just my personal view that no sex worker should be in a committed relationship while doing such work. and yes, even the champagne room airdancers are sex workers. i've yet to see an airdance that rivals some of the contact dances i have witnessed for elegance and variety and sensuality and even flexibility. the fantasy can sit on your lap or touch your face and hands and still remain a fantasy.
Djoser
03-15-2006, 12:06 AM
See, and that's the problem. There are so many girls willing to go that "EXTRA" mile that so many of you feel the need to keep up. It kills me how so many on this site complain about the dreaded extras girls...What do you do when your mediocre grinde dance becomes boring? You're gonna feel the need to "keep up" again huh?
It's sad. Newbies learn the art of dance by watcing you vets. If you train a girl how to dance the CORRECT, and classy way, then she will in turn dance that way. And then the next girl thereafter.
I dont know..do what you want. But I think this is the #1 reason why so many "good" clubs quickly turn into brothels. There are to many girls with the mentality of "I gotta do what I gotta do"
That's it in a nutshell. Where I work, and in so many of the clubs in certain areas of the country, if a woman doesn't grind, she just isn't going to make much money.
There is a woman I know whom I call "The Angel", with good reason. She is as fine a dancer as I have seen, and surely as irresistable a woman as I have ever met. Yet night after night, for 5-6 years, I have watched her walk out the door with 70$, while women with not a shred of physical appeal, and little or no dancing skill, walk out the door with 700$, and bruised knees--not from the stage, either.
This is a serious problem, the grinding factor, for so many in the business. I don't judge a woman harshly for it, or even for going further. But it does add to the stress of the job, for a large proportion of dancers who feel obliged to conform.
The one positive thing about the situation is that the natural hustlers seem to make money without yielding so much to the need to conform. But the really good hustlers are rare.
It's no wonder that new dancers seldom last more than 6 months in this area.
Silky
03-15-2006, 02:00 PM
I personally see big problems with the phrase "have to keep up." This phrase allows the girls who are enganging in more hard core grinding to become the trend setters...which in my opinion can only get worse. For this post i will define hard core grinding as dry fucking basically. Alot of people say that this is the way the industy is now... nothing you can do about it(in which they may be right) but making attempts to stable the art of an erotic lapdance could be a better solution than "rolling with the new times." Who knows what can be right? Take a club full of pretty hard core grinders and have them change their ways...it can either become a huge disaster with no business... or start attracting customers who are satisfied with more "fantasy" types of lap dances...as well as new dancers who love to give more of these types of dances. Although we all have personal preferences for what is considered "high contact"... i think most can perhaps agree that the ever popular dry humping a dick, especially for the whole dance, is not very artistic or considered much "talent." I personally believe that a dance can still be beautiful and artistic while sitting on a customers lap...but it does take time to master,patience,,,, and having the opportunity to actually dance for guys who appreciate this and will allow you to take the time to master this art( as opposed to some guy who says sit and grind me,which some nut actually had the nerve to say to me one time.)
onlythebest
03-15-2006, 02:10 PM
I personally see big problems with the phrase "have to keep up." This phrase allows the girls who are enganging in more hard core grinding to become the trend setters...which in my opinion can only get worse. For this post i will define hard core grinding as dry fucking basically. Alot of people say that this is the way the industy is now... nothing you can do about it(in which they may be right) but making attempts to stable the art of an erotic lapdance could be a better solution than "rolling with the new times." Who knows what can be right? Take a club full of pretty hard core grinders and have them change their ways...it can either become a huge disaster with no business... or start attracting customers who are satisfied with more "fantasy" types of lap dances...as well as new dancers who love to give more of these types of dances. Although we all have personal preferences for what is considered "high contact"... i think most can perhaps agree that the ever popular dry humping a dick, especially for the whole dance, is not very artistic or considered much "talent." I personally believe that a dance can still be beautiful and artistic while sitting on a customers lap...but it does take time to master,patience,,,, and having the opportunity to actually dance for guys who appreciate this and will allow you to take the time to master this art( as opposed to some guy who says sit and grind me,which some nut actually had the nerve to say to me one time.)
