View Full Version : Is Lap Dancing Prostitution?
Wwanderer
04-06-2006, 08:23 AM
I dislike all politicians
I'll drink to that!
-Ww
tampadancer
04-06-2006, 08:29 AM
DJ,
I was not personally offended by your comment :) No worries. I was just trying to inspire some thought in those who tend to irrationally create scapegoats. You're right, nobody is ever always right (except, perhaps, me... ;D kidding, I'M KIDDING!!). But there are non-religious liberals that will be just as quick to judge those in the adult industry as their religious, conservative counterparts. The need to categorize people is just something that I find annoying, to be honest. It's like saying "all dogs are brown."
tampadancer
04-06-2006, 08:31 AM
And thank you for the interesting exchange...and for demonstrating that it is possible to disagree about a controversial topic on SW without the conversation turning mean spirited. Also, for my part, I do see it as a topic on which there are legit pros and cons on both sides...an issue about which reasonable people can disagree in other words. It is pretty complicated, and even if/where it is legalized, there are still a lot of "judgement call" type questions about how it should be regulated, licensed etc.
I feel like we should go have a beer now. heh :)
yoda57us
04-06-2006, 08:39 AM
I don't honestly think the religious right has nearly as much power as they think they do. The real emeny is often the lack of information that the general public has about a given topic. Many of us here have first hand experience about some or all of the issues we are discussing. The information that the public gets about any aspect of the sex industry is slanted to fit the agenda of whatever media source is dispensing it...and lets face it, they all have agendas.
Djoser
04-06-2006, 08:44 AM
Yes, a beer would be great, lol--and more often than not sitting down with someone you disagree with and having one can really help you to see that politcs doesn't always have to interfere with friendship.
Thats why I'm glad PP was closed, I think my outspoken nature has offended a few members there, and I have no doubt been needlessly offended myself.
I'm glad you understand where I'm coming from, TD...
Wwanderer
04-06-2006, 08:47 AM
OK, more on topic...and not just to make FBR happy:
An upscale escort, an educated and sophisticated lady imo, once explained something to me that may illuminate the difference between prostitution and lap dancing in a novel (to me, at least) way. For one of our "dates" I asked her if she would be willing to strip to music for me and then give me a lap dance that would gradually progress to FS sex. She said that she would if I really wanted because I was a good customer but that she would prefer not to do it because she thought it would make her feel embarrassed, humiliated and "cheap". I immediately withdrew the request, of course. (Wise customers of both escorts and dancers do not press for more than the lady is comfortable doing; it very rarely leads to a good time, to say nothing of being inconsiderate and rude.) However, I questioned her a bit about her feelings because it initially struck me as odd that she would feel that way about stripping and lap dancing when she is perfectly happy to provide a wide list of uninhibited sexual services, certainly all the common accronyms, with no apparent discomfort. Her explanation seemed interesting and perceptive to me:
Basically she said that the things she does with her customers are mostly things that "all normal women do with men anyway". She acknowledged that doing them for money and with strangers is different, but to her they are relatively small differences and ones she finds easy to disregard and temporarily forget. By contrast, she felt that stripping, especially on-stage, and lap dancing were activities that the vast majority of women don't and wouldn't ever do in their whole lives. She said that she didn't believe that she could ever be comfortable behaving the way a dancer does.
Personally, I wouldn't go as far as saying that I think she is "right", whatever that would mean in this context, but I do think I see where she is coming from and some validity to it.
Does anyone here see the difference between prostitution and lap dancing along those lines at all?
-Ww
Wwanderer
04-06-2006, 08:57 AM
I feel like we should go have a beer now. heh :)
Yes, a beer would be great, lol--
That would indeed be nice, and maybe it is the fact that I just spent some time in the Middle East, where there are countries in which it would be illegal for us to have that beer...or to have one in public with a woman who is not a family member, that makes me even more skeptical than usual about the idea of the government protecting us from ourselves.
-Ww
Djoser
04-06-2006, 09:24 AM
We can sure all agree that's out of line, Ww...
