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mr_punk
11-10-2006, 11:51 AM
How does that impact my point? I was just saying that being rude to a dancer because she doesn't raunch to your expectations is not an effective consumer technique.oh, i didn't say it impacted your point. i just think it's curious you find a customer wanting to get his dick rubbed in a sc (specifically, in a sc where dick rubbing is the standard dance) raunchy. sheesh...it's not like he's not asking her to finger herself.

Oh please. This from a man who rates professionalism<snip>oh, but i don't pay you for flakiness on your own time. i just find it funny, albeit unintentionally on your part. i'm thinking more along the lines of simply doing your job for which you are paid. IOW, if you're a contact dancer in a contact club with cock grinding. well, rubbing a cock with your asscheeks is doing your job.

Jenny
11-10-2006, 01:24 PM
oh, i didn't say it impacted your point. i just think it's curious you find a customer wanting to get his dick rubbed in a sc (specifically, in a sc where dick rubbing is the standard dance) raunchy. sheesh...it's not like he's not asking her to finger herself.
Well, she might not mind fingering herself. It might just be the thought of him touching her that makes her want to vomit. Just saying. I didn't mean "raunchy" in a particularly pejorative sense, but I don't find the behaviour described (as I said) to be qualitatively different from any guy who doesn't think he's getting enough bang for his buck, and "raunch" is a just a general term usage for that. Raunch is a spectrum, if you will, and he is complaining because of where on the spectrum she is.

oh, but i don't pay you for flakiness on your own time. i just find it funny, albeit unintentionally on your part. i'm thinking more along the lines of simply doing your job for which you are paid. IOW, if you're a contact dancer in a contact club with cock grinding. well, rubbing a cock with your asscheeks is doing your job.
You don't pay me at all. I keep having to point this out to you. And, not for nothing, but you don't mind certain KINDS of unprofessionalism - you know the kinds that get you jerked off or sucked off or don't even want to think about in a strip club, so it seems a little disingenous and hypocritical to bitch about the girls on the other end of that. If you're singing such a paean to professionalism, I think you're going to have to give up the in club handjobs. Are you prepared to do that? That's what I thought. So really - let the professional commentary go.

Jenny
11-10-2006, 01:35 PM
There's really no joy in it. I would greatly prefer to get dances that are in line w/ the general standards of the club, and pay handsomely for the privilege.
Splendid. Delightful even. I'm fine with the girls who do no contact, but I always wonder a little what they're thinking. If I were buying a dance I would want one that in the normal confines of the club standard too.


And as you established, it's unlikely that the dancer feels bad, given that she probably does not hold my behavior in high-enough regard for it to qualify as a meaningful assault on her core identity as a person or artiste. Sure, I personally view the idea of a "practitioner of the erotic arts," who lulls a PL into a sensual spell via movement alone, to be patently ridiculous and presumptuous -- in any club or setting.
Again, obviously, if when phrased like that it sounds absurd. But watching is not this incredibly rare niche fetish. Lot's of guys like it, and as I already pointed out, there are different kinds of non-contact dancing - and without trying to be all to much informationy (because I know you guys are shy) I know perfectly well that there are a lot of guys who prefer watching certain kinds of things to heavy contact. You may not be one of them, and I'm okay with that - like I'm not saying that you have less sensibility than these other guys, but it can't surprise you that such guys exist.


In the immediate context, though, she probably just thinks I'm another pig, or (if there's enough like me) that the demographic of that particular club is not sufficiently refined to appreciate her talents. The latter is what I'm hoping for.
Even better. But in the "post of contention" it really did sound like you wanted to hurt her feelings (even if you weren't likely to be successful) and would count it as a success if you managed to. And there is no point in trying to drive her out of the club by giving an impression of the demographic - after all, you already know her. You're not getting another dance.

mr_punk
11-10-2006, 03:09 PM
Well, she might not mind fingering herself. It might just be the thought of him touching her that makes her want to vomit.all the more reason why it should be obvious to her that's she's in over her head and should find a club that doesn't induce the symptoms of nausea.

I didn't mean "raunchy" in a particularly pejorative sense, but I don't find the behaviour described (as I said) to be qualitatively different from any guy who doesn't think he's getting enough bang for his buck, and "raunch" is a just a general term usage for that. Raunch is a spectrum, if you will, and he is complaining because of where on the spectrum she is.the raunch spectrum? LOL..hell, she isn't even on the low end for the club. in fact, she's not on it at all.

And, not for nothing, but you don't mind certain KINDS of unprofessionalism -you know the kinds that get you jerked off or sucked off or don't even want to think about in a strip club, so it seems a little disingenous and hypocritical to bitch about the girls on the other end of that.that's unprofessional? let's see..she agreed to sex. she performed sex in the RCG (which was quite dehydrating). i paid for a sex. she wrapped up and disposed of the condom in a cocktail napkin. sounds like she did her job to me.

So really - let the professional commentary go.no. what did i tell you about trying to train me.

Jenny
11-10-2006, 03:43 PM
all the more reason why it should be obvious to her that's she's in over her head and should find a club that doesn't induce the symptoms of nausea.
Maybe. But that's not something he or you have to worry about. He and you now know you don't want any more dances; that's all you need to know, isn't it?


the raunch spectrum? LOL..hell, she isn't even on the low end for the club. in fact, she's not on it at all.
Yes she is. That's just silly and is belying the entire concept of a spectrum. The idea of the spectrum is that is goes from very low to very high. She is very low. You can't just say that "low" is standard or only slightly below standard or else you have a very small spectrum that has limited usefulness.


that's unprofessional? let's see..she agreed to sex. she performed sex in the RCG (which was quite dehydrating). i paid for a sex. she wrapped up and disposed of the condom in a cocktail napkin. sounds like she did her job to me.
Yes, that is unprofessional. I might similarly say: She took off her clothes. She was paid to take off her clothes. She moved around a little. Sounds like she did her job to me. If the very low end is unprofessional, so is the very high. So either they are both professional and you enjoy the service of one and not the other, or they are both unprofessional and you just enjoy one brand of unprofessionalism and don't enjoy the other. Fine - and not entirely unexpected. But it is incoherent to argue that one girl who is, incidentally, performing a legal, policy allowed act is unprofessional while the other who is... not, is perfectly professional.


what did i tell you about trying to train me.
Hmm. What did I say back?

mr_punk
11-10-2006, 04:05 PM
Maybe. But that's not something he or you have to worry about.maybe..my ass. there is no maybe about it. look, there's no shame in the fact that she can't cut the mustard and perform even the bare minimium. it is what it is. some girls just aren't cut out to strip or strip at certain clubs.

Yes she is. That's just silly and is belying the entire concept of a spectrum. The idea of the spectrum is that is goes from very low to very high. She is very low. You can't just say that "low" is standard or only slightly below standard or else you have a very small spectrum that has limited usefulness.no, it isn't silly. if a customer is at a contact club with grinding. look, you can grind light, medium or heavy, but air dancing isn't on the spectrum for that club. what do you think? customers come there for the air dances?

