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View Full Version : all right, homeopathic ladies, how do I get rid of herpes?



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Mastridonicus
02-03-2007, 07:29 PM
So she's looking to cure an condition she has. Who gives a shit? Why tell her what she already knows? Seems to no more effort to wish her good luck.

I fail to believe any of you wouldn't look to defy the odds if something similar or worse happened to you or a loved one.

Good luck.

Sirona
02-03-2007, 07:35 PM
So she's looking to cure an condition she has. Who gives a shit? Why tell her what she already knows? Seems to no more effort to wish her good luck.


No offense Mast but WTF?

I think it would be unethical and flat out shitty to give anyone false hope or misleading information. I don't think anyone's intent is to be a douchebag and make her feel like shit or wants her to not heal herself if it were possible.


I fail to believe any of you wouldn't look to defy the odds if something similar or worse happened to you or a loved one.

I'm speaking for myself, you couldn't be farther from the truth.

Mastridonicus
02-03-2007, 07:40 PM
I'm not always right sirona, I just don't think anyone's giving her false hope, she's stated multiple times she's fighting against the current. She knows it's not doable.

*shrug* My grandfather is paralyzed from the shoulders down. been that way since his mid twenties. He's had a great life, and despite many experts and doctors telling him otherwise (including my own father), he's tried procedures to help walk again. His answer to why was "Why not?". He knows he'll never cure it, but he still tries. Been doing it for 20 years.

But seriously? It's really out of my realm.

I just wish her luck is all.

Sirona
02-03-2007, 08:20 PM
I'm not always right sirona, I just don't think anyone's giving her false hope, she's stated multiple times she's fighting against the current. She knows it's not doable.

*shrug* My grandfather is paralyzed from the shoulders down. been that way since his mid twenties. He's had a great life, and despite many experts and doctors telling him otherwise (including my own father), he's tried procedures to help walk again. His answer to why was "Why not?". He knows he'll never cure it, but he still tries. Been doing it for 20 years.

But seriously? It's really out of my realm.

I just wish her luck is all.

As do I. I would love for her to find something that'd cure it. The thing is there are WAY too many people who take advantage of folks looking to cure the uncurable and I would much rather see her avoid something like that.

Sirona
02-03-2007, 08:23 PM
Just an afterthought... in the grand scheme of things herpes really isn't that big of a deal. If anything it's inconvenient. It's more a societal thing than anything else. You don't see people freaking out over cold sores, chicken pox or shingles the way they do about genital herpes even though they're all pretty much the same thing.

Bridgette
02-03-2007, 08:46 PM
Mast, WTF?? ::) I didn't read fancygirl's posts as saying she understands it's incurable. I read them as saying she wants to beat the odds - we are simply saying these odds won't be beaten, they can be dealt with but not 100% beaten. Not a damn thing wrong with a little reality. AND that it's really not such a big deal. As a wise old soul once said, "herpes is like the common cold of STDs" ;D


It should also be noted that finding some treatment to suppress outbreaks is NOT a cure. Again the word "cure" is constantly misused. The fact you don't have outbreaks doesn't mean you can't still pass it to others - you can. Don't mistake being outbreak-free for months or even years as being cured.



That's why they always compare new treatments to placebos. The question is always: "Does this treatment work better than a placebo?" Which implies, doesn't it, that placebos work reasonably well. I always thought the reason they say "studies showed it works 98% better than placebo" was just saying it works better than nothing, because isn't a placebo really....nothing, treatment-wise? Of course to the general public I'm sure that "better than placebo" sounds cool and makes a good selling line, but I never took that line as implying that placebos might actually work - just that their treatment is better than no treatment.

CC_Mist
02-03-2007, 08:59 PM
I have heard that olive leaf extract can be quite helpful for herpes. I have never used it nor do I have herpes but it might be worth a shot to look into.

Here is a link:
http://www.eastparkresearch.com/

Mastridonicus
02-03-2007, 09:47 PM
You win bridgette.

