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Deogol
05-25-2006, 05:06 PM
Is Congress about to give illegals rights you and I, as citizens, can only dream about? Completely insane.





Here is a list of Grassley’s “Top 10.”

1. $2,000 Fine -- Under the bill, an illegal alien can go from illegal to legal by paying a small fine of $2,000. Often, illegal aliens will pay more than five times this amount to a smuggler to get across the border. Also, the $2000 fine may not have to be paid until year eight, which allows the illegal alien to live, work, and play in the United States for years free from deportation. This imposes a financial burden on the American taxpayer for health, education, and infrastructure costs that aren’t reimbursed for five or ten years.



2. Taxes -- Under the bill, illegal aliens get an option to only have to pay three of their last five years in back taxes. Law-abiding American citizens do not have the option to pay some of their taxes. The bill would treat lawbreakers better than the American people. The bill also makes the IRS prove that illegal aliens have paid their back taxes. It will be impossible for the IRS to truly enforce this because they cannot audit every single person in this country.



3. Security Clearances in 90 days – Under the bill, the Department of Homeland Security must perform background checks on illegal aliens in the United States. It also encourages the federal government to complete the background checks on 10 million illegal aliens in 90 days. This is a national security concern because Homeland Security will be pressured to complete these checks without doing a thorough job.



4. Work Requirements – Under the bill, illegal aliens must prove they’ve worked in the United States for three of the last five years. It also says they have to work for six years after the date of enactment of the bill. However, there is no continuous work requirement for amnesty. They could work for 30 days, take off 30 days, work for 30 days. The bill also says that illegal aliens have to prove that they’ve worked in the United States for three of the last five years by showing IRS or Social Security records, or records maintained by federal, state, or local governments, employers, unions or day labor centers. However, the bill also allows illegal aliens to ask anybody to attest that they have been employed. This invites fraud, and the government cannot realistically investigate all these cases.



5. Confidentiality – Under the bill, ifan illegal alien applies for amnesty, the federal government cannot use information provided in the application for anything but adjudicating the petition. For example, if illegal aliens write in their applications that they are related to Osama Bin Laden, then our government cannot use that information. In fact, it says that the Secretary of Homeland Security can only share that information if someone requests it in writing. This provision severely handicaps national security and criminal investigators.



Also, if a federal agent does use information provided by an illegal alien in an application for amnesty the agent would be fined $10,000. This is five times more than the alien has to pay to get amnesty.



6. Social Security to illegal aliens -- Under the bill, illegal aliens are not prohibited from getting credit for the money they’ve put into the Social Security system if they’ve worked in the U.S. illegally. Illegal immigrants who paid Social Security taxes using a stolen Social Security Number did not do so with the expectation that they would ever qualify for Social Security benefits. (The Ensign amendment would have taken care of this, but it did not pass.)



(Deo: Imagine if you, as an American Citizen decided to forge papers - would you go to jail for that? How about engaging in identity theft as an American Citizen - think you would go to jail for that? Well guess what citizen - you go to jail - they get amnesty.)





7. Employers get a tax pardon for hiring illegal aliens -- Under the bill, employers of aliens applying for adjustment of status “shall not be subject to civil and criminal tax liability relating directly to the employment of such alien.” Businesses that hired illegal workers would now get off scott-free from paying the taxes that they owe the government. This encourages employers to violate our tax laws and not pay what they owe the federal government. In addition to not having to pay their taxes, employers are also off the hook for providing illegal aliens with records or evidence that they have worked in the U.S. The employer is not subject to civil and criminal liability for having employed illegal aliens in the past, or before enactment.



8. Family Members of H-2C Visa Holder need not be healthy -- Under the bill, spouses and children of H-2C visa holders are exempt from a requirement proving that they meet certain health standards. The visa holder is required to undergo a medical exam, but their family members are not which potentially puts Americans at risk.



9. Mandatory Departure isn’t really Mandatory -- Under the bill, the Secretary of Homeland Security “may grant” Deferred Mandatory Departure to illegal aliens in the 2-5 year category. The Secretary “may” also waive the departure requirement if it would create substantial hardship for the alien to leave.