Yes, that is unprofessional. I might similarly say: She took off her clothes. She was paid to take off her clothes. She moved around a little. Sounds like she did her job to me. If the very low end is unprofessional, so is the very high.by "moved around a little"? do you mean she grinded lightly? if so, that's fine.

Star Player
11-10-2006, 07:01 PM
Yes I sure do. If a girl can't perform to my expectations, I will stop the dance (she gets zero) and get another girl who will give me my $20 worth.

In Houston grinding is standard fare and I have gotten these kinda close 2 way contact for as little as $5 and a free lunch off the menu (Dreamers Cabaret). And your telling me you won't grind for $20 LOL? Not at some of the clubs I go to.

JuliaPDX
11-10-2006, 08:28 PM
I am an air dancer, or rather used to be, I've been in retirement for about 3 years. I thought the girls were prostituting themselves and prefered to work in bars that didn't allow grinding, and I'm considering returning to work soon.

Scout
11-10-2006, 11:45 PM
^^^
Julia, air dances are possible to do and make tons of money. It depends on the area. Since you are in Portland, I doubt you'd do more than touch a shoulder.

I work in ATL and do amazingly well with air dances on the floor and light one-way, no grinding in VIP. The city works this way. If I were to work in Houston, I would make no money. Ever.

mr_punk
11-11-2006, 12:39 AM
I am an air dancer, or rather used to be, I've been in retirement for about 3 years. I thought the girls were prostituting themselves and prefered to work in bars that didn't allow grinding, and I'm considering returning to work soon.now, that's funny...an air dancer in platform shoes and booty shorts looks at a contact stripper and says, "i'm not whoring myself out like those girls". seriously, take the eyeball clawing upstairs and stay in an air dance club if you can't handle contact.

Bridgette
11-11-2006, 05:12 AM
why are dancers surprised that customers start to expect more and more contact?We're not ;) Heck, most of us aren't even surprised anymore that alot of guys expect to treat us as little more than blow-up dolls to be used as they like with no consideration that we might thoroughly and vehemently dislike what they're forcefully doing to us - our lack of shock doesn't stop us getting pissed off about it :P And it doesn't stop us believing that surely there must be some limit to guys' expectations, like realizing we're real humans with real feelings, and not expecting us to submit to their EVERY fucking whim - especially the abusive ones. Some of yall might be amazed at the level of physical force some guys employ, to get what they want from us. ::) So, I sometimes wonder why customers are surprised we might start to get physical and forceful, and damn defensive.


Maybe I missed something in the thread, but I don't recall anyone contesting this fact, certainly not I anyway.A few posts ago, some guys were trying to say that in some instances, they're happy with lower or no contact. I was merely saying that, I don't believe they wouldn't PREFER contact in any of those instances (and spend more money for it - hence, expectations...), if they could get it :P

Phil-W
11-11-2006, 05:18 AM
...You might lose your bet in as much as I've always been very sensative to body language. If I felt you were grinding away with metaphorically gritted teeth, I'd happily settle for the air dance on the grounds that I'd feel less uncomfortable because your teeth were less gritted.

Phil.


Or perhaps you could simply NOT spend money on a girl that is obviously miserable in your presence. Or you could just give her a lift somewhere. I'm sure that will stop the teeth-gritting.::)

Katrine,

Dancers by definition tend to approach most guys in a venue - you're business women out to earn a living - albiet in an unusual way/environment. You mean I should not spend money on a girl just trying to earn a living in a setting where she has to be 'nice' to guys she wouldn't normally want to associate with?

Are you seriously telling me that you enjoy dancing for every guy you get to give a PD to? At the risk of putting words into your mouth, I'll bet there are some dances you find relatively easy/fun to do, and some dances that leave a nasty taste in your mouth.

By definition, part of your job is giving dances to guy you don't like personally, and wouldn't give the time of day to outside of the venue. You're after the income, so of course you conceal your feelings (I'm the same: "Sure, I tell my boss - I don't mind working a bit late tonight").

I don't have too many illusions about what dancers think about their job - I've heard enough bitch-fests in my car over the years from dancers fuc*ed off by retarded customers to buy into the illusion that your job is all perfume and roses.

Ergo, because I've been interested in body language for years, there's every chance I'll pick up on when a dancer is uncomfortable doing a PD. She's probably one of a substantial minority of dancers that doesn't like that degree of contact, or has troubles outside of work, or doesn't like me personally, etc., and is thus trying to conceal that she's mentally counting the minutes until the dance finishes.

I'm actually pretty courteous by nature, and to go back to the original point, if a dancer is uncomfortable with dancing for me, and I read it in her body language, then I feel uncomfotable in my turn. Accordingly, I'd rather she toned down the dance to a level where she does feel comfortable, than have the two of us feeling a bit embarrassed.

As I said, I'm a customer with low grinding expectations.

So who would you rather dance for - a guy with low grinding expectations, or one that keeps pushing you to keeping grinding even harder even though you might not want to.

Bit of rhetorical question, that one?

Phil.

Bridgette
11-11-2006, 05:21 AM
Oh ferfucksake dude. We CHOOSE for whom we dance. Get it? ::)

And yeah, I think her question to you was a bit rhetorical. Kinda like that comment about giving someone a lift was rather backhanded. Maybe you should just put in your signature in huge bold glittery letters: I GIVE STRIPPERS LIFTS AFTER WORK!!! That way you won't have to repeat it so much in your posts :P

yoda57us
11-11-2006, 07:43 AM
I go to a club to see a dancer I like. the clubs closest to me are no contact, the contact clubs are bit of a drive. Because of this, over the years I have grown to enjoy the company of dancers in both types of clubs. I don't go into a non contact club expecting anything in the way of contact and I don't complain if I don't get it. For the most part I spend about the same in both types of clubs. Would I prefer that all of my SC experiences could take place in a contact environment? Well sure, I don't think anyone would deny that. Of course, some of the ladies I have met would not be dancing if they had to endure contact. I like who I like, the environment is secondary.

Casual Observer
11-11-2006, 08:14 AM
A few posts ago, some guys were trying to say that in some instances, they're happy with lower or no contact. I was merely saying that, I don't believe they wouldn't PREFER contact in any of those instances (and spend more money for it - hence, expectations...), if they could get it

I don't go to MA clubs specifically because there is no opportunity for contact whatsoever, generally speaking. Conversely, I make the drive to Providence because at least the opportunity for contact exists, the degree to which that is true being wholly dependent on the comfort of the dancer. Therefore, I've adjusted my SC environment to my stripper expectations.

Surely we can all agree that contact expectations are largely, if not entirely dependent on prevailing local norms?

xdamage
11-11-2006, 11:35 AM
I thought the girls were prostituting themselves and prefered to work in bars that didn't allow grinding

Okay, well this is honest, and it's fine to set your own limits. It's your body, your life, do with it what you like. OTOH it's not so cool to look down on those whose limits are set a little further out then your own. They aren't harming you directly, although there is an argument that they are indirectly doing so by engaging in behaviors that generally raise the expectations of how much customers can expect for their money, which indirectly affects how much you can make as an air dancer. Oh well, that's the nature of a free market. You'll end up either redefining your own limits, or finding other work (there is certainly no lack of opportunities in many other areas anymore).

