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space_Cadet_28
03-30-2007, 11:04 PM
Well plenty of issues.

From what I've seen:
It's not illegal aliens, or union health insurance programs, it's a much more systemic problem.
Free market capitalism with insurance paying is leading to increased costs every year.
US doctors, especially specialties make more than in the other mentioned countries.


I've seen more rationing in the US in the form of people not wanting to pay for medical care or having a condition and not wanting to pay for the high insurance costs.
To be cold hearted way too much money and effort goes into the last month of life. Almost every family will go to extreme efforts even when age and sickness have long foretold the results. I have no idea how this is approached in other industrialized countries but considering their reputations I'm sure its just as bad as here.

Melonie
03-31-2007, 06:56 AM
To be cold hearted way too much money and effort goes into the last month of life. Almost every family will go to extreme efforts even when age and sickness have long foretold the results. I have no idea how this is approached in other industrialized countries but considering their reputations I'm sure its just as bad as here.

As I just finished saying, no it isn't. In socialized medicine countries a huge amount of medical costs are saved by simply delaying providing 'necessary' but expensive treatment for a few months ... which results in a high percentage of the patients 'requiring' such expensive treatment dying before the treatment is provided ! This is precisely the reason that 'rich' people from socialized medicine countries wind up paying through the teeth for 'private' medical care (or jumping the border to obtain 'private' medical care in another country).


It's not illegal aliens, or union health insurance programs, it's a much more systemic problem.

Again I don't want to get bogged down on this 'sideshow' issue, but you should research the closing of over 70 hospital emergency rooms and clinics in California who were bankrupted by a state mandate requiring they provide medical care to anyone who walks in the door combined with lack of reimbursement for those costs from the illegal alien patients.

As to the union / civil service health benefits, the point here is that without requiring any contribution whatsoever from the insured, the insured has every reason to request any and all treatment options regardless of their actual cost to their employer / the taxpayer. On the other hand, a conventional 80/20 plan or a high deductible plan makes the patient think about treatment options, as some significant portion of the cost will have to be borne directly by the patient.

Eric Stoner
04-02-2007, 08:04 AM
It wasn't my assertion, so I don't see why I should be the one to try and back it up. If you actually did do a google search, you should have no trouble producing evidence, yet you've tried to sidestep the question each of the three times that I've asked you.

I don't need to know about the actual numbers. What I would like is evidence that you didn't make this up, because the statement sounