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DylanAngel
11-27-2006, 10:13 PM
Perhaps the wording isn't ideal, but fat women want to be seen as sexy too.

I agree. As I said in one of my posts, I find the "unreal" part offensive. I feel like I'm in the minority, but definitely real. And I never realized until this thread how many of us there are, so that's heartening.

BTW, I can relate to not finding sexy clothes. I was in my mid 20's before I fit into junior's sizes. We're talking about the 80's here. Little girls didn't dress like hoochies back then so my options were extremely limited.

Thank God Spandex pants came out for us heavy metal gals or I wouldn't have had much to wear to the clubs. (no teasing here please...I'm too old and fragile to be made fun of anymore lol)

And I applaud the clothing industry for making options for ALL women...from size 0 and beyond.

mollyzmoon
11-27-2006, 10:19 PM
I've been teased about both. I used to be, well never emaciated but skinny boy built anyway...and I was teased for having no boobs a little. But I didn't really mind all that much...

And i've been called fat, well in certain ways...Yeah, fat. Nothing makes me feel worse than being called fat. I'm a little screwed up about my body image, but the minute my grandma says anything about my waistline, I'm done. I won't eat for days. I go crazy. When people say "oh, you've lost weight", or "oh, you look so skinny these days" I inwardly self-congratulate. Someone saying to me at work "those boobs can't be real, you're so thin" is the BEST thing I've ever heard. I adore being called thin, although I'm not really. Slender-ish, at best of times.

I don't know...At my thinnest I was 5'7", 105 pounds (I was seventeen at the time), and my doctor thought me anorexic, my friends made comments, and I loved it. And I got a whole lot of male attention too. I looked like skeletor too (I've seen pictures and counted the ribs). ANd to be that thin, for me, I wasn't anorexic but I was dieting a lot. I was flirting with an eating disorder I guess. Maybe I'm pathological that way, but am I wrong to think that I loved that look for a reason? Like maybe society makes a thin girl a little more accepted? There is a difference in the way a friend will make a comment about how thin you are than when they passive-aggressively make a comment about how fat you've gotten. The first might sound bitter, but the second one is belittling.

I just have such a hard time pitying the thin. Yes, it would be awsome if we could all have perfect proportions, but the world as it is now, life's a little harder for those pushing the larger end of the spectrum. I'm ranting...I have insane amounts of angst about my weight, so maybe my opinion could be a little discounted. But feel good knowing you'll never be the fat girl, if you need to feel a little better. Lol, really, being called fat destroys. Sometimes I just look in the mirror and cry and cry and cry. I was watching an eating disorder documentary the other day, and one girl said she sliced her wrists over two pieces of pizza...and all I could think was how awsome it would be to have arms as thin as hers...Wow, I'm all emotional right now. I don't know if there's a point in all that, except maybe forgive me if I can't commiserate with this one.

scarlett_vancouver
11-27-2006, 10:33 PM
molly clear your pm box

DylanAngel
11-27-2006, 10:44 PM
I don't know if there's a point in all that, except maybe forgive me if I can't commiserate with this one.

Molly, maybe that IS the point here and one that we thinner women miss. Thank you for enlightening me.

I would never want to slice my wrists over being thin and would not resort to bad eating habits and no exercise just to bulk up.

Your emotional post was very poignant.

So, on my end, consider it point well taken and I'm outta here.

Jenny
11-27-2006, 10:48 PM
We're getting way off topic here and it's useless to argue with anyone who hasn't actually been on either side of this fence. Teasing hurts, no matter what and I don't think anyone can argue with that.
Yes, but again - not all teasing is created equal and it is ridiculously naive to say it is. Some names, to put it simply, are worse than others. And I don't think anyone can viably argue with that.

Saying that my observation is invalid because I'm on neither side is just another way of silencing people who don't share your experience. If I had been teased for being fat, then I'd just be one of the selfish, immoral fat women that you and Bridgette described. So the way you construct this, the only way to have a valid opinion is to share your experience. Cute.

And I did make that twinkie comment. I use it in defense when someone asks me how my finger tastes or something of that nature. To assume that I'm sick and not naturally thin is presumptuous (sp?).
Sure. Presumptuous. Why not. I mean, we have no problem making assumption about overweight people; go back to the thread about the preteen who had liposuction. "I'm sorry but..." she's just a lazy fat pig was the order of the day. The more I pointed out that people were making huge assumptions about her life and lifestyle the more everyone insisted that she and her parents were bad people because she was fat. And presumption of illness in some of the weights that have been mentioned here are not far off the mark. There are, literally, people starving to death in south east asia who weigh more than that. So people might be wrong - it doesn't make it preposterous by any stretch.


