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dlabtot
02-21-2007, 06:18 PM
Practice what you preach. Don't vote for him because he has dark skin. Vote for him because you've listened to his politics (and everyone else's) and you agree with his the most.



Although I don't agree with some of the sentiments you expressed in the rest of your post, this was spot-on.

leilanicandy
02-21-2007, 07:27 PM
Well, you are awfully caught up with his race. Your OP and early following posts in this thread are flatout elated just at the mere thought of a black man running for president. So, if you want people to be completely racially unbiased, you should be too. Practice what you preach. Don't vote for him because he has dark skin. Vote for him because you've listened to his politics (and everyone else's) and you agree with his the most.

I love when people use "Americans are too caught up with race" complaint only when it's convenient for their own racist purposes.




The fact that I feel compelled to state yet again that I couldn't care less about his race or anyone else's is irritating to me - I am about as non-racist as they come, yet I am acutely aware that what I have said above will be construed by some to "prove" I am racist ::) I'M NOT FUCKING RACIST. I WISH EVERYONE WOULD JUST QUIT THINKING/WORRYING/TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING RELATED TO RACE OR SKIN COLOR. I FUCKING HATE IT.

Ugh sorry, I think attitudes I'm encountering in my current location is making me a bit extra sensitive to this. It seems like everyone is a fucking bigot here. bleh

To be honest with you I am not "caught up" with his race. I believe Obama has a lot great qualities, if he is elected as president. He will be a great one. I am just proud that he is black. I am proud that he took a stand, in what he believes knowing the troubles that lies ahead for him. You dont see to many people like Obama. I just thought it was great that he is black and he made his the annoucement he was going to be president. In black history month. See Bridget I live in Illinois. In fact I voted for him!I know about the things he do and the things he stand for, I know there is more to him than his skin color. Yet I still believe that Americans is caught up in the race issue. Futher more I live in Chicago. I would have never thought this city will be so divided! And you know what divides this city RACE.

I am sorry you experience whatever happen to you! In fact girl, keep your head up! Gees things could be worse you could have clans taunting you and hurting you and others because of your race.

Nicolina
02-21-2007, 07:32 PM
I don't believe it ... the LA Times is now playing the 'race card' against Barack Obama for not being 'black' enough !

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-chude-sokei18feb18,0,7672643.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

Mel, that's a really interesting, thoughtful article about the relationship between "African-Americans" (i.e. those whose ancestors arrived here in antebellum days and were often--though not always--enslaved) and recent African immigrants.

It documents some of the reasons for the tensions in this relationship, and the ways in which Obama is viewed by "African-Americans."

The conclusion is this:

"So Obama does not transcend race, as some might dream. Instead, he represents a set of tensions that go beyond black and white. On one hand, there is America's complex and still unresolved relationship with African Americans and, on the other, an emergent black immigrant presence that is less willing to politically or socially pass for "black" and that has unresolved and unspoken issues of its own.

"In Obama, we witness how one set of tensions works with and against the other. Immigrant status is deployed not against race but against the messy and unresolved tensions of domestic American racial relationships. And in this, whether he wins or loses, Obama is definitely a sign of the country's future."

How you could interpret this article as "the L.A. times playing the race card" or as a black commentator telling Obama that he isn't "black enough" is really just beyond me.

Barack Obama does not share a similar cultural history with "African-Americans" as defined above. That is just a simple fact. And it is a fact that goes a long way toward explaining why white folks are loving the guy so much, and why African-Americans are viewing him as "not one of us." His cultural background and frame of reference is just different. Pointing that out does not, in my opinion, amount to "playing a race card."

For that matter, Obama's personal history is not very similar to that of most recent African immigrants. He's got a pretty unique story that does, in some ways, allow him to transcend some of America's racial hangups. I think so, anyway.

Here are some links to some recent NPR pieces on Obama:

"Black voters not sold on Obama": http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7299432 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7299432)

Here's one on how much white folks love him (because let's face it, New Hampshire is not much of a melting pot!) :
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6607687 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6607687)

And here's a really super-interesting one by a black commentator who surmises that Obama's appeal for white voters has something to do with the fact that he does not carry the "burden of slavery":
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6610034 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6610034)


Personally, from what I've seen so far, I love the guy. His politics are very liberal--in fact, I'm pretty sure that, all else aside, he is WAAAAYYYYYYYY too liberal to EVER win the American presidency (not without selling out, anyway).

