View Full Version : Christian Dancers
tampadancer
11-08-2006, 05:37 PM
you can't wilfully sin and get a pass on that. christianity does not in fact work that way.
All sin is willful, not just stripping. We don't usually sin against our will. Since you know the Bible so well, mia, you know that it states that we are ALL sinners... going back to adam and eve and the garden of eden. THe only sinless man was Jesus. You also should know that the only sin that is unforgivable is the denouncement of God. A Christian does NOT believe that working as a dancer will sentence a girl to eternal damnation. Is it sinful? Yes. Just as sinful as jealousy, pride, greed, gluttony, etc. The Bible says that all sin is equal. Dancing is no worse than saying "Oh my God."
I'm not trying to be preachy, but I do know a thing or two about Christianity. So before you all start yourselves into a tizzy.. do your research. I would not make a comment that pertained to a religion that I was unfamiliar with.
Sitri
11-08-2006, 05:47 PM
And if you ever do make it to heaven, it is by Grace and not by your acts...
You specifically can not work your way in by good deeds and you won't be excluded by bad deeds.
Ponder that...
ViolaStrings
11-08-2006, 06:10 PM
whoa, VS, what's with the personal vendetta against a dancer who practices Christianity? Who are YOU to say that a Christian stripper would go to hell for her job? Bottom line: regardless of what you do or do not believe, YOU are not the one to judge. my .02.
I'm not judging anyone, nor do I have a personal vendetta. But by the word of the Bible, stripping is OBVIOUSLY not ok. I'd love for someone to prove otherwise.
I was raised Christian, and though I am not a Christian I do not judge anyone who chooses to be a Christian.
But if one believes in God, Jesus, the Bible, and all that I don't see how hey could reconcile their faith and it's morals with the occupation of exotic dancing. They are basically mutually exclusive.
ViolaStrings
11-08-2006, 06:13 PM
All sin is willful, not just stripping. We don't usually sin against our will. Since you know the Bible so well, mia, you know that it states that we are ALL sinners... going back to adam and eve and the garden of eden. THe only sinless man was Jesus. You also should know that the only sin that is unforgivable is the denouncement of God. A Christian does NOT believe that working as a dancer will sentence a girl to eternal damnation. Is it sinful? Yes. Just as sinful as jealousy, pride, greed, gluttony, etc. The Bible says that all sin is equal. Dancing is no worse than saying "Oh my God."
I'm not trying to be preachy, but I do know a thing or two about Christianity. So before you all start yourselves into a tizzy.. do your research. I would not make a comment that pertained to a religion that I was unfamiliar with.
But as a Christian, aren't you supposed to try to avoid sin to the best of your abilities? I'd say willingly taking your clothes off and arousing strange men in exchange for large amounts of money as a career is something you can easily, clearly avoid.
If stripping and the cash from stripping is more important than following one's faith to the best of their abilities, then that person has their priorities definitely fucked up.
ViolaStrings
11-08-2006, 06:15 PM
Wow. No one is hearing VS. She is NOT judging anyone. She is saying stripping isn't very Christian, which I think we can all agree with. Good, bad, no one's judging. It's just not Christian is what she's saying.
thanks :)
People really tend to put words into my mouth and cast me into a role which I do not fit, and this time I'm the one telling a girl she's going to hell for stripping. JEEZ. People really tend to project their assumptions onto others very easily to fit their own motives.
miabella
11-08-2006, 07:13 PM
i disagree with violastrings that it's always either dancing or the poorhouse, but she does sound suspiciously calvinist. ;-)
one reason many new converts to christianity are stringent about it is because they feel most strongly that god reached down and cleansed them with his blood sacrifice on that cross. an apt comparison my pastor made is that if jesus had died today, it would be like people wearing an aids needle as a holy symbol, or a little electric chair, heh.
they aren't trying to be self-righteous (which is pretty definitely a sin); they just know quite immediately how insidious temptation can be, how hard to resist. the pharisees thought they were about god's work and word in denying christ, but they were wrong. and the corinthians thought they were being just 'open minded' when they let other religions into their christian church, but they were corrupting their own faith. we love to rationalise our sin, because we are born sinful and have to learn in god's grace not to keep running back into the muck of our own evil impulses.