Nicolina
02-03-2007, 11:53 PM
I always thought the reason they say "studies showed it works 98% better than placebo" was just saying it works better than nothing, because isn't a placebo really....nothing, treatment-wise? Of course to the general public I'm sure that "better than placebo" sounds cool and makes a good selling line, but I never took that line as implying that placebos might actually work - just that their treatment is better than no treatment.

All I'm saying is that "the placebo effect" is a well-known phenomenon. If you take 100 people with headaches and give each one a sugar pill, some percentage of them are going to feel better and attribute it to the pill. Why did the headache go away? Well, maybe it would have gone away anyway. Or maybe it had something to do with the belief that the pill would work. Or maybe there was some other reason. Lately there have been some studies to determine if there is a physiological basis for the placebo effect. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is.

Researchers compare new treatments to placebos because they know that if you give someone a pill and tell them it will make them better, they will very often feel better. True, you can call it "nothing," because it is--but it seems to have something to do with the belief that the pill will work. So you have to make sure that the new treatment works better than "nothing," because "nothing" seems to actually work pretty well sometimes--as long as you make the patient believe that "nothing" is "something."

Does that make any sense?

fancygirl
02-04-2007, 02:24 AM
I want to say that I commend your optimism. It is normal to engage in "bargaining" after finding out bad news. You believe that if you change your behavior or find the right herb, you'll be able to cure Herpes. Eventually, you will get to the acceptance stage, where you'll be able to live with the diagnosis.

Try googling Kubler-Ross' Stages of Grief model. Hopefully this will help.

-shakes her head-

thanks, however I got this last summer. I pretty much accepted that I had it forever. There are things in alternative medicine that I'd like to explore. Next time, read the whole thread because it's responses like yours that piss me off.

What is wrong with experimenting with alternative meds? What is also wrong with people's reading comprehension that they can't understand that I want ideas not fucking pat answers. I'm not an idiot, I realize it's a long shot, but since I'm supposedly going to have it my whole life why NOT fuck around with possible ways to kill the virus? -shakes her head again- imbecile.

fancygirl
02-04-2007, 02:29 AM
I read them as saying she wants to beat the odds - we are simply saying these odds won't be beaten,

once again, if I'm going to have it the rest of my life why not monkey around with alternative therapy? Something is uncurable right up until it's curable.

the response here has really astounded me. there's been great people, true, but then there's those who ignore a specific request and state multiple times "It CAN't be done." Screw you. Do you think I'm really going to put my entire heart and soul into the first supposed cure and be crushed for the rest of my life? Do you honestly think, as a dancer, I can't afford a couple types of snake oil?

This has nothing to do with me, or understanding my question and all to do with your own arrogance. Do I want to expand my boundaries and cure herpes? Yeah, that'd be great. If not, well I tried. But you guys gets so fucking uppity about even LOOKING it's amazing.

Is this truly the only area where you can assert yourself that you can't just zip it, or start some other thread?




It should also be noted that finding some treatment to suppress outbreaks is NOT a cure. Again the word "cure" is constantly misused. The fact you don't have outbreaks doesn't mean you can't still pass it to others - you can. Don't mistake being outbreak-free for months or even years as being cured.



Guess what? ALREADY KNEW THAT. I knew it before I started this post. If I didn't state that I already knew that, my bad. You still should have zipped your lip-- go tell everyone else this factoid on another thread.

I'm looking for a cure. I'm not looking to cure outbreaks, which I DID say.

Lysondra
02-04-2007, 02:45 AM
I think everyone's main concern is that you may believe you're cured once you find perhaps a false medicine and pass it on to others. Even if it doesn't show in blood tests for five years, you could still be dormant, think you're cured and pass it on. That's how I'm reading it.

christian211
02-04-2007, 06:32 AM
Big hug to you, girl. Although I have also never heard of a cure existing or in the works, however I am not so egotistical and arrogant to never say never. Doctor's are not God (or whomever else may be your spiritual being). Yes, research has proved thus far that there is no cure... blah, blah, blah. There have been many instances of medical miracles and phenomanon(sp) that cannot have not been explained by medical literature.