Somehow, though, he seems able to make these lefty ideas go down pretty easy....People see him as "reaching out" to the other side of the aisle, not as an extremist. I don't quite understand how he does it....But I like it.8)

Melonie
02-21-2007, 07:41 PM
Barack Obama does not share a similar cultural history with "African-Americans" as defined above. That is just a simple fact. And it is a fact that goes a long way toward explaining why white folks are loving the guy so much, and why African-Americans are viewing him as "not one of us." His cultural background and frame of reference is just different. Pointing that out does not, in my opinion, amount to "playing a race card."

That appears to be THE fact ! The 'race card' in the form of 'Obama isn't really black' is arguably being played by the current Afro-American leadership i.e. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton et al, as well as by the supporters of Afro-American hot button issues (i.e. affirmative action, minority set-asides, college admissions standards, the 'urban poverty' industry) who fear that Obama's intelligent, educated, hard working, upper middle class black immigrant background may cause him to take a different stance on said issues than Afro-American leaders have taken in the past. I can't speak for the editors and publishers of the LA Times, but they did choose to run this story while no other typically 'liberal' media did.

I agree that Barack Obama is smart, savvy, comes across great in the mainstream media, is very charismatic etc. However I also know that when it comes to behind the scenes politicking at the DNC and the Democratic convention, the true powers behind the Democratic party will calculate that they stand to lose more than they would gain by nominating Obama.

leilanicandy
02-22-2007, 06:07 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070222/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_obama


You know I think if you put Hiliary and Obama in the same room to figure out a promblem, I thought they could solve it! Being these two people could offer this country alot! I wonder what happen why are they not togethier on what they need to do for this country. If I am not mistaking, I thought they whrer to run togethier as president and vice president. I could be wrong. I do tend to be wrong about a lot things. Yet what tear them apart for working togethier!.


Or is this the way democrates is seeing who has a better chance for runing for president. This is why we do not know if he an elected democrate offical to run for president. I known what I have wriiten sounds so crazy. Yet I think that the democrates maybe pulling some serious stuff out of the hat. I have yet to heard how divided is the democrates are on the two candiates.

Eric Stoner
02-22-2007, 09:37 AM
MELONIE- Jesse is supporting Obama. So is Oprah. Aside from Black politicians, Hillary's supporters in the "Black community" have been limited to Quincy Jones and Janet Jackson. Rahm Emmanuel is admittedly torn has not supported either; yet. Many of Bill's high-profile supporters are trying to support both. Except for David Geffen who is strongly backing Obama having learned the hard way how two-faced and selfish the Clintons really are.

Melonie
02-22-2007, 09:41 AM
I have yet to heard how divided is the democrates are on the two candiates.

^^^ you're not serious ?





my favorite snippet ...

(snip)"And the winner is...
So who won the cat fight?

Neither Hillary nor Obama. As the day wore on, Hillary got a chance to follow up Wolfson’s gambit and she declined, refusing at a forum in Nevada to demand that Obama repudiate Geffen’s remarks. Does Hillary really want to get in a fight with Geffen? Probably not, nor does she want to rehash the 1990s. As for Obama, why get in it with Hillary more than you absolutely have to?

Two winners: Edwards, who has his own Hollywood following, though not as fervent a one; and the GOP, whose leaders are loving watching the Hollywood gang war. “We love it when Democrats fight over which of them is closer to a billionaire LA movie mogul,” a GOP strategist in New York told me. “That’s really where the American mainstream is: on the West Side of LA!”"(snip)


You know I think if you put Hiliary and Obama in the same room to figure out a promblem, I thought they could solve it! Being these two people could offer this country alot!

undoubtedly they agree on a couple of things ... the first being raising taxes on the middle class in order to create / increase social welfare benefits in order to solve the problem ... and the second being leaving tax loopholes for the 'rich' in place so that their big money supporters like David Geffen and fellow Hollywood / NY Limousine Liberals don't actually have to pay a very high percentage of taxes themselves.

