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azcustomer
09-20-2006, 02:22 PM
Probably a better criticism of current Israeli culture comes from a holocost survivor, Israel Shahak. He points to the hidden teaching of the Talamud which influence Israeli policy.

Here's a synopsis written by an Israeli scholar, now a naturalized US Citizen:

http://www.middleeastbooks.com/html/books/shahak-jewish.html

Again, I'm not bashing Jews in general, most I've met are smart, funny, nice people.

However, Mr. Shahak suggests that we need to understand the influences of Israeli policies to safeguard ourselves against unnecessary conflicts.

lunchbox
09-20-2006, 02:53 PM
However, Mr. Shahak suggests that we need to understand the influences of Israeli policies to safeguard ourselves against unnecessary conflicts.
Do you think we are under threat of attack from Israelis?

BTW, Shahak has been dead for 5 years, and was not a US citizen. He was a scientist, which is not the same thing as a scholar. Anyways, we can really tell you read this book, and the high estimation you held the author in... excellent post.

PaigeDWinter
09-20-2006, 05:09 PM
I never said they didn't, but they don't do anything about it either.


And they're supposed to do.... what?

azcustomer
09-20-2006, 05:44 PM
Do you think we are under threat of attack from Israelis?

BTW, Shahak has been dead for 5 years, and was not a US citizen. He was a scientist, which is not the same thing as a scholar. Anyways, we can really tell you read this book, and the high estimation you held the author in... excellent post.

Your hatred is affecting your ability to read and think.

I said the synopsis was written by an Israeli scholar and naturalized US citizen, not Shahak. Her name is Dr. Edna Homa Hunt.

By the way - in addition to being a scientist, he was also a professor at a Hebrew University. Um, that might qualify him as a scholar in some circles. If not, the detailed research behind his book certainly makes him one.

Then again, he didn't support Israel's policies towards their neighbors and challenged the teachings of Israeli synagogues for spreading questionable attitudes... Maybe this holocost survivor named Israel Shahak is really an Anti-Semite in sheep's clothing...

And I do think that continuing to support Israel and it's policies towards the Palestines and Israel's neigbors puts the United States at great risk. Certainly Israel would never attack us directly, but insisting on our support while entertaining very dangerous policies puts us at great risk. Who knows what Israel's stance towards us would be if we stopped giving them $4-6 billion each year?

lunchbox
09-21-2006, 06:12 AM
And they're supposed to do.... what?
It was the silent majority that allowed the Nazi's to come to power. What should they have done?

PaigeDWinter
09-21-2006, 06:20 AM
It was the silent majority that allowed the Nazi's to come to power. What should they have done?


Hmm. So the citizens of Nazi Germany were supposed to revolt? Did they honestly have the firepower to do so? And what would you like Anti-terroism, American Muslims to do? Start their own war?

azcustomer
09-21-2006, 07:07 AM
Hmm. So the citizens of Nazi Germany were supposed to revolt? Did they honestly have the firepower to do so? And what would you like Anti-terroism, American Muslims to do? Start their own war?

Should expect the American Jews to start a war challenging the oppression of Palestinians in Israeli occupied territories?

Are they the silent majority whom we should hold responsible?

lunchbox
09-21-2006, 08:00 AM
Hmm. So the citizens of Nazi Germany were supposed to revolt? Did they honestly have the firepower to do so?
I'm not looking for excuses or apologies. I'm asking you to open your eyes and see that it is going to happen again. How does this not compare?

And what would you like Anti-terroism, American Muslims to do? Start their own war?
Where does militant Islam end if not in war? It's not with Israel, or else how do you explain militant Islam fighting all over the world? Is this something you want in your backyard? If we don't do anything now, how is it not bound to happen?

azcustomer
09-21-2006, 08:11 AM
I'm not looking for excuses or apologies. I'm asking you to open your eyes and see that it is going to happen again. How does this not compare?
Where does it not compare? Um, the Nazi's came to power because the German people were in an economic crisis. Hyperinflation was caused by WW I war reparations. The average German pretty much knew that the only way out of their problem was to go to war again. After Hitler came to power and established a stronghold, then he started the concentration camps. Where there are similarities are where we (the United States) have placed economic sanctions against Muslim nations in support of Israel in various conflicts. Those economic sanctions hurt a great deal. If we removed the sanctions, the average Muslim on the street in those countries would be much better off and would have little reason to harbor ill will towards us.

