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aussiepunkshocker
12-25-2006, 09:19 PM
If that ever gets out, that could be very damaging for him. With no offense meant to you, there are much more worthy immagration cases he could be supporting. You may not be aware of them since you havent been here very long. Just my 2 cents - unless he told you that its ok to shout it from the rooftops, maybe dont. Glad its working out for you though (-:


[quote=lilithmorrigan;921592]

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN QUEENSLAND AGREED TO SPONSOR MY CITIZENSHIP... Why? Because my partner's mum works at the same charity. THAT'S IT! Because he's a (gasp!) honest politician! He really just wants to help me and see me become a citizen (of course, he also has this huge 'immigration' rights thing he wants to see happen)....


quote]

aussiepunkshocker
12-25-2006, 09:28 PM
I agree - and believe me I would much rather live in England if I could. Australia isnt perfect and unfortunatly some things have got worse and probably wont be fixed soon. However when I compare those things to other places I realise that this country really does have a lot of bonuses.

And Wild Swans is a great book. Incidently Ive read every book available in Australia written by a Chinese author ;D




On that topic: Wild Swans: three daughters of china by Jung Chang
VERY VERY HIGHLY RECOMMEND !!!! It opened my eyes up dramatically. They really truely did believe they were the best and even this day that belief still exists to a certain extent even tho' Mao is long dead and things have changed (somewhat).


I have visited America in my life and all I can say is I love calling Australia home. We are FAR from a perfect nation what with the riots/violence in Cornulla (sp?) this year and the constant what seems to be ill treatment and lack of care for our own native people.

The aboriginal issue is a sore spot for everyone. I feel that it will never be resolved adequately as both sides aren't willing to do what they need to REALLY do to improve the situation (as such)....

............and Morrigan (LM) was lucky. Another dancer up in Darwin recently shared with me how much of a bitch it has been for her to get citizenship in this country ... and she has also had to marry her then boyfriend now husband to get it.... and still has to leave the country to re-new her visa (or something).

Bridgette
12-26-2006, 08:27 AM
Oh god don't I agree... There was a huge study done recently and America was #16 in the top countries to live (based on culture, cost of living, crime, etc.) and Australia was 3. Fuck, I jumped 13 places in ONE MOVE! France and Amsterdam, I believe, rated 2 and 1, respectively.

Cost of living here... you can live off a salary working at MCDONALDS and live BY YOURSELF! (of course it would be tight.. but you CAN do it!)

Healthcare.. my THREE YEAR birth control AND TWO doctors visits totalled a whopping $34... $24.50 being the birth control itself! And that's only because I want to a private doctor... oops!

When I didn't have healthcare? My emergency visit plus x-rays TOTALLED $200... WITHOUT healthcare.

Brisbane is worried because it has OMG Three HUNDRED homeless people!!! The horror!!

And... omg.. it takes TWENTY minutes to travel across the entire city (at 5pm!)... our streets are clogged! And they're FIXING IT! How long does it take to get across LA in a car? Someone tell me? At 5pm?

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN QUEENSLAND AGREED TO SPONSOR MY CITIZENSHIP... Why? Because my partner's mum works at the same charity. THAT'S IT! Because he's a (gasp!) honest politician! He really just wants to help me and see me become a citizen (of course, he also has this huge 'immigration' rights thing he wants to see happen)....


Gee... and it's now on month 3 for me just to get my FINGERPRINTS back from America.

... I wonder who I like best.Shit, I'm moving to Australia!!



But LM, regarding your comment about "find a company that will guaranteee a foreigner a job for 3 years" -- IT companies in the US do it ALL the time. They've been sponsoring Indians to work here for years, because they get what basically amounts to an indentured servant for 3 years at half the cost of hiring a qualified american. Fuckers.

LapOfLuxury
12-26-2006, 10:57 PM
Yep, I pointed that out too. Funny stuff.

Yes, I now see that you did. Sorry for the redundancy.:ashamed:

Tara Nicole
12-27-2006, 01:04 AM
I'm already paying through the nose for public education. My property tax bill is amazing! I put over $300 a month into escrow just for property tax, alone!

We are considering home schooling, but can't quite figure out how to make it work around our work schedules, yet. That and we are a little concerned about social isolation from his peers as we don't attend church or any other kind of family type organization.

One suggestion that might help with the peer group issue is a program similar to one that is done at my gym. It's a group class for home school kids so they can get their P.E. credits. I'm sure it's great for to help combat the isolation problem and teaching kids to negotiate social skills ect.

If you are interested in learning more PM me and I will give you a link to the gym's website with contact info. They have sister clubs in various places around the U.S and if nothing else you might be able to learn more about this type of alternative in general.

