View Full Version : Flag ban an 'insult' to Aussies
Lysondra
01-22-2007, 07:38 PM
I want to point out that if a foreigner wore a flag in some instances with Aussies (probably like this one) like you said they should - you'd get beaten.
I was told it would be 'wrong' of me to get a tattoo of the Southern Cross when I became a citizen.
Even if you're Australian, you're not... Australian.
BUT.. it's definitely the people, not the flag.. and how they're presenting it.
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 07:42 PM
Thats the point - non-white Australians have been bashed for doing this already. One of the examples at the race riot was a guy who was born here wearing Australias colours green and gold with the boxing Kangaroo emblem he was bashed anyway for not having the right skin colour. People have been bashed and told they're not Australians and dont deserve to wear the flag even though they may be 2nd or third or more generation.
Its just the waving and wearing of the huge flags that the organisers are concerned with since there is still alot of tension on both "sides" in Sydney. See the photos i posted earlier. I think they dont want that situation of hundreds of people waving the flag and telling groups of other people to fuck off for what ever reason. The violence works both ways with one group saying "This is ours you cant have it" and the other group going "Fuck off this is ours too!" The BDO is supposed to be a music and fun event, they want to keep it that way thats all. As i said before riots start so easilly and they're pretty scarey if you're caught up in the middle.
Big flags at music events have NEVER been the norm here. people are getting their knickers in aknot about nothing. If the bdo had said last year "please dont bring big flags to the BDO." Everyone would have said "WTF - who the hell takes big flags to the BDO anyway!"
But.
That IS rather the point. I'm a Southerner too, but I can understand why some people might be offended by the Confederate Naval Ensign there. There are lots of places where I wouldn't wear one; there's no place in the US where I would consider it inappropriate to wear or display the US flag.
It's your national flag. It's the symbol of ALL Australians. The only way a small racist minority can "co-opt" the flag is if the rest of the country lets them. Instead of being offended and insulted when they see people wearing/waving the flag, why don't non-white Australians just do the same thing. It's their flag too. Display it an let the other fuckers know you're not allowing THEM to define who is a proper Australian.
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 07:46 PM
I agree with you. Its just the factors of alcohol, drugs, sunshine, youth, a sticky situation and so on. From an organisation point of view they dont want trouble for reasons i poited out earlier. This is really about common sense. BDO is a buisness, they dont want problems especially ones which can effect the future of the event.
Quite honestly dress regualations are nothing new at concerts.
I want to point out that if a foreigner wore a flag in some instances with Aussies (probably like this one) like you said they should - you'd get beaten.
I was told it would be 'wrong' of me to get a tattoo of the Southern Cross when I became a citizen.
Even if you're Australian, you're not... Australian.
BUT.. it's definitely the people, not the flag.. and how they're presenting it.
Lysondra
01-22-2007, 07:55 PM
You know it runs along the same lines of 'African American', meaning black. Last I checked, most black Americans weren't citizens of Africa as well!!
My point is: It's so 'politically correct' to call people something they're not. You can't just call them 'American', can you?
So even if someone was generations ago from America or England.. they're not Aussie, are they?
My partner's mum is still a Brit, even though she has citizenship. I'll always be considered a bloody Yank here. Black American's will always be African.
I think it's something in the human race. We can never fully accept something from outside as being 'ours'... no matter how long it's been here.
(And I KNOW someone had to have called YOU 'African American', huh Aussie?... and you're British Australian!)
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 08:07 PM
Lol, when asked I say Im English / Afro-Carribean. I have never been to Africa or the Carribean but both are important parts of my roots and what i feel. I think the whole African thing is very important for a lot of slave descendants. Its a black thing you know (-:
I doubt I will ever be accepted as fully being Australian by everyone, but I doubt I will ever feel fully Australian either. We're all citezens of the world, pity so many people are trying so hard to proove that one place or bunch of people is better than the next when there are far more better things to be wasting time on :)
You know it runs along the same lines of 'African American', meaning black. Last I checked, most black Americans weren't citizens of Africa as well!!
