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mr_punk
05-21-2006, 03:30 PM
this was in part inspired by DC thread (among others) about inconsistent strippers.

scenario: a PL walks into a sc. let's say, he's a guy looking for a stripper who can fool him better than most with her SS. perhaps, he has an ATF or he maybe buys dances from a couple of strippers. let's say, when they first met. she performed the whole 'GFE', ego stoke/conversation thing without fail, before asking if he wants her to rub his dick. however, lately she's been rushing him straight to the dances. which is further disappointing to him because he sees her chatting up other customers. yet, he still buys the dances hoping things will change. now, perhaps it will change or perhaps not. so, what's a PL to do besides quitting his day job, collecting unemployment and learning to play the guitar?

1)It's not personal. It's business.

in most instances, the level of the relationship between customer/stripper is more or less on the same level as the relationship as a waitress/customer. now, before anyone chimes in about it's not exactly the same as sex work...fine. how about...the level of the relationship between customer/stripper is more or less on the same level as the relationship as a crack or meth whore/customer or how about crack whore/dealer. obviously, the money is the drug and the money is whatever the customer is looking for (ie: goo-goo eyes, convo, etc).

anyway, my point is that, if a PL buys dancer from a stripper or is dropping money in the club on a regular or semi-regular basis. it's best to keep it on a "professional" level. however, no matter how "professional" you keep the relationship. there is an additional danger. specifically, it's not unusual for strippers to begin to view a regular customer as the 9th batter in the line-up: an automatic out or easy money or some meth flakes/crack rocks that she just found in the cushion of her couch.

yes, she will get lazy on you. if you let her get away with being lazy. yes, she will still want to get paid for a half-assed job. however, realize that it just comes with the territory of sc and strippers. so, don't take it as a personal affont. however, you do have options of your own.


2) free your mind and the ass will follow.


if you don't have the right mindset. everything i mentioned in 1# will be useless to you. sc are all about instant gratification or more aptly, "what have you done for me lately?". both customers and strippers want what they want. however, while a stripper will develop that mindset simply due to the nature of the biz. many customers don't have it within them, fail to develop it or are hesitant to put that knowledge in action for various reasons.

for instance, there might be an occasion when it's necessary to give a stripper a reality check. if a customer gets all sentimental over what's she done for him in the past. he might be hesitant to do anything about it. as a result, the problem grows and fester like a boil. so, it's a good idea not let sentimentality get in the way of your instant gratification. well, unless you're one of those altruistic or charitable types in the adopt-a-stripper program.


3) Nip it in the butt..er..bud.

which brings me to my final point. in a way, strippers can be like overindulged children. i mean, you not have PLs constantly building pedestals and temples in their honor. the customer also indulges her by giving her money regular or semi-regular basis. now, as long as she does her job properly. this isn't a problem. OTOH, if she's dogging it or you see a lack of focus (as stripper are wont to do) on her part. yet, she still wants your money.

what do you do? well, if you plan on giving any stripper money on a regular basis and she sets a certain standard of behavior that you like. from the very beginning, you have to let them know anything less is unacceptable. if it's necessary, you have to be willing to remind them that they must earn your money. it doesn't come free and there are strings attached. IOW, it's time for a reality check to correct the problem.

if think it involves a lot of drama and headache. frankly, nothing could be further from the truth. like i said, they do want the money. i've haven't met a stripper yet, who has turned down the bills i'm peeling from my tiproll.

azcustomer
05-21-2006, 04:56 PM
Classic post Mr. Punk.

Thank you.

yoda57us
05-22-2006, 05:50 AM
Exactly JZ. I know why I'm there and I know why she's there. If she's smart, she knows why I'm there as well. I'm perfectly content to suspend reality for a couple of hours and help this woman pay her bills as long as she feeds my need for ego gratification by making me feel like I could have her even if there was no money involved. This is the same for me no matter who the dancer is, where the club is, and what the contact level is.

GenWar
05-22-2006, 06:31 AM
Wow, great post, mr_punk. Really gave me some food for thought.

It is a business relationship. You are buying the service you wish (while our services differ, the principle is the same.) If a waitress, gas station attendant, cashier, cable guy or whatever is not providing the service I feel I deserve/am paying for, I let them know in no uncertain terms. I rarely have to go to the withholding of financial attentions because my communications are so clear. Hell, I have been chastised by my boss for reducing vendor reps to tears.