I think it's also funny how people spend a year or two in school and must force their 'educated perspective' on others. Hello? I'm a bio major and I still say anything's possible.

Keep fighting the good fight, girl. I would check into some of those links that people offered. Can't hurt, can it? Well, I don't know, maybe. Just be careful, don't do any self healing that may seem risky, and take care of yourself.

Sirona
02-04-2007, 07:34 AM
Fancygirl I don't think anyone takes issue with the use of homeopathic medicine or trying to find a cure for yourself. People are worried about your well being and wanting to maybe protect you from being taken in by assholes who pray on people who are looking for that magic pill, so to speak.

PookaShell
02-04-2007, 07:38 AM
Fancygirl I don't think anyone takes issue with the use of homeopathic medicine or trying to find a cure for yourself. People are worried about your well being and wanting to maybe protect you from being taken in by assholes who pray on people who are looking for that magic pill, so to speak.

:yes: Right.

christian211
02-04-2007, 08:58 AM
Fancygirl I don't think anyone takes issue with the use of homeopathic medicine or trying to find a cure for yourself. People are worried about your well being and wanting to maybe protect you from being taken in by assholes who pray on people who are looking for that magic pill, so to speak.

^^ Yes, beware of the assholes. That's what I meant by risky self healing;D

Bridgette
02-04-2007, 10:08 AM
Why such hostility fancy? Sheesh. Your posts here are somewhat contradictory IMO. I'm not being arrogant but if that's the way you want to perceive it then feel free.

My posts here have been directed more to the general public - last thing we need is more people running around thinking there's some miracle cure when all they really get is suppressed symptoms but can still pass the disease to others. There are MANY jerkoffs both online and IRL selling "cures" that aren't cures at all and causing much more harm than good. I would like NOT to perpetuate that.

I also would like to see the social stigma of this particular disease lessened, for selfish as well as unselfish reasons.



Furthermore fancygirl, from reading your posts here I know full well that nothing we say is going to convince you to change your mind. So I wish you luck in your search - I'd wish someone buying lotto tickets luck at the same time I'd advise him/her that the time and money would be better spent on something with better odds. That's just my nature. But you are right - there's no cure for anything until someone finds one and if you find that elusive miracle, you'll deserve all the bragging rights and riches it'll surely bring. So, more power to ya. I'll happily buy your cure if you find it to rid myself of those godforsaken cold sores once and for all and for the relief of never having to worry about passing them to others.



Nicolina, I am aware of the "mind over matter" theory concerning placebos. I just never thought that's what they were promoting in those drug ads. I would've thought that type of sales line would make them seem alot less credible to the general public ;) Also I don't recall ever hearing it promoted for CURATIVE drugs but rather for those that only suppress symptoms...

I am aware of the use of placebos in scientific study though - they have to have something to control the study with. Placebo seems to be the only sensible measure for most cases, for many reasons. But this use as a measuring stick also doesn't strike me as a measure against something else that is known to work, or that this use is any implication in and of itself that placebo really works, since it "works" in such few cases. It just seems like it's being used as a blank measuring stick to me. Any other studies concerning the effectiveness of placebo seem to me as being mere coincidence or an offshoot at best.

blaze_n_hot
02-04-2007, 10:11 AM
-shakes her head-

thanks, however I got this last summer. I pretty much accepted that I had it forever. There are things in alternative medicine that I'd like to explore. Next time, read the whole thread because it's responses like yours that piss me off.

What is wrong with experimenting with alternative meds? What is also wrong with people's reading comprehension that they can't understand that I want ideas not fucking pat answers. I'm not an idiot, I realize it's a long shot, but since I'm supposedly going to have it my whole life why NOT fuck around with possible ways to kill the virus? -shakes her head again- imbecile.



Hun, I'm actually working on my Ph.D right now, so I'm far from stupid. ;) Anger is also a normal part of acceptance. What do you hope to accomplish by snapping at people who are trying to help you?