Like I've said in the past, strip clubs aren't for everyone. Some customers don't have the right mindset for it and end up worse off for the experience. They'd be better off going out and trying to meet women OTC. But the same applies to a lot of girls in the business. If you don't have the right stuff, if you can't treat it as a business, you're better off getting out rather then ending up bitter and pissed off at everyone (i.e., men) because you don't want to (or don't have what it takes) to do some other type of work.

Katrine
11-11-2006, 03:52 PM
Oh ferfucksake dude. We CHOOSE for whom we dance. Get it? ::)

And yeah, I think her question to you was a bit rhetorical. Kinda like that comment about giving someone a lift was rather backhanded. Maybe you should just put in your signature in huge bold glittery letters: I GIVE STRIPPERS LIFTS AFTER WORK!!! That way you won't have to repeat it so much in your posts :P

THANK YOU! Phil, you are so, so clueless. Of course we dance for guys we can't stand. But I promise you, we are much better liars than you think. I've told a 300 lb man with rotting teeth that I wanted to fuck the shit out of him without flinching or throwing up in my mouth (you were so sweet mr_punk, I had to indulge your fantasy for the moment :D).

Believe me Phil, you have no idea. Listening to strippers bitch about customers doesn't mean jack shit. They are still going to be nice to you for driving their asses around. Your car and the cost of petrol equates to money in their pockets.

BUT, in the case that a girl is dancing for you and you can feel her trembling with displeasure; this girl simply isn't cut out for her role. If I was in your shoes, I would excuse her to find another girl who is comfortable being nekkid around me, its that simple.

Phil-W
11-11-2006, 05:31 PM
Believe me Phil, you have no idea. Listening to strippers bitch about customers doesn't mean jack shit. They are still going to be nice to you for driving their asses around. Your car and the cost of petrol equates to money in their pockets.

BUT, in the case that a girl is dancing for you and you can feel her trembling with displeasure; this girl simply isn't cut out for her role. If I was in your shoes, I would excuse her to find another girl who is comfortable being nekkid around me, its that simple.

Katrine,

(a) We are in completely different environments. You are dancing in lap dance clubs in the US - I go into strip pubs in the London (UK) area. The ethos, operating principles, and atmosphere are totally different.

(b) The only dancers I regularly give lifts to are three who are friends outside of work. I spend significantly more time with them socially than when they're working. One, for example, is studying for a degree. I enjoy helping her with those studies and find that a far more rewarding use of my time than giving her lifts to/from work. We usually manage to kill a bottle of wine at the same time - I can think of worse ways of spending an evening.

(c) I'm afraid I've gradually lost the ability to take dancing very seriously. I watch dancers at work manipulating guys in order to earn and the guys taking it all so seriously and I smile.

It's a way of making a living that has many advantages - being your own boss, flexibility of hours, potentially very good earnings, etc. It's got disadvantages - stressful work environment, emotional problems resulting from the job, etc.

But when push comes to shove, the main motivation for a dancer is the money - I don't know any dancers that dance for free. OK, there are some dancers that quite like what they do, but that doesn't mean they don't regard it as a source of income.

Which brings me back to grinding expectations.

To gain said income, if that's the expectation in your area, you have to grind. If you don't some other girl will; and take the resulting income. I've no idea what your limits are - and how comfortable you are grinding. (That's personal to you and your choice entirely).

The point I was making was: if you were given the choice of doing air dances, or grinding to make the same income, which would you take? Most dancers I know would opt for air dances - they do the extra contact for economic reasons.

Which is why I've always been happy to have low or no contact dances on the relatively rare occassions I have them. I don't take it seriously, and if the dancer knows me well enough she knows that I'm not fussed about contact anyway, so the general result is an air dance.

Come to that, if they know me well enough, they know they're perfectly welcome not to take it seriously either. It's not uncommon for the pair of us to end up grinning at each other on the grounds we both find it a faintly ridiculous exercise. Indeed one dancer can do a superb cariciture of a dancer doing a serious lap dance - she and I both find that very amusing.

Each to their own - everyone way of getting on with things. As far as grinding goes (or even taking dancing at face value) I reserve the right to take things distinctly non-seriously.

Phil.

cristo58
11-11-2006, 05:37 PM
I am an air dancer, or rather used to be, I've been in retirement for about 3 years. I thought the girls were prostituting themselves and prefered to work in bars that didn't allow grinding, and I'm considering returning to work soon.

(taking a second look at this question)

Now this I can understand and see, but you have the choice of a lot of clubs that vary in level of dancer contact with the customers in our area. From what I've gathered, on SCN, is that most clubs, across the country, do not offer as many options for dancers out there and if they want to work, they dance to what the standards are for that club and they may have the same exact feelings you do about "extra" girls........

I'm not to sure about this 'gentamanly' conduct idea though, IMO most dancers are not impressed with this notion.....they like a customer who gets it, that this is a business, maybe have a little respect for the job they do, and come to enjoy the show either on the pole or in the vip and tip accordingly ......

Yes, when given a choice between nude and topless dancing, I prefer nude; and given a choice between air dances and lap dances I'll take a lap dance every time. Because in my area these are the choices I have from the variety of the clubs in PDX...... you can even go to "Jack shacks" if you want ............. I prefer the contact that is allowed in these clubs over the other options ......

I do beieve that ultimately it is up to the dancer to decide her comfort level of contact and not compromise her standards and then blame the environment she works in for doing it/or the customer she does it for......again IMHO (I can see the newspaper being rolled to smack me)

xdamage
11-11-2006, 05:59 PM
But I promise you, we are much better liars than you think. I've told a 300 lb man with rotting teeth that I wanted to fuck the shit out of him without flinching or throwing up in my mouth

Actually, I find this interesting. Because I couldn't do it, and I often wonder how does a stripper pull this off without throwing up. Customers can do some things to improve their own experience by making it a little less unpleasant for the dancer.

I'm fairly certain that dancing for a guy my age has to make most girls terribly uncomfortable. OTOH I'm not overweight, I have all my teeth, I keep them clean and flossed, my hair trimmed, my body in shape by working out daily, I wear good clothes, and shower before going to the club. Because I wouldn't want a stinky, over weight, no toothed stripper on my lap. I really don't get though how guys go to the club, making no effort at all, or downright unpleasantly stinky, and don't get that of course they are going to have a crappy experience. While I don't expect that to alleviate the EWW this old guy is gross factor, it's a duh that if the guy doesn't completely gross out the stripper he is going to have a better time too.

FBR
11-11-2006, 08:18 PM
X, you are probably being tongue in cheek but ya know...I think the strippers are more comfy with us older fuckers as long as we have money to spend. We are from a more polite generation and have conversational skills beyond "yo..yo..wassup".

