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dayzed
06-04-2006, 02:28 PM
Although still inchoate, I believe my junkie career has progressed to the point that a few emerging trends can be discerned. One is that virtually all of the SS to which I am subjected (particularly during and post-LD) revolves around some permutation of the "you're such a gentleman" idea. You know -- "such a pleasure to dance for you, after all the pigs today"; "you seem so genuine and gentle"; yada yada.

Such statements set the alarm bells to ringing, as they indicate that a) I am giving off white-knight vibe (they think I want to be described as a gentleman) and b) I didn't make them work as hard for their $ as others do (the "gentleman" statements being tantamount to an expression of thanks).

I think most of the misunderstanding (LOL) derives from the fact that I am not a groper. For a range of reasons, Dayzed does not seek to probe or pester the more sensitive anatomical areas of his stripper companions. Dancer-to-Dayzed contact, on the other hand? Yes, please. Bring it on. With extreme prejudice.

I have realized pretty quickly that there is no actual advantage to being viewed as a "gentleman" in a SC -- particularly given the possible degree to which the "gentleman' perception might relieve the strippers from any inclination to initiate higher mileage. So, getting to the point, finally -- any suggestions for breaking this pattern?

I have perused at length the Collected Works of the resident "maestros of mileage" -- you know, Mr._P, AggieEd, CP, and the like -- and have gathered that most dancers willing to go the extra mile will initiate such on their own. If this is true, the customer "persona" may not play as much a role (in mileage) as I am suggesting. It could be that I just haven't found the right dancer yet, particularly in Denver, which seems to pretty much be a mid-mileage town.

On the other hand, to the degree that the customer must be clear about what he wants, I admit to being hesitant to explicitly request, for fear of getting the stripper-clog upside the head. Are there more subtle methods that the mileage-hounds employ?

doc-catfish
06-04-2006, 03:24 PM
Although still inchoate, I believe my junkie career has progressed to the point that a few emerging trends can be discerned. One is that virtually all of the SS to which I am subjected (particularly during and post-LD) revolves around some permutation of the "you're such a gentleman" idea. You know -- "such a pleasure to dance for you, after all the pigs today"; "you seem so genuine and gentle"; yada yada.

Such statements set the alarm bells to ringing, as they indicate that a) I am giving off white-knight vibe (they think I want to be described as a gentleman) and b) I didn't make them work as hard for their $ as others do (the "gentleman" statements being tantamount to an expression of thanks).
Me thinks you're having a little confusion with the terminology. Being genuinely nice does not make one a "white knight", and being a white knight is not being nice, nor genuine. One becomes a WK when he thinks his favorite entertainer needs to be saved from the evil clutches of her respective profession and gives her some deluded promise of the same money she is making for practically sitting on her ass. Its effectively the SC equivalant of falling on one's sword.


I think most of the misunderstanding (LOL) derives from the fact that I am not a groper. For a range of reasons, Dayzed does not seek to probe or pester the more sensitive anatomical areas of his stripper companions. Dancer-to-Dayzed contact, on the other hand? Yes, please. Bring it on. With extreme prejudice.
I'm not a groper either. One reason that I don't grope is that I want my entertainer to be comfortable with what she is doing. While I'm nowhere near monger status, I've had plenty of dancers initiate higher mileage activities, sometimes finding the gesture of keeping my hands off to be a turn on.


I have realized pretty quickly that there is no actual advantage to being viewed as a "gentleman" in a SC -- particularly given the possible degree to which the "gentleman' perception might be discouraging the strippers from initiating higher degrees of mileage. So, getting to the point, finally -- any suggestions for breaking this pattern?

On the other hand, to the degree that the customer must be clear about what he wants, I admit to being hesitant to explicitly request, for fear of getting the stripper-clog upside the head. Are there more subtle methods that the mileage-hounds employ?
You've got to overcome that hesitation. Believe it or not, these girls are more accomidating than you think they are. Granted, you're not going to bat 1.000, but at least you'll know where the red lights and green lights are.


I have perused at length the Collected Works of the resident "maestros of mileage" -- you know, Mr._P, AggieEd, CP, and the like -- and have gathered that most dancers willing to go the extra mile will initiate such on their own. If this is true, the customer "persona" may not play as much a role (in mileage) as I am suggesting. It could be that I just haven't found the right dancer yet, particularly in Denver, which seems to pretty much be a mid-mileage town.
You definitely ought to explore the country a bit to see what's available elsewhere. Provided that you don't get burned by an ROB out there, I think you're going to like that trip to Vegas very much.

As for Denver, while I did enjoy myself out there, it bears mentioning that my maintenence requirements aren't so hard to fulfill. While I had a variety of experiences out there, I really can't recall seeing a gal who elected to push the envelope the way I have in other places.

By your previous posts, it sounds as though you're bringing a sizable tiproll into these places. Your problem perhaps is that you are parting with it too easily in exchange for "satisfactory" dances. Start using that tiproll as leverage. Doing multiple sales and giving additional tips for going that extra mile tend to help grease the wheel a bit. Being a gentleman in the process will then work in your favor, not against it.

Nicolina
06-04-2006, 03:36 PM
Such statements set the alarm bells to ringing, as they indicate that a) I am giving off white-knight vibe (they think I want to be described as a gentleman) and b) I didn't make them work as hard for their $ as others do (the "gentleman" statements being tantamount to an expression of thanks).

