View Full Version : Got in trouble for using "we'll have more privacy and intimacy in the VIP room"!
Kaylinn
01-10-2007, 06:16 PM
"DancerWealth, you've been suggesting using "intimate atmosphere" technique, using it just cost me loss of $200 bucks"
im confused. it seems you made 300 bucks using the technique. pls set me straight here.
The price of the room is $500. Although she made $300, she was entitled to $500.
Kaylinn
01-10-2007, 06:47 PM
Yes, she ended up with more money than if she had never met this guy, but she was not compensated the whole amount she was owed.
Look at it this way. You make $10 an hour at your job. That is $80 per day. You do something to piss off a customer, so your boss says today, I'm only paying you $50, to compensate the disgruntled customer.
Sure, you made more money than if you had called off work that day, but you were not paid the total amount you worked for. If you work an 8 hour shift, you expect to be paid for an 8 hour shift. Likewise, if she does an hour in a VIP room, she wants paid for an hour.
Paris
01-10-2007, 07:56 PM
I guess in this manager's world, you should sell it by saying, "Well, the VIP room is exactly the same as it is on the floor but you pay a lot more money for time and you have to buy over-priced bottles of wine too."
OMG! HAHA! Sorry DW, but that totally cracks me up! Reminds me of the movie "Crazy People" and their truth in advertizing bit.
I think I'm going to make T-shirts with that phrase on it.;D
Katrine
01-10-2007, 08:39 PM
"No sex" and being straight-forward is great in theory, but imagine the ugly reality:
You've just paid $100 to work a shift, are in from out of town, paying for a hotel and other expenses. You've been working your ass off in a club overcrowded with dancers and undercrowded with quality customers. Its time to hustle for it!
I'm not saying what OP did was justified, and I still stand by the fact the the custy is a cock-socket. I'm just saying, that in the environment, there is a lot of pressure to say what you need to get the sale or risk nothing.
And please ignore this captain tom ladies, he stinketh of troll.
Jenny
01-10-2007, 08:52 PM
I'm not saying what OP did was justified, and I still stand by the fact the the custy is a cock-socket. I'm just saying, that in the environment, there is a lot of pressure to say what you need to get the sale or risk nothing.
And please ignore this captain tom ladies, he stinketh of troll.
I don't know; if all she really said is "well, it's more intimate and private" I don't think that skirts too close to the line. I do think some lines like "Well we can have a lot more fun" "how much more fun" "a LOT!" and stuff like that skirts a little - and regardless of whether or not any girl feels justified in deliberately misleading the customer (as opposed to delivered prefab lines that everyone knows don't mean anything) you can't blame the customer for being annoyed if you have deliberately led him to believe that you will fuck him or blow him or whatever and he forks over the cash and then you don't deliver. Like, yeah, they're going to be annoyed and pissed off because they have just paid you for a service that you are not delivering. I do, however, think that you have to DO something to engender this belief; a simple "well, it's more private" I don't think does this.
dancersrights
01-10-2007, 10:24 PM
All I have to say is fuck that! Management 90% of the time can give a rats ass about us...most of the time they are shady individuals that will scam you so watch out...about you, you did NOTHING wrong, this guy was a jackass, like most, but I'm sorry you had to shell out 200.
DancerWealth
01-10-2007, 11:21 PM
I do, however, think that you have to DO something to engender this belief; a simple "well, it's more private" I don't think does this.
Exactly my point. I can only imagine the conversation between her and the manager:
Customer: I want my money back. The dancer said we would go somewhere that was a lot more "intimate" and I assumed that meant sex. She didn't give me that so I want my money back.
Manager: You're right, Even though her having sex with you would be a felony and we can lose our license because of it, I'm going to support your claim and give you your money back.
Manager [to Adelina]: You have to give some of the money back. You claimed you were going somewhere "intimate" and "intimate" means sex so you have to give the money back.
I just cannot fathom how a manager can see this as being a good idea any way you look at it. Especially considering that they gave this guy free passes to come back and pull this crap AGAIN. The way I see it, it's like a cocaine dealer selling someone powdered sugar and the customer goes to the police wanting their money back or cocaine instead and the forces the coke dealer to give the money back. It's insane. You should have gone to the store, bought a dictionary, came back with the word "intimate" highlighted and asked that manager where does it say anywhere in that definition that "intimate" equals "sex".
Pan Dah
01-10-2007, 11:38 PM
You should have gone to the store, bought a dictionary, came back with the word "intimate" highlighted and asked that manager where does it say anywhere in that definition that "intimate" equals "sex".
