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Optimist
03-29-2006, 11:38 PM
I just came home from a trip to a second-tier Manhattan gown club. One of the golden rules of retail is not to have too much inventory - in other words, don't give your customers too many choices, or they won't spend. Most of them were sitting there, not buying dances, not tipping at the stage, nursing a Corona, and generally looking like dickless fools.
I can't see why that old mid-nineties model hasn't been retired. The customers aren't awed by our sheer numbers anymore. They seem intimidated and irritated and complacent to lollygag all night because they think they have an advantage over us. Some guys ask me if it worries me to compete against 100+ girls. That's how they see it.

lildreamer316
03-30-2006, 01:06 AM
I can't see why that old mid-nineties model hasn't been retired. The customers aren't awed by our sheer numbers anymore. They seem intimidated and irritated and complacent to lollygag all night because they think they have an advantage over us. Some guys ask me if it worries me to compete against 100+ girls. That's how they see it.

Because the tip-out from 100+ girls is a major part of their income. Until they can find some other way of compensating for that; or until they realize how that will eventually COST them money; that won't change. But I think eventually, under my model; they'll have to to keep their act cleaner.

Djoser
03-30-2006, 01:38 AM
Well, you could find no better example of the negative consequences of management trying to get as much money from house fees, than to come visit the club I am working in now.

Anything with breasts that walks in the door is hired, regardless of the stampede away from the stage when they go up there. The kind of customers that don't care what the stage show looks like, but what their gonna get in VIP, then proliferate, meaning even less earnings for women who actually do look good up there. The better looking dancers, who actually know how to dance, tend to be pissed off all the time it seems.

The fact that I am outta there ASAP doesn't change the fact that such clubs are hurting the industry.

I'm not advocating really picky hiring standards, just some consideration of aesthetics, for chrissakes...

I have mixed feelings about the Vu chain, mostly due to seeing how high their take is from each lapdance. Even if the dancers make a lot of money regardless, it seems like excessive greed, and close to robbery. I lived with a woman who tried one for a few months and hated it, even if she made more than the clubs she worked before and after there. In this club they also had way too many 'specials', I forget what they were--2 for 1's, probably.

The commodification of dancers is a high price to pay for a cleaner club.

Not to knock those who like working in the Vu chain, far from it--I just wonder how much more they would make if the percentage was more reasonable.

It seems there is no easy solution to the problem.

GnBeret
04-03-2006, 01:18 AM
From what I can see, after what once (and not too long ago, i.e., circa 2001-2003) appeared to be a fundamental and irreversable change in the basic nature of the business, the industry is currently in the process of of rebuilding itself into what will amount to a bifurcated system, to wit: (1) a limited, albeit significant portion (15%-20%... at most 25%) of the clubs being owned and operated by large, corporate entities that specialize in "entertainment," ala Park Place Entertainment, Hilton, etc.'s takeover and overhaul of legalized gambling in general, and Vegas in particular; and (2) a vast majority (80%-85%) of the clubs being owned by independent and/or drastically smaller, privately held entities that will relentlessly continue to pursue the process of remaking the industry in the image of Houston... nationwide - and who'll effectively succeed in doing so within the time span of no more than a decade or so from now.

In my view (and, for a variety of reasons which are of no moment for purposes of this discussion), a rather abrupt and radical change occurred in the basic business model of the industry as a whole circa 1995-2000, by the end of which both the industry's own views of what it was that it was offering/selling and the vast majority of the consumer's views/expectations of what it was that they ought to be able to demand/purchase had undergone a fundamental and, for the most part, irreversable change in perception. And, at least up until the very recent past (i.e., late 2004-2005), it appeared as though that shift might even be of all-consuming proportions. However, from almost the very beginning of the shift (i.e., mid-90's), there has been an ever-increasing objection to the shift coming from two distinct, but at least tangentially related groups of former/potential-future customers who, in the end, apparently have enough buying power to force the bufurcation or "corporate-20%/independent-80% split" that I tend to believe will soon emerge.

