View Full Version : Drug testing For Dancers?
ExoticEngineer
01-10-2007, 04:21 PM
Wow, a pretty heated thread......
I'm on the fence with this one. Being older than the average stripper at most of the clubs I've worked at, I have no patience for drugged out stupid girls. Having lived with a drug addict for too many years, I have anger towards drug abusers (yah, it's irrational, but so what, there it is.) and when trying to hustle someone who wants to blow tons of cash and my hustle partner in the CR is too stoned to take it seriously and botches the entire deal, well I get fed up, yah.
And I have told my husband several times "No, I wont try that club, too much drug use goes on there." I will avoid clubs that are known for having lots and lots of drug use.
I want to say that we should drug test girls, clean up this industry and try to raise our income a bit...but I highly highly doubt it would ever happen.
I see what some of you are saying, that testing is an invasion of privacy and all that, blah....drugs are a world wide porblem, HUGE! So I'm one of those people that thinks if something can be done to help it a bit...okay, go for it...
What do I think would really happen in a club if not drug testing? I think they should get stricter. I remember the FIRST club I ever worked at...the manager would send a girl home if she looked stoned, smelled like pot, etc. If a girl was obviously geeked out, poof, she was gone. He did it enough times, girls stopped coming to work f*cked up, and the addicts went to a club with less hastle.
Andygirl
01-11-2007, 12:27 AM
I wouldn't work anywhere that made me take a drug test. I think it's a huge invasion of privacy and completely unneccesary. Plenty of "normal" people engage in recreational drug use, and that doesn't make them down low druggies. I am 100% pro-legalization of all drugs.
Now, the crackhead strippers--do we really need a test to tell us who they are? If you're causing drama or caught with drugs, you should be fired. Other than that, to each her own. It would be a real double standard to punish the pothead but enable the alcoholic, which is one of the effects drug testing would have on a club.
Andygirl
01-11-2007, 12:34 AM
And as for the "if you have nothing to hide you wouldn't be worried about it," I disagree. Even if I had nothing to hide it's still an invasion of my privacy.
I wouldn't allow police to search my home or car without a warrant, which means they would have to have probable cause.
I'm not ok with our president tapping people's phones so that he can find terrorists. I don't have anything to hide there either, but I would never agree with that. It's a ridiculous invasion on our civil liberties.
All in all, I am for fewer laws and restrictions in this country, not more. It's up to owners how they want to run a club, but I think there are better ways to weed out the druggies than mandatory drug testing. Any user knows how to clear a piss test.
Bridgette
01-11-2007, 02:46 AM
The bottom line is this: drug testing would clean up the industry, and FORCE it to be something more respectable and ultimately, more PROFITABLE overall. At least for the girls who'd remain. That's all I give a shit about in this business - M-O-N-E-Y. I don't care about anyone's so-called "privacy" - I still say it has nothing to do with that anyway. The druggies and the dumbasses are ruining it for everyone. Get the fuckers out, I say.
And YES, I'd be for testing club staff as well. Not just dancers.
Lola Rose
01-11-2007, 04:26 AM
I wish my club would do that! The girls getting drunk everynight would probably be out, most at least, b/c they're more likely to be doing drugs, plus a lot of the girls meeting otc, doing extras, and making this a reject profession, rather then a great career.
Jenny
01-11-2007, 05:08 AM
The bottom line is this: drug testing would clean up the industry, and FORCE it to be something more respectable and ultimately, more PROFITABLE overall. At least for the girls who'd remain. That's all I give a shit about in this business - M-O-N-E-Y. I don't care about anyone's so-called "privacy" - I still say it has nothing to do with that anyway. The druggies and the dumbasses are ruining it for everyone. Get the fuckers out, I say.
And YES, I'd be for testing club staff as well. Not just dancers.
But throwing out our basic rights and dignity for short term financial gain is short sighted; this policy would get rid of the druggies, not the dumbasses and further it is perfectly possible and even easier to punish the negative behaviour associated with drug abuse withOUT drug tests (like I said - you can actually enforce rules about stealing, rather than just assuming that it is the addicts stealing and so firing them for being addicts. That way, you actually get rid of all the thieves, not just the addicted ones). Plus a positive drug test DOES NOT MEAN that one is either using or possessing at the club. I know a lot of people in a lot of jobs that use recreationally on weekends, but don't use or bring their shit to the office.
Mia M
01-11-2007, 07:37 AM
They actually have done drug testing at my club! It was ridiculous... Like I've said before, looking for drug users in the bar biz is like looking for fat people at a buffet, they're everywhere.
PaigeDWinter
01-11-2007, 08:20 AM
I think it would be a hindrance. BUT... I've only ever personally seen one club do it... and they were never at a loss for girls. I think the idea is good but the outcome would suck.
