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Djoser
11-15-2006, 12:04 PM
There are also some girls I have worked with who spent the night getting drunk, buying drugs from customers and doing them in the dressing room, passing out, calling their boyfriends or girlfriends for a half hour whenever they felt like it, relaxing at the bar--whatever...

Meanwhile the longest I can relax at any given point is the roughly 2 minutes and 45 seconds in between songs, in which time I have to find a new song, put the old one away (when using CDs as some dtill do, lol), deal with whatever problems or situations come up from any of a myriad dancers, customers, managers, etc.

Damn right I deserve to make more than those girls (referred to above)--though not more than a professional, attractive businesswoman who is busting her ass as hard as I am, and dealing with assholes even more closely to boot.

TigersMilk
11-15-2006, 12:08 PM
^^ Those girls meaning the ones in your first paragraph?

Jenny
11-15-2006, 12:16 PM
^^^
It has nothing to do with a comparative "deserving". The facts is not WHAT you get paid, total, but what WE'RE expected to PAY you. Regardless of who or how many girls sit in the changeroom, for whatever reason, and regardless of how much money they make, your (hypothetical) service to ME does not change. What other girls pay you in a night does not change your service to ME.

Emily
11-15-2006, 12:27 PM
right...teachers "deserve" more than cokehead basketcase strippers, but it's not about them either.

A DJ's job is independent of mine and therefore his pay should be too. I pay the people that mow my lawn $25. I pay the lady that does my nails $17. I pay my DJ $10 ($20 if he skips me all night.)

These are the going rates whether I have $200 or $2000 in my pocket. The job is static. The pay is as well.

Djoser
11-15-2006, 12:33 PM
^^ Those girls meaning the ones in your first paragraph?

Yes, sorry if that wasn't clear. And I was addressing the newly-raised issue of whether a DJ should ever make more than any of the dancers he or she works with. The answer to that is quite clear to me from my experience.

Please don't take offense to my relating tales of 'bad stripper' behavior, it is of course quite easy to find plenty of my posts ripping up 'bad DJ' behavior as well.

Fortunately the members here tend to be exceptional, hard-working, and deserving of what they are paid.

DJ Maimed
11-15-2006, 12:45 PM
Not gonna touch this....not gonna touch this....... not gonna touch this! Man my inner monologue sounds like that T.A.T.U. song.

Emily
11-15-2006, 01:09 PM
I'm not offended by the bad stripper you portrayed....because they exist and I'm not one of them. I just wondered why you thought you deserved more than her. it seems like sucha comparisson shouldn't be made at all. One should not compare the earnings of a dancer to a DJ such as one should not compare the earnings of a bus driver to that of a car salesman.

X Evan X
11-15-2006, 04:02 PM
If the car salesmen spent an entire day in the breakroom passed out in a drunken stupor then proceeded to tell the world how ridiculous it was that the bus driver happened to make a little more money than him that day...

It would be fairly natural for the bus driver to point out that on days when the car salesmen works instead of sleeping in the breakroom he makes 5 times what he (the bus driver) makes.



Not saying anyone here spends their nights passed out in the dressing room. I'm only referring to Djosers hypothetical scenerio.

-E

Emily
11-15-2006, 04:38 PM
my point was...why are we talking about the drunken lameass stripper anyway? What does she have to do with what a DJ should be making?

Is there a problem with a DJ making $10 per girl? Is anyone disputing that is too little? Just curious.

Djoser
11-15-2006, 04:53 PM
Ack! My bad, bringing up the stereotypical drunk dancer, even if they do exist as much as the stereotypical drunken, loutish, cocky DJs do.

My point was, that from the standpoint that people who bust their ass are more likely to make more money, and rightfully so, I deserve to make more than a dancer who is putting a fraction of the effort in.

But maybe I need to just stay out of it as well--once again this is a dancers' section. If I feel so inclined, I can always go post in the DJ rants thread in MM. Then you guys can come post too, and we'll fight there as well, on the DJs' turf, lol...

Nah, let's not.

But say my club pays it's DJs well (which it does) and the dancers tip the DJs well entirely on a voluntary basis (which they do--I will get in deep shit for even asking for a tip). I wind up making more than some of the dancers on many a given night. I deserve this money.

But now I am not only not dropping the subject, but I am guilty of continuing the threadjack from simply advising the OP how she should tip her DJ.

Ah, fuck it, I'm out of time, I have to go to work. I sincerely do not intend to offend anyone here, just speaking my mind. I think we all know we are exceptional for being dedicated, not to mention literate, something I have found to be rare in this business, as in so many others.

VenusGoddess
11-15-2006, 05:55 PM
PhillyDJ, yes. it was deleted...along with the other post that pissed you off.

Lets try to keep it as civil as possible, even though I know its a touchy subject. ;)

Emily
11-15-2006, 06:27 PM
so, I deserve to make more than a dancer who is putting a fraction of the effort in.

but why? People that clean slaughterhouses deserve to make more than you, but they don't. See where this is going? You can't compare apples to oranges. Our income should have no bearing on yours.

But still curious. Does anyone think $10 per girl (no more) is not enough?

PaigeDWinter
11-15-2006, 06:29 PM
but why? People that clean slaughterhouses deserve to make more than you, but they don't. See where this is going? You can't compare apples to oranges. Our income should have no bearing on yours.

But still curious. Does anyone think $10 per girl (no more) is not enough?


Yes but just because we want something to happen doesnt mean that it does. The IDEA is that those who work harder SHOULD make more. They deserve it.

Jenny
11-15-2006, 10:09 PM
The entire pay structure is different, and unfortunately (or not, depending on how you look at it) no where in our society do we simply reward most effort with greatest money. Dancers work on straight commission, selling to customers that have a variety in choice. You guys don't. Dancer have no minimum. DJs do. Moreover, if a dancer sits in the changeroom, bitching all night and passes out at 11.30, and still manages to earn $600, who's going to say she doesn't "deserve" it and then take it away and distribute amongst the more deserving (while we're adding up the more deserving - who here is really sure they're getting a portion of that girl's earnings? I think the local slaughterhouse workers that Emily mentioned might have a pretty strong claim).

What we "deserve" only has meaning between those from whom the good/service is moving and those to whom it is moving. Thus - the DJ may deserve a $10 tip from me for performing the very basic service owed to me (choosing my music, announcing me and maybe talking me up for 10 seconds) but it has nothing to do with what I deserve to make from my customers, or what any other girl in the club, regardless of her work habits deserves, because that exchange is between two entirely different people.

DJoser - I think the better response than "Well I deserve to make more than some dancers" would be "What I deserve to make is not really contingent on the income of dancers", because, as Emily says, the claim that you deserve to make more than dancers has completely inconsistent comparators, not to mention being wholly subjective.

PaigeDWinter
11-15-2006, 10:19 PM
Dancers work on straight commission, selling to customers that have a variety in choice. You guys don't.

Not always. Plenty of DJs work for Just Tips like dancers, and have to "sell" to the dancers by being compliant.


Moreover, if a dancer sits in the changeroom, bitching all night and passes out at 11.30, and still manages to earn $600, who's going to say she doesn't "deserve" it


I am. I sure the fuck am. If I am gonna bust my ass on stage and on the floor and walk out with less than some lazy bitch, you better believe that I am gonna be VERY sore about it. I sure as hell am gonna believe I deserve to be earning more than she does.

Jenny
11-15-2006, 10:31 PM
Not always. Plenty of DJs work for Just Tips like dancers, and have to "sell" to the dancers by being compliant.
What I meant was that we're stuck with one DJ. We can't go and just get a different DJ if we don't like you, or you don't perform to our standards. There aren't 50 DJs walking around the club. Nor will we ever have to bid for your attention as some customers sometimes have to do for ours. Entirely different structure. Not conveniently compared.


I am. I sure the fuck am. If I am gonna bust my ass on stage and on the floor and walk out with less than some lazy bitch, you better believe that I am gonna be VERY sore about it. I sure as hell am gonna believe I deserve to be earning more than she does.
Oh, come on, Paige. The reason she deserves it is simple. That despite being lazy and drunk (and I am both of those things. I have been that girl multiple times) she is either still a better sales person or customers like her better. That is how "deserving" works in the business. You don't "deserve" money because you work hard, you "deserve" money from customers because you please them.

Okay - ex. I once worked with a girl who freaked out on me and a custy because after about 20 seconds of flirting I asked him to buy and he said yes. She had sat with him for about 20 minutes and he said no. She felt that she had worked harder and therefore deserved the sale. Sensible? Obviously not. That particular customer took to me and therefore I obviously "deserve" the proceeds.

You want to talk about hard work versus deserving? There is a certain young lady here that can drive you crazy. She sets a toe outside the dressing room door and guys are on their knees begging to pay her for her presence. If she keeps her toes in, they pound (figuratively) on the door. (And then she talks about how tired she is of dancing, leaving me rolling my eyes saying "Yeah, I'm sorry for you. It must be rough.) I work harder than her insofar as I work the floor much harder and I certainly have less return. It would be completely insensible for me to turn around and tell her that she doesn't deserve her money. Sorry, Paige, but that's just nutty.

PaigeDWinter
11-15-2006, 10:33 PM
Sorry Jenny, but I say bullshit. Hard workers always deserve better, even if they dont get it.


And besides. A "better saleswoman" wouldnt be the lazy one who sits in the dressing room anyways.

Jenny
11-15-2006, 10:41 PM
oookay - maybe in some completely esoteric religious sense that has no application anywhere in life...
However, were that the case I don't think many of us here would be making what we do. Our money would be going to teachers and slaughterhouse workers and those people who pick up litter with sticks in the park and we'd be getting minimum wage. So I guess we can at least agree to be a little bit happy this isn't the case?

Jenny
11-15-2006, 10:42 PM
Btw - Commie.
:)

PookaShell
11-15-2006, 10:42 PM
Sorry Jenny, but I say bullshit. Hard workers always deserve better, even if they dont get it.


And besides. A "better saleswoman" wouldnt be the lazy one who sits in the dressing room anyways.

I agree with Paige.

VenusGoddess
11-15-2006, 10:48 PM
And besides. A "better saleswoman" wouldnt be the lazy one who sits in the dressing room anyways.


This is not true. There was a dancer at VIP's who would sit and bitch forever in the dressing room. She walks out onto the floor...goes up to some random guy...flirts, does a dance...BAM! Champagne Room. Now, I was a good sales woman...I could always make a lot of money...but dammit, she could sell those Champagne Rooms like nobody else. She didn't necessarily have to work "hard" for it...she just did it.

In a club where there are 60-70 dancers, on average, on any given night...tipping the DJ $10 would have him walking out with $600-700 PER NIGHT of working (mind you this is take-home as DJ's don't have to tip anyone else out). At VIP's they encouraged you to tip out 10% (which for me would have been around $80 per shift...not including my 20% to the bouncers, 25% to the champagne host, 25% funny money conversion, and $60-$120 house fee). Fuck that. I loved one of the DJ's there...but fuck if I am going to walk out with less than 50% of what I earned. Besides, after all of the money that is mandatory paying out...the DJ would make MORE than me at the end of the night...and he didn't have to dance for some old, fat, smelly guy who doesn't know what "No touchy" means.

I'm sorry...but good DJ or bad...$10 per dancer in a high count club is plenty.

Emily
11-15-2006, 11:21 PM
I'll be the first to admit I don't deserve to make the kind of money I do.

But hell, I get it anyway.

Now what?

Give it away to someone just because he/she works harder? Pshyeaaaaah right.

Where was I again? Oh yeah. Deserving is relative. Pushing a car up a hill is hard work, but it's not exactly deserving of money. I deserve the money I get because someone finds value in it. Value is not relative. It's what someone else is willing to pay.