There is some truth to this. As for (a) -- I'm curious as to why you don't WANT to be perceived as a "white knight." Is it because you believe (rightly) that this vibe will lead mercenary hustlers to peg you as a potential hard-core PL-type regular? Or is it because you just don't have any knight in shining armor delusions and you therefore don't like being perceived as if you do?

Honestly, IF you are the kind of customer who seeks to cultivate pseudo-relationships with charming strippers (i.e. "friendships" with a platonic OTC component, and the hint that there could be sex if you really wanted it...and if she wasn't just getting over her last bad relationship, or in the middle of trauma therapy, or a single mom with no time for a serious relationship, or whatever SS she feeds you)...well, THEN you may actually want to give off the white knight vibe. The girls who are good at cultivating and manipulating OTC regulars will find you....and those girls do tend to be fascinating creatures, exciting to be with, and often worth the price, at least for awhile....

If it's just that you don't have a thing about damsels in distress, that's cool. Strippers do tire of being perceived this way, too. I'd have to know more about your communication style, though, to offer suggestions on how to alter the vibe you're giving off....


I think most of the misunderstanding (LOL) derives from the fact that I am not a groper. For a range of reasons, Dayzed does not seek to probe or pester the more sensitive anatomical areas of his stripper companions. Dancer-to-Dayzed contact, on the other hand? Yes, please. Bring it on. With extreme prejudice.

It may be that "gentleman" really is just a euphemism for "guy who doesn't mercilessly maul my naughty bits and compulsively proposition me (with a low-ball figure, no less) for the duration of every dance." If your home club is full-contact, this is probably the case. So don't take the "gentleman" slur too personally ;). In fact...


I have realized pretty quickly that there is no actual advantage to being viewed as a "gentleman" in a SC -- particularly given the possible degree to which the "gentleman' perception might relieve the strippers from any inclination to initiate higher mileage.

Okay, I would beg to differ on this. (And PLEASE don't get TOO started on the subject! ::) :-* luv ya sweetie!)

I always found that, in a medium-contact club, I could relax far more with a non-grabby guy, and he would invariably get a much hotter dance from me than a guy who was bending the rules of the club or repeatedly pushing my personal boundaries. In fact, there's almost a reverse psychology thing that comes into play, I think: If I had a good rapport with a customer, I often found that the less he tried to push my limits, the more I would push my own (and the club's) boundaries. }:D

Don't tell anyone I told you that, though.

Of course, a guy who really wanted two-way contact would be unsatisfied with my performance. But it sounds like you're interested in one-way contact. So...I'd say "gentleman" is the way to go to get your best dance. Depends on the girl, though--you gotta find a conscientious stripper who enjoys her job and is inspired by a considerate, well-behaved customer to give a really hot one-way-contact lapdance....

just a few thoughts.

[quote]... the resident "maestros of mileage"... [quote]

:rotfl:
oh. that is classic.

sportsfanonsw
06-04-2006, 03:55 PM
Point taken Nik. I'm much too new to be offending certain sensibilities.

I'll abbreviate my suggestion to this: Watch the early Bond flicks. Use his behavior towards women as a model for being a gentleman and all will be well. ;)

Nicolina
06-04-2006, 04:01 PM
^ooh. who's got the popcorn?

mr_punk
06-04-2006, 04:09 PM
Although still inchoate, I believe my junkie career has progressed to the point that a few emerging trends can be discerned. One is that virtually all of the SS to which I am subjected (particularly during and post-LD) revolves around some permutation of the "you're such a gentleman" idea. You know -- "such a pleasure to dance for you, after all the pigs today"; "you seem so genuine and gentle"; yada yada. Such statements set the alarm bells to ringing, as they indicate that a) I am giving off white-knight vibe (they think I want to be described as a gentleman) and b) I didn't make them work as hard for their $ as others do (the "gentleman" statements being tantamount to an expression of thanks).first of all, if you're not into the whole ego stroke/SS thing. don't listen, pay attention or read too much into what strippers say. instead, pay attention to her actions. otherwise, you'll drive yourself crazy. incessant and sometimes flaky, babbling is part of a stripper's scthick. you'll keep your sanity, if you just let it go in one ear and right out the other.

I have realized pretty quickly that there is no actual advantage to being viewed as a "gentleman" in a SC -- particularly given the possible degree to which the "gentleman' perception might relieve the strippers from any inclination to initiate higher mileage.sure. look, for many strippers, it's about minimum effort/maximum reward. so, if she sees an advantage to where she can get over on you by doing as little work as possible. yes, you are correct. she will press that advantage. however, don't take it personal. it's just business.

So, getting to the point, finally -- any suggestions for breaking this pattern?it's time for a reality check, son.

I have perused at length the Collected Works of the resident "maestros of mileage" -- you know, Mr._P, AggieEd, CP, and the like -- and have gathered that most dancers willing to go the extra mile will initiate such on their own.no, that's not necessarily true. some customers can and do initiate proceedings and are successful at it. there are a lot of variables at work...YMMV.

It could be that I just haven't found the right dancer yet, particularly in Denver, which seems to pretty much be a mid-mileage town.case in point: that's a variable that could work against you.