Bridgette
02-22-2007, 04:02 PM
I think if Clinton and Obama run together it will be doomed before it starts. Sad, but I really think that is an accurate assessment based on overriding bigotry in this country. A woman and a black man together will NEVER be elected for highest offices in this country.

cinammonkisses
02-23-2007, 01:30 PM
#1 - if Obama is nominated 100% of black American voters will vote for him. If a different Democratic candidate is nominated 90-95% of black American voters will vote for the Democratic candidate. Thus nominating Obama amounts to at best an extra 10% of 10% or 1% advantage over a different Democratic nominee in terms of national election results.

~

this is actually incorrect info. Just because Barack Obama is actually running for president does not mean that 100% of black Americans will vote for him. The "black vote" is just as important as any other vote out there. We research candidates just like everyone else. I really don't think it's fair to lump all Blacks into one category and assume that we are voting one way just because Obama is black. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070204/NEWS06/702040592

Eric Stoner
02-23-2007, 02:04 PM
Obama didn't split the Black vote in illinois even though Keyes was Black too. Steele didn't dominate the Black vote in Md. A small % of Blacks will likely vote for the Republican candidate so Obama will not get 100 %.

The real fun is just getting started. Let's see just how forgiving American Blacks are AFTER Hillary and her dirt-diggers get through with Obama. At the least, it will give the rest of the country an excellent chance to really see what a vicious bitch that woman can be.

Melonie
02-23-2007, 03:57 PM
I really don't think it's fair to lump all Blacks into one category and assume that we are voting one way just because Obama is black.

Nobody assumed that afro-american voters would support Barack Obama just because he is black. It was more like afro-american voters would support Barack Obama because he was liberal Democrat who also happens to be black. If you check the exit poll statistics from the last two presidential elections, you'll find that afro-american voters favored the Democratic presidential candidate by about a 90%-10% average margin. With afro-american voters comprising about 10% of the US electorate, and typically voting at a 10% fraction of that 10% = 1% for a republican candidate, it's no wonder why the Democrat and Republican strategists both 'take for granted' that the afro-american vote as is totally in the Democrat camp - regardless of the skin color of the Democratic presidential candidate that is eventually chosen by the DNC / convention. Regardless of whether Barack Obama can mobilize 100% of afro-american voters who formerly supported a republican candidate to support a democratic candidate instead (i.e. himself), versus having the 2008 election follow along the lines of the 2000 and 2004 elections, there is really only 1% of potential 'swing' involved.

Now if Condy Rice or Harold Ford were to wind up being chosen as a Republican presidential candidate, and Hilary or John Edwards were to wind up being chosen as the Democratic presidential candidate, America would finally get a chance to see how many afro-americans would vote on the basis of political ideology vs skin color ! IMHO they would vote along political ideology lines, because there is a chance that voting for Condy Rice or Harold Ford would have a negative effect on minority set-asides, affirmative action, double standard college admissions, and a host of other such programs which are typically supported by the Democrats and not supported by the Republicans.

~

PrettyCurlieQ
02-23-2007, 10:19 PM
I'm loving this. America definitely needs a change.. although to be completely honest, I LOVED Clinton, I wish he could run again!! He may have not been a great husband, but he was a bad ass president.
The only issue w/ Obama is that much of the US is very closed-minded and afraid of change ... Obama is black, muslim, and his name is gonna be made fun of (OSAMA=OBAMA) ... but hopefully the American public has had enough w/ Bush (which I think they have) and we can move on to bigger and better things!

Melonie
02-24-2007, 08:44 AM
^^^ that depends on who is doing the investigating, spinmeistering and publishing ...



(snip)"Sources said the background check, conducted by researchers connected to Senator Clinton, disclosed details of Mr. Obama's Muslim past. The sources said the Clinton camp concluded the Illinois Democrat concealed his prior Muslim faith and education.

"The background investigation will provide major ammunition to his opponents," the source said. "The idea is to show Obama as deceptive."

In two best-selling autobiographies—"The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream" and "Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance"—Mr. Obama, born in Honolulu where his parents met, mentions but does not expand on his Muslim background, alluding only to his attendance at a "predominantly Muslim school."

The sources said the young Obama was given the name Hussein by his Muslim father, which the Illinois Democrat rarely uses in public.

His father was black and came from Kenya. Mr. Obama’s mother, the daughter of a farmer, came from Wichita, Kansas. Mr. Obama's parents divorced when he was two years old. His father returned to Kenya.

Later, Mr. Obama's mother married an Indonesian student and the family moved to Jakarta. Mr. Obama returned to Hawaii when he was 10 to live with his maternal grandparents.