PaigeDWinter
11-15-2006, 11:28 PM
Who said anything about giving it away? Seriously... jeez. Well, unless you count those of us who actually give to charity. My point is that hard workers shouldnt have to be the poor ones. It fucking sucks and its just not right.

mollyzmoon
11-15-2006, 11:30 PM
If we're taking sides, lol, I agree with Jenny. She's said it better than I can, with her superior rhetoric, but to add my own example:

I used to work on a farm, with nine hours of physical labour that almost killed me (for real, a guy fell through the floor in the hay mow right in front of me and his arm almost ripped out of the socket...and I got kicked in the sternum, which made me pass out and wake up with a face full of mucky snow, wondering how I wasn't dead). I did all this for $50 a day. And I was sixteen and so happy to make $100 a weekend!! Crazy to remember myself as that go getter girl I once was...because now I am a somewhat lazy, complainy dancer who bitches (inwardly if nothing else) when I make less than $300 for five hours of mostly sit down, noncreative work (some dancers are creative, some dancers are amazing; I am not).

But if I went back to the farm, I wouldn't think that I therefore damn well deserved $500 a day. I just wouldn't. It's not the same job, it's not the same circumstances.

All that said, I tip my DJ $5. He ignores me often, plays the wrong music, etc. If he starts playing the right song I ask for on my CD a little more consistently, he'll get $10. Every dancer's pretty stingy around here, so I'm batting average I think. Why would I pay more?

Emily
11-15-2006, 11:30 PM
My point is that hard workers shouldnt have to be the poor ones. It fucking sucks and its just not right.

I'm with you. It's really unfair that you can get paid more for standing there looking hot than programming a missile control system. But you do. And instead of complaining about it, I stopped working on the missile and started standing there looking hot and reaped the rewards.

Chrissy68
11-16-2006, 01:45 AM
i dont go on stage but i still treat my dj like the housemom who's stuf fi dont use. i tip them each ten always. unless i break a g. then it's 20s. no more. never less.

X Evan X
11-16-2006, 02:53 AM
The entire pay structure is different, and unfortunately (or not, depending on how you look at it) ...

**Reader's Digest Version***

.... the claim that you deserve to make more than dancers has completely inconsistent comparators, not to mention being wholly subjective.

Well said

And for the record I am very content with what I make which is not anything close to what the dancers at my club make (with the occassional exception). Nor has it ever been at any of the clubs I've worked at.

I am happy to get $10 a girl (I spent many years at a club where that was standard) and fortunately for me most of the girls I've had the pleasure of working with have been very generous when they have good nights. The few times I ever got a little offended was if a girl seriously asked me for 50 favors throughout the night (running me ragged) then didn't even throw a little bit extra at me, and that has not been very often.

-E

Djoser
11-16-2006, 04:40 AM
DJoser - I think the better response than "Well I deserve to make more than some dancers" would be "What I deserve to make is not really contingent on the income of dancers", because, as Emily says, the claim that you deserve to make more than dancers has completely inconsistent comparators, not to mention being wholly subjective.

You present very cogent arguments, and will make a fine lawyer.

But my post was in response to what I perceived as indignation on the part of a dancer concerning the fact that a DJ could possibly make more than some of the dancers--thus my post, which was admittedly carrying the trend further off topic. I wasn't the one bringing up whether I deserved it or not, a dancer was.

Nonetheless, I would certainly have no problem with my post being deleted.

tampafldancer
11-16-2006, 05:46 AM
I usually tip my dj about 5-10 percent. depending if he skips my stage, plays good songs, treats me well... etc

Tonight i tipped about 35 bucks and it was wayy under 10 percent.. under 5 too. Shame on me.

phillydj
11-16-2006, 10:02 AM
i dont go on stage but i still treat my dj like the housemom who's stuf fi dont use. i tip them each ten always. unless i break a g. then it's 20s. no more. never less.

Wait....you get skipped all night and only give the dj 10??? Where do you work..lol

Djoser
11-16-2006, 02:16 PM
I usually tip my dj about 5-10 percent. depending if he skips my stage, plays good songs, treats me well... etc

Tonight i tipped about 35 bucks and it was wayy under 10 percent.. under 5 too. Shame on me.

Well, unless you know for a fact that you routinely make 200-300$ MORE when you work specifically with him, and him alone, because of things he does deliberately...

So what.

If I got 35 from every dancer, I'd be doing even better than I am, which is pretty good. Though as I said before--and meant emphatically--I deserve every penny of what I do get, unlike the DJs that get drunk, grab ass, and play whatever music they want, and video games all night.

