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Will
09-23-2007, 11:12 AM
This was an interesting thread, but you just couldn't resist poo-ing it up with the same, tired pro-gun arguments.

If data, facts, and history are "tired pro-gun arguements" to you, then yup, guilty as charged.


Gun control does not equal a gun ban.

Quite Irrelevant to this thread and conversation



If you want historical persprctive on the 2nd amendment, try reading " A Well-Regulated Militia" by Saul Cornell.

Which tells me you really don’t know much about this topic. Saul Cornell is a Joyce Foundation funded shill and his work is not taken seriously at all by any of the real 2A legal or historical scholars out there and his conclusions debunked by anyone who even casually researches the topic. It’s not even worth commenting on.


I'm outta here.

Promise?:O

cameron_keys
09-23-2007, 03:12 PM
How realistic is it for women who own one for self defense to carry it daily? Getting dressed is a whole new thing now, ha...

.

Actually I have an ankle holster that can VERY easily conceal a gun(esp a smaller caliber like my Walthers). I usually wear jeans that flare at the ankle anyway...so it isnt a big deal for me.

Crow2
09-23-2007, 04:20 PM
Actually I have an ankle holster that can VERY easily conceal a gun(esp a smaller caliber like my Walthers). I usually wear jeans that flare at the ankle anyway...so it isnt a big deal for me.


Same here, instead I had a holster custom made that fits between my breasts. Best place for it.. :)

cameron_keys
09-23-2007, 04:25 PM
Same here, instead I had a holster custom made that fits between my breasts. Best place for it.. :)

OMG!! I want one!!!

Alaska
09-23-2007, 09:24 PM
Same here, instead I had a holster custom made that fits between my breasts. Best place for it.. :)

:O Pic? yes/no?

So as in, everysingle day girlies wear guns? Guess that would have to include the crappy off days, where all we do is go to the video store and 7/11, guess you could say "especially then."

Crow2
09-23-2007, 09:37 PM
No pic sorry!

Just when I travel to someplace I've never been. Driving that is..

Usually it stays in plain sight on the passenger seat in my car. :)

jaizaine
09-24-2007, 12:16 AM
This may come as a real shock for you, but criminals don't care of they are illigal, thus only honest types don't have access. You are ignorant of the situation and crime rates in your own country, and since banning guns your crime rate has gone up fast, now exceeding those of the US

First of all is there any reason that you are so rude? Just because my opinion differs to yours you do not have to take that rude tone.

Secondly, you obviously "forgot" to quote the part of my quote that said I realised that criminals would still obtain illegal firearms, but I guess if you quoted that part your argument would not have worked as well.

Now you can quote whatever bullshit studies and statistics (because we all know that if a "fact" is supported by a statistic it must be true) and shove them because I am the one living in this country not you. So until you come and live here don't quote your bullshit statistics at me.

There was a shooting here in Melbourne a few months ago - one shooting and it was headline news for two weeks. Would the same be true where you live? Oh sure your statistics say Australia's crime rate is higher than that of Amercia. Well gun related deaths and injuries are still a rarity here.

You are the one who is emotional about this issue, not me. I just said I am glad that firearms are illegal, no need to take offence towards my preferences.

Djoser
09-24-2007, 02:03 AM
...too many people are too stupid to understand the concept of the fact that they are carrying a weapon that kills people. Too many people (especially women, sadly) see it as a "piece," and fake confidence.

The bottom line.

I'm all for women like Crow and Cameron carrying guns. They have had the dedication and correct attitude to learn how to use the fucking things. The vast majority of dancers I have known should not carry a gun.

This country is fucking gun crazy. Watch TV for an hour, while flipping channels, you'll see people getting shot, I guarantee it. If you watch the right channel, you'll see wholesale slaughter. Of course, showing people fucking is right out of the question, that would be immoral and might give kids the wrong idea.

Sure women should be able to carry guns for self-defense. But only after they have demonstrated a level of commitment to learning how to use the damned things, a background devoid of violent or criminal tendencies, etc.

I haven't read the articles claiming that nations such as England and Australia have higher violent crime rates than the USA--I just got home from work, but I am highly skeptical as far as this claim goes.

