View Full Version : Dirty Dirty Girls
PookaShell
02-10-2007, 02:33 PM
I see what you're saying, Jenny, and I understand your point. But if we all were unable to rant about something that bothers us because it might offend someone who does it....well there are so many different people on here that everybody is bound to offend someone.
Also it makes a huge difference that we aren't in the same place. The norms are different. If DarcyFoxx went to work in your club (In Canada, right?) then she would be the princess that had a stick up her butt (No offense, Darcy), same as if she were to come to Houston. Our norms ARE hard grinding. Not necessarily as intensely as she described all the time but that's just the way we have to make our money here. That's not normal for her because that's not normal where she works. I have to grind pretty heavily to keep up in Houston, so I see what you mean. But when things come to throw off the balance of the club (in a club like yours or mine - it would be a diva, in a club like Darcy's it would be the girl she described) it throws off our working process, so we wanna bitch about it. I agree we could have more respect in our wording sometimes, but none of us appreciate an extras girl that fucks with our money - and where you and I work this isn't an extra it's expected - but where alot of girls work it is and it hurts their money like a girl fucking in VIP for $50 would hurt my money. Eh...I'm just rambling here, but I get your point about the respect thing - we just all gotta move the bar around to apply to what others' working situation is before we process the message in their post, kinda thing...
Jenny
02-10-2007, 02:51 PM
^^^
Pooka, I get your point, I really do - and as I said, I can't say I've never bitched (usually with me it is about undercharging. Makes me fucking crazy). And I do get the need to complain and I do think that frank and open discussion (including complaints) is good. I actually, in my first post in this thread, specifically tried to re-direct it and re-characterize it as "this girl is working outside the norms of the club" as opposed to "this girl is such a fucking whore." Frank and open does not have to be downright derogatory, especially when (as you mention) you KNOW for damn sure that you are sharing space with girls that you are, essentially, degrading.
I do not think this was the intent of the OP; but my initial "lighter" commentary on the matter was really brushed off, so I wanted to very frankly and honestly make my point - yes, it bothers me when you are characterizing me (albeit indirectly) as whore. I think it is inappropriate and un-collegial and my understanding is that this site in intended to promote solidarity (which is not the same as following a party line) and collegial behaviour. I think that there are other ways to characterize the issue - I'm not saying "just shut up about anything other girls do that bother you". I just don't think there is any need to disenfranchise girls who work (again, as you pointed out) to different norms.
Really, I don't think our positions are that far apart here.
I see what you're saying, Jenny, and I understand your point. But if we all were unable to rant about something that bothers us because it might offend someone who does it....well there are so many different people on here that everybody is bound to offend someone.
Well... there is a difference between someone being offended and someone being irrationally offended. You're right - we work to different norms; there is not reason we cannot acknowledge and be sensitive to that fact WHILE being honest and open. If it turns out that it is, in fact, impossible to be honest and open WHILE being sensitive and respectful to our colleagues - well, at least we'll have tried. And that counts for something.
BTW - I'm not gnashing my teeth in fury over this. I think we all might slip into this kind of behaviour (what we do is neutral; people acting outside of it are the skanks) and it might be good to occasionally remind each other that we, at least here, all in it together.
PookaShell
02-10-2007, 05:44 PM
I know what you mean, Jenny, and I see that we are both pretty much on the same tangent here. I agree that we should narrow down our derrogatory or degrading vocabulary lest it offend someone while it's unnecessary to the point we are making. I was just responding to the "get over it and stop bitching or get another job" kinda comment.
Jenny
02-10-2007, 05:55 PM
It's always so nice when we can come to agreement!
I would never say "get over it or find another job" except in the most egregious of circumstances.
Melonie
02-10-2007, 06:15 PM
It really doesn't apply. Word of mouth is king still in Australia. The internet in that capacity has been under-developed for what-ever reason.
you're probably right ... at the moment ...
dollyrocker
02-10-2007, 09:01 PM
Oh man, I feel for you! Stuff like that goes down in my club from time to time. The other day there was a guy who whipped his dick out and a dirty dancer was grinding all over it. And a few days before my best friend caught some girl FUCKING one of the customers. Keep in mind we have no vip/private booths, etc. so this was all out in the open.
*shakes head*
GoldCoastGirl
02-10-2007, 09:18 PM
you're probably right ... at the moment ...
http://www.stripclublist.com/y.asp?s=QE
As I said. The internet is under-used and the above link just goes to show how under-used the internet is here in the country in re: patrons using it.