Ummm. Bad idea, DW. I still think the manager was way off base, and I like your coke dealer analogy, but:
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861622054/intimacy.html
in·ti·ma·cy [ íntəməssee ] (plural in·ti·ma·cies)
noun
Definition:
1. close relationship: a close personal relationship
2. quiet atmosphere: a quiet and private atmosphere
3. detailed knowledge: a detailed knowledge resulting from a close or long association or study
4. private utterance or action: a private and personal utterance or action
5. sexual act: a sexual act or sexual intercourse ( often used euphemistically )
DancerWealth
01-11-2007, 12:06 AM
Encarta may say one thing but I'll go to the grand-daddy of all dictionaries. From Merriam-Webster's dictionary:
Main Entry: in·ti·mate
Pronunciation: 'in-t&-m&t
Function: adjective
Etymology: alteration of obsolete intime, from Latin intimus
1 a : INTRINSIC (http://www.webster.com/dictionary/intrinsic), ESSENTIAL (http://www.webster.com/dictionary/essential) b : belonging to or characterizing one's deepest nature
2 : marked by very close association, contact, or familiarity <intimate knowledge of the law>
3 a : marked by a warm friendship developing through long association <intimate friends> b : suggesting informal warmth or privacy <intimate clubs>
4 : of a very personal or private nature <intimate secrets>
Nowhere does it say anything about sex and as far as I'm concerned, it's still the best word to use in this specific example.
Bridgette
01-11-2007, 03:32 AM
Come on DW. You don't work in a club, never have. Stop acting like you know it all.
As for the issue of how to word the "no sex" thing. I don't just flatly say "no sex". I say it in my goofy way, so it's more of a light funny thing than a "you ain't getting SHIT, asshole" thing. Ya know? Agreed there is a way to say it, and then a WAY to say it ;)
Jenny
01-11-2007, 05:02 AM
in·ti·ma·cy [ íntəməssee ] (plural in·ti·ma·cies)
noun
Definition:
1. close relationship: a close personal relationship
2. quiet atmosphere: a quiet and private atmosphere
3. detailed knowledge: a detailed knowledge resulting from a close or long association or study
4. private utterance or action: a private and personal utterance or action
5. sexual act: a sexual act or sexual intercourse ( often used euphemistically )
Yes, PD, sometimes the word "intimate" is used to connote a physical act, but then you have to look at context (the same way we do to tell the difference between all words with multiple meanings or homonyms). If you were using the words to described a physical act, you would not say that "something" is more intimate - you would say (for example) that "we will be intimate" or "we are being intimate". When you are describing a thing as being intimate, well... "an intimate candlelit dinner" - you clearly aren't fucking the dinner. So saying a room is more intimate - you are not fucking the room. If I remembered my parts of speech I could explain this more adequately, but her use of the word was not one that strongly implied the euphemistic sexual use. Personally - okay, I realize that managers don't generally care about dancers, but the only times I've ever seen managers return money, or enforce the return of money are in pretty egregious circumstances (like the customers pays for half an hour, and the dancer takes off after 5 minutes.) Which is why I asked if she was SURE that was all she said, or if she is editing a little for us.
Bridgette - my personal favourite is "oh, hell no. Then I'd be all stretched out and leaking cum when I went on stage." But, you know. I'm classy.
Kaylinn
01-11-2007, 05:07 AM
As for the issue of how to word the "no sex" thing. I don't just flatly say "no sex". I say it in my goofy way, so it's more of a light funny thing than a "you ain't getting SHIT, asshole" thing. Ya know? Agreed there is a way to say it, and then a WAY to say it
Yup ;D
Adelina
01-11-2007, 05:32 AM
Jenny, I didn't edit anything. I used the exact words DW suggested. I think in this particular situation, the manager was too scared to loose the customer, plus I remember the guy saying something like he was going to bring a group of 20 people to the club, and after "this kind of treatment" he wouldn't (the conventioneers rarely hit the same club twice, they are in town for a few days, so the want to see as many places and check out as many T&As as possible, don't you think so?), still I guess the manager would do about anything to keep the customer happy. I don't think the manager believes that what I said to the customer was wrong, he just wanted to SHOW the customer that he thinks my words were wrong. I would be on the loosing end in the sitation anyways. Still, isn't it shitty to know that you can get in trouble any time for anything no matter how careful you are in your choice of words and actions?
And now this guy and his friends feel it's even more ok to act like assholes without getting punished for it, and they don't even have to pay! The easier it is for a guy to get away with shit like this, the higher is the likeness that he'll be spreading this kind of behaviour in other clubs, don't you agree? And the more of other guys may catch these "asshole germs"!
DancerWealth
01-11-2007, 09:12 AM
Come on DW. You don't work in a club, never have. Stop acting like you know it all.