Will
09-24-2007, 07:04 AM
First of all is there any reason that you are so rude? Just because my opinion differs to yours you do not have to take that rude tone.

Not really intended to be rude, but your niavete does bring out the worst in me I admit. My bad.


Secondly, you obviously "forgot" to quote the part of my quote that said I realised that criminals would still obtain illegal firearms, but I guess if you quoted that part your argument would not have worked as well.

It's there for all to see in your post. Admitting criminals have access to guns then going onto make incorrect statements, showed you don't really get it.


Now you can quote whatever bullshit studies and statistics (because we all know that if a "fact" is supported by a statistic it must be true) and shove them because I am the one living in this country not you. So until you come and live here don't quote your bullshit statistics at me.

I see, emotions trumps facts and data for you. Classic, but common. As my old proff used to say "facts can alter emotions, but emotions don't change facts." The head in sand, don't confuse me with the facts, approach to the issue is a common one, so you are not alone there.


There was a shooting here in Melbourne a few months ago - one shooting and it was headline news for two weeks. Would the same be true where you live?

Again, US ranks behind you in most violent crimes. US is a big country. Most parts have very little crime, a few parts have high crime, averaged out, they are lower than many countries, including yours. Deal with it. However, let it be known of course we have a higher murder rate than you do, but we also know gun ownership has no correlation to murder rates. The US is a violent culture, but still much less so than may other nations.



Oh sure your statistics say Australia's crime rate is higher than that of Amercia. Well gun related deaths and injuries are still a rarity here.

A classic ignorant statement by the head in sand types. Crime is crime, and the women raped at the end of a knife or man hit over the head with a rock does not give a shit what the weapon was, but hey gun crime is down but knife crime, home invasions, rape, etc are all up is OK with you! In response to crime going up and criminals using all manner of things, Australia has now looked to restrict swords and laser pointers:


"the Victorian Government is achieving international recognition for protecting Australians from a danger that has been around for far too long: swords. After July 1, swords will be banned and violators will face penalties that previously have been reserved for laser pointers – six months in jail and a $12,000 fine."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lott/lott27.html


You are the one who is emotional about this issue, not me. I just said I am glad that firearms are illegal, no need to take offence towards my preferences.

Your "preferences," which are based on ignorance of the topic and your emotional feelings about guns, vs any objective info, costs lives both in the short term and the larger long term, thus I felt a duty to correct you. And yes, I find anyone who does not feel self defense is a basic human right all people have a right to offensive.

Will
09-24-2007, 07:15 AM
The bottom line.

I'm all for women like Crow and Cameron carrying guns. They have had the dedication and correct attitude to learn how to use the fucking things. The vast majority of dancers I have known should not carry a gun.

That goes for everyone. They are not toys.


This country is fucking gun crazy. Watch TV for an hour, while flipping channels, you'll see people getting shot, I guarantee it. If you watch the right channel, you'll see wholesale slaughter. Of course, showing people fucking is right out of the question, that would be immoral and might give kids the wrong idea.

Agreed, but it's not "gun crazy" per se, but violence in general. The US celebrates violence, and it sucks. I notice that when you go to rent a movie, ever notice how 90% of them always have a person holding a gun on the cover? Why do we need that? I dont like it. I also don't like the vid games being marketed to kids. Two people having sex is rated X, but blowing some woman's head off for fun is rated R or even PG13?!! Insane.

jaizaine
09-24-2007, 04:41 PM
Will you just sound like a pro gun nut to me.
You are not going to convince me with any of your pro-gun arguments. I never said people do not have the right to defend themselves. I simply said I prefer that firearms are illegal in Australia. That is not going to change so I suggest you get over it.

Will
09-24-2007, 04:54 PM
Will you just sound like a pro gun nut to me.

Nah, I just care about people's rights, you don't.


You are not going to convince me with any of your pro-gun arguments.

Don't confuse you with the facts, got it! As expected, you offer no counter argument other than the equivalent of putting your fingers in you ears and going "la la la la la" as children do when they don’t want to hear something.



I never said people do not have the right to defend themselves.

Sure you did, right here below:


I simply said I prefer that firearms are illegal in Australia.