Where does militant Islam end if not in war? It's not with Israel, or else how do you explain militant Islam fighting all over the world? Is this something you want in your backyard? If we don't do anything now, how is it not bound to happen?
Where exactly do you feel that militant Islam exists? The thread started talking about the average Arab on the street. The terrorist problem and most of the demonstrations are sectarian in nature, not national. Blaming the average muslim for the actions of a few is like blaming the average Jew for the actions of a few radical Orthodox Jews, or blaming the average Christian for the actions of some aryian Christian group.

lunchbox
09-22-2006, 08:16 AM
Where does it not compare?
The non-Nazis went with the flow. Do you see any reason for a moderate Muslim to do different? What is the end to Militant Islam, or should it be allowed to continue?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26545


.....

"They may not admit it, but ultimately they want to make the U.S. a Muslim country," Steven Emerson, a leading anti-terrorism specialist, told WorldNetDaily.

"In the interim they want to acquire as much political power as possible to push their agenda, to be afforded legitimacy by political officials," Emerson said. "So this (voter drive) is part and parcel of their campaign."

CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper indicated in a 1993 interview with the Minneapolis Star Tribune that he wants to see the United States become a Muslim country.

"I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future," Hooper told the Star Tribune. "But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education."

Hooper noted in the interview that Muslims aren't allowed to take over the U.S. and other governments. "What we fight for here and in the remainder of the world is to practice our beliefs," he said.

Calls to CAIR and Hooper's office by WorldNetDaily were not returned.

Emerson notes that Abdulrahman Alamoudi, then-executive director of the American Muslim Council, said at a conference by the Islamic Association for Palestine in December 1996 that the United States will become a Muslim country, even if it takes 100 years.

......

Those are leaders of "respectable" groups. Do you want Qu'ran and Sharia, or would you rather keep the Bill of Rights and the Constitution?


Where exactly do you feel that militant Islam exists? The thread started talking about the average Arab on the street. The terrorist problem and most of the demonstrations are sectarian in nature, not national. Blaming the average muslim for the actions of a few is like blaming the average Jew for the actions of a few radical Orthodox Jews, or blaming the average Christian for the actions of some aryian Christian group.
Militant Muslims are waging war across the globe:

Darfur, where over a half million are estimated dead. Do you think this is because of the Fur's support for Israel?
Indonesia, there hs been fighting between Muslims and Christians (who fought against the Dutch for independence) since the 1999 election. They have terrorist acts like bombing 2 tourist night clubs in the last 4 years.
Moscow, muslims threaten a gay pride parade.
In Thailand they are killing Buddhists.
Muslim controlled Malasia is watching what happen intently with Thailand.
OPEC pushed the US to provide weapons for Muslims, who were fighting with the Serbs and Croats.
Rioting that involed stoning and shooting at the police all across Europe...
etc. etc. etc...

Your myopic view that militant Islam is only a Palestine/Israel issue, is getting tiresome. Why do you need to keep limiting the discussion?

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013068.php (link to the original AP story included).

Bin Laden hanged in effigy outside California mosque -- while counter-protestors shout "racists go home!"

Now wait a minute. This jihad business is supposed to be coming from a tiny minority of extremists who have hijacked Islam, and who aren't even true Muslims at all, right? Isn't that what has been dinned into our ears for five years now, and has been reinforced this week in an avalanche of 9/11 commemorative articles in which American Muslims complain about being profiled and identified as terrorists?


So then why is it that when the United American Committee hanged Osama in effigy, the members of the King Fahd mosque didn't eagerly join in, happy for the chance to show that they're patriotic Americans who are outraged at what bin Laden and his ilk have done to their faith? Why instead did they mount counter-protests crying racism?
Like I said, moderates will go with the flow of Islam...