Why, then, would I suffer from a lack of desired service from my dancer? I had actually contemplated that thought without making the connection. I feel like I felt at the end of "Sixth Sense", kicking myself for not seeing what was so obvious for so long. Thanks for spelling out the plot twist for me, punk.

-gen

red red red
05-22-2006, 09:50 AM
As a dancer who loves the conquest aspect of my job almost as much as the long sparkly gowns, I'm all for this theory. A regular/dancer relationship gone lackluster is an energy drain on my night, too, regardless of how much money I make from it. I'd love it if some of my customers were more pro-active about making sure they got the experience they were looking for, simply because I enjoy being good at my job. I'm also a big fan of pro-customers who have a good understanding of what the transaction at hand actually is and is not... who doesn't like flexing their skills in a well-paired match? More fun for everyone, IMO.

CarGuy
05-22-2006, 07:57 PM
Always insightful, I sense this happening right now at my Fav Club. However, the more I read, the more I realize I can play the game as well and get the attention and service I like. At the moment I am playing a wit matching game with a sharp tongued 20 YO minx who has got me just about wrapped around her finger...which is a damn miracle since i have been hardened by the car business for a long time. Oh well...it's fun and I will win.

azcustomer
05-22-2006, 09:53 PM
Thanks again Mr. Punk.

Gen: You are very direct sir. Good for you.

Everyone has their own style. I grew up in So Cal on the beach and if I feel a fav isn't treating me right, then I wait until she knows I'm there and get a few dances from another girl. Then purposefully ignore the fav. If she comes up and expects to go straight to VIP without chatting, then I just say not yet.

Funny story, one of my old favs was a gal who gave me good dances on our first session and I got 5-7 dances from her ($10 a dance here, no big deal). The second time I went to the club, I was checking out the scene, but didn't see her. When I went to the bathroom, I accidently stubbed my sandal on a poor gal's shoe and apologized.

Just after I sat down the gal I'm looking for comes right to my lap and says: "thanks for the kick". I apologized profusely for her mistake, and she says she figured I was telling her she needed to stop and come over.

I found out later she was relatively new and building a clientele. Now she's one of the most popular and I'm proud to be one of her first reg's.

sportsfanonsw
05-23-2006, 06:48 AM
strippers can be like overindulged children..

Unlike children, however, strippers ... or any service provider, can be easily discarded and replaced with a superior or simply alternate one.

Sometimes I wish I could fire or discard a certain two year old hurricane of hell that I somehow spawned. Demon child. }:D

evan_essence
05-23-2006, 11:11 PM
if it's necessary, you have to be willing to remind them that they must earn your money. it doesn't come free and there are strings attached. IOW, it's time for a reality check to correct the problem.Ah, there's the rub. Serving up a reality check to a stripper means the customer has to come to terms with what reality is. Some customers don't want reality to intrude on their concept of the interaction, which, in their minds, has evolved into an interpersonal interaction in which money is incidental, rather than remaining a business transaction in which money is a primary motivator. In other words, he doesn't want to remind her that it's about earning his money because he doesn't want to admit to himself that it's about the money.

-Ev

dlabtot
05-24-2006, 12:15 AM
Ah, there's the rub. Serving up a reality check to a stripper means the customer has to come to terms with what reality is. Some customers don't want reality to intrude on their concept of the interaction, which, in their minds, has evolved into an interpersonal interaction in which money is incidental, rather than remaining a business transaction in which money is a primary motivator. In other words, he doesn't want to remind her that it's about earning his money because he doesn't want to admit to himself that it's about the money.

-Ev

Well, put... I guess what it comes down to is that while customers may be buying one fantasy, the dancer may get caught up in another fantasy where the money is just gonna come to her because she's who she is, rather than because she is providing a product that the customer wants to spend money on... she starts to think that it is about her, and sometimes doesn't want to do what it takes to keep earning the money because she doesn't want to admit to herself that it's about the SS and the tease

GenWar
05-24-2006, 05:45 AM
QUOTE=evan_essence:
Ah, there's the rub. Serving up a reality check to a stripper means the customer has to come to terms with what reality is. Some customers don't want reality to intrude on their concept of the interaction, which, in their minds, has evolved into an interpersonal interaction in which money is incidental, rather than remaining a business transaction in which money is a primary motivator. In other words, he doesn't want to remind her that it's about earning his money because he doesn't want to admit to himself that it's about the money.