Which translates into “I do not support the right of law abiding people to protect themselves” as you already admitted criminals have access to them and don't follow laws.


That is not going to change so I suggest you get over it.

Sorry I tried to confuse you with the facts. My bad./:O

jaizaine
09-24-2007, 05:00 PM
^^^
I dont know why you are so annoyed that I like the way it already is and will remain in my country. You don't live here so what do you care? You can have as many stupid guns as you wish where you live, good for you go shoot some cans.

Write to my government if you want to remain arguing coz I am just laughing at you.

Go eat a foot ;D

Circe
09-24-2007, 06:22 PM
As long as proper training is involved, I'm all for owning guns.

Self defense courses also have their place, in learning how to be aware of your surroundings, trusting your gut, how to de-escalate situations, etc. It depends on the course though...some really blow.

Alaska
09-24-2007, 06:41 PM
Well, at least he provided a better article than the first when I had issues with the first, and read my long ass posts and then provided a second article. That's way more than a pro-gun nut would do.

Not that it would change my mind, but at least this thread made me think...lotsa thread s don't!

Dirty Ernie
09-24-2007, 07:12 PM
I'm glad to see some of the discussion in here is about responsible gun ownership and self-defense. Given the line of work you ladies are in, self defense knowledge is important. I forwarded the Kimber link to my sister, who has had a snub-nose .38 for 20 years because it fits her hand (she's 5'). I'm sure Will has good info on some aspects of self-defense, but he appears unwilling to share anything without including promoting an agenda. That's unfortunate.

Will, since facts and accuracy are so important to you, I thought I'd help you out. If you would have bothered to read the article you posted from WorldNetDaily, you would see the violent crime rate in Australia was 4.1% not the 30% you claim. That figure is for overall crime victimization, which included burglary, and auto theft, among other categories. Gun ownership won't make anyone safer from theft or burglary, because you aren't there when the crime occurs. Also that article was from 2001 and a 10 second google search turns up the results of the 2004 survey.
http://www.aic.gov.au/media/2005/20050427.html

Why didn't you bother to post this as well? And notice the AUS govt puts the figure from the 2000 survey at 24%. Could it be WorldNetDaily, who consider themselves a legitimate media outlet, would publish nefarious info? They are such a stalwart of truth and conservatism. Well, we won't talk about the article claiming a soy diet will turn your sons gay.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53327

jaizaine
09-24-2007, 07:21 PM
^^^

thank-you ;)

Will
09-24-2007, 08:13 PM
Well, at least he provided a better article than the first when I had issues with the first, and read my long ass posts and then provided a second article. That's way more than a pro-gun nut would do.

It appears Gandhi was a gun nut too:

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." -Mohandas K. Gandhi

The worlds best known men of peace understand and support the idea of self defense as a basic human right, but this larger concept is lost of the closed/small minded types who focus on the tool vs the intent of the person. Gun control is not about guns, it's about control. Let's not forget that other gun nut, The Dalai Lama, who said

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." -- The Dalai Lama, (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times)

Damn world is full of gun nuts!


Not that it would change my mind, but at least this thread made me think...lotsa thread s don't!

At least you seem to have a working brain able to think. Some here seem to have lost that skill.

Flick6
09-24-2007, 08:39 PM
Also most rape victims are under 18.

Really? Just curious where that info came from, it's interesting and frightening. (gonna lock my daughter in her room for 16 years!)

Will
09-25-2007, 07:49 AM
I'm glad to see some of the discussion in here is about responsible gun ownership and self-defense. Given the line of work you ladies are in, self defense knowledge is important. I forwarded the Kimber link to my sister, who has had a snub-nose .38 for 20 years because it fits her hand (she's 5'). I'm sure Will has good info on some aspects of self-defense, but he appears unwilling to share anything without including promoting an agenda. That's unfortunate.

The agenda I promote is that of basic human rights, but you appear to thick to understand the concept.