The sources said the background check concerned Mr. Obama's years in Jakarta. In Indonesia, the young Obama was enrolled in a Madrassa and was raised and educated as a Muslim. Although Indonesia is regarded as a moderate Muslim state, the U.S. intelligence community has determined that today most of these schools are financed by the Saudi Arabian government and they teach a Wahhabi doctrine that denies the rights of non-Muslims.

Although the background check has not confirmed that the specific Madrassa Mr. Obama attended was espousing Wahhabism, the sources said his Democratic opponents believe this to be the case—and are seeking to prove it. The sources said the opponents are searching for evidence that Mr. Obama is still a Muslim or has ties to Islam."(snip)

dlabtot
02-24-2007, 09:53 AM
CNN debunks false report about Obama
POSTED: 2:01 a.m. EST, January 23, 2007


A month later, Melonie is still repeating this lie.

The article continues:


JAKARTA, Indonesia (CNN) -- Allegations that Sen. Barack Obama was educated in a radical Muslim school known as a "madrassa" are not accurate, according to CNN reporting.

Insight Magazine, which is owned by the same company as The Washington Times (http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?p=939941#post939941), reported on its Web site last week that associates of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-New York, had unearthed information the Illinois Democrat and likely presidential candidate attended a Muslim religious school known for teaching the most fundamentalist form of Islam.

Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from 1967 to 1971, with his mother and stepfather and has acknowledged attending a Muslim school, but an aide said it was not a madrassa.

Insight attributed the information in its article to an unnamed source, who said it was discovered by "researchers connected to Senator Clinton." A spokesman for Clinton, who is also weighing a White House bid, denied that the campaign was the source of the Obama claim.

He called the story "an obvious right-wing hit job."

Read the rest of the story: http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/index.html


ABC News also investigated:


Nothing Extreme About Indonesian School Attended by Obama

Jan. 25, 2007 — An ABC News producer and crew visited the school in Jakarta, Indonesia, attended by Sen. Barack Obama in his youth and found it to be a normal government public school without even a hint of the extremist elements reported by various conservative news outlets in the last week.

"These rumors about our school being an Islamic extremist school are completely incorrect," assistant headmaster Akhmad Solihim told ABC News. "We are a regular public school."

Solihim confirmed that Obama attended the school as a child, before he transferred to a local Catholic school. The school featured both boy and girl students, basketball, and classes in many subjects. A class in Islam was matched by one in Christianity, complete with teachings from the New Testament, a sign featuring the Lord's Prayer and a painting of Jesus. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. One student had a SpongeBob SquarePants bookbag.

Read the rest of the story: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2822061&page=1

dlabtot
02-24-2007, 10:04 AM
More Obama news:


Over 20,000 Gather For Barack Obama

in..... Texas


(CBS 42) AUSTIN If Friday's turnout is any indication, Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama is gaining huge momentum. Austin was one of the stops on his presidential announcement tour. More than 20,000 supporters filled Auditorium Shores to hear him speak. The crowd shows Obama’s appeal crosses boundaries of age, race and gender. Long lines and rainy weather didn't keep supporters of the Democratic party's fastest rising star away.

"He's not just a young persons person, but middle age and older people too,” Dorothy Johson said.

Obama is re-energizing voters.

“I really haven’t been involved in politics in quite some time,” L.B. Henderson said. “I felt this is an opportunity to do some grassroots to see what's going on.” Henderson likes what he hears from Obama. “He's got a lot of energy,” Henderson said. “He's talking about change. That's going to make a difference.”

Obama stressed universal health care, education and pulling out of Iraq. Tom Rafferty says there's a lot more to Obama. “He's talking about domestic policy, he's talking about human rights, he's talking about energy and how we can rebuild this country,” Rafferty said.

That's why these voters want to see Barack Obama in the White House in 2008.

http://keyetv.com/topstories/local_story_054223608.html

Melonie
02-24-2007, 01:57 PM
the entire point of my saying "that depends on who is doing the investigating, spinmeistering and publishing" was that, when it comes to politics, the truth actually matters very little. What DOES matter is how loudly and how often the lies get broadcast (example GWB's supposed draft-dodging).

Keep in mind that, so far, it has only been other Democrats targeting Obama ! Republicans seem to be sitting back, hoping that the Dems will actually select Obama as their presidential candidate.