Also because I was dancing with Boston Ballet at the time and needed to work at the studio all day I did my last two years worth of high school via the mail with a school out of IL. called The American School here is their link :



I can't give any first hand references to any of their math or science classes b/c I completed those credits while still attending Virginia School of the Arts but I found the history, government and lit courses to be just fine- and that was even without a parent or teacher to help me along with the course work.

Hope that helps some!

Tara Nicole
12-27-2006, 01:18 AM
Any suggestions on how we can curb our appetite for foriegn oil?

umm, yeah... start using alt. energy made right here the U.S.A! But first we gotta get the NeoCons on board... which is pretty tough stuff since many of them personally profit from foriegn oil and no bid war contracts.

Ofcourse if you are seriously interested in doing your own personal part you could start with buying a hybrid car or use public transport, install solar for your hot water heater and so on and so on.... even if you can't do any of those things for whatever reason you could always invest in an alt. energy company such as ADM for example.

PookaShell
12-27-2006, 03:59 AM
*glances at the american flag sticker on her cell phone* *sighs*

Lola Rose
12-27-2006, 02:15 PM
paris, this is a great piece. I actually made me cry. (well, put into perspective, it's not that hard to do.... but still)

Paris
12-27-2006, 03:19 PM
umm, yeah... start using alt. energy made right here the U.S.A! But first we gotta get the NeoCons on board... which is pretty tough stuff since many of them personally profit from foriegn oil and no bid war contracts.

Ofcourse if you are seriously interested in doing your own personal part you could start with buying a hybrid car or use public transport, install solar for your hot water heater and so on and so on.... even if you can't do any of those things for whatever reason you could always invest in an alt. energy company such as ADM for example.

Yep, already doing that. I don't own a hybrid, but I do own the next best thing... A toyota corolla. Great milage (about 40mpg on the highway) and very low emmissions. Hybrids don't make sense for me because almost all of my driving is on the interstate, and hybrids just don't get good mpg on the highway.

I own stock in a bio-diesle company, I light my home with energy efficient light bulbs. The home I live in and the home I'm building have the highest possible insulation ratings, energy efficent appliances, low-e windows, energy efficent heat pumps, and I'm going to install a tankless waterheater in the new home and upgrade my tank water heater to tankless at the same time. I livein Eugene Oregon and we have maybe 90 sunny days a year, so solar isn't a real viable option for me. However, that region get's the majority of it's electricty from hydo-electic plants. Basically a clean energy source.

I'm also shopping for a new work truck, and you can bet that it will be bio-diesle. Bio-diesle is easily available in my area and is actully cheaper than petrol deisle.

*As a side note, I already acknowleged that the list of free countries is in alaphbetical order. I lifted it from the UN's website. You've got to be kidding if you think of the millions of people that the US has incarcerated has nothing to do with the erosion of our personal freedoms. Isn't it just a little bit incredible that strippers are getting arrested for giving lap dances? And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Hello_Kitty27
12-27-2006, 07:06 PM
Ya know, I'm not completely schooled on this subject, but am I the only one that sees something wrong with the immigration picture here?? .... Australia has far less of a population issue than the US, yet they are apparently very strict with immigration. I wonder why we are so lax with our immigration laws. And when I speak out amongst my friends and family that we SHOULD be stricter and get better laws in place, (most of) my friends and family are appalled at me. Strange.

Sorry ...I don't mean to change the subject, but it's just so bizarre. I'll never understand why we do the things we do around here.

smartcookie
12-27-2006, 08:37 PM
In Europe and Canada, the government imposes price controls on pharmaceuticals and rations them. End of story. In the US, there are no price controls and no rationing

And yet healthcare is still much cheaper in countries with a higher cost of living even for a a foreigner who doesn't participate in a national health plan.

Why are we the only developed country with 40 million uninsured? Why are so many people in this reach country unable to afford the medication and treatment that they need?

Something is clearly broken and it needs to be fixed.

Tara Nicole
12-27-2006, 11:53 PM
Yep, already doing that. I don't own a hybrid, but I do own the next best thing... A toyota corolla. Great milage (about 40mpg on the highway) and very low emmissions. Hybrids don't make sense for me because almost all of my driving is on the interstate, and hybrids just don't get good mpg on the highway.

I own stock in a bio-diesle company, I light my home with energy efficient light bulbs. The home I live in and the home I'm building have the highest possible insulation ratings, energy efficent appliances, low-e windows, energy efficent heat pumps, and I'm going to install a tankless waterheater in the new home and upgrade my tank water heater to tankless at the same time. I livein Eugene Oregon and we have maybe 90 sunny days a year, so solar isn't a real viable option for me. However, that region get's the majority of it's electricty from hydo-electic plants. Basically a clean energy source.