There are those dancers who tip me that much, yes, or more, but most tip around 15-20, or more if they were up in Champagne room a lot that night. Since tipping is entirely and completely voluntary in my club, that's pretty cool with me. I'm not concerned with getting 10%, even if I usually got it in daytona.

The one time I really wanted pretty much exactly 10% (and wound up getting it, too) was in a club that was really slow when I started there, with only a few dancers. It took me a year to get that fucking place going, and until I did, I would walk out without much--a modest shift pay and tips from a few dancers, night after night. If they didn't make anything, I didn't want anything, and I told them that.

After a year of busting my ass working with the same dancers, when they finally started banking, I wanted my 10%, that the club said I was supposed to get, and I had without question earned. Since the place reverted to being a dump within a few weeks of my leaving, and still is these years later, I don't feel out of line in having wanted it.

Nonetheless, I never tried getting anal about it and asking for it, or worse yet, counting their dances--that's fucking lame.

But I'm sure you work in a much nicer club that that, lol! And I'm sure your DJ is perfectly content with getting 35$

Dj Captain Rob
11-16-2006, 11:41 PM
I would comment on this but have given up this debate. Neither side could ever win this debate..lol. Cant we all just get along??? Lol...


Cap't

Djoser
11-17-2006, 04:03 AM
Really, can we just kill the thread already"

Of course it will just resurrect itself again in a few weeks or months. One of the many Threads That Won't Die, lol...

tampafldancer
11-17-2006, 05:39 AM
let me add that normally my dj gets no less then 50 a night. I spoil him but he treats me well. It does make a difference with him. ---seriously!

I may tip him next time more for being so cheap the last time i worked.

DylanAngel
11-17-2006, 07:10 AM
We don't make the same money around here because most of our money is made on the stage so the scale is a little different.

The mandatory tip for the DJ is $5 and most of the time I give them 20 to 30 because they play my music when I'm up on stage. Not my "type" of music, but specifically what I requested.

They make my night easier because I have routines that I do to the songs I love, with costume coordination etc. The crowd enjoys the show as a direct result and I make more money.

If I make more money because of them, they get a cut of my earnings.

Jenny
11-17-2006, 08:18 AM
Hmm. Is it just me, or is picking your own music making LESS work for them, not more? So essentially you’re paying him more to do less work… presumably because if you didn’t he might vindictively not play it? That’s not actually called a “tip”. I actually think every time a DJ has mentioned deliberately fucking up a dancer’s set for not tipping or under tipping.

DylanAngel
11-17-2006, 08:32 AM
Yes, but you're assuming that there are not other women up there with me, Jenny.

We don't have "shows" here. Each girl has to dance 1/2 hour out of every hour, dividing her time 15 full minutes on stage and 15 minutes collecting tips...but, at my club, no less than the first 15 minutes on stage with at least 1 other girl up there on your same schedule.

Those other women could be requesting completely different music than me and he would have to make the call of which type to play. So, you have two women up there, with completely different tastes (remember we are primarily stage dancers here so it helps if you like the music)...how to keep them both happy?

He finds some middle ground between the two as in: a few songs not too dancey and not too hardcore and then actually plays the songs he knows I love so as to get me in a good enough mood not to notice the other "middle ground" songs and the same for her.

At the same time, he has to announce drink specials, upcoming promos, and keep up with not too intrusive banter when the mood starts to slack.

This, to me is an art form...trying to keep everyone happy and the drinks flowing and the mood a good one all around.

I have DJ'd many a time when one of my staff called out and it's not easy. You have requests from this one at this time, requests from that one at that time, requests for the customers and you have to weed out what works for the club and what doesn't while trying to keep the girls on their rotations. It wasn't easy.

Maybe because I've done it, is why I'm able to have some respect for them and tip better. There are plenty of people who would say that dancing is easy, but we know it's not. DJing was the same thing, until I did it. For that matter, managing was the same until I did it.