I love you,Silky.;D
mr_papagiorgio
03-15-2006, 10:32 PM
I've been to a couple clubs where air dances were the norm and I spent 50$ tops. All the other clubs I've visited there was plenty of grinding going on and I spent anywhere from 50$-1500$ in a night. Usually at least a couple hundred in the clubs where there is contact. That is just my personal preference. I guess that is just how I thought most clubs operated.
redvelvetrose
03-16-2006, 04:16 PM
I wish there was a little bit more variety in clubs, because nowadays it does seem as though it's all about grinding and extras. I've noticed this and I don't even strip yet. I personally wouldn't be comfortable grinding on a stranger, but that's just me. Other girls might be fine with that, and that's their decision to make. From what it sounds like, most customers have come to expect more than an air dance. I just wish that wasn't so. IMO, an air dance just seems more sultry and seductive, a look-but-don't-touch kind of thing.
exotic0690
03-16-2006, 04:50 PM
I Don't think grinding crotch to crotch is a big deal at all at $20 per 3 minutes... Really no big deal
Besides, almost every girl at my club does anyways!
Optimist
03-16-2006, 05:08 PM
^^^Didn't you say that two pages ago? I don't think you're convincing too many people. Mr. Papagiorgio, I'd happily do without your money for my self-respect.
Optimist
03-16-2006, 05:17 PM
I'm so Old School. They don't remember but I remember the year lapdancing officially began in New York before Scores and the rest existed. You'd be paid that same $20 and more for no contact and a year later the girls followed people like Mr. Papgiorgio and comprimised themselves. I've known girls who comitted suicide and became drunks and addicts because they couldn't look themselves in the mirror. The compromise isn't worth it. It's not a moral statement for me. It's the reality of what that compromise twists so many sweet girls into by the time they drag themselves out of that lifestyle. (A lifestyle of selling their self-respect).
VenusGoddess
03-16-2006, 07:31 PM
I've been to a couple clubs where air dances were the norm and I spent 50$ tops. All the other clubs I've visited there was plenty of grinding going on and I spent anywhere from 50$-1500$ in a night. Usually at least a couple hundred in the clubs where there is contact. That is just my personal preference. I guess that is just how I thought most clubs operated.
I will never understand why a man will walk into stripclub with his $1500 begging for a stripper to "give more" when he could have just hired an escort and got the bang for his buck he was looking for.
I made all of my money with straight air-dancing. I refuse to grind on any man. Sexiness is in the mind. There is a difference between sex and sexiness...most of the "modern" dancers confuse the two. I've had guys who had grinding dances give me all of their money because I was not grinding them...but I was giving them what the other dancers were failing to do. Whatever it was...by talking to them, I was learning where they were "wanting to go"...whether it was to be seen as the most irresistable man alive, or the richest, most successful...like I was getting off at the mere hint of his breath in my direction. I gave them what they wanted...I stimulated their minds with conversation and not the "how do you like to fuck" talk...but really getting them to open up. THAT is what makes the money...THAT is what gets you out of grinding. THAT is what lets you leave at the end of the night...knowing that some men came in looking for their fantasy woman and it was you. No losing self-respect...no losing any part of yourself.
The new dancers...they just don't get that...it just doesn't register with them. :shrug:
Silky
03-16-2006, 10:26 PM
Somewhere along the line, in most places, the bar dropped between air dances and contact dances, and it just keeps getting lower and lower. One can either help lower the bar, keep it stable, or move the bar back up somewhere. I would choose either of the two, except to lower the bar. The more people who choose to keep this bar stable, the stronger they secure the position of erotic dancers, whose job description is not to make a guy cum(but to keep a sexy fantasy). I do not see the drop being as severe from air to contact dances if they are done tastefully, although "tasteful" is subjective. I have never been exposed to an air dance club, although i would not mind trying one out. Nevertheless, i work with the atmosphere that is provided to me. I have not always been the perfect angel dancer, i have grinded on a crotch before. Thankfully I never succumed to a mans wishes to dry him to "finish.", or do it for a prolonged period of time. I eventually decided to become my own boss because i am worth whatever $$$. I chose to stable the bar(again this is just my testimony.) When i was new, I used to think that a man would think i was great If i automatically got onto his lap...now i really do not want a man who thinks i am great for jumping right onto his lap. My routine now pretty much includes actions such as sexily undressing myself infront of the customer,always keeping seductive eyecontact, brushing my hands in his hair, and brushing my hair across his chest..i keep myself between his leg to stay within my comfort level to not grind near his crotch. Not judging, .. i do think it important for every lady to make sure she is always setting the standard. I really hate hearing the tales of how this "industry is deteoriating(although i believe it right now unfortunately.") Some form of fight, to preserve the artform, should be made somehow,,,sigh.