On the other hand, to the degree that the customer must be clear about what he wants, I admit to being hesitant to explicitly request, for fear of getting the stripper-clog upside the head.DC is correct. get over it. look, they're sex workers. they get all kinds of perverse requests and many of them will accommodate you. after all, they do want your money.

sportsfanonsw
06-04-2006, 04:59 PM
I'm not sure where on this site I read this, but I recall seeing the dictum "the dancer always chooses and leads" or words to that effect. I find this to be preposterous.

In my view, men should always be choosing their partners from among those that tacitly offer themselves. Of course the woman always has a final veto power, but so does a man.

Asking for permission is weak and baiting a "no" as a response. Only sluts and whores say "yes". Being literal robs her of her instinct to be coy. Most men learn to play this game in high school, but apparently not all of them.

dayzed
06-04-2006, 06:20 PM
I agree w/ overall comments of dc and Mr._P, I recognize that YMMV, and I realize that I need to try a few different approaches to figure out what works.
Me thinks you're having a little confusion with the terminology. Being genuinely nice does not make one a "white knight", and being a white knight is not being nice, nor genuine... some deluded promise of the same money she is making for practically sitting on her assI have had several strippers tell me about their tough time raising the kids, etc. (interspersed among the "gentleman" nuggets). Two in the last week told me their husbands just passed away (!). These comments lead me to believe that I was emanating a white-knight vibe but maybe I am misusing the phrase. Certainly nowhere have I have given the sense that it's okay to just sit on their asses. The dances have been reasonable mileage; I'm just looking for the dancer-to-PL contact to raise a few notches more.
doc-catfish Your problem perhaps is that you are parting with it too easily in exchange for "satisfactory" dances. Start using that tiproll as leverage. Take this experience from last night (read no further if annoyed by explicit descriptions): first LD commenced w/ reasonably heavy but on-off grinding. Second LD: more varied grinding positions, uptick in grinding frequency. Third: nipple biting (through my shirt), occasional stick brushing. Fourth: shirt raised, kissing of chest and stomach. Fifth: ear biting, face-kissing.

This lady smartly and systematically increased the mileage on a per-dance basis. However, the essential mileage I was looking for had not appeared and 5 seemed a sufficient discovery period. Using my tiproll, as dc suggests, I could have dropped comment to the effect that the dances would continue provided she engage in stick-shifting and completely cease the on-off, but--
doc-catfish One reason that I don't grope is that I want my entertainer to be comfortable with what she is doing.
Nicolina I always found that, in a medium-contact club, I could relax far more with a non-grabby guy, and he would invariably get a much hotter dance from me than a guy who was bending the rules of the club or repeatedly pushing my personal boundaries. If I had a good rapport with a customer, I often found that the less he tried to push my limits, the more I would push my own (and the club's) boundaries.
-- I have innate sense that a request for higher mileage could be seen by the dancer as the verbal equivalent to groping, w/ same effect of removing her from her comfort zone and reducing the "rapport" as Nicolina put it (and accordant mileage).

And I admit to fearing the stripper-clog upside the head figuratively as well as literally. Equally uncomfortable to the noggin-thrashing would be a look of total revulsion and disgust which says, "how could you ask (or imply) that, you worm." Of course, I better get over this fear if I want to become a card-carrying PL. }:D


Nicolina I'm curious as to why you don't WANT to be perceived as a "white knight." Is it because you believe (rightly) that this vibe will lead mercenary hustlers to peg you as a potential hard-core PL-type regular? Or is it because you just don't have any knight in shining armor delusions?Well, I have no shining-armor delusions (and no interest in OTC, platonic or otherwise), but I don't much care whether I am perceived as having these intentions. I only care in regard to the potential impact of this perception on the stripper's immediate performance. Fear being that the "gentlemanly" vibe recuses them from any obligation to higher-mileage activities.

Almost as if they are really saying, "look, your non-groping approach has enabled us to establish a certain mode of interaction, and I'm hammering home this "gentleman" SS in order to preserve the existing mileage parameters" IOW "nice guys" finish last and buddy it's too late, you already established yourself as nice guy.

sportsfanonsw Asking for permission is weak and baiting a "no" as a response. Only sluts and whores say "yes". Being literal robs her of her instinct to be coy. Most men learn to play this game in high school, but apparently not all of them.I don't know if this is meant as some juvenile dig at me, or the author(s) of the "dancer chooses" dictum, but IMO the attempted application of this philosophy to the SC environment suggests a very naive view of that environment. I doubt there are many dancers for whom the opportunity to adopt a feminine "coyness" is the key to ascending to a next level of mileage. I'm not trying to find a girlfriend or get into some coed's pants. I'm trying to conduct a business transaction, which involves pleasure and gratification but is ultimately money-based. Fortunately there are participants at this site willing to indulge a newb's ramblings and help him cultivate a mode of behavior and approach commensurate with his transactional objectives.

sportsfanonsw
06-04-2006, 06:44 PM
I doubt there are many dancers for whom the opportunity to adopt a feminine "coyness" is the key to ascending to a next level of mileage. I'm not trying to find a girlfriend or get into some coed's pants. I'm trying to conduct a business transaction, which involves pleasure and gratification but is ultimately money-based. Fortunately there are participants at this site willing to indulge a newb's ramblings and help him cultivate a mode of behavior and approach commensurate with his transactional objectives.

So you want to get to "the next base," if you will, with a girl that does not proclaim or believe herself to be a whore. ... but for a price.