Eric Stoner
02-24-2007, 02:26 PM
BILL Clinton is NOT running. Hillary is. Eight years of doing NOTHING to protect us from terrorists; eight years of NEVER seriously trying to get Bin Laden and people are nostalgic ?????

Btw, Obama is not a Muslim. He DID attend an Indonesian GOVERNMENT school. So what ? Does anyone seriously think he's some sort of terrorist mole ? I like the fact that he spent part of his "yoot" OUTSIDE the U.S. Nothing gives one a greater appreciation for the good old U.S. of A. than spending significant time abroad.

Melonie
02-25-2007, 08:55 AM
BILL Clinton is NOT running. Hillary is.

Considering that the Clinton's financial backing is the same, their 'core support' groups are the same, the owed political favors are the same etc., from a DNC / candidate selection standpoint I'm not sure that there's all that much of a difference.

Where Obama is concerned, his financial backing has so far been mostly Hollywood based. His 'core support' groups are really unknown, at least in terms of any groups who would support Obama but NOT support Hilary if she wound up being the Democratic presidential candidate instead. As to owed political favors, Barack is heavily indebted to the Daley machine - but what successful Democrat from Illinois isn't !

I agree that the 2008 election trail is going to be 'interesting' to say the least. I'm particularly interested in seeing how the massive amount of past 'bad blood' between Rudy Giuliani and the Clintons plays out. If RINO Rudy winds up having a pretty good shot at the Republican nomination, that 'bad blood' could go a long way towards propelling Barack Obama onto the Dem ticket instead of Hilary. On the other hand, when it comes to successful presidential campaigns, 'money talks' ... and the Clintons can afford to shout loudly while Barack is whispering.

dlabtot
02-25-2007, 11:03 AM
the entire point of my saying "that depends on who is doing the investigating, spinmeistering and publishing" was that, when it comes to politics, the truth actually matters very little. What DOES matter is how loudly and how often the lies get broadcast (example GWB's supposed draft-dodging).

You repeated an attack from a right wing publication - owned by cult leader Sun Myung Moon - without also mentioning that it has been thoroughly debunked.

Yes, to some, the truth matters very little. Thank you for providing such a crystal clear example of this point.



Keep in mind that, so far, it has only been other Democrats targeting Obama ! Republicans seem to be sitting back, hoping that the Dems will actually select Obama as their presidential candidate.

No, the attack came from the Moonie cult owned 'Insight Magazine'.

Eric Stoner
02-25-2007, 12:38 PM
dlabtot- Kindly re-read Melonie's posts. She re-printed an article. She DIDN'T vouch for its veracity. Quite the contrary. And btw, it's the Hillary camp that's making sure everyone knows Obama's middle name is "Hussein". It's Hillary that's whining about David Geffen pulling down her ( and Bill's ) pants and then trying to hold Obama responsible and her machine hasn't even gotten warmed up yet. Wait until they dig up out-dated photos of Obama sucking on a cigarette ( he's quit )
While Obama certainly has Hollywood support, so does Hillary. His campaign does APPEAR to be much more populist than hers and the enthusiasm level for him is MUCH higher than for her and she is JEALOUS ! Big-time ! The real difference is going to come out soon when all of Bill's CORPORATE and WALL STREET movers and shakers who now support Hillary are revealed. Wall Street never had it better
than under Bill & Rubin.
I like Obama. I can't stand Hillary. Never could. He's much more open and honest than she'll ever be - ( "Yes I inhaled. That was the point .") So far, my only problem with him is on tax policy.

Lastly, YOU are the last person to wag your finger at someone else on matters of supposed 'truth". You don't seem to care about it very much.

Melonie
02-25-2007, 01:00 PM
the entire point of my saying "that depends on who is doing the investigating, spinmeistering and publishing" was that, when it comes to politics, the truth actually matters very little. What DOES matter is how loudly and how often the lies get broadcast (example GWB's supposed draft-dodging).