I'm also shopping for a new work truck, and you can bet that it will be bio-diesle. Bio-diesle is easily available in my area and is actully cheaper than petrol deisle.



RIGHT ON !!!! Good for you :thumbsup:




Why are we the only developed country with 40 million uninsured? Why are so many people in this reach country unable to afford the medication and treatment that they need?


I think the answer to that question is greed.... too many people in/with power are making massive profits by keeping healthcare so expensive.

TheSexKitten
12-28-2006, 07:10 PM
Ya know, I'm not completely schooled on this subject, but am I the only one that sees something wrong with the immigration picture here?? .... Australia has far less of a population issue than the US, yet they are apparently very strict with immigration. I wonder why we are so lax with our immigration laws. And when I speak out amongst my friends and family that we SHOULD be stricter and get better laws in place, (most of) my friends and family are appalled at me. Strange.

Sorry ...I don't mean to change the subject, but it's just so bizarre. I'll never understand why we do the things we do around here.

Yeah. It's actually relatively easy to move into the US. Also, when foreigners become US citizens, they get to retain the citizenship of their original country, but Americans moving outward have to relinquish US citizenship. (if i'm not mistaken)

Yekhefah
12-28-2006, 07:40 PM
^^^ That depends on the country. The USA has dual-citizenship agreements with some countries, including Australia, so it's possible to be an American and a dual citizen.

Lysondra
12-29-2006, 05:20 PM
So a business can sponser a perm residency? Why couldn't your boyfriend's parents sponser you then lilith? Don't they own a business?

Well, I am used to living here in the US. But my heart is European. I would like to have homes on both sides of the pond.

Because they couldn't promise me 30k a year. Michael makes about 20k a year off them and is getting a raise soon... I'd have to work up to that.

But nice try in trying to catch me in some sort of supposed 'lie'. You like to do that.

Lysondra
12-29-2006, 05:22 PM
Yeah. It's actually relatively easy to move into the US. Also, when foreigners become US citizens, they get to retain the citizenship of their original country, but Americans moving outward have to relinquish US citizenship. (if i'm not mistaken)

You are mistaken... if you reliquish US citizenship you are not even allowed back into the country AT ALL after you've done so... Japan requires it... but most countries don't. It depends on the country you're moving TO... not from.

Lysondra
12-29-2006, 05:22 PM
Shit, I'm moving to Australia!!



But LM, regarding your comment about "find a company that will guaranteee a foreigner a job for 3 years" -- IT companies in the US do it ALL the time. They've been sponsoring Indians to work here for years, because they get what basically amounts to an indentured servant for 3 years at half the cost of hiring a qualified american. Fuckers.

Well, I did say 'and a 30k salary'... lol....

Lysondra
12-29-2006, 05:24 PM
If that ever gets out, that could be very damaging for him. With no offense meant to you, there are much more worthy immagration cases he could be supporting. You may not be aware of them since you havent been here very long. Just my 2 cents - unless he told you that its ok to shout it from the rooftops, maybe dont. Glad its working out for you though (-:


I probably shouldn't have mentioned it here, really... I mention it in more PC places. He did agree to take my case though... but it's not very nice of you to say I'm 'not worthy' of it. :( He knows I love Michael dearly, he's doing it for my love... not my career... he actually cares... but yeah, I shouldn't be mentioning it on SW.

Hello_Kitty27
12-29-2006, 05:26 PM
Wait LM, am I reading this right....are you saying Japan requires you to relinquish your US citizenship if you move there? I know someone that moved there to teach English....he's been there for 10 years. He comes back to see his family once in a while, but I never asked any personal questions about his citizenship.

Lysondra
12-29-2006, 05:28 PM
Wait LM, am I reading this right....are you saying Japan requires you to relinquish your US citizenship if you move there? I know someone that moved there to teach English....he's been there for 10 years. He comes back to see his family once in a while, but I never asked any personal questions about his citizenship.

I might be wrong, but last I checked, that was the case. It's very hard for an American to get citizenship in Japan anyway, so I doubt he even has it. You can easily stay 10 years with no cit. if you're sponsored.

Hello_Kitty27
12-29-2006, 05:50 PM
That's crazy....I wonder what his deal is. I used to want to move there for work, but I changed my field, so I never really looked into it.

I do know that they are discussing making it easier for foreigners to move there and acclimate (sp?) themselves. There's concern of their extremely low birth rate. I've seen that come up on Japanese language sites I've stumbled around on. Hmmm....interesting.

I love how OPEN our freakin borders are in the US compared to so many other developed countries. Ugh....

Katrine
12-29-2006, 09:09 PM
Because they couldn't promise me 30k a year. Michael makes about 20k a year off them and is getting a raise soon... I'd have to work up to that.