Nicolina
02-04-2007, 01:44 PM
Nicolina, I am aware of the "mind over matter" theory concerning placebos. I just never thought that's what they were promoting in those drug ads. I would've thought that type of sales line would make them seem alot less credible to the general public Also I don't recall ever hearing it promoted for CURATIVE drugs but rather for those that only suppress symptoms...

I am aware of the use of placebos in scientific study though - they have to have something to control the study with. Placebo seems to be the only sensible measure for most cases, for many reasons. But this use as a measuring stick also doesn't strike me as a measure against something else that is known to work, or that this use is any implication in and of itself that placebo really works, since it "works" in such few cases. It just seems like it's being used as a blank measuring stick to me. Any other studies concerning the effectiveness of placebo seem to me as being mere coincidence or an offshoot at best.

http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/0001546/35/

^Here's a link to a study that suggests that there is a real physical cause for the placebo effect--at least in the case of pain relief. That's what I was suggesting--that faith in a cure can lead to actual physical changes in the body.

I definitely wasn't talking about herpes in particular, just the notion that "a positive attitude"--in general can be helpful in attempting to rid oneself of a disease or its symptoms.

As you point out, drug companies have to test treatments against placebos, because if you just say, "In clinical trials, 30% of patients reported symptom relief," it is utterly meaningless without comparison to a placebo.

Until just now, I was pretty sure that this was because a placebo almost always worked better than actually doing nothing....but here is a link to an article that debunks a study claiming to support and quantify the existence of the placebo effect:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T84-3WDCGTN-1&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F1997&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=cbb7a65cc6735282ce5fd99140a09a53

And I'm sure if I looked around some more, I could find studies refuting that one. So I don't know. It all goes to show that there are still plenty mysteries regarding health and the human brain/body connection. That's all I'm saying. I was looking for a way that, as a science person who is very skeptical of non-conventional medicine, I could still be supportive.

And FTR, I think fancygirl is getting ticked off and lashing out at people who don't necessarily deserve it because this is a pretty emotional issue for her. For obvious reasons. It's not easy to be cool-headed about it. And plus she specifically asked naysayers to stay out of the thread. I could naysay too, but I'm choosing not to.

ViolaStrings
02-04-2007, 03:15 PM
There will be a cure for herpes when medical science discovers a way to cure VIRUSES, which they cannot as of now. Your best hope is to research ways to most effectively supress it.

Yes, people have beaten cancer and debilitating pain when medical science offers no other options, but at this point in human history and knowledge you cannot beat a virus. Period.

You attacked Paige just like you attacked me when I said you might want to think twice about getting your tubes tied in your 20s. You can't seem to disagree with someone in a civil fashion. You make personal attacks when someone is winning an argument.

Katrine
02-04-2007, 06:57 PM
Here's another thing with herpes. Can't it also be passed on from mother to child before the child is even born? I've had blisters as long as I remember, and they are from my mom. However, my father has NEVER had an outbreak, and I've seen him kiss my mom on the face when she had one.

Does he carry the virus after over 30 years of marriage? Possibly. Point is, its a complex beast. I'm just bringing this aspect to the table, not sure if it makes a difference. I would love to find a cure. When I get sick and get a blister, it makes the illness all the more worse!

ViolaStrings
02-04-2007, 07:02 PM
Here's another thing with herpes. Can't it also be passed on from mother to child before the child is even born? I've had blisters as long as I remember, and they are from my mom. However, my father has NEVER had an outbreak, and I've seen him kiss my mom on the face when she had one.

Does he carry the virus after over 30 years of marriage? Possibly. Point is, its a complex beast. I'm just bringing this aspect to the table, not sure if it makes a difference. I would love to find a cure. When I get sick and get a blister, it makes the illness all the more worse!

Do you have oral herpes or cold sores? Isn't there a difference?

Sirona
02-04-2007, 07:35 PM
Do you have oral herpes or cold sores? Isn't there a difference?

Nope. One and the same.