Jenny
11-17-2006, 09:04 AM
^^^
Gosh, you're right. I was.
Now I feel silly. It makes so much more sense now.
My point, just for the record, is not that DJing is easy; it is that the tippable service is not (generally) worth more than $10, and the job is (as Emily said) static - therefore does not need to elevate with my earnings. For the above, it was also in reference to a few DJs who have told stories of deliberately fucking with dancers (as opposed to just leaving them alone) who undertip. That is, expending deliberate effort to ruin the dancer's night - in terms of enjoyment or earning potential - as opposed to just not "working as hard" for her, as he would for someone else. It did sound, initially, like you had to pay your DJ to play music you pick out. But I did assume that you were dancing in a club like the one's I've danced in. Oops.

DylanAngel
11-17-2006, 09:10 AM
^^^Now you're just being snarky Jenny. But that's ok, because that's the reason I enjoy reading your posts. ;D

Don't take my post personally hon (my version of oops). Was just pointing out the differences in why I like to (not need to) tip my DJ's more.

And I do agree with the fact that DJs, especially here with the scenario as I described it, can majorly fuck with a girls stage time. I've seen it happen, and, when it was in my power to do so, fired them promptly.

ETA: I wouldn't even read the blue side if it wasn't for your posts. Saves me from buying supermarket rags the way you take the boys to the mat.;)

Jenny
11-17-2006, 09:15 AM
No, I actually meant it. I absolutely assumed that you were the only girl on stage, and didn't consider that you were essentially tipping for preference. I approve, generally, of snark, but that was very serious.

DylanAngel
11-17-2006, 09:18 AM
No, I actually meant it. I absolutely assumed that you were the only girl on stage, and didn't consider that you were essentially tipping for preference. I approve, generally, of snark, but that was very serious.

Oh great, now I'm guilty of assuming, lol! I thought I knew you so well from your posting style that you were automatically being snarky!

I'm laughing my ass off over here...oh boy, can't wait till this flu is gone. I'm getting cabin fever!

devilkitty
11-17-2006, 10:32 AM
20 almost always. Except when i ask him to play something speacial and he plays it.

Djoser
11-17-2006, 11:42 AM
...I deserve the money I get because someone finds value in it. Value is not relative. It's what someone else is willing to pay.

Right, the same applies to me, when I wind up making more than some of the dancers. Since the women aren't required to tip me a nickel, and they tip me on average at least 15$, more if they had a lot of champagne room time, they obviously value my effort quite highly, and are willing to pay me quite well for it.

But as I have pointed out before, the issue of whether I deserve to ever make more than some dancers wasn't raised by me, but a dancer who was apparently outraged at the idea.



My point, just for the record, is not that DJing is easy; it is that the tippable service is not (generally) worth more than $10, and the job is (as Emily said) static - therefore does not need to elevate with my earnings. For the above, it was also in reference to a few DJs who have told stories of deliberately fucking with dancers (as opposed to just leaving them alone) who undertip. That is, expending deliberate effort to ruin the dancer's night...

But I did assume that you were dancing in a club like the one's I've danced in. Oops.

There are many variables at play here, though of course in your club this may be true. Obviously the women I work with find that my tippable service is generally worth significantly more than 10$. They are correct.

Furthermore, maybe I missed it, I haven't read every post in this thread with exacting effort, but 'static' is the last word I would use to describe the position I have held in the clubs I have been employed in. The job can change drastically from night to night, not to mention from club to club.

A robot pushing buttons and treating every dancer in the same fashion would be static, however a good DJ must be dynamic, and very flexible.

My night can be completely different depending on the mix of dancers I have working with me--even the barstaff can make a difference, though that can be more difficult to counteract if it's bad barstaff.

Certainly it is always an easier night when working with a large percentage of dancers who appreciate what I am doing for them, and deserve every bit of effort I put into making them stand out from the rest for their own individual merits--without detracting from the merits of the other dancers present.

DylanAngel, who has as usual has displayed uncommon wisdom and perception here, is right on the money when she describes how playing a dancer's music, and choosing the correct time and place to play it, can make a big difference. A dancer can give me a CD with 12 songs on it, and each of those 12 songs can have a distinct and appropriate opportunity to be played for maximum effect, and integration with the flow of the performance, during the evening.