But nice try in trying to catch me in some sort of supposed 'lie'. You like to do that.

I honestly wasn't baiting you lilith. I was just curious, and hadn't thought that they could help you. I don't think you are lying about your situation.

Lysondra
12-29-2006, 09:14 PM
I honestly wasn't baiting you lilith. I was just curious, and hadn't thought that they could help you. I don't think you are lying about your situation.

Ah, I just must be overly suspicious. Sorry... yeah no, they couldn't guarantee the income.. :(

aussiepunkshocker
12-30-2006, 02:59 AM
I didnt say you wernt worthy of his support, I said there are much more worthy immagration causes he could have got involved with and hasnt. That is true and doesnt mean Im being mean to you. It means that I think as a polititician he sucks and hasnt got his priorities in order at all - and that maybe other members of the public would think as I do if they knew about it. I was simply trying to make an example of why not to go around publicly telling people about this, just in case. More worthy causes IMO are families that have been split up because not all members are allowed to stay here and people sent back to countries where they risk being jailed or killed and so on... It seemed like you were probably going to be able to stay anyway. I dont begrudge that you are able to stay, didnt I say I was glad things are working out? :)



I probably shouldn't have mentioned it here, really... I mention it in more PC places. He did agree to take my case though... but it's not very nice of you to say I'm 'not worthy' of it. :( He knows I love Michael dearly, he's doing it for my love... not my career... he actually cares... but yeah, I shouldn't be mentioning it on SW.

Lysondra
12-30-2006, 04:56 PM
I didnt say you wernt worthy of his support, I said there are much more worthy immagration causes he could have got involved with and hasnt. That is true and doesnt mean Im being mean to you. It means that I think as a polititician he sucks and hasnt got his priorities in order at all - and that maybe other members of the public would think as I do if they knew about it. I was simply trying to make an example of why not to go around publicly telling people about this, just in case. More worthy causes IMO are families that have been split up because not all members are allowed to stay here and people sent back to countries where they risk being jailed or killed and so on... It seemed like you were probably going to be able to stay anyway. I dont begrudge that you are able to stay, didnt I say I was glad things are working out? :)

No, it didn't seem that way. I was told to 'prepare for the worst' two months ago and to expect a letter. I never got that letter and I spent two months scrimping and saving so I could go back to America... I wasn't even sure if I'd be allowed to come back.

And he IS doing other family things and immigration cases... not just mine. Mine is a favour to his friend, Michael's mum... because I mean a lot to her and her son.

Nautilus
12-31-2006, 06:21 PM
Japan gives out working visas and working holiday visas relatively freely, but is very tight on handing out citizenship. The english teacher probably had a company like Nova sponsor him on a renewable working visa.

Nautilus
12-31-2006, 06:22 PM
oh, and GO AUSTRALIA!! (weeeeeeeeee!)

Cally
01-01-2007, 05:45 PM
The more I read this post the happier I am that I live in Canada.

Free health care? check
Friendly people? check
Low crime rates? check
Help for homeless/needy? check
Great education? check

The list goes on. Im sorry but I could NEVER live in a country where I have to worry about my trigger happy leader blowing up yet another country because he didnt like the way they looked at him ::) The constant threat of my leader pissing off someone and having them blow my brains out AND THEN at his order I have to run off to fight the battle he got himself into. I think not. Yea I know there is so much more to it but yea no thank you.

I love Canada... I can get drunk and see pussy at the same time. I dont have my life taken away because I fucked up on my taxes a little bit. Yea I may have to pay higher taxes then the US but at least I know if I get hurt I can go to the hospital and not be turned away because I didnt come from the right class of living.

In no way am I saying Canada is perfect though... I mean we have dirty cities(dont get me started on Toronto or Montreal) due to the fact prostitution is legal in Canada our strip clubs are rampent with extras. Oh and we still have gang violence but its not nearly as crazy here as it is in the US. But hey at least living in Canada its not evil to show a nipple lol.. oh and all the bible thumpers seem to stick to one area of the country... you know that province no one ever mentions? Saskatchewan... lol... I love Canada :biggrin:

Jenny
01-01-2007, 06:53 PM
And yet when I express dissatisfaction with this country, my patriotic family reminds me that the USA is "the best country in the world!" No amount of discussion and reasoning will dissuade them. They really believe we are the only truly free country and that we have the world's best healthcare. Sad, really.

I wanna leave. I REALLY wanna leave. I hate it here.
Well, you do, in a way. The quality of care available in the United States is, probably by far, the best in the world. And, interestingly, the American government spend more than pretty much anyone else per capita on medicare and medicaid. So what is the problem? Because the care itself is overpriced - which does relate back to the extremely high quality of care available. Just one way to look at it.