Jay Zeno
09-22-2006, 08:27 AM
The BBC had an interesting segment. It looked with approval on the "melting pot" of the U.S. and the ability of diverse ethnic/religious groups to work together. It drew a sharp contrast between the ethnic communities in the U.S. and Europe. The thing that struck me was the statement that "segregation in America does not mean anti-integration, as it does in Europe."

They interviewed a number of Muslim Americans who talked about the U.S. being the best country in the world, happy with their opportunity to get ahead. Also interviewed was the head of a Muslim rights group who said that while he happily would advocate the rights of Muslims, he would also happily and quickly turn in any jackasses who wanted to promote terror or bring down the system.

The segment noted that a push for Muslim violence in the U.S. is likely imported and not home-grown. It noted that generally, Muslims are quite happy with life in a diverse U.S. society, and this provides an enviable model for the rest of the world.

I was surprised that the BBC would generate such a favorable spot, but there it was.

azcustomer
09-22-2006, 09:49 AM
The non-Nazis went with the flow. Do you see any reason for a moderate Muslim to do different? What is the end to Militant Islam, or should it be allowed to continue?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26545

Those are leaders of "respectable" groups. Do you want Qu'ran and Sharia, or would you rather keep the Bill of Rights and the Constitution?
And to make your argument, you link to and article from a nutcase neocon website? I also enjoyed the article bashing Madonna for using a crucifix in her show and the other article claiming that liberals love adulterers.


Militant Muslims are waging war across the globe:

Darfur, where over a half million are estimated dead. Do you think this is because of the Fur's support for Israel?
No, I think Darfur is a story of Muslims killing other Muslims. Um, it was a famine that started the whole thing.



Indonesia, there hs been fighting between Muslims and Christians (who fought against the Dutch for independence) since the 1999 election. They have terrorist acts like bombing 2 tourist night clubs in the last 4 years.

The fighting since 1999 has mostly been between political factions. There are a few Islamic fundamentalist groups who have take advantage of the unrest to get attention from terrorist acts.



Moscow, muslims threaten a gay pride parade.
In Thailand they are killing Buddhists.
Muslim controlled Malasia is watching what happen intently with Thailand.
OPEC pushed the US to provide weapons for Muslims, who were fighting with the Serbs and Croats.
Rioting that involed stoning and shooting at the police all across Europe...
etc. etc. etc...
Your myopic view that militant Islam is only a Palestine/Israel issue, is getting tiresome. Why do you need to keep limiting the discussion?

You seem to have some rather pent up hatred of Muslims in general. There've been a few threats against gay pride parades by neo-conservative christian groups in the US. And as for what was Yugoslavia, that conflict was created by a political zealot and fed by a few radicals. Talk to anyone who is from the region and they'll tell you that they don't understand anything about religious conflict in the region.


(http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013068.php)
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013068.php (link to the original AP story included).

Now wait a minute. This jihad business is supposed to be coming from a tiny minority of extremists who have hijacked Islam, and who aren't even true Muslims at all, right? Isn't that what has been dinned into our ears for five years now, and has been reinforced this week in an avalanche of 9/11 commemorative articles in which American Muslims complain about being profiled and identified as terrorists?


So then why is it that when the United American Committee hanged Osama in effigy, the members of the King Fahd mosque didn't eagerly join in, happy for the chance to show that they're patriotic Americans who are outraged at what bin Laden and his ilk have done to their faith? Why instead did they mount counter-protests crying racism?
Like I said, moderates will go with the flow of Islam...

If you actually read the story, you'd have seen that the Muslims protesting those hanging Bin Laden in effigey and shouting "rember 9/11!" had already denounced the actions of any militant Islamic groups. What they were upset about were some hate-mongers trying to insinuate that their mosque supported Bin Laden.

Um, if you READ the article, you'd have noted the trailer from the original AP article which slams radical Jews:

"In 2003, Jewish Defense League activist Earl Krugel pleaded guilty to conspiring to bomb the mosque along with the office of San Diego congressman Darrell Issa."

So, do YOU side with radical militant Jewish groups like the JDL? If not, why aren't you protesting the JDL to help bring peace to the world? Are you one of the silent supporters?