View Full Version : I'm dating a married man!
BrunetteGoddess
11-17-2006, 05:21 PM
I think by just the fact that you have to continously tell yourself that HES the bad guy tells me you know you're just as guilty as he is.
VenusGoddess
11-17-2006, 05:23 PM
^^^ I agree with you! The father was the one who made who wreck his family. There are plenty of men who is very faithful to there wives and had always been faithful. It takes two to make a relationship work. If he love his wife he will be trying to make thier marriage work. No he is trying to be with another woman for his selfish reasons.
See, this argument would work if she didn't know he was married. But, she DOES know he's married. And, while he has to take the responsibility for fucking up his family...when you KNOW something is wrong and do it anyways...you're just as guilty. Any other excuse is just a way to help you sleep at night. If you don't know...you cannot be responsible. If you DO know and do it anyways...guilty as sin.
Jenny
11-17-2006, 05:31 PM
I dunno. I don't think it is morally neutral, but I think the point that the girls are making is that SHE is not the one that got married. She doesn't know this woman and doesn't owe her anything. She did not promise this other woman to be faithful to her, and to be a life partner nor did she promise to ensure that her husband would be faithful. Her husband has a positive duty to his wife; other random women do not. To me that seems perfectly obvious.
VenusGoddess
11-17-2006, 07:04 PM
^ Respect for other people is not dependant upon whether or not you know them personally. Respecting that you would not like to be with a man who would cheat on you during your relationship, I think, should be enough motivation to not fuck someone else's husband and then use the excuse, "Well, its not my issue because I'm not married to her." That's just a bullshit excuse. If the shoe was on the other foot and you were the "married clueless woman", I think you would be pissed that your man cheated, but you would be just as pissed that the other woman knew and did it anyways. Complete and total disrespect for your relationship...no matter how asinine your husband is to cheat in the first place.
Whether or not she (or you) want to admit that when you KNOW someone is married...and you fuck them anyways...you are just as much to blame as the guy who is cheating on his wife.
The husband has a positive duty to his wife, yes. But, as a woman...having respect for another woman's relationship is not only the right thing to do...its the moral thing to do.
But, hey...whatever helps you sleep at night.
Jenny
11-17-2006, 07:09 PM
Well, as grateful as I am for your permission to sleep - as I said, it may not be morally neutral, but I think it is a huge stretch to say that some strange woman is in a position to betray a trust or that her betrayal is as meaningful as one from someone you are married to. I'm sort of the opinion that people are ESPECIALLY responsible for commitments that they've actually made to people, as opposed to commitments that other people have made to people. But maybe I just lack your moral fortitude, what with the rational consideration and all.
evan_essence
11-17-2006, 09:18 PM
I agree with you, Jenny. I'm totally in the camp that holds it's the spouse's (be they man or woman) responsibility to uphold their marriage vows. The spouse is the one with the contract and responsibility to the children. While the OP should respect that for reasons other than her own well being, the practical matter is that her well being is also at stake even if she doesn't respect it. Her emotional health will only be advanced if he chooses to be honest and get a divorce (but maybe not even then). Regardless of whether disengaging herself is the moral thing for her to do, it's the expedient thing for her to do.
Ya know what, I'll even give her the benefit of the doubt that she was blindsided and smitten. Hey, people fall in love without regard to logic or reason. But now's the time for reason to take over. For the sake of her long term well being, she should go find a replacement boyfriend who's single. Or even a single f**k buddy. That's the simplest cure. (Even less complicated, a good video and vibrator. Masturbation is your friend.)
I'll probably catch it for saying this, but I'm kinda surprised at the vitriol that emerges from some dancers concerning this topic, considering the somewhat gray sexual areas we work in. I certainly didn't require any releases from married men when I danced for them, indicating that their wives had full knowledge and had given permission. I certainly did know some of them were married, and never asked if others were or not, but logic and the odds dictate that some of the unknowns were married as well. I'd be naive to think none of their wives viewed their actions as cheating. I'm not sure I can dismiss a homewrecking charge against myself under those circumstances because, after all, cheating is not about sexual intercourse per se, it's about what the cheated spouse defines as cheating, and oogling a writhing naked woman who's not your wife and takes money that should go into your kid's college fund is certainly a reasonable definition. Nevertheless, I maintain it's totally the customer's responsibility to keep his committments in order.
-Ev
Just read the OP
“It's official, I'm a dumbass.
I’m shitting where I'm eating,
I knew from the beginning that he's married,
I feel no remorse b/c he's the bad guy.
I'm just taking what's available.
He's the bad guy, not me.
I'm just having fun with him.
I'm stupid I'm stupid.”
It takes two to fuck. So why is he the bad guy and you are blameless? The minute you gave him the OK you were part of it. If you said “No” he may have gone elsewhere but you would not be part of the mess to follow.
Now let me just make a gender change to your post and see how you feel about what the guy is up to.