A good DJ (who might expect and deserve to be appropriately awarded for his or her aptitude) will be aware of this, and will employ the fact to the dancer's advantage, and to the advantage of the club in general.

A bad DJ will just play songs from the CD at random, and furthermore place the dancer in a random location in the rotation at the beginning of the night.

This of course would be assuming that all dancers are alike, where they fit in rotation makes no difference, and will have no effect on the audience (an idiotic assumption I have seen made by many a DJ--a good list can make or break the night, in fact).

This would be 'static' thinking, and thinking that would require very few brain cells indeed--just as many DJs and dancers we have all worked with seem to possess, lol...

cameronfl
11-17-2006, 11:51 AM
A dancer can give me a CD with 12 songs on it, and each of those 12 songs can have a distinct and appropriate opportunity to be played for maximum effect, and integration with the flow of the performance, during the evening.



That is SO true! I've had dj's obviously clueless or not paying attention play Lords of Acid while I'm wearing a schoolgirl outfit and Rag Doll when I'm in my dominatrix garb!! And when asked all they said was "well..it was on your cd...".....Djoser...one of your predecessors at your current club was famous for this and thus I only ever tipped him minimum. He also drove everyone crazy by talking NONSTOP over the mic ALL night..sports scores, lottery numbers,announcing EVERY customer walking in("hey there guys..welcome ....hold your hand up and recite the pledge "nudity does not offend me")...he thought he was witty and funny. He thought WRONG. It is really difficult to dance and look sexy to lottery numbers!!!

A really good dj is worth a good tip....10% of my money..not sure about that....most dont help my money 10% worth! But I will tip it if it is required as it is in my current club. It is something I basically agreed to by working there.

Djoser
11-17-2006, 12:22 PM
...most dont help my money 10% worth! But I will tip it if it is required as it is in my current club. It is something I basically agreed to by working there.

I believe that! It's certainly been my own observation as well.

It's important to remember that we are dealing with a wide variety of dancers and DJs, with a wide variety of talent, motivation, and desireability--some of whom 'deserve' what they make, and some who don't, I would suspect.

Of course, if we were to get Kafkaesque about it, the best and most artistic dancers and DJs would do so for the sheer love of it, and would put their entire being into the intensity of the artistic experience. They would be oblivious to the need for recognition or pecuniary reward.

DJ Maimed
11-17-2006, 01:23 PM
Of course, if we were to get Kafkaesque about it, the best and most artistic dancers and DJs would do so for the sheer love of it, and would put their entire being into the intensity of the artistic experience. They would be oblivious to the need for recognition or pecuniary reward.[/QUOTE]

So true.....if only my lanlord and the utilities companies felt the same way about our "starving" artistic impressionism. ::)

To DylanAngel; Thank you!

This, to me is an art form...trying to keep everyone happy and the drinks flowing and the mood a good one all around.

I have DJ'd many a time when one of my staff called out and it's not easy. You have requests from this one at this time, requests from that one at that time, requests for the customers and you have to weed out what works for the club and what doesn't while trying to keep the girls on their rotations. It wasn't easy.

Maybe because I've done it, is why I'm able to have some respect for them and tip better. There are plenty of people who would say that dancing is easy, but we know it's not. DJing was the same thing, until I did it. For that matter, managing was the same until I did it.

To DylanAngel; Let me rephrase that...THANK YOU.........THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! (Note; My usual sarcasm is not present here...this is real.... my "PL Claws" are in full retract mode) Oh..by the way....did I say THANK YOU?

Jenny
11-17-2006, 03:17 PM
There are many variables at play here, though of course in your club this may be true. Obviously the women I work with find that my tippable service is generally worth significantly more than 10$. They are correct.
Hey - I have no problem if dancers choose to tip you more. Their money, they can choose to spend it how they please. I have mentioned before that I truly and really do not believe that a DJ makes me money - I've worked in clubs without DJs, and I don't believe it hurt us. I've worked in clubs where the "DJ" position was one of the bouncers.