FBR and JZ, I just went and edited the hell out of that last post. It seemed a bit Pooish--even if I was lamenting the problems arising from the dreaded Poo, lol.
trainfinder22
04-06-2006, 02:05 PM
there's that too, but if you can snag a sugar daddy, you are supposed to have sex with him (and only him)
Um thats not protitution thats just a relationship and by the way
I have heard and talked many of a 19-22 year old american men who have realtionships with 40 year old women and have them buy them stuff...
trainfinder22
04-06-2006, 02:10 PM
OK, more on topic...and not just to make FBR happy:
An upscale escort, an educated and sophisticated lady imo, once explained something to me that may illuminate the difference between prostitution and lap dancing in a novel (to me, at least) way. For one of our "dates" I asked her if she would be willing to strip to music for me and then give me a lap dance that would gradually progress to FS sex. She said that she would if I really wanted because I was a good customer but that she would prefer not to do it because she thought it would make her feel embarrassed, humiliated and "cheap". I immediately withdrew the request, of course. (Wise customers of both escorts and dancers do not press for more than the lady is comfortable doing; it very rarely leads to a good time, to say nothing of being inconsiderate and rude.) However, I questioned her a bit about her feelings because it initially struck me as odd that she would feel that way about stripping and lap dancing when she is perfectly happy to provide a wide list of uninhibited sexual services, certainly all the common accronyms, with no apparent discomfort. Her explanation seemed interesting and perceptive to me:
Basically she said that the things she does with her customers are mostly things that "all normal women do with men anyway". She acknowledged that doing them for money and with strangers is different, but to her they are relatively small differences and ones she finds easy to disregard and temporarily forget. By contrast, she felt that stripping, especially on-stage, and lap dancing were activities that the vast majority of women don't and wouldn't ever do in their whole lives. She said that she didn't believe that she could ever be comfortable behaving the way a dancer does.
Personally, I wouldn't go as far as saying that I think she is "right", whatever that would mean in this context, but I do think I see where she is coming from and some validity to it.
Does anyone here see the difference between prostitution and lap dancing along those lines at all?
-Ww
Having sex with complete strangers that you have no sexual intrest in and dont find atractive even phiscaly does not seem normal to me...
Emily
04-06-2006, 02:19 PM
Um thats not protitution thats just a relationship and by the way
I have heard and talked many of a 19-22 year old american men who have realtionships with 40 year old women and have them buy them stuff...
no, it's still prostitution, even if you know people who do it. You also took my comment out of context. It was in regard to a geisha...and geishas are required to give part of their earnings to the house. And it's for MONEY. How is this not prostitution?
Wwanderer
04-06-2006, 03:22 PM
Having sex with complete strangers that you have no sexual intrest in and dont find atractive even phiscaly does not seem normal to me...
I can't really speak for her of course, but I believe that the lady in question would agree with you that the aspect of prostitution you describe is not "normal", at least in the narrow technical sense of "normal", i.e., something most people do. Her point, I believe, was that at least the physical act itself, having sex with an individual man, is "normal", again in the sense that they are physical acts in which most people do engage. By contrast, she saw exotic dancing as "normal" in no sense at all because most women never dance erotically in the nude or semi-nude and in public for groups of men, nor do they do anything resembling lap dances for individual men.
Again, to be clear, I am not saying that this makes prostitution "better" than exotic dancing in any sense, but I could see why she might be more comfortable in one profession than she would be (or thought she would be) in the other.
-Ww
Yekhefah
04-06-2006, 03:30 PM
I would actually say that it's quite normal, from a biological standpoint, for a woman to have sex with a man she doesn't find attractive in order to gain some other way. Remember that it's still a relatively new idea for women to choose our mates at all, and an even newer idea that we should do it purely for sexual and/or emotional satisfaction. Generally throughout history, women have had sex with particular males because they are required to, or because they wanted the support he could provide, or for some other non-sexual reason.