It's official, I'm a dumbass. I've fallen for a female coworker. Not only am I shitting where I'm eating, but she's also married with a kid. She's 36, I'm 22, and it's soooo obvious that I am a manifestation of everything she hasn't done in years. We've hung out a few times, and one of the times we admitted our feelings for each other. I knew from the beginning that she's married, and I feel no remorse b/c she's the slut. I'm just taking what's available. She's the bad nympho, not me. I'm bound and determined not to fall in love with her, or fall for that "I'm going to divorce my husband" crap. I'm just having fun with her. God, she's sooo hot, and she wants me to visit her in Bangkok when she returns. I'm thinking with my dick.
RUNNNN Runnnn away and be very afraid!
PaigeDWinter
11-17-2006, 09:44 PM
I'll probably catch it for saying this, but I'm kinda surprised at the vitriol that emerges from some dancers concerning this topic, considering the somewhat gray sexual areas we work in. I certainly didn't require any releases from married men when I danced for them, indicating that their wives had full knowledge and had given permission. I certainly did know some of them were married, and never asked if others were or not, but logic and the odds dictate that some of the unknowns were married as well. I'd be naive to think none of their wives viewed their actions as cheating. I'm not sure I can dismiss a homewrecking charge against myself under those circumstances because, after all, cheating is not about sexual intercourse per se, it's about what the cheated spouse defines as cheating, and oogling a writhing naked woman who's not your wife and takes money that should go into your kid's college fund is certainly a reasonable definition. Nevertheless, I maintain it's totally the customer's responsibility to keep his committments in order.
-Ev
Well I dont KNOW if my customers are married or not. And if I did, and I knew for a fact that their being there would be considered cheating by their wives? I wouldnt dance for them. But I am NOT knowingly heling a man ruin his family's life. The OP is. I am also not fucking my customers, which does not make me an adulteress. Going to a strip club is somewhere in between looking at nude art and lookin at a porno mag, IMHO.... whereas some women may find this to be cheating/violation of their relationship, I dare say it isnt comparable to sleeping with someone.
LilSweetVixen
11-17-2006, 10:06 PM
It's official, I'm a dumbass. I've fallen for a female coworker. Not only am I shitting where I'm eating, but she's also married with a kid. She's 36, I'm 22, and it's soooo obvious that I am a manifestation of everything she hasn't done in years. We've hung out a few times, and one of the times we admitted our feelings for each other. I knew from the beginning that she's married, and I feel no remorse b/c she's the slut. I'm just taking what's available. She's the bad nympho, not me. I'm bound and determined not to fall in love with her, or fall for that "I'm going to divorce my husband" crap. I'm just having fun with her. God, she's sooo hot, and she wants me to visit her in Bangkok when she returns. I'm thinking with my dick.
I don't see your point. This would be completely acceptable by society's standards. The other woman is the whore, but the other man is just a man, and the cheating wife in many societies can get murdered.
I'm with Jenny, she's right as usual. The guy is at fault. Anyway, get some money out of him without doing anything that constitutes cheating and then move along.
DylanAngel
11-17-2006, 10:31 PM
See, I'm somewhere in the middle of both sides.
Whilst I don't see it as her fault, I have a problem with her not being remorseful in any way. The total lack of compassion for the wife and child is the reason I questioned her morals at all.
And it's not about karma either. It's just about being a human being.
Krazyjane
11-17-2006, 11:16 PM
Wow, What a hot topic. I certainly wasn't expecting sympathy or encouragement, but I wasn't expecting this either. You know how when someone posts, "I'm tempted to cheat on my boyfriend, " or "I'm thinking of having a threesome," people tend to give advice along the lines of, "Don't do it, but since you're going to do it anyway and learn the hard way, follow this advice..." I guess I was hoping for some of that. Thanks wikikiki. Thanks paintbaby.
I'm not proud of what I'm doing in any way, but I'm also not feeling guilty. I figure that if not me, it would be someone else. If a man is tempted to stray, he'll find an outlet some way. At worst, I'm a catalyst. He even admitted that if not me, he prolly would have had an affair with someone else.
I also have morals, surprise surprise. I would never pull a Marla Maples on his wife (Marla Maples was the woman who confronted Ivana Trump on the ski slope and told her that yes, she was sleeping with him). I would never try to get him to divorce her. I would never try to take time away from his kid (who is back in Bangkok, being raised by grandma, away from this whole mess). I would never try to interfere with his family life. Also, it's not that I don't have compassion for his wife an kid, it's that I figure they'd be dealing with it in one way or another. His story: He knocked up his girlfriend and married her "because it was the right thing to do." He caught her cheating. He wants a divorce. I found out all this before any romance blossomed. I don't know whether to believe this, and I don't think that 2 wrongs make a right. I frequently ask him if he's ok with doing this, if he forsees a huge mess. In fact, the first thing I said after he confessed his feeling for me was, "Um... uhhh... you have a wife and kid. Are you sure?" After talking, I figured that it was his problem, not mine, and I was not going to do anything to actively fuck them over. As aforementioned, if not me, he would have gone for someone else.
I fully acknowledge that nothing will come of this. At least we're mutually using each other. He's getting a free shrink, I'm getting... what ever I'll get out of it. Conversation? Yeah, I'm going to quit the job in December anyway, which has been my plan for months. On a separate note, I am no longer stripping. He doesn't know that I ever did. This is a "real job." I'm not dumb enough to date someone in a strip club.