Jenny
01-01-2007, 06:58 PM
Why? It's not that much of a mystery.

In Europe and Canada, the government imposes price controls on pharmaceuticals and rations them. End of story. In the US, there are no price controls and no rationing, unless you're tied to the portion of American health care that's socialized (Medicare/Medicaid), in which case the government imposes limits on price and availability. I can get any drug I want if I can pay the price. It's another example of six in one, half a dozen in the other.
Canada "rations" drugs? Are you sure?

Lysondra
01-01-2007, 08:52 PM
Well, you do, in a way. The quality of care available in the United States is, probably by far, the best in the world. And, interestingly, the American government spend more than pretty much anyone else per capita on medicare and medicaid. So what is the problem? Because the care itself is overpriced - which does relate back to the extremely high quality of care available. Just one way to look at it.

Ahahahahahahaha.... what?!

Katrine
01-01-2007, 08:56 PM
Well, you do, in a way. The quality of care available in the United States is, probably by far, the best in the world. And, interestingly, the American government spend more than pretty much anyone else per capita on medicare and medicaid. So what is the problem? Because the care itself is overpriced - which does relate back to the extremely high quality of care available. Just one way to look at it.

This is true. People fly into Houston from all over the world because of the Medical Center there. I've known families from Mexico City to Beirut to Beijing who were staying there while a loved one underwent chemo or major surgery.

BUT, its not cheap and all of the international people there for treatment are relatively wealthy.

Jenny
01-01-2007, 09:17 PM
Ahahahahahahaha.... what?!
They do; I don't think anyone contests that the top tier of health care in the states is pretty much the top tier in the world. The problem in the states is that nobody can afford the good health care, not that good health care isn't there.
And the US spends more money per capita on subsidized medicine than Canada, Australia, Britain, Israel, etc. They spend a lot. The problem is not with the dollars but what the dollars buy.

Education has more or less the same effect - I mean there are some of the best schools, although maybe not really any of THE best (does Harvard beat Oxford?) in the states - certainly a higher number of internationally excellent schools than any other country, but a small number of the population can avail themselves of them. But the number of them and the success does beg the question of whether the standard of excellence - or not the standard, but the breadth of the standard - could be maintained in an environment that was not socio-economically elitist. And then, of course, whether maintaining that standard for like 6 people is valuable compared to maintaining either a lower standard or a standard of smaller breadth for many/most people.

Lysondra
01-01-2007, 09:22 PM
They do; I don't think anyone contests that the top tier of health care in the states is pretty much the top tier in the world. The problem in the states is that nobody can afford the good health care, not that good health care isn't there.
And the US spends more money per capita on subsidized medicine than Canada, Australia, Britain, Israel, etc. They spend a lot. The problem is not with the dollars but what the dollars buy.

You said 'available'.. it's not available if you can't afford it (thus can't get it).

But, my partner's mum when she got surgery, had the top floor of a marble private hospital overlooking the river being watched by nurses every ten minutes that buzzed us in and helped her do anything she needed... gave her amazing care... and it cost nothing. Absolutely nothing.

I don't know if you've checked the 'top tier' of other countries in this case, either. This was middle-class health-care for here.

I'd rather spend 1 hour in a waiting room here for free than 12 hours to pay someone in America.

Yekhefah
01-01-2007, 09:32 PM
^^^ The care I got at the ER at a low-level public hospital in Australia was miles above the standard I have received anywhere in the USA. Seriously, MILES. My regular doctor's office was much better too. It sounds amazing to Americans, but doctors in Australia actually give a shit about your health! Bizarre, I know!

Lysondra
01-01-2007, 09:38 PM
^^^ The care I got at the ER at a low-level public hospital in Australia was miles above the standard I have received anywhere in the USA. Seriously, MILES. My regular doctor's office was much better too. It sounds amazing to Americans, but doctors in Australia actually give a shit about your health! Bizarre, I know!

Agreed! My doctor wasn't sure she put my birth control in correctly so she set up a FREE (would've cost $10 or so anyway, but still) ultrasound with a doctor nearby the same day to make sure it was really in there because she cared.

When I fell down a flight of stairs, the nurses didn't twist and turn my foot for x-rays (like they farking do in America)... they were calm and caring and when I cried they said they were sorry and asked if I needed help or hugs or if they should wait a few minutes on me for it to hurt less for the x-ray.

I have free massage therapy simply because of the field I work in. "Oh, you poor thing, you dance?! You must be in pain! Here, we'll help!"

...

What really got me was when the politicians cared.

And when the police gave me their private number after I was attacked in case I wanted someone to talk to (and weren't flirting with me, Michael was there!) after hours.