A robot pushing buttons and treating every dancer in the same fashion would be static, however a good DJ must be dynamic, and very flexible.
Again - you're getting into "DJing is a very difficult and skilled job". This may or may not be true, but really doesn't matter. By static I meant that your job doesn't change because I make more money. The fact that I've been selling champagne all night doesn't generally change a DJ's job in slightest. He or she does the exact same thing he or she would have if I had made $50. Therefore there seems to be (to me) no real reason to inflate your earnings with my own.

Djoser
11-18-2006, 04:23 AM
Let me preface my reply by saying it would be a pleasure to work with you, who are so clearly an unusually intelligent woman. Most of the women I worked with in Daytona (where even the lawyers were idiots, lol) would be utterly incapable of such a verbal exchange.

Though the DJs I have known were if anything usually dumber.

So...you are also, at the least, verbally creative (I've never seen you dance, so I don't know, but I doubt it ends there with verbal matters). The combination of intellect and dancing ability can make for a hellaciously good person to work with, especially if you have a good rapport with them--as I must.

There is a dancer I'll call 'Bella', AKA the Elegant Angel, where I work. Who graduated from Northwestern, I recently discovered--it was so funny because I knew she was smart from fucking watching her dance, I swear to god).

This helps her a lot, the way she uses it in this club, and she is one of the prime features of any stage show we have going on, something I play up on for all it's worth, and encourage by finding unique music which reflects her truly magnificent personality and dancing style. She obviously appreciates it, since she routinely tips me 50$, more than the other DJs we have had.

If she goes in the champagne room, it makes a big difference indeed. The woman can draw and hold a crowd like few others.

Tell me, do you ever feel truly inspired onstage? Would you like to feel that way more often? Do you think it would help you make more money? What if, instead of being pathetic cretins, DJs could actually bring about this result, or at least make it significantly more reliable?

I don't doubt you have found DJs to be counterproductive, most of them are idiots as far as I can tell.


But actually, it matters a great deal to me--and the stage show--if certain unusually attractive and/or highly skilled dancers are in the champagne room (actually, in the case of most clubs I have worked, even doing lap dances since we skip them).

It means the show goes on without them, and if it's certain ones, it won't be nearly as good a show. This of course hurts far more in smaller clubs--in my present club it matters much less, though it still means various adjustments and extra effort on my part to find a way to vary the music/dancer appearance factors accordingly. Again, in smaller clubs this compensation is much more difficult to pull off smoothly.

Even the loss of an unexceptional dancer from the list can have an effect on the music balance and appearance rotation.

But it has never kept me from feeling happy for the woman, generally and preferably my friend. There is also generally a compensatory boost that money is being made, the club and my friends the dancers are making money, so doing without them is easily accepted. The truth of the matter is, I have tried to skip dancers when I could have called them out of private dance area on many occasions, even if it meant more work for me figuring how to balance the music.

So it does change my job, and possibly my attitude (though not necessarily for the worse), if a dancer is in the champagne room, yes...

ChristyWild
11-26-2006, 06:45 PM
bull- I give my DJ (I wortk days, btw) 10% of what I make AFTER I tipout the club. So, he typically gets anywhere between 20-40 a shift from me. My main reason why is because I'm up on rotation A LOT more on days, and he's never fucked with me music wise- even plays me the music I ask for when I do. Not only that, but he also promotes my site and the fact I'm heading out to LA to shoot next year, so yeah, he definitely deserves the kudos/tips he gets. Also, the other pet peeve I have about SOME of the girls I've worked with over the years is that if they get a half hour VIP (which nets them $200) and then, at the end of the day, they give the DJ $10. I do not get it, nor do I think it's cool.

twisterinAZ
11-26-2006, 07:10 PM
I give $10 on a bad night $20 on a good one and I tip more sometimes based on who is working and if I like him. This one DJ pissed me off royally the last few times we worked together so he won't be getting any $20 tips for a while.....10% seems like a lot for someone who doesn't actually make me any money. I don't mind giving money to people I like and enjoy working with but that just seems like A LOT ! Say for instance, I make $500 tonight, there is no way in hell I'm handing over $50 to the dude who says I'm on stage twice in a night. Here in Phoenix, that's 5 lapdances!