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trainfinder22
05-22-2006, 02:32 PM
was working in a full nude club giving lap dances....

So i am sitting at the bar in Deerfeild Mass and I am talking to a middel aged man about his exprance in Fort Erie ON. He goes into graphic detail about how he got a lap dance from a dancer up there...Meanwhile his 7 year old daughter is playing pinball in the back of the bar sipping root beer. So I ask him...."So what would you do if you found out lets say 15 years from now that your daughter has picked up a job at strip club to pay for college?" He replies..."Well I um uh would have felt that I somehow have failed as a father in that she did not take in anything that I taught her""....
But you just told me--- Yeah but that was along time ago and that was diffrent..
Okay So what your saying is that that you can screw strange women and boast about your exploits but you still consider yourself the God given Supream Gaudiuan of your Daughters Chastity??...."Well now that I am a Born Again Christion now that I am married and Have a family I have a obligation to pass on my Christion Values"..
Chistion Values? "Yeah as in the bible"...
Timeout here!!! Has anyone really read the bible...Not just pick apart it by chapter and verse but read it like a novel from front to back. I have and its full of sex prositition incest and harems of harlots even a few homosexuals (paul and the eunics) and I know that those caravans had middle eastern dancers who stripped naked and sold themselves off to the highest bidder..Dads and All Fathers here I have news for you the
day of being the gaurdians of your daughters virginity is over and besides viginity is overrated anyway...Chances are that your twleve your old has already picked up a a copy of Cosmo and knows more about sex then you do. The days of familys having control of what there kids see and here and limit there exposure to infomattion about sex was over with the internet. Some parrents are still trying to keep there children in a clamshell about sexulity. There exscuse is that they want there kids to be kids for as long as possible and they dont wan them to grow up so fast. What they are really saying is that they are controlling parrents who have lost everything to the capilist system and there children are there only possesions and they feel some sence of empowerment they thety could own another human being as in "there" children.
Here is the wake up call...."Only God-Jehova-hashem owns children and every human being is created in his (or her) image and is a free-willed being that thinks and walks and talks for him or her self and being created in Gods image is a little god in his or here own right....Amen!

TigersMilk
05-22-2006, 03:12 PM
This is so wierd.

MadisonM
05-22-2006, 03:23 PM
There are strip clubs that allow fathers to bring their children in? Yuck.

GenWar
05-22-2006, 03:51 PM
I *THINK* I understood that Train. Tell me if my comment makes sense...

I am not a father. I will be one. I don't WANT to but that is immaterial. Just ask Mrs. Gen. It will happen when she decides it will happen and that is the end of that.

Still, even ignorant of being a parent, I gotta think that any effort to protect one's child from points of view that are, in my judgement, detrimental to healthy development and, ultimately, developing into a happy, worthwhile adult, is effort well spent. (Great, Now I am talking like you.) Yeah, there is a LOT of crap out there but just because I might fail to screen ALL of it from my kid doesn't mean I should just accept it. Yeah, the Bible contradicts itself and has a lot of reality; that doesn't mean it doesn't offer lessons (some obvious and clear & others more faith-based) that say something useful about how a person should behave in responsible society. Isn't it not only the right but the responsibility of a parent to try and filter reality into digestable chunks for the child as they try and struggle their way to maturity?

OK, so this guy wasn't doing the world's best job, granted. I am with you on that. But, in his mind, he had an idea of what a person SHOULD be and he wanted that for his daughter. He knew that he had to try and protect her from that to which she should not be exposed and he took the responsibility seriously. He just completely, utterly and totally FUBAR'ed the implementation, is all. So he is not the sharpest tool in the shed. So he may even be a hypocrite. But his effort (minimal and misguided as it is) is not without value.

Make sense?

-gen

doc-catfish
05-22-2006, 04:39 PM
There are strip clubs that allow fathers to bring their children in? Yuck.
I think TF and the guy he was talking about met in a regular bar, and the guy was telling TF a story about his trip to a SC in Ontario.

Considering the lack of proper formatting though, I see where one could make the mistake. I can't tell what part of that commentary is the OP's diatribe and what part of it is the wisdom of this born-again rube he was apparantly talking to.

azcustomer
05-22-2006, 04:43 PM
GenWar,

You make some excellent points. All of which I agree.