Here are the list of clubs listed at the above link that do not exist
SPANK - Surfers Paradise
it has changed name at least twice.. to Hooter and now it's called The Toy Box
Santa Fe Gold - Surfers Paradise
hasn't been in existance for years now and Hollywood Showgirls occupies the spot where this club used to be.. it was literally demolished.
Showgirls - Gold Coast
another strip club that hasn't been in existance for what seems forever. it was the only strip club down in coolangatta.
Club Dynasty - Broadbeach
another strip club that doesn't exist tho' it did at one point ... something completely utterly different occupies that space now...
Bad Girls - Surfers Paradise
even aussiepunkshocker can back me up on how this club hasn't existed and was closed down (turned into something else) quite awhile ago
That is an awful lot of clubs on that list that don't exist....................
if the internet was used as much as it is supposedly used in the US by customers and patrons then all those clubs wouldn't appear on that list and it would be more up 2 date
just look at the Darwin (Northern Territory) section -- http://www.stripclublist.com/y.asp?s=NT -- Honey Pot has been around for a few years now.... where is it listed there?
I hope I have proven my point that word of mouth is pretty much gold in Australian and not the internet.
Darcy Foxx
02-10-2007, 10:44 PM
keep in mind, that in my 4 years dancing experience, i have never had to experience anything even remotely like this before. as a newbie stripper, my boss slammed me with the words "girls who let guys touch them are sluts, and girls who grind are sluts". i was raised into stripping by those exact words and my boss CONSTANTLY reminded us of this and would tell the new girls each and every night about how disgusting and filthy it is. it was what i was taught.
yeah, i might be a little harsh in my criticisms, but i've spent the last 4 years working in a very, very, very clean and tame environment. i have NEVER sat next to a guy while he moaned loudly and spasmed and nearly kicked me with his leg because he just blew in his pants, until friday night, and quite frankly i was so disgusted and sickened that i went into the toilets to cry about it and was considering walking out. the fact of the matter is, i find it offensive. i have not been trained to deal with this, i have been trained to be offended and to find it disgusting. it made me feel physically ill and i refused to sell any more dances because i was so upset about going in there. i turned down a lot of money.
so yes, i'm a diva princess, but that's what i've been taught to be for the last 4 years by clubs and managers that have encouraged and literally enforced the diva princess attitude.
aussiepunkshocker
02-10-2007, 10:57 PM
^^^ I dont think you need to justify your attitude Darcy. Its just a fact here that what happened in your club the other night isnt normal for Australian clubs so of course when it does happen youre going to rant and critisise - we all are.
aussiepunkshocker
02-10-2007, 11:00 PM
Ha, that list is ridiculously out dated and the Sydney link is possibly worse! ;D
As I said. The internet is under-used and the above link just goes to show how under-used the internet is here in the country in re: patrons using it.
Here are the list of clubs listed at the above link that do not exist
SPANK - Surfers Paradise
it has changed name at least twice.. to Hooter and now it's called The Toy Box
Santa Fe Gold - Surfers Paradise
hasn't been in existance for years now and Hollywood Showgirls occupies the spot where this club used to be.. it was literally demolished.
Showgirls - Gold Coast
another strip club that hasn't been in existance for what seems forever. it was the only strip club down in coolangatta.
Club Dynasty - Broadbeach
another strip club that doesn't exist tho' it did at one point ... something completely utterly different occupies that space now...
Bad Girls - Surfers Paradise
even aussiepunkshocker can back me up on how this club hasn't existed and was closed down (turned into something else) quite awhile ago
That is an awful lot of clubs on that list that don't exist....................
if the internet was used as much as it is supposedly used in the US by customers and patrons then all those clubs wouldn't appear on that list and it would be more up 2 date
just look at the Darwin (Northern Territory) section -- -- Honey Pot has been around for a few years now.... where is it listed there?
I hope I have proven my point that word of mouth is pretty much gold in Australian and not the internet.
jaizaine
02-11-2007, 06:33 AM
This thread illustrates the point that the norms of different clubs are vastly different and what will make the majority of dancers at one club feel uncomfortable would go largely unnoticed or be very normal at another club.
At my club for instance, a new girl was seen straddling a customer and sitting in his lap (not even grinding just sitting). She was dobbed-in by fellow dancers, bitched about and disciplined by management.