If it's truly meant as a compliment, how about saying "wow, I 'm so jealous that you're thin" or "it must be great to be that thin"? Why make it a backhanded compliment?
I don't know. I've said to my roommate "Go back inside and change immediately. You look too much better than me". I would be pretty taken aback if she responded to something like that she didn't force me to look so ugly.


The original topic was that we are not perceived as "real women" or even representative of "real women". I am naturally thin...how exactly does that make me unreal? It makes me in the minority maybe, but rest assured I am real.
No. And I did say in my first response that the "unreality" they are juxtaposing themselves with is not you as a thin woman, but a media construction of what women should look like.

sc0101
11-27-2006, 10:54 PM
Yes, but again - not all teasing is created equal and it is ridiculously naive to say it is. Some names, to put it simply, are worse than others. And I don't think anyone can viably argue with that.

I think it depends soley on the person receiving it. People take teasing different ways, so I don't think it's possible to say universally one word is worse than another, because they all affect people differently. The worst word in the world by most people's standards may not affect someone at all, but one of the tiniest might.

Darcy Foxx
11-27-2006, 10:54 PM
i'm actually very similar to molly.

i'm not 'fat' by any means, but i'm certainly bigger. i really have to carefully watch what i eat or i turn into a fucking blimp.

i've spent countless hours looking in the mirror crying and pulling at my hips and ass and thighs and stomach, wishing they'd go away. i've used meth, coke and ecstasy every day for extended periods of time to the point that i've been completely insane, just because it made me feel thin. in the past i've actually tried to force myself into developing an eating disorder or a serious drug habit because i wanted to be stick thin so badly. i've starved myself, i worked out til i passed out, and i've had anxiety attacks and not left the house for days at a time because i was so convinced that everyone who saw me would laugh at me because i was fat. i've become damn near suicidal over customers telling me i have "thick" thighs or just outright calling me a "fatty" when i'm on stage.

like molly, i simply cannot pity anyone who is naturally thin. when i was at my absolute height of coke addiction, i was very very skinny, and people often told me that, but it never felt anywhere near as bad as people calling me fat.

DylanAngel
11-27-2006, 11:00 PM
As much as I love verbally sparring with you Jenny, I'm going to let Molly, and now Darcy have the last word on this one out of respect for what they've been through and are still going though.

I refuse to be the one that makes these beautiful women feel that they have to explain themselves and the pain they've been through.

I've said my piece and, as I said before, I'm outta here.

sassysummer
11-27-2006, 11:39 PM
I would never want to slice my wrists over being thin and would not resort to bad eating habits and no exercise just to bulk up.



But see, i did...most everyone that knows me, knows i'm a pretty happy go lucky type person..but in those junior high/high school years, it was brutal. i was very sad for being so skinny, although i hid it very well. i did try to bulk up..protein shakes, extra meals etc.. i DID cry when i was teased. i DID have a bitch of time finding clothes to fit my super long scrawny ass legs...i needed a size 0, but they didn't really make 0's back then, so I either had to go to the little girls section and a get size 14, which gave me that oh so lovely high water look, or had to get to the size 3's so that the length would fit, but forget about the waist! Even with my round belly. try finding a belt small enough to hold those damn pants up! I DID have a very hard time finding getting a boyfriend..even though I was 'pretty".

this was in the south though, so maybe that has something to do with it. they do like their women a tad "meatier" and lord knows i heard it from everyone that i need "eat a cheeseburger".


I just don't like the wording...saying that if you are overweight, you are a real woman, is saying that if you are not overweight, or god forbid, underweight, you aren't a real woman.


Ok, how bout we start a new "campaign" how bout..

"I am a real woman because I have a vagina and you don't!" lol

FrustratedBunny
11-27-2006, 11:47 PM
I used to get picked on as a kid for being so skinny. When I got into high school I started to try to gain weight. And SURPRISE! I could gain weight and gained too much and since then have been fighting to keep it off.

What I always wonder is why they call the larger women's department in some stores the "Women's department." It confuses me because other stores like Banana Republic will be called "Banana Republic Women" but that's just all the women's clothing. I guess if they called it the "big and tall dept" like they do with men a whole bunch of ladies would be upset though.

Bridgette
11-27-2006, 11:55 PM
I am 33 years old and haven't been "skinny" since my early 20s. But I STILL get offended and hurt when someone calls me skinny, even though I know full well I'm at a perfectly healthy body weight and that I have a nice womanly figure. It's just a leftover reaction to the old days. We have had girls on this very thread talking about how they ate ridiculous foods trying to gain weight because they were teased so much - I did it too. Overeating to fit in is just as unhealthy as undereating, people.

