View Full Version : What the fuck is wrong with strippers these days?
Pretty_Penny
09-12-2006, 06:18 PM
i would have come over to see you. *shrug* most of the girls i know would. i think you just hit them on a night when no motivated girls were working. :/ it's happened to me when i've been a customer. the last time my bf and i went out we spend the entire night practically begging girls to come see us. we had money, were tipping really well, and are both attractive. i saw most of the girls we were trying for just sitting around or spending time in the dressing room. it was frustrating.
xdamage
09-12-2006, 08:55 PM
iit's happened to me when i've been a customer. the last time my bf and i went out we spend the entire night practically begging girls to come see us. we had money, were tipping really well, and are both attractive. i saw most of the girls we were trying for just sitting around or spending time in the dressing room. it was frustrating.
I've been lucky and haven't had the problem myself. Usually it's the opposite problem, dancers won't leave customers alone, but I've seen this behavior frequently. Dancers who spend the whole night hanging out with each other or at the bar, waiting for customers to come to them, or outright ignoring guys that are too shy to approach the dancers.
In your case I don't know. I'm sure you and your BF are attractive so it's not that you creeped them out. Could have been a bad night, or maybe all the dancers that were on duty weren't comfortable with the whole customers + gf/wife thing. /shrug That would seem to be fairly common combo, but I could imagine reasons why a dancer would avoid that kind of customer.
Bridgette
09-12-2006, 09:21 PM
Yeah, I'm sure most of us here are familiar with the common stripper answer: "I don't like to approach couples because there's too much drama potential there."
I usually don't approach couples unless THEY have tipped/asked me first. And even then I have still dealt with my share of crap from the women once I got there - after being asked. Uptight bitches ::) So I am still pretty leary of the situation and will skip them if a male custy has expressed interest, even if the couple has asked for a dance.
lopaw
09-12-2006, 09:33 PM
In your case I don't know. I'm sure you and your BF are attractive so it's not that you creeped them out. Could have been a bad night, or maybe all the dancers that were on duty weren't comfortable with the whole customers + gf/wife thing. /shrug That would seem to be fairly common combo, but I could imagine reasons why a dancer would avoid that kind of customer.
It's no big mystery that some dancers avoid couples like the plague (this topic has been covered quite a bit on the pink side.).
Add the"fear of couples" to the laziness/don't-give-a-shit attitude of some dancers,and it's amazing that couples ever get any attention at all. It's quite sad, really. :-\
Katrine
09-12-2006, 10:06 PM
If I'm in the club, I just proactively find the girls. BUT, I was at Palazi-ho once, with a small group. I wanted to buy my friend a dance with a girl we both thought was hot. I sent him over. He walked up to the girl (he is a polite person) at the bar. They spoke for a second, and he came back over and shrugged.
It was only 1:20 and she didn't feel like it. She had been doing jackshit from the time we got there. Once she was actually asked for a dance, she decided to go to the dressing room and call it a night an hour early. I was pretty floored, but what can I say. Within minutes a cute, bubbly little meth head eagerly took her place. ;)
GenWar
09-13-2006, 05:25 AM
QUOTE=Katrine:
Within minutes a cute, bubbly little meth head eagerly took her place. ;)
--------------------------
AH. I do so love a happy ending...
-gen
xdamage
09-13-2006, 06:58 AM
It's no big mystery that some dancers avoid couples like the plague (this topic has been covered quite a bit on the pink side.).
I rarely read the pink side, but yea, makes sense.
Yeah, I'm sure most of us here are familiar with the common stripper answer: "I don't like to approach couples because there's too much drama potential there."
I usually don't approach couples unless THEY have tipped/asked me first. And even then I have still dealt with my share of crap from the women once I got there - after being asked. Uptight bitches ::) So I am still pretty leary of the situation and will skip them if a male custy has expressed interest, even if the couple has asked for a dance.
Yep, that's what I meant by "I could imagine reasons why a dancer would avoid that kind of customer".
yoda57us
09-13-2006, 06:59 AM
one doesn't need to get involved or partake at all. still, it's there all the same. i don't think it's a big surprise to anyone here, there's a drug subculture that comes long with the sex industry. actually, the entertainment industry as a whole for that matter.
Well yes, there are people who use and people who don't. Some of them are dancers and/or entertainers. I've been working in the entertainment industry for 30 years and hanging out in strip blubs and with dancers for about 25 years. The vast majority of people I have known in either case have not been drug users. That doesn't mean that there are not plenty of users out there but the generalization that's it's a majority is something I have just never bought into.
evan_essence
09-14-2006, 12:11 AM
Speaking for myself and those like me, who are more motivated and go to work for WORK and to maximize the benefits of it, you can betcherass that making us true employees would run us out in droves!! Because 1) there is NO WAY IN HELL I, or most like me, will put up with having our productivity directly benefit some other lazy/ugly bitch and 2) there is NO WAY IN HELL I, or most like me, would put up with being limited in such a way and still get naked for it. Hell, this type of system would run out a whole lot of girls because even many of those with the employee mentality would balk at having to split her earnings with, or take similar pay to Suzy FatAss who can't sell for shit.Being an employee doesn't have to work that way. A business could structure an employee job in which incentive commissions supplement minimum salaries and tips are not redistributed. Also, promotions with higher salaries/commissions could be used as incentives to work harder. (Stop laughing, we're speaking hypothethically anyway.) However, the benefits, like sick time and health care, are usually doled out across the board, which is tantamount to redistribution of earnings, and that money has to come from somewhere, albeit some of it comes from tax breaks (haha, tax breaks to a business that currently makes its own), so the club would likely take a bigger cut of what you brought in. Therefore, even under an employee system that directly rewarded productivity, it would be dependent upon the individual's situation over the long haul as to whether it was a net gain or loss, and most exotic dancers aren't motivated by looking at the long term. (For instance, if you get chronically ill and incur tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical insurance benefits, congratulations, you're a winner.)
Also, you wouldn't have house fees or tip-outs. That's at least $250,000 in your pocket, by your own estimate.
I don't know, I'm also thinking that the whole lapdance hustle business model is growing outdated and less viable. Obviously, as there are fewer customers for it and an oversupply of dancers, what you can earn for it drops. Perhaps we're entering an era where strip clubs can survive only if they become more like regular nightclubs with diverse forms of entertainment including but not limited to nude dancing. Perhaps the hustle and lapdance are simply on their way out for the majority of the new generation of customers who just want to hang out and party, at least when it comes to clubs that aren't largely brothels.
-Ev
Bridgette
09-14-2006, 03:52 AM
Hehe. It's a nice thought that the clubs might actually structure an employee situation which is FAIR for us. But we know that's as far as that would go.