Even though it's against the rules at my club I still view it as pretty mild behaviour but it pissed a lot of girls off.
darcy I cannot even imagine how disgusted you were! the dirty talk is just too skanky!
I totally knnow what you mean about when you're giving a dance and your customer can clearly see that another customer is getting way more mileage - it messes with your money in re to selling another dance.
Some girls are stupid, if most people at a club are not offering extra mileage then why would these stupid girls think that they have too? Are they a lot less attractive than the rest of the dancers?
aussiepunkshocker
02-11-2007, 07:41 AM
^^^ Ahhh the joy I felt working in a club where little things like this are sorted out straight away! I like that in a club, thats why working in Melbourne was so refreshing for me. Small things make a huge difference! It is only mild but the point is its not allowed so dont do it. It seems to be in the Sydney club I work in that so many smaller things girls were doing wrong were let go, dancers realise they can get away with anything.
Honestly if I do something wrong in a club I appreciate being told too, I dont take offense to it like some girls do. When you work in different states and clubs occasionally you're so used to doing something one way that you forget you cant do it that way in other places. Work is so much nicer when everyone sticks to the rules and looks out for one another.
Jenny
02-11-2007, 08:35 AM
keep in mind, that in my 4 years dancing experience, i have never had to experience anything even remotely like this before. as a newbie stripper, my boss slammed me with the words "girls who let guys touch them are sluts, and girls who grind are sluts". i was raised into stripping by those exact words and my boss CONSTANTLY reminded us of this and would tell the new girls each and every night about how disgusting and filthy it is. it was what i was taught.
Okay...
Just because your manager said girls like me were sluts doesn't mean you have to say it.
I think the dialogue between Pooka and I has already really made and refined this point - that you can complain and be upset and even be honest without this kind of characterization, and that this kind of characterization is inimical to the nature of a board like this. If you are so much more attached to using words like "whore" than treating your colleagues with respect I don't suppose there is much I can do about it.
Finally - I must stress again - I understand why you were uncomfortable. I would be uncomfortable. I understand not liking the behaviour - I wouldn't either (although in similar situations I encourage my customers to laugh at it. Just slide your eyes from him, to them and giggle, but like your holding it in. He generally will too, and then you guys are in it together, and he is glad he is that he is not that cheap, pathetic guy. It's all about what side they're on). And finally - you might tell her, nicely, that she is, in fact, working outside the norms of the club (don't use the word "whore" - that won't be as effective), and that guys don't really expect it, and if you really want to make the point you can say that she is really raising the game for everyone else. That would be effective with me. I would be embarrassed and cease.
GoldCoastGirl
02-11-2007, 06:48 PM
^^^ Or they can go the way the clubs work here on the Gold Coast and have an actual person in the room who watches all the dances happening (aka "the controller"). This then keeps the girls in line and you wouldn't believe how easy it is to keep the guys in line due to having that presence! ;D
Alaska
02-11-2007, 09:36 PM
I think it's because brothels are legal here.
Here, we are onto something.
Wish that could be the case here. That's exactly the reason for all of this--they feel going to a SC, there are girls who will have sex with them, w/o them having to go to an illegal, dirty, whorehouse---even when a guy wants to pay for sex, he still doesn't want to feel like a social-outcast-JOHN. And they still like SC because of the fantasy--the girl next door, not the hooker. It's unfortunate, because it would help divide the girls here--you want to strip, strip. Be a hooker, hook--but we are all put together under one legal roof, and that's the problem.
I was actually surprised a little at the original post, but now I sort of want to take a 24 hour plane ride to find out for myself!
Lysondra
02-11-2007, 09:39 PM
^ Hey, it's only about 18 hours!! :)
And, really.. since brothels are legal - 90% of men who have gone are really open about it. It's not a big scary thing to hire a prostitute here. They're not going to a dirty whorehouse here. The girls get checked, the men get checked, there's security and privacy.. it's all really safe and not a scary thing at all.
Hell, a prostitute that does couples is my present for my fiancé for our wedding... and everyone here thinks it's great. (most) American friends think I'm insane.
Alaska
02-11-2007, 11:42 PM
I wonder if stripping counts as a work visa? Lol--here we come to infest your country with our filthy language and open legs. Just kidding. I'm curious tho. =)
P.S. That's really interesting about the hiring a prostitute thing, amazing what legalizing does to simmer down attitudes and perceptions, as well as people having safe sex. The reason ppl here freak is because "prostitute" is synonimous with "disease." Amazing--you can have legal prostituion and still the "diva princess" girls in strip clubs. That's not backwards at all, in a strange way....altho if it were ever legalized here ppl would just be too shocked and old school, at least for a couple generations.