Sirona
02-04-2007, 07:38 PM
Here's another thing with herpes. Can't it also be passed on from mother to child before the child is even born? I've had blisters as long as I remember, and they are from my mom. However, my father has NEVER had an outbreak, and I've seen him kiss my mom on the face when she had one.

Does he carry the virus after over 30 years of marriage? Possibly. Point is, its a complex beast. I'm just bringing this aspect to the table, not sure if it makes a difference. I would love to find a cure. When I get sick and get a blister, it makes the illness all the more worse!

I don't believe it can be systemically passed to the fetus during gestation. Infection would occur during a vaginal birth if the woman is having an outbreak.

The cool thing is if she is infected from the beginning she actually passes the antibodies to the baby making it harder for the kid to catch during vaginal delivery. If the infection occurs (when I say infection I mean initial outbreak/just caught it scenario) towards the end of the pregnancy the chances the baby can catch it are higher.

It's real possible you dad had it and never really had a noticable initial outbreak and it's since been dormant.

LuckiCharm
02-04-2007, 07:48 PM
fancygirl...i dont know if this is gonna be much help but i found a forum for people with herpes...maybe u could go on there and find people who know more about what your looking for or find more encouraging info then you can find here.
http://www.herpesdoctor.com/forum

Lysondra
02-04-2007, 09:51 PM
Well, I guess it's good fancy doesn't want kids... won't pass it on that way...

I'm curious, I get canker sores, I'm pretty sure they're different but now I'm worrying as I've never had a case of cold or herpes sores anywhere or even in my blood... different right?

LuckiCharm
02-04-2007, 10:02 PM
ok im not sure about this...i dunno if i misunderstood...but i had a herpes scare a while back (i posted about it) where i had a false diagnosis for genital herpes at a clinic, so i went to my gyno to get a test done. my test came out positive for oral herpes, but negative for genital herpes. when the doc told me my results, she was pretty much acting like it wasnt a big deal, saying if someone has ever had a cold sore then they would test positive for oral herpes.

Lysondra
02-04-2007, 10:13 PM
^ Are you replying to me? I only get sores when I drink too much orange juice or switch toothpastes.

Katrine
02-04-2007, 10:49 PM
^ Are you replying to me? I only get sores when I drink too much orange juice or switch toothpastes.

Nah, cankers are just ulcers in your mouth from the acidity in OJ, biting the insides of your cheeks, etc. They aren't STD, as far as I know.

This has been a great learning thread for me!

Bella21
02-04-2007, 10:50 PM
Well, I guess it's good fancy doesn't want kids... won't pass it on that way...


It's rare to pass it on to kids. Generally, you have to have an outbreak going on while you're giving birth. Doctors can med you beforehand to suppress it.

Lysondra
02-04-2007, 10:52 PM
Well, yeah, I knew that... but people were bitching about how she can pass it one with kids... and I remember her saying she didn't want any... so I was just pointing it out.

Lysondra
02-04-2007, 10:53 PM
Nah, cankers are just ulcers in your mouth from the acidity in OJ, biting the insides of your cheeks, etc. They aren't STD, as far as I know.

This has been a great learning thread for me!

Nifty... :D That worries me every once in awhile. Haven't had it for a bit, though... I know when I drink too much OJ and I don't switch pastes anymore.. o-o

christian211
02-04-2007, 10:57 PM
It's rare to pass it on to kids. Generally, you have to have an outbreak going on while you're giving birth. Doctors can med you beforehand to suppress it.

True. Two kids here (no herpes) and they do have a way to medicate you directly through the vagina if I do recall correctly, although I wasn't paying too close attention to what my doc was saying. I am pretty sure she said, though, that there was a small chance that the child could still be infected. Don't quote me please, I'm too tired to brush up on this info right now:)

Sirona
02-05-2007, 05:19 AM
Well, I guess it's good fancy doesn't want kids... won't pass it on that way...

I'm curious, I get canker sores, I'm pretty sure they're different but now I'm worrying as I've never had a case of cold or herpes sores anywhere or even in my blood... different right?