...
I've been to cities that never close down

From New York to Rome and old London Town

But I realise something I've always known,

I still call Australia home.

I'm always travelling - I love being free

And so I keep leaving the sun and the sea

But my heart lies waiting, over the foam

I still call Australia home.

All the sons and daughters, spinning 'round the world

Away from their family and friends

But as the world gets older, and colder

Its good to know where your journey ends.

And some day we'll all be together once more

When all the ships come back to the shore

And we'll realise something we've always known

We still call Australia home...

Jenny
01-01-2007, 10:21 PM
You said 'available'.. it's not available if you can't afford it (thus can't get it).

But, my partner's mum when she got surgery, had the top floor of a marble private hospital overlooking the river being watched by nurses every ten minutes that buzzed us in and helped her do anything she needed... gave her amazing care... and it cost nothing. Absolutely nothing.

I don't know if you've checked the 'top tier' of other countries in this case, either. This was middle-class health-care for here.

I'd rather spend 1 hour in a waiting room here for free than 12 hours to pay someone in America.
Honey, this seems a little silly. Expensive things can still be available and expensive. Lots of people can't afford cars or airline tickets. This doesn't mean that the cars and airline tickets aren't available, it means that they are expensive. And Australia and New Zealand are both facing huge criticism in the health industry, if I am not mistaken, for semi-privatizing their health care system. So paying for insurance is involved in Australia for most people to get that kind of health care.

And again - you're saying that the health care you can afford in Australia is better than the healthcare you can afford in the states. That has no impact on my point which is that if you have a lot of money you can buy better care in the states than you can in Australia, or most other countries. The exceptions would be, if I'm not mistaken, in experimental therapies that would probably have a locus in countries with IP laws and drug laws that suit them.

Lysondra
01-01-2007, 10:27 PM
Honey, this seems a little silly. Expensive things can still be available and expensive. Lots of people can't afford cars or airline tickets. This doesn't mean that the cars and airline tickets aren't available, it means that they are expensive. And Australia and New Zealand are both facing huge criticism in the health industry, if I am not mistaken, for semi-privatizing their health care system. So paying for insurance is involved in Australia for most people to get that kind of health care.

And again - you're saying that the health care you can afford in Australia is better than the healthcare you can afford in the states. That has no impact on my point which is that if you have a lot of money you can buy better care in the states than you can in Australia, or most other countries. The exceptions would be, if I'm not mistaken, in experimental therapies that would probably have a locus in countries with IP laws and drug laws that suit them.

It's semi-private, yes, but you can always go to the private hospitals for hardly any more. My x-rays were done without insurance at a private place for $200. Insurance for it to be costless is roughly twenty bucks a month, plus you get free physio, glasses, dental, acupuncture, acupressure...

... but I digress.

ArmySGT.
01-02-2007, 01:16 AM
I know, I'm being negative. Let's see what us American's are the best at:

1. We are the largest producer of greenhouse gases on the planet, and not by a small margin.
*According to figures from the U.N. Climate Change Secretariat, the top five sources of greenhouse gases were the United States, China, Russia, India and Japan.

The United States' per-capita greenhouse emissions were 24 tonnes based on 2004 data. China was 4 tonnes and India 2 tonnes based on 2000 data.

Here really I believe America is simply the most honest. What do the other countries especially China have to gain by honestly reporting the greenhouse gas outputs? Accurate reporting would bring about controls and restrictions that could undercut the economic growth.

2. We are #1 for prison population. That's right, we have more citizens incarcerated than any other nation on the planet. We are ahead of China, with the worlds largest population, and Russia with draconian laws. The USA has nearly 7 million people either in prison or on probation or parole. That is 2.3% of our population. Russia has .5% and China is even lower.

Is China really saying how many persons that are imprisoned? If the War on Drugs was dispensed with despite the economic benefits the prison population would go way down.

3. Consumerism. Yep, no surprise here, folks. Americans spend more money per capita than any other nation on earth! Also Americans don't save their money. Less than 10% of our population has any savings at all. A whole lot of us are two paychecks away from disaster.

Financial education boring, reality TV fun. People are coming around with more finacial and investing programs coming on. However those damn shows demand that you think. Bastards. Reality TV is blissful, drool on your self, zero brain stimulus fun. MORE SOMA! I would like to see the lies errrrr statistics that support this conclusion

4. Obesity. No surprise here, either. Americans are fatter than anyone else on the planet. Kill your microwave. A machine that should only be used to heat up a cup of water, pop pocorn, and defrost meats. Would Home economics as a required class for students as a priority over Art or a second language sit well with more folks?

5. Personal debt. As citizens we have more personal debt than any other nation. Americans not only spend more of their income than any other nation, we also owe a higher percentage than any other nation. As a people we are really good at spending money we ain't got!

