View Full Version : Flag ban an 'insult' to Aussies
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 02:17 AM
I get what you're saying. It's just that it's irrelevent in the whole picture. It's just your opinion...oh, and it's only been a few hours, not a day.
No matter what the context people are using it (the flag), the fact still remains that this is a rule that affects all. Why should i (and other Aussies) be held accountable for others fuck ups?
ok so instead of protecting a possibly violent situation, fuck it.
take your flags. if you get stabbed, shot or beaten up, dont complain to the organisers. if it triggers a bigger situation (such as cronella) well, thats ok too. cos at least you got your flag aye.
no fuck that.
i would hate to see some kid innocently killed cos they had an aussie flag in volitile situation. it might be a rule that effects all, but, um they have other rules there too set in place for peoples safety- like the no glass bottles. does that piss you off as well?
why do you care anyways, your not even going to be there?!
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 02:23 AM
Firstly, life happens.
True. I won't be there. I still consider myself Australian though, and all my family and friends still live there.
This is a matter of ethics.
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 02:25 AM
Sigh. Yes it does and so it should, no-one here disagrees with you.
Please refur to my post about The Union Jack.
And yes in this thread the issue is about white racists. Last time I checked no other groups had adopted the Aussie flag to promote non-white racism.
Most the posts on this thread imply that!
The Australian flag does not stand for "white" Australia. It stands for Australia. That's my point entirely.
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 02:33 AM
And yes in this threat the issue is about white racists. last time I checked no other groups had adopted the Aussie flag to promote non-white racism.
Yet still, these people are given the power to adopt and imply thier own agenda with the Aussie flag... What the Fuck?
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 02:40 AM
/:O
I think this is getting a bit off topic now.
Yet still, these people are given the power to adopt and imply thier own agenda with the Aussie flag... What the Fuck?
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 02:41 AM
ok so instead of protecting a possibly violent situation, fuck it.
take your flags. if you get stabbed, shot or beaten up, dont complain to the organisers. if it triggers a bigger situation (such as cronella) well, thats ok too. cos at least you got your flag aye.
So, some kids get beaten up at school for wearing glasses...should we ban glasses?
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 02:43 AM
/:O
I think this is getting a bit off topic now.
Um, this is the topic!
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 02:53 AM
Chalk and cheese.
I wish the racists would just have the balls to wear swastikas actually. it would make this debate much easier.
So, some kids get beaten up at school for wearing glasses...should we ban glasses?
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 02:53 AM
Lol, well I dont think it is :)
Um, this is the topic!
Madcap
01-22-2007, 03:02 AM
Catfight! Can we at least get some mud or oil or something? :D
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 03:10 AM
Lol, is not much of a fight. I must say.
Speaking of cat fights and The Big day out though, I did slap a guy, shove him a few times and pull his hair at the Big day out yesterday ;-D
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 03:14 AM
Where was it yesterday?
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 03:14 AM
Catfight! Can we at least get some mud or oil or something? :D
No such luck for you sweety :D
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 03:18 AM
Gold Coast. It was a scortcher of a day!
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 03:21 AM
Gold Coast. It was a scortcher of a day!
Was it good though?... i'm jealous. my friends band was going to play, but they didn't get on the bill this year :(
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 03:32 AM
Well it wasnt the best festival Ive been to but party because of various hasstles about getting there and who I was with at first. It was still fun and a good atmosphere and a great day overall. The Violent Femmes were great and I really enjoyed Crystal Method. I missed a few things I wanted to see though.
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 03:38 AM
I'm still jealous :)
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 03:48 AM
Lol, well Im jealous of all the travelling youve done, I would swap you if i could (-:
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 10:12 AM
Had to share. I found it on myspace. Someone suggested that Australian Muslim women attending the BDO should do this. It wasn meant nicely I believe, though i have no idea where the pic came from originally. ;D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/Jowanna/CHASER_WOE_VOL_1_DISC_1-00hr12min00.jpg
VenusGoddess
01-22-2007, 12:13 PM
that's rediculous! Next the cross will be a gang sign.... I wonder how that'd go over ::)
Well, it is...really. No joke. A gang is a group of people/organization that bands together to bully other people.