You repeated an attack from a right wing publication - owned by cult leader Sun Myung Moon - without also mentioning that it has been thoroughly debunked.

yes I did to try and illustrate my point ... how many times did CBS news and a host of 'left wing' publications repeat the story about GWB supposedly dodging the draft after it was thoroughly debunked ? Again, my point here is not to bash Barack Obama. I'll also freely admit that there apperas to be no factual basis to link Obama to Islam in any way (let alone to Islamic extremists). If the truth were known, he's my favorite choice as Dem presidential candidate (based on the Michael Moore theory). However, my point was, and still is, that the vast majority of American voters don't really care about facts in regard to elections. It's certainly no secret that American voters make extremely little effort to research the facts for themselves. What DOES seem to matter in election years is the American voters' 'perception' of the candidates rather than their factual voting history, their factual personal history, their factual list of criminal charges etc. That 'perception' is formed by air time / news coverage / spin, with factual information playing a very limited role.

As proof of this point I would offer the observation that Bill Clinton had more than enough American voter support to have been re-elected to a third term in 2000 had he not been barred by law from running - despite the fact that he was convicted, disbarred etc ! I'd offer mirror image proof in regard to Tom DeLay, who hasn't been convicted of anything, but whose political career is now over.

It remains to be seen whether the 'powers that be' in Democrat politics and mainstream media will continue to treat Barack Obama with the same soft focus spotlight he has enjoyed so far. If and when the media bashing begins (and I concur with Eric Stoner that this is a highly probable development if Obama is still 'politically alive' to pose a serious threat to Hilary when Democratic convention time rolls around), Barack is likely to find himself in a Tom LeLay situation re shortage of funds with which to mount a 'defense' in the mainstream media.

~

Eric Stoner
02-25-2007, 01:34 PM
MELONIE- It all remains to be seen. While Hillary will undoubtedly have her surrogates ( Eleanor "Rodham" Clift et al ) go after Obama she is already getting hers ( and deservedly so from Edwards ). Likewise, Obama's supporters have DECADES of material to use against Hillary and hopefully will. I like the way Obama has played it so far - using the Clinton past against her. "Why blame me because Geffen no longer likes you guys. You're the ones who put him up in the Lincoln Bedroom."
The Democrat Party is forming up for a circular firing squad which will make for months of political entertainment. I don't care how Hillary is stopped. So far she is doing a fine job of wounding herself. I just hope she keeps up the good work.

dlabtot
02-25-2007, 01:42 PM
Again, my point here is not to bash Barack Obama.




Oh, of course not (http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50010). ::)

Eric Stoner
02-25-2007, 02:08 PM
diablot- Would you be kind enough to point to something that Melonie has posted that "bashes" Obama ? Not all of us have your skills in Creative Reading Comprehension.

MELONIE- DeLay's career is over thanks to DeLay. Even giving him a pass on the bogus indictment he's currently facing ( for which he'll PROBABLY be acquitted) he is deservedly gone from the scene for the way in which he got into bed with Abramoff ( and other lobbyists ) and sold out the Republican Congress to the highest bidder. Bill Moyers ( not my favorite journalist) did a wonderful expose of the whole mess on PBS and DeLay was in it up to his neck. Most of his apologists in the right-wing media have abandoned him after the Congressional
Election fiasco of '06 and the shameless way he facilitated "earmarks" and other irresponsible spending.
Just as Hastert sat on his hands during the Congressional Page Scandal; so did DeLay. Neither lifted a finger to boot Foley even though both KNEW of his outrageous behavior.

Has the media directed the same sort of attention to Jefferson and his "ice cold stash of cash " ? Unfortunately not but that's par for the course. When members of the media are polled and are by their own admission 90 % "liberal" and when they vote Democrat 90 % of the time it's no surprise that they slant their coverage. Murtha is the "King" of Congressional Pork but that doesn't get reported. The media doesn't bother reminding anybody that he avoided indictment in the Ab-Scam scandal by making a deal and testifying before the Grand Jury. They don't replay the tape where he does everything BUT pocket the cash.
Nancy Pelosi gets a pass for taking political contributions from fish canning companies in American Samoa in exchange for exempting them from American Labor Laws. That's right. They import Chinese workers ( conning them into thinking they're coming to work in the U.S. ) and then pay them far below the U.S minimum wage. All perfectly legal thanks to Nancy and Tom DeLay.

There IS a double standard in the mainstream media as far as Republicans and Democrats are concerned. How it will manifest itself in the Hillary, Obama, Edwards free for all remains to be seen.