also, new christians are often strictest because god works wonder with the weakest of souls. paul, the definitive new testament writer, the original steward of the christian church, brought a lot of people to christ as a new christian who was fresh from murdering christians!
you can't love god and mammon (money). and any stripper who rationalises stripping as ok to do while professing christianity has already chosen money as her god. i struggle with this a lot when i notice that in an econ-textbook sense, strippars are overvalued more than a little when they transition out into straight jobs and find their broader market worth is very low compared to the inflated salary of trading in sin for cash. probably half to a third their average stripper monies at best, if they are a rare top earner who also happens to have transferable skillsets like some kinds of degrees or business experience or concurrent straight job experience in lucrative fields.
but to kind of get away from econ digressions, back to bibleness. sexuality in the bible is about marriage, between a man and a woman. that is where the fruitful and multiply comes in. the bible is very very big on marrieds having an active and fecund sex life and even recommends engagements be several months, but not ridiculously long. the bible is about things that are hard, but not impossible or ridiculous. it doesn't say you have to be dirt poor and never have sex to be a good christian, but it does say good christians aren't money-hungry or debt-ridden, and they do all they can to only have sex and sexual expressions within the confines of marriage.
hard stuff to stick with, but do-able. very very do-able. if that's your bag.
i do think that you (christians you) cannot say lapdancing for your husband is ok without determining whether the lapdance teacher can be christian for giving lessons in same. this is in fact the sort of point i think about when i read this site, and when i discuss sexwork with other christians. there are grey areas. the bible tells you the essential things you need to love and honor god, but it doesn't cover every random little crap humans think of to do, because it's not meant to be a guide to works-based salvation. some stuff we do have room to figure out on our own because god does let us choose to make room for him.
LilSweetVixen
11-08-2006, 08:26 PM
Christianity is not the same as Judaism or Islam, unless you are a Dispensationalist (Fundamentalist) and believe that Christians we are living under the dispensations of Paul. If you're any other type of Christian you believe in supercession, that Jesus fulfilled all of the laws of the Old Testament such as the 10 commandments and the commandments of Leviticus 18. You believe that the only two laws that Christians are required to follow are 1: Love God with all your heart and soul 2: Love your neighbor as you love yourself. Those are the two commandments that Jesus implements in the Gospel of Luke.
to the original point: you're lucky someone wasn't seriously offended about you wearing a cross in a place like that. I don't know why you were upset, it's a valid question that deserves a valid answer, unless the person is asking rudely. The easiest thing to do is to stop wearing it.
nicole84
11-09-2006, 12:11 AM
I'm sorry, but just as it is someones choice to go into a club, or believe whatever they want, it is her choice to wear a cross. Everyones sees faith differently, and not all christians believe the bible literally. If you choose to wear a pentagram, a star of david, a cross, or any other religious symbol, it is your choice, and it is the customers choice to be there and ask questions.
Also, sorry, but starting with Constantine, and probably even earlier, the bible, and what parts were published or not, was a political choice, not a religious one. Whether or not the original bible was or was not written by a God that may or may not exist, the modern bible is the creation of man. Therefore, you cannot assume things written in it are what this God says.
I do agree with the poster who said that (again assuming there is a God), the way to heaven/salvation is not through works alone. It is through faith, plain and simple. And how you live your life. Are you a good person? Do you treat people kindly? Etc.
I was raised Jewish (with a christian father, who did practice), and both sides informed me that it was who you are as a person that determines what God thinks of you. not what you do.
Stop judging this poor girl. Jeeze.
ViolaStrings
11-09-2006, 12:16 AM
I'm sorry, but just as it is someones choice to go into a club, or believe whatever they want, it is her choice to wear a cross. Everyones sees faith differently, and not all christians believe the bible literally. If you choose to wear a pentagram, a star of david, a cross, or any other religious symbol, it is your choice, and it is the customers choice to be there and ask questions.