Lysondra
11-18-2006, 12:18 AM
My husband cheated on me.
It makes me want to cry that you're the woman I hated as I spent my nights alone in my house wondering where my husband was and why he wasn't home yet as I had prepared yet another growing-cold dinner for someone who was never going to be there for me.
Lola Rose
11-18-2006, 01:10 AM
My father has cheated on my mom in the past numerous times. The last time he did, my mom found out. She heard him on the phone having sex with another woman. Some how he sat on his cel. and dialed the house number. Me and my mother heard the whole thing. My mom ALMOST had a heart attack. Her face turned blue. I was so scared that night. I fucking hated him for what he did, I still do. I don't respect him at all.
Now, who is the one who hurt us here?... HIM. Whether that other woman knew or not, it didn't matter. She's not the problem/the one to blame.
It's the married person who made the vow, an important promise he made to my mom. He is to me a parasite.
I agree with you that he is definatly to blame, but it takes 2. I agree with you that he did something horrible, and I hope he's suffered.
The worst part about cheating to me, is that it can always be avoided. There was no reason for you and your mother to be put through that, or anyone. I can't see how any selfrespecting woman w/ 1/2 a brain would want to do something so selfish, or how any man could do that to his wife and CHILD!!!! Yes, he hurt you, but not alone. The op, knowing all about mom and child, (assuming she does/has fucked him) has arranged for that to happen.
Oh, and I can't believe the cell call was on accident. women who get involved in a dead end affair arrange that type of thing all the time.
PaigeDWinter
11-18-2006, 01:12 AM
Egads she has such a lack of respect for that wife and child. Seriously.
Lola Rose
11-18-2006, 01:26 AM
1. I also have morals, surprise surprise.
2. Also, it's not that I don't have compassion for his wife an kid, it's that I figure they'd be dealing with it in one way or another.
3. His story: He knocked up his girlfriend and married her "because it was the right thing to do." He caught her cheating. He wants a divorce.
4. I found out all this before any romance blossomed. I don't know whether to believe this, and I don't think that 2 wrongs make a right.
5. I frequently ask him if he's ok with doing this,
6. After talking, I figured that it was his problem, not mine, and I was not going to do anything to actively fuck them over.
7. I fully acknowledge that nothing will come of this. At least we're mutually using each other.
8. I'm not dumb enough to date someone in a strip club.
Ok, 1: I find that hard to believe. You are acting so selfish. Morals, in this case, would be to act like a respectable lady, b/c it's the right thing to do, and back away. A person with GOOD morals does the right thing, even when they don't really want to.
2. compassion is pretty damn close to empathy, which I can't find in your situation or posts. More like Apathy.
3. His story!!! Probably made up. When someone wants a divorce, the can easily get it. He's still living with her, right? He must not want out all that bad.
4. you "know" it can go anywhere, and that it's mostly just you 2 using eachother, but there is romance blossoming? is anyone else getting mixed messages?
5. of course he's ok w/ it! He's a 36 ??(w/ev) man w/ a 22yold hot mistress. he's obviously not using his brain to think, but his penis.....
6. ummm. you are. You can only really say that if you were to stay out of it. You are, as you said the catalyst. Someday you'll see that it's definatly your problem as well. Don't you love karma???
7. Wow. I think you're lying to your self, but w/ev...
8. ummm. Words cannot do enough.... I'm sure, given 30minutes on a semibusy night, I could find someone better to date, even in a skeezy club....
sorry this is so agressive, but it needs to be said.
Lola Rose
11-18-2006, 01:30 AM
Egads she has such a lack of respect for that wife and child. Seriously.
I think lack of respect is a vast understatement. They're more like the roach crawling on the floor of an inner city resturant where 1/2 the staff is illegal, right before the health inspector comes. she'll stomp them so bad, their insides will gush out.
Krazyjane
11-18-2006, 01:57 AM
Schadenfreude much, Lola Rose?
Lola Rose
11-18-2006, 02:00 AM
Schadenfreude much, Lola Rose?
I don't think so. I feel sorry for them, you're the one getting something, (sex, or w/ev) out of something painful to others (the wife and kid)
5 points for the vocab word though....
Krazyjane
11-18-2006, 07:17 AM
I'm sure Emile Durkheim would have a field day with your need to use others to ostentatiously use social deviants to define your own status.
I'd like to give a round of thanks to those who PM'd me with the kind of advice I was looking for, but didn't want to get caught in the ugly crossfire from judgmental people who are quick to point fingers but quicker to defend themselves as "special exceptions" if caught with pointed fingers.
VenusGoddess
11-18-2006, 07:35 AM
I'm sure Emile Durkheim would have a field day with your need to use others to ostentatiously use social deviants to define your own status.
I'd like to give a round of thanks to those who PM'd me with the kind of advice I was looking for, but didn't want to get caught in the ugly crossfire from judgmental people who are quick to point fingers but quicker to defend themselves as "special exceptions" if caught with pointed fingers.