With the way the christian/baptist/other religious groups have been attacking anything/everything that they don't agree with and doing it with fevor...I would classify the cross as a gang symbol. ;D
Jenny
01-22-2007, 02:17 PM
Most the posts on this thread imply that!
The Australian flag does not stand for "white" Australia. It stands for Australia. That's my point entirely.
Honey, the entire point is that the flag as been co-opted as is being used as a symbol of race hatred. I think what you are trying to argue is that maybe nobody should surrender to that co-opting (co-option?); that is a valid argument, but instead the way you are arguing is sounds like you are simply denying that that it CAN be co opted and used in the way described, or alternatively, like it is "no big deal" and everyone should just suck it up. We all KNOW that symbols - yes even flags - can be co opted and used for purposes other than positive, inclusive nationalism - the example of the Union Jack is a good one, and for that matter, go back to the Swastika - arguing that the swastika was originally an Indian symbol is not a particularly potent argument for allowing neo-nazis to display it at government events.
Just stepping in as a translator.
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 03:02 PM
It can be co opted to be any symbol that one wants really. I just think that it's stupid to give any power whatsover to these tools. Racist idiots are everywhere. Why don't we ban symbology altogether?
I don't think anyone should suck it up. If i was on the end of racial hatred, I'd fight.
Why should Australians suck it up, and do without thier flag on Australia Day?
I understand why the BDO is banning the flag, I just believe it is unreasonable on Australia Day.
Jenny
01-22-2007, 03:20 PM
It can be co opted to be any symbol that one wants really. I just think that it's stupid to give any power whatsover to these tools.
Well see that is the thing - saying that you don't think they should accept the co option is difference from saying that there is no co option.
I think you have a bit of a faulty idea of what co-opting means though; I can put up an Australian flag in my living room and declare that to me it represents Finland. However, considering the fact that nobody else, let alone anyone in my immediate vicinity, shares that viewpoint and that it is not a contentious issue that is prone to violence, there will unlikely be riots. Generally when we say something has been "co-opted" we mean that the symbology is under real attack; that the representation in question is real, although not necessarily universally agreed upon. In this scenario, that is the case. Because the flag is (unfortunately or not) affiliated and representative of a bunch of people (a very, very vocal minority, one hopes) who use it to mean "My country, not yours" the other symbology (what you might think of as the "real" symbology) is contentious. When racial tensions in a city are unusually high I think it says something about those who refuse to cooperate to diffuse them, but that is just me.
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 04:20 PM
When racial tensions in a city are unusually high I think it says something about those who refuse to cooperate to diffuse them, but that is just me.
I think this attitude is short sighted and presumptous, but that's just me.
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 04:26 PM
I think this attitude is short sighted and presumptous, but that's just me.
it makes sence to me. only a racist would want to do something they know will fuck with the racial tension.
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 04:34 PM
it makes sence to me. only a racist would want to do something they know will fuck with the racial tension.
Wow, just wow. That is retarted.
So beacuse i want to fly my flag at an event on Australia Day, knowing that some may take offence, I'm a rascist?
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 04:38 PM
Wow, just wow. That is retarted.
really?
so wearing a white sheet over you dressed as kkk, isnt insighting racial tension and violence?
taking a flag to use as a racial insult to immigrants, isnt insiting racial tension when its already there?
*wonders is misha has an issue with lebonese or other races, or if she just thinks its ok to see kids beat up and/or killed over racial tension steming from cunts taking flags etc to bdo*
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 04:40 PM
Wow, just wow. That is retarted.
So beacuse i want to fly my flag at an event on Australia Day, knowing that some may take offence, I'm a rascist?
no, your wanting to fly the aussie flag in defiance to the fact that you cant take it.
this whole thing has nothng to do with australia day, the sooner you figure that out the better.