I got bitten in the butt for not having debt. I have never had a credit card. I haven't made payments on anything since 1993. Without a credit history I could not get a home loan for $35,000

6. The US is number one in the world for military spending. Not only do we spend a lot on our military, but we spend more than the next TWELVE biggest spending nations on the planet combined. Those twelve are (in order of highest spending to lowest): China, Russia, Japan, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Saudi Arabia, India, South Korea, Israel, Australia, Brazil, Turkey and Canada.
*That is kind of surprising that we can't seem to get a grip on the Afghanistan/Iraq situation. We are fighting guerilla’s that are putting on their war on a shoestring budget. One suicide bomber and $18 worth of explosives are what we are up against, and those guys have managed to at least hit a stale mate against the USA and it's $450 billion military budget.
The spending bit is true. We recoup some of this cost since most of the countries are our best customers. Essentially we do the R&D then others buy from us. A win for the US really since we can then decide what to release out there. Now with the Shoestring insurgent budget versus the trillion dollar US defense budget. Two things one the US has a huge infrastructure to support, the R&D to fund, salaries to pay, and new equipment to purchase. Infrastructure and R&D eat up quite a bit. Why can these insurgents hold the Mighty US Forces at bay with so little money? Those pesky Geneva conventions and the Laws of War. If US forces could just disregard those restrictions; what advances we could make right? I mean next time Muqtada Al Sadr hides in a Mosque while his Mahdi Army militia fights we could just blow up the Mosque. When Snipers use a hospital as their hide to shoot American we could just use a cruise missile and flatten the Hospital. Kills the Sniper and prevents its use as a hide again.

7. Entertainment and media production. We, as a nation, produce more entertainment media than any other nation on the planet. We also profit the most off of those movies, television, music and other art media. India is really starting to produce some good movies, lately. But as of right now they can't hold a candle to US profits on entertainment.

Whoo-Hoo! Finally something positive! As Americans we keep the world entertained in varied and myriad ways, and we are the best at it. It is likely our world domination of arts and entertainment began with a cartoon mouse and a gentleman named Disney. Agreed ;D

I'm sure there are other fabulously postive things about being an American. I just can't come up with any that we are also the best at.

Generosity. The Billions in Aid spread around the World by the federal Govt and Philanthropists like Bill gates and Warren Buffet. Look at the Billionaires of Indonesia or the Saudi Royals. No comparison.



I love the United States of America

Paris
01-04-2007, 05:20 PM
^^Hey, we could combine the financial education together with the cooking/ nutrition education. Foods prepared from scratch are much less expensive than buying perpared food.

I, too, love America. I also think that being aware of our faults and short comings as a nation is essential for progress.

I understand your point about the military spending, but how is a non-nuke Trident missle designed for intercontential surgical strikes good for the American economy? Who would this technology be useful to? FedEx? We can't even use the thing because other nations have no ability to distinguish between the non-nuke trident and the one equipped with a nuclear war head, hence causing retalitory nuke strikes to be launched against us! There goes a couple of billion $$ down the drain!

If you have to scream from the rooftops "It's not a nuke! It's not a nuke!" that kind of defeats the purpose of the weapon as satelites can track it's destination and a cell phone call can have a target evcuated in plenty of time.::)

The non-nuke Trident missle seemed like a great idea in theory, but maybe, just maybe, someone should have thought about the "mistaken identy" problem before embarking on the research to develop such a weapon. I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of other worthy military uses for a couple of billion dollars, right now. Like fresh drinking water for the troops, perhaps?

Perhaps scientist do lie about the levels of CO2 in the air. But why? To make the US look bad? I think there are plenty of reasons that foriegn leaders can point to that would make us look like ogres. With our intelligence on foriegn affairs, one would think that the US would call out a nation that lied about it's greenhouse gas contributions. I mean, how hard is it to take an air sample from a friendly foriegn nation? The implication that China might lie about it's actual greenhouse gas contribution smacks of propaganda. Something like greenhouse gasses can be easily proved or disproved. The prison population is not as easy to prove or disprove, and we do have to take their word on it to a certain extent.

ArmySGT.
01-04-2007, 07:38 PM
Sorry for this cumbersome method Multi quote is refusing to work for me now.


^^Hey, we could combine the financial education together with the cooking/ nutrition education. Foods prepared from scratch are much less expensive than buying perpared food.

I think we would be doing kids a favor if we did. Art and Music are fine for expanding people and the benefits to education are well documented. Just the education part is kind of been pushed to the side in favor of babysitting.

I, too, love America. I also think that being aware of our faults and short comings as a nation is essential for progress.