-Ev
-------------------
This is, IMHO, the biggest mistake a customer can make. In fact, my first three rules (they are in order of importance) are designed to protect me from this:
1. Whatever money goes IN to the strip club, STAYS in the strip club.
2. Never forget it is a fantasy. Be a PL if you must, but never forget...
3. Dancers are there to make money. It motivates EVERYTHING they say and do.

As much as we might like to think it isn't about money, (In fact, that's kinda the point. ::) ) you can NEVER let this get away from you. The results of losing track of this can potentially be far far worse than simply being taken for granted by a dancer. Buy and enjoy the fantasy but keep at least a thin line tied tightly to reality at all times.

-gen

mr_punk
05-26-2006, 05:55 AM
I'd love it if some of my customers were more pro-active about making sure they got the experience they were looking for, simply because I enjoy being good at my job.good luck finding them. anyway, i've never come across a stripper who knew exactly what i wanted without any input from me. in my experience, there's a learning curve involved. the worst thing a customer can do is to not say something. his silence sets a bad precedent, creates a false impression for the stripper and the curve becomes more steep.

Some customers don't want reality to intrude on their concept of the interaction, which, in their minds, has evolved into an interpersonal interaction in which money is incidental, rather than remaining a business transaction in which money is a primary motivator. In other words, he doesn't want to remind her that it's about earning his money because he doesn't want to admit to himself that it's about the money.or perhaps he's reluctant to do so because he's afraid of the repercussions. in many instances, fantasy or not, customers do recognize the bad service. the question is whether or not they'll actually do something about it.

deuce
05-26-2006, 04:48 PM
in most instances, the level of the relationship between customer/stripper is more or less on the same level as the relationship as a waitress/customer.
This is the key. I was going to start a new thread, but I'll just make a short post here.

Many waitresses are every bit as hot as strippers.

The difference is that if you give a stripper $100, she'll be like, "That's it??" But if you give a waitress $100, it will totally make her day -- er, week -- er, month. She'll remember you and be your friend forever.

So here's the plan. However much you spend on an ATF stripper in a given month, go find an ATF waitress (or bartender) to spend a third of it on. Look around for a bit and find one who's super hot. Order some food or drinks from her and tip her $100 on a $10 tab. Leave before she counts it.

Next time you walk in, she'll treat you more special than any stripper ever did. So give her $100 again and make it a habit. Become her regular. She'll appreciate it way more than any stripper ever would. You won't get to see her boobs, so if that's all you care about, forget it. But you'll get way more specialized attention from her than you'd get from a stripper, and you'll mean more to her than you would to a stripper. Waitresses (or bartenders) don't normally make that much, so you'll stand out from the crowd by quite a bit. It will make you feel good.

Try it.

FBR
05-26-2006, 05:20 PM
Try it.

Naaa. 50% of the tab when the service is great and the bar staff cool is more than enough IMO Maybe a smidge more at a strip club if the waitress is hot and a former dancer :P

Titty bars and regular clubs/restaurants exist on two different worlds in terms of expectations on the part of both the customers and the service providers.

Back to Mr Punks topic, I agree that the service can and often does decline over time. You can either give them a reality check of some sort or just move on if you dont feel like going to the trouble of the additional time investment.

FBR

yoda57us
05-26-2006, 05:23 PM
The difference is that if you give a stripper $100, she'll be like, "That's it??" But if you give a waitress $100, it will totally make her day -- er, week -- er, month. She'll remember you and be your friend forever.



I've never had a "that's it??" reaction from any dancer in my life when I gave one $100. I think you are either being a bit presumptuous or expecting too much for your money. $100 is a not chump change but it isn't going to get any dancer with half a brain to drop everything and spend the rest of her night with you either. Weather it's private dances or convo time the $100 only buys what it buys.