FBR

evan_essence
11-11-2006, 08:20 PM
that's unprofessional? let's see..she agreed to sex. she performed sex in the RCG (which was quite dehydrating). i paid for a sex. she wrapped up and disposed of the condom in a cocktail napkin. sounds like she did her job to me.Honey, really, when you seek a woman out to perform an act for you that's outlined as a crime in most states, why are you surprised when she has a criminal mindset and shortchanges you? You should thank your lucky stars whenever you get what you paid for. When you don't, crying unprofessional is quite laughable. Perhaps you should file a fraud complaint with police next time you get cheated.


now, that's funny...an air dancer in platform shoes and booty shorts looks at a contact stripper and says, "i'm not whoring myself out like those girls". seriously, take the eyeball clawing upstairs and stay in an air dance club if you can't handle contact.Actually, she used the word "prostituting," which again, like it or not, in most states, that's exactly how the criminal code defines the level of contact in exchange for money which she's discussing. So, in spite of most of you guys living in a state of denial that $20 is too little compensation in exchange for the stripper's risk of having her picture on a sex offender website for life, there's a perfectly valid basis for those semantics.

-Ev

xdamage
11-11-2006, 08:44 PM
X, you are probably being tongue in cheek but ya know...I think the strippers are more comfy with us older fuckers as long as we have money to spend. We are from a more polite generation and have conversational skills beyond "yo..yo..wassup".

FBR

Maybe, but I can't help but feel at times that it's just so much back patting. Not that I plan on not going to the club, but if I look back to when I was in my 20s and try to put myself in their shoes, I find myself choking back a little bile.

Of course as you said, we have money to spend, often a lot of it, which I suppose is a kind of Ant-acid for strippers ;D

xdamage
11-11-2006, 08:48 PM
Actually, she used the word "prostituting," which again, like it or not, in most states, that's exactly how the criminal code defines the level of contact in exchange for money which she's discussing. So, in spite of most of you guys living in a state of denial that $20 is too little compensation in exchange for the stripper's risk of having her picture on a sex offender website for life, there's a perfectly valid basis for those semantics.
-Ev

You make a valid point regarding the legal definition, but I know you've been around when the personal definitions have been argued, and very few if any strippers perceive themselves as "prostitutes" based on their personal limits, and they weren't all low contact dancers. Just saying... that argument is valid, but I would have said "in spite of most of you guys AND GALS living in a state of ..."

The other thing I'd add to this is that last time I was in Norway, while "prostitution" was legal, it was still heavily frowned on by society, and I think you'd still find that people could perceive a difference between air dancing, contact with clothes on, and other forms of sex for money. In other words, I don't buy the there is "no moral" issue. Even when it's legalized, the moral issues about how much sex for money is too much will remain (as evidenced by societies that have legalized prostitution). Still, not all girls will sell sex, and still many people in the society may have moral views that a certain level of contact is too much.

mr_punk
11-12-2006, 07:03 AM
Surely we can all agree that contact expectations are largely, if not entirely dependent on prevailing local norms?sure. i don't go to tame sc clubs with unacceptable levels of contact..period. i'm not going to waste my precious time fu#king around begging, pleading or cajoling (ie:"but debbie lets me do it") some stripper to touch her elbow. sorry, but that's lame. furthermore, why even bother when there are other sc with girls that get very nasty.

I've told a 300 lb man with rotting teeth that I wanted to fuck the shit out of him without flinching or throwing up in my mouth (you were so sweet mr_punk, I had to indulge your fantasy for the moment ).uhh...actually, you did flinch and throw up a bit after i gave you a $50 to DFK, kat. but hey, it was a good thing you had italian that day. man, i just love italian...yum.

Honey, really, when you seek a woman out to perform an act for you that's outlined as a crime in most states, why are you surprised when she has a criminal mindset and shortchanges you? You should thank your lucky stars whenever you get what you paid for. When you don't, crying unprofessional is quite laughable. Perhaps you should file a fraud complaint with police next time you get cheated.LOL...hold on, a LD is the sign of a criminal deviant? then again, using your logic. stripping is a cash business which gives plenty of opportunity for tax avoidance and evasion. so, you would know. anyway, that's some serious eyeball clawing, evan..LOL.

Actually, she used the word "prostituting," which again, like it or not, in most states, that's exactly how the criminal code defines the level of contact in exchange for money which she's discussing.which is all the more reason to take my advice and stay away from contact clubs...problem solved. otherwise, take it up with your local congressman or keep the eyeball clawing in the dressing room.

So, in spite of most of you guys living in a state of denial that $20 is too little compensation in exchange for the stripper's risk of having her picture on a sex offender website for life, there's a perfectly valid basis for those semantics.speaking of risk...IIRC, this stripper wanted to work the SB in houston. officially, houston has a 3-foot rule. unofficially, it's a different story. in any case, this broad she went to ASPD (oh yeah, them houston boys gave her a real friendly reality check..LOL) looking for a "clean" club to work because she was a "clean" dancer. oh well, i guess because she had a criminal mindset. she wasn't too worried about being a marked sex offender for life (not to mention taking money away from the local girls) as long as the money is right.

yoda57us
11-12-2006, 08:05 AM
Actually, I find this interesting. Because I couldn't do it, and I often wonder how does a stripper pull this off without throwing up.


Because it's her job.

xdamage
11-12-2006, 08:34 AM
Because it's her job.

Actually I was thinking more of the choice of doing another job where a girl doesn't have to pretend to like guys they don't like, versus choosing to strip. But yes, it must be that the money or something about the job is compelling enough that they cope. Still, I have passed on several higher paying jobs because of crappier work conditions. Money matters but it's not the only factor for me, and if the job really was miserable I'd take less money, but that's me.

Bridgette
11-12-2006, 08:53 AM
Regarding how we get along without puking after every other dance: Xdamage is right in his assumptions. There's really only a certain type of woman who can do this job. Despite the recent influx into the business of women who might not ordinarily do it (whether the motivation is economic or media-social), we are still waaaayy in the minority of all women. Do yall have any idea how many chics try it, can't stomach it, and run away with their tails between their legs? Or how many only daydream about it, but never get up the nerve? It's mainly because they can't deal with the MEN - ie, they can't stomach having to deal with nasty, stinky, sweaty, or old dudes. Or any combo thereof. Tons of girls run screaming away from this business before they've even cut their stripper teeth, because they can't handle it, even though they might REALLY want/need the money. So, that only leaves those of us who CAN stomach it. Maybe our gastrointestinal fortitude is just a little stronger than average ;D

Xdamage is ALSO right, that if you do things to make yourself as non-repulsive as possible, you will have a better time with the stripper, because she won't be too busy trying not to breathe, for example.

As far as the prostitution thing. The legal risk Ev brings up is very real. That's the point. It's not so much about any of our personal definitions of prostitution, because that's not gonna make a damn bit of difference in the world when the stripper is getting ticketed, arrested, etc. So, I second her comment that yall are living in a state of denial that $20 (or any amount for that matter) is too little compensation for the LEGAL risk involved. :P

Pretty_Penny
11-12-2006, 10:40 AM
here in tampa you can get full (both ways) contact and heavy grinding lapdances for 10 bucks a pop. it's very common. i don't work at those clubs anymore. i'd rather give a more sensual dance for a higher price in a more upscale club and walk out with the same (or more) money. why i didn't move clubs earlier is beyond me.