Also, if I'd been an employee all this time, I reckon that quarter million that I've paid out would've never made it into my hands in the first place. Knowing what I know of the business, I firmly believe I would've profited LESS over the years as an employee. I am sure there are plenty of girls who would profit more because they don't sell as well. I am not in any way saying I'm some crazy hot shit, but I know damn well I sell more than most and employee status would be detrimental to my bottom line, which would run me out in a heartbeat. And any other girl who sells in the upper percentages.
So if that were to happen, the "top girls" would run out in droves. One could assume that without those girls, the industry as a whole wouldn't draw as many customers, because many of those guys go specifically to see the top girls - they may buy from whomever once in the door, but it's the lure of the "top girls" that draws many of them in. So if some customers are lost, then clubs can afford to pay less, which would in turn lead to ever-decreasing club profits and dancer payscales.
There is a club here that hires the girls as employees. Lusty Lady. You know what they pay? $11/hr to start and raises up to $13. For full nudity, sexual shows and custies being able to jerk off in front of them, and even record their images without their knowledge or consent via those one-way glass booths. Now, around here, that kind of money is what receptionists earn - chics with little or no office skills who never have to remove their clothes or run the risk of getting splooged at or porn-recorded unwillingly. The job I just quit was paying me twice that. NO FUCKEN WAY would I get naked for that money - even IF I couldn't make more in clothes. I was told the reason they pay so little is due to dwindling business - that they used to pay alot more but could no longer afford it. Girls who can sell at ALL go to the strip clubs where they make alot more money. Leaving mainly the 'leftovers' that guys don't really get excited about paying to see. So the club continues to lose profits, and the girls continue to get paid less, and the cycle continues.
Now, granted this is a different type of club and different times, etc. But I submit that what's happened there is very similar to what would likely happen in a regular SC if we were all made employees. Because the girls that so many guys initially come looking for would not stick around. At least with the IC system the girls who sell get rewarded enough to stick around for a while. Which is beneficial to all because the girls who sell really well make the guys WANT to come back. Etc.
And OH HELL NO I am not interested in working in an environment that rewards laziness equal or similar to hard work. I can get that in the land of corpofuck, thanks. At least in the current system those of us with more drive get rewarded for it.
Perhaps the nightclub-esque scene where customers go to party will be the way of the future. Perhaps not. I tend to think there will always be enough pervs, hornballs, desperadoes, lonely guys and female-attention-seekers around to keep chics like me in business though ;D
xdamage
09-14-2006, 06:16 AM
Hehe. It's a nice thought that the clubs might actually structure an employee situation which is FAIR for us. But we know that's as far as that would go.
Yea, given that we agree that SC owners are often times sleezy, I'd gamble they would structure it for their own best interests.
Also, if I'd been an employee all this time, I reckon that quarter million that I've paid out would've never made it into my hands in the first place.
I'm 100% sure of that.
Knowing what I know of the business, I firmly believe I would've profited LESS over the years as an employee. I am sure there are plenty of girls who would profit more because they don't sell as well. I am not in any way saying I'm some crazy hot shit, but I know damn well I sell more than most and employee status would be detrimental to my bottom line, which would run me out in a heartbeat. And any other girl who sells in the upper percentages.
That's the outcome I also think would happen.
Jenny
09-14-2006, 07:49 AM
I dunno, I've worked as an employee, or quasi employee as a stripper - at least I've worked in environments in which the club pays me and is thus justified in exercising control over my work and stuff. I've never had to share "tips", I've never felt particularly "limited" - although I'm not exactly sure what this means. The club doesn't pay much, and you still make the majority of your money through dancing or drink commissions. I'm kind of interested, though, in where all these "top girls" are going to GO. Like being a "top girl" as a stripper does not necessarily translate into being a top girl for anything else.
I don't know; I read all these horror stories about what would happen if the clubs actually paid us, and it just doesn't match with my experience. It strikes as some kind of black-Panglossian "Oh No We've Got The Best Of All Possible Worlds" argument. As for clubs setting up unfair systems - it's not like the systems now are wildly fair.
Bridgette
09-14-2006, 04:22 PM
Well, this particular part of the discussion is pretty US-centric. I am aware that some clubs in Canada pay girls and that working conditions are rather decent. But your American counterparts, sorry to say, I do not believe would be so fair. I mean, look at what's happened in CA. There, they are legally supposed to be employees, whether the clubs like it or not, according to judgements. Clubs have been sued for charging girls illegal house fees and made to pay restitution. And guess what? Those very clubs are now charging the girls MORE THAN EVER to work - highest fees in the country by far. And they have some of the shittiest situations to deal with as well. CA is pretty much THE shithole for strippers in the US.
No, it's not exactly fair now, but at least we have some freedom to MAKE our own rewards. As employees we would most likely be limited to what the clubs want to pay us and what they want to split with us regarding dance commissions and such. That translates to a drastic paycut.
Speaking for myself, I would suck it up and go back to a $50k straight job. I am quite sure there's plenty of others like me who, in a situation where they'd be facing massive paycuts to stay in stripping, would retire, go back to a straight job, run their business, whatever. A girl who has the ambition, etc to be a top stripper earner will have the ambition to succeed at something else, wouldn't you think? I think that assuming she wouldn't is kind of insulting.
evan_essence
09-16-2006, 10:22 AM
Hehe. It's a nice thought that the clubs might actually structure an employee situation which is FAIR for us. But we know that's as far as that would go.Yeah, I know. My only point was that it's not the employee structure that's inherently the problem. It's, once again, the way it would be executed by management. I do see your point, which is actually the larger point. That dancers do better, if they choose to, under IC with mediocre management than employee paradigm with mediocre management.
And Jenny, I agree with Bridgette that you probably have it better in Canada. I'm making a sweeping generalization but I get the impression that your clubs are several years behind the U.S. in terms of deteroriating standards.
I mean, look at what's happened in CA. There, they are legally supposed to be employees, whether the clubs like it or not, according to judgements. Clubs have been sued for charging girls illegal house fees and made to pay restitution. And guess what? Those very clubs are now charging the girls MORE THAN EVER to work - highest fees in the country by far. And they have some of the shittiest situations to deal with as well. CA is pretty much THE shithole for strippers in the US.Yeah, that's what happens when they actually have to follow the law, the true costs of providing the service get factored in like at all other businesses. Slipping under the legal radar makes some tidy profits possible. That's not meant to be a finger pointy judgment since I benefited from the IC arrangement myself; just a philosophical observation.