10. No Interview Required. – Under the bill, illegal aliens in the 2nd tier who are required to leave the country can re-enter the United States on a visa. However, the bill does not require these individuals to be interviewed. The bill doesn’t give discretion to our consular offices to require an interview. The 9/11 hijackers weren’t subject to appear in person. Today, the State Department requires most applicants to submit to interviews, and waives them only for children and the elderly.

Tara Nicole
05-25-2006, 05:29 PM
We all know you have SERIOUS objections to granting any rights be it civil, human or other such things to illegal's. And we also know that you oppose the current plan in the works in regards to dealing with the illegal immigrant situation. However, I am extremely curious to know is what do you suggest as an alternative plan. If you have a superior plan why not suggest it to your State reps or other such people who could propose it should it in fact be a more feasible, workable and superior plan.

I do not plan to argue with you about your ideas instead I am simply interested to read and consider them.

Deogol
05-25-2006, 06:01 PM
1) Stop helping employers with hiring illegal aliens. They should be sought out and fined - HEAVILY. No money - no desire to be in the US.

2) Build the fence. Put more law enforcement (and even troops) on the border. Send ICE to Home Depot and start asking some questions of those hanging out on the sidewalk. The border has more problems than jumpers and "terrorists." It is a conduit for violent gangs (like MS13.) It has drug runners poisoning the people of the US. There is even talk of young girls put into sexual slavery to pay off their coyotes.

3) Require proof of citizenship for welfare, schooling, and other such government benefits - even for the so called "anchor babies." Require schools to report suspected illegals. There is no reason why a citizen from Oregon should have to pay more to go to a California school than an illegal does.

4) The US should be demanding as much reform in Mexico as Vicente Fox seems to be demanding for the US. Mexico is an oil producing country. It has access to two of the oceans. It certainly has the resources to get it's self together with the right investments and the right reforms.

TifaRae
05-25-2006, 08:22 PM
"Require proof of citizenship for welfare, schooling, and other such government benefits"

AGREED.

Tara Nicole
05-25-2006, 09:34 PM
Deogol,

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my request.

azcustomer
05-25-2006, 10:02 PM
Tara, I share your feelings on the subject.

And Deogol, I agree wholeheartedly about prosecuting employers who hire illegals. They need to have their feet held to the fire.

To me, the two big challenges are:

1) securing our border to stop new entrants
2) get the current illegals all registered so we can figure out how to handle them

If the current bill provides a way to incent illegals currently here to come forward, then I'll begrudgingly ignore some of it's ills. There is no way we're going to imprison or return 11 million workers, we need to "identify" the problem now or risk having it get only worse by not being to "identify" the problem in the future.

lunchbox
05-26-2006, 07:38 AM
And Deogol, I agree wholeheartedly about prosecuting employers who hire illegals. They need to have their feet held to the fire.
How do you expect small business owners to know if someone is illegal or not?

DancerWealth
05-26-2006, 08:45 AM
How do you expect small business owners to know if someone is illegal or not?

Herein lies a really big problem Lunchbox and it's a good point. In a different thread I mentioned how my wife who works in the restaraunt industry is in a real jam with illegals and cannot do anything about it because of the current laws, it gets worse.

I was talking to her about this just last night and here is what she told me. Her job, by the way, is to train General Managers for a large italian restaraunt chain. Part of that issue is dealing with the tons of illegals who apply for positions. So here is the jam she is in because of the current insane laws we have on the books:


Illegal alien applies for a job using a stolen Social Security number that he/she and 47 other people on their block are all sharing. Not having access to any database to use with ease to check on the validity of the card, the illegal gets hired because, after all, they do have a Social Security card. Doing a background check on this person to check their validity is extremely expensive and time consuming and considering that this person is needed for an immediate opening for a position paying $6.50 an hour, a background check is not a viable option right now.
The person gets hired and immediately after they do, they admit they are an illegal alien. This has happened to my wife on several occasions. The trouble is that my wife has NOTHING she can do about it. You're probably saying, "well, why doesn't she fire them?" Ah, therein lies the problem. Let's say there is a known illegal alien working for the restaraunt. If they are Mexican (which, is most likely the case) the restaraunt may be subject to fines, penalties, and lawsuits for terminating an employee for racial discrimination. Even though the person being fired is here, in this country illegally, they can still sue and the Department of Labor can fine the restaraunt for wrongful termination. There is already prescedence on the books for this. Oh, but wait, there's more;
This is the best one yet. Let's say the illegal is hired (using falsified documents) and then admit to being an illegal alien after they are hired, the company can get fined for reporting them to the I.N.S.! Yes, you heard me right. The reason is because the I.N.S. then comes back and says, "Well, all of your employees should have been experts in catching illegals when you hired this person so now that you knowingly employeed an illegal alien, you are subject to fines and penalties in the thousands or tens of thousands of dollars." This is even if the employer REPORTED the illegal.
So before everyone starts blaming the companies for employing illegal aliens, we first need to fix the laws so that they better catch them on the hiring process and not hurt them for being unknowing participants in the government's failures to catch them in the first place. So many companies have to take a passive approach to illegal aliens not by choice, but because the laws say they have to.

azcustomer
05-26-2006, 08:59 AM
How do you expect small business owners to know if someone is illegal or not?

Lunchbox,

It's a judgment call. If I were in the position to enforce the laws, I wouldn't go after all the small business owners with strict enforcement. I'd check to make sure they had reasonable procedures in place to check the validity of the SS card. Similar to how other laws and regulations are enforced, you just put the company on notice and educate them on how they can improve. You go back and if they seem to be doing more, then you let them go. If not, harrass them with fines and additional regulations. It's like any audit, whether accounting or regulatory.

As a semi-retired banker, I used to do site visits to business customers all the time. It doesn't take long at all to get a feeling for the business owner's attitudes about using illegals. Some (very few) took verification seriously and treated their employees with respect. Some didn't take verification seriously but still treated their employees with respect. Some (most) clearly knew they hired illegals and used this knowledge against the employees to suppress wages and benefits. This last category are the employers who need to be penalized.

DancerWealth: There may be a precedent set for racial discrimination but not in Nevada or Arizona. Both are "right to work" states, which is a euphamism for "right to fire at will". It's not suprising that both states have the slowest growth in average real wages. California and Mass. are a different story.

PhaedrusZ
05-27-2006, 07:00 AM
I just heard something about this bill from an early-morning radio talk show personality who used to be a federal prosecutor. He at least seems to think if this bill does pass as it is currently written, it can be successfully challenged in the U.S. court system as being in direct violation of "equal protection under the law." This, due to providing more rights for non-citizens who have broken U.S. law than U.S. citizens. He also appeared to believe some group such as "Judicial Watch," might initiate exactly such a lawsuit, although he hopes it will never reach that point.

kdogg247
05-27-2006, 07:23 AM
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i19/kdogg247/redneck_pics_bordertrap.jpg

Tara Nicole
05-27-2006, 11:59 AM
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i19/kdogg247/redneck_pics_bordertrap.jpg


That is so wrong. These are humanbeings we are discussing here not animals. You should be ashamed.

madmaxine
05-27-2006, 03:13 PM
Tres Palabras Here Folks- Rube Goldberg Contraption. Gracias y Goodniiiight!

funlatina82
06-04-2006, 01:05 AM
WOW! Some pretty offensive stuff here but I agree with some of it. My parents came from Mexico in 1980 and had to wait in line to get their citienship so I don't think it's fair for those who have done things the right way. But hey, I AM Mexican-American and I thought this website had some rules about certain things. So many people here with different backgrounds, beliefs, etc. A few of the comments are offensive, inaccurate and ignorant.

Deogol
06-04-2006, 05:25 AM
That is so wrong. These are humanbeings we are discussing here not animals. You should be ashamed.

That would probably catch me (non-latino) cuz I looooooove Tacos! Tacos are a snack food to me.

Especially breakfast tacos! Anyone have those? Those are awesome - especially the potatos/bacon with a dash of habenero sauce - oh man - a good way to start the day!

kdogg247
06-04-2006, 05:46 AM
Tara Nicole - I am not ashamed for posting a picture that is obviously a joke.