Look up "coy" in the dictionary. It's how a gentleman politely describes a young lady's denial. Good luck with your transactional analysis. If you want a menu, go to a whorehouse. Women like to have excuses for bad behavior. "I was drunk"; "He was really cute"; "He reminded me of Chuck...I couldn't help myself." I doubt you'll find many non-self proclaimed prostitutes that will flat out bargain sex for cash. Besides, unless you want to make her feel like a whore, why would you do that?

dayzed
06-04-2006, 06:59 PM
Women like to have excuses for bad behavior. "I was drunk"; "He was really cute"; "He reminded me of Chuck...I couldn't help myself." So you're equating the conditions which lead "civilian" women to engage in "bad behavior," like hooking up w/ someone they hardly know, w/ the impulses that lead strippers to raise mileage levels? Maybe in the occasional instance this is true but I certainly don't buy it as a universal correllation.
Besides, unless you want to make her feel like a whore, why would you do that?Exactly -- I don't. No more than I want to feel like a "john." I'm not interested in OTC, FS, or anything really approaching those levels; if it was that simple there would have been no reason for this thread.

It's all about shades of gray, different levels of mileage, and means of maximizing one's SC experience without hopelessly blurring the lines between escort and dancer. (Some will say those lines are blurred with any kind of high mileage activity; it's all part of the debate.)


Look up "coy" in the dictionary. It's how a gentleman politely describes a young lady's denial.I don't want to get into a flame war, but the entire essence of the term "coy" is grounded in a kind of playfulness or evasiveness which would not be found in the approach of a stripper who is focused and serious about earning her money. These are the words of a man who seems to have bought hook, line and sinker the illusory SC simulacrum of "actual" social interaction.

All Good Things
06-04-2006, 07:02 PM
I'll abbreviate my suggestion to this: Watch the early Bond flicks. Use his behavior towards women as a model for being a gentleman and all will be well. ;)

Yes, well, there is a reason for this avatar, of course. Nic once told me, "Sweetie, your avatar fits you perfectly." And I love her for it. Well, that and about a billion other things -- intellect, creativity, humor, compassion, intensity, raw sexual energy and the most fabulous ass that you could ever even imagine -- it justs makes you want to roll over and howl at the moon.


I'm not sure where on this site I read this, but I recall seeing the dictum "the dancer always chooses and leads" or words to that effect. I find this to be preposterous.

It's mine. And I stand by it. But I think you may have misunderstood the context.

As a customer in the club -- and strictly operating as a customer -- you obviously have the privilege of choice, like any other consumer does in any other commercial environment.

The "dancer always chooses and leads," however, applies to any area outside of your narrow status as a customer. Examples where the dancer chooses and you, as a gentleman, should wait for her to make that choice: offering a cell number, asking you to walk her to her car, setting up a dinner with some of the dancers, being invited to a dancer's birthday party, being invited to dinner by yourself, hanging out at one of the dancer's houses after work.

You get the idea.

Oh, and never, ever let a dancer light her own cigarette. Or buy them, for that matter. Or buy her own drink. Or buy her own anything. See why Nic, in her never-ending brilliance, said not to get me started on this? ;)

sportsfanonsw
06-04-2006, 07:17 PM
I don't want to get into a flame war, but your definition of "coy" is simply inaccurate. The entire essence of the term "coy" is grounded in a kind of playfulness or evasiveness which would not be found in the approach of a stripper who is focused and serious about earning her money.
By "politely describes" I meant used as a euphamism.

"I just want you to know, I never, ever, do this....I...I..." (she then proceeds to blow you). You give her generous money. Coyness meets whoredom.

And of course what Nicolina said I'm sure is soooo true. Being totally submissive will get you everywhere. Right.


TOO: You might want to take a little early Bond refresher course. I can't recall Bond behaving with such supplication to any of the Bond girls.

It's all just for laughs. As I see it a strip club is shits and giggles. Transactional analysis and all this microscopic examination seems absurd.

dayzed
06-04-2006, 07:41 PM
"I just want you to know, I never, ever, do this....I...I..." (she then proceeds to blow you). You give her generous money. Coyness meets whoredom.Personally I would wonder whether this "coyness" wasn't just SS designed to make you feel that the technique you "learned in high school" worked to perfection -- before you were relieved of your money, of course.

But hey, based upon the overall tenor of your comments, maybe this is something you work to great effect in the SC. Perhaps I am over-thinking it all, and just need to be a bit more naturalistic in my dealings w/ strippers.

All Good Things
06-04-2006, 07:50 PM
^ I'm terribly sorry to hear about your parents. And your other close relatives. The only thing that broke my own parents' habit was long hospital stays and the prohibition on smoking around oxygen. Meanwhile, alcohol pretty much tore them up. You can imagine the joy that brings to your childhood.

On the other hand, I do feel that I'm obliged to resist the temptation to make others' choices for them. If some people choose to live for the moment -- and want to take their genetic chances with proven carcinogens -- that is their right. Their choice is made long before the search for the lighter begins. And I've never known the lack of a lighter -- or a match -- to dissuade anybody for more than a few seconds.

sportsfanonsw
06-04-2006, 08:10 PM
But hey, based upon the overall tenor of your comments, maybe this is something you work to great effect in the SC. Perhaps I am over-thinking it all, and just need to be a bit more naturalistic in my dealings w/ strippers.