Susan Wayward
01-11-2007, 11:52 AM
B, do you really think you need a test to weed out addicted/problem strippers? You really don't need to test to know who the coke whores are. If they are shitty, dramarific employees, that and that alone should be enough to get rid of them.
On the other hand, if your personal recreational use of the substance of your choice is just that - recreational - I honestly don't give a shit. If you do coke when you're out dancing or take pills and nod out at home or smoke weed before the movies, but are capable and sober at work, it doesn't affect my work environment one bit.
Long story short, drug testing is really, really extreme. If you need a test to tell you who your problem employees might be you are so in the wrong business. Feel free to fire without them as you really don't need any cause. I don't even drink and I wouldn't want to take a drug test.
And, dammit, people, it's staph, not staff.
Emily
01-11-2007, 12:15 PM
Shouldn't the same be said for people with eating disorders? The only significant differences between a drug problem and an eating disorder are legality and stigma.
I don't know about this. People with drug problems are desperate for money, which is significant in the context of a strip club.
flickad
01-11-2007, 01:07 PM
I don't know about this. People with drug problems are desperate for money, which is significant in the context of a strip club.
What I meant was that it was rather hypocritical for sophiemarie to use a derogatory term for addicts and to state that they should get help, while she refuses to get help (other than liposuction) for her own, very public problems.
Also it is not true that all addicts are thieves.
ExoticEngineer
01-11-2007, 01:08 PM
And, dammit, people, it's staph, not staff.
That made me laugh.
See, you have a point, and that is where I am on the fence about it all. Recreational use. Girls who smoke weed (I'm sorry, but I've never seen a woman sell her body so she could score a joint) Etc..... none of that hinders a good work environment.... Like I said before, I doubt any drug testing would happen, what I think should happen is a zero tolerance for bullsh*t. Got drama? Get out. Steal? Get out. Stroking d*ck in the VIP? Get out. No warnings, no probation...just get the girls who cause everyone else trouble out of the clubs.
*stepping off my soap box now, I'm afraid of heights.
Glamazon
01-11-2007, 01:31 PM
I don't know about this. People with drug problems are desperate for money, which is significant in the context of a strip club.
Didn't you see the episode of Intervention with the bulimic stripper? She had to strip to afford all of the food that she was using to binge and purge. Her family had kicked her out of the house and put locks on the fridge because she would eat hundreds of dollars worth of food in just a couple of days. That's just as bad as a gram (or more) a day coke habit.
flickad
01-11-2007, 02:09 PM
That made me laugh.
See, you have a point, and that is where I am on the fence about it all. Recreational use. Girls who smoke weed (I'm sorry, but I've never seen a woman sell her body so she could score a joint) Etc..... none of that hinders a good work environment.... Like I said before, I doubt any drug testing would happen, what I think should happen is a zero tolerance for bullsh*t. Got drama? Get out. Steal? Get out. Stroking d*ck in the VIP? Get out. No warnings, no probation...just get the girls who cause everyone else trouble out of the clubs.
*stepping off my soap box now, I'm afraid of heights.
Yep, agreed.
Emily
01-11-2007, 02:37 PM
Didn't you see the episode of Intervention with the bulimic stripper? She had to strip to afford all of the food that she was using to binge and purge. Her family had kicked her out of the house and put locks on the fridge because she would eat hundreds of dollars worth of food in just a couple of days. That's just as bad as a gram (or more) a day coke habit.
I didn't, but that's one eating disorder. But I'm guessing she could eat less expensively and still eat the way she had been. I mean, she could sit at a buffet all day. Whereas all druggies need money to sustain their habit, not all ED sufferers do.
Apples and oranges!
Also it is not true that all addicts are thieves.
I never said that! I said they were desperate for money. As for sophiemarie....don't take her too seriously (if you haven't yet, I might suggest the ignore feature.)
Anyway, there are tons of things on my wish list for things club management would do to make SCs better...and drug testing wouldn't make the top 100. I'm not sure why I'm defnding it it, even though I'm in favor of it. In the grand scheme of things, I find it insignificant.
Silky
01-11-2007, 03:29 PM
Most customers would like you to be impaired while you're in there.
I see the point your making in context, would just like to add that:
The customers that really want the girl impaired i could do without.I can see how some customers may have more fun with a girl that is a tad "loosened up" from a drink or two ... because some girls in the biz just can not shine at their best without it, but the customers who reallly tolerate junked up girls are trouble and should leave with the girls.
Im split on this issue, but i do see the point in saying that the drug testing pretty much FORCES the clubs to clean house...since no one else is willingly doing it at this moment very well. Something def needs to be done to professionalize and glamorize this industry. Obviously impaired druggies and slob girls that do sex acts(slobs that are not junkies as well) are def not helping. Im not saying this is the solution, i dunno what is at this moment.