I agree, usually the greatest lessons we learn are form our own mistakes. To do otherwise brings the Emperors New Clothes to mind.

I understand your point about the military spending, but how is a non-nuke Trident missle designed for intercontential surgical strikes good for the American economy? Who would this technology be useful to? FedEx? We can't even use the thing because other nations have no ability to distinguish between the non-nuke trident and the one equipped with a nuclear war head, hence causing retalitory nuke strikes to be launched against us! There goes a couple of billion $$ down the drain!

I think this one comes as the bargain basement price. I am sure it was also the least expensive option since everthing is there except the warhead itself

If you have to scream from the rooftops "It's not a nuke! It's not a nuke!" that kind of defeats the purpose of the weapon as satelites can track it's destination and a cell phone call can have a target evcuated in plenty of time.::)

One missile even one MIRV capable won't set off Armageddon, In My Not so Humble Opinion. USA and Russia each have an inventory of some where around 6000. Yes several countries (CIS and China)will know immediately if a missile is launched and all through be able to follow it through the boost phase. One of the benefits of putting this aboard a Ohio class Boomer is no way to know where the launch site is located. We have had the ability to hit a dog house in down town Moscow with a Nuclear missile launched from Montana for 25 years. Where everyone starts wondering is when boost phase is over, the MIRVs reach the top of the arc. *edit* The Arc is when countries decide "Is it for US?". Russia and China are watching the North sea, Arctic Ocean, Bering Strait, anywhere that looks like an ICBM will be going over the North Pole. Well China is also watching Guam too except that is well within the sphere of their own Missiles (30 or so). Launched from the Indian Ocean unlikely it would be noticed until it reach the top of the Arc and land based radars spot it. Anybodys guess except for those responsible for launching which way it is going to go and with a range of 6000 miles it is the whole Middle East. I could see a flurry of phone calls and a lot of scurrying. The kitchen light comes on and the cockroaches run for it. Hell we should do it just to shake shit up. Flatten a retired oil platform in the Persian Gulf. JK :). Seriously the COMMINT gathered could well be worth it as UN signatories get their indignation on

The non-nuke Trident missle seemed like a great idea in theory, but maybe, just maybe, someone should have thought about the "mistaken identy" problem before embarking on the research to develop such a weapon. I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of other worthy military uses for a couple of billion dollars, right now. Like fresh drinking water for the troops, perhaps?

Cheaper than the GOD Rod system, more effective than Cruise missiles (which are highly effective too), and I think highly intimidating for terrorists. Literally the Bolt from a clear blue sky. It is the lack of HUMINT that will make this less effective than it could be. The Pop Mech article lists this a 60 Million dollar project. Alot of money, yes, a drop in the bucket in most any countries defense budget.

Perhaps scientist do lie about the levels of CO2 in the air. But why? To make the US look bad? One possibility or more likely just to avoid economic sanctions. I think there are plenty of reasons that foriegn leaders can point to that would make us look like ogres. With our intelligence on foriegn affairs, one would think that the US would call out a nation that lied about it's greenhouse gas contributions. (except with China and the highly unbalanced trade deficit I mean, how hard is it to take an air sample from a friendly foriegn nation? Usually against the Law and considered Corporate EspionageThe implication that China might lie about it's actual greenhouse gas contribution smacks of propaganda. see previousSomething like greenhouse gasses can be easily proved or disproved. The prison population is not as easy to prove or disprove, and we do have to take their word on it to a certain extent.

Paris
01-05-2007, 07:36 PM
^^You're making me hot!;D

ArmySGT.
01-05-2007, 09:54 PM
:D Ow I just snorted MT Dew!

datchapin
01-16-2007, 09:38 PM
Stats can be made to represent whatever argument you want them to represent. Like that people from all over the world fly to Houston for the medical treatment here. That should be obvious when you consider that Houston has one of the few hospitals that specialize in certain procedures or field of expertise. People fly to Europe from all over the world as well when they have to have certain procedures. Those people that are flying all over the world are not common, you gotta ask what is best for the common person. That is something that you have to consider in everything.

As far as education goes, there is alot of misdirection in the way our youth is taught. It's not malicious, but obviously when said youth discovers they were mislead, how does that motivate them to want to keep learning? It also doesn't help that the most successful people they see didn't all come from educated backgrounds. I mean really the infrastructure of our society is at the core of our dilemmas.

General disinterest I find, is another culprit. I mean nobody ever really looks at our laws and points out which ones make sense. I find it funny that we are granted freedom of speech, but then can get slammed with a verbal abuse suit. Doesn't verbal abuse infringe on my liberty to tell whoever I please to fuck off?

I really could care less where we are ranked globally as long as we get fair treatment. Therein lies the problem though, because when you break it down, who can say they get fair treatment?