And then consider that prostitution is as old as human history, and quite common throughout almost every human population... yeah, I'd say it's normal, and that we women who have been taught to be repulsed by it are actually the abnormal ones.
tampadancer
04-06-2006, 03:34 PM
I would actually say that it's quite normal, from a biological standpoint, for a woman to have sex with a man she doesn't find attractive
LOL Yek!! You know, I will admit.. I've had sex with men that I didn't necessarily find physically attractive (but their minds were super hot;) )
I see your point though
Wwanderer
04-06-2006, 07:22 PM
I would actually say that it's quite normal, from a biological standpoint, for a woman to have sex with a man she doesn't find attractive...
Yeah, but if you are going to have sex with someone you don't find attractive, why not do it with your spouse? :D ;)
-Ww
FBR and JZ, I just went and edited the hell out of that last post. It seemed a bit Pooish--even if I was lamenting the problems arising from the dreaded Poo, lol.
Thanks DJ :)
FBR
Yekhefah
04-06-2006, 07:32 PM
Personally, if I'm going to sell sex, I'd rather not have to live with the guy on top of it. At least the prostitute retains her independence. I stayed in an unhappy marriage in exchange for a higher standard of living, and it was pig-effing-awful even though he is a wonderful man. I could never be a prostitute, but it makes perfect sense for those women who are fine with it.
sexysweet
04-07-2006, 06:43 AM
Posted bt Yekhefah:
"Remember that it's still a relatively new idea for women to choose our mates at all, and an even newer idea that we should do it purely for sexual and/or emotional satisfaction."
How true! The following is a little off topic but I thought it fit with your above post.
Pay attention ladies !!!! Oh how times have changed
This is an actual extract from a sex education school text book for girls, printed in the early 60's in the UK, written by a woman!
"When retiring to the bedroom, prepare yourself for bed as promptly as possible. Whilst feminine hygiene is of the utmost importance, your tired husband does not want to queue for the bathroom, as he would have to do for his train. But remember to look your best when going to bed. Try to achieve a look that is welcoming without being obvious. If you need to apply face-cream or hair-rollers wait until he is asleep as this canbe shocking to a man last thing at night.
When it comes to the possibility of intimate relations with your husband it is important to remember your marriage vows and in particular your commitment to obey him.
If he feels that he needs to sleep immediately then so be it. In all things be led by your husband's wishes; do not pressure him in any way to stimulate intimacy. Should your husband suggest congress then agree humbly all the while being mindful that a man's satisfaction is more important than a woman's. :O When he reaches his moment of fulfilment a small moan from yourself is encouraging to him and quite sufficient to indicate any enjoyment that you may have had.
Should your husband suggest any of the more unusual practices be obedient and uncomplaining but register any reluctance by remaining silent.
It is likely that your husband will then fall promptly asleep so adjust your clothing, freshen up and apply your night-time face and hair care products.
You may then set the alarm so that you can arise shortly before him in the morning. This will enable you to have his morning cup of tea ready when he awakes"
yoda57us
04-07-2006, 06:52 AM
LOL Yek!! You know, I will admit.. I've had sex with men that I didn't necessarily find physically attractive (but their minds were super hot;) )
Thank God for women who think this way, otherwise I'd NEVER get any....
Yekhefah
04-07-2006, 01:20 PM
Sexysweet, unfortunately they don't seem to have changed quite as much as we could hope.
threlayer
04-08-2006, 09:47 PM
People get into lifelong habits. I do not believe the young people of today follow those .rules'.
KittenCaboodle
10-31-2006, 11:30 PM
So if your lapdancing a guy and after he runs to the mens room to "finish off" is that prostitution??
greentea
10-31-2006, 11:58 PM
Lap dancing DOES NOT involve "grinding a guy to completion." Seriously.. gross.
If a girl IS grinding to completion, she is a prostitute, not a dancer. That's called dry sex.
And what's with these asanine questions lately, anyways?
I dunno,even if the guy creams his pants I wouldnt call it prostitution.I mean come on,prostitution involves sex,there is no bodily fluid exchanged or penetration with a lap dance,ahrdly constitutes "sex" in my opinion.
Bridgette
11-01-2006, 01:24 AM
In some areas, lap dancing is LEGALLY considered prostitution. Personally I only call it prostitution if there's direct genital contact - either genital-oral, genital-hand or genital-genital, etc. I guess if a girl is purposely grinding a guy to orgasm, that would be prostitution as well. But just lap dancing, with no intention of getting the guy off - nah.
