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Hopper
08-22-2011, 04:28 AM
^ I love it when you talk economics.

bem401
08-22-2011, 06:57 AM
You are still missing the point.

I know about supply and demand and discretionary spending. I also understand consumer behavior, and specifically consumer behavior as it applies to stripclub customers. The biggest problem you RI folks had with the 2004 price hike was that all the extra went to the club instead of the girls - we know this because you all say it over and over like a mantra. I will say that same price hike wouldn't have had NEARLY the negative effect on the club if the extra money had gone to the GIRLS. It might've caused some guys to slow down or go to other clubs, but you wouldn't have seen the mass exodus that occurred because the club got greedy. You might've seen some girls leave because they couldn't sell, but those who had a clue would've loved it because they'd have made MORE money.

The reason lapdance prices have largely remained the same over the last 20 years is not because customers can't afford it. If the prices fluctuated based strictly on macroeconomic factors, they would have gone up and down over the last 20 years or so, rather than pretty much staying the same. But it's NOT based on the economy.

Dance prices remain the same because stripclub owners and managers aren't the brightest bulbs in the box when it comes to running a business - oh hell let's just be honest - they're a bunch of fucking brain-dead morons. Also because most strippers aren't really all that experienced either and they often do things ass-backwards. There is also the emotional element with customers who simply dislike having to pay or even view it as a real business because it hurts their lil egos - and please don't try to claim otherwise; you all wouldn't be here if there weren't an emotional element!

Any club that does 2for1s is run by clueless idiots who don't know how to sell, and/or by number-crunching bean-counters who will step over a dollar to save a dime, because again they don't understand how to MAKE money. These idiots have no idea about the concept of product value, especially devaluing your product vs maintaining or making it MORE valuable.

Still, all of this is beside the point. Dance prices can't realistically go down on a broad level. They ARE down. $20 now is worth about half what it was 20 years ago. That means the effective price of a dance is down by about half, while the costs of doing business for strippers has gone up.

Any customers who try to demand lower prices need to check themselves. As Hopper managed to see, you get what you pay for and if you think you need to pay less, you are likely to GET less. Why do you guys think stripper quality has decreased over the years? Why do you think so many more girls show up looking like they just rolled out of bed and made little or no effort to look good? Why do you think so many have such shit attitudes??? Couldn't be because they're not making enough to make it worth their while, could it? Or just because so many guys want to treat them like blow-up dolls and pay them squat?

As I said, most strippers aren't that experienced and will do things ass-backwards, like react to lower customer spending by making less effort, but you guys are contributing to the problem by trying to demand so much for so little.

I was always the type to charge MORE, not less, because I know wtf I'm doing :P

Well, we are entitled to different opinions but let me point out that we are talking about the most discretionary of spending for the overwhelming majority of customers and the majority of them are only concerned with what they are getting for their money, not who is pocketing what. For most customers, what they spend is what they can afford to spare. I'm talking about the foot traffic here or the guy trying to decide whether to show up at all. Guys dedicated to specific dancers would be willing to "suck it up" and pay the extra despite being unhappy about it. If the fact the dance cost $5 more dissuaded him from doing dances with the girl, he mustn't have been all that dedicated to begin with.

Pertaining strictly to the price increase occurrence at the club in question, I would argue that customers resented the price increase period and the fact that it was going strictly to the club gave the dancer and customer a common enemy so the customer "saying it over and over like a mantra" is just allowing him to blame a third party for a decision he would have made anyway. On top of this, I do not know how familiar you are with RI, but the SC market here must be at least as competitive as that in any comparable area. There are 4 or 5 very large clubs, all within a few miles of each other. Customers with no specific reason to visit a certain club will likely choose to visit a club where they feel they are getting the most for their money without sacrificing dancer quality. The perception of "getting a deal" goes a long way around here because of the competition between clubs.

As far as demanding lower prices is concerned, the customer ought to pay the going rate plus a tip if applicable. I always paid the quoted price with any girl I danced with and never once haggled over prices, though my first fav tried to sell me hour long CR's when she moved to a club that had them but informed me she got $100 more than standard. I decided I was not about to pay a premium so she never sold me one, though I'll admit she was being replaced as a fave at the time, but I doubt I'd have paid that premium to anybody. Tipping an extra chunk like that was possible but I wouldn't agree to overpay up front.

Finally. according to supply and demand, its rather simple. The price is what the market will bear. Dance prices have not gone up for a number of reasons. First, there's competition. Second, there's the bad economy. Third, LD's are not the novelty they were several years ago. Neither are SC's, which were blossoming a decade or so ago and now seem to have just gotten old.