Yeah, the waitress may appreciate the $100 but what am I getting for it? This IS after all a strip club. I don't go into find my next best forever-friend, I'm going for T&A. If I don't want to see boobs why am I in the club again?
For the record, I tip VIP waitress well ($25 to $50) simply because that's how you get them to leave you alone.

Susan Wayward
05-26-2006, 05:42 PM
You won't get to see her boobs, so if that's all you care about, forget it.


Really? I've never worked with a single waitress or bartender who wouldn't let you see the goods for a Benjamin.

Customers who tell you what they want are the best. Easy to deal with, and if you don't meet their expected level of service you can point them to someone who will. Few and far between, though.

doc-catfish
05-26-2006, 05:51 PM
Many waitresses are every bit as hot as strippers.
I sure wish they were in my neck of the woods, and the ones that are hot are just dancers who are waitressing for a change of pace.


The difference is that if you give a stripper $100, she'll be like, "That's it??"
Depends on the stripper and her expectations, and I've probably had more irritating experiences with SC waitresses in the past eleven years than I have had dancers.

But if you give a waitress $100, it will totally make her day -- er, week -- er, month. She'll remember you and be your friend forever.
I'll bet you could probably achieve the same treatment in most instances by tipping 100% of the tab. Anything more is really pissing one's money away IMO.


Next time you walk in, she'll treat you more special than any stripper ever did. So give her $100 again and make it a habit. Become her regular. She'll appreciate it way more than any stripper ever would.
While genuinely gracious acknowledgement of my patronage by either a waitress or dancer is always going to score brownie points from me, (and help ensure my continued business), what you're forgetting here is that the waitress, no matter how hot or flirty, is functionally limited to bringing me drinks and making change.

Sorry, but I consider the whole adage of buying drinks a maintenence expense that I have to give to the club for having access to the girls. I want to minimize it as much as possible.


You won't get to see her boobs, so if that's all you care about, forget it.
Dude. It's a strip club. People go to strip clubs to watch strippers. If I want to give a waitress stripper caliber treatment, I'll pass up the titty bar and go here (http://hooters.com/) instead.

evan_essence
05-26-2006, 07:54 PM
Order some food or drinks from her and tip her $100 on a $10 tab. Leave before she counts it. Next time you walk in, she'll treat you more special than any stripper ever did.Normal tip on a $10 tab: $2.
Deuce's tip on a $10 tab: $100.
The look on Deuce's face next time when he's told his waitress no longer works there: Priceless.

-Ev

SportsWriter2
05-26-2006, 09:31 PM
Normal tip on a $10 tab: $2.
Deuce's tip on a $10 tab: $100.
The look on Deuce's face next time when he's told his waitress no longer works there: Priceless.
Deuce just needs to substitute talk for money here. Go to a restaurant off-peak, chat the waitress up, listen to her, and leave a $10 tip. That saves $90 and you still made her day.

If you're in a city on business, ask questions about what to see. Chances are she's never seen at least one sight on your list. You can meet her there.

Just because a girl doesn't want to show her boobs on a club stage doesn't mean she won't be a JV ho in private.

easy_e
05-28-2006, 01:27 PM
Really? I've never worked with a single waitress or bartender who wouldn't let you see the goods for a Benjamin.

Customers who tell you what they want are the best. Easy to deal with, and if you don't meet their expected level of service you can point them to someone who will. Few and far between, though.

A benjamin or less. Usually a jackson or the expectation of a good tip is all it takes. (if that's what you want). This thread is funny to me because I actually called a "conference" at one time with my atf to inform her that I was not happy with her level of service (not talking extras here, just attention) and in the sweetest little voice she said ..."_e, are we breaking up? Have I lost you? Please don't go." After that she turned the charm wattage WAY up.