Madcap
11-01-2006, 02:30 AM
So a girl sending me home blue and painfull is a hooker? Sorry, don't buy it.
Melonie
11-01-2006, 04:14 AM
^^^ all I can say is that you should read some of the actual wordings of state prostitution laws. Most make no distinction about clothing being present re contact with a 'sexual area' of the body. Most make no distinction re 'mutual' contact. Some don't even make a distinction that the person paying the money also having to be involved in 'sexual contact'.
For example, if a guy is tipping at the rail, if two dancers are on stage together, and if one dancer touches the other dancer's breast, under Texas state prostitution law this has all of the technical requirements for a prostitution charge to stick ... money being paid ... contact being made with a 'sexual area' of the body in exchange for that money being paid.
slowpoke
11-01-2006, 09:10 AM
If you draft your post as a word document you can select Format >Change Case>Title Case.
Pretty_Penny
11-01-2006, 02:29 PM
Prostitution:
1. The act or practice of engaging in sex acts for hire.
2. The act or an instance of offering or devoting one's talent to an unworthy use or cause.
the first depends on your definition of "sex acts"... the second is something that most everyone does at one point or another.
my own personal opinion is that -yes- we are prostitutes. even if there is no contact, you are dancing sexually either nude or mostly nude for the purpose of sexual arousal in exchange for money. prositute can mean anything from that to a crack whore on the street. the problem is with the negative immediate reaction people have to the WORD "prostitute". it is, after all, just a word. it's a word that is losely defined. it's the same debate as "what defines sex"? is oral sex "sex"? does sex have to involve penetration?. what about porn? does nudity = pornography? what if the pose is "sexual"? what defines "sexual"? does more than one person have to be involved?
you can go on and on and get a million different answers from people. what really matters in the end is what -you- think and how -you- feel about it.
virgoamm
11-01-2006, 02:38 PM
Courtesy of Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: lap dancing
Function: noun
: an activity in which a usually seminude performer sits and gyrates on the lap of a customer
Main Entry: pros·ti·tu·tion
Pronunciation: "präs-t&-'tü-sh&n, -'tyü-
Function: noun
1 : the act or practice of engaging in promiscuous sexual relations especially for money
2 : the state of being prostituted : DEBASEMENT
sassfire
11-01-2006, 03:53 PM
Well casual dating is a form of prostitution. The guy picks the girl up, takes her out to dinner and movie (a monetary value of about $50). The women will usually pay him back by giving him sex. If she doesn't sleep with him that night she will on the 2nd or 3rd night. I mean how many women (not just strippers) actually take a man they have only dated for 2 or 3 dates out for dinner and movie?
Docido
11-01-2006, 04:07 PM
We can debate the semantics forever. The bottom line is prostitution is whatever the state legislature says it is. Some areas have a set limit between dancer and customer. If you are caught closer than the law allows, then you liable to a prostitution charge. I now have this absurd mental picture of local law enforcement storming into a club armed with warrants and tape measures.
These laws are usually ignored, except at election time.
pedosmustdie
11-04-2006, 06:14 PM
Exactly, Can we have a new area called "Stupid Questions"?
Oh, I didn't hear it was called dry sex. I heard it called a "Happy Finish"}:D
Although in high school it was called dry humping. I wonder if it goes with a dry merlot. Sure has been dry around here.
There's no such thing as a stupid question. There are only stupid answers.
:P
sassfire
11-04-2006, 07:43 PM
we're all prostitutes in some way
I'm not talking about dancers, but anyone that works for a living.