Phil-W
11-12-2006, 11:12 AM
here in tampa you can get full (both ways) contact and heavy grinding lapdances for 10 bucks a pop. it's very common. i don't work at those clubs anymore. i'd rather give a more sensual dance for a higher price in a more upscale club and walk out with the same (or more) money. why i didn't move clubs earlier is beyond me.

Here in London, relatively light one way contact in the pubs is £10 - £20 depending on the venue, say $15 - $30.

I believe both ways contact is available at private parties at £40 upwards (say $60).

Looks like things are a bit different in the States.

Phil.

Katrine
11-12-2006, 02:56 PM
It's a way of making a living that has many advantages - being your own boss, flexibility of hours, potentially very good earnings, etc. It's got disadvantages - stressful work environment, emotional problems resulting from the job, etc.

But when push comes to shove, the main motivation for a dancer is the money - I don't know any dancers that dance for free. OK, there are some dancers that quite like what they do, but that doesn't mean they don't regard it as a source of income.

Which brings me back to grinding expectations.

To gain said income, if that's the expectation in your area, you have to grind. If you don't some other girl will; and take the resulting income. I've no idea what your limits are - and how comfortable you are grinding. (That's personal to you and your choice entirely).

The point I was making was: if you were given the choice of doing air dances, or grinding to make the same income, which would you take? Most dancers I know would opt for air dances - they do the extra contact for economic reasons.



Yeah Phil, I danced for many years, but thanks for reminding me what its about. You're quite the insider. ::)

There's a difference between putting up with grinding because it makes you more money, to being disguisting with the act. If you can't handle it to the point you are traumatized, either go to an airdance club, make less money, or do something else.

Me, I was perfectly fine with grinding. I am both lazy and ambitious if that makes sense. Airdancing is a lot more work to keep interesting than a grind. Plus, grinding makes more money. Too much grinding makes custy chafe or come in pants, so its important to learn technique.

Katrine
11-12-2006, 03:00 PM
Actually, I find this interesting. Because I couldn't do it, and I often wonder how does a stripper pull this off without throwing up.


Exactly, you don't know! You are a customer. So, next time you try to psychoanalyze Jenny, me, your ATF, your mom, and ever other slut out there, perhaps you should realize that reducing our actions down to primitive human biology leaves out multiple important social factors, so STFU, sweets. :-X

BTW, have you seen Kinsey? I saw it last night. It sort of reminds me of this place. I will start thread in appropriate section.

yoda57us
11-12-2006, 03:09 PM
Actually I was thinking more of the choice of doing another job where a girl doesn't have to pretend to like guys they don't like, versus choosing to strip. But yes, it must be that the money or something about the job is compelling enough that they cope. Still, I have passed on several higher paying jobs because of crappier work conditions. Money matters but it's not the only factor for me, and if the job really was miserable I'd take less money, but that's me.

Are you playing with me here X? How can you even begin to make the comparison? I know dancers with Masters degrees who can't find a real job that pays what dancing does. For the women with less or no education you are comparing Wal-Mart money with dancer money. Get real, you've passed on what? Maybe a swing of a few grand a year to be happy. That's great but I'm assuming the job you stayed at probably paid pretty well too.

You can't compare the two. Dancers dance because the money is significantly better than the money they could make doing anything else.
Not every woman can do it and many of those who can are affected by it.
Why would anyone choose this for any reason other than large amounts of money?

Phil-W
11-12-2006, 04:34 PM
There's a difference between putting up with grinding because it makes you more money, to being disguisting with the act. If you can't handle it to the point you are traumatized, either go to an airdance club, make less money, or do something else.

Me, I was perfectly fine with grinding. I am both lazy and ambitious if that makes sense. Airdancing is a lot more work to keep interesting than a grind. Plus, grinding makes more money. Too much grinding makes custy chafe or come in pants, so its important to learn technique.

I just wonder where it will all end. When I was an innocent 18 year old (some 30 years ago now) I used to watch dancers in a Brighton (UK) pub. There's be a single dancer on towards the end of the night and she'd do two spots. First was topless only, second was nude, but only full frontal - no more explicit than that.

Private dances were unknown, grinding was definately unknown and it was more erotic than explicit.

I can even remember strips going on for three tracks and the dancers stripping out of several layers of clothing. Definately bygone days.

Seeing what's happened over the passage of time I almost shudder to think what dancers will be required to do to earn their money in another 30 years time.

Phil.

Katrine
11-12-2006, 04:49 PM
There's a difference between putting up with grinding because it makes you more money, to being disguisting with the act.

Airdancing is a lot more work to keep interesting than a grind. .

What's wrong with me today, I've forgotten how to spell!

xdamage
11-12-2006, 05:51 PM
Exactly, you don't know! You are a customer. So, next time you try to psychoanalyze Jenny, me, your ATF, your mom, and ever other slut out there, perhaps you should realize that reducing our actions down to primitive human biology leaves out multiple important social factors, so STFU, sweets. :-X


Okay, first, again I have no ATF, for the Nth time. Second, this is the blue site, not the dancers site. The dancer site is the place to go if you want uniform support and agreement. Third, your implication that I view all women as sluts is sad, but a typical "if your not with us your against us" tactic. Tricky, but that's the tactic of someone who just wants to win a discussion, regardless of what's true.

I don't have unlimited pity for you or Jenny when it comes to dancing (or men) complaints. Why? Because you're both healthy, good looking, intelligent, I assume have help with paying for school, live in countries and a time that offers more opportunities then any other in the past. It doesn't get much better, the cards are stacked in your favor, so if you're unhappy with choosing dancing, at some point someone is going to tell you it's your decision to dance. If you can't cope with hearing that, put me on ignore.

Seriously, it's not my job to see to it that you're perfectly happy all the time, or to agree with you all of the time, and I'm not one of your spineless bitch boys who is just going to tell you what you want to hear.

And while I do have some compassion for the hardships of dancing, and I'm willing to hear it, it's still ultimately your choice to do that versus something else, and neither of you get's the pity I might give to someone born ugly, unhealthy, no school, who really has limited choices. So rather then me shutting the fuck up, I'd suggest closing your ears and surrounding yourself with people that tell you only what you want to hear.

On the positive side you did finish with "sweets" ;)




Are you playing with me here X? How can you even begin to make the comparison? I know dancers with Masters degrees who can't find a real job that pays what dancing does.


Stop. Of course she can't but your conclusion from that is (imho) totally backwards.

My parents saved $0 for school, and saving nothing to help me or my sister out when we left home. So I put up with a crappy salary for much of my life, and lived fairly poorly, worked two jobs to pay my bills, and paid for my own school, in order to get the experience to eventually be paid more, so that 10-15 years later after putting in much overtime, and doing more then the other guy, I'm making a lot more. So no I'm definitely not kidding. While I understand some women can't get any better job, some can, but still may have to trade off short term gains for long term higher paying salaries. Plus if you factor in the dancing job is making some girls miserable, bitter, unhappy, no I'm definitely not kidding, there are other choices, even if they don't pay as much now.