(or maybe this thread should just get locked? we can only explain something over 3 pages once!)
TheSexKitten
01-22-2007, 04:40 PM
Ease up on Misha here folks.
I can't imagine the American flag being banned on the 4th of July. There would be riots, and everyone would poke fun and relish at how fascist America has become.
This whole thing reminds me of when red and blue shoelaces got banned at my middle school. ::)
Assholes should be punished, but it's the NATIONAL FLAG. There are assholes in the US I'm sure that wear the flag to be jerks to the immigrants we have, as I'm sure there is in every country.
But sheesh.
TheSexKitten
01-22-2007, 04:43 PM
really?
so wearing a white sheet over you dressed as kkk, isnt insighting racial tension and violence?
taking a flag to use as a racial insult to immigrants, isnt insiting racial tension when its already there?
*wonders is misha has an issue with lebonese or other races, or if she just thinks its ok to see kids beat up and/or killed over racial tension steming from cunts taking flags etc to bdo*
Wow, you're getting really out of line.
Dressing like KKK isn't illegal, at least here. However, dressing like the KKK has ONLY discriminatory purposes, whereas the flag has more than one, and most people wave their flag for good reason.
Misha GETS WHAT YOURE TRYING TO SAYYYYYYYYY
OMG
we can only explain something over 3 pages once!)
she's just making her own points, and she's entitled to her own opinion. God damn!
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 04:44 PM
why is everyone missing the point!!!
its not the flag being banned per se. its the flag at ONE event - no one is making you go. its a choice. and its only because there has been racial tension and violence used in relation to the flag and a few rednecked cunts.
australia is NOT banning the use of the flag in any other enviroment on any day.
its about not having a mass riot or fight at bdo fuelled by the flag and drugs/alcohole.
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 04:45 PM
really?
so wearing a white sheet over you dressed as kkk, isnt insighting racial tension and violence?
taking a flag to use as a racial insult to immigrants, isnt insiting racial tension when its already there?
*wonders is misha has an issue with lebonese or other races, or if she just thinks its ok to see kids beat up and/or killed over racial tension steming from cunts taking flags etc to bdo*
What does the kkk have to do with it?
You are way out of line (and exteremely stupid) to imply that i am rascist. You are also way out of line (and again, stupid) to imply that my flag is a kkk symbol.
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 04:46 PM
Wow, you're getting really out of line.
Dressing like KKK isn't illegal, at least here. However, dressing like the KKK has ONLY discriminatory purposes, whereas the flag has more than one, and most people wave their flag for good reason.
Misha GETS WHAT YOURE TRYING TO SAYYYYYYYYY
OMG
she's just making her own points, and she's entitled to her own opinion. God damn!
no its not illegal there, why? cos america is politically just as ignorant of cultures and as racist as australian governments.
sure shes entilted to her own points, but its all going around in circles.
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 04:48 PM
What does the kkk have to do with it?
You are way out of line (and exteremely stupid) to imply that i am rascist. You are also way out of line to imply that my flag is a kkk symbol.
i wasnt implying the flag as kkk. i was implying that the usage of a white sheet (soemthing common, people also use white flags as a symbol of distress etc etc etc ) can also be used as a very negative racial prop. sure no one is banning a white sheet, but its HOW its used thats a problem
TheSexKitten
01-22-2007, 04:48 PM
why is everyone missing the point!!!
No one is missing the point, could you please finally understand this?... but it's like having a banquet and not allowing silverware. Kind of necessary for eating eh?
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 04:49 PM
No one is missing the point, could you please finally understand this?... but it's like having a banquet and not allowing silverware. Kind of necessary for eating eh?
a flag is not needed at a music festivle.
TheSexKitten
01-22-2007, 04:51 PM
no its not illegal there, why? cos america is politically just as ignorant of cultures and as racist as australian governments.
sure shes entilted to her own points, but its all going around in circles.
No, because the US constitution protects the right to free speech and public demonstrations, whether it be nazis or anti-war protesters or civil rights activists. As long as no one is inciting violence, it's all game.