You know, I was on the other side at one point (albeit BEFORE I had a child)...and it was not cool. Wrong is wrong no matter how you try to sugar coat it.
Go fuck your friend and I hope that it doesn't come back to bite you in the ass...but believe me...it will.
Optimist
11-18-2006, 08:23 AM
So how long is it going to take to get divorced? Don't do the deed until then! That way if he's bullshitting you won't be even more caught up emotionally.
I met a dude like that who said he was "having problems" with his girl and they were splitting up but a month later (surprise, surprise) they were still together. This is after we made out a few times (no sex) AND he announced to his friends that he and I were dating! Then I get the head's up from the bartender that his girl is 7 months along?! He told me "I'm waiting until after the birth to leave". Ahhhh......what a prince.
twisterinAZ
11-18-2006, 08:36 AM
Just out of curiosity, what were you expecting people to say here? Sorry if you aren't hearing what you wanted to, but I think you need to hear it because your perspective seems flawed.
hardkandee
11-18-2006, 09:56 AM
My husband cheated on me.
It makes me want to cry that you're the woman I hated as I spent my nights alone in my house wondering where my husband was and why he wasn't home yet as I had prepared yet another growing-cold dinner for someone who was never going to be there for me.
Oh god. I know that feeling.
kittygirl
11-18-2006, 10:13 AM
These responses make me wonder if all stippers come from broken homes and cheating dads? Hmmm.
I think the dude is just a loser.
Case in point, when I was 19 I was dating a 33 yr old and thought I was so cool and so hot. Only years later did I realize in disgust ewww he was a loser. Like, only loser dudes date kids - sorry, but this dude I think you will realize someday how pathetic he is.
Just because a girl is young doesn't make her more attractive to a real man. Real people like personalities which come from experience, so ummm he's just gross. If sex were all about youth you wouldn't be tinking of messing with this old fart.
How can you guys excuse him for being a man and dumb and thinking with his penis - that's seriously fucked up. He couldv'e lied, like most do. His marriage his problem.
Anyway, if you do fuck him broadcast it all over to his wife. Let her know what a chump she' married to.
You may be doing her and the kid a favor. He loses her, she moves on a myabe does better, kid lives without morally bankrupt creep who may be so fucked up he might like really young girls. Sorry, but it happens.
I'm sorry, but there is no marriage to save. What marriage are you guys talking about?????
Sometimes things happen for a reason - just amplify the volume so his wife knows - that to me is your only responsibility.
jenna2479
11-18-2006, 10:36 AM
After being in an industry where we all get to see what people are really like, I think it's safe to say that the majority (unfortunately) of people in this world are a waste of space. They contribute nothing good to society. It's sad that you have a complete disregard for a child and mother's life who are going to be deeply affected by what you are doing. Yeah, "if it wasn't you it would be someone else" is probably true, but why would you want it to be you? People who are as selfish and inconsiderate as this deserve the worst that is coming to them. Karma is a great thing.
Lola Rose
11-18-2006, 10:46 AM
After being in an industry where we all get to see what people are really like, I think it's safe to say that the majority (unfortunately) of people in this world are a waste of space. They contribute nothing good to society. It's sad that you have a complete disregard for a child and mother's life who are going to be deeply affected by what you are doing. Yeah, "if it wasn't you it would be someone else" is probably true, but why would you want it to be you? People who are as selfish and inconsiderate as this deserve the worst that is coming to them. Karma is a great thing.
So well said! I love karma, and I think we'll see a post soon enough (if she's not too embarrased to post it) about how bad this sucks and how she's so damaged and w/ev over this. I guess some people just have to lern the hard way.
"do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
kittygirl
11-18-2006, 11:49 AM
I would just tell him off for being scum.
It would be nice if you didn't fuck him, spare yourself the trauma/drama.
But, the other woman is not the "homewrecker" the man is.
The questioin is, "why do you want to fuck a jerk?"
kikiwiki
11-18-2006, 01:36 PM
Like I said before, use him and lose him. Get what you can out of it: money, promotion, something tangable at least. You want something to show for it. We are strippers, this is what we do to our customers. We're not the moral police. Their marriage is thier problem, not ours. We are just doing a job for them, satisfying thier needs. In return they should satisfy ours, whatever those needs may be. For me, it would be money, travel, gifts, and tempoarary companionship. I dont have time for a full time relationship but a beneficial relationship like that is fine for me. I could get perks without the long term drama and ties. As for thinking of thier family, they're not thinking of me, I'm not thinking of them, so we're even. I may be even doing them a favor.They are better off without this guy. So another benefit to this relationship, you may show her his true colors and she will smarten up and leave the jerk. I've dated so many single men that want to just fuck, use me as a trophy and are cheap. This type of relationship is beneficial because you have control. He'll give you what you want and you dont have to keep him around after you're done with him. I know this mentality sounds vicous but this is the world we live in, at least for me in NYC. Hopefully one day this will change and we will find a wealthy, single, faithful, loving man. Until then, most men are liars, cheaters and cheapies. We have to take thier game and make it ours...