Bridgette
01-11-2007, 04:35 PM
B, do you really think you need a test to weed out addicted/problem strippers? You really don't need to test to know who the coke whores are. If they are shitty, dramarific employees, that and that alone should be enough to get rid of them.
No, I don't think we NEED a test to weed out the shitty strippers. I just think that's the simplest way to do it, considering the massive ignorama that prevails with our management. If we could get management to run our clubs properly we wouldn't even be talking about this, would we? How many clubs REALLY ever fire problem girls? Not many. Getting "fired" from a strip club is a joke.
At my new club, there are druggies. But the club is well-run and problem girls get weeded out by management in relatively short time. Not to say there are NO problem girls, but the problems are waaaaaaayyy fewer than in most clubs.
As a side note about the booze. I drank a fair amount of champagne last night, and knowing I'd have to blow the machine before being allowed to drive home, and not wanting to leave my car at the club, I made sure to lay off the booze, drank water and had a snack so I could sober up before closing time. I blew under the limit and was allowed to drive. But I liked knowing that if I was over, I wouldn't have.
AlexDeLarge
01-11-2007, 06:52 PM
Was talking with a friend club owner of mine and he is seriously considering making MANDATORY drug testing for all dancers as part of his clubs policies. This is partially due to appease local LE authorities, but also the many lives that he has seen ruined and lost (mostly as a result of meth, cocaine and herion addictions) as a result of substance abuse over the years. I don't think the NBA has a drug testing policy for pot-perhaps because the league might have very few players if it did?... Do you all think the stripping industry would be greatly reduced (aka like the NBA) if in fact drug testing for all illegal substances becomes reality?
Drug testing is utter BS from the start.
First off, it only tests for *certain* drugs, while drugs like alcohol are not tested for. Let's face it, ALCOHOL is the most dangerous drug doing more harm than any other (indeed, 110,000 people die a year from alcohol related health problems - that's 50 TIMES more than for all other recreational drugs combines).
I n some occupations - like airline pilot, there are strict rules about drug and alcohol use on the job.
But DANCING? Come on - what's management afraid of? that you're going to be rollin' on Ecstasy, and give away free lap dances?
Seriously. Clubs have NO right to be randomly testing people for drugs.
For more on Drug War issues, see:
http://www.DrugWarFAQ.com
A
AlexDeLarge
01-11-2007, 06:59 PM
And as for the "if you have nothing to hide you wouldn't be worried about it," I disagree. Even if I had nothing to hide it's still an invasion of my privacy.
I wouldn't allow police to search my home or car without a warrant, which means they would have to have probable cause.
I'm not ok with our president tapping people's phones so that he can find terrorists. I don't have anything to hide there either, but I would never agree with that. It's a ridiculous invasion on our civil liberties.
All in all, I am for fewer laws and restrictions in this country, not more. It's up to owners how they want to run a club, but I think there are better ways to weed out the druggies than mandatory drug testing. Any user knows how to clear a piss test.
Absolutely - glad to see someone here who cares about their civil liberties.
I am so often shocked by people that seem to think a problem can be solved by some sort of totalitarian big brother nightmare.
There is nothing wrong with drug use.
There can be a problem with IRRESPONSIBLE drug use. But you don't need a drug test to see an irresponsible drug user, now do we?
A
Lola Rose
01-11-2007, 07:08 PM
Drug testing is utter BS from the start.
Seriously. Clubs have NO right to be randomly testing people for drugs.
well other stupid bitches have no right to mess up my job security w/ their illegal activities itc.
First off, it only tests for *certain* drugs, while drugs like alcohol are not tested for. Let's face it, ALCOHOL is the most dangerous drug doing more harm than any other (indeed, 110,000 people die a year from alcohol related health problems - that's 50 TIMES more than for all other recreational drugs combines).
Ya, but clubs can get breathalizers.... mine does, as does Bridgettes... and so do others. So they can test for both.
In some occupations - like airline pilot, there are strict rules about drug and alcohol use on the job.
But DANCING? Come on - what's management afraid of? that you're going to be rollin' on Ecstasy, and give away free lap dances?
Mnagement is most into saving their asses. that would be their #1, 2 and 3 reasons for testing.
My reason for wanting it.... get rid of the desperate coked out extras girls that make work dangerous and it undercuts me. quite simply, money would be better w/out all the desperation of druggies. If some girl can't sell full price dances so she does buy 2 get 1 deals, I'll have a really hard time selling them full price.
Lola Rose
01-11-2007, 07:12 PM
Absolutely - glad to see someone here who cares about their civil liberties.
I am so often shocked by people that seem to think a problem can be solved by some sort of totalitarian big brother nightmare.
There is nothing wrong with drug use.
There can be a problem with IRRESPONSIBLE drug use. But you don't need a drug test to see an irresponsible drug user, now do we?