I don't "know it all" and yet I know I'm right on this topic. I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that "intimate" means having sex? I don't get it. Sorry Bridgette. I may not wear 8" heels and yet I really do know I'm right on this topic. This was a BS situation where the customer was clearly in the wrong and the club supported it. I don't have to be a dancer or have worked a day in a club to recognize that obvious fact. I think your solution to the issue, by stating clearly there is no sex in the VIP room is a great solution too. It's not an either/or world Bridgette, it's an "AND" world.
evan_essence
01-11-2007, 10:39 PM
Yes, PD, sometimes the word "intimate" is used to connote a physical act, but then you have to look at context (the same way we do to tell the difference between all words with multiple meanings or homonyms).Um, that's exactly the point. The subject line and the original post states the phrasing. "We'll have more privacy and intimacy." Intimacy in the stated context could very reasonably be interpreted to mean sex. I'm sorry but you can't argue that it doesn't mean that when that's exactly why we use it in the first place, to connote it. We're hoping the customer interprets it exactly that way, or otherwise we wouldn't choose that word in the first place. If that's not so, there's a simple solution to all of this. How about let's simply agree to drop use of the word in all its forms and substitute something clearer? If it's not deliberately meant to connote the potential for sex, then alternate wording should pose no drawback. "We'll have more privacy and informal warmth of a personal nature."
I do, however, think that you have to DO something to engender this belief; a simple "well, it's more private" I don't think does this.And I don't disagree with that, but when you do, be prepared to be called on it once in awhile. I'm only pointing out that it's disingenuous to claim it isn't reasonable to interpret intimacy as what you meant it to connote. You win some, you lose some.
-Ev
evan_essence
01-11-2007, 11:23 PM
The way I see it, it's like a cocaine dealer selling someone powdered sugar and the customer goes to the police wanting their money back or cocaine instead and the forces the coke dealer to give the money back. It's insane.A more apt comparison would be the case of Wal-mart being chided by an advertising review board for using the advertising slogan, "Always the low price. Always." It's a phrase that appears to have been intentionally designed to connote something that it doesn't say explicitly. It connotes that Wal-mart always has the lowest price. We know that can't possibly be true, and we also, if we're not careless readers, note that the slogan doesn't explicitly state "lowest." However, the connotation arises from the phrasing, the context of the statement, and the use of the word "the" in a grammatical context that is not standard usage. "The" would normally modify "lowest price" since there's only one lowest price. It makes no literal sense to pair "the" with low price. Standard usage would be to say "a low price" or "low prices" since there are numerous low prices. It's reasonable to conclude that some slick advertising flack chose the juxtaposition of "the" and "low price" to connote "the lowest price" without explicitly saying it. In other words, the intent was most likely deliberate deception. Wal-mart ultimately changed the slogan to "low prices," exactly what it should have been in the first place.
In similar fashion, Publishers Clearing House was pursued for telling people "You're a winner when you return the winning numbers." Instead of "if you return the winning numbers." Connoting that this envelope has the winning numbers but not explicitly stating it. Again, phrasing deliberately designed to deceive by its lack of clarity.
My point here being that language is full of connotation, not just explicit meaning. Connotation is used to imply more than the explicit meaning. Sometimes in an effort to make subtle nuances clearer and sometimes in an effort to obfiscate by ambiguity. It's as much a part of the meaning as a formal dictionary definition.
-Ev
Bridgette
01-12-2007, 05:36 AM
I mean DW, this kind of "I know I'm right" thing is annoying. Practically every damn HH thread has some long-winded "I am the god of stripper sales" post by you. A lot of us are getting sick of it. I'm just the only one with balls big enough to say it in public.
There.
Miss Jessica
01-12-2007, 05:45 AM
F*ck no, that's not cool. He was waaay out of place. >:(
DancerWealth
01-12-2007, 07:58 AM
I mean DW, this kind of "I know I'm right" thing is annoying.
There.
Okay, so then on the topic of this thread then, you are stating your opinion that "intimacy" = "Sex" then? You kind of lost me. If that's your opinion, that's fine. I just don't understand your point here. And in case you need some reminding, this forum is about SALES and how other people can help other people about SALES. I happen to be someone who knows more than a little bit about this topic...way more than most. While I absolutely concede the fact that I have never worn 8" heels, have never dealt with some obnoxious, grabby customer or a scumbag manager etc., I do know sales. The topic of this thread is regarding a sales topic in case you were not aware (the use of the term "intimacy"), and so I gave my opinion on the matter and I still believe that I am right on this matter. If you have a different opinion, then that's fine. State it. That's the beauty of an open forum. If you don't like my approach, that's fine too. Believe it or not Bridgette, not eveyone likes yours either. It doesn't mean we have to insult you about it though. So if you think I'm sounding a bit pushy on advice...okay, I'm aware of that and I promise to tone it down a bit. Fair enough.