My point is: It's so 'politically correct' to call people something they're not. You can't just call them 'American', can you?
So even if someone was generations ago from America or England.. they're not Aussie, are they?
My partner's mum is still a Brit, even though she has citizenship. I'll always be considered a bloody Yank here. Black American's will always be African.
I think it's something in the human race. We can never fully accept something from outside as being 'ours'... no matter how long it's been here.
(And I KNOW someone had to have called YOU 'African American', huh Aussie?... and you're British Australian!)
GoldCoastGirl
01-22-2007, 08:50 PM
I have not read all the replies here. Obviously no one bothered to read my OP and see the link to the Big Day Out website and only read the media.
Here is a quote direct from the Big Day Out site:
Contrary to the reports in the media, it was never our intention to disrespect the symbolism of the Australian or any other flag.
We are not banning the Australian flag but are simply discouraging its use for anti-social purposes at the Big Day Out.
We state unequivocally that flags will not be banned at any Australian Big Day Out show in the foreseeable future.
In recent times, there has been an increased incidence of flags brandished aggressively and this has led to increased tension. Our only intention in discouraging this activity at the Big Day Out is to ensure that our patrons are not subjected to this aggressive behaviour.
With all this in mind and the aim to create a happy, peaceful MUSICAL event, organisers would like to request that fans please leave their flags at home.
The Big Day Out is not an Australia Day event, but a music festival showcasing music artists from around the world and aspires to unify people through music.
Oh also.. everyone... get your facts straight.. once again IF YOU HAD VISITED THE ACTUAL BIG DAY OUT SITE WHICH I DID POST IN MY ORIGINAL POST ... you will have noted that the Sydney event happens THE DAY BEFORE AUSTRALIA DAY
AUSTRALIA DAY IS JAN 26TH EVERY YEAR. The Sydney BDO is Jan 25th.
Oh my god! This thread is so :laughing: funny to me. No one bothered to read the BIG DAY OUT website ... and if you had... a great majority of this thread would not have happened! :laughing:
Lysondra
01-22-2007, 08:55 PM
I have not read all the replies here. Obviously no one bothered to read my OP and see the link to the Big Day Out website and only read the media.
Here is a quote direct from the Big Day Out site:
Contrary to the reports in the media, it was never our intention to disrespect the symbolism of the Australian or any other flag.
We are not banning the Australian flag but are simply discouraging its use for anti-social purposes at the Big Day Out.
We state unequivocally that flags will not be banned at any Australian Big Day Out show in the foreseeable future.
In recent times, there has been an increased incidence of flags brandished aggressively and this has led to increased tension. Our only intention in discouraging this activity at the Big Day Out is to ensure that our patrons are not subjected to this aggressive behaviour.
With all this in mind and the aim to create a happy, peaceful MUSICAL event, organisers would like to request that fans please leave their flags at home.
The Big Day Out is not an Australia Day event, but a music festival showcasing music artists from around the world and aspires to unify people through music.
Oh also.. everyone... get your facts straight.. once again IF YOU HAD VISITED THE ACTUAL BIG DAY OUT SITE WHICH I DID POST IN MY ORIGINAL POST ... you will have noted that the Sydney event happens THE DAY BEFORE AUSTRALIA DAY
AUSTRALIA DAY IS JAN 26TH EVERY YEAR. The Sydney BDO is Jan 25th.
Oh my god! This thread is so :laughing: funny to me. No one bothered to read the BIG DAY OUT website ... and if you had... a great majority of this thread would not have happened! :laughing:
Well, we did just say they weren't banned... however, if you had taken the time to read the replies...