For the life of me, I can't understand why "family values" politicians and other prudes don't catch on to this. That the clubs are routinely breaking labor laws and skirting tax declarations. I realize it varies from state to state, but I think it's safe to assume from California and Alaska that similar court rulings would be possible to get elsewhere if sought. Of course, I guess one could counter argue there's no true black and white in the law and that these issues are grey. Nevertheless, if they really wanted to crack down on SCs, they'd whip out that issue and browbeat the clubs with it. They'd regulate them to death, much like gambling, rather than using a full frontal morals assault. I think their problem with that is they think of that route as legitimizing something they don't want to be seen legitimizing. But I still say they could do a lot of damage with a strategy of enforcing labor/tax laws as they already exist.
I've diverged from the original topic just a bit, haven't I? :)
-Ev
xdamage
09-16-2006, 10:34 AM
Yeah, I know.
[good stuff clipped out]
I've diverged from the original topic just a bit, haven't I? :)
-Ev
OMG, I actually agreed 100%, completely, fully with everything Ev wrote! Something must be terribly wrong ;)
Jenny
09-16-2006, 02:54 PM
Bridg - I think assuming that every or most high earning dancers can stroll into standard $50 k jobs is naive. Dancing is a low skill job. Most straight jobs that pay 50 k aren't. Dancing requires no education, training or experience. Most straight jobs at that pay level will. And, although I personally think that dancing has at least some tranferable skills, most employers disagree. So the more time and energy one has put into dancing equals essentially into more and more blank space on a resume. However, this is a bit of an aside, since I am not really hoping to trap dancers into a failing business model because they don't have a lot of better alternatives.
Note also, I like indie status. I think all dancers are better served by pursuing indie status than employee status. But I think, as Ev pointed out that there is no inherent reason you could not "make your own rewards" and be employees. Saying that clubs would deliberately structure in a way that would be unfair - that is what they are doing NOW with indie status. There is no real reason for either of these things, and you are saying more or less, that the unfair model you are used to is better than the unfair model that you don't know. I do think approaching any attempt to "repair" the business with that kind of suspicion will make the repair impossible.
Bridgette
09-16-2006, 03:40 PM
It's not fear of something I don't know. I've worked alot as an employee - in straight jobs of course. Employees have alot less freedom by nature than ICs do. So while granted we are in a bit of an unfair situation as ICs, you can bet the clubs would make it WORSE if they had to make us employees. That's the point. YES, it would be directly due to the way mgmt would handle it - that's what I've been saying. Not that employee status is necessarily the evil of all evil, but that for strippers, with the way our mgmt handles these things, it would be.
I do not think every top earning stipper could waltz into a $50k straight job right off the bat. I DO think that the type of girl who manages to become a top earning stripper generally has the ambition to figure out how to succeed at something else if she had/wanted to. Because that DOES take some skill, ambition, etc - intangible qualities that help anyone get a little further than others. And I know I'm not the only stripper sitting on a degree, and who has the ability to sell herself into a regular job despite a lack of "legit" resume entries. I am positive that a good-selling stripper (making some generalizations of course) could do very well at a straight sales job, among other things.
xdamage
09-16-2006, 05:01 PM
So while granted we are in a bit of an unfair situation as ICs, you can bet the clubs would make it WORSE if they had to make us employees. That's the point. YES, it would be directly due to the way mgmt would handle it - that's what I've been saying. Not that employee status is necessarily the evil of all evil, but that for strippers, with the way our mgmt handles these things, it would be.
Agreed. You mind find exceptions since it comes down to the decisions of individual owners how they want to treat their employees, but my guess is the overall trend would be negative (as you've seen happen in California).
I do not think every top earning stipper could waltz into a $50k straight job right off the bat. I DO think that the type of girl who manages to become a top earning stripper generally has the ambition to figure out how to succeed at something else if she had/wanted to. Because that DOES take some skill, ambition, etc - intangible qualities that help anyone get a little further than others. And I know I'm not the only stripper sitting on a degree, and who has the ability to sell herself into a regular job despite a lack of "legit" resume entries. I am positive that a good-selling stripper (making some generalizations of course) could do very well at a straight sales job, among other things.
Agreed, and again there would be exceptions, but I'd think that a lot of top selling dancers could do well as sales people (like you said, among other things).
Agreed, and again there would be exceptions, but I'd think that a lot of top selling dancers could do well as sales people (like you said, among other things).
Most well paying sales positions require a degree or at least significant schooling. Along with motivation. And professionalism. Which gets back to the point that dancers who have an educational fall back can approach stripper earning in other industries. The vast majority of dancers, unfortunately, dont have the education or marketable skills to make decent money anywhere else.
FBR
Jenny
09-17-2006, 11:49 AM
^^^
I'm sure that many could EVENTUALLY, but I have my doubts that they could just walk into it. I also think that the assumption that the "top girls" (i.e. the top earning girls) are the most professional, most mature, least likely to goof off, most intelligent etc. is bit off. In my experience some are, some aren't - I must stress that I am not saying that NO top girls are like this, just that I don't think there is a particularly strong correlation or causal factor. And although I realize that there are several strippers sitting on degrees, I don't think MOST of them are; moreover if one is 30, graduated college at 22 and has nothing on her resume but dancing in between those years, the degree is not particularly helpful.
As for dancers being particularly effective sales people - I actually don't think they are - or at least, as I said before I don't think there is strong cause or correlation. What we sell, sells itself. We would not have the same results if we were selling (for example) circus tickets or steak knives. (Imagine: you slink up a guy and sit on his lap and whisper in his ear "Doesn't this look sharp?") In any case, like I said - it's not like I want for dancers, top or otherwise, to be trapped in undesirable working conditions
because they don't have other good options. I just think that the same things that generally cause girls to get into dancing in the first place and keep them there despite the unfair working conditions that currently exist, would, likely, keep them there if the unfair working conditions under which they currently labour changed to different unfair working conditions. And again, I think a lot of these ideas - notably the tip sharing - are red herrings. What impetus would club owners have to force girls to tip share?
^^^ You make good points, Jenny. I would add, however, that in my view, your EVENTUALLY would only happen if the dancer actually returned to school or was willing to go to work in non-stripper industry and put in enough time to get OJT advancements. Of course, maybe that is what you meant by "eventually".
Regarding sales skills, we do differ on that one. When Im at the club, its a given that I will meet beautiful women but I wont just start dancing with the first one that merely asks. I want to be "sold". A punksteresque headless stripper doesnt appeal to me. I expect her to bring out her "big guns" and convince me that she among all the other hot women should be the recipient of my money. Most of her ammunition will be mental and verbal, again because its a given that any stripper I would spend more than a minute with will be attractive. Admittedly, I have been guilty of quickly choosing a dancer based on instant "lust" but for the most part my money (which can be substantial) goes to the gal who can size me up pretty quick and be willing to devote her own ROI time. I think I appeal more to dancers with a strategic rather than tactical approach to business.