Like other girls here, I also had a hard time finding clothes to fit me, because I had to shop in the little girls section until my senior year. It was fucken EMBARRASSING. I LOATHED shopping, because I couldn't find pants to fit me right, ever. I HATED gym class because I hated having to put on those stupid shorts so everyone could see my skinny-ass legs and knobby knees and laugh at them. I NEVER wore shorts to school, even when I could. I HATED having to change in the girls' locker room for gym. Even my family made fun of how skinny I was.

Tell me all this is not as bad as the fat thing. Since when is any name-calling not equal??? I sincerely do not get that. Because ANY type of making fun of people leads them to feel insecure about themselves. It simply does not matter which side of the fence you're on. If you're predisposed to take that kind of thing seriously, you will, regardless of what the teasing is about. Likewise, if you're predisposed to let that shit roll off, you will do so, whether you're 90 lbs or 300.

It has nothing to do with needing to silence anyone or make them agree with me. It has to do with wanting people to see that ALL types of making fun of people and/or making comments meant to exclude is hurtful and mean. Always. It doesn't matter if you're fat, skinny, blond, brunette, short, tall, white, brown, yellow, whatever. It's all the same kind of hurt.

I fucking RESENT people trying to say that "skinny girl" problems are any less painful or hurtful on the self-esteem than other people's problems, or implying that those problems are somehow more petty than others. "My problems are much worse than yours; you don't know what it's like, so quit complaining about your petty little problems, because mine are much more important." That's what this crap sounds like.



As far as the girls who were BOTH skinny and fat at one time and made fun of for both, yet disliked the fat thing more. That is a product of your own predisposition and the fact you were fat FIRST, so you always wanted to be skinnier, hence being told you're skinny doesn't seem that bad. It doesn't make the hurt that someone else feels, hurt any less.

Fawn
11-27-2006, 11:56 PM
I deffinately have a hard time finding clothes. I've got quite a long waist and a meduim to large looks like I'm swimming in a shirt, but a small comes up almost to my belly button. Pant's wont fit both my ass and waisty at the same time, or the high water problem.

And that is so true about the south. I live in texas, an dbelieve me when I tell you here a bit overweigjht is much more apealing than a bit underweight. I saw it in my schools, at my club, on the street. Hell, people don't make songs about skinny girls..., but there are plenty about the thicker girls. Many many many. They are all running through my head right now.

And, I too have put back clothes that made me look "skinny."

Dottie Rebel
11-28-2006, 04:12 AM
I don't know why anyone is arguing over who hurts more. How can psychological pain be quantified? NO ONE DESERVES TO BE RIDICULED FOR THE WAY THEY LOOK. It's callous and uncivilized and inexcusable. What is there to argue about?

I was chunky and terribly happy from about 13 on. I starved myself, puked, exercised obsessively. For some strange reason, my metabolism has changed and now, at 26, I am, arguably, skinny. I spent years obsessing about being overweight. So you'd think the first time I overheard someone say something about the "anorexic stickfigure" (referring to me) that I'd be thrilled, right? Well I wasn't.

My father has severe anxiety and is not able to eat because of it. With tears in his eyes he has told me, "Hun, I wish I could eat. I can't explain why I can't. I know it's hard to understand. I just CAN'T." He is 5'7" and weighs 110 pounds. He cannot put on weight. People constantly feel free to make fun of him for being skinny.

My roommate is 5'9" and 120 pounds (this may not sound skinny, but girlfriend is pretty damn thin). She gets made fun of for being skinny and it hurts her feelings.

I've had both of these people in my life express the frustration to me that people feel entitled to say whatever the hell they want to thin people. It's not as much of a faux pas as pointing out that someone is overweight.

kittygirl
11-28-2006, 05:33 AM
I agree that it's not right to make nasty comments like this about any woman.

But, I have been on both ends.

I was overweight (well, not really even, just thought I was) as a late teen. I was probably just bigger boned than most. Before you claim that's an excuse of the fat - I was only down to a size 6/8 as an 85 pound anorexic.

The type of abuse you get when you're "fat" is derision and ridicule, especially as someone sexually unattractive to guys. Think "pig", "gross", "lardass".

When I became anorexic the tables were turned and yes I was ridiculed for being too thin. However, I believe the taunting was more out of concern to get me to wake the fuck up and eat. It was less derisive and more like they felt sorry for me for being so skinny.

My last word on this is that even when I was anorexic I constantly denied I had an eating disorder. This is what people with eating disorders do.