A
ummm. it's ILLEGAL!!! that seems like a big fat something wrong to me! If someone comes to work high or w/ drugs, I can loose my job, privacy, and get arrested. But there's nothing wrong with that?
If the "totalitarian big brother" drug tests keep me safe at work and increase my money, then they work!!!
AlexDeLarge
01-11-2007, 08:42 PM
ummm. it's ILLEGAL!!! that seems like a big fat something wrong to me! If someone comes to work high or w/ drugs, I can loose my job, privacy, and get arrested. But there's nothing wrong with that?
If the "totalitarian big brother" drug tests keep me safe at work and increase my money, then they work!!!
Uh huh. I suppose you voted for Bush, too.
A
evan_essence
01-11-2007, 09:19 PM
Uh huh. I suppose you voted for Bush, too.Oh, let's not start that. Please. This is not a political forum. Let's confine our observations to issues related to drug testing.
It seems to me the bottom line is that, although this is an interesting philosophical debate, it's a totally moot point from a real world point of view. Widespread drug testing is not going to become commonplace at strip clubs, no matter how much we wish it so. First and foremost, it would cut into the club's money by reducing house fees. It also would potentially shine the light on any abuse or recreational use within the ranks of management. Therefore, management has reasons not to implement it.
Besides, as we've noted, if management runs a tight ship, they probably don't need to spend the money on testing because they're already weeding bad employees out without that expense. If they don't run a tight ship, they're not suddenly going to be inspired by the concept of drug testing to start.
(On a related note, I'm amazed management of any business, other than jobs where public safety is an overriding issue, would ever choose to engage in intrusive drug testing or spying on employee computer use as routine policy because I consider it to be inept micromanaging. The more complicated you make something, the more likely you are to get sued. Firing for cause introduces questions about the legitimacy and fairness of the process. Firing without cause, there's nothing to question. In other words, privacy schmivacy, intrusion is a bad business move. Hire, keep and encourage good employees based on their output; it's so much more efficient.)
-Ev
Silky
01-11-2007, 09:23 PM
Well this thread seems to be going into another issue. Recreational drug/ alcohol use, as we know, is far different from recreational drug/alcohol ABUSE.
There are also girls that may have a little something in their system but not be apparently "fucked up" "giving extras" or ''causing disturbances." In my opinion, i do no see anything wrong with that. I compare it to a girl that has a couple drinks in her system but is not a problem to the club with her actions.
So, in reality, the drug testing would most likely solve the problem to an extent, and weed out the real problem junkie dancers with force. It would do this by taking away the right of a dancer who is not a problem, but would rather do another drug instead of drinking a couple drinks.
Ofcourse, i know the legality issue comes to play... and people think that it is wrong in the first place for another dancer to be "high" on something in her workplace. If the dancer/worker does not bring drugs into the club, i do not see it as a problem.
This is not a self-serving post. I am not an illegal drug user period.
Lola Rose
01-11-2007, 09:35 PM
Uh huh. I suppose you voted for Bush, too.
A
Ummm... not that that's any of your biz...
You assuming, and asking even, who I voted for as a way to make a point only serves to makes you sound like a major hypocrite. If what dangerous illegal substances people do should be private, then voting obviously should be private too.
So nice of you to join just to guess my political affiliations and promote the tolerance of drugs :)
evan_essence
01-11-2007, 09:51 PM
ummm. it's ILLEGAL!!! that seems like a big fat something wrong to me! If someone comes to work high or w/ drugs, I can loose my job, privacy, and get arrested. But there's nothing wrong with that?Lap dancing as it's commonly practiced is illegal in most states. Many jurisdictions also have distance requirements that dancers don't voluntarily comply with. Therefore, I think this is the wrong job to be arguing for strict enforcement of the law lest we get what we wish for. It's more consistent to career opportunities to be libertarian about these issues. Besides, no one supporting the right to privacy is arguing that illicit drugs are legal or their abuse is good. Least of all me. My g/f just lost a brother whose death was probably hastened by his past connections to that whole lifestyle. We all agree it's a problem and it has no place in the club. We're disagreeing about the methods to screen it out.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is an appropriate style of response, not "I suppose you voted for Bush too" nor accusing someone of joining to "promote the tolerance of drugs." Let's all take a deep breath and relax. :P ;D
-Ev
Lola Rose
01-11-2007, 11:36 PM
Lap dancing as it's commonly practiced is illegal in most states. Many jurisdictions also have distance requirements that dancers don't voluntarily comply with. Therefore, I think this is the wrong job to be arguing for strict enforcement of the law lest we get what we wish for. It's more consistent to career opportunities to be libertarian about these issues. Besides, no one supporting the right to privacy is arguing that illicit drugs are legal or their abuse is good. Least of all me. My g/f just lost a brother whose death was probably hastened by his past connections to that whole lifestyle. We all agree it's a problem and it has no place in the club. We're disagreeing about the methods to screen it out.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is an appropriate style of response, not "I suppose you voted for Bush too" nor accusing someone of joining to "promote the tolerance of drugs." Let's all take a deep breath and relax. :P ;D
-Ev
Good example of a mature post!