Lola Rose- I hate to break it to you but Karma is so overused and overstated that its lost its meaning. And being that you are a dancer, should not throw that term around. There was one time our profession was fiercly, and still is in many ways, rejected by the rest of society. They would always critisize us for what we do. What is your justification that Karma wont get back to you for dancing?For married men?
VenusGoddess
11-18-2006, 01:39 PM
^ Would you fix your siggy??
Jenny
11-18-2006, 01:42 PM
Like I said before, use him and lose him. Get what you can out of it: money, promotion, something tangable at least. You want something to show for it. We are strippers, this is what we do to our customers. We're not the moral police.
The contestable veracity of that statement notwithstanding, do we need to point out that he is NOT a customer?
Lola Rose
11-18-2006, 01:57 PM
Lola Rose- I hate to break it to you but Karma is so overused and overstated that its lost its meaning. And being that you are a dancer, should not throw that term around. There was one time our profession was fiercly, and still is in many ways, rejected by the rest of society. They would always critisize us for what we do. What is your justification that Karma wont get back to you for dancing?For married men?
I'm not sure I fully understand you, but I think I can piece it together.
Just b/c karma is "cliché" doesn't make it apply any less, imo. Yes, dancing has a price, and I know that. I've been willing to pay it, and I'm well aware of how many people did, and do, reject dancers as real people.
As part of that price, I have to work extra hard sometimes to be given a fair chance, to not be judged. I don't mind that, in fact, I believe it helps me. I know I'm being judged, and I hold myself to high standards, by being compassionate, giving, and a hard worker. It's difficult, but it pays off. By getting good grades, vollunteering, acting decently and respectable, I'm able to prove that I'm still a good person, just one with an uncommon job. For me, that is what is mst important. To be a good person. I would absolutely hate myself if I acted so selfishly.
Karma really has nothing to do with me dancing. It seems like you are confused, so I'll give you an example...
1. if you were to scrape up against a car and damage it in the parking lot of the store, then leave, and the next day someone slashes your tires, that is karma. kinda ironic, right?
2. If you cheat with a married man, then in a later relationship your man cheats on you, and it practically distroyes you, that's karma.
I don't see how society judging my job being karma, but feel free to explain it to me. :soapbox:
Lola Rose
11-18-2006, 01:59 PM
The contestable veracity of that statement notwithstanding, do we need to point out that he is NOT a customer?
I think I could be in love with you right now ;D
PaigeDWinter
11-18-2006, 02:10 PM
I'd like to give a round of thanks to those who PM'd me with the kind of advice I was looking for, but didn't want to get caught in the ugly crossfire from judgmental people who are quick to point fingers but quicker to defend themselves as "special exceptions" if caught with pointed fingers.
Quick to defend? How many of us said "Sure we fucked a guy with a loving family but you shouldnt do it!" ? Um... none? You got the replies you got because we would never want to be that guy's wife or child. Nuff said. Did you really think, in a world where Adultery is commonly ILLEGAL and considered immoral by a vast majority, that you would get a fucking award for what you're doing?
Vyanka
11-18-2006, 02:33 PM
OMG how old were you when that happened? Man, I can only imagine what was going through your moms mind. It's one thing to HEAR ie. gossip that your s.o. is cheating..it's another thing to actually SEE it!
Twenty one. She didn't see, we both heard it over the phone. Which was just as sickening.
kikiwiki
11-18-2006, 04:13 PM
The contestable veracity of that statement notwithstanding, do we need to point out that he is NOT a customer?
Any man who isn't available, and desires my "attention" gets treated by me as if he were a customer. I meet married men all the time, as customers, and they want to sleep with me. I play thier fantasy until time is up. Isnt that what we do as entertainers? Now if I meet a man, outside of the club, and he is married, and he is interested in me, and wealthy, I would look into what's in it for me. Obviously I cant dance for him. How else can I cash in on this loser? Hey, this is where I stand: If he's good looking and if I can get something out of it, then what the hell? Why not? It's not often you come across situations like this. I really hope Kj has fun and gets alot out of her relationship with this guy while she can.
Lola Rose- Let's just agree to disagree on the whole Karma thing. We obviously dont see eye to eye.
Corina
11-18-2006, 04:33 PM
OMG how old were you when that happened? Man, I can only imagine what was going through your moms mind. It's one thing to HEAR ie. gossip that your s.o. is cheating..it's another thing to actually SEE it!
I wasn't married at the time, but was living with an SO. I saw him, naked, doing it doggie, on the bed that my parents bought for me when I was like three years old.
Because I wasn't married and I was a young adult (21), I didn't have a heart attack, but I was pretty shocked. It was hard to breathe for aboug five minutes and there was a gun in the house. I went for it but a mutual friend, (his buddy, fucked up and passed out on the couch) came too and grabbed it from me and told me to go outside. I went in the kitchen and broke some appliances and dishes and then strangely, I calmed down and felt in control. I didn't blame the girl it all. (She was really hot and really drunk). I just told him to get her the fuck off of my bed. MY BED!! >:( She had no idea I existed. She was dressed, outside and waiting for her ride home. I never blamed her or saw her again.