Melonie
02-25-2007, 05:23 PM
Not wanting to get too far afield, but where Tom DeLay versus the Clintons are concerned re being in bed with lobbyists, dipping their hand in the 'cookie jar' etc. you're talking about Saint John's versus the NY Knicks ! At any rate, there are extremely few prominent politicians of either party who are free of criticism in this regard. However, there IS a huge difference between which politicians are flayed in the mainstream media and eventually the US courts over such issues, versus other politicians who are free from mainstream media accusations over the same sort of issues (as you indirectly pointed out re Nancy Pelosi and William Jefferson).

Going back to dlabtot's own news story on 20,000 turning out to support Obama in Texas, there is another important detail which is very telling about Obama's present and future political support that was left out of his snippet ...



(snip)" Obama told the Austin crowd that they should try to recruit their friends to support his campaign. "I want you to tell them, 'It's time for you to turn off the TV and stop playing GameBoy,'" Obama said. "We've got work to do."

Tickets to the rally were free, but Obama asked the attendees to give even $5 or $10. "I don't want to have to raise money in Hollywood all the time," he said. "(snip)


but where Hilary is concerned, according to the SF Chronicle ...

"Clinton visited San Francisco at the invitation of major Democratic Party donor Susie Tompkins Buell on the same day the first declared Democratic candidate for president, former Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack, dropped out of the race. Vilsack said he could not raise enough money to continue the 618-day marathon to the Nov. 4, 2008, election.

But Clinton appeared to have no such problem in San Francisco, where 900 people attended her sold-out, $250-a-head fundraiser at the Palace Hotel, including such political leaders as state Sens. Don Perata of Oakland and Carole Migden of San Francisco, Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's chief of staff Susan Kennedy, and such major party donors as developer Walter Shorenstein, whom the senator helped serenade with a chorus of "Happy Birthday.'' (snip)

~

T-10
02-25-2007, 08:57 PM
You repeated an attack from a right wing publication - owned by cult leader Sun Myung Moon - without also mentioning that it has been thoroughly debunked.

Yes, to some, the truth matters very little. Thank you for providing such a crystal clear example of this point.



Dlabtot,

I just have to tell you something. You so rock :headbange

Eric Stoner
02-27-2007, 12:19 PM
New Jersey, a "must have" state for Hillary has moved up its Primary to the first week in February, 2008. If Obama holds his own there, she is in serious trouble.

Eric Stoner
02-28-2007, 08:42 AM
It's getting better and better.California has just voted to move their Primary up to FEBRUARY 5th. This is shaping up to be a Primary Season unlike any other to date. The amount of money needed just to survive and stay in the race into March, 2008 is going to be AT LEAST $50 million. Gone are the days when a strong showing in Iowa and New Hampshire could generate "momentum" and increase money in the campaign coffers. Remember how Bill came in SECOND in New Hampshire and declared victory calling himself " The Comeback Kid ". Ain't gonna happen in '08. The media buys necessary for California ( San Fran. ; San Jose; Sacramento; Fresno ; San Diego AND L.A. ) plus those for N.J. ( N.Y. & Philly ) have made fund-raising THIS YEAR life or death for Hillary, Obama and Edwards.

Eric Stoner
03-01-2007, 10:55 AM
From today's N.Y. Post- N.Y. Lt. Governor David Patterson and State Senate Minority Leader Malcolm Smith have both advised Hillary to back off on attacking Obama.
Hillary's support among African-Americans has dropped 26 points in 5 weeks according to the latest ABC/Washington Post poll and she now trails Obama among blacks by 14 percentage points.
Hillary advisor Paul Begala tried to spin the poll results by saying on CNN: " I wonder if the Obama camp wasn't hoping for more. "
Newt Gingrich predicted that : "Nobody will out-mud the Clintons" and that if Clinton sees Obama as a real threat; " they'll just grind him up".

Melonie
03-01-2007, 03:50 PM
^^^ again I would argue the point that, when a Democratic presidential candidate is finally chosen, it is virtually guaranteed that said Democratic candidate will receive 90% of the Afro-american vote in the presidential election no matter who that candidate is. Hilary's advisers know this as well as anyone. Thus there is actually very little risk involved for Hilary in slugging it out with Barack Obama because if (more like when) the Clinton money machine succeeds in 'grinding up' Obama, opening the door to Hilary's nomination at the Dem convention, 90% of the Afro-american vote is still going to support her against whatever Republican candidate she faces in the presidential election.