I've found by trial and error (mainly error) that most strippers will do pretty much whatever they think you want them to do, within their personal boundaries, and excepting cokebots. Of course the old adage that an employee will do the minumum amount of work to get paid and an employer will pay the minumum to keep them from quitting applies too.

deuce
05-30-2006, 11:10 AM
Normal tip on a $10 tab: $2.
Deuce's tip on a $10 tab: $100.
The look on Deuce's face next time when he's told his waitress no longer works there: Priceless.
Actually, it usually goes like this: "Hey, don't say anything because I haven't told the manager yet. But next month I'll be leaving here and starting at Jose's across town. I'll email you before then."

deuce
05-30-2006, 11:22 AM
Deuce just needs to substitute talk for money here. Go to a restaurant off-peak, chat the waitress up, listen to her, and leave a $10 tip. That saves $90 and you still made her day.
This is correct, it would still make her day -- although not to the same extent. I am not maximizing my attention per dollar by tipping more than I00%. But the $90 I'd save would be a $90 loss to her, so that part is a wash in the overall scheme of things.

lunchbox
05-30-2006, 12:08 PM
Actually, it usually goes like this: "Hey, don't say anything because I haven't told the manager yet. But next month I'll be leaving here and starting at Jose's across town. I'll email you before then."
The last time a girl said she was switching clubs to me, she vanished completely.

amylynnej
05-30-2006, 01:31 PM
Speaking from my point of view. Often my level of service towards my regulars depends on how they treat me. You can also take your dancer for granted. Its a mutual thing. yesyoure the one spending the money but she's the one who is providing the service. If you undertip your normal you may show her a sign that you dont want her around anymore and she'll move on. Its important that if you do, communicate this to her. Conversation and coimmunications skills are even important in a strip club.

We can all have bad days and as much as I try to separate my personal life from my professional one its not always easy.

Put yourselves in our shoes. Often we find comfort in our regular customers. When the night is not going well we look to you guys to bring us up and vice versa.

easy_e
06-01-2006, 08:02 AM
Put yourselves in our shoes. Often we find comfort in our regular customers. When the night is not going well we look to you guys to bring us up and vice versa.

Well said and good to hear.

SeppeSai
06-01-2006, 02:23 PM
Conversation and coimmunications skills are even important in a strip club.


Agreed.

Docido
06-01-2006, 05:22 PM
When the night is not going well we look to you guys to bring us up and vice versa.

After not visiting the club for a couple of months there is nothing better than having a fav spot you from across the room, come running across the club, and give you the little jump-up hug. Good times indeed!

bem401
06-01-2006, 06:56 PM
If you don't want your money taken for granted, don't spend heavily on the same girl every time you visit It would only be natural for her to view you as " money in the bank " under those circumstances.

Vaughn
06-01-2006, 11:55 PM
Getting beyond the obvious inflammatory language in the opening post such as incorrectly making strippers out to be equal or the same as crack or meth whores I can't disagree too much with the concepts presented here.

However, I would like to remind the customers that this is a two way street. There are just as many customers out there who begin to expect more and more service for the same or less money than is standard. That said, the ideas presented here can be applied to both customers and dancers alike in terms of not being taken for granted.

yoda57us
06-02-2006, 04:34 AM
However, I would like to remind the customers that this is a two way street. There are just as many customers out there who begin to expect more and more service for the same or less money than is standard. That said, the ideas presented here can be applied to both customers and dancers alike in terms of not being taken for granted.

I completely agree. If a friendly relationship with a regular dancer is what you want (and not all men do) it's important not to lose sight of the fact that she is ultimately at the club to earn a living. Expecting a fav to sit with you all afternoon if you are not spending money is a bit foolish. I know this sounds like common sense but I see it all too frequently when a PL convinces himself that his fav is so happy to see him that she will forgo earning a living for a few hours while he hangs out.

To be fair, sometimes a guy gets tired of a particular dancer and decides to cut back or eliminate his spending on her. At this point it's really up to the dancer to read the writing on the wall and look for a new customer. Don't count on the customer to conduct an exit interview...

dlabtot
06-02-2006, 08:07 AM
Well, this thread wasn't really about 'when regulars stop spending as much'. It's about when you are willing to spend as much but you don't get the same level of service because the dancer knows she doesn't have to 'sell'. I walked into a club a while back with several hundred dollars in my pocket to spend on my fave. But she was spending all her time at another table -- she was SURE she was gonna make a bunch of money off this guy, lol... so I told her I'd come back another night when she had more time to hang out. "well do you want some dances?" - "when I come back, now you better get back to your hustle" ... ps that guy ended up buying two dances

dayzed
06-02-2006, 08:35 AM
Sort of on topic (given the talk re: waitresses)... the other day I visited a club for the first time, was chatting up a bartender/waitress and topic turned to club policies... she told me that LDs were $20/song and then added that I could get a LD from her or the ticket girl for $50/song. I was surprised by this offer. Looks-wise they were in line w/, or even a bit inferior to, the strippers on the floor.