I wish any dancer the best of luck in trying to make the maximum at the job but I just don't believe increasing the price of an LD and attributing that to inflation will necessarily improve her bottom line in the long run and her bottom line is of little concern to club owners and the majority of customers.

yoda57us
08-22-2011, 11:19 AM
The biggest problem you RI folks had with the 2004 price hike was that all the extra went to the club instead of the girls - we know this because you all say it over and over like a mantra.

Speaking only for myself, the only reason that this gets mentioned as part of the discussion is because it is what the dancers in that club complained about. Three years prior to this little failed experiment the dance price was raised from $20 to $25 and the dancers got the increase. There was definitely some push-back from the customer base but the economy was good, the club had just relocated to a brand new building with a great new LD area so there was not a huge drop-off in business. Still, every other club in Providence was still at $20 a dance back then so there was some customer migration.

A few years later when business had slowed down a bit they raised it to $30 solely to put another five bucks per dance in their pocket. The logic was simple. Even if guys bought fewer dances the club would still make more money. The idiots in management didn't account for the fact that LD purchases would drop to about half of what they had been for many girls and dancers would just go to other clubs...in droves!


I will say that same price hike wouldn't have had NEARLY the negative effect on the club if the extra money had gone to the GIRLS.

Well, hindsight is 20/20 for me since I saw it all go down but there is really no way to know this. The fact is the average strip club customer doesn't really know that part of the money for a dance goes to the club. To most guys, $30 i $30 regardless of how it is divided-up. A relatively small amount of men read these sites and talk, ad nausea, about the minutia of what goes on in a club. In other words, I tend not to agree with you simply because I don't think most guys really know or care how the money is distributed. They hand it to the dancer and it's gone. That's all they know. Most guys don't know that dancers don't get paid by the club. The idiots who sit at the bar all day and don't tip or buy dances could care less that a dancer actually has to pay to come in and work her shift. It's alien to the way most other businesses work...

Hopper
08-22-2011, 08:31 PM
Where I am, LD prices have gone up a lot over the past 15 years, the number of clubs has almost doubled, the number of customers in each is about the same and business seems to be about as good. This may be something to do with all of these clubs having high contact LDs. I would say it's also to do with SCs having crossed over more into mainstream acceptance and popularity in that time.

Davey17
08-23-2011, 07:15 AM
From what I gather the general consensus is:

Cheaper dances, hotter girls, and less pressure.

TRANSLATED TO -

The most action for the least money possible.

.................................................. .................................................. ..

So basically the same thing any customer at any business wants. The problem with that being in our industry that the dancers are all private contractors and thusly are hurt directly by free shows and cheap dances.


In tight ecconomic times the money will only flow to those who deserve it , both Clubs and Dancers . There are well and truly enough " Great " dancers out there ...these girls are truly professional love their work and will continue to make great money .
Same goes for Clubs .

Supply and Demand curve is as per any indudtry , the market will dictate . But as I said , so many awesome dancers out there ...Guys , just be selective and let that value flow .

DigitalDemon
09-02-2011, 07:05 AM
I would also love to be able to hear heavy metal in the clubs. Is this a huge no no for some clubs? Whenever I ask DJs to play it they say they cant.

chris91
09-08-2011, 11:05 AM
Yesterday a dancer and I we heading back for a nice long session in VIP when a floater stopped us half way there and told her to turn around - that she was onstage next. I was livid. How ridiculous is that? Great decision, management......now she can collect $10 in stage tips versus the $300 I was planning on spending on her in VIP. As she was angrily heading to the DR, I told her that I was leaving, handed her $20 and told the bartender to get the manager. The manager sympathized and said it was standard procedure. I reiterated to him that he had just lost his cut of VIP $$$, to which his eyes bulged and he promised me that he would address it with his staff so that it wouldn't happen again. It was like the money-meter finally went on in his head.

Good lord.

This is the stupid kind of shit that needs to STOP! >:(

This happened to me all the time at my old club. It makes absolutely no sense, and it was one of the many reasons I left.

yoda57us
09-08-2011, 11:18 AM
Yesterday a dancer and I we heading back for a nice long session in VIP when a floater stopped us half way there and told her to turn around - that she was onstage next.