Jenny
01-12-2007, 08:29 AM
Um, that's exactly the point. The subject line and the original post states the phrasing. "We'll have more privacy and intimacy." Intimacy in the stated context could very reasonably be interpreted to mean sex. I'm sorry but you can't argue that it doesn't mean that when that's exactly why we use it in the first place, to connote it. We're hoping the customer interprets it exactly that way, or otherwise we wouldn't choose that word in the first place. If that's not so, there's a simple solution to all of this. How about let's simply agree to drop use of the word in all its forms and substitute something clearer? If it's not deliberately meant to connote the potential for sex, then alternate wording should pose no drawback. "We'll have more privacy and informal warmth of a personal nature."
Okay - I never use the line myself because I'd feel like a tool, plus I am always very direct and upfront about the whole "no sex in the VIP room" thing. I would suggest, however, that you can use a word like "intimacy" because it sounds sexual, without promising sex. Last night I told a customer that if he bought dances he would HAVE to sexually touch me (the context of the comment being that he had no choice); I choose those words because they are funny and direct, but also because they sound sexual and (I hope) enticing. So "sexual touching" CAN involve sex but I don't use the phrase because I'm trying to make them think they are going to get sex, but because it sounds kind of sexy. If that makes sense. The same way a different type of dancer might say "Some girl is lucky to have to you" to say that she thinks he's be a swell boyfriend is not really saying that she is going to be his girlfriend. You have to make SOME room for banter.
Further, when I said context, I think I meant more of a technical use than the physical surroundings of the club. That's why I said I could explain better if I remembered my parts of speech. Saying "we'll have more intimacy" is not the same as saying "we'll be more intimate".
And I don't disagree with that, but when you do, be prepared to be called on it once in awhile. I'm only pointing out that it's disingenuous to claim it isn't reasonable to interpret intimacy as what you meant it to connote. You win some, you lose some.
-Ev
Okay I agree on the getting "called on it" - I'm still not sure that this particular use of the word "intimacy" promises sex. Like if she had said that in the VIP they would have an "intimate candlelit dinner" (I know, that would be a weird club, but it's the only phrase using the word "intimate" that leaps to mind) I don't think you could argue that there was even an implicit promise of sex. I think the way "intimate" is used in a sentence rules how it can be interpreted, not just the fact that it was said in a strip club. Like I said - I think we agree that deliberately misleading the customers is problematic, and I for one, don't really blame a guy who has been explicitly or implicitly promises sex, pays his money and then doesn't get it for being pissed - and I wouldn't blame a manager for backing him up, since that is, for all intents and purposes, defrauding the customer; I just don't know if THIS is an applicable case. So I think we have agreement on a general principle, just not on how to apply it. We could have a framework convention with this. This is an excellent start.
Bridgette
01-12-2007, 08:57 AM
::) I never once thought everyone loved my opinions or advice DW. I also don't write huge lengthy posts trying to show or imply that mine is/are best. You do. Believe it or not, I'm NOT the only one who feels this way. People have grown tired of the constant and lengthy DancerWealth Knows All About Stripper Sales ads in here.
Furthermore, I have to say that although some of your advice may be useful, for the most part, it's not that good. Frankly, there's nothing you can tell a stripper about how to do this job that an experienced STRIPPER can't tell as well or BETTER. What we're selling just is NOT the same as a car, house, boat, seminar, etc. What in the HELL makes you think you could ever know as much or more than any experienced stripper about how to strip???
Sorry for going off topic. This has been bothering me for a while.
DancerWealth
01-12-2007, 10:04 AM
I think we agree that deliberately misleading the customers is problematic, and I for one, don't really blame a guy who has been explicitly or implicitly promises sex, pays his money and then doesn't get it for being pissed - and I wouldn't blame a manager for backing him up, since that is, for all intents and purposes, defrauding the customer; I just don't know if THIS is an applicable case. So I think we have agreement on a general principle, just not on how to apply it. We could have a framework convention with this. This is an excellent start.
I think this is the point I was trying to make. I always believe that mis-leading customers, in any sales industry, is a horrible idea for countless reasons. A lot of sales though is using finesse in communication without ever crossing the line into being fraudulent. While I completely agree that the word "intimate" can be viewed in different contexts, I also think that this customer would have bitched if any other word was used too like "private", "quiet" etc... So, this being said, I actually think adopting the policy of making it very clear with a customer that no sex will take place should be made very explicit with the customer after the sale is closed so as to prevent this situation from happening again (see Bridgette, I agree with you! :) ). There is an old saying, Powerful communicators take responsibility for BOTH sides of the communication.
Bridgette
01-12-2007, 10:10 AM
Why would you wait until AFTER the sale is closed to tell the guy he's not gonna get laid in the vip? Seems to me the best policy would be to let him know up front, that way there's no room for bullshit.