I had a new place to live within two days.
What's my point? Hearing or seeing something like that can have a physical effect that can last for years. Luckily, I was not with this person for very long and wasn't even sure if I really loved him. So, if anything, I learned a lesson and did not live with a lover for a very, very long time.
Lysondra
11-18-2006, 04:41 PM
I don't understand men. My mum caught my father as well in her own home when she was 8 months pregnant.
Men (alright Mast, cheating men!) are so stupid. Who the fuck, well, fucks someone else where they live?! Like, um, DUH!
Emily
11-18-2006, 04:44 PM
Now if I meet a man, outside of the club, and he is married, and he is interested in me, and wealthy, I would look into what's in it for me. Obviously I cant dance for him. How else can I cash in on this loser?
well, then you'd be "working", not "dating". Hopefully you wouldn't date someone you considered to be a loser. It's obvious from the OP that she is enjoying their relationship on a personal level and that she is not working him.
LilSweetVixen
11-18-2006, 05:56 PM
I fully acknowledge that nothing will come of this. At least we're mutually using each other. He's getting a free shrink, I'm getting... what ever I'll get out of it. Conversation?
Conversation?? That's all you're getting out of this?
Man reading these threads just reminds of how unfair things are for women. If we're good girls we get lied to and cheated on, told we're loved until we get attached and heartbroken, and the guy gets away with it, because he's a guy and can't help himself. And if we decide to just have no strings attached sex with single guys, we get looked down on as dirty sluts who could never find someone willing to marry them. And people just accept this, I don't know if it's because of guy's money or because women are desperate to feel loved. I am so a lesbian!!>:(
Vyanka
11-18-2006, 06:15 PM
I don't see your point. This would be completely acceptable by society's standards. The other woman is the whore, but the other man is just a man, and the cheating wife in many societies can get murdered.
I'm with Jenny, she's right as usual. The guy is at fault. Anyway, get some money out of him without doing anything that constitutes cheating and then move along.
Yeah, it's gender hypocrisy. ::) If it were a married woman banging a hot young guy, no one would preach to him that he's wrong for ruining a marriage. Instead he'll get praised, get a pat on the back. But it's okay, bc he has a dick. Give me a break. ::) And it would totally be the wife's fault alone, for teasing a guy's cock. She would be the whore, and no one else.
That husband still had the intentions of fucking another pussy anyway. Whether it be Jane or someone else. Typical married DOUCHEBAG that needs to get strange once in a while. haha...pls. Those married assholes like that are only good for one thing, or two. A casual fuck and dry sucking his account. They don't deserve any type of respect.
And what about in strip clubs where plenty of married men go in there w/o the wives knowing...is it the dancer's fault he walked up in there? NO, of course not. It's like that same type of scenerio if you ask me. lying/cheating=same thing.
Kinder
11-18-2006, 06:21 PM
This is how you have an affair with a guy without the emotional baggage, from a guys perspective. 1) Get more things going in your life besides a job and a guy. 2) Don't like the guy just because other girls do too (my ex was married and saw all the attention I got from other women, so she just had to have me too, as if I was some kind of prize in a chick competion) 3) Try to genuinely like women more than you like guys (It's well known that women don't really like other women, and are too competitive with each other) 4) Write down and read everyday the consequences of your action if you pursue this relationship any longer (there are children involved). 5) Try not to idealize this guy, he is just like any other guy who cheats on his wife---He's trying to have his cake and eat it too, at your expense and his kid.
And if you really want to learn the secret of emotional detachment....learn how not to cry. Men have been holding their emotions back for years, so we can easily go from woman to woman without a blink of an eye.
kittenkat
11-18-2006, 07:31 PM
Vyanka,
I'm with you there.
Anyhoo... THe person is a relationship/marriage that is doing the cheating is the most to blame- not KJ. Is KJ completely blameless? No, but she's not the person the most responsilbe for whatever mess the man makes of his family- it's the man's problem that could very likely spill over and create a big headache for KJ.
We all play with shades of grey all the time- if not with this issue, but with other issues. So, I disagree with other posters that are putting 50% or more of the blame on KJ for the marriage of her man failing- as far as I'm concerned, the man's marriage has already failed the minute he decided that he was interested in pursuing something outside the marriage. Him acting on it only sealed the deal, but the envelope, letter, stamp and signature was all prepared to go way beforehand. Chances are, this man had made a decision way prior to KJ. KJ is not ruining this man's marraige- HE IS. HE IS SCREWING OVEr HIS WIFE AND KIDS first and foremost.
We all, to a degree, have responsibilities to others. Do unto others only goes so far. There's lots of crap people do that breeds far more misery in others, like the diamond trade or sweatshop labor.
My only concern is that people not get into what they're not prepared to handle. The headaches that come from being involved in an affair can explode and get messy real quick- and turn into a gynormous headache. I've never met one person over the long-term that said the affair was worth the cost, but that's just my experience. I just like to see people avoid things that would cause them grief in the long run, and it seems like IMHO, for KJ- that this has a high probability to things going badly. I just hope the risk and the consequences are worth spending her energy and time on a guy that has proven himself to be dishonest.
evan_essence
11-18-2006, 09:17 PM
Well I dont KNOW if my customers are married or not.Neither did I unless it came up during a conversation or someone else who knew the guy mentioned it or the guy hadn't taken off his wedding ring. I didn't attempt to obtain the information, even surreptiously. Assuming the responsibility of screening would have interfered with selling.