Will, since facts and accuracy are so important to you,

So much for the promise you had left this thread. You then avoided all the data and articles I posted to focus on one thing you hope i got wrong to some how make you appear like you actually know anything about the topic, and I can't use my time correcting you yet again, but here goes:

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2006/01_recorded_crime.html

96-2005, murder up, then down, rape up, assault, up, robbery about steady, kidnapping up. Not a summery as you posted, but the year by year numbers.

Have all of them gone down in 2006-2007? If so, great. I didn't look. Can't say it matters much to me at this point and if so, the trend already existed:

A direct quote from Dr Don Weatherburn, head of the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research:


"It may come as a surprise to Simon Chapman (Letters, October 31) but, like him, I too strongly supported the introduction of tougher gun laws after the Port Arthur massacre.

The fact is, however, that the introduction of those laws did not result in any acceleration of the downward trend in gun homicide. They may have reduced the risk of mass shootings but we cannot be sure because no one has done the rigorous statistical work required to verify this possibility.

It is always unpleasant to acknowledge facts that are inconsistent with your own point of view. But I thought that was what distinguished science from popular prejudice."

Finally, you can download the http://www.c-l-a-s-s.net/Baker-McPhedran.htm for a link to a paper published in the British Journal Of Criminology that found for example the buy back program had no effects on murder rates.

Crow2
09-25-2007, 08:54 AM
Personally, I don't think Will is trying to change anyones mind per-say.

Like guns, information is a powerful tool and of course you can choose to use it, or not. All it boils down to is personal choice. I simply choose to arm myself and have an advantage over the psychos in the world that prey on women.

Gun ownership is a large responsibility, if and when I have to shoot someone to protect myself I am the one that has to make that choice. My decision..

I am far from a "gun nut", I do however believe it is my right to carry and own a gun, also I don't think it's right for someone who sits in a chair in one of our legislative houses and knows nothing at all about me to make a decision that says I can not own a gun. I make my own choices. Not some bureaucrat.

Will
09-25-2007, 09:07 AM
Personally, I don't think Will is trying to change anyones mind per-say.

You know how it is, once people decide on a thing, especially if decided on with their emotional brain vs any objective view, changing their minds is near impossible and no amount of facts, data, etc, will generally change it. However, I have seen a few people that did 180 degree change there after being informed, so it’s always at least worth a try. Of course if you challenge them, you are a “gun nut” which puts me in a very good company actually.


Like guns, information is a powerful tool and of course you can choose to use it, or not. All it boils down to is personal choice. I simply choose to arm myself and have an advantage over the psychos in the world that prey on women.

Gun ownership is a large responsibility, if and when I have to shoot someone to protect myself I am the one that has to make that choice. My decision..

I am far from a "gun nut", I do however believe it is my right to carry and own a gun, also I don't think it's right for someone who sits in a chair in one of our legislative houses and knows nothing at all about me to make a decision that says I can not own a gun. I make my own choices. Not some bureaucrat.

I agree with all of the above, and it's why I would support your right to defend yourself. A quote from another gun nut:

"I have been repeating over and over again that he who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden. He has no business to be the head of a family. He must either hide himself, or must rest content to live for ever in helplessness and be prepared to crawl like a worm at the bidding of a bully." - Mahatma Gandhi (Young India, 11-10-1928, p342)

Crow2
09-25-2007, 09:26 AM
People fear guns and as well they should - what is that saying? People kill people, not guns. I'm sure I have mangled it but you get the idea.

In the hands of a responsible, well trained individual guns are safe.

It's when they are in the hands of the ignorent and individuals that are hell bent to do wrong or the mentaly unstable - thats when it becomes a problem and that is what is in the news and feed the propaganda wheel.

When I see the hunters out in season, drinking their beer - slapping each other on the back, tromping through the woods with their big shiny shotguns. I just cringe. Because I know soon enough there is going to be on the news that another hard core redneck is going to be shot. Dead by his best bud in a "hunting incident".

Or there is going to be a report of another drive-by shooting where an innocent child is going to be shot.. and of course that is what the lawmakers are trying to prevent and rightly so. Then again, they catch people like me up in their vague and wide sweeping laws.

So, if that makes me a gun nut. Okay. :)

As a side note - LA ( Los angeles) and new orleans were once called murder capitals of the world. Plus, I think in LA it is nearly impossible or illigal to own a gun.