First, there are the professional service providers and, to a lesser extent, their clients - who are effectively the business/corporate middle and upper level management people (80%-90% of whom are still men) that determine who will get what in the way of professional service contracts, i.e, which lawyers, accountants, etc., will get their business. Prior to the shift, at least 50%, and more often than not, a good 75%+ of the total $$ amounts spent on "business development," "client entertainment," etc. - ESPECIALLY if the client/potential client was from elsewhere - were dropped in "upper-echelon" type clubs (which, here in Houston, usually meant Treasures, ESPECIALLY with out-of-town clients, 'cause regardless of where they're from they'd usually heard of/about it already and wanted to see/experience it for themselves). To make an already long story shorter (sorry!), we would all get drunk on top shelf liquor while DDG girls lit the guy up like a Xmas tree without her or anyone else ever expecting or, for that matter, seriously suggesting - much less actually doing "extras" of any kind... with the net result being: he was thoroughly "entertained," happy, and was going back to "wherever" with great stories to tell his pals that were nevertheless still within the bounds of "acceptable" if they got to the wrong people in his company, the firm had scored big with him while still remaining within the bounds of being "acceptable people to do business with" if wrong people in company heard anything about it, and the firm's Amex took anywhere from a $1,500 - $4,000 hit at the end of the night. Fast forward to now: For the most part, just doesn't happen anymore 'cause we can't risk it, ESPECIALLY with guys from out of town that are only known professionally, i.e., no idea re religious, political, etc., beliefs. Why? Because in current environment client may not even make it to the table before a girl throws her arm around his neck and pastes her body to his while she reaches down between them, grabs his crotch and whispers "blowjob, $100... interested sweetie?" in his ear! Too much!!! This is supposed to be "entertainment," the likes of which he's never seen/can't experience in 'wherever"... not "let's take him to a cathouse," 'cause he may well not want that or, worse, have serious moral/religious, etc., problems with it, we're all uncomfortable with it 'cause we generally don't know each other that well, and we definitely don't want that kind of story circulating around as it will invariably reach someone, somewhere in his company that has both problems with it and the horsepower to do something about it - like "blacklist" the firm.

Second, there's the "older" crowd, largely composed of same guys, who view the clubs in much the same way as they view casinos, i.e., expensive, upscale, and very enjoyable "entertainment," but that's all. In other words, they're not looking for anything more, they're not particularly comfortable with the wide-open way things are now and, along the same lines, they're not particularly comfortable with the much of the crowd that's come with the shift in the business.

And, from what I can see, the large entertainment corporations have come to recognize all of the above and are in the process of acquiring the clubs that'll cater to that market, i.e., the %20.

As for the remainder of the industry, IMHO it's only going to get worse in most of the markets around the country - 'cause regardless of where you are and/or how far you may think it's already gone there, unless you've seen Houston you have no idea of how much further it's going go where you are... from what I can see, Houston is the future nationwide (at least in the big cities), and it's coming within the next decade.

miabella
04-03-2006, 01:57 AM
it is worth noting that in houston, the chain clubs are home to some of the most aggressive extras hustlers. which i think is the problem. houston had a couple of upscale-style clubs that were non-extras, but even they have been overrun with undercutters (effectively). contact just rachets up and up and up, as SC noted is the case even in the tony NYC showclubs. i think that contact levels will become high as a rule (though masked/limited to vip rooms in the showclubs), and that showclubs and/or corporate clubs will take up 30-40 percent of the market.

as paris noted, i suspect there will be a sizable (maybe as much as 20 percent of the current stripclub customer base) 'alternative entertainment' set of venues for burlesque and whatnot. and that may end up the only consistently low or no contact area of naked dancing left to many dancers. and it's not as lucrative or regular in terms of work availability.

i think american stripping is pretty much going to turn into mexico, with even the showclubs having anything on sale and business types ending up maybe in the mixed-sex venues that currently support alternative striptease.

but who knows, maybe some of the corporate chains will reduce contact and extras by turning the dancers into employees and paying enough of a wage that girls will come in and hang out and just rely on stage tips/tipwalks as such.