Also, sorry, but starting with Constantine, and probably even earlier, the bible, and what parts were published or not, was a political choice, not a religious one. Whether or not the original bible was or was not written by a God that may or may not exist, the modern bible is the creation of man. Therefore, you cannot assume things written in it are what this God says.
I do agree with the poster who said that (again assuming there is a God), the way to heaven/salvation is not through works alone. It is through faith, plain and simple. And how you live your life. Are you a good person? Do you treat people kindly? Etc.
I was raised Jewish (with a christian father, who did practice), and both sides informed me that it was who you are as a person that determines what God thinks of you. not what you do.
Stop judging this poor girl. Jeeze.
No one said she couldn't wear the cross, it's just obvious that it's creating conflict and conflict isn't good for business - esp about something like religion.
Who knows how people get into Heaven? Not me. But I don't think it's by repeatedly doing something that deep down you know conflicts with the word of your chosen god.
Andygirl
11-09-2006, 12:20 AM
.........if you want the loophole just go ask the Catholics. They can do whatever they want and as long as they are sincere in asking forgiveness they will still go to heaven (according to their doctrine). If I was Xtian I would definitely go that route. ;D
Madcap
11-09-2006, 01:23 AM
Evidently, anyone worried about this never read the book of Esther. That "Pleasing the king" babe contest has me rolling every time i read it.
madmaxine
11-09-2006, 01:36 AM
I've been traveling/dancing for 5 years and all I have seen & experienced through my job has taught me all benevolent religions are equal.
Don't tell people what to think & do unless you're willing to support them in every way to make SURE they live according to your ideals.....Like Jonestown ; P
MrChristopher
11-09-2006, 01:50 AM
I'll keep my views to myself, and since this is SG I only want to say.... Mad Maxine, I have an LP that is the full recording of that last day (or last recorded moments) at Jonestown. It's F'n nuts. Pm me for details, ma'am. I really really want to throw Bible quotes back in people's faces, but this isn't the place. Pax Humana.
Embyr
11-09-2006, 03:06 AM
Evidently, anyone worried about this never read the book of Esther. That "Pleasing the king" babe contest has me rolling every time i read it.
Umm, hellz yeah we read it, every Purim all through sunday school, eating our Hammentaschen and shaking groggers.... I bet Nicole84 understands exactly what I am talking about and all the goyim have no clue...
Funny- MiaBella says the Bible reserves "sexuality" for marriage, (i.e. PROCREATION ONLY) but just LOOOOK at all the examples of non-marital sexuality... esther, david and bathsheba (ok fine so that one didn't end too well)... the old testament is not just a bunch of "you must, you must, you must, or you'll go to hell's...." it is filled with interesting stories and tidbits and drama and all sorts of examples of humans being IMPERFECT.... and as far as I know, not everyone was constantly flagellating themselves because they were "SINNING."
I think that "SIN" is ridiculous to begin with and is a fear tactic/great way to justify judging others, but maybe that's what lapsed reform judaism will do.
interesting sidenote- marijuana is "biblically" kosher. my rabbi said so-plant conforms to certain technical kashruth rules. just so we're clear about "sinning."
If the poor girl wants to wear her cross then great, as long as she herself doesn't have qualms with it. I don't judge it, neither should anyone else.
smush33
11-09-2006, 05:42 AM
HAHA
you guys lost the senate and the house!!
Say good bye to the right wing christian conservative....
i am your excuse is "is what god intended"
Ha.. now our country can get on with saving lives instead of killing-------
nicole84
11-09-2006, 08:08 AM
Embyr- lol, yeah I totally new what you were talking about. Unfortunately, most people only seem read the parts of the bible (new or old testament) that they want to, and everyone interpretes it the way they want to. The fact is, you can find a passage supporting or decrying just about anything you want.
TheSexKitten
11-09-2006, 11:47 AM
HAHA
you guys lost the senate and the house!!
Say good bye to the right wing christian conservative....
i am your excuse is "is what god intended"
Ha.. now our country can get on with saving lives instead of killing-------
Irrelevant much? /:O