You're friend with the Masters who can't get paid as much working in her field as dancing. So? Of course not, but that's irrelevant. I'd tell her she should be busting her ass now so that 10 years from now when she has been promoted past all the other people that just did the minimum, she'll be making a decent salary, and doing so well past her 40s she'll be making good money and benefits.

She may never make as much pure cash working in her career as she makes dancing, but come around age 35-40, when she has a salary, she has skills that will let her find another job, she has insurance for herself and her kids, and so on, she'll look back and be happy that she choose long term vs short term. OTOH, she chould take the short term cash now, anid when 35-40 comes, hope that it just all works for her - good luck with that.

p.s., many of the women on this sight are not the types of girls who can't do anything else. They are they one's that have other choices too, and they are the ones my messages are directed at.

yoda57us
11-12-2006, 06:24 PM
Comparing your situation to a dancers situation is irrelevant. When you where working your ass off to put yourself through school dancing naked in front of strangers for a lot of money wasn't an option for you. If you where a woman it would have been and, who knows, you may have even decided to give it a try.

Yes, some women can get a better job and they do. My friend with the masters has a day job, she dances at night and will until her school loans are paid off.

There are, to be sure, women who are dancing that probably are not tough enough to handle it for long. However, by and large the women I've met in clubs had a firm grip on reality and knew exactly why they where there.

I don't think Kat, Jenny or any of the dancers I know are looking for "pity" from you, me or any other customers. The fact that you seem to think they are says more about the way you view them than the way they view themselves.

There's a huge difference between sympathy, or pity, and empathy.

Casual Observer
11-12-2006, 08:17 PM
I'd tell her she should be busting her ass now so that 10 years from now when she has been promoted past all the other people that just did the minimum, she'll be making a decent salary, and doing so well past her 40s she'll be making good money and benefits.

The problem with your analogy here is that it doesn't fly at all in the modern economy. I'm not even a dancer, but after fruitlessly searching for two years I recently took an IT job that pays very well since I couldn't find decent paying work in my preferred field--and I have my MA, to boot. People don't stay in jobs for ten years anymore; there's too much insecurity in the workforce.

With regard to dancers, it's really all about opportunity cost. IF you look the part, IF you can handle the work, IF you approach it as a career, IF you make judicious choices with regard to education and investment, it's no less viable than traditional employment options but it's considerably more lucrative, even when factoring in the reality of multiple career changes. Some of the girls on this site fall into that category; most don't.

xdamage
11-12-2006, 09:40 PM
Comparing your situation to a dancers situation is irrelevant. When you where working your ass off to put yourself through school dancing naked in front of strangers for a lot of money wasn't an option for you. If you where a woman it would have been and, who knows, you may have even decided to give it a try.


Exactly, but you're interpretation of that is twisted imho.

The option to dance is just one more option, and it means that women even have another high paying option most men don't have when they are younger. If stripping was illegal as of tomorrow, they'd have one less option, and would have to choose among all ther others that men have to choose from.

The proper viewpoint should be, great women have yet another option, but it's not the only option, and it's not an option most men would even consider. And if a women ends up choosing that option, and ends up 10-15 years of experience behind a man in her future career, then what?

Unless you believe that dancers are basically just dim-wits, unable to weight their choices, because the alure of a high paying dancing choice prevents them from considering other options. Is that what you are suggesting? Because you seem to be arguing that as long as stripping is the highest paying choice, that it doesn't make sense for a woman to choose anything else when she is young, which I claim is an incredibly foolish outlook.

And I'd say, quite the opposite, what she makes $$s when she is young isn't the only consideration at all. First, if a woman doesn't have what it takes emotionally to cope with the job, then it's a terrible choice, despite the alure of the money. If she ends up bitter, hateful of men, unhappy, it's a crappy choice. Second, she does have to consider that the time she spends dancing is time she is not spending in her field, time that she could be spending writing, networking, and so on that does tend to pay off over the long run.

Bottom line is I don't think every woman has what it takes emotionally to be a dancer. Too many end up bitter, hateful of men, no future, and then of course, can't tolerate the idea that they had something to do with any of that. It's just stuff outside them that forced them into choosing the highest paying option present at the moment.



The problem with your analogy here is that it doesn't fly at all in the modern economy. I'm not even a dancer, but after fruitlessly searching for two years I recently took an IT job that pays very well since I couldn't find decent paying work in my preferred field--and I have my MA, to boot. People don't stay in jobs for ten years anymore; there's too much insecurity in the workforce.


I was responding to Yoda's suggestion that his friend with the Master's couldn't find a job that pays as much as dancing. He didn't say she couldn't find work at all, just that it didn't pay as much, which is a duh - it takes time in a field to work your way up to the point where it pays well.



With regard to dancers, it's really all about opportunity cost. IF you look the part, IF you can handle the work, IF you approach it as a career, IF you make judicious choices with regard to education and investment, it's no less viable than traditional employment options but it's considerably more lucrative, even when factoring in the reality of multiple career changes. Some of the girls on this site fall into that category; most don't.


That was not the issue.

The issue is that even though no education is required to strip, not every woman has what it takes to actually do the job and without incurring a lot of emotional problems as a result. And that it's not the only choice, particulary for a health, attractive, intelligent women who's parents are helping her with college expenses. As compared with other women in the world, or in times past, the other choices aren't going to get any more easy then that.

And if a woman ends up stripping, and has a big chip on her shoulder as a result, well too bad if people around her say you know, you have a big ass shit on your shoulder.

It's also very short-sighted to only consider how much money one makes NOW in a field, when most high paying fields do require people to pay their dues, many times over 10-15yrs, and exceptional success often requires a lot of sacrifice for higher pay later in life.

And in terms of opportunities and other options, a good looking, healthy, intelligent woman, in school, has a lot of other choices. Choices that almost assuredly will pay less to start, but ultimately can pay more, particularly after 35 or so when their stripping career will wind down. So I don't buy that none of the women that strip have NO other choices. Still, it wouldn't be such a bad choice if they had what it takes emotionally to do it. But if they end bitter, pissed off at men, blaiming the world for their outcome, well then they made a bad choice about how to spend their younger years.

Look, it's normal that people weigh short term gains versus long term gains, and normal to pick the short term over long term. It's also very predictable that some women are going to be attracted to a high paying job that doesn't require them to meet deadlines, that lets them enjoy sexuality and control over men, and places little demands on them other then what they place on theirselves. But it's not the ONLY choice, but it's appleaing to a certain type. And for a woman with good looks, health, intelligence, parents paying for school, it's absolutely NOT the only choice she has, it's just the short-term appealing choice, but it's not necessarily the long term wise choice.

It's also very predicatable that a lot will end up with a big chip on their shoulders, bitter with the half of the species, unable to really see it as business without also hating the people that use their services.