FBR
Sitri
09-17-2006, 01:05 PM
Well, since the Bucs are sucking vs Atlanta I read this thread. To save time for anyone just starting this thread. The summary is as follows
1. Management sucks.
2. Some strippers are lazy and ignore the opportunity to make money.
3. The dancers are not employees
4. Some strippers do not like to dance for PLs.
5. A need for sales training exists.
6. CO wasted 4 $5 bills trying to get a dance whereas 4 $1 would have achieved the same results.
The Bucs can't score a TD and like CO I bet they couldn't score a LD in Tampa if they had a hand full of $100 bills.
xdamage
09-17-2006, 02:50 PM
Most well paying sales positions require a degree or at least significant schooling. Along with motivation. And professionalism. Which gets back to the point that dancers who have an educational fall back can approach stripper earning in other industries. The vast majority of dancers, unfortunately, dont have the education or marketable skills to make decent money anywhere else.
FBR
Agreed.
Just to be clear though, I was thinking more long term (say 10 years or so in to the future) where we have this imaginary "employee" status for all or most dancers in the U.S like they have in California. And thinking more about the next wave of girls that are faced with a choice of dancing as an employee vs doing something else.
I expect you'd see a trend where the highly motivated types are less attracted to dancing to begin with. Either they'd skip it entirely, or use it as a temporary stepping stone while they work on the required degree, tending to leave behind those girls who dance because they really can't do much else.
Also agreed that a lot of existing dancers don't have the education or refinement needed to just step into a new line of work. Most will face that reality around age 40, some earlier, and some a little later.
^^^ As a sidebar, my fav is a year or less away from her doctorate in English. Ive asked her several times if she plans to give up dancing or continue stripping when she gets that piece of paper. She says she plans to continue dancing. She enjoys the easy money and (she didnt admit this but I can see it) the drama. Her only issue will be to finagle a place to dance with minimal odds she will see someone from her profession.
So we have dancers who really cant do much else, dancers who have credentials and plan to move on and dancers with credentials who dont want to give it up. Fascinating.
FBR
Jenny
09-17-2006, 04:09 PM
Regarding sales skills, we do differ on that one. When Im at the club, its a given that I will meet beautiful women but I wont just start dancing with the first one that merely asks. I want to be "sold".
Certainly, any many guys do. I don't mean "it sells itself" in the sense of "wanna dance, wanna dance, wanna dance" (although the fact that can work and, in some clubs, be the best model says something. Imagine, by contrast, "wanna car? wanna car? wanna car?") I mean that the "sales" element of our job is way less "hardcore" and skill based than in other sales jobs - like cars, suits, jewellery or steak knives and circus tickets. The sale happens because we are selling sex - which is notoriously easy to sell (and no, I don't mean full out, unprotected, penetrative sex. Stop being so literal).
^^^ "What we sell, sells itself" is a pretty straightforward statement. I was responding to that. And disagreed that it was that simple. But I now understand your point after you have fleshed it out.
FBR
xdamage
09-17-2006, 07:31 PM
^^^ As a sidebar, my fav is a year or less away from her doctorate in English. Ive asked her several times if she plans to give up dancing or continue stripping when she gets that piece of paper. She says she plans to continue dancing. She enjoys the easy money and (she didnt admit this but I can see it) the drama. Her only issue will be to finagle a place to dance with minimal odds she will see someone from her profession.
So we have dancers who really cant do much else, dancers who have credentials and plan to move on and dancers with credentials who dont want to give it up. Fascinating.
FBR
I think like many of the guys have been saying in various ways, dancing (for all the complaints) is appealing for many reasons. Combine the possibility of good pay, sexuality, no paper work, no significant responsibility to anyone else but yourself, flexible hours/requirements, and the bottom line is it has appeal that other jobs don't.
Take the financial benefits out, or flexible hours/requirements, and you'll see some girls leave or be less attracted in the first place.
And yes, it's fascinating.
Bridgette
09-18-2006, 02:29 AM
I was thinking more long term (say 10 years or so in to the future) where we have this imaginary "employee" status for all or most dancers in the U.S like they have in California. And thinking more about the next wave of girls that are faced with a choice of dancing as an employee vs doing something else.
I expect you'd see a trend where the highly motivated types are less attracted to dancing to begin with. Either they'd skip it entirely, or use it as a temporary stepping stone while they work on the required degree, tending to leave behind those girls who dance because they really can't do much else.Exactly. Of course the full effect wouldn't be seen immediately. It would take a few years. Fewer girls would be attracted to it in the first place, while more current girls would be finding more and faster ways out, rather than riding along with an idefinite plan to dance until they no longer can or whatever. Those like myself would walk out pretty much instantly. I definitely would. My point was never that this would be an immediate change.
Also agreed that a lot of existing dancers don't have the education or refinement needed to just step into a new line of work. Sure. But we were talking about the top girls leaving (and again we're talking about a more gradual change, not instant). Most are not top girls. Most don't have the education, ambition, tenacity, etc, to go out and sell themselves into a decent straight job if the situation made it necessary or desirable. So most of those dancing at the time this theoretical situation took effect, would be stuck with it. But many would start looking for ways out and many more would never start because it wouldn't be nearly as attractive as it is now.
I submit that most the top girls do have some or all of the qualities needed to succeed elsewhere. Which was what we were saying - that THOSE girls would get out (or not enter in the first place, in future). Common traits among top girls are ambition and tenacity, which is what I'm saying helps anyone figure out ways to get ahead of the pack - whether as strippers or as straight jobseekers, or entrepreneurs, whatever.
As far as Jenny's assertion that what we sell is self-selling. Maybe. To a point. What separates the top girls from the rest is figuring out how to sell it better. That takes some smarts, some skill, some ambition, some tenacity. My point is that this type of girl has some or all of these qualities and that would enable her to figure out ways to succeed in something else as well, if she wanted or needed to. Sure they may need to put up with the extra bullshit that would come with being an employee stripper (speaking of course of the way US mgmt would tend to do it), but you can bet your ass most would be working on an escape route, sooner not later. I don't see how that point is so debateable.