I don't work anything to great effect. I'm just willing to let people do or think whatever crap gets them through the day. We all compromise ourselves from time to time, and looking at it under the transactional analysis microscope doesn't make it look any prettier.

mr_punk
06-04-2006, 08:21 PM
I have had several strippers tell me about their tough time raising the kids, etc. (interspersed among the "gentleman" nuggets). Two in the last week told me their husbands just passed away (!).LOL...what are the odds? oh, be sure to stop by the sc next week. it's "my-(insert loved one here)-needs-an-organ-transplant" week. those stories are always a hoot.

These comments lead me to believe that I was emanating a white-knight vibe but maybe I am misusing the phrase.yes, you're misusing the phrase. look, all they're doing is simply trying to create a false sense of imtimacy. they feed you false tidbits of information while stroking your ego (ie: you're such a gentleman. <looks very sad> it's rare that i meet that kind of customer). in theory, you're supposed to suck down the kool-aid, under the impression that's she's being genuine and you're "special" or "different" than the other customers. it's SOP in any sc. you can't avoid it, but you can ignore it.

The impetus for this thread is really that I was torn between speaking up (as suggested by Dr._P and dc) and being as respectful as possible, verbally and physically (see: Nicolina) in order to attain the highest mileage.well, as long as you're not starting off the sentence with, "Yo! Biatch". there's no need to worry whether or not you're being respectful enough. frankly, i think some sc customers can be a hinderance to themselves with all this hand-wringing. instead of just kicking back, putting their feet on the table and and letting the chips fall where they may. they're too overly concerned about about causing offense.

Equally uncomfortable to the noggin-thrashing would be a look of total revulsion and disgust which says, "how could you ask that, you worm." Of course, I better get over this fear if I want to become a card-carrying PL.}:DLOL..there was this guy who posted on here whom, unbeknownst to the stripper, would slap on a condom and pop (sometimes, twice in the same visit!) in his pants during a dance. anyway, the stripper found out about it and called him a "pervert". so, i'll tell you the same thing i told him. if you're worried about being called a degenerate pervert by a stripper. there's no need to worry. if you're in a sc, it's a given.

Susan Wayward
06-04-2006, 08:31 PM
It may be that "gentleman" really is just a euphemism for "guy who doesn't mercilessly maul my naughty bits and compulsively proposition me (with a low-ball figure, no less) for the duration of every dance."

<snip/>

I always found that, in a medium-contact club, I could relax far more with a non-grabby guy, and he would invariably get a much hotter dance from me than a guy who was bending the rules of the club or repeatedly pushing my personal boundaries. In fact, there's almost a reverse psychology thing that comes into play, I think: If I had a good rapport with a customer, I often found that the less he tried to push my limits, the more I would push my own (and the club's) boundaries. }:D


And that is the pure truth, 100% reflective of my own behavior . . . except sometimes a grabby guy with a pocket full of Benjamins gets a hotter dance, too. Funny thing, though, the grabby and the spendy rarely go together . . .

dayzed
06-04-2006, 09:52 PM
We all compromise ourselves from time to time, and looking at it under the transactional analysis microscope doesn't make it look any prettier.Not really concerned about the prettiness of lack thereof; just trying to figure out how it all works. It's all fine and dandy for you to liken strippers to civilians and advocate traditional interactive modes, such as coyness. Personally I don't expect normal behaviorisms from a woman who is obligated to ask, "Shall I continue?" at regular 3.5-minute intervals.

I view strippers as occupying a unique notch along the female continuum, and my experiences thus far suggest that they operate with their own set of rules and rituals. I view the chief value of this site as enabling like-minded hobbyists to gain inside angles to these rituals and work the clubs to optimal effect. (Certainly this should be true to the degree that Blue is Yang to Pink's Ying, given large # of Pink hustling threads predicated on false pretenses. "Shits and giggles" indeed.)


Mr.Punk frankly, i think some sc customers can be a hinderance to themselves with all this hand-wringing.I'm sure this is true. I probably could have distilled my entire first post down to a single question -- "does categorization as a "gentleman" by strip club definition tend to dovetail with a plateauing of one's mileage, such that less gentlemanly behavior may then become the only effective avenue to higher mileage"? The answers have certainly helped gain insight into this question.


Susan Wayward And that is the pure truth, 100% reflective of my own behavior . . . except sometimes a grabby guy with a pocket full of Benjamins gets a hotter dance, too. Funny thing, though, the grabby and the spendy rarely go together . . .I'll phrase this rhetorically, since it has a rhetorical question's chance of being addressed :D ... I wonder exactly how much hotter these hot dances actually become, when the stripper is rewarding the well-behaved PL for his gentlemanly behavior. When leaving the LD area, must the gentleman walk or run to the nearest bathroom?

Yekhefah
06-05-2006, 12:12 AM
I always tell my customers when they start to get grabby, "Gentlemen get better dances." They do, too. I get very turned on by a hot lapdance, and that means you sit there and relish it without getting in my way. If I'm too afraid to get close to you because I don't know what you're going to do with your mouth or hands, then you get an air dance. If I trust you, then you will leave with a big smile.

evan_essence
06-05-2006, 01:21 AM
Five possible answers to your question, which basically is, am I doing something to interfere with the level of contact I'm getting?

A) Yes, something you're doing is interfering. So try expressing more clearly what you're after, in a non-demanding but assertive sort of way that fits your style. Something like: "I sure liked it when you _____; the hotter that gets, the more money I'm going to spend," or "Oh, god, I just want you to drain my wallet by being as nasty as you can be; that would make me happier than anything." (The sound of that last one gives me goosebumps and a desire to return to strippering.)