anyways, I dance legally, we have a no contact rule 6 inches between their body and mine when dancing, full nude. I agre that strict enforcement wouldn't work for everyone, but in my location and at my club, I think it would work well. A few dancers pushing the rules w/ drugs and contact ruin it for everyone. I don't think I could dance where the rules weren't enforced more then not. I don't mind contact, but I wouldn't do something that could get me charged with a sex crime. I guess I'm ok with the testing because I see it helping more for me then it could ever hurt me. It seems like even the club having these records (say you're tested evert 2 months) would protect the whole club from being shut down if there is a bust and drugs are found. I'm looking at the big picture like that, so it makes sense to me. Plus, it would be good for money! And that's my bottom line :)
flickad
01-12-2007, 04:11 AM
I didn't, but that's one eating disorder. But I'm guessing she could eat less expensively and still eat the way she had been. I mean, she could sit at a buffet all day. Whereas all druggies need money to sustain their habit, not all ED sufferers do.
Apples and oranges!
I never said that! I said they were desperate for money. As for sophiemarie....don't take her too seriously (if you haven't yet, I might suggest the ignore feature.)
Anyway, there are tons of things on my wish list for things club management would do to make SCs better...and drug testing wouldn't make the top 100. I'm not sure why I'm defnding it it, even though I'm in favor of it. In the grand scheme of things, I find it insignificant.
Saying 'desperate for money' like it's a bad thing tends to imply stealing as a spin-off from that. If that's not what you intended..well...alot of strippers are desperate for money, for reasons that have nothing to do with drugs.
Bulimics in general do tend to use up alot of money bingeing and buying vast amounts of laxatives and diuretics. That's not the case with non-bingeing eating disorders, but it's certainly not uncommon in ones involving bingeing and/or purging.
Of course I don't take sophiemarie especially seriously, though it does irk me when the pot calls the kettle black ;).
Jenny
01-12-2007, 08:40 AM
Can someone explain to me how/why an entire club is shut down because one girl has drugs in her locker? I've never seen this. I've never seen a club shut down for drugs at all, and I have seen one of the manager arrested for dealing cocaine. How is one independant contractor possessing getting an entire business with no apparent connection to the possession shut down? Again, this could just be an American thing. I'm wondering if this is something that could happen, or if one person suggested it and everyone else is leaping on it.
Honestly - this obsession with other girls using drugs - could y'all be projecting anymore? It's like "We're dancers and society looks down on us, so quick let's otherize extras girls and drug users." As Emily and Evan pointed out - if management took it into their heads to actually manage the clubs and use standards there are 10 000 ways of doing it that don't involve either micromanagement or invasion of privacy. If you don't like extras, perhaps the more efficient way of getting rid of them is to fire the extras girls rather than the extras girls who are drug users as well as the non-extras girls who are drug users.
And yes, drugs are illegal. Theft is also illegal. It doesn't give my boss the right to enter my home at any time to make sure that I have no stolen property in here. We have, in our society, strict measures and standards in place for dealing with criminal activity and balancing the rights of the individual against the prevention of crime. So the fact that they are illegal is completely irrelevant - the club is not the police, and have no duty to enforce that kind of law.
Bridgette - the club is protecting itself from liability, and I think it is great. But keep in mind that the tube only records what you have been drinking right then - it doesn't come up positive because you were drinking a week ago when you weren't even at work.
AlexDeLarge
01-12-2007, 10:31 AM
Well this thread seems to be going into another issue. Recreational drug/ alcohol use, as we know, is far different from recreational drug/alcohol ABUSE..
Exactly - just because the government says it's "illegal" does not m,ake it "wrong" those are two different things.
The reality is that most people that use drugs are NOT irresponsible about it. The vast majority are recreational, and not abusive, users. The few that are (roughly 10 to 15 percent according to NIDA) are quite visible with or without a drug test.
Drug testing only really infringes the rights of those that DON'T have a problem.
A
Bridgette
01-12-2007, 10:43 AM
*sigh*
No, I don't think we NEED a test to weed out the shitty strippers. I just think that's the simplest way to do it, considering the massive ignorama that prevails with our management. If we could get management to run our clubs properly we wouldn't even be talking about this, would we? How many clubs REALLY ever fire problem girls? Not many. Getting "fired" from a strip club is a joke.