So, if people are telling you to eat a fucking cheeseburger and you get upset over it it may be very indicative of an eating disorder. I found it rare that people make fun like that of people who are just naturally skinny or healthy. It's most often used to alert you that you've got a problem.

Most anorexics don't think they have a problem. I even said it was natural, and I was bullshitting.

I find it very rare that people make fun of healthy skinny people, they envy them.

The whole "real woman" thing for me is that skinny as I was I was weak. Some people find that attractive and "feminine". The whole "real woman" thing I think is to value the strength that comes from HEALTH and how that is womanly too. I personnally feel that only my anorexic self would have a problem with such a positive message.

PhillyDancer1982
11-28-2006, 09:19 AM
I think the reason that heavier women(and the subsequent marketing ploys that are aimed at them) call themselves "real women" is a self-esteem boost thing. In the past, they were probably ignored by guys and passed over for the thinner girl. During these times of rejection by the opposite sex, they probably felt like anything BUT a woman. So they gotta overcompensate by saying things(and marketing companies saying things also) like "REAL women have curves" and "we're real women." The marketing scheme might also be calling heavy-set women "real women" because the average womens' size is a 14...which is kinda big.

But I have flip side to this "real women" issue. Just as heavy-set women have gotten ignored or even ridiculed by the opposite sex, so have too-skinny and/or uncurvy girls. When I was younger, do you know just HOW much ridicule and snubbing that I received because I was flat-chested? I even remember times that guys would be gawking at busty girls(even if they had a little more meat on their bones than me) and would make comments in my presence that the girl had a "womanly figure." Did that mean that *I* wasn't a woman, because I had the physique of a 12-year-old?(the only difference, was I was taller than a 12-yr-old; I'm 5'7") I'll tell you right now: ever since I got my fake boobs over a year ago, I feel like SO much more of a woman.

But society doesn't want us to feel like a woman because of superficial things or cosmetic surgery...society is constantly downing girls because they want to get lipo or tummy tucks or boob jobs. Look at the ridicule Tara Reid got! For example, my own experiences. Before I got my BA, there were guys telling me not to get it and telling me that natural was best...and these were the same guys who'd made "cute little jokes" about me being flat-chested before. So if the big girl ad campaigns can call plus-sized women "real women," maybe the companies that produce "Almost A" and "Almost B" halfway-sized bras can run a campaign titled "bras for REAL women" too?

Eh, whatever. The whole "flat chested women are real women too" thing doesn't even apply to me anymore, so I don't really care that much. I guess I'm just trying to be consistent.

mollyzmoon
11-28-2006, 09:49 AM
As far as the girls who were BOTH skinny and fat at one time and made fun of for both, yet disliked the fat thing more. That is a product of your own predisposition and the fact you were fat FIRST, so you always wanted to be skinnier, hence being told you're skinny doesn't seem that bad. It doesn't make the hurt that someone else feels, hurt any less.


I was skinny first though. And don't get me wrong, I was teased. Friends would pull their shirts out in front of them to laugh at my flat, bony chest. I was in sports and wouldn't get picked because I looked like such a weakling reedy thing. When I was a size zero, friends would straight up resentfully tell me I was anorexic. It was hard to find clothes, but maybe I'm that generation that had tons of size zeros everywhere. It could be found.

But none of it bothered me THAT much, because I could just open a damn magazine and lo and behold, everyone looked like me. IHey, Kate Moss has some bony ass legs too! Look at Giselle's rib cage!! Sure I got negative attention when I was thin (and I had never been 'fat' before very skinny...I was 120 pounds and went down to 105...and all the comments I got about the difference- I FUCKING LOVED IT.)

I would still LOVE to lose thirty pounds and be a waif. Right now I'm 5'7" and a half, and I weigh 129 pounds, and would love, love, love to weigh 110 or so. Love it. I'd adore having size zero fall off me. Because having people look at me, and say "oh, you've gained weight" or "oh, maybe don't wear those pants, they make you look a little heavier", or "oh, geez, you need to tone that tummy", or my coach saying "I need you to do some more running, because it doesn't look like you're gonna make that weight class", or my other coach saying "listen to that horse panting? you wanna make his life harder?" makes me want to drive my car off a bridge.

To never have to worry about looking fat? Ugh...anyway. I was never heavier than about 145pounds in my life. But I was crawling out of my skin I felt so fat. Anyway, not to get hysterical...but jesus christ. I'm saying it sucks to be made fun of, for sure, but isn't there a little bit of a difference when at least every second celebrity you see is trying to have 'your problem' too? This Dove campaign, sure thin people can be disgusted by it, and I guarantee you no one with body issues is going to be fooled. I have D cup tits, and it doesn't make me feel like a real woman. Fuck, it makes me feel like a heifer.