A fav of mine works at a club the just started charging a per-dance fee last year. It's amazing how management's attitude towards stage sets has changed! Previously the dancers had to LEAVE the private dance area if they got called to the stage. Quite often this meant losing out on dances since many guys won't wait for her to come back, they will either find another dancer or leave. The stage Nazi attitude is long gone now since the owner is making five bucks on every dance sold. Lol, the DJ's sometimes have to call three or four girl's names before someone is available to go dance on stage but NO ONE gets intereupted in the PD area anymore!

bem401
09-08-2011, 01:07 PM
A fav of mine works at a club the just started charging a per-dance fee last year. It's amazing how management's attitude towards stage sets has changed! Previously the dancers had to LEAVE the private dance area if they got called to the stage. Quite often this meant losing out on dances since many guys won't wait for her to come back, they will either find another dancer or leave. The stage Nazi attitude is long gone now since the owner is making five bucks on every dance sold. Lol, the DJ's sometimes have to call three or four girl's names before someone is available to go dance on stage but NO ONE gets intereupted in the PD area anymore!

I'm sure you did the same thing I used to do in my club of choice when buying dances. My 15 minute booths generally all began 2 or 3 minutes before the girl would be called to the stage so they would always start at 12, 27, 42,or 57 past the hour (club time).

yoda57us
09-08-2011, 01:17 PM
^ Unfortunately as the dancer population in that club decreased the sets got longer so it was tougher to dodge the sets. One night years ago the @#&% house mother actually pulled a dancer out of the booth with me to send her on stage...

Avoiding the stage, if that's the game, can be as simple as taking good care of the DJ and/or house mother. Several months ago I was at CF tipping my fav on stage and the house mom came over in disbelief. She hadn't seen this particular lady on stage in so long she didn't think she remembered how to get there!

If you're having a slow night it's good to get on stage. It seems that fewer dancers feel that way now than years ago...

bem401
09-08-2011, 01:25 PM
^^^plus I think they stopped having all the girls do a 15 minute set every hour like they used to.

Years ago, one of my faves there got pulled out of a booth to cover the stage and instead went to the dressing room, got her bag, and left. Contacted me that night and asked about introducing her across town. Two days later, she started a year-long run as probably the biggest earner there.

None of my faves liked the stage but maybe they just wanted me to feel obligated to relieve them from the stage set by buying a booth.

knightwish
10-27-2011, 04:09 AM
Some things I could do without:

Very loud music: Why do some clubs make it impossible to talk or even think over the music? I have never understood how this helps a club. Not only does it limit some guys' enjoyment of the club but the girls have a harder time hustling if guys can't hear what they are saying.

Dancer drink prices: Now I don't mind buying drinks, or even paying a bit extra so that the dancer can get a cut, but in places like downtown Boston or the Block in Baltimore this practice is really over the top. What's worse, though, is that in some instances the girl makes very little off of it. I have no problem tipping for time, but this practice just completely changes the interpersonal dynamic as the dancers are under constant pressure to sell more drinks. I now tend to avoid clubs that do this.

Mandatory coat checks: My problem is not throwing out a few bucks for a tip, but I dislike having to stop by a counter and wait for my coat before leaving. This also forces me to carry keys and other personal items in my pockets as I am not going to leave them with some counter girl.

Cell phone restrictions: Nobody is getting my cell phone, period. Nor do I intend to leave it in my car. It is a Blackberry and I have a ton of sensitive data on it. If I cannot keep my phone on my person then I will not go into the club.

Shot girls: It has been over a decade since I bought a shot from a shot girl, and the last time I did was because it came with a lapdance from the very hot girl selling the shot. The so called "shots" are usually nothing more than sugary crap that I have no interest in drinking.

Dance tickets: I have never enjoyed having to go to a bartender to buy a ticket before going to the back. This practice is common in some Connecticut and Rhode Island clubs and it annoys me every single time. Now at least I do not have to buy a ticket for each dance - that would be a deal breaker - but even still...

Valet parking: Seriously? IME 90% of clubs that have valet parking have no real functional reason for it as they have open lots readily available. All this does is complicate the process of leaving the club. I work very hard to circumvent valets whenever possible. Dallas is a great example of a place where some clubs enforce mandatory valet, yet there is ample space to park all around these clubs.

I could go on, but this is a starter list of my clubbing pet peeves.

I know this is old, but I figured it is worth a laugh. I'm reading your list and 1/2 those things I like.

Loud music -- depends on the club if the focus is going to be on the stage its fine. Otherwise it is annoying quickly. The plus is though this often forces the dancers to get very physical to be seductive.

Coat and cell check -- absolutely great. I always leave my cell in the car. But cell phones are a distraction for everyone.

Shot girls -- You mean like the strip club jello shots where the girl blows them into your mouth or visa versa? That's kinda fun.

Valet parking -- I agree. It makes no sense unless the club doesn't have its own lot. It may be a security thing though, they are getting the customers to fund the parking lot security.