Also, I'm well aware the club is protecting itself with the booze tube. But in the process it's also protecting all the girls as well. So I love it. I don't care that it is only there as a benefit to the club - it benefits me too.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm not projecting. I gave up being terribly bothered about what the rest of society thinks of me a long time ago. Obviously I don't advertise that I'm a stripper, but at the same time it's not a huge secret and I don't even bother trying to be friends with someone if I can't tell them about my job. I am concerned about where this industry is going and how it's being ruined by truckloads of assholes who've all but overrun the whole business. Drugs being one of the biggest and most glaring problems, I would LOVE to see them eliminated or at least drastically reduced.
AlexDeLarge
01-12-2007, 11:08 AM
Ummm... not that that's any of your biz...
You assuming, and asking even, who I voted for as a way to make a point only serves to makes you sound like a major hypocrite. If what dangerous illegal substances people do should be private, then voting obviously should be private too.
So nice of you to join just to guess my political affiliations and promote the tolerance of drugs :)
I didn't ask WHO you voted for, just noted that:
1) You're in Florida
2) You are supporting the Neocon party line regarding recreational drugs.
So, I was taking a guess as to who you voted for. Seems to have hit a nerve...
A
Emily
01-12-2007, 11:56 AM
So, I was taking a guess as to who you voted for. Seems to have hit a nerve...
A
Why are you trying to ruin a perfectly good thread? How is that relevant? Is being a Bush supporter now considered proof of idiocy?
I wish customers would at least consider the years of experience we have before opening up their mouthes about what it's like to work in a strip club.
Saying 'desperate for money' like it's a bad thing tends to imply stealing as a spin-off from that. If that's not what you intended..well...alot of strippers are desperate for money, for reasons that have nothing to do with drugs.
I meant EXTRAS! Yes, any dancer is capable of extras, but let's be real. Junkies are more likely to do them. Cheap.
ExoticEngineer
01-12-2007, 11:58 AM
K, no passive-aggresive jerk-like behavour, please.
This is all theory and what-if anyway. Let's all try to keep an open mind and not bash eachother on a subject that we all agree on, to one point.
Helle
01-12-2007, 12:36 PM
I have a real problem with anyone saying 'Well this isn't right because it's illegal'. As someone said above, something being illegal doesn't necessarily make it bad--I would hope that everyone would always learn about and question any rules put over them by government--I think the illegality of most drugs is one of those.
I know my opinion won't be valued, but I wish drugs and extreme drug use (leading to problems) could be seen as an illness and an addiction problem, as opposed to a stigma. It seems when someone is an alcoholic we have a little more sympathy and understanding for them whereas being a crackhead is unforgiveable.
Mandatory drug testin is not going to help the drug problem one iota. I realize at clubs this won't be the point, but I think it's an extremely lazy way for the management to get out of actually paying attention and communicating with it's emplyees to see who the trouble makers are. A drug test won't weed out the problems any better than good management--In fact, it'll be demonizing some good girls who may be recreational users you never knew about.
From dancing for eigh years I've seen a lot of girls who were nutso because of drugs... But I've seen just as many girls who were nutso because of personal problems or mental issues. No test is going to weed them out except good management.
ExoticEngineer
01-12-2007, 12:57 PM
From dancing for eigh years I've seen a lot of girls who were nutso because of drugs... But I've seen just as many girls who were nutso because of personal problems or mental issues. No test is going to weed them out except good management.
Great point. It definiatly boils down to good management. Wich is such a shame considering the total lack of that I see in about every club I go to.
ie, removing the chairs from the dressing room so that we don't spend too much time there instead of watching the girls on the floor who are falling down drunk or so geeked out they pass out in the CR and get taken advantage of by a custy. (Both of these happened in one night).
I started out thinking when I first read this thread that I was on the fence with the whole idea, but you girls make excellent points, and while I am not innocent of having tried certain drugs at certain times in my life, I am not a consistent 'user'. I am a good worker, I bust my ass and keep to myself at work, and if I were to go out on say NYE and smoke a joint with my friend, come to work two days later sober as a 5 year old, I'd get fired after a drug test?
That doesn't seem right some how.
So.... what do you all think SHOULD happen to get management of clubs to start being more active in actually managing a club? Again, this is ALL theorizing, so play nice kids. ::)
flickad
01-12-2007, 12:57 PM
Why are you trying to ruin a perfectly good thread? How is that relevant? Is being a Bush supporter now considered proof of idiocy?
I wish customers would at least consider the years of experience we have before opening up their mouthes about what it's like to work in a strip club.
I meant EXTRAS! Yes, any dancer is capable of extras, but let's be real. Junkies are more likely to do them. Cheap.
Hmm. I knew extras girls who never did drugs, as far as I could tell anyway. I also knew clean dancers who smoked meth every night.
AlexDeLarge
01-12-2007, 01:22 PM
Why are you trying to ruin a perfectly good thread? How is that relevant? Is being a Bush supporter now considered proof of idiocy?
.
My my my. I never said that. ANY of that.
1) I never called anyone an idiot.