However trainfinder does make some points to consider. Any parent will want to teach their own set of morals and expectations for preferred behavior to their kids. I know I did with my stepdaughters who are now grown up. The advent of cell phones, text messaging and the internet made it near impossible for me to control what my kids were exposed to. Kids today certainly have many more tools to explore their sexuality than when I grew up. And more power to them.

That being said, as far as I can tell neither daughter wants to be a stripper other than maybe as a fantasy. I grew up in a household which valued using the mind for math, science and writing. These are what my ex and I talked to our daughters about and I suspect those are the paths they'll chose.

That being said, I enjoy strip clubs now that the girls are grown and I no longer have to maintain a promise from my now ex not to go. If my daughters became interested, I'd want them to explore it with an open mind and realistic expectations.

yoda57us
05-22-2006, 04:54 PM
Some of the most moral women I know are dancers. It's a job. They dance for money.

Paris
05-22-2006, 04:57 PM
Trainfinder22, aren't you really talking about being socially elite more than you are talking about the virginity and chasity of girls?

Over history a girl who was a verifible virgin had a better market value than a girl who had been deflowered. This harkens back to when women were property to be traded for money or power. A daughter was a ticket to climbing social ladders or to gain monetarily by her parents.

This carried over into the 20th century when marriages were still largely arranged, and birth control was non exsistant. The only way a man could be 100% positive a child was his was if the woman he married had never had sex with anyone else before or after marrying him. It is only just recently that we have had accurate testing for paternity.

That Father probably no more wanted his daughter to grow up being a cashier at Wal Mart, or being a housekeeper or working at a drive up window than he wanted her being a stripper. All of that is honest work, but it is not very high brow, and not likely to get her in good with powerful soicial circles (and him by proxy).

Should the father stop shopping at Wal Mart, using the drive up window or staying in motels because he is a hippocrite for not wishing his daughters do any of those jobs?

Now if the argument is that he is trying to protect his daughter from pain (Stds, pregnancies, abuse, and heartbreak) is why he is protecting her chasity, then that is normal for a parent to wish to protect their children, and most parents will spare no expense to protect their kids from illness or injury.

trainfinder22
05-22-2006, 05:22 PM
Yes this guy was in working class bar. Yes the bar welcomes parents with young children as there are legions of single working parrents in the area. This man was working class and the bar is frequinted with UMASS Amherst Maintance People and other people who work for the "College" as blue coller workers. Protecting your daughters chasity seems to be a blue coller and miltary family thing now. The Elite and Upper Middle Class familys are very liberal and usally attend Episcopal or United Church of Christ when and if they go to church. There is a cold war brewing between the working class conservitive yankee population and older proffesers and the Yuppies that have moved in from Boston and New York City. The Local Strip Club has been the bain of many of a scorned New England Woman! Even though I can confirm that its middle aged dancers are women there 40s are there more for there own gratification to be sexy for one or two nights out of the week and have a good time.

red red red
05-22-2006, 10:53 PM
I don't know... I just recently told my family that I was a dancer and my father's reaction was a shocking (to me): "Well, I go to this one strip club on my lunch break all the time and I know most dancers are just nice girls trying to make an honest living like anyone else." This is not only the last thing I would have expected from my dad, but it raised a lot of interesting points in my mind about my own hypocrisy. My first thought was, "if any of these bitches are rolling my hard-working dad for chump change, I'll murder them in their sleep." Whoa, right? Yeah... It's a complicated equation to say the least.

Of course it's not what my family had in mind for me. Of course it's not necessarily the most socially forward thing I could be doing with my college degree/what I've been taught by my parents. Do they want me to be happy? Yes. Are they willing to wrap their brains around the fact that at this point in time, I'm not going to be happy working an office job for less pay? Yes. Do they like it? No. Do they think they've failed as parents because of it? My god, I hope not. I'm the same girl they raised... I'm just applying it in a different way than they would have ideally wanted for me. That could have happened in any number of ways, be it Wal-Mart, a waitressing job, or even a job in my field that made me completely miserable.

I'm very grateful for the fact that my parents have grown up with me... we're a family and we love each other no matter what. I need their support to feel like I'm doing well for myself... and the fact that I can get even halfway support from them for what I'm doing right now is amazing to me, and far more than I'd been expecting. In fact, I wouldn't have thought it possible until I had to confront it.

People in hypothetical situations say dumb shit all the time... they don't know any better. I feel like no one knows what their own opinions will actually be until it's their own life.