Anyway, I won't go on being hysterical. Just saying...last year my mom got me a scale for Christmas. Ha. I was 135 pounds. That would not have happened if I was 115 pounds. Just saying.

sassysummer
11-28-2006, 11:01 AM
The type of abuse you get when you're "fat" is derision and ridicule, especially as someone sexually unattractive to guys. Think "pig", "gross", "lardass".

When I became anorexic the tables were turned and yes I was ridiculed for being too thin. However, I believe the taunting was more out of concern to get me to wake the fuck up and eat. It was less derisive and more like they felt sorry for me for being so skinny.

My last word on this is that even when I was anorexic I constantly denied I had an eating disorder. This is what people with eating disorders do.

So, if people are telling you to eat a fucking cheeseburger and you get upset over it it may be very indicative of an eating disorder. I found it rare that people make fun like that of people who are just naturally skinny or healthy. It's most often used to alert you that you've got a problem.



I beg to differ on this, for me... I absolutely was NOT anorexic/bulemic. I even prevented myself from throwing up (like when I was sick etc..) for 7 yrs partially because I didn't want people thinking I was purging.

I also did NOT starve myself...I was quite the opposite. I could put away 2 LARGE plates of spaghetti with bread, no problem. I can't do that anymore, 1 big plate is enough, however, because I metabolise/digest food so fast, I can be bulging with "fullness" and 1 hour after I stop eating, I'm hungry again.

Also, I WAS sexually unattractive to guys. they didn't want to date the skinny flat girl with NO shape...they didn't want to date someone who's body looked liked theirs! I sat by as my best friend with her d cups and curves get any guy she wanted...I got the scraps.

Fawn
11-28-2006, 12:01 PM
I deffinately was not anorexic or bulemic. I ate all the time trying to put on pounds. one doc told me to eat peanut butter everyday, so I started putting it on everything, but it barly worked. And, yeah, guys might like a healthy thin girl, but guys do not like a girl that looks like she has an eating disorder even if she really doesn't. There is a difference between naturally thin and pleasant looking, and so thin that people turn stare at you walking and quickly turn their eyes away when you notice, and they start wispering to their friends and pointing. That happened a lot. And I don't think us thin girls are trying to say we got ridiculed more that bigger girls, I think what we're trying to say is that it was no less though, and we have feelings too.

Bridgette
11-28-2006, 03:09 PM
Hehe. I remember being SO excited when I could FINALLY wear size 1 junior jeans instead of size 12 or 14 in little girls. They didn't have 0s back then, and even a size 1 was hard to find. I had to go to special jeans stores to get them because they just didn't have them in the department stores yet. At least not where I was. This was my senior year in high school. NO other girl in the whole school was as small as me - even the freshman girls. Everyone made fun of me. I think it's great that they're finally making clothes to fit all sizes of women - both larger and smaller. It fucking sucks to have to feel that embarrassed just with the simple act of buying clothes.

In 7th grade I got "trash canned" because I was so small. That was something normally only done to boys, but these assholes did it to me, just to be mean to the little skinny girl. I never heard of another GIRL in school getting trash canned.

I don't buy that people name-calling the skinny girls are doing it out of pure concern. Please. Especially considering my own experiences and those described by others here - knowing how MEAN, resentful and plain disgusted the people looked when they called me beanpole etc. Come on. It's not concern. It's disgust. Just like when assholes call fat people names out of disgust.

I did NOT have an eating disorder and NO I'm not bullshitting. I ate like a fucking pig and I DID NOT puke it up. I resent the implication that I or anyone else here might be lying about this >:( Part of the reason I was so skinny for so long is I just didn't develop physically until much later than most. I didn't get any boobs or fill out at all like the other girls did, until much later. Likewise, I didn't get my baby teeth until later than normal, or start losing baby teeth until much later than normal, or get the growth spurt until later than normal, etc. I just didn't develop at the ages most people do. I couldn't fucking help it and I, to this day, resent the assholes who made fun of me for it.

Now, I get paranoid and freaked out about the possibility of getting too skinny again. Even with age, my metabolism is still high - higher than the average 33yo apparently - and so I purposely eat to keep a little weight. I quit working out because all it did was make me more fucking skinny. I feel like I look disgusting if I drop below a certain weight. People reinforce that by telling me I look better with a little weight, and calling me skinny names if I lose a little. A really good regular once told me I was "having a skinny day" during the time I was working out and had lost a little weight, and I reckon he could see how horrified I was, because he immediately started apologizing profusely. Yeah, it doesn't seem that bad, but for someone who's spent her life trying NOT to be fucking skinny, it's bad. Just as bad as if it were the other way around. Maybe it's a little bit of body dysmorphic - since when is such a condition limited to only fat people???