And Jenny, I think you're focusing too much on tip-sharing as the big point of issue with stripper employees. There are several ways clubs could screw over the dancers if we were true employees. I would say though, that Vegas dealers pool tips. As well as many restaurant workers. That gets enforced somehow. Also, San Francisco girls who are really the girls we're talking about who've sued for employee status and been fucked over for it, are made to put all their money in little club-issued lock boxes which they carry around with them. It's not hard to imagine a system where clubs could implement such a system for tip-pooling, revenue sharing with the club, etc. Also, I submit that as true employees, strippers would be getting private dance payments through the club, which means the club could very well take all or most of that money (I think they'd take most). Considering most customers don't tip anyway, I think it would be extrememly naive to assume they'd tip any more if they had to pay for all dances through the clubs. In fact, a whole lot of custies would buy way fewer dances that way, as many American (especially CA) girls could attest. And then there's the extras issue - I see this situation as encouraging that even more, which is to many girls, a deal-breaker. There's a lot of girls who would go that route, who may not under current circumstances, as a way of getting more direct cash tips that aren't run through the club registers. As we've seen in pretty much every other US city where extras increased significantly and quickly, this is directly correlated to a decrease in overall stripper earnings along with a severe increase in customer demands, which will of course cause a lot of girls to leave the business because they are not willing to do that. I submit Houston as the prime well-known example. Anyway, point is, there are LOTS of ways a true employee situation would be very detrimental to us, most or all of which would be directly attributable to shitty mgmt tactics.
Bridgette
09-18-2006, 03:31 AM
Now, regarding resume gaps. Since I've danced almost straight for 11 years, one can surmise I've got some pretty serious employment gaps, and one would be correct. But I have an education, along with some serious ambition, persistence and a good dose of tenacity. I can write one hell of a resume. And despite several years of non-existent legit resume entries, I manage to fill up that resume well and convince employers to hire me. When I did my 2 most recent job searches, I got about a 90% rate of return on my resume (interview invites), such that I managed to get interviews scheduled constantly for 2 full weeks (3-4 per day), and get multiple offers at the end of those 2 weeks - same result on 2 different job searches in 2 different states at 2 different times. My fiance was amazed and bragged to his family and friends about it, which of course led to them asking how I do it - I learned alot of what it takes to do a good interview through stripping and learning to sell it well, and simply apply said techniques appropriately.
I would most certainly not be the only stripper capable of that. Given that the top sellers must have most or all the same success-generating qualities, is there anyone here who would say my ability in this area is really that unique among TOP strippers??? Or even some of the average ones??? Because I don't think so. Perhaps I'm giving strippers too much credit - or perhaps some of yall are not giving them enough.
xdamage
09-18-2006, 07:03 AM
Exactly. Of course the full effect wouldn't be seen immediately. It would take a few years. Fewer girls would be attracted to it in the first place, while more current girls would be finding more and faster ways out, rather than riding along with an idefinite plan to dance until they no longer can or whatever. Those like myself would walk out pretty much instantly. I definitely would. My point was never that this would be an immediate change.
Right, same here, I wasn't thinking of what would happen immediately, but the trend over the long run.
Most don't have the education, ambition, tenacity, etc, to go out and sell themselves into a decent straight job if the situation made it necessary or desirable. So most of those dancing at the time this theoretical situation took effect, would be stuck with it. But many would start looking for ways out and many more would never start because it wouldn't be nearly as attractive as it is now.
Exactly.
Sure they may need to put up with the extra bullshit that would come with being an employee stripper (speaking of course of the way US mgmt would tend to do it), but you can bet your ass most would be working on an escape route, sooner not later. I don't see how that point is so debateable.
And to continue that thought, it's not hard to forsee the overall quality of the clubs deteriorating (over a period of time) as what will be left behind is the girls who don't have the work ethic, or motivation, or the smarts to do anything else.
I think you're focusing too much on tip-sharing as the big point of issue with stripper employees. There are several ways clubs could screw over the dancers if we were true employees. I would say though, that Vegas dealers pool tips. As well as many restaurant workers. That gets enforced somehow. Also, San Francisco girls who are really the girls we're talking about who've sued for employee status and been fucked over for it, are made to put all their money in little club-issued lock boxes which they carry around with them. It's not hard to imagine a system where clubs could implement such a system for tip-pooling, revenue sharing with the club, etc.
Sure, I threw that out as one possible way things could change for the worse. Whether or not that outcome occurs, hard to say. It may not happen, it may happen. Management never implements tip sharing as a punishment for working hard (although it can be for those who earn the highest tips), but as a way to share the tips with the other employees. In this case say with the DJs, and bouncers who are part of the club's employeed staff but aren't benefitting from the tips. It's rarely popular with the tip earners. It's often popular with the rest of the employeed staff.
But you can imagine, say instead of walking in the door and paying off the DJ and Bouncers with entry fees (afterall you are an employee, they can't straight up charge you to work anymore), instead you are expected to pay them out a percentage of your tips. It might end up being about the same as you pay in door fees, or it might end up being more if you are a top earner, or less if you are a poor earner.
Anyway I don't know for sure how that would play out if dancers were employees, but I am nearly 100% sure that the DJ and Bouncers are going to want a cut of the tips.
Bridgette
09-18-2006, 07:26 AM
And to continue that thought, it's not hard to forsee the overall quality of the clubs deteriorating (over a period of time) as what will be left behind is the girls who don't have the work ethic, or motivation, or the smarts to do anything else. Exactly one of the points I was getting at earlier.
As far as club staff expecting some of the tips - they already do. Clubs pay them crap or nothing at all now. If we were employees, they would have to be too. Which would mean the club would take even larger dance cuts, etc, to make up for the new wages they'd have to pay. And yep I am quite sure these other staffmembers would continue to expect a portion of our tips to help make up for the shit wages you KNOW they'd get paid.
xdamage
09-18-2006, 08:41 AM
Exactly one of the points I was getting at earlier.
As far as club staff expecting some of the tips - they already do. Clubs pay them crap or nothing at all now. If we were employees, they would have to be too. Which would mean the club would take even larger dance cuts, etc, to make up for the new wages they'd have to pay. And yep I am quite sure these other staffmembers would continue to expect a portion of our tips to help make up for the shit wages you KNOW they'd get paid.
Sure, tip based businesses frequently pay their employees shit wages, but yea, one way or another the rest of the club staff is going to want their portion of the tips. If it's not a fixed door fee, they are going to want it in the form of a higher salary or in the form of tip sharing. You can play with the numbers anyway you want, but in the end it's still going to come out of what the dancers make while working at the club, either out of their tips, or out of money brought in from selling dances, VIP room time, or selling drinks. One way or another, the other staff is going to want a share.
Basically what you and I agree on is that, in general (yea we know there are exceptions), the IC route tends to offer hard working highly motivated people greater rewards then the employee route. That's not a hard and fast rule, just a general trend. The IC route shifts more of the responsibility to make money on to the person, while the employee route shifts more of the responsibility on to the owners of the business. For that, it's typical that the business owner wants a bigger cut. Obviously were commissions are involved, it's more of a grey area between being an IC and being a salaried/tip-earning employee.