All Good Things
05-22-2006, 11:09 PM
^ This is a beautiful post. Thank you.

yoda57us
05-23-2006, 05:26 AM
People in hypothetical situations say dumb shit all the time... they don't know any better. I feel like no one knows what their own opinions will actually be until it's their own life.

This is so true. A board like this is obviously a place for opinions but when it comes to some topics, unless you are living it, it's all just speculation.

I've raised a wonderful and intelligent 18 year old daughter. I don't think for one minute that I can control her life or her decisions and that's exactly the way I want it. I raised her to be an independent thinker, to be honest with other people and, most importantly, to be honest with herself.

SassyMom
05-23-2006, 06:28 AM
I have a 14 year old daughter and we've raised her to be confident, intelligent and SAFE! Of course, my in-laws would say that we don't shelter her enough and she has lost her innocence at too tender an age. However, hubby and I disagree. My daughter knows about drugs, sex, and violence. She understands that people can be nice, but they can also be backstabbing and cruel. She knows how to use a gun, as well as other weapons, for her protection. The world seems to become more dangerous every day and I want her to be prepared. That being said - if my streetwise, book smart daughter decides she wants to be a dancer - I'll loan her my shoes.

trainfinder22
05-23-2006, 12:06 PM
My mother worked at a multi-national,multi-billion doller company as the exucutive assistant to the president of such company.
She would get up at 5:00 in the morning and spend at least 2 hours on her makeup,hair, and clothing. She had a penchant for expensive often sexy clothing
and low cut Erin Brocovitch type blouses. She prided herself on her apperance and her attidtude because she knew that in her fast paced enviroment her sexulity was a weapon in addition to her attude was a weapon to be used.
While she may have been the exucutive assistant she was and respected as the Defacto President of the company. She also acted as the "House Mother" and trained legions of secratarys in how to do there jobs. Needless to say when ever she walked into May Co or Macys Department stores clerks would trip over each other to serve her.....
My mother has some experance as a dancer in more conventional dancing and all dance and other public performance teaches self-confidence.....
The "Art of Exotic Dancing for Everyday Women" Classes teach women on how to move and so on and so forth...
Now I would be proud if I found out that my daughter was a exotic dancer in that she was a pole dancer or stipper on stage but I would have a #### fit if I found out that she was doing contact lap dances because that is too close to prostitution :-\

Yekhefah
05-23-2006, 04:29 PM
I am not a father. I will be one. I don't WANT to but that is immaterial. Just ask Mrs. Gen. It will happen when she decides it will happen and that is the end of that.

Dude, you need to get a vasectomy. Seriously. Don't inflict an unwilling father on an innocent child; there are way too many already. Stand up for your own life.

GenWar
05-23-2006, 06:03 PM
^^^^ How do I answer that???

ummm...Thanks?

-gen

SassyMom
05-26-2006, 09:39 PM
Yehhefah - maybe you should talk to Mrs. Gen - or maybe his comment was tongue-in-cheek?

Gen - BTW, once you have a kid - kiss the SC goodbye - no more money.....

kdogg247
05-27-2006, 06:24 AM
Gen - You'll change your mind once you have a child.

Yek- I can tell from his posts that Gen's a man of character - not the kind of guy who would abandon his child.

yoda57us
05-27-2006, 11:42 AM
Gen: No worries. Parenthood is not something that anyone can fully prepare for but you'll do fine.

No more SC'??? Hardly. I spent my last visit showing off pictures of my 18 year old to my favs.

GenWar
05-27-2006, 03:35 PM
I have discussed the issue of clubbing post children with the wife extensively. I don't believe the money will be a concern but there are no clubs in my home town. Disappearing for 2-3 days on a pregnant wife or with a young child at home is REALLY bad form, IMHO. I don't think I could live with myself. So I have already agreed that I will probably be GREATLY reducing the trips from 3-4 times a month to 3-4 times a year. At least until the kid is old enough to take care of themselves.

EVERYONE says that the attitude changes. Not only do I believe them (or I really WOULDN'T have kids) but I am banking on it. One of my direct reports has 5 kids. He always says, "I still hate kids. Just now, I only hate OTHER PEOPLE'S kids."

Just hope to get to my goal of 100 clubs before we get pregnant. 62 and counting...(#62 was Treasures in Houston. #63 will be Sundowner in Niagara Falls. Tough life, eh? :) )

-gen