I think NO is still called the murder capital of the world.

Will
09-25-2007, 09:47 AM
People fear guns and as well they should - what is that saying? People kill people, not guns. I'm sure I have mangled it but you get the idea.

I do. As Freud said “A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" ;D


In the hands of a responsible, well trained individual guns are safe.

It really goes beyond that: they save lives. That they are safe in the hands of a trained person is a given, but that's a neutral statement. Tools have risks, but those risks are part of a much larger picture:

"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or laborer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there." --George Orwell


I think NO is still called the murder capital of the world.

Wanna find the safest place to live in the US? Easy, follow the Brady Bunch ratings. Each year they give a state a grade for their gun laws. States that have non restrictive gun laws get the low grades and states that restrict (legal) acces to guns get a high grade. Lets take a look:

STATE . . . . . . Brady Grade,

New York . . . . . . B+
Vermont . . . . . . . D-
New Hampshire . . D-
Maine . . . . . . . . . D-
Massachusetts . . . A-
Connecticut . . . . . A-
Rhode Island . . . . B-


Now lets look at the crime stats for those same states:

2005 FBI UCR data of crime/homicide rates per 100,000 people:

Region . . . Violent Crime, Homicide Rates
USA National . . 569.2 , 5.6
New York . . . . 445.8 , 4.5
Vermont . . . . . 119.7 , 1.3
New Hampshire 132.0 , 1.4
Maine . . . . . . . 112.2 , 1.4
Massachusetts . 456.9 , 2.7
Connecticut . . . 274.5 , 2.9
Rhode Island . . 251.2 , 3.2

So, want to live in the safest states? Pick the state that gets the WORST grade by the Brady Bunch! :O

Crow2
09-25-2007, 10:15 AM
Yes, and I'm sure those stats were compiled by so called "normal" individuals too.

Normal as in what society deems as "normal"

There is no so called safe place to live, unless you live under a rock :)

Will
09-28-2007, 01:47 PM
Yes, and I'm sure those stats were compiled by so called "normal" individuals too.

Normal as in what society deems as "normal"

There is no so called safe place to live, unless you live under a rock :)

You know what they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. If that's the case than this vid is worth a million:

http://www.weaponvideos.org/viewvideo/259/Gun_bans_in_the_UK__NRA_/

Crow2
09-28-2007, 02:29 PM
Wow. All I can say is wow..

Will
09-28-2007, 02:34 PM
Wow. All I can say is wow..

The four most deadly words ever spoken by any human being:

"It can't happen here"

Paris
09-28-2007, 03:19 PM
All that changed though when I decided to practice some of my moves on my husband (then boyfriend). Although he is a bit on the smaller side, it amazed me at how easily he overpowered me. I’ve heard feminists claim that women are every bit as strong as men. If that were true, why do women have to meet lower standards than men for physical agility tests? Although I’ve met some pretty tough girls, the vast majority of women would not be able to defend themselves against even the smallest of men.

The problem with this argument is that she meant no ill will toward her boyfriend. She had no desire to harm him. If she was in a situation where serious-emergency-room-visit kind of blows can be dealt, I'm sure she would would have surprised her attacker.

If a woman wants to do some serious harm, it can be done. It has to be done dirty and quick. Stalkers/rapists are pussies and don't want to deal with a woman who has the potential of doing some major harm.

Have you ever tried to control an angry or upset 10 pound cat? Easier said than done;).

Here's a good example of a man being overcome by a 10 pound cat... (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Eht-kEzq88w)

Paris
09-28-2007, 03:31 PM
I do. As Freud said “A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" ;D




Bwhahahahaha! You quoted Freud.:rotfl:

Crow2
09-28-2007, 06:16 PM
I love Pinky. :)

Will
09-29-2007, 07:15 AM
The problem with this argument is that she meant no ill will toward her boyfriend. She had no desire to harm him. If she was in a situation where serious-emergency-room-visit kind of blows can be dealt, I'm sure she would would have surprised her attacker.

If a woman wants to do some serious harm, it can be done. It has to be done dirty and quick. Stalkers/rapists are pussies and don't want to deal with a woman who has the potential of doing some major harm.