The bottom line though is that we can both imagine a future trend where dancing as an employee attracts an even larger percentage of girls with a poor work ethic, and lack of motivation, and the club experience further deteriorating (in an overal trend kind of way) as a result.
Jenny
09-18-2006, 10:26 AM
I would most certainly not be the only stripper capable of that. Given that the top sellers must have most or all the same success-generating qualities, is there anyone here who would say my ability in this area is really that unique among TOP strippers???
Well, I think this is the crux of the problem: my anecdotal experience doesn't tell me that IS a given.
Or even some of the average ones??? Because I don't think so. Perhaps I'm giving strippers too much credit - or perhaps some of yall are not giving them enough.
Well - yes, here you go. The sample of strippers that have the skills, background etc., to "make it" in the "real world" (what the fuck the real world? Like my world is fake. I hate that expression. I hate myself a little for using it right now) does not correlate with "Top Dancers". That was precisely my point. So you would get a certain number of dancers, of all skill levels leaving (well... probably not the bottom. In theory if they had better shit to do, they'd already be doing it? Bottom rung for a stripper is pretty fucking low), and the complement... staying, I guess? And then you'd get new strippers coming in, who never experienced anything different, to whom those conditions are perfectly normal, etc. Look - "top dancers" stayed through all sorts of changes that would be have been termed ridiculous 10 years ago. I don't see why that would change.
As for fixating on tip sharing. Guilty - you're right, I am. I think it's because I see girls fearing this and it seems so irrational; but I must stress again, that the "devil you know" attitude will completely strangle any possibility to improve the business in ANY way or any direction. That is what I mean when I say that it reflects this Panglossian attitude - if what we know is necessarily better than anything we don't know (because there is no change or improvement you could not slap down with "well, it depends on how clubowners implement it. Imagine if girls were employees and were faced with going indie?), then clearly we are living in the best of all possible worlds, and god is doing his absolute best.
And, incidently, you're right to a degree. In Guam, for example, I was paid by the club (nominally, with a teeny little bonus if I sold over a certain target in a week). They took half my money. I never held the money, though, so it didn't feel like I was giving it to them, if you know what I mean. On the other hand, they would house you and drive you, and protect you and tolerate a whole lot of bullshit (if you made them good money), and you were guaranteed a certain amount per week (which for some girls is important). I don't know - is it worth it? It is kind of galling to look back and think that every time I had a $600 night, I really had a $1200 night. Or maybe more like $1000, if you subtract stage tips.
xdamage
09-18-2006, 10:51 AM
I don't really see things getting better as such. I mean unless dancers become very organized, like union level organization, or they open their own clubs and don't demonstrate the 'greed' that existing club owners demonstrate, as a general rule it's going to come down to the same simple things that affects wages in all industries.
Mostly just supply and demand.
For the most part, high wages are paid for skills or talents that few others have, or for jobs that few others want to do.
But the inverse tends to also be true. Wages will tend to be lower for jobs that many others can do, or want to do.
So one very possible future is that the stigma about dancing for a living further decreases, in which case we're likely to see an even greater number of girls dancing for a living. It doesn't require a great deal of training or skill (i.e., it doesn't pass the "jobs that others can't do test"), and it if it reaches a point of being a popular thing to do, then you can expect many more girls trying their hand at it.
Dancing is also interesting in that it can be an asset to be young and nubile. Unlike so many other high paying careers where people come into their prime in their 40s, dancers are often leaving the business by then, replaced by the next generation of new young dancers who have no previous expectations about how much they should be paid.
Basic supply and demand trends would suggest that individual dancers will (overall) tend to make less, well unless the customer base increases dramatically.
What is changing is the supply and demand, which means you'll probably see dancers making less in the future, which means you'll probably see certain types of highly motivated (I mean financially) types never enter the business at all, or plan on leaving the business sooner. They won't be comparing it with dancers of 10 years ago that they never knoew. They'll be comparing the option of dancing, and the working conditions and potential wage earning as a dancer with other people in other industries.
Bridgette
09-18-2006, 05:50 PM
^^Right. As earnings potential decreases, fewer girls are attracted to this business in the first place, and older girls who were top earners begin to find it less beneficial to stay and leave for something else.
*************************
I say again, I'm not saying this will be any result of fear of the unknown. I'm saying it will be a result of LESS BENEFIT FOR GETTING NAKED IN PUBLIC. There's only so much our overall benefits can be lowered before women simply become unwilling to do it.
evan_essence
09-20-2006, 12:45 AM
It's just hard to imagine an alternative that could be much worse overall than the continuing slide that the business is on. But really, what's better for an individual dancer isn't a relevant issue in the big scheme of things. The relevant issue is what's legal. I don't see the IC status as being defensible from a legal point of view in the fashion it's executed these days. Too bad, so sad if this conclusion hurts my pocket book, but it just ain't legal. One could argue that forcing the club to be legal will help cull out the criminals and incompetants who abuse the current situation, leaving only those truly adept at legally operating a business to survive.
Taking it a step further, I think strip clubs should be regulated as tightly as the casino industry. Things started going downhill in Missouri when "juice bars" figured out a way around the liquor regulations that were being used to regulate stripping. Liquor Control agents used to monitor the clubs like a hawk, but that went by the wayside. Meanwhile, the state passed riverboat gambling but there's strict regulation. There's a gaming commission that investigates and licenses riverboat casino applicants, holds the owners responsible for violations, and "sin" taxes fund the assignment of a state law enforcement officer to each casino. Why not apply the same model to strip clubs? I can't believe no religious jihadist is pushing for this, except again, it's an awkward political position because they don't want "sins" legitimized. Such a system probably would have to come from a citizen's petition to get it on the ballot.
Oh, yeah, there's a $500 spending limit on losses per gambler per visit. Wouldn't you SCJers love to have a limit protecting you from spending too much on your favorite siren? (Blasphemy! See, Bridgette, how much of a devil's advocate I can be?)
-Ev
easy_e
09-20-2006, 08:09 AM
Something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that the strippers are not entirely at fault for lacking enthusiasm to approach customers. Way too many guys go into the club with no money, nurse one beer for 4 hours, never tip the waitress, never stage tip and never get dances. With all the would-be players, suitcase pimps and leeches taking in the free show it's no wonder dancers get the mindset of "why bother?". Why not just sleep in the dressing room or conversate with the other dancers, instead of wasting time and energy in a futile effort to squeeze 20 bucks out of some loser who doesn't even have gas money to drive himself home? Once that mindset is established, it's hard to snap out of even when a "real" customer does show up.
xdamage
09-20-2006, 12:41 PM
It's true that gambling is heavily regulated, but those laws are heavily intertwined with motivations to make sure that taxes are being paid, both by the casinos, and by the customers (there is a threshold below which customers don't have to report the winnings immediately, but technically they are suppose to).