I cannot believe how people jump so readily to belittle the hurt a skinny girl feels.

The things that Dottie Rebel and Fawn have said in their latest posts, are the points I've also been trying to make throughout this thread. The skinny girls' feelings get hurt too, and the mere fact that they're skinny does NOT diminish that or make them any less deserving of sympathy or understanding.

Jenny
11-28-2006, 03:19 PM
Nobody is arguing that thin girls don't have feelings. Nobody is arguing that it is okay to be rude to thin girls. What we are saying is simply that, in terms of "bad names" to call someone, some are worse than others. This is perfectly obvious. Also note - we are not children being made fun of in locker rooms. We are adults and we know perfectly well the different currency between "skinny" and "fat".

In school I was made fun of for being smart; it would be pretty fucking stupid and arrogant of me to run around saying that the abuse suffered from mentally challenged kids for being "stupid" was no worse. Again - I know the difference in currency and value of "smart" and "stupid". And all y'all know the different currency between skinny the fat; the rest of this is just bullshit posturing.

sc0101
11-28-2006, 04:51 PM
Nobody is arguing that thin girls don't have feelings. Nobody is arguing that it is okay to be rude to thin girls. What we are saying is simply that, in terms of "bad names" to call someone, some are worse than others. This is perfectly obvious. Also note - we are not children being made fun of in locker rooms. We are adults and we know perfectly well the different currency between "skinny" and "fat".


No, no name is universally worse than another. It's purely up to the person being call ed it. You can't say one word is always worse than another. Now that would be naive.

Jenny
11-28-2006, 06:18 PM
^^^
That's absurd. "bitch" is worse than "not nice".
Calling someone a "cunt" is acknowledged (in North America) as a worse name than "Bitch."
Racial slurs are worse than other kinds of names. I'm not talking about circumstances that are highly personal. I'm talking about social currency. So perhaps no name is "universally" worse - but within the confines of our social culture CERTAINLY some names are worse.

leilanicandy
11-28-2006, 06:23 PM
This is why this abuse that is targeting skinny and fat women. All thats inbetween needs to stop! We need to stop being at war with our bodies. Beauty really comes in all differant shape and sizes. If we has women focus on impowering women to become self confident. Stop letting the media and men define what is the most popular eye of beauty. I think we will be better off!

sc0101
11-28-2006, 06:24 PM
Again, depends on the person. I'm not going to base on whether or not a name is worse on what 1/4 of the population or how ever many have actually voiced what they thought was worse. It's all in the eye of the beholder. And where are you basing your standards? I've never seen any publications on whether or not bitch or cunt is worse. Again, even your standpoint is from a high person opinion.

Bridgette
11-29-2006, 02:40 AM
Bullshit posturing??? Are you fucking KIDDING me??? :mad:

Yeah, let some assholes stuff YOU in a damn trash can at school because you're small and see how it affects YOU.

I never got made fun of for being smart. I did get made fun of for being nerdy. I never heard of anyone getting made fun of for being smart.

Yeah. Skinny girls get to endure being made fun of for being skinny, get accused of being anorexic or bulemic (whether it has any basis or not), AND when their feelings get hurt, they're told that those feelings are petty BECAUSE they're skinny. Oh and that they're bullshit posturing. Nice.

mollyzmoon
11-29-2006, 06:04 AM
Ok, I'm not trying to say that feeling hurtful is ever OK...I was locked in locker once when I was thin....don't think it was because I was thin, but if I wasn't, i wouldn't have fit.

I'm just, honestly...I know the world doesn't share my body psychosis...I never had an actual ED. I didn't puke or extreme diet or anything...thin as I got, I had nothing on most of you. I've got a natural predilection for fatness in my genes. My lowest BMI was maybe 16.5

What I am saying is: as a thin person, the world media implicitly supports you. I am genuinely curious: does having the physique of a model or celebrity offer no consolation at all? Like a glamourized Keira Knightley, 100 pounds soaking wet and my height, smiling shiny and bony from the pages? She is pretty, she is undeniably quite thin...and others like her. Please, i am curious: does seeing these examples offer no consolation at all??

Isn't that where it all comes from to begin with? Dove consoling 'real women' who don't happen to look like 97% of celebrities? Has anyone seen Kate Winslet on magazines? She, the cultural icon of celebrity "I'm heavier and it's ok"-ness? She's like a size four. If you do happen to be that 10% of adult women who are naturally very slender, the idea is you don't have to be consoled from not looking like a real woman because all the 'fake' women look like you. In a GOOD way. Those women on magazines are obviously real people. They just have bodies held to what Dove would like average women to realize is a very high standard for the 90% of people who's weights are average or higher. So really, that Ellen Pompeo so loved by TV networks? Ally McBeal before her. Portia de Rossi who went down to 80 pounds when she was on that show...(she's my height too).