Foxey
03-17-2006, 01:01 AM
Thank y'all for your wonderful suggestions on how to give a fabulous air dance ::) Very helpful. Saying that grinding is an extra is extremely self righteous. Here I am one of those wicked horrible extras whores because I give contact lap dances and I'm asking for guidance and suggestions for giving lower contact dances and all y'all can do is bicker at each other. WTF! How is that helping anyone who really wants some suggestions? There is a huge difference between dry humping and the occasional 10 second grind in a lap dance. Yeah if you are literally dry humping a custy for the whole song that is just raunchy, tacky, and probably boring as hell for the custy unless they are a total PL. However if you throw in a quick 10 second grind at the end of the song and it sells the next dance whats wrong with that? OMG you're such a better person than me because you hover 5 inches above the guys pants when you're dancing. Do you guys know how ridiculous that sounds? Seriously think about it. Like greenlady said we're all strippers... so she with out sin casts the first stone. So why don't some of you perfect angels share some tips for a more heavenly lap dance instead of bashing the hell out of the rest of us?
miabella
03-17-2006, 02:01 AM
i have said this before and i'll say it again. most people are fundamentally NOT imaginative. there is no 'selling the fantasy' because most people cannot get that far. the few percent of guys who can, they are not necessarily more or less likely to pay for airdances, but they are the bulk of guys coming into airdance clubs and spending 100s for such a thing. and it's fine when you get such guys, but it's basically delusional to assume that 80-90 percent of dancers can ever hope for such customers to be the majority of their clientele. and it's also a bit cruel and selfish to say 'well those girls should just quit then and not even try to dance'. again, it wasn't so halcyon back in the day, either re: contact, just different.
most of the girls who tend to advocate airdancing tend to work in environments where most of the clientele is travelling businessmen and whatnot, which is NOT the norm. and additionally they tend to have some exotic/rare look that is highly sought after by a broad range of customers that spend. so they aren't even the norm in their own cloistered environs. so it's disingenuous for such ladies to argue about how everyone should be like them.
hell, there've been posts in this very thread about women who were sooo irresistible and are only leaving with a fraction of what the evil grinding dancers are leaving with. wtf. if you're so great, you should step up and make that supposed greatness work for you, otherwise you sound just like the waitresses who go home with 60 in a nine hour shift and sneer at the dancers because 'at least i get to keep my clothes on and leave with my dignity'. hmmm. you know?
cinammonkisses
03-17-2006, 04:11 AM
However if you throw in a quick 10 second grind at the end of the song and it sells the next dance whats wrong with that?
Obviously that tactic isn't working for you. You're always complaining about how you aren't making any money ::)
cinammonkisses
03-17-2006, 04:21 AM
if you're so great, you should step up and make that supposed greatness work for you, otherwise you sound just like the waitresses who go home with 60 in a nine hour shift and sneer at the dancers because 'at least i get to keep my clothes on and leave with my dignity'. hmmm. you know?
Mia, we are stepping up! We're trying to prove a point that in order to be the best dancer you dont' have to grind a guy to death. The problem that I've had with this thread is that some people feel like they have to do a little more than everyone else, because that is what sells. Hell, if everyone keeps pushing a lil more, then a lil more afterthat, then just a tiny bit more after that you'll all be doing extras.