B) No, it's nothing you're doing particularly wrong. Perhaps it's the dancers you're patronizing who have reached their personal boundaries. Nothing you change is going to make a difference. Switch to a different dancer.

C) No, not only are the dancers you're patronizing capped at their boundaries, but the club is an environment that discourages pushing that cap. It's a low to mid-mileage club and the mold is cast strong. Switch to a different club.

D) No, and the whole town is capped at those boundaries. Switch to a different town.

E) Yes, you're just too nice and unfortunately, you'll never change the situation ever, regardless of where you go. Even the biggest slut on the forum here would instantly put you in the friend zone. It's all your mother's fault, dammit. Give up and find a new hobby. Come to think of it, have you considered the priesthood or going gay, or both?

-Ev

kdogg247
06-05-2006, 06:55 AM
Dayzed - you bring up a good point. You cannot just go into the club and start groping at random, because you may run into a low mileage dancer such as those that populate the pink side. Unpleasant things will happen in such a situation.

I would recommend trying approaches B or C from evan_essence's post. The odds are you'll eventually find a dancer that suits you.

CarGuy
06-05-2006, 06:55 AM
Ahhh...good thread...I am the same way..."nice guy", "gentleman"...blah blah blah. I have found that by not being grabby the girls do tend to push their limits...and sometimes yours. It really depends on the dancer. I can relate to exactly how you are feeling, and I think you just need to get a new girl.

What kind of mileage do you want in the club? Do you really want to pop in your pants during a lap dance?

dayzed
06-05-2006, 12:28 PM
E) Yes, you're just too nice and unfortunately, you'll never change the situation ever, regardless of where you go. Even the biggest slut on the forum here would instantly put you in the friend zone. It's all your mother's fault, dammit. Give up and find a new hobby. Come to think of it, have you considered the priesthood or going gay, or both?

-Ev
Why are all the wittiest strippers retired?


CarGuy What kind of mileage do you want in the club? Do you really want to pop in your pants during a lap dance?I'll refrain from answering by way of preserving whatever shreds of dignity remain. (Yes, I know, that cause is hopeless...)

aggieed
06-05-2006, 04:42 PM
FWIW, I get the whole "gentleman" thing all the time as well. Gives me a good chuckle. :D

Nicolina
06-05-2006, 08:04 PM
I only care in regard to the potential impact of this perception on the stripper's immediate performance. Fear being that the "gentlemanly" vibe recuses them from any obligation to higher-mileage activities.

Almost as if they are really saying, "look, your non-groping approach has enabled us to establish a certain mode of interaction, and I'm hammering home this "gentleman" SS in order to preserve the existing mileage parameters" IOW "nice guys" finish last and buddy it's too late, you already established yourself as nice guy.

Again, this has not been my experience at all....it's funny, though, because it reminds me of the phenomenon wherein a stripper who is "too" nice, "too" down-to-earth, "too" smart or "too" sweet will be told by certain sort of guy that he "can't" get a dance from her because he "respects her too much." As a dancer, you learn to avoid garnering this kind of "respect." I guess it's a madonna/whore thing...but I don't think it necessarily works in reverse, y'know? Especially not in SC.

Like, even though I'm pretty damn submissive in RL, I wasn't really comfortable in the stripper-customer interaction unless I felt like I was in control. And even though (ok, I admit it) I have been known to be more attracted to arrogant jerks than to "nice guys" in RL--especially when I was younger--I did NOT appreciate arrogant jerks in SC. It's a totally different thing--and sportsfan seems to be conflating RL and SC. Big mistake.

I stand by my assertion that, in a SC, as a customer whose goal is to get a decent lapdance, you catch more bees with honey (or however that saying goes.) Susan's post makes me think that I'm not crazy to believe this. Yekhefeh, too, backs me up on this; her post describes my own sentiments and behavior exactly.

That said, if you’re not happy with the service you're getting from a particular provider, feel free to politely suggest that she change her tactics a little. (It'll take practice, I think, to find a way to do this tactfully. But forge ahead--really, if a girl is easily offended by such suggestions, she probably shouldn't be working as a stripper. And you shouldn't be patronizing her if she's not giving you what you want.)

I'm not sure how far you want the girl to go—you said you’re not interested in FS, but you’ve declined to state whether you desire a happy ending in VIP, or how such ending (if desired) would preferably be achieved…

Whatever it is you want, I'm pretty sure mr. p. will tell you (and I'll agree) that if you're not getting it from your friendly neighborhood sex worker, you should move on and find someone who will provide it.

Whether or not you can get it may depend more on the club standards than on the girl herself. The contact levels I provided definitely changed according to the accepted standards of the club. It's not so much a matter of morals as a desire to avoid having some biatch claw out your eyeballs. :P

(p.s. I wrote most of this last night, but I see now that Ev in her infinite wisdom has summed it up better than I ever could.)

mr_punk
06-06-2006, 04:58 AM
I stand by my assertion that, in a SC, as a customer whose goal is to get a decent lapdance, you catch more bees with honey (or however that saying goes.) Susan's post makes me think that I'm not crazy to believe this. Yekhefeh, too, backs me up on this; her post describes my own sentiments and behavior exactly.sure, assuming the stripper isn't going into her scripted routine, overinflating her abilities, etc. now, i'm sure you ladies are always focused and never phone it in. however, it's been known to happen.