I accept that you were mocked as teenagers, as we many of us were for various reasons. But now, as adults, the pain can be there, but honestly, the celebrity thing cannot be ignored can it? What impact does that have on hurt feelings over thinness today? Out of curiosity/

Euphoria
11-29-2006, 06:53 AM
Well, if bigger women are REAL ones, logically thinner are DREAM women. SO what do you prefer, ladies?;)

Jenny
11-29-2006, 06:57 AM
Bullshit posturing??? Are you fucking KIDDING me??? :mad:

Yeah, let some assholes stuff YOU in a damn trash can at school because you're small and see how it affects YOU.
Oh for crying out loud. I'm sorry people were mean to you. I was saying that you know damn well and for damn sure that it better in this society to be skinny than fat - to put it incredibly simplistically. To claim otherwise because you were made fun of in school is the bullshit posturing part. My comparison was being made fun of because I was smart. It would seem pretty stupid for me to run around NOW saying that makes being called "smart" and being called "stupid" equally bad.


Yeah. Skinny girls get to endure being made fun of for being skinny, get accused of being anorexic or bulemic (whether it has any basis or not), AND when their feelings get hurt, they're told that those feelings are petty BECAUSE they're skinny. Oh and that they're bullshit posturing. Nice.In school everyone gets made fun of for something. And yes, some of those things are worse than others, and have more social revulsion than others (making fun of the mentally challenged kids for being mentally challenged, for example, is meaner than making fun of you for being nerdy not because your feelings are less important but because of what it means to mentally challenged in our society versus what it means to be nerdy). If I may point out that we are not in school any more. We are all ostensibly adults and should be able to achieve a little distance. And, honestly, I've read a lot of things about fat people from you. People in your school would have had to be pretty creative to top it.

Further if I may point out - the Heartless Bitches rant? One of the things she says is that she would support an attack on the media construction of femininity. So I suspect she is on board with the Dove commercial.

xxambyrrxx
11-29-2006, 07:09 AM
I just don't like the wording...saying that if you are overweight, you are a real woman, is saying that if you are not overweight, or god forbid, underweight, you aren't a real woman.


To me this seems like you're assuming too much. They aren't saying "Fat is the new REAL" but its more of a "Hey now you can join the club too" message.

I think that being a REAL woman has more to do with a mindset/attitude than what your body looks like or the clothes you're wearing. Being REAL is all about accepting who you are and loving yourself and having confidence and feeling sexy no matter what size you are.

I agree with Emily's posts that the ad isn't trying to say "Don't worry those skinny girls are REAL like you are" but rather showing that they too can ooze sexiness and confidence just the way they are, and they can wear trendy clothes and feel good.

What is REAL anyway? Obviously all women are real women. This whole being REAL thing is just a buzzword that is popular in advertising right now because it means something completely different to everyone, making the ads more effective.

Laylas
11-30-2006, 04:00 AM
^^^^

Amen, sister.

Boo to Dove for making anyone with a uterus question whether they are a "real" woman or not :wife:

jaizaine
11-30-2006, 04:08 AM
this seems to be how it goes:

skinny beating - politically correct. its ok to put down skinny women coz we apparently have it all.

larger women - policitically incorrect to say anything about their weight.

I agree its very annoying.
it personally has never bothered me whether a woman is large, small, in between i think women are attractive coz we are woman and there is a market for every type of body but it does shit me as a skinny woman when we are put down like that.

tampadancer
12-01-2006, 03:27 AM
I love how plus sized clothing is referred to as "women's" sizes, while normal, healthy sized women are "misses" (which has a "junior" or "unmarried" implication)

Or even better, using the term "healthy" or "curvaceous" to describe overweight women. Being obese is NOT healthy OR curvaceous, its fat and unattractive.

sorry.. my two cents. I'm just tired of this lazy society of sloths who have trained themselves to rationalize this way.

Bridgette
12-01-2006, 04:01 AM
Amen tampadancer.