But at some point though, when a woman forgoes her long term career, or ends up years behind her peers, plus ends up bitter, unhappy, generally pissed off at the male half of the species because she picked dancing over a career that would have payed less to start, you can sympathize so much, but when the next girl comes along heading down the same path, it's not gonig to hurt them for you to say you know, you seem to be bitter, hateful of men, you have other options, maybe dancing is a really bad choice for you (even if it does pay more now).

Jenny
11-12-2006, 09:53 PM
I don't think Kat, Jenny or any of the dancers I know are looking for "pity" from you, me or any other customers. The fact that you seem to think they are says more about the way you view them than the way they view themselves.

There's a huge difference between sympathy, or pity, and empathy.
Actually is it just me or was Kat asking him to shut the fuck up - which is a far cry from sympathy, empathy or pity? I don't remember a single post of mine, Kat's, Nic's, evan's or any regular female poster here that was requesting pity. Just sayin.

dayzed
11-12-2006, 09:58 PM
Heck, most of us aren't even surprised anymore that alot of guys expect to treat us as little more than blow-up dolls to be used as they like with no consideration that we might thoroughly and vehemently dislike what they're forcefully doing to us - our lack of shock doesn't stop us getting pissed off about it :P
But let's not conflate all mileage hounds with gropers. I may pitch a shameless tent, but I always figuratively sit on my hands. After all, forceful/groping behavior on the part of a customer seems like terrible strategy for receiving good grindage.

<snip other responses to the post I wrote advocating premature cessation of an air dance> in the "post of contention" it really did sound like you wanted to hurt her feelings (even if you weren't likely to be successful) and would count it as a success if you managed to.
I probably infused the "p.o.c." with a bit too much message-board bravado. My point was that I have learned to move quickly in the event of an air-dance. No snarky comments, no insults; I stop the proceedings, thank her, pay her, and get up and go.
<s> most of you guys living in a state of denial that $20 is too little compensation in exchange for the stripper's risk of having her picture on a sex offender website for life, there's a perfectly valid basis for those semantics.
No denial here. I've always found the $20 tag of a high-contact lap to be shockingly low. That's why I tip well. Again -- I'm trying to encourage the behavior.

In Houston grinding is standard fare and I have gotten these kinda close 2 way contact for as little as $5 and a free lunch off the menu (Dreamers Cabaret).
Another reason to overtip: gaining (admittedly artificial) separation from the low-life, extras-seeking masses. I know, I'm being an eyeball-clawing customer.

Jenny
11-12-2006, 10:09 PM
I probably infused the "p.o.c." with a bit too much message-board bravado. My point was that I have learned to move quickly in the event of an air-dance. No snarky comments, no insults; I stop the proceedings, thank her, pay her, and get up and go.
Alright then, I'm very happy.


No denial here. I've always found the $20 tag of a high-contact lap to be shockingly low. That's why I tip well. Again -- I'm trying to encourage the behavior.
Well, now I'm even happier. Of course, here I'm unlikely to be arrested for grinding; so I'm not likely to be a sex offender.


Another reason to overtip: gaining (admittedly artificial) separation from the low-life, extras-seeking masses. I know, I'm being an eyeball-clawing customer.
Even happier. Hmm. Dayzed... I know we got off to a bad start... but...

I'm kidding. For me to suck up that much on this board, I'm pretty sure that you have to be in possession of a vagina.

dayzed
11-12-2006, 10:22 PM
But at some point though, when a woman forgoes her long term career, or ends up years behind her peers, plus ends up bitter, unhappy, generally pissed off at the male half of the species because she picked dancing over a career that would have payed less to start, you can sympathize so much, but when the next girl comes along heading down the same path, it's not gonig to hurt them for you to say you know, you seem to be bitter, hateful of men, you have other options, maybe dancing is a really bad choice for you (even if it does pay more now).
You keep beating this same drum from thread to thread. You've got a bunch of posts in this big paean to strip clubs called SCJ, so presumably you like them. Aren't you glad that some women choose to work in them? What's with the constant demeaning of the profession? Who is going to grind on us if the clubs empty?

And, this comment will probably get deleted, but I've gotta say it -- plz wait a few minutes after composing, so as to view your words with distance and perspective. Use "preview post". Eliminate redundant sentences and/or paragraphs. Your readership will love you for it.

xdamage
11-12-2006, 11:01 PM
You keep beating this same drum from thread to thread. You've got a bunch of posts in this big paean to strip clubs called SCJ, so presumably you like them. Aren't you glad that some women choose to work in them? What's with the constant demeaning of the profession? Who is going to grind on us if the clubs empty?


"...if the clubs (are) empty?" - if that's what you read, the problem is in your head, not in what I wrote. That's an all (every girl should dance) or nothing (no girl should dance) way to look at what was written, but it's not what I wrote (and if you had been reading, you would have seen that I really dislike when people think like that).

Am I glad some women choose to work in the SCs. Yes, Am I glad that all women that working in the SCs are doing so? No. Some of them shouldn't be in the business, they don't have what it takes to keep it about business. And even for those in the business, I don't recommend they do it for long. None of that leads to the clubs being "empty" - there really is something between all or nothing.

As for "demeaning the profession", apparently you have a mind that can only grasp extremes. Let me try to explain it to you then. It's not necessarily a bad stint for a few years for a girl that can handle it. But not all can. If you come across a girl that it's clearly taking a toll on emotionally, suggesting she is in the wrong job doesn't demean the entire profession. However, in case you haven't noticed there aren't a lot of over 40 strippers. But there are a lot of women over 40. And may you haven't been keeping up, but a lot of women have been complaining that they haven't been given opportunities to compete in jobs that men hold, jobs that continue paying until the ages 65+. It's not demeaning the profession to face the facts that it's not a life time choice. And it's not demeaning to suggest a girl plan for the future, and work towards a future that will secure her well past 40.




Actually is it just me or was Kat asking him to shut the fuck up


Yes, that would be correct. Then again, I'm not her bitch.

As for the point about pity, if that alluded you, let me try to explain it again. If you don't like dancing, or you can't tolerate the clientele, and you refuse to pursue other lines of work, and you have the looks, health, intelligence, and education to do so, then I figure you just want to be unhappy (maybe even enjoy the drama of it).

And while you weren't asking for pity directly, you do so indirectly when you complain about stripping, or men and demand that others agree with you, or throw a tantrum and demand others STFU so that you can avoid any negative feedback. Just use /ignore if you don't like the negative feedback. Simple.

You have the right to dance, and post however you like, but you don't get the right to demand everyone else has to agree that you're a victim, that its healthy to stay in a job you despise, or that you have no other choices, or that your attitudes about it or the men you server are healthy.

If you don't want to read those points of view, just put me on ignore. Then I can express them as I see as right and you can ignore them and enjoy. And if I want to say I think you should get out of the business and purse something else, I can do so, and you can ignore it and everyone is happy.

Clearer?