Where I'm going with this is that to whatever degree clubs and IC dancers are not reporting taxable income, a heavily regulated industry would almost assuredly demand that all income is reported to the IRS via the club.
Also, Casino regulations don't necessarily make for happy dealers or employees. If you've been, you know that there are plenty of rude and grumpy staff to be found in Casinos. Just like miserable rude and grumpy dancers. The only difference is that Casino employees are true employees. They have to do their job (e.g., deal, fix the problem in your room, take your drink order, etc.) regardless of how they feel. They can't pull a "I don't feel like it because I'm an IC" on the customers. But you don't need regulation for that, just employment status and required expectations.
However it's not so simple, since dancers sell themselves, they should reasonably have a right to refuse to sell themselves at any time for any reason. So while you could maybe regulate prices, taxable include, I don't know that you can require dancers to dance for a customer. Actually let me clarify that. It would probably be possible to regulate no-touch dancing, but when it comes to physical contact there are already laws limiting that. Problem is when the vice cops come in and bust the clubs and dancers for violatiing those laws, then the dancers are also not happy about that. In a regulated industry the assumption is there would be a lot more monitoring. That sounds great for the dancers right?
Well not necessarily. Milder lap dancing or no touching could very easily translate into a lot less money for dancers. Customers who won't pay as much just to look.
You might want to expound on what type of regulation you are thinking of, and how it translates into a better experience for the customer. However careful because you could end with a situation that has a lot of negatives for the dancers too such as:
o Increased taxes, lower earnings.
o Less flexibility when it comes to choosing what they can and can't do.
o Less touching, which could translate into customers spending a lot less money.
doc-catfish
09-20-2006, 03:06 PM
Taking it a step further, I think strip clubs should be regulated as tightly as the casino industry. Things started going downhill in Missouri when "juice bars" figured out a way around the liquor regulations that were being used to regulate stripping. Liquor Control agents used to monitor the clubs like a hawk, but that went by the wayside.
One could argue of course, if the state hadn't been monitoring alcohol clubs like a hawk, there would have been no need to club owners to create the concept of a juice bar in the first place.
Meanwhile, the state passed riverboat gambling but there's strict regulation. There's a gaming commission that investigates and licenses riverboat casino applicants, holds the owners responsible for violations, and "sin" taxes fund the assignment of a state law enforcement officer to each casino. Why not apply the same model to strip clubs?
Because unlike regulating gambling, the whole point of "regulating" strip clubs isn't a means to control their excesses. The point is to shut them down.
Oh, yeah, there's a $500 spending limit on losses per gambler per visit.
Actually, there's a $500 limit per gambler for every two hour increment they're on the "boat", and if you're savvy, you can get around that to some extent. The two hour increments start at every even numbered hour, so say for example, I buy in for $500 at 11:45, I can buy in for another $500 once its past 12.
In any regard, the casinos of course are lobbying to get rid of it completely, citing that they are getting complaints from their patrons.
Wouldn't you SCJers love to have a limit protecting you from spending too much on your favorite siren?
It would suck, but there's always a means around that legal Maginot Line. In our case its called OTC.
xdamage
09-20-2006, 03:14 PM
Actually, there's a $500 limit per gambler for every two hour increment they're on the "boat",
LOL $500 limits. You can easily lay down $500 and greater bets at pretty much an Las Vegas or Atlantic City Casino and lose big time. I watched a guy lose $10K at a blackjack table in about 3 minutes, a guy who clearly couldn't afford to lose. He threatened to "fuck" the dealer "in the ass" for losing, so they escorted him out, but the Casino kept the money - lol
evan_essence
09-20-2006, 09:17 PM
One could argue of course, if the state hadn't been monitoring alcohol clubs like a hawk, there would have been no need to club owners to create the concept of a juice bar in the first place.Regulation of the clubs was being achieved under the liquor control era, but the state failed to keep up with changes to skirt the regs. Criminal minds will always try to find a way to exploit loopholes in the law. That's why loopholes are usually closed as they're discovered.
The sole goal of a proposal like this would be compliance with tax, labor and prostitution laws. You know, those things that all other businesses seem to follow, including vices like legal gambling and alcohol.
Because unlike regulating gambling, the whole point of "regulating" strip clubs isn't a means to control their excesses. The point is to shut them down.Depends on how you craft and execute it. The government has regulated legal vices like cigarettes, liquor, gambling and even brothels in Nevada for years without closing them down. When government's getting money from it, they tend not to want to shut it off.
In any regard, the casinos of course are lobbying to get rid of it [the $500 limit] completely, citing that they are getting complaints from their patrons.Yup, but it's been years in Missouri and it hasn't happened yet. Hasn't even been seriously considered in the Legislature for a few years because lawmakers would get hung out to dry by the majority of their constituents who remember they were promised the riverboats would cruise but didn't. Consequently, they're determined to continue to bind the industry to at least one of its pre-passage promises.
-Ev
Bridgette
09-21-2006, 01:24 AM
It's just hard to imagine an alternative that could be much worse overall than the continuing slide that the business is on. But really, what's better for an individual dancer isn't a relevant issue in the big scheme of things. The relevant issue is what's legal. I don't see the IC status as being defensible from a legal point of view in the fashion it's executed these days. Too bad, so sad if this conclusion hurts my pocket book, but it just ain't legal. One could argue that forcing the club to be legal will help cull out the criminals and incompetants who abuse the current situation, leaving only those truly adept at legally operating a business to survive.
Taking it a step further, I think strip clubs should be regulated as tightly as the casino industry. Things started going downhill in Missouri when "juice bars" figured out a way around the liquor regulations that were being used to regulate stripping. Liquor Control agents used to monitor the clubs like a hawk, but that went by the wayside. Meanwhile, the state passed riverboat gambling but there's strict regulation. There's a gaming commission that investigates and licenses riverboat casino applicants, holds the owners responsible for violations, and "sin" taxes fund the assignment of a state law enforcement officer to each casino. Why not apply the same model to strip clubs? I can't believe no religious jihadist is pushing for this, except again, it's an awkward political position because they don't want "sins" legitimized. Such a system probably would have to come from a citizen's petition to get it on the ballot.
Oh, yeah, there's a $500 spending limit on losses per gambler per visit. Wouldn't you SCJers love to have a limit protecting you from spending too much on your favorite siren? (Blasphemy! See, Bridgette, how much of a devil's advocate I can be?)
-EvSo sayeth the stripper goddesses: Ye shall be damned for that devilspeak!!! :medusa:
But really - I don't think being an employee will be bad for just me or certain girls. I think that, gradually, it would be MUCH worse overall. Even worse than we have now, and certainly I think it would accelerate the decline we are currently in. Because I don't believe for one fraction of a second that our mgmt will ever do it the right way. Ever.