I would also agree with you on this one DW, that this particular customer would have bitched NO MATTER WHAT. Also, I'd bet my eyeteeth when he was blabbing to the manager about bringing 20 guys or whatever it was the next night, he was totally bullshitting just to pressure the dumbass manager. What's more, I'd even venture that this guy has probably done this type of thing before - figured out that if he bitches enough to these spineless managers, many times he'll get some or all of his money back. Jerkoff.
DancerWealth
01-12-2007, 10:28 AM
Furthermore, I have to say that although some of your advice may be useful, for the most part, it's not that good. Frankly, there's nothing you can tell a stripper about how to do this job that an experienced STRIPPER can't tell as well or BETTER. What we're selling just is NOT the same as a car, house, boat, seminar, etc. What in the HELL makes you think you could ever know as much or more than any experienced stripper about how to strip???
You're wrong here. You just are. Selling lap dances IS the same thing as selling cars, or houses, or seminars, or real estate, or clothes. It's funny how every single expert on sales in the universe agrees on this but you don't. Such is life. I don't teach dancers anything about dancing. Clearly I have no way to have any experience or knowledge in this area nor do I ever pretend to be an expert in this area. This is why I have a partner who IS an expert in this area and it is she that gives this advice, not I. This being said, I do know sales...I'm an expert on it. I teach it in a variety of different forms and have for over ten years now. Sales is sales Bridget, whether it's done in a 3-piece suit or in a g-string. Sales is sales.
Bridgette
01-12-2007, 10:30 AM
Uh huh. I'm not the only stripper who thinks that's a crock of shit. That's life.
And, keep on saying how right you are, how much of an expert, how you know it all. But keep trying to say you DON'T say those things. LOL
You know what others have said about you? That you act like some god. ugh
DancerWealth
01-12-2007, 10:52 AM
You know what others have said about you? That you act like some god. ugh
...and that's their prerogative. I'm not a god, nor do I claim to be the end-all-be-all of sales knowledge. I learn things on a daily basis...literally. As a wise Buddhist teacher once said, "We teach what we most need to learn." I do, though, know a lot about the topic of sales. I'm not saying this arrogantly, I'm saying this confidently. Numerous times I have made statements in the HH and have been offered counterpoints and have changed my opinion when presented with a better one.
So, back on topic please...
Bridgette
01-12-2007, 10:58 AM
It comes off arrogantly. And yeah, you generally present yourself as the end-all-be-all. It's part of your hustle.
DancerWealth
01-12-2007, 11:02 AM
Fair enough. I appreciate what you're saying...I really do. I promise to mellow-out more about this in the future starting right now. Thanks for your input...it's sincerely appreciated.
cinammonkisses
01-12-2007, 11:06 AM
I think this is the point I was trying to make. I always believe that mis-leading customers, in any sales industry, is a horrible idea for countless reasons. A lot of sales though is using finesse in communication without ever crossing the line into being fraudulent. While I completely agree that the word "intimate" can be viewed in different contexts, I also think that this customer would have bitched if any other word was used too like "private", "quiet" etc... So, this being said, I actually think adopting the policy of making it very clear with a customer that no sex will take place should be made very explicit with the customer after the sale is closed so as to prevent this situation from happening again (see Bridgette, I agree with you! :) ). There is an old saying, Powerful communicators take responsibility for BOTH sides of the communication.
See, my problem with this entire thread is that you constantly preach (in HH and in your HSC) about seling VIP/Champagne rooms by using the words "intimate, more private, getting to be alone" You also make it a point to sell on emotion and NOT logic. In the post above, you said that you should make it very clear that no sex will be involved after the sale is closed. Isn't that bouncing the customer back into reality that this is just a sale, just a dance, and that you have no emotion to this at all??
Bridgette
01-12-2007, 11:07 AM
Shit, if I'd have known it'd be that easy, I'd have said something a long time ago. LOL!!
DancerWealth
01-12-2007, 11:35 AM
See, my problem with this entire thread is that you constantly preach (in HH and in your HSC) about seling VIP/Champagne rooms by using the words "intimate, more private, getting to be alone" You also make it a point to sell on emotion and NOT logic. In the post above, you said that you should make it very clear that no sex will be involved after the sale is closed. Isn't that bouncing the customer back into reality that this is just a sale, just a dance, and that you have no emotion to this at all??
Okay, let me clarify my thoughts on this. First, virtually all buying decisions are made first on emotion and then backed up by logic. Think about that for a minute. This applies all the way from buying that pack of gum in the supermarket near the checkout all the way up to a car or house. You aren't buying that house because it has good tiles on the roof, you're buying it because it has a comfortable living room, nice looking cabinets in the kitchen, etc. You aren't buying that car because it gets superb gas mileage, you're buying it because it's fun to drive. One of the reasons the Prius sells so good is not JUST because it gets good gas mileage, it's because it's really a great car to drive. Two friends of mine have them and they tell me all the time that even if the car wasn't a hybrid, they probably would still have bought the car.