:P
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 08:57 PM
vee, thats what we were trying to say... it was really only one person who isnt even in the freaking country who got up in arms about it. the rest of us were tryinf to re-iliterate what was said in the above statement.
im suprised this thread is even still going!
all the points have been made, and its time to agree to disagree
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 08:58 PM
Ahem, I read the BDO website before posting, I think others may have too judging by some of the comments and such. I think all my posts are relevant to that and other peoples too. Perhaps you should have read all the replies rather than assuming wrongly? (-: However I didnt bother to take note of the date, I assumed Id got the date wrong when everyone else started talking about Australia Day.
I have not read all the replies here. Obviously no one bothered to read my OP and see the link to the Big Day Out website and only read the media.
Here is a quote direct from the Big Day Out site:
Contrary to the reports in the media, it was never our intention to disrespect the symbolism of the Australian or any other flag.
We are not banning the Australian flag but are simply discouraging its use for anti-social purposes at the Big Day Out.
We state unequivocally that flags will not be banned at any Australian Big Day Out show in the foreseeable future.
In recent times, there has been an increased incidence of flags brandished aggressively and this has led to increased tension. Our only intention in discouraging this activity at the Big Day Out is to ensure that our patrons are not subjected to this aggressive behaviour.
With all this in mind and the aim to create a happy, peaceful MUSICAL event, organisers would like to request that fans please leave their flags at home.
The Big Day Out is not an Australia Day event, but a music festival showcasing music artists from around the world and aspires to unify people through music.
Oh also.. everyone... get your facts straight.. once again IF YOU HAD VISITED THE ACTUAL BIG DAY OUT SITE WHICH I DID POST IN MY ORIGINAL POST ... you will have noted that the Sydney event happens THE DAY BEFORE AUSTRALIA DAY
AUSTRALIA DAY IS JAN 26TH EVERY YEAR. The Sydney BDO is Jan 25th.
Oh my god! This thread is so :laughing: funny to me. No one bothered to read the BIG DAY OUT website ... and if you had... a great majority of this thread would not have happened! :laughing:
GoldCoastGirl
01-22-2007, 08:59 PM
There is 5 pages of replies and I'm tired so I couldn't be bothered. ;)
Anyway, it is done. I only posted about it because I thought it would be interesting news for the Americans on the site. I was laughing when I saw both Today Tonight and A Current Affair devote time to this whole thing... it is so laughable. The BDO states on their website they aren't banning the flag yet the media is going on and on about it being banned.
THEY need to read the BDO website :laughing:
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 09:05 PM
vee.... can you read your own thread title? lmfao
"flag BAN an 'insult' to Aussies"
rofl :)
GoldCoastGirl
01-22-2007, 09:09 PM
I used the headline the article on news.com.au used. Like I said, it is the MEDIA that needs to read the BDO site in the end :laughing:
I was posting the article as I thought it was interesting what the media were doing when the BDO website states it isn't banning the flag...
vee.... can you read your own thread title? lmfao
"flag BAN an 'insult' to Aussies"
rofl :)
Oh.. btw... the article the link in the OP points to on news.com.au is NOT the same article that was there yesterday... how interesting they changed it ... even the headline of it... damn!
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 09:24 PM
nice idea, ugly flag
Lysondra
01-22-2007, 09:33 PM
That's a stupid idea.. simply because of how fast flags and nations change.
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 09:38 PM
yeah fully, but it would be cool if there was some type of unified flag. without sounds like too much of a hippy of course..lol
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 09:53 PM
I
Oh also.. everyone... get your facts straight.. once again IF YOU HAD VISITED THE ACTUAL BIG DAY OUT SITE WHICH I DID POST IN MY ORIGINAL POST ... you will have noted that the Sydney event happens THE DAY BEFORE AUSTRALIA DAY
AUSTRALIA DAY IS JAN 26TH EVERY YEAR. The Sydney BDO is Jan 25th.:
Oops...my bad :-[ Up until this year the BDO in Sydney has been held on the 26th. Australia Day!