2) I am not "ruining" a good thread
3) Supporting the neocon administration AND drug testing go hand in hand. It is the neocon movement that started with all this "war on some drugs" BS in the first place.
4) I don't pretend to know what it's like to be a stripper, though most of the women I date are either dancers or adult actresses. I do have a bit of knowledge in the industry. I also have a great deal of experience with substance abuse, and some years ago I founded this organization:
http://www.DrugActionNetwork.com
5) People that are irresponsible with their drug use are the issue here, NOT drug use per se. And people with a drug use *problem* are rather easy to pick out from a crowd, even without invasions of privacy.
6) Indeed, invasions of privacy such as mandatory drug tests really harm *responsible* users, and does *nothing* to help those are are *abusers*.
A
virgoamm
01-12-2007, 02:12 PM
Okay, first of all, who are you bash her political beliefs? I feel the exact same way she does and I'm ALL for recreational drug use. How about that? You can't pigenhole someone just because of their beliefs on a certain topic. Just because you have "second hand knowledge" and date "strippers and adult actresses" does not mean you know any of the realities we deal with day in and day out when we're at work. I don't support drug testing in general for obvious reasons, but bringing up the idea of drug testing in a SC is completely diferent. You would have to WORK in one to understand why we feel the way we do.
My my my. I never said that. ANY of that.
1) I never called anyone an idiot.
2) I am not "ruining" a good thread
3) Supporting the neocon administration AND drug testing go hand in hand. It is the neocon movement that started with all this "war on some drugs" BS in the first place.
4) I don't pretend to know what it's like to be a stripper, though most of the women I date are either dancers or adult actresses. I do have a bit of knowledge in the industry. I also have a great deal of experience with substance abuse, and some years ago I founded this organization:
http://www.DrugActionNetwork.com
5) People that are irresponsible with their drug use are the issue here, NOT drug use per se. And people with a drug use *problem* are rather easy to pick out from a crowd, even without invasions of privacy.
6) Indeed, invasions of privacy such as mandatory drug tests really harm *responsible* users, and does *nothing* to help those are are *abusers*.
A
virgoamm
01-12-2007, 02:19 PM
My my my. I never said that. ANY of that.
Just because you didn't out and out say something does not mean that it was not implied.
AlexDeLarge
01-12-2007, 02:25 PM
Okay, first of all, who are you bash her political beliefs?
The subject is drug testing, a political topic. Making a comment on said political beliefs is part of the discourse on the subject.
A
AlexDeLarge
01-12-2007, 02:27 PM
Just because you didn't out and out say something does not mean that it was not implied.
It doesn't mean it WAS implied, either.
A
virgoamm
01-12-2007, 02:39 PM
The subject is drug testing, a political topic. Making a comment on said political beliefs is part of the discourse on the subject.
A
Okay, well I guess I should have been more clear. Who are you do bash her based on what you imagine to be her political beliefs? According to your stringent criteria for what constitutes a Neo-con, I would be one as well. Wow, silly me for not wanting to work with a bunch of junkies..::)
AlexDeLarge
01-12-2007, 02:42 PM
bringing up the idea of drug testing in a SC is completely diferent. You would have to WORK in one to understand why we feel the way we do.
No, I don't - the idea of such drug testing rests on the same principles that people use to support *any* drug testing, not to mention many other forms of privacy invasion.
The general idea is that "drugs make people bad, so stop people from using drugs" or "drug users are all bad people, so put them away".
Both statements are false.
The true statement is "some people have deep seated problems, and in some cases, drug ABUSE is a symptom of that problem".
DRUGS don't screw people up. People that *are* screwed up sometimes develop abusive use habits.
Most people that use drugs DO NOT.
Now let's consider that most drug tests isolate certain drugs (pot,coke, etc) and ignore the most dangerous drug of all: Alcohol.
The big difference is that the alcohol industry spends tons of money lobbying in DC to keep their drug legal.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/06/08/ED83192.DTL
Despite this, it kills more and damages more than any other drug, save tobacco.
Certainly compared to marijuana with is practically non-toxic, and has been shown in university medical studies to NOT cause cancer.
But I digress.
The issue here is responsibility. No doubt that a loser with a meth habit is a problem in the workplace - but it's not the meth, it's the underlying psychological problem that developed *into* a meth habit. But you don't need a drug test to see a problem like this, you only need to open your eyes.
A
AlexDeLarge
01-12-2007, 02:51 PM
Wow, silly me for not wanting to work with a bunch of junkies..::)
how do YOU define "junkie"?
A
ExoticEngineer
01-12-2007, 02:56 PM
::) So much for trying to steer towards a more "constructive" conversation.....
So, what your saying is Meth isn't a bad drug? Not so sure I could agree with you there. Nuh uh.