And if I did, and I knew for a fact that their being there would be considered cheating by their wives? I wouldnt dance for them.Well, here's where I'm coming from. I pretty much assume that there's a certain percentage of married men as customers and that most wives would not approve of such things. I don't need to run a focus group to circumstantially reach that conclusion with what I feel is a reasonable degree of certainty. And there were a few I knew for sure that they used it as a secret night of stepping out because they volunteered the info, but I wasn't compelled to stop because, hey, they're the customer and always right, ya know.
But I am NOT knowingly heling a man ruin his family's life. The OP is.I assumed I was facilitating a certain percentage of my customer's action of cheating on their wives via their attendance, and that it wasn't exactly conducive to repairing a broken relationship. Even though I didn't know which ones or what percentage, I still believed it was happening, given that I was not screening out married men. Regardless of what some might deem a blatant disregard on my part, I maintain it was the customer's responsibility to regulate himself, not mine.
I am also not fucking my customers, which does not make me an adulteress. Going to a strip club is somewhere in between looking at nude art and lookin at a porno mag, IMHO.... whereas some women may find this to be cheating/violation of their relationship, I dare say it isnt comparable to sleeping with someone.I agree that, generally, it's not the same as sleeping with someone, albeit it's not really up to me to define the impact; it's the spouse's. I do suspect it's easier to repair a damaged relationship from a transgression like going to a strip club than a full-scale sexual affair. But I think a married man going to a strip club without his wife's consent is a step beyond looking at nude art or passive porn. And how damaging it is depends on the customer's extent of involvement - emotionally, physically and financially.
I'm not arguing that it's exactly the same; I'm saying since we deal in this gray area without assuming responsibility for how it impacts others, I'm surprised at the harshness of some of the responses. (It also strikes me as ironic that I've read on this site, from time to time, other dancers commenting about how if the wives kept themselves up, the hubbies wouldn't be running off for lapdances. I suppose the relevancy of that to this thread is arguable but I wonder where the folks who express that kind of assignment of responsiblity are hiding on this topic.)
-Ev
kittygirl
11-18-2006, 09:24 PM
I think a lot of wives would feel betrayed if they knew their man was touching some dancer's titties.
Some even consider it cheating. So do you all screen your customers. Imagine if their kid found out he was giving somebody kid's allowance for BJ's.
Pretty gnarly.
How can anyone here say he is less responsible b/c he has a dick or guys are dumb. All I can say is I pity you fools. I hold my men to higher standards.
What marriage are you all trying to save. It's over already. I just think KJ probably deserves better than a loser who doesn't really care about his own child.
Why do so many of us excuse men who want to watch other girls dance and try to grope them - when they are married - but have no empathy for someone like KJ who is misguidedly seeking an emotional connection. DOUBLE STANDARD.
And to everyone who is making her out to be evil. I say all you b's better screen all of your customers cause some wives might be little pissed you are grinding their man's dick. In fact, I hope they come find you and fuck you shit up - KARMA.
I don't see your point. This would be completely acceptable by society's standards. The other woman is the whore, but the other man is just a man, and the cheating wife in many societies can get murdered.
Well interesting perspective. As a man, I saw the approach in my rewording as just being wrong. Having an affair with someone elses spouse- unless all consent- is just not right
I'm with Jenny, she's right as usual. The guy is at fault.
Lil- I would say that they are both at fault. The minute she knew he was married with child she had some ownership of the issue. IF he did not tell her, then he owned 100% of the issue
PaigeDWinter
11-18-2006, 11:19 PM
What marriage are you all trying to save. It's over already.
If it were over they'd be divorced.
Why do so many of us excuse men who want to watch other girls dance and try to grope them - when they are married - but have no empathy for someone like KJ who is misguidedly seeking an emotional connection. DOUBLE STANDARD.
And to everyone who is making her out to be evil. I say all you b's better screen all of your customers cause some wives might be little pissed you are grinding their man's dick. In fact, I hope they come find you and fuck you shit up - KARMA.
SOME women consider their husbands going to a SC to be cheating. ALL women (not including oen and poly relationships) consider fucking someone else to be cheating. Like I said earlier, if I KNEW that a customer's marraige could crash and burn because he is at the club, I would NOT dance for him.
And speak for yourself about dick grinding. I dont grind anything. Gross.
kittygirl
11-18-2006, 11:46 PM
I guarantee this man will probably never file for divoirce. She will. He obviously is too afraid to be single. I still believe the marriage is over, because if I knew who she was I would definitely let her know what her man is doing.
If she has enough self-respect she would probably say it's over knowing what he wants to do.
Why enable the fucking charade to go on? for the kid? maybe dude likes really little girls or at the very best isn't a good role model
I say the best thing that could ever happen to his wife is she be free to find a better man.
I think a mistress' sole responsibility is to leave making sure the wife knows what an ass she needs to get away from.
What is more noble about taking money from a guy for activities that could hurt his wife???
Honestly, if a guy was to cheat on me and ruin our relationship it sure as hell better be for more noble reasons than "I needed sexual stimulation". He better LOVE this bitch and have a relationship or he has cheapened our relationship even more.
evan_essence
11-19-2006, 04:38 AM
And to everyone who is making her out to be evil. I say all you b's better screen all of your customers cause some wives might be little pissed you are grinding their man's dick. In fact, I hope they come find you and fuck you shit up - KARMA.Yikes. Um, okay. Your approach underscores why I tried hard to phrase my discussion of this specific point in a non-attack, issue-oriented philosophical kind of way. Not that I have the authority to enforce this, but I'd like to suggest that we all take deep breaths and refrain from wishing any b__ch's sh_t be f__ked up during the discussion.
In spite of the fact that this topic is contentious and emotions are apt to run high, we've been playing relatively nice with one another. Otherwise, I surmise the moderators are about two seconds away from locking and/or deleting. Even though we seem to be emphasizing or disagreeing about various aspects of the situation, no one appears to be suggesting affairs are wise or proper... okay, maybe one exception... so most of us do have that common viewpoint.
-Ev
Mastridonicus
11-19-2006, 05:42 AM
Despite the psych-evaluation of a man we only know through krazyjanes eyes... or rather, her fingertips, I don't want to believe, actually I refuse to believe, that, though responsibility falls on both, that something like this DOESN'T prey on self control.
C'mon, how many of you people have ever been willing to believe any story even if we have to augment it and manufacture the "unseen" accessories to said situation in our head just to interpret it in such a way that it allows for us to believe in a glimmer of hope that doesn't even remotely exist to any third party peers?
How many times have I seen a gorgeous woman smile at me and I read her body language in hopes that she's imagining de-pantsing me, when, in truth, it was probably the guy behind me? Or maybe she was hoping I'd buy her a beer....
How many times have we been verbally or physically slapped by a man regardless of past actions/sayings, we choose to still believe he loves us just cause he said it at an integral time?
Emotions are very strong. Attraction can be equally strong because of the emotions manufactured from it. I'm not an idiot, I know when I'm seeing it, and I use it in a gamble for a free coffee, or fast shipping from flirt.com (you guys ever buy from them? OY!).
My real mother was a manipulative bitch. She knew this. And she taught me one cruel key to her trade: "Everyone wants something. Good for them or not.(my addition) If you can either be who/what they want, or display yourself as a key interval in getting what they want, you have control over that person"
Krazyjane is attracted. Guy X finds out, and flirts, to which Krazyjane plays back. Eventually a crossroads comes.
Take it from a guy who was divorced. I never cheated, but I'm being hung by my ballhair like I was. For me, not cheating carried no post-marital benefit. It was only valuable to me.
I also know some married guys who cheated, who got off scott free because there was a wake-up call that mutually the spouse wasn't what the other wanted in the marriage.
Sure there's gray area, but it's all the same hue.
You, as a reader, have 2 options here,
1) hate the fact that chemistry happened between 2 people that ended up in sexual activity above and beyond that of what was allowed in the assumed monogamous relationship between one of the members and a third party.
2) acknowledge the truth that chemistry happens, and when it's good, we are normally left manufacturing our own fantasies, and that the KrazyJane was not doing anything wrongful in intent, since she has no limitations, however that a man with emotional limitations is choosing to walk all over his commitments to such a degree that he's asserting himself as the want of someone else.
Example:
"I don't love her anymore baby, I love you, as soon as I leave her, it's you and I!"
1) "Why would you do this to me? Make yourself available in this way? You're marrid?"
2)"You'd leave her for me? You love me that much? *swoon*"
Yes blame is equal, but KJ has no responsibilities to observe a marriage that exists in sporadic conversations on a most likely 'I-don't-want-to-talk-about-it' basis.
In my opinion? Maybe they'll get caught, the wife will stop wasting her life and leave him, find a better man sooner (since the man is obviously asserting a manifestation of want to the wife even in lack of action), and when he tries to fall on KJ, his silver medal, he'll find out that his manipulative machinations where only existent in HIS mind and KJ will, most likely, lose all attraction to him as a result, (hey available guys going through the drama of a divorce are highly coveted... *blank stare*), KJ will move on... and be the hero, both to the wife and her potentially newfound love or truth at a minimum, to the guy and an his now open decision on whether to continue to manipulate or not, and her getting something out of her system and eventually moving on.
Yea, I know. Obscure. But, I don't care... It's my P.O.V. A man/woman is single the minute he/she decides to act single. If he/she's legally/emotionally/religiously bound to someone else it is their responsibility to have value to their own integrity and whether or not they care how others in the situation view them as a result of actions that show they aren't worth the water their composed of.
I've slept with a married woman, and I watched her and her husband both become better people for it
Nautilus
11-19-2006, 05:27 PM
^^ i really must thank you for helping our marriage like that, mast. **blush**