That said, if you’re not happy with the service you're getting from a particular provider, feel free to politely suggest that she change her tactics a little. (It'll take practice, I think, to find a way to do this tactfully. But forge ahead--really, if a girl is easily offended by such suggestions, she probably shouldn't be working as a stripper. And you shouldn't be patronizing her if she's not giving you what you want.)
i don't even bother with tact. then again, i put the word "ass" in "class". still, it hasn't stopped me from getting what i want. however, i agree. if a sex worker is that easily offended by the idea of a customer's perversion. she shouldn't be a stripper or go find a whipped PL to pull that kind of uber diva act.

Whether or not you can get it may depend more on the club standards than on the girl herself. The contact levels I provided definitely changed according to the accepted standards of the club. It's not so much a matter of morals as a desire to avoid having some biatch claw out your eyeballs.LOL.....what's the old saying? it's only cheating if you get caught. the funny thing about that sometimes, empty platitude of dressing room solidarity when it comes to "club standards". in practice, one stripper doesn't necessarily perform the exact same dance as the other stripper. which is why the stripper who grinds for 10 seconds is ready to claw the eyeballs out of the stripper who grinds for minute.

dayzed
06-06-2006, 09:47 AM
sure, assuming the stripper isn't going into her scripted routine, overinflating her abilities, etc.
When getting a first LD from a stripper, how many dances do you (or any other junkies) give her to reach/reveal her contact/performance ceiling?

kdogg247
06-06-2006, 11:00 AM
I say two. Three at the most.

doc-catfish
06-06-2006, 11:14 AM
When getting a first LD from a stripper, how many dances do you (or any other junkies) give her to reach/reveal her contact/performance ceiling?
If she sucks, well...one.

And it should be stated this contact/performance ceiling fluctuates depending upon a number of variables not even related to what the customer is spending. Some guys like to go near the end of the month and start their festivities with a round of shots (two for her and none for him) for a reason.

I'm not sure why we even say, "your mileage may vary", because the way things are in clubs anymore it's almost a due certainty that it will vary, even with a well established performer. Case in point.
http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66921

And as much as I barked about the lack of consistency in that thread, I now sometimes wonder if its really the variance in our SC experiences that keeps us coming back like crack addicts looking for their next fix. Often what I at least felt was a very good trip usually occurs on the heels of what I thought was a very lousy one, and vice versa.

Mastridonicus
06-06-2006, 01:42 PM
Really, who's trying?

what's the underlying motive here? Go after what you want. Stop with the making excuses and call it trying.

"Gentlemen" are nice guys, with a backbone.

Call me crazy, but when you go anywhere with the intent of having a good time....odds are, you will. You "TRY" to have a good time by acting a certain way, and you risk not having a good time. I garauntee a good time by being myself and meticulously choosing my company.

Casual Observer
06-06-2006, 01:58 PM
It may be that "gentleman" really is just a euphemism for "guy who doesn't mercilessly maul my naughty bits and compulsively proposition me (with a low-ball figure, no less) for the duration of every dance." If your home club is full-contact, this is probably the case. So don't take the "gentleman" slur too personally . In fact...

I have to agree here. However, as with so many other facets of life, it certainly does help if you smell, look and speak attractively. Not being a contact-fiend myself, generally speaking, I seem to get much more voluntary mileage by not actually doing anything other than sitting there--my SC tour in FL with Mast certainly bore this out; everytime I told a dancer to not do something, she did it anyway.


When getting a first LD from a stripper, how many dances do you (or any other junkies) give her to reach/reveal her contact/performance ceiling?

Unless she's clearly terrible and doing her grocery list in her head, I have a firm limit of two dances, and that's being fairly generous.

FourWinns
06-06-2006, 03:48 PM
Lean back and enjoy the SC experience - grabbing, feeling, chatting, etc. - until she says stop, slaps you, leaves, passes you to another dancer, calls a bouncer or whatever makes YOU feel uncomfortable - hopefully before a knee in the balls!

Nicolina
06-07-2006, 08:25 PM
And of course what Nicolina said I'm sure is soooo true. Being totally submissive will get you everywhere. Right.

It's not about being submissive. It's about being nonchalant. A customer who seems coolly in control of his desires and impulses is respected in an atmosphere where so many guys feel it's okay to lose control and succumb to their compulsions.

A guy who seems appropriately appreciative but not overly impressed by us is, frankly, a bit of a challenge.

Of course, a big load of cash works wonders, too.


It's all just for laughs. As I see it a strip club is shits and giggles. Transactional analysis and all this microscopic examination seems absurd.

Well then. You've definitely come to the wrong place.

easy_e
06-08-2006, 07:37 AM
It's not about being submissive. It's about being nonchalant. A customer who seems coolly in control of his desires and impulses is respected in an atmosphere where so many guys feel it's okay to lose control and succumb to their compulsions.

A guy who seems appropriately appreciative but not overly impressed by us is, frankly, a bit of a challenge.

Of course, a big load of cash works wonders, too.



This seems to be true of women in general as well, but it's hard to be strong sometimes, and easy to fall under the spell of an intoxicating woman.

Mastridonicus
06-08-2006, 08:21 AM
That's what makes a true "gentleman" a rare find.