Here's something a little bit deeper. Night clubs are brothels and dating is a form of prostitution.
sassfire
11-04-2006, 08:01 PM
Well what if the woman had no intention of having sex with you. I'm not talking about your female buddies, I'm talking about women you are dating. How long are you going to keep taking her out and spending money on her, without her even giving you a little bit of "something something"? Most likely not that long, you will quickly find someone who will. Of couse a man will tell her that "you and I are just not compatible". Which translates to, "You aren't a good host to my buddy living in the south pole".
gameover
11-04-2006, 08:09 PM
essentially, a lap dance is dry humping. i'm not judging--I like it :), but let's not kid ourselves
greentea
11-04-2006, 09:30 PM
essentially, a lap dance is dry humping. i'm not judging--I like it :), but let's not kid ourselves
Thats true,its dry sex.
laplover69
11-05-2006, 04:38 AM
Well what if the woman had no intention of having sex with you. I'm not talking about your female buddies, I'm talking about women you are dating. How long are you going to keep taking her out and spending money on her, without her even giving you a little bit of "something something"? Most likely not that long, you will quickly find someone who will. Of couse a man will tell her that "you and I are just not compatible". Which translates to, "You aren't a good host to my buddy living in the south pole".
Sure some men won't tolerate a women who doesn't "put out" after a few dates, but many others will. If a women puts out too early we often wonder if she is just an easy lay and the trust can be damaged... Obviously nobody has the perfect answer here as it depends on what both parties are looking for, if you are both just looking for a lay then more power to ya, if your looking for something longer term it's often better to wait a while IMHO. 8)
PaigeDWinter
11-05-2006, 07:19 AM
In some areas, lap dancing is LEGALLY considered prostitution. Personally I only call it prostitution if there's direct genital contact - either genital-oral, genital-hand or genital-genital, etc. I guess if a girl is purposely grinding a guy to orgasm, that would be prostitution as well. But just lap dancing, with no intention of getting the guy off - nah.
And in many areas, ANY contact for money is technically prostitution. Lapdances are technically illegal in those areas but most of the time it isnt enforeced. New York is that way, but its almost never enforeced... A lot of Florida is... but I know of only really Orlando that is really strict on it...
hot4ablackchick
11-06-2006, 10:44 AM
And in many areas, ANY contact for money is technically prostitution. Lapdances are technically illegal in those areas but most of the time it isnt enforeced. New York is that way, but its almost never enforeced... A lot of Florida is... but I know of only really Orlando that is really strict on it...
Yes, that is so true. The county that I live in states that any sexual contact for money is prostitution. We are suppossed to remain three feet away if we are even partially nude, and are not suppossed to grind, rub boobs in face, etc, even while clothed. It is suppossed to be far away air dance technically, and no boobie rubs for tips onstage either. I would have to agree that yes a lot of strippers are prostitutes. If you give more than an air dance, then yes you're a prostitute. It is only the stigma of the word that offends many. I don't and never have, had sex for money(Or done any other extras for money). I would still consider myself a prostitute.
Morally always. Legally depends on jurisdiction.
CheetahTim
12-22-2006, 01:39 AM
I heard it called a "Happy Finish"}:D
So if I'm by myself and have a "Happy Finish" or "Happy Ending" does that make me a prostitute? (Tampadancer was right....someone stop this insanity!:banghead:
lexXe
12-22-2006, 11:21 AM
Morally always. Legally depends on jurisdiction.
I agree with this. My family thinks dancing is prostitution because to them, if a man receive some form of sexual arousal or gratification (whether or not there is contact invovled) in exhange for money prostitution has occured. Most of society seems to think this way as well.
I don't care what people define lap dancing as because I am completely comfortable doing them.
laplover69
04-06-2008, 06:12 AM
http://gazettextra.com/news/2008/apr/06/lap-dancing-prostitution/
bem401
04-06-2008, 07:59 AM
In general, I would say you are prostituting yourself if you are doing something you find repugnant just for the money. In my job, I have joked about feeling like a whore for attending paid workshops strictly for the money.
In the SC world, if you are being paid to bring a guy to a happy ending, you are coming very close to, if not satisfying, the defintion of prostitution (IMO).
Lysondra
04-06-2008, 08:00 AM
Whoa, haven't see this thread in years..
Billy Jack
04-06-2008, 09:02 AM
So if your lapdancing a guy and after he runs to the mens room to "finish off" is that prostitution??
Lap dances are a sexual act, so I believe it would qualify as prostitution. Just my opinion.
Whoa, I just noticed how old this thread is! :O