Have you ever tried to control an angry or upset 10 pound cat? Easier said than done;).

Here's a good example of a man being overcome by a 10 pound cat... (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Eht-kEzq88w)

That's all well and fine, but there are also times when only one thing will stop some nut job, and it aint self defense classes. Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away, or in some cases, hours...

2 students shot dead had sought cops' help

Walter Pacheco

Sentinel Staff Writer

September 27, 2007


Roughly three hours before they died, Tiffany Barwick and Michael Ruschak asked Seminole County deputy sheriffs for protection from the man they feared would kill them.

Andrew Allred, Barwick's former boyfriend, had raided her bank account, tampered with her MySpace page and sent phony messages to her family and friends, she told deputies. He e-mailed Ruschak saying, "The next time I see you, I'm going to kill you," and sent Barwick an image of herself covered with bullet holes, a report of the meeting states.

A deputy replied that he could do nothing at that time.

Cont:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/seminole/orl-twodead2707sep27,0,4684421,full.story

Will
09-29-2007, 07:19 AM
I love Pinky. :)

Fu*& me that's funny! Kitty went ballistic on his ass. His screaming toward the end was killin' me! ;D;D;D

Crow2
09-29-2007, 09:42 AM
That's all well and fine, but there are also times when only one thing will stop some nut job, and it aint self defense classes. Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away, or in some cases, hours...

2 students shot dead had sought cops' help

Walter Pacheco

Sentinel Staff Writer

September 27, 2007


Roughly three hours before they died, Tiffany Barwick and Michael Ruschak asked Seminole County deputy sheriffs for protection from the man they feared would kill them.

Andrew Allred, Barwick's former boyfriend, had raided her bank account, tampered with her MySpace page and sent phony messages to her family and friends, she told deputies. He e-mailed Ruschak saying, "The next time I see you, I'm going to kill you," and sent Barwick an image of herself covered with bullet holes, a report of the meeting states.

A deputy replied that he could do nothing at that time.

Cont:




You know what's sad about this is, that if that happened to anyone ( including myself ) the police would say the same thing. Over and over again. Protect and Serve. Yeah okay..

PO's can not do anything untill there is some ACT of intent to harm. Obviously someone telling another individual they are "going to kill them" means nothing.

This is not a randon event. It happens. But it wont happen to me.

Will
09-29-2007, 10:09 AM
You know what's sad about this is, that if that happened to anyone ( including myself ) the police would say the same thing. Over and over again. Protect and Serve. Yeah okay..

PO's can not do anything untill there is some ACT of intent to harm. Obviously someone telling another individual they are "going to kill them" means nothing.

This is not a randon event. It happens. But it wont happen to me.

Very well said. As looney as he can be, "the Nuge" makes some valid points on the issue:

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/127000/Ted_Nugent_Talks_Gun_Control.html

Will
09-29-2007, 10:11 AM
You know what's sad about this is,

PS, what I find most sad is, it still will not change the minds of the head-in-sand types who have posted in this thread. You know "can't happen to me" and all that....Good on you Ms Thing.;)

Deogol
09-29-2007, 10:32 AM
PS, what I find most sad is, it still will not change the minds of the head-in-sand types who have posted in this thread. You know "can't happen to me" and all that....Good on you Ms Thing.;)

<sarcasm>
Finally women will come know their place when gun control is fully implemented.

Already they know it's best not to be out at night without an escort. At night time, a woman's place IS in the home.

There will come a time when they will know they should not be out during the day without an escort. In some parts of some cities this is already the cultural phenomenon!

The value of having a man around will increase for purposes of deterrent and protection.

Once again women will have to, in effect, ask permission of their brother's and father's (or crazy ex-boyfriend) for the right to travel someplace or go without protection.
</sarcasm>


The free can choose to be unfree.

Will
09-29-2007, 10:45 AM
<sarcasm>
Finally women will come know their place when gun control is fully implemented.

Already they know it's best not to be out at night without an escort. At night time, a woman's place IS in the home.

There will come a time when they will know they should not be out during the day without an escort. In some parts of some cities this is already the cultural phenomenon!