Funlatina - Race has nothing to do with the issue. Why should millions of illegal aliens be allowed to just walk across the border like they own the whole damn country when your parents had to jump through a million freakin hoops in order to be able to live here?

Deogol - I love me some tacos, too. I could eat Mexican food every day.

Tara Nicole
06-04-2006, 12:38 PM
A joke ot not it is in poor taste, in my opinion. But this is the USA and you have the right to say or post a joke like that and I have the right to voice an objection to it.

Just so you know when I signed on today I had 8 pm's thanking me for my comment about your joke. So I think more than a few people around here found it offensive. I don't know if you care that you offended people or not but I figured I would let you know and then you could do what you wanted with that knowledge. Have a nice day.

Deogol
06-04-2006, 08:51 PM
I'm curious Tara, is this funny? Cuz it definitely is making fun of red necks (aka poor ignorant WHITE people)

Yekhefah
06-04-2006, 09:07 PM
How is that making fun of rednecks?

Tara Nicole
06-04-2006, 09:07 PM
It isn't funny to me, no. And that is all that I am going to say about it because I realize you are just trying to antagonize me.

funlatina82
06-05-2006, 04:21 AM
see, that's one of the benefits of mexicans in the U.S.! Tacos. Try menudo for breakfast. It's a lot better than tacos! And great for hangovers.

funlatina82
06-05-2006, 04:46 AM
kdogg,
I'm a little buzzed here, but that is my point. Many people in the U.S think that all hispanics are pro-illigal immigration. I do not agree with illegal immigrants getting amnesty. Like I said, my parents went thru a long process to EARN their citizenship. I just don't want Americans to assume that all hispanics are pro-illegal immigration. These days, the word "Mexican" has such a negative meaning to many Americans. I really wish that these issues would be so much easier. I am a proud American. I don't agree with people thinking they can just come into our country illegally and expect to become citizens

PhaedrusZ
06-05-2006, 06:16 AM
see, that's one of the benefits of mexicans in the U.S.! Tacos. Try menudo for breakfast. It's a lot better than tacos! And great for hangovers.

Menudo? Bleah! There isn't any reason for me to like that tripe!

But to be serious instead of facetious, a friend of mine from the past had immigrated here from Mexico City when he was about fifteen. What his parents had done, though, was immigrate to Canada and become Canadian citizens first. Then they immigrated to the U.S. as Canadians, eventually becoming legal U.S. citizens. Of course, his family had more money than most of those currently crossing the border illegally.

kdogg247
06-05-2006, 06:25 AM
Funlatina - I'm glad we agree. I'm sorry if the picture I posted offended you. Tastefulness is not always my strong point.

BTW - for anyone interested, boortz.com has an archive of "redneck" pics like the one Deogol posted. Some are very funny.

lunchbox
06-06-2006, 02:00 PM
Like I said, my parents went thru a long process to EARN their citizenship.
Have you asked if they were 'legally here' while going through this "long process"?

lunchbox
06-06-2006, 02:02 PM
Especially breakfast tacos! Anyone have those? Those are awesome - especially the potatos/bacon with a dash of habenero sauce - oh man - a good way to start the day!
I used to live a few blocks away from Mi Madres, best in Austin.

kdogg247
06-06-2006, 03:26 PM
lunchbox - Just because your "extras" girls are undocumented [sex] workers doesn't mean Funlatina's parents did the same thing.

Edit - "same thing" = "being here illegally"

lunchbox
06-06-2006, 09:29 PM
lunchbox - Just because your "extras" girls are undocumented [sex] workers doesn't mean Funlatina's parents did the same thing.
How cute, an attempt to flame over a legitimate question. You're barking up the wrong tree, my current fav is off Scottish descent, and I've never taken my dick out in an SC.

kdogg247
06-07-2006, 06:53 AM
It was more of a joke than an attempt to flame you. Sorry if I offended you.

funlatina82
06-11-2006, 10:01 PM
lunchbox,
Si. Yes. THEY WERE HERE LEGALLY.