To pick and choose who gets rights is fascist.
TheSexKitten
01-22-2007, 04:51 PM
a flag is not needed at a music festivle.
On Australia Day. In Australia.
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 04:57 PM
i wasnt implying the flag as kkk. i was implying that the usage of a white sheet (soemthing common, people also use white flags as a symbol of distress etc etc etc ) can also be used as a very negative racial prop. sure no one is banning a white sheet, but its HOW its used thats a problem
So unless you are suggesting that we should ban white sheets beacuse of how they're being used, you're making my point.
So thank you, i'm glad to see you've come around :P
TheSexKitten
01-22-2007, 05:01 PM
The racism and the use of the Aussie flag is disheartening, but I agree with Misha that it shouldn't be flat out banned.
Like when France banned all religious symbols from schools. (Crosses, yarmulkas sp?, and headscarves, and I guess buddhas and what not.)
Lysondra
01-22-2007, 05:09 PM
I think the point is actually one: nobody actually BANNED it.. they just said it would be a good idea not to have it. No banning was actually done.
Two: it was suggested nobody WEAR it or have a LARGE flag... because of the race riots.
Three: Small, personal flags are okay.
TheSexKitten
01-22-2007, 05:09 PM
D'oh!! :D:D:D
Ok then. You win.
Lysondra
01-22-2007, 05:11 PM
Oh, it wasn't against you... it was this entire thread... I noticed that mermaid kept saying people wearing it were horrible race-rioters but I was noticing Misha kept saying she just wanted to wave her flag.
Wearing and waving are two different things.
I think that's where this argument started.
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 05:13 PM
Well then :D
TheSexKitten
01-22-2007, 05:14 PM
Oh, I know you weren't saying it specifically to anyone, but I thought it was funny because I think we all had our facts jumbled up. And we got so crazy.
Yekhefah
01-22-2007, 05:16 PM
Wow... :O
As a Southerner, I can sympathize with Misha.
http://www.appliedlanguage.com/flags_of_the_world/medium_flag_of_australia.gif = http://www.capitolflags.com/images/confederate-rebel-small.gif
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 07:03 PM
Lol, thank fuck someone pointed that out! There are stalls at the BDO incidently where you can get Aussie flag tattoos. This is about wearing big flags which incidently may be the norm at sporting events but hasnt really been BDO standard dress in previous years.
Pictures from last years race riots in Cronulla. The story and more here. One photo looks like people at a concert, but theyre cheering the violence not a band.
I think the point is actually one: nobody actually BANNED it.. they just said it would be a good idea not to have it. No banning was actually done.
Two: it was suggested nobody WEAR it or have a LARGE flag... because of the race riots.
Three: Small, personal flags are okay.
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 07:14 PM
Surely you get the point then? Although I think the stories behind the two flags you posted are rather different.
I know neo-Nazis who get the whole point of this. (Not that Im comparing you to one!) But Im fairly sure theyre aware that one or two people wearing swastikas can probably get away with it, 20, 40, 100, 10000 theres going to be trouble. (Although of course they might think thats a good thing ;D )
Wow... :O
As a Southerner, I can sympathize with Misha.
http://www.appliedlanguage.com/flags_of_the_world/medium_flag_of_australia.gif = http://www.capitolflags.com/images/confederate-rebel-small.gif
Yekhefah
01-22-2007, 07:22 PM
I was agreeing with Misha's point that the problem isn't flags or white sheets, it's the *FEW* people who use those symbols for completely unrelated viewpoints who are the problem. And then for no good reason, the flag gets blamed. First it was the Dixie flag that people started calling "racist" even though it isn't, and now Australia's flag is getting the same treatment.
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 07:31 PM
I think everyone here agrees that its the racists that are the actual problem not the flag. However obviously the flag comes into the picture currently. If you have people wanting to bash those they dont see fit to wear it on both sides, best just to avoid the situation. Smashed heads arnt pretty.
As pointed out again its not all flags, just the large ones.