The value of having a man around will increase for purposes of deterrent and protection.

Once again women will have to, in effect, ask permission of their brother's and father's (or crazy ex-boyfriend) for the right to travel someplace or go without protection.
</sarcasm>


The free can choose to be unfree.

An interesting sociological/cultural angle you have brought to the table there. Of course, that’s not fiction, but exactly how it is in many Muslim countries, and no doubt, people are threatened by a women who does not need a man to defend herself regardless of the culture. But if a women can't be shown her place by logic or by religion, she will be shown it by force...

Crow2
09-29-2007, 01:57 PM
An interesting sociological/cultural angle you have brought to the table there. Of course, that’s not fiction, but exactly how it is in many Muslim countries, and no doubt, people are threatened by a women who does not need a man to defend herself regardless of the culture. But if a women can't be shown her place by logic or by religion, she will be shown it by force...


These ideals and attitudes still prevail today, in America. Like prejudice, bigotry and all the ugliness's of small minded, inept and uninformed individuals. It's not just a religious zealot in the middle east.

It here, live and well plus thriving! To not inform yourself with all the information that is at anyones fingertips is foolish to put it nicely. To also keep the mindset that "it can not happen to me" is also foolish.

I'm not trying to be an alarmist or scare anyone into gun ownership - everyone needs to be well informed and THEN make your decision.

It's the least I can do for the people that care about me.

Will
09-29-2007, 03:31 PM
These ideals and attitudes still prevail today, in America. Like prejudice, bigotry and all the ugliness's of small minded, inept and uninformed individuals. It's not just a religious zealot in the middle east.

It here, live and well plus thriving! To not inform yourself with all the information that is at anyones fingertips is foolish to put it nicely. To also keep the mindset that "it can not happen to me" is also foolish.

I'm not trying to be an alarmist or scare anyone into gun ownership - everyone needs to be well informed and THEN make your decision.

It's the least I can do for the people that care about me.

As you can see, attempting to inform them get's me called "gun nut" and such.

Crow2
09-29-2007, 03:50 PM
As you can see, attempting to inform them get's me called "gun nut" and such.


Yes well.

Here's a story. A lady I work with ( and she is very much a lady, ink and all )
was kidnapped, right out of her car before I met her. Because she did not lock her car doors.

When she was found and thank God she was, she was addicted to a drug that will remain nameless and she had been raped over two hundred times. I'm not making this up, this actually happened.

She is one of the lucky ones, my co-worker as she was found. Now she carries a gun and with good reason.

Just think of the women that are NOT found.

If wanting to not be a stat in some national profile for deaths for a state makes me a gun nut. Okay?

Personally, I don't give a rats ass what other people think of me. I will not be taken advantage of. I have armed myself with information and am a responsible adult. If that makes me a gun nut. Okie dokie. :)

cameron_keys
09-29-2007, 03:51 PM
Have you ever tried to control an angry or upset 10 pound cat? Easier said than done;).



100% correct. When I was a tech we had one client that had a 6 pound chihuahua. Meanest,most aggressive dog I've ever seen in my life. She had to give him a tranquelizer to bring him in ..and even THEN it often took 2 or 3 of us to effectively restrain him.

You'd be AMAZED what a good flow of adrenaline can do for you. The old "mother lifts a car off her baby" thing? That could just as easily be woman lifts a car ONTO her rapist.

Plus...there are many ways to use an attackers strength to YOUR advantage. I took Aikido for years, and that was one of the main teachings. The bigger your attacker...the more strength YOU had by using it against him.
We had an 8 yr old in class one day. Within an hour he was able to direct his energy flow so that his mother could not pick him up no matter how hard she tried...even though she could pick him up quite easily beforehand.
Within 2 classes I could flip a police officer twice my size over my shoulder without any problem.

I still carry...mostly because an attacker that is intent on harming or on drugs, etc....can be impervious to a lot of things and have near superhuman strenght himself.

Crow2
09-29-2007, 07:50 PM
Cameron, you are right on about the adreline rush and so forth. :)

If anyone can take some sort of self defense class and be well armed to protect themselves that way. Wonderful!

Sometimes that wont work for everyone. :P