The thing that gives us an ounce of benefit in the current situation is that, as I keep saying, at least now we have some slack to conduct business the way we see fit, for our own best interest. I know there are limits, but as employees, those limits would be much tighter and NOT for the better. At least not for us.
mr_punk
09-21-2006, 05:07 AM
Why not apply the same model to strip clubs? I can't believe no religious jihadist is pushing for this, except again, it's an awkward political position because they don't want "sins" legitimized.not necessarily. it can be done, but there has to be compelling reasons for a politician to stick his neck out. back in the late 70s(?), long before gambling outside of Nevada took off in other states. local governments were very vocal against state lotteries for the usual moral reasons. however, state lotteries were starting to become an increasingly popular revenue stream for cash strapped governments hit hard by the recession. obviously, the moral apprehension of politicians were washed away, once they noticed and got hooked on the cash, pork and clout from gambling. the only thing left was to sell the rubes (ie: the voting public) on the idea that the money would be used in an efficient and responsible manner....LOL.
still, it didn't happen overnight. the gaming lobby worked relentlessly to schmooze and grease palms for years in order to achieve their goals. today, gambling is worth exponentially more in terms of money and clout to a politician than a sc. those are incentives for them to bulletproof their asses by keeping the games and it's operators honest. so, the question is: can sc the industry do the same?
xdamage
09-21-2006, 06:01 AM
Because I don't believe for one fraction of a second that our mgmt will ever do it the right way. Ever.
Yep, you can bet that the overall trend will be that club managers structure it for their maximum benefit.
I keep saying, at least now we have some slack to conduct business the way we see fit, for our own best interest. I know there are limits, but as employees, those limits would be much tighter and NOT for the better. At least not for us.
Yea, I wouldn't under-estimate how valuable that freedom is.
still, it didn't happen overnight. the gaming lobby worked relentlessly to schmooze and grease palms for years in order to achieve their goals. today, gambling is worth exponentially more in terms of money and clout to a politician than a sc. those are incentives for them to bulletproof their asses by keeping the games and it's operators honest. so, the question is: can sc the industry do the same?
Exactly.
But even today there are many people that have strong, negative, often religious feelings about gambling. It's taken a long time, and a lot of money spent on advertising to overcome the image of gambling as a devil's vice, and even so, it's just a lessened image, while politicians are still careful about how much they openly associate themselves with gambling.
The SCs need to work on the image as well, you know, advertise it as fun thing to do for the whole family }:D Seriously though an image change can take 10-20 years easily.
All that aside, the heavily regulated gambling industry hasn't necessarily put more money into the pockets of the employees. Sure, there are more people gambling, but there are also more employees. The big money is still being made by the owners and people behind the scenes.
xdamage
09-21-2006, 07:43 AM
and certainly I think it would accelerate the decline we are currently in.
One of the hardest things to accept for employees in any industry is that declines happen. Things change, and the conditions that were once favorable can change for the worse, and often there is nothing that can be done but ride it out or move on. It can happen due to a change in the demand, it can happen due to the amount of competition, it can happen because the seemingly great conditions attracted too many others to compete for jobs, etc. There is a fine line between confusing a defeatist attitude with an intelligent acceptance of reality. And I'd say any plans that start with "if someone else would (where someone = club owners) then..." is wishful thinking, but not likely to happen.
The biggest problem for dancers is they are in an industry where youth is often more valued then experience, and where the entry requirements are low. While an experienced dancer can more then make up for that, the general trend is that she will increasingly be competing with newer, younger who can easily enter the job if she has the looks and willingness.
Another aspect that is changing (as you well know) is that customers are increasingly becoming de-sensitized. Porn is easily obtained in the form of videos and on the internet. The general trend is that customers are going to increasingly want greater degrees of sexual contact for the same $$. And if an experienced dancer won't do it, there is always younger less experienced dancers who will, because they enter the job with lesser expectations to begin with, and possibly with a lesser sense of stigma about sexual contact for money.
It's all part of a general change in the industry that's happening whether or not the individual dancer likes it or not. Of course things could change and the trends reverse, but I don't see that on the immediate horizon, unless our society suddenly becomes a lot more conservative overall.
AkashaM
10-06-2006, 02:46 PM
I would have gladly taken CO's money...come to my club! If a guy ASKS (as CO did) for a dance...I'd be there as soon as my set was over...noooo problem. Its refreshing when a guy has the nerve to ask me for a dance. No matter how crappy I felt that day.
Howie
10-10-2006, 07:37 PM
My last several trips have been pretty much of a disappointment. I don’t think that it was because of a lack of work ethic of the dancers, but more of a lack of customer base with which to give the dancers an incentive to show up for work. The psycho dancer who keeps calling me to come see her complains about working a weekly night shift and barely breaking $100. I stopped by the club tonight at shift change, and they had no one, absolutely -0- dancers show up for the night shift. A day shift dancer I talked to said the day was really slow and customers only started coming in about an hour before the day shift ended.
bianka
10-15-2006, 12:42 PM
yep a stripclub is definitely not a good place to find a boyfriend for a couple reasons.i would have to agree that most of the dancers i've met at work already have a boyfriend or are married .i have met some that have a boyfriend who is just living off of them.it's sad.as far as the guy who tipped the girls $5 each and they didn't pay attention to him like he wanted..i would definitely go right up to him and pay attention to him after getting off stage .(after washing my hands first of course)
Richard_Head
10-29-2006, 12:22 AM
Last three visits:
Visit 1: See new dancer on stage who is fucking gorgeous, I head up to the stage to tip her, while there I ask her if she could stop by and dance for me, get an affirmative from her, she asks where I'm sitting, I clearly let her know. I never see her again:-\.
Visit 2: See an attractive dancer on stage, head up to tip her, she asks me if I would like her to stop by and dance for me when she gets off stage, I tell her yes, she asks where I'm sitting, I clearly tell her. She never stops by instead choosing to work the floor:-\.
Visit 3: See an attractive dancer on stage, head up to tip her, didn't bother asking her to come over to my table this time but if she did I would buy dances. She gets off stage and approaches many of the people around me who did not tip her, she get's no dances, walks right on by me several times without even looking my direction:-\.
No doubt they all went home complaining that there was no money to be made. It's all about working smarter ladies.
Last three visits:
Visit 1: she asks where I'm sitting, I clearly let her know. I never see her again:-\.
Visit 2: she asks where I'm sitting, I clearly tell her. She never stops by instead choosing to work the floor:-\.
Visit 3: walks right on by me several times without even looking my direction:-\.
Let me guess, night shift at Bourbon Street. Am I right or am I right?