Unlike the unhappy 'heartland' republican voters in the 2006 congressional election, there is no way that Afro-american voters are going to express their displeasure for Hilary's attacks on Barack Obama by voting for Rudy Giuliani or John McCain or Newt Gingrich !

Melonie
03-01-2007, 05:41 PM
^^^ I really can't see that happening. Undoubtedly the Democratic campaigns will point out that the election of a Republican candidate could put such special interest issues as minority set-asides, college admission double standards, affirmative action etc. at risk.

Eric Stoner
03-02-2007, 08:45 AM
As I've posted, African Americans will probably be very forgiving of and willing to be taken for granted by the Dems. BUT what about Obama's white anti-war supporters ? Hillary's position on the war ( if anyone can figure out what it is )has already turned off the anti-war wing of the Dem. Party raising the possibility of a serious third party run based on a strong anti-war platform not to mention a fractured Convention a la '68.
A lot depends on Obama and how gracious and forgiving he decides to be after being savaged by the HillBillary machine. He may pull a Ted Kennedy and grudgingly shake hands after Hillary's acceptance speech. It's unlikely Hillary will offer him the second chair. She won't need him. Illinois is a "Blue" state and Obama doesn't help her convert a "Red" state. She's much more likely to tab Richardson to flip New Mexico and buttress her Latin support.

Melonie
03-03-2007, 05:02 AM
^^^ very true re political strategy of either party - it makes little strategic sense for their pres and VP candidates to both come from states where their party 'rules' at the state level. Far better strategy is, as you point out, to choose a VP who has the potential of 'flipping' the electorate in his state.

On the other subject ( media attacks, distortions and spins), I see that Barack is now being hit from a different angle ...



(snip)""While a relative owned slaves, another fought for the Union in the Civil War," campaign spokesman Bill Burton said last night. "And it is a true measure of progress that the descendant of a slave owner would come to marry a student from Kenya and produce a son who would grow up to be a candidate for president of the United States."

The research traces the Duvalls to Mareen Duvall, a major land owner in Anne Arundel County in the 1600s. The inventory of his estate in 1694 names 18 slaves, according to a family history published in 1952.

The records could add a new dimension to questions by some who have asked whether Obama - who was raised in East Asia and Hawaii and educated at Columbia and Harvard - is attuned to the struggles of American blacks descended from West African slaves.

"The twist is very interesting," said Ronald Walters, a political scientist who is director of the African-American Leadership Institute at the University of Maryland, College Park. "It deepens his connection with the experience of slavery, even if it deepens it on a different side of the equation.""(snip)

(snip)"Author and essayist Debra J. Dickerson wrote in a January salon.com article that she had previously refrained from opining about the senator because "I didn't have the heart (or the stomach) to point out the obvious: Obama isn't black."

" 'Black,' in our political and social reality, means those descended from West African slaves," Dickerson said.

Walters, who was deputy campaign manager for Jesse Jackson in 1984 and the author of Black Presidential Politics in America, agreed that questions raised by Dickerson and others "is an important debate."

"What people are really asking is, 'Can I trust this guy? Do I have confidence in this guy? Does he understand my situation, and therefore [is he] able to take my issues into the political system?'" Walters said."(snip)

Eric Stoner
03-03-2007, 02:20 PM
A little self-correction. I under-estimated the impact of Super Tuesday. After Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada (all in January) February 5 will see SEVENTEEN (17)primaries and caucuses. Half the country will have voted by 2/5/08. This means that any viable candidate will need $100 MILLION by New Year's Day just to be competitive in the primaries. The front-runner on Halloween, 2007 will soak up at least 90 % of the money in two months.To retain viability, whoever is behind in the polls and the money chase ( probably Obama ) will have to score a knock-out in the debates. And he COULD do it.

The latest polls have given HillBillary some genuine cause for concern. Prior to her hysterical response to Geffen's attack Hillary was LEADING Obama among blacks 60 to 20 %. After attacking Obama it flipped. Obama now LEADS her 44 to 33 % with Edwards trailing. This is only among African Americans. I'd like to see a break-down between HillBillary and Obama among likely Dem. voters who oppose the Iraq War.

See my new thread on Hillary's latest economic proposal. She probably gave Rubin and her Wall St. supporters a coronary !

Eric Stoner
03-13-2007, 08:33 AM
I TOLD YOU SO ! Read my Sharpton & Obama thread posted today.