ExoticEngineer
01-12-2007, 02:58 PM
Oh wait, I take that back, it sound much too close to you implying she voted for bush...My bad. }:D
Emily
01-12-2007, 03:05 PM
4) I don't pretend to know what it's like to be a stripper, though most of the women I date are either dancers or adult actresses. I do have a bit of knowledge in the industry.
:laughing: I stand corrected.
virgoamm
01-12-2007, 03:28 PM
No, I don't - the idea of such drug testing rests on the same principles that people use to support *any* drug testing, not to mention many other forms of privacy invasion.
Actually, yes you do. In the "real world" normal jobs themselves usually weed out the junkies in question here. They cannot work on a schedule, show up every day at 8am or go for any reasonable period of time without calling in sick. The "responsible", recreational or occasional users do not do this. In a SC, on the other hand, this is not the case. Junkies THRIVE in this type of environment and they are pervasive at our jobs because of circumstances such as not having a schedule, showing up at whatever day/time you please and having the potential to make a lot of money on any given night that allows them to. I see it, and any other person who has worked as a dancer sees it. They are like a scourge, and honestly, any normal, goal-oriented, level-headed dancer does not want to work with people like this on a daily basis.
The general idea is that "drugs make people bad, so stop people from using drugs" or "drug users are all bad people, so put them away".
Both statements are false.
No, that is not the general idea. Drugs do not always make people bad, but they most certainly can and do. I am not trying to stop anyone from using drugs. If you can use them recreationally and still maintain a normal, functional life-who am I to judge? It is the people that ABUSE drugs and who are ADDICTS that I have a problem with. If you're spending all of your money on coke, stealing from your co-workers, causing problems at work or performing extras to support your habit AT work-yes, I have a problem with you and do not want to work with you or around you. You are putting me at risk, as well as the club, and good riddance is all I can say.
The true statement is "some people have deep seated problems, and in some cases, drug ABUSE is a symptom of that problem".
DRUGS don't screw people up. People that *are* screwed up sometimes develop abusive use habits.
Most people that use drugs DO NOT.
Drugs don't screw people up? Are you for real?? Yes, screwed up people develop drug habits, I am not denying that at all. But they also can claim victim to those who are otherwise completely normal people. That is a FACT.
Now let's consider that most drug tests isolate certain drugs (pot,coke, etc) and ignore the most dangerous drug of all: Alcohol.
The big difference is that the alcohol industry spends tons of money lobbying in DC to keep their drug legal.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/06/08/ED83192.DTL
Despite this, it kills more and damages more than any other drug, save tobacco.
Certainly compared to marijuana with is practically non-toxic, and has been shown in university medical studies to NOT cause cancer.
I am not going to disagree with you here. Two of the most dangerous drugs-cigarettes and alcohol are completely legal depite all of the lung cancer, emphysema, car crashes and liver failure they cause. Do I think the government is hypocritical in this sense to keep these drugs legal and yet put people in jail for using others they deem "illegal" and "harmful"? Well, yes I do.
But I digress.
The issue here is responsibility. No doubt that a loser with a meth habit is a problem in the workplace - but it's not the meth, it's the underlying psychological problem that developed *into* a meth habit. But you don't need a drug test to see a problem like this, you only need to open your eyes.
Again, I have to disagree. Just because someone develops a meth habit does not mean they have some underlying psychological problem. Otherwise normal people do get caught up in drugs, you know. And yes, sometimes you DO need a test to see this, and if not only to see it, but to have a valid excuse to get these people the hell out of the workplace.
Helle
01-12-2007, 03:35 PM
I agree with Alex to a poin but... not on the political stuff. As far as I know, NO ONE, democrat, liberterian or republican wants to work with a girl who is strung out. Not because it is necessarily morally wrong (or it isn't) but it's just a bummer.
Things management could do to be more active? I feel my club is a pretty prime example. If you're lounging in the dressing room, you're getting yelled at and possible fined. Extras? Fired. Drugs? Fired. Anything illegal--Fired. Lounging, acting bitchy, being drunk, innapropriate costume--Fined or yelled at, disciplinary action same as you would get in any sales job.
It's as simple as just making the rules and actually enforcing them. That is ALL management needs to do--Make the right rules and enforce them. It seems most clubs feel as though if they are this strict and enforce the rules to the T, girls will leave for places where they can get away with anything. This is pretty much bullshit, as most of the responsible and reliable dancers I have ever worked with would RATHER be in a club that reasonable enforced.
Mandatory drug testing in strip clubs is such a goofy half assed idea. You're going to get rid of some girls on drugs I suppose but anyone who thinks that is the major problem in the strip club industry right now is naive. If you feel making the strip club a police state will make it a better place, well... Drug tests aren't the first step to take that way.
I do agree with Alex that drug abuse is a symptom of much larger personal issues. Addiction and obsession of any kind is a disease that takes much more than just taking the target away to cure it.