So understanding this, there are times where the logic portion of the equation does need to come into play. Ultimately, there is going to be a dollar amount discussed and some other "rules of the game" as well. It's all about timing though. In other words, when a customer asks you, "So, what's the VIP Room all about", answering by saying, "It's $100 for three songs, $300 for a 1/2 hour or $500 for an hour. You have to buy a bottle of champagne for $200 and also, there's no sex allowed in there." is not the right approach. Rather you should sell it first, close it second, then discuss the rules after the fact while you are on the way. So what I would suggest is something like this:
- Customer inquires as to the VIP room info.
- Dancer sells based on emotional triggers and of course, never imply or suggest sex or inappropriate behavior in any way. Great things to say are, "It's more intimate in the VIP room...it's not so hustle-bustle like it is out here on the floor." or "In the VIP room, it's more quiet and private so there won't be all these guys sitting around us while I give you an absolutely awesome set of dances" and so on and so forth.
- Customer either shows closing signs and you close the deal or he offers resistance. You can play with that resistance and close the sale or opt for another sale or move on to the next customer. Assuming you close the sale though and money has not been discussed, this is the perfect opportunity. So if he says he's interested, use this for an upssell..."Awesome, would you prefer to go in just a few songs or would you rather spend a bit longer in there for a more extended period of time like a half hour?" Depending on what he gravitates to, explain the specifics at that time...the last part of your presentation. Once a price is agreed upon and the sale is finally closed, cover the last minute details such as the obvious no-sex policy or any other laws or club rules as they apply. There are ways to soften the blow a bit so it doesn't seem so harsh, mind you. Saying "just so we're clear, you're not going to screw me back there" is perhaps not the best approach on this if you get my drift. Make sense?
Bridgette
01-12-2007, 05:35 PM
You're wrong here. You just are. Selling lap dances IS the same thing as selling cars, or houses, or seminars, or real estate, or clothes.Sorry. I just can't help responding to this one. This statement of yours shows just how much you don't know about our business. Men buy from us because they LIKE us, because there's something about our appearance and/or personality that appeals to them. NO amount of lines or techniques will EVER convince a guy who's not interested in us to buy from us. PERIOD. The ONLY reason ANY sales technique EVER works for us is because THE GUY WAS ALREADY INTERESTED AND LIKED THE GIRL IN THE FIRST PLACE. We can sit there all day long spewing every sales line in the book, and it's NOT going to change the mind of a guy who's not interested in us.
In regular sales, you CAN change someone's mind about a particular product by using good sales techniques. I've done it and I know you have too. Hell, it's how most salespeople make their living.
The fact that so many girls here have said the same thing: that nothing in your course dramatically improved their earnings is proof. And don't even try to say that it's because they didn't apply it right. Come on. If the information is that good they won't have to "apply it right" to see great improvements in their earnings.
There is simply NOTHING like experience to teach a girl how to make money in this business. Why do you think so many of us girls, when responding to someone's question, preface it with "you'll have to try things and see what works for you"??? Because, ultimately, a line is only a line if it doesn't fit that girl's stripping personality. She can come here for advice and get a variety of suggestions, and then take what works best for HER. In other sales, a person can use specific techniques and they don't have to "fit" the salesperson to work. In our business, it needs to "fit" the stripper (AND the guy has to be interested in her already) to really work.
And while I'm on a rant. A whole lot of what you teach (here anyway, since I haven't taken the course) is just not practical for the SC. If we use those LONG lines you often teach here, we'll lose the guy before we even get half of it out of our mouths. An SC is loud and distracting, with lots of eyecandy walking around constantly and a customer's attention span is short. We need to get the point across QUICKLY or we lose the guy's attention and hence, his money. Since you continually teach using very long responses, that tells me, once again, you don't really understand much about how this business works.
A guy may be interested in me right now, but if I can't get him sold pretty quickly, another girl who appeals to him may walk by and cause me to lose his attention. The biggest thing we need to know is how to spot a guy who's interested in us and then hold that guy's attention and get him sold before he gets too distracted. We don't do that with sales lines, we do that with our feminine wiles - something that's not learned in a sales course. And guess who can help a girl perfect THAT the best? An experienced stripper! Sometimes, a CUSTOMER can help with suggesting what works for him too. Or perhaps even a waitress or DJ or floorman or manager who's seen certain things work (although their perspective will be too limited to be greatly helpful, they can sometimes give some good hints). But not some dude who's never even worked in a strip club. Sorry.