You can have an outbreak inside your mouth but it's made up of dozens of cancre type sores, not the usual one or two you get from acidy food etc/

pipermarau
02-07-2007, 07:28 AM
i'm on several herpes help sites and after all my research i've found suppressants and treatments. i've heard stories of goji cures and acids and lotions and herbal pills and right now the best thing to do is treat it and hope for the best.

to kill the virus you have to attack it where it lives which is a tricky thing right now. i can see a cure in the future after much testing and i'll bet there is some herb that can be manipulated to cause the immune system to attack and destroy the virus but it does not exist right now. my beau suggested injecting lsd or acid at the base of the spine because that shit will kill anything, but that is extreme, unsafe, and unlikely to work. i'm with you in the fight and i will always have hope, but it will take time and lots of money. realistically, the topical creams an vitaherbpills only suppress, they do not go into the nervous system where the virus lives and someday someone will find that pill. if the body can kill hpv, why not herpes? we just have not found the right system.

you are getting honest opinions in this thread, roll with it. they are trying to help. take what you can learn from every one and do your best. i'm going through it too. it will be two years this summer for me and i'm still searching. just do what you can and don't take it so personally. mircales happen every day but it may not be in our life time for this one.

*edit* i also would like to point out that i have always tested negative for the virus but have had over twenty out breaks AND gave it to my man after testing clean twice. the man who gave it to me tested clean as well. i have no way of knowing if i am cured or not unless i sleep with people and wait to see if they get an outbreak. how wrong is that??

tootsie
02-07-2007, 07:44 AM
get the book natural cures from kevin trudeau. I personally believe in him. Please don't flame me for it either.

aussie i heard about the zapper! I want to get it!

LuckiCharm
02-07-2007, 09:32 AM
off subject...but if they did find a cure for herpes, theyd be able to find one for AIDs since its also a virus, right? which would be GREAT!

Yekhefah
02-07-2007, 10:10 AM
Drug companies are not looking for cures. They are looking for lifelong treatments. If you're in business to make as much money as possible, are you going to give someone a cure, or an expensive pill they have to take every single day for the rest of their lives?

This is why we haven't had a new antibiotic introduced since the 1970's, even though our bacteria are rapidly becoming resistant to all known antibiotics. The pharmaceutical companies are putting their resources toward long-term antidepressants and allergy meds instead; that's where the money is.

Why should they look for a permanent cure for herpes when they're making a fortune off people who have to take Zovirax and Valtrex for the rest of their lives? And why would they look for a cure for AIDS when they're making a killing off drugs that only keep people alive for as long as they take those drugs?

Bella21
02-07-2007, 11:05 AM
Why should they look for a permanent cure for herpes when they're making a fortune off people who have to take Zovirax and Valtrex for the rest of their lives? And why would they look for a cure for AIDS when they're making a killing off drugs that only keep people alive for as long as they take those drugs?


:( You'd think the individual people who have whatever virus or who have a loved one with it would try! I guess they just can't get it a grant to do it?

JustJayda
02-07-2007, 11:12 AM
:( You'd think the individual people who have whatever virus or who have a loved one with it would try! I guess they just can't get it a grant to do it?

I'd guess it may have something to do with the stupid-ass stigma attached to the disease. Who wants to have "Chairperson of the National Herpes Research Board" attached to their curriculum vitae, if it means admitting you have the condition yourself. Probably not too many folks that are affluent or in the "upper echelon" of society, let alone Suzy Soccer mom.

AlexxaHex
02-07-2007, 01:03 PM
Jayda, that avatar is so freakin hot.:O

lunchbox
02-07-2007, 04:40 PM
She made a simple request. Just sit it out. Is that so hard?

Check this out. (http://www.theage.com.au/news/hivaids/briton-may-be-first-to-beat-hiv/2005/11/22/1132421639573.html)

May be true, may not. But I think this is more of what you were looking for than "can't be done."

http://www.avert.org/stimpson.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1789521,00.html