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 09:55 PM
vee, thats what we were trying to say... it was really only one person who isnt even in the freaking country who got up in arms about it. the rest of us were tryinf to re-iliterate what was said in the above statement
Tell me...what does my geographical location have to do with anything? Is ths site only for those in Australia?
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 10:02 PM
Tell me...what does my geographical location have to do with anything? Is ths site only for those in Australia?
um, no its the fact that you were the one going on and on about australia day. and making a huge fuss over nothing... 1- you wernt going anyways 2- you arent in the country
i tried telling you it had nothing to do with australia day, did you listen? no.
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 10:07 PM
Sort of I suppose but flags and nations change and still I doubt all people would feel represented even if people could get past some of the flags being on there in the first place.
Of course I prefer this one. However when you see alot of these together you know the rioting potential is high ;D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/Jowanna/37698250671.jpg
nice idea, ugly flag
Nautilus
01-22-2007, 10:18 PM
this is the best example of arguing apples and oranges i've seen in a long time. 5 pages of it. the sky is BLUE!!! no. no. the ducks are FLYING!!!
1. BDO has been subtlely reminded by the premier and the PM to pull its head in. it has done so. (hence the webpage update)
2. those little idiots who started the problem will still be idiots on the day if the mood strikes, irrespective of flag size, because sydney's problems are deeper and older than all this.
play nicely or i'll have to separate you two!
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 10:18 PM
um, no its the fact that you were the one going on and on about australia day. and making a huge fuss over nothing... 1- you wernt going anyways 2- you arent in the country
i tried telling you it had nothing to do with australia day, did you listen? no.
True, yet you failed to correct me that the BDO in Sydney was no longer on Australia Day.
and still...what exactly does my geographical location have to do with what is right or wrong?
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 10:21 PM
it has nothing to do with you being right or wrong.
its more that i fail to see how someone totally unaffected by this decision would make such a big deal about it. your not going to bdo, and your not here for aus day anyways.
mountain < molehill
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 10:24 PM
This is the longest discussion Ive ever had online I think, lol!
Oh yeah, Im also going to assume that Im the only person in the discussion who has anything close to rioting experience, being in one or near one etc. Not that it makes my point more relevant or correct. It just seems that the whole safety and good time issues are being ignored. And hopefully I have nothing else to add, lol!
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 10:27 PM
it has nothing to do with you being right or wrong.
its more that i fail to see how someone totally unaffected by this decision would make such a big deal about it. your not going to bdo, and your not here for aus day anyways.
mountain < molehill
It's not a matter of me being right or wrong, as i stated before it's an ethical matter.
As i said before.... My family and friends are still in Australia. I am still Australian. Not that this is really even relevant, a topic was posted and i replied.
This is just stupid.
Lysondra
01-22-2007, 10:29 PM
Mermaid, I can kinda see where Misha is going with this last bit... you're here saying how Australian's should be united and people are making race riots.. and then you say she shouldn't even care because she's not in the country - even though she's Australian.
It kinda suggests you're doing exactly what they're trying to prevent.
I mean, Misha's not in Australia, so she's not even Australian any more, is she?
Not saying that's what you meant, but that's how it's coming across.
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 10:34 PM
lillith, your an aweosme mediator :)
im shit at explaining what i mean, and i deinfatly dont mean misha doesnt deserve to care about whats going on here at all, im just confused at the effort shes gone to to make this a bigger deal then it needed to be given that her being overseas means it isnt actually going to directly affect her.
it may affect her family sure, but what about the opposite- her lil brother gets beaten up ina race riot stemming from the flag being used improperly?
argh. that paragraph took way too much thinking. and i probably still explained it in a way that looks like im attacking her. i give up.
mermaidnz
01-22-2007, 10:36 PM
This is the longest discussion Ive ever had online I think, lol!