GoldCoastGirl
02-12-2007, 12:22 AM
You would need a work visa as alot of clubs won't hire you without the proper paperwork these days. You don't need to say you will be a stripper here just say you are here on a working holiday and hope to get some work when you hit Australia (as there are heaps of jobs for travellors... whole industry has sprung up due to it).
LilSweetVixen
02-12-2007, 02:04 PM
keep in mind, that in my 4 years dancing experience, i have never had to experience anything even remotely like this before. as a newbie stripper, my boss slammed me with the words "girls who let guys touch them are sluts, and girls who grind are sluts". i was raised into stripping by those exact words and my boss CONSTANTLY reminded us of this and would tell the new girls each and every night about how disgusting and filthy it is. it was what i was taught.
you wanna know what the author of Why Men Marry Bitches had to say about strippers? she said "you know strippers don't even like to call themselves strippers. they call themselves 'exotic dancers'. yeah, and a crack dealer is an 'exotic pharmacologist'. " this is what we're up against in this world, it would make sense to stick with your own instead of having your nose in the air, being like an uppity house slave and like you don't belong here.
yeah, i might be a little harsh in my criticisms, but i've spent the last 4 years working in a very, very, very clean and tame environment. i have NEVER sat next to a guy while he moaned loudly and spasmed and nearly kicked me with his leg because he just blew in his pants, until friday night, and quite frankly i was so disgusted and sickened that i went into the toilets to cry about it and was considering walking out. the fact of the matter is, i find it offensive. i have not been trained to deal with this, i have been trained to be offended and to find it disgusting. it made me feel physically ill and i refused to sell any more dances because i was so upset about going in there. i turned down a lot of money.
so yes, i'm a diva princess, but that's what i've been taught to be for the last 4 years by clubs and managers that have encouraged and literally enforced the diva princess attitude.
who are these pushy pimps who have so much control over your mind? I never had to be mentally "trained" one way or another. I am my own person. I make my own decisions. sometimes I slip up and people, including women on this board have to remind me. but I'm tough, tough enough to know that if you're offended by shady business or sexuality then you're in the wrong business. I went into stripping not even for the money, but simply because I find sexual expression, grinding included--Goddesses grind--and consider it empowering. most especially when there is solidarity amongst the women. so far there has been but every now and then something like this happens. it makes me wish there was a cap on the number of people allowed to register for this site because when there are too many people it allows for more drama.
Lysondra
02-12-2007, 05:40 PM
Wow, I never once have put someone on ignore before.
Darcy Foxx
02-12-2007, 07:37 PM
it's good to know you're so completely jaded.
LilSweetVixen
02-12-2007, 07:57 PM
why are you putting me on ignore, and why do you think I'm jaded? because I think we should all stick together?
*Peachy*
02-12-2007, 08:26 PM
Please try not to base your sociological theories on "Why Men Love Bitches" which happens to be the stupidest piece of bullshit ever written. That said, singling out one dancer for her sensitivity to an uncomfortable situation is not "solidarity amongst the women" nor is it "sticking together."
VegasPrincess
02-12-2007, 08:45 PM
Woah, Woah, Woah!! I'm not a slut, I am an ENTERTAINER. I ENTERTAIN people. I do not fuck people. I do not have a "pimp." And I bet 99 % of girls out there are the same as me. I am not a "HO" or a "house slave" and I actually DO do this job strictly for the money, sorry girl.
LilSweetVixen
02-13-2007, 01:21 PM
sorry people.
ExoticEngineer
02-13-2007, 01:45 PM
Geez....
K, so I have been on both ends of this spectrum. I have been the girl who grinds a bit more than the other, and who whispers naughty things in my custy's ear. And I have also been the stuck up girl who blew the entire CR deal because I wouldn't let the guy grab my breasts while the other girl was totally comfortable with that... I think the main issue here is that Darcy was in an uncomfortable position, and for that I feel for the girl...been there, it sucks.
seeing something like that, especially if you haven't been around it before, can really rattle you, and I'm not at all saying you should get used to it, but if you happen to be in that spot again do like one poster said....roll your eyes about it and giggle with your custy, let him know you think that's "icky" and maybe try to move to a different spot. Then when you're done take a deap breath and try to keep it together. :)