Docido
06-08-2006, 04:56 PM
The clubs I frequent are high contact with mostly local clientele. In that kind of environment I've learned to take a Zen approach to clubbing. Don't push the limits, but let the limits come to you. In other words, cede control to the dancer. She will relax, and because you’ll be a pleasant variation from the octopus-like custies doing the grope-a-dope, take it right to the limit and often beyond..

I realize this approach is diametrically opposed to the modus operendi of certain posters, but it’s worked for me. Keep in mind that I’m not a strict mileage hound. So to each his own. :P

mr_punk
06-08-2006, 10:02 PM
When getting a first LD from a stripper, how many dances do you (or any other junkies) give her to reach/reveal her contact/performance ceiling?pick a number, any number. when a customer is getting a LD from an unknown dancer. the PL should constantly ask himself, if the dancer is doing something for him. if the answer is no. the solution is simple.

I'm not sure why we even say, "your mileage may vary", because the way things are in clubs anymore it's almost a due certainty that it will vary, even with a well established performer. Case in point.well, that's not YMMV. that's just plain laziness on the stripper's part. IMO, YMMV applies to unknown strippers. an ATF or even a rotation are not unknown entities.

And as much as I barked about the lack of consistency in that thread, I now sometimes wonder if its really the variance in our SC experiences that keeps us coming back like crack addicts looking for their next fix.if my experiences were that inconsistent across the board. i wouldn't go to sc. i think any customer can find a consistent stripper as far as service is concerned. however, he has to be willing to train them properly.

easy_e
06-09-2006, 09:36 AM
. i think any customer can find a consistent stripper as far as service is concerned. however, he has to be willing to train them properly.

Care to elaborate on the proper training of a stripper?

dayzed
06-09-2006, 03:00 PM
Really, who's trying?

what's the underlying motive here? Go after what you want. Stop with the making excuses and call it trying.This is a great point. However, I think when you are first starting out, there is a certain "voyage of self-discovery" aspect as you try to figure out what exactly it is that you want.

The other day, I think I pegged an extras girl in a local club. It was an afternoon, slow, most of the dancers were idle but one of the girls had a steady stream of enthusiastic visitors who would enter the club and make a beeline direct for her, then disappear to VIP for large chunks of time.

I had heard rumors of afternoon extras action at that club; to be completely honest, that was why I went. But, when it came down to it, I didn't get a dance from her. I felt too bad for the other girls who were sitting around w/ no customers, and I was uncomfortable w/ the "assembly-line" feel of the succession of men. I got a bunch of dances with another girl, strictly mid-mileage, had a fun time, and got to leave w/ added bonus of feeling kind of good about myself. (don't laugh)

Whether I will do the same next time, who knows. Anyway my point is that I hear what you are saying but may just not have reached that comfort zone yet.

mr_punk
06-09-2006, 09:42 PM
Care to elaborate on the proper training of a stripper?it's right here (http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67124). don't let the title fool you. it's also about how to get consistent performances out of strippers. in short, if you do it early and often. you shouldn't have any problems down the road.

I felt too bad for the other girls who were sitting around w/ no customers, and I was uncomfortable w/ the "assembly-line" feel of the succession of men. I got a bunch of dances with another girl, strictly mid-mileage, had a fun time, and got to leave w/ added bonus of feeling kind of good about myself. (don't laugh)LOL..ahem..sorry, i couldn't help it. that's funny.

Whether I will do the same next time, who knows. Anyway my point is that I hear what you are saying but may just not have reached that comfort zone yet.i see. well, hopefully you'll drop that sentimental view of strippers as temple virgins or the salvation army and you can enjoy yourself.

dayzed
06-09-2006, 10:58 PM
i see. well, hopefully you'll drop that sentimental view of strippers as temple virgins or the salvation army and you can enjoy yourself.Ha - maybe. Even if I were to try, it might be hard to break into the rotation. I mean this gal had her visitors arriving at regular intervals, and there seemed to be little lag time b/n "appointments".

azcustomer
06-09-2006, 11:18 PM
One dance quickly tells you where she's willing to go. It's not how far she goes in the first dance, it's the elevation you gain during it.

I feel so sad for those dancers I see who try so hard to impress me with their "looks" and "classiness" that I'm one of those lame customers who actually buys a second dance out of pity. I am so sorry to the gals who actually try at their jobs.

Keep your hands to yourself, try to establish the opportunity for the dancer to create her own fantasy about you, and quickly give her the steering wheel. If you're excited during the first ride and could care less about where you're going, then you have your answer. If you're left wondering where you're going, then thank her, pay her the $10 bucks and forget she exists.

evan_essence
06-14-2006, 08:40 PM
LOL..ahem..sorry, i couldn't help it. that's funny.Be nice.:wife: :Wap:

-Ev

FBR
06-14-2006, 09:07 PM
Ha - maybe. Even if I were to try, it might be hard to break into the rotation. I mean this gal had her visitors arriving at regular intervals, and there seemed to be little lag time b/n "appointments".

It takes a while and is expensive but you have to establish yourself at your club where you automatically get to go to the head of the line.

FBR

easy_e
06-15-2006, 07:27 PM
^^^^^
Or have a working relationship with the waitress and have her call you when Miss Popular is free. The really good ones are usually full time VIP residents, for obvious reasons. It's worth a little coordinating to experience their talents. Being known as a good tipper and a decent spender has a lot to do with it, too.