Katrine
11-12-2006, 11:29 PM
Oh jesus the jew, arguing with you is like trying to orgasm without touching my clit.

dayzed
11-12-2006, 11:39 PM
"...if the clubs (are) empty?" - if that's what you read, the problem is in your head, not in what I wrote.
(Man, it's tough dealing with the overly-literal ::) ...) Yes, I understand that you do not wish to literally empty the clubs. I posed this (hypothetical) question in order to illustrate that your posts seem to have no real point. You demean the choice to dance as short-sighted, sabotaging of one's future, a trading of long-term security for short-term rewards, a path of least resistance suitable only for the intellectually lazy and feeble... etc. etc etc... intentionally or no, these are the points your posts continually make... if you are not picketing at the figurative dressing-room door against the pitfalls of dancing then what is your point exactly?

Some of them shouldn't be in the business, they don't have what it takes to keep it about business. And even for those in the business, I don't recommend they do it for long.
Oh, I see -- free (and unsolicited) career guidance for fledgling strippers. Well, that's quite a public service you're offering. However, I don't know why you think it's of interest to strip club junkies or the girls who post here.

xdamage
11-12-2006, 11:53 PM
You demean the choice to dance as short-sighted, sabotaging of one's future, a trading of long-term security for short-term rewards, a path of least resistance suitable only for the intellectually lazy and feeble... etc. etc etc... intentionally or no, these are the points your posts continually make... if you are not picketing at the figurative dressing-room door against the pitfalls of dancing then what is your point exactly?


Alright, I'll repost this part again...

---

As for "demeaning the profession".... It's not necessarily a bad stint for a few years for a girl that can handle it. But not all can. If you come across a girl that it's clearly taking a toll on emotionally, suggesting she is in the wrong job doesn't demean the entire profession.

However, in case you haven't noticed there aren't a lot of over 40 strippers. But there are also a lot of women over 40. And maybe you haven't been keeping up, but a lot of women have been complaining that they haven't been given opportunities to compete in jobs that men hold, jobs that continue paying until the ages 65+. They will be competing with men who spent their pre-40 years working in their fields. Guess who is going to get promoted later in life?

It's not demeaning the profession to face the facts that it's not a life time choice. And it's not demeaning to suggest a girl plan for the future, and work towards a future that will secure her well past 40.

You really don't understand that? You really don't understand that later in life a girl will be competing with other men and women who have been in their respective fields longer, and where age and experience can be an asset in a lot of jobs, age can end up being a strippers worst enemy?

And lets not over glamorize it, a stripper will be competing with yet more gilrs who have no education, younger, prettier, maybe willing to do more for less? No, I don't see anything demeaning about facing the facts. Stripping for a few years can make sense, if a woman can deal with the emotional side, but to suggest a woman stay in it and not think about her future, sounds like you just women to remain strippers instead of encouraging them to compete in careers that will keep paying their bills until retirement.

In my view you're the one that's demeaning them. Why? Because most guys that argue as you don't give a shit about strippers that are past their prime. You don't spend anything on them, they disappear and that's not your problem. My suggesting that they not fall into that trap, that they be more then strippers, because the day will come that guys like you won't pay them to strip anymore, and they will still have 2-3 decades of working years ahead of of them, is a fact they have to face now or later. What I find to be demeaning is when a guy really doesn't give a shit if a girl rots after 35, as long as he gets what he wants, girls who are willing to strip.

evan_essence
11-12-2006, 11:58 PM
LOL...hold on, a LD is the sign of a criminal deviant? then again, using your logic. stripping is a cash business which gives plenty of opportunity for tax avoidance and evasion. so, you would know. anyway, that's some serious eyeball clawing, evan..LOL.The swipe was at you, darlin. (For the record, I may be a criminal deviant but I don't do the tax evasion thing.)


which is all the more reason to take my advice and stay away from contact clubs...problem solved. otherwise, take it up with your local congressman or keep the eyeball clawing in the dressing room.Again, what eyeball clawing? The OP's question was directed to customers, not other strippers here. Ya see, you've missed the subtle difference between me and the OP. That's okay 'cause it's my job to smack you over the head with it. Your normal argument is to a girl like me who grinds a little and complains that someone else is grinding too much or giving BJs. That's the appropriate time to trot out the argument that we're both prostitutes and that the only difference is my style (Amen). But the OP doesn't prostitute herself because she's giving air dances, not contact. She's, theoretically anyway, within the law and not defined by the law as a filthy whore, er, I mean prostitute. So the "you're over the legal limit, too, bitch, so don't get snotty about the degree!" argument doesn't work in this case, snookems.



говорить риска... IIRC, этот стриппер хотел работать SB в houston. официально, houston имеет правило 3-foot unofficially, оно будет по-разному рассказ. во всяком случае, это обширное она пошла к ASPD (oh yeah, они мальчики houston дал ей реальную содружественную реальность check..LOL) смотря для "очищает" клуб для работы потому что она была "очищает" танцора. oh наилучшим образом, я угадываю потому что она имела уголовное mindset., котор она слишком не была потревожена о быть маркированным обидчиком секса на жизнь (не упомянуть принять деньг прочь от местных девушок) как длиной по мере того как деньг будет righ
Huh?? As you can see, I tried running this through translation software but it didn't help. I haven't a clue whether you're saying she's dirtier or cleaner than the Houston norm. Kat?

-Ev

dayzed
11-13-2006, 12:11 AM
<snip the usual line of discussion> You really don't understand that?
What's funny, X-man, is that in response to my post questioning your strange preoccupation with the pitfalls of the dancing profession, and inquiring as to why this compulsion to continually revisit the subject, you were compelled to respond with -- you guessed it -- an expansive analysis of the pitfalls of the dancing profession. ;D

It's a free forum -- write what you want, my man. And don't tell me to put you on ignore, because I like hearing what the people have to say.

xdamage
11-13-2006, 12:24 AM
What's funny, X-man, is that in response to my post questioning your strange preoccupation with the pitfalls of the dancing profession, and your seeming compulsion to continually revisit this topic, you were compelled to respond with -- you guessed it -- an expansive analysis of the pitfalls of the dancing profession. ;D


Actually you suggested I was full of shit, and I'm suggesting that you have very typical views, but they are for your benefit, not for the women's benefit ;)

See I actually have women in my life that I care about. The last thing I'd want is for them to end up like so many women end up after about 35-40 in life, their looks faded, and they end up bitter, hateful, alone, because without their looks they are treated like other humans, and with no job skills, they end up rotting. I encourage them to plan for their futures. And very likely they will be surrounded by men who are 35-40 with careers that are just starting to take off while their stripping career has faded. Yet another reason to be bitter.

OTOH, how many customers really give a shit if a stripper ends up jobless or with poor prospects later in life? Who is thinking about that when they are scoping out women in the club? Nope, customers just want the club filled with as many women as will do it because it means a better experience for them.

So are you really encouraging the girls to strip because it's what's best for them, or are you doing it beause it's what's best for you? And which is really the more demeaning of the two? You want a point? The point is I think you're basically sucking up because it's what benefits you, more strippers, not because you give a shit what happens to any of these women later in life. If you find it offensive that I hope they don't end up jobless, bitter, years behind others in their chose professions, well, tough.