Now, don't get me wrong. I don't begin to think I know everything there is to know about stripping and making money as a stripper. But there is no way in hell that any sales course is as valuable TO A STRIPPER as what I or any other experienced stripper knows. Just, NO WAY. And for the record, I am NOT the only girl here who thinks so.
cinammonkisses
01-12-2007, 06:26 PM
Sorry. I just can't help responding to this one. This statement of yours shows just how much you don't know about our business. Men buy from us because they LIKE us, because there's something about our appearance and/or personality that appeals to them. NO amount of lines or techniques will EVER convince a guy who's not interested in us to buy from us. PERIOD. The ONLY reason ANY sales technique EVER works for us is because THE GUY WAS ALREADY INTERESTED AND LIKED THE GIRL IN THE FIRST PLACE. We can sit there all day long spewing every sales line in the book, and it's NOT going to change the mind of a guy who's not interested in us.
In regular sales, you CAN change someone's mind about a particular product by using good sales techniques. I've done it and I know you have too. Hell, it's how most salespeople make their living.
This is so true. Men come into the stripclub for women and for lapdances. I don't care what you say but Men like what they Like! I rarely have met a man who honestly doesn't have a preference. All men have a preference whether they think they do or not.
For example: If you're a guy who has a preference for beautiful, sensual, busty women with curves..that's what you're on the prowl for. Now lets say a petite, bubbly, 95lb chipper stripper sells you on why you should get a dance with her. After hearing all of her sales tactics you know what will happen, he'll still TURN HER ASS DOWN. That's because she is not what he wants. That little petite dancer will not/cannot turn him on the way that busty dancer that he just craves can!
cinammonkisses
01-12-2007, 06:30 PM
Once a price is agreed upon and the sale is finally closed, cover the last minute details such as the obvious no-sex policy or any other laws or club rules as they apply. There are ways to soften the blow a bit so it doesn't seem so harsh, mind you. Saying "just so we're clear, you're not going to screw me back there" is perhaps not the best approach on this if you get my drift. Make sense?
So then what is the best approach? See, now we're going back into the emotional aspect. How can you tell someone they can't have sex w/o having sex WITHOUT ruining the moment? You said to soften the blow, but with what words??
DancerWealth
01-12-2007, 07:35 PM
Sorry. I just can't help responding to this one. This statement of yours shows just how much you don't know about our business. Men buy from us because they LIKE us, because there's something about our appearance and/or personality that appeals to them. NO amount of lines or techniques will EVER convince a guy who's not interested in us to buy from us. PERIOD. The ONLY reason ANY sales technique EVER works for us is because THE GUY WAS ALREADY INTERESTED AND LIKED THE GIRL IN THE FIRST PLACE.
You know, I just wrote a very lengthy and drawn-out response to this and deleted it a minute later. It's just worth arguing with you and I'm fine with the fact that you have a different opinion. Let's just leave it at that. My experience is different than yours and I'm not willing to continue arguing about it.
Bridgette
01-12-2007, 07:39 PM
Not worth it? Because I might have a point perhaps?
AlexxaHex
01-13-2007, 04:01 AM
*gets popcorn and reads intently*
I can't wait to see how this pans out. }:D
StrayStripper
01-13-2007, 11:31 AM
You're wrong here. You just are. Selling lap dances IS the same thing as selling cars, or houses, or seminars, or real estate, or clothes. It's funny how every single expert on sales in the universe agrees on this but you don't. Such is life. I don't teach dancers anything about dancing. Clearly I have no way to have any experience or knowledge in this area nor do I ever pretend to be an expert in this area. This is why I have a partner who IS an expert in this area and it is she that gives this advice, not I. This being said, I do know sales...I'm an expert on it. I teach it in a variety of different forms and have for over ten years now. Sales is sales Bridget, whether it's done in a 3-piece suit or in a g-string. Sales is sales.
Oh, you did not go there. Dancing is not entirely sales. Customers choose us because they LIKE us. They don't TRUST us, and they shouldn't. They won't. Even if we don't rip them off (in their minds), the club will. You say to build TRUST, but I don't know of a single healthy friendship that is based on lapdances.
PS I was intimate with my bf a few days ago. By intimate I (obviously) mean sitting in a room, chatting, and holding flutes of bubbly. Every now and then I seductively removed my clothes and as he brought his hand toward me, I screamed NO TOUCHING.
Why is your partner an expert? Didn't she retire after, like, 3 years at 25?
DancerWealth
01-13-2007, 11:55 AM
Why is your partner an expert? Didn't she retire after, like, 3 years at 25?
The woman you are referring to, Jamie, worked in the business for several years and routinely had record sales results in each and every club she worked in whether it was in Mississippi, Vegas, or any of the other clubs she worked. While she always did well working as a dancer, it was not until after she came through our course that her sales went through the roof. When we met, my then partner, Mandy, left the company to persue her deams working on the road for Cirque Du Soleil and being that I always wanted to have a woman's perspective with what we do, Jamie was the perfect person to help me with the program. Jamie has since moved-on with her life and now resides in California where she is working in the real-estate industry, quite successfully might I add. Being that she is not in Vegas, it made it very difficult to operate our business together. She and I are still friends and she is very happy with her life. The woman I am currently working with, Leonor, is one of the brightest people I have ever met when it comes to business and creative thinking in this industry. She is currently still dancing and has a pulse on this industry unlike any woman I have ever seen. She is brilliant personified.