Oh yeah, Im also going to assume that Im the only person in the discussion who has anything close to rioting experience, being in one or near one etc. Not that it makes my point more relevant or correct. It just seems that the whole safety and good time issues are being ignored.
ive never been in a riot,except for a drunken non racial one of looting years and years ago. but my best mate was killed due to gang violence, and im over seeing the gang thing in aussie.
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 10:42 PM
Fuss? Oh ok ::)
aussiepunkshocker
01-22-2007, 11:13 PM
I fucking hate gang violence, or violence generally, its so pointless at the end of the day! Sorry to hear about your friend thats so sad.
In England I attended a few demos in the 80's (mostly peace marches funnily enough) parts of which erupted into mini riots, I think one or two were quite out of control but not in the area where I was - were talking of demos sized from 100,000 people to half a million. Thank fuck I was never caught up in it, but its scarey to see how crowds move and how quickly something peaceful can turn into utter chaos and those poor people caught up in the middle.
In Britain rioting was fairly common in the 70's and 80's you get to hear alot about it and tactics and tips - from both sides, lol.
When i got arrested I wasnt actually rioting as far as i could tell but was with a group who were identified as doing suck. my charges later got dropped ;)
ive never been in a riot,except for a drunken non racial one of looting years and years ago. but my best mate was killed due to gang violence, and im over seeing the gang thing in aussie.
Lysondra
01-22-2007, 11:19 PM
I wish things were like they were when I was an ignorant child. My best friend was black and I didn't even know until someone told me. It never even occurred to me her skin colour was different or that, even more obtuse to me, it could be considered a bad thing. She wasn't black... she was just my friend.
Certainly we were all like this as children until someone told us it should be otherwise? I never met a single child who refused to play with the kids of a different race until someone else told him it was different and/or wrong.
What happened to the days, as a child, when we didn't even notice?
What happened to the days when your worst crime was eating the last cookie?
... sometimes I wish I never grew up. Because then I could just pretend that my friend was my friend and nobody hated us for what we represented. Equality.
MishaBliss
01-22-2007, 11:29 PM
^^^
Growing older sucks :(
GoldCoastGirl
01-23-2007, 12:41 AM
It's the old nature / nuture thing. We are who we are by nature (biology) as well as nuture (environment - society etc telling us this and that) however point taken Morr. It did seem much easier to exist as a child.
Doesn't mean you can't indulge your inner child every so often. It is a healthy thing to do these days. I know it has saved me quite a few times.
ok.. so I totally de-railed my own thread :laughing:
Lysondra
01-23-2007, 12:43 AM
^^Tomorrow I'm going to a friend's house to play with her new baby ducks and eat cookies...
... who's in?!
aussiepunkshocker
01-23-2007, 12:57 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I have. I was one of about 10 black people in my home town England, other kids notice!
When I was 7 we had a new girl come to our school /my class. She didnt know what to make of me for the first day and was too scared to come near me or speak to me. She went home and told her mum there was a strange looking girl at school and she didnt know what to do. Her mom worked out that I was black and told her to talk to me the next day. We became really good friends. Years later she told me the story - she'd literally never seen a black person before and had no idea people with non-white skin existed. Her mum was also totally cool and stuck up for me on a couple of occasions when kids gave me shit.
I like differencies anyway, people should appreciate them not try to be blind to them. :)
I never met a single child who refused to play with the kids of a different race until someone else told him it was different and/or wrong.
.
GoldCoastGirl
01-23-2007, 01:07 AM
Well, there is a time and place for accepting differences as well as trying to make sure that they stand out (as in you want to be unique). If you get me? No?
I'm still de-railing my own topic .. damnit lol!!!!! :laughing:
Lysondra
01-23-2007, 04:40 PM
I went to far as to ask a community when it was the first time they learned about racism.
Every single situation involved either being demeaned themselves... or someone telling them. It was ALWAYS the majority being told... and the minority learning it the hard way.
Huh.