She must have sensed my bemusement because she hastily added that I could touch her anywhere but the kitty. However my subsequent LDs with the actual strippers showed me that this level of touching was available throughout the club, should you choose to pursue it, and so couldn't be the only draw for spending a full $50 for their LDs. I guess that some guys get that extra thrill from a LD performed by a technically more "chaste" category of SC worker.

Anyway not sure if this is a normal practice but I found it interesting.

mr_punk
06-02-2006, 09:31 AM
This is the key. I was going to start a new thread, but I'll just make a short post here.

Getting beyond the obvious inflammatory language in the opening post such as incorrectly making strippers out to be equal or the same as crack or meth whores I can't disagree too much with the concepts presented here.sigh..one person takes my analogy literally and another takes it too seriously.

However, I would like to remind the customers that this is a two way street. There are just as many customers out there who begin to expect more and more service for the same or less money than is standard.so leave....problem solved.

If you don't want your money taken for granted, don't spend heavily on the same girl every time you visit It would only be natural for her to view you as " money in the bank " under those circumstances.sure, which is why it's only natural to serve up a reality check.

she told me that LDs were $20/song and then added that I could get a LD from her or the ticket girl for $50/song. I was surprised by this offer.i would be surprised if they still had their eyeballs intact.

OHIOLEATHERGIRL
06-04-2006, 11:16 PM
sigh..one person takes my analogy literally and another takes it too seriously.
so leave....problem solved.
sure, which is why it's only natural to serve up a reality check.
i would be surprised if they still had their eyeballs intact.

WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT LAST LINE? JUST CURIOUS..............

toplessnewb
06-07-2006, 07:33 AM
This is the key. I was going to start a new thread, but I'll just make a short post here.
...
So here's the plan. However much you spend on an ATF stripper in a given month, go find an ATF waitress (or bartender) to spend a third of it on. Look around for a bit and find one who's super hot. Order some food or drinks from her and tip her $100 on a $10 tab. Leave before she counts it.

Next time you walk in, she'll treat you more special than any stripper ever did. So give her $100 again and make it a habit. Become her regular. She'll appreciate it way more than any stripper ever would. You won't get to see her boobs, so if that's all you care about, forget it. But you'll get way more specialized attention from her than you'd get from a stripper, and you'll mean more to her than you would to a stripper. Waitresses (or bartenders) don't normally make that much, so you'll stand out from the crowd by quite a bit. It will make you feel good.

Try it.

Mark is a four letter word....but so is CASH....and GOLD....and.....

Casual Observer
06-08-2006, 11:19 AM
To be fair, sometimes a guy gets tired of a particular dancer and decides to cut back or eliminate his spending on her. At this point it's really up to the dancer to read the writing on the wall and look for a new customer. Don't count on the customer to conduct an exit interview...

Well said.

<S> Yoda

Jenny
06-08-2006, 11:26 AM
Sort of on topic (given the talk re: waitresses)... the other day I visited a club for the first time, was chatting up a bartender/waitress and topic turned to club policies... she told me that LDs were $20/song and then added that I could get a LD from her or the ticket girl for $50/song. I was surprised by this offer. Looks-wise they were in line w/, or even a bit inferior to, the strippers on the floor.
Yeah, I would be furious; I don't know that I would claw out anyone's eyes so much as I would talk to the manager. Most bartenders want to bartend not strip, so if this one is insisting she's probably more easily replaced than the ton of dancers she is pissing off.

A couple of clubs I have worked in have bar and waitstaff way, way hotter than the dancers. This kind of ticks me off too, actually. One or two waitresses, I could handle - it's not really their fault that they are exceptionally pretty. When the entire bar staff is way, WAY more attractive than us, it gets like: "What the fuck? It would kill you to hire an ugly waitress?" In particular if they are not adequately trained or instructed on the different roles in the strip clubs.

On the subject of tipping a waitress $100 - strip club waitresses would probably take it in stride, but find you really creepy. I mean, they will take your money, but they will be creeped out. In a lot of normal bars they would likely avoid you, because that is really creepy.