Regarding the trust/like issue, it's not just one over the other. It's a very complicated weave between the two. While it is obvious that being liked is extraordinarily important to making sales, so is trust. Every amount of research in and out of this industry has proven that.
Bridgette
01-13-2007, 02:35 PM
LOL! Let's hear some specifics about this Jamie then. How many years, from when to when, which clubs and cities, etc, did she work? And how much did she make? If you worked that closely with her you ought to know these things. At least more specific than "several years", "record sales", "through the roof" or "each and every club". It's ok to post these specifics about her because no one knows who she is, so it's not gonna cause her any trouble.
You're using too many of what's called "glittering generalities" and not enough concrete details. That seems to be your favorite method - well, that and using emotional appeals (again, instead of specifics) to 'sell' us on your story.
miabella
01-13-2007, 04:26 PM
i suspect this is partly an ethnic thing, but i disagree that customers cannot be diverted from their preferred type of dancer to buy from a dancer that isn't their type. i sold to guys who preferred blondes, who preferred latinas, who preferred tall girls, who preferred giant boobs, etc. of course i am none of these things. and a lot of dancers who don't look like either a classic stripper trope (pam anderson style blonde) or something rare and/or sought after (redheads, 'acceptable' ethnic looks like japanese or india-indian, etc) have in my little experience had to make a living changing minds in order to leave the club with anything.
i know i would have starved if not for all the guys who said to me 'i don't get dances from girls like you' or 'you're the first (black/short/small boobs) girl i ever got dances from'. or all the club regulars who bought dances from their types 7-8 times of ten and from me the other times.
i think the changing minds works to a lesser extent in sexwork vs other sales, but i don't think one can claim it never works or works so rarely as to be useless.
on that note, i remember a dancer posting that DW's seminar was good for getting extra dances from guys who were already sold. like, it would help turn 2 dance guys into 5 dances guys, would help turn 30 min VIPs into hourlong ones, and so forth. which i thought was interesting at the time.
Jenny
01-13-2007, 05:19 PM
^^^
I have too, but I don't think I do it through sales techniques. I think I do it by being unusually amusing (which is a technique in a way, but not one that anyone here espouses to teach).
Bridgette
01-13-2007, 05:36 PM
^^Well, I'm not saying no guy will ever buy a dance from a girl who doesn't fit his specific "type". Of course they do, sometimes. But she has to have *something* he likes and no amount of "sales" is gonna make him change on that. Guys don't buy dances from girls they don't like. They just don't.
StrayStripper
01-13-2007, 05:51 PM
i think the changing minds works to a lesser extent in sexwork vs other sales, but i don't think one can claim it never works or works so rarely as to be useless.
on that note, i remember a dancer posting that DW's seminar was good for getting extra dances from guys who were already sold. like, it would help turn 2 dance guys into 5 dances guys, would help turn 30 min VIPs into hourlong ones, and so forth. which i thought was interesting at the time.
Provided that you provided the expected contact, decent conversation, and he has the money, you can get another hour or dance by asking.
"Another?"
"Let's stay!"
"I'm not done with you." *wink, wink*
"Shall we go again?"
And other variations. But remember, this only works if you are the customer's idea of good entertainment. If you aren't, that's okay. Customers have preferences, just as you do.
Most strippers will tell you this for free. FREE! A $6000 value!
StrayStripper
01-13-2007, 05:57 PM
Regarding the trust/like issue, it's not just one over the other. It's a very complicated weave between the two. While it is obvious that being liked is extraordinarily important to making sales, so is trust. Every amount of research in and out of this industry has proven that.
What research? Real Sex VIII? 20/20? 60 minutes? Oprah? Tyra?
GoldCoastGirl
01-14-2007, 08:23 AM
Okay. I am so closing this thread. I had a nice lengthy response typed out however I do not want to add fuel to the fire and Bridgette for some unknown reason has moved on from attacked Love Kitten Lingere to now DancerWealth.
*sigh* This is a text based forum and thus you can only perceive what is meant by a message posted here at all times. Due to the fact that you are missing tone of voice and body language which are both primary method of communication used by the human animal in order to communicate with words being secondary........... take a step back. Try not to read too much into anything posted by anyone here as it is a text based medium.
It's like me typing "You bloody little bastard" .......... unless you heard me tone of voice and saw my body language you wouldn't really know if I am meaning those words in jest or as an insult.... do you? so hence the reason this thread is now closed.
I AM MY OWN PERSON AND AN INDIVIDUAL BTW ! *sigh*