You're right, not all dancers are fortunate enough to have the opportunity to work in a club where they don't have to lapdances. You say that waitresses snear, "well at least I have my dignity" Well actually that's the same thing I say too. Yes, I do dance at an all nude club, but I'm not lowering myself to make $20/dance to rub up against some dudes cock all night.
[email protected] that.
If you continue to assume you are average, then you will be treated as average. I carry myself like a young lady, and I hold my head up high. Now, I'm not saying that I"m better than you, or that you're better than me. The fact remains that until dancers start taking some control over the way they perform as an individual, then their may be some progress.
You ladies are always bitching and complaining about the "good ol' days" when money was sooooooooooo good. And why is it bad now? Because of girls who are willing to do the extra mile to make that $$$. Do you think extras (hardcore grinding, kissing, licking HJ, BJ) started overnight? Hell no! It started with 1 dancer going just a little bit over the line of what was considered the norm. The it escalates...people see that she is making more, so they feel as if they need to do the same to keep an edge. THAT, is the problem. And until people wake up and start to realize this, you can't blame anyone, until you start to take a look at yourself. All it takes is one person.
doc-catfish
03-17-2006, 09:46 AM
I read through this thread and there's a question that comes to mind with this "lap" versus "air" debate.
What do you suppose old school strippers thought (and I mean really old school strippers from the era of stage only performances) when the dancing came off of the stage and girls started performing one-on-one dances (and I mean air dances) for customers? I mean, isn't that precisely the point where dancing became less of a show business and more of a service business? Wouldn't lap dances be the natural evolvement of that? (or devolvement if you wish to look at it that way).
If they had SW back then and they were discussing such a matter, I can only imagine what such a thread would look like.
onlythebest
03-17-2006, 10:13 AM
Thank y'all for your wonderful suggestions on how to give a fabulous air dance ::) Very helpful. Saying that grinding is an extra is extremely self righteous. Here I am one of those wicked horrible extras whores because I give contact lap dances and I'm asking for guidance and suggestions for giving lower contact dances and all y'all can do is bicker at each other. WTF! How is that helping anyone who really wants some suggestions? There is a huge difference between dry humping and the occasional 10 second grind in a lap dance. Yeah if you are literally dry humping a custy for the whole song that is just raunchy, tacky, and probably boring as hell for the custy unless they are a total PL. However if you throw in a quick 10 second grind at the end of the song and it sells the next dance whats wrong with that? OMG you're such a better person than me because you hover 5 inches above the guys pants when you're dancing. Do you guys know how ridiculous that sounds? Seriously think about it. Like greenlady said we're all strippers... so she with out sin casts the first stone. So why don't some of you perfect angels share some tips for a more heavenly lap dance instead of bashing the hell out of the rest of us?
Anyone can "throw in" a quick 10 second grind and sell more dances but it takes a woman with real talent to sell more dances.This is the same mentality as the girls who find nothing wrong shoving their naked vaginas in the cuctomers' faces.Anyone can do those things to get attention.
sexysweet
03-17-2006, 10:58 AM
Taken from http://www.musicals101.com/burlesque.htm
The strippers soon dominated burlesque, and their routines became increasingly graphic. To avoid total nudity but still give the audience what it wanted, the ladies covered their groins with flimsy G-strings and used "pasties" to cover their nipples. This was usually enough to keep the cops at bay, even though pasties were far more vulgar that a plain naked breast.
Taken from:Strippers Are Us
The sexual naiveté of Pretty Things, HBO's new documentary on burlesque.
By Rachel Shteir
Posted Tuesday, July 19, 2005, at 8:10 AM ET
Burlesque was no Broadway: Men masturbated under newspapers, sometimes to the rhythm of whatever the orchestra was playing, as Lois de Fee recounts. The women lived through raids, botched plastic surgery, nervous breakdowns, abusive bosses, jail time, fires, and stage-door Johnnies.
It doesnt look like stripping has changed all that much to me!
MonicaF
03-17-2006, 12:52 PM
Well, in hard core south florida you can do what you want for the most part. I use the almighty dollar as my "affection" gage.