Molly, NO it doesn't make me feel better or special or cool that the fashion industry glorifies skinniness. Honestly, I look at most of those girls and think "pretty", but if *I* weigh that little (or even close), I think "disgusting". That's the issue for me. How I see myself, as a result of all the crap I heard when I was younger (and still do, though not NEARLY as much), and how I am predisposed to internalize it. Everyone's different though. Some people, for whatever reason, never get bothered by that kinda thing, but get all bent out of shape if they think they've gained an ounce. My whole point here has always been that, despite the bullshit in the media and what a majority of women say (the 60% who are overweight), there IS another side to this and it's no less negative for those who have to deal with it. People who don't suffer the same way can disbelieve and say it's bullshit or posturing or whatever all they want. It doesn't change anything.

Yeah Jenny, the crap we put up with in our formative years NEVER affects us in adulthood. WTFever.

Jenny
12-01-2006, 05:29 AM
A People who don't suffer the same way can disbelieve and say it's bullshit or posturing or whatever all they want. It doesn't change anything.
Again, what I said was that you are perfectly aware, as a rational adult, that it is considered better and more attractive to be thin than fat. Denying that obvious reality is the posturing part.


Yeah Jenny, the crap we put up with in our formative years NEVER affects us in adulthood. WTFever.
Okay. Sorry. Being made fun of as kids (which is an experience saved for a select few I'm sure. I bet most people were never made fun of for ANYTHING) should forever delegate us to being irrationally childish about given topics. Seriously. Next time people bring up how difficult it is to be mentally disabled or illiterate I'll throw a fit and declare that it is JUST AS HARD to be literate and intelligent when you're in junior high, and therefore as an functioning adult.

sassysummer
12-01-2006, 09:31 AM
Again, what I said was that you are perfectly aware, as a rational adult, that it is considered better and more attractive to be thin than fat. Denying that obvious reality is the posturing part.




ok, but we're not talking just "thin"...we're talking EXTREMELY thin. I don't know of anyone that has looked at calista flockhart or laura flynn boyl and said "oh wow, she looks sooo pretty and thin" they say "omg, she anorexic! Look how horrible she looks! You can see every bone". people just assuming they are anorexic and the media blasting stories about it..cause, ya know there is just NO WAY that anyone could ever be that thin naturally. ::) unfortunatly, some people just ARE very very thin.....naturally

Jenny
12-01-2006, 10:02 AM
ok, but we're not talking just "thin"...we're talking EXTREMELY thin. I don't know of anyone that has looked at calista flockhart or laura flynn boyl and said "oh wow, she looks sooo pretty and thin" they say "omg, she anorexic! Look how horrible she looks! You can see every bone". people just assuming they are anorexic and the media blasting stories about it..cause, ya know there is just NO WAY that anyone could ever be that thin naturally. ::) unfortunatly, some people just ARE very very thin.....naturally
Perhaps some few adults are naturally thin like Callista Flockhart and Lara Flynn Boyle; note that Callista Flockhart and Lara Flynn Boyle WERE in the dangerous stages of anorexia and not "naturally" that thin (I don't know what "natural" mean in this context. Whenever anyone mentions being "naturally" fat, big, chubby, large, voluptuous people on this board freak out. For that matter, note TampaDancer's comment on "fatness" above. Doesn't sound so naturalized. She makes "fat" sound like a pretty deviant state). However there is NO woman that thin who would not be seriously examined by her physician. It IS, in fact, abnormal, as I'm sure you are aware. There are much more serious and immediate health effects from being that thin than being fat, and considering the normal excuses made by anorexics, "No, really, I eat like a horse" is not particularly compelling. If it is, in fact, true, then she should be examined for parasites, digestive issues, diabetes etc.

And yes - Callista Flockhart was not told "gain weight or lose your job" as she would have been had she gained a similar amount of weight. There was a tone of concern (albeit gossipy, as all celebrity "news" is), and much of the commentary of how she was TOO thin was related to that - like "Anorexia is bad because it makes you unattractive in addition to all the other bad things".

Interestingly, I wrote a comment as an undergrad defending pro-ana websites. My commentary centred around the approach to anorexia, and how most medical and social approaches treated it like female irrationality and ignorance, when it was neither. That anorexics and pro-ana people were a) perfectly aware of the connection between calories and energy and living and b) were NOT wrong about appearance oriented issues. That most anorexics (except those in the extremely dangerous bottom stages) in fact seemed to have a fairly good idea of what they looked like. There was this outcry over "triggers"; the outcry completely neglected that the "triggers" they were complaining about were only objectionable in the context of a pro-ana site. Most of the them were ADVERTISEMENTS that could be readily seen on any billboard. That is an aside - but really, thin is valued in society. The fact that you were made fun of ostensibly for being thin is not the point. That's like saying someone was made fun of for being pretty (people may have assumed that the prettiest girl in class was a snob, or example or a slut because she was pretty); it doesn't change the fact that being called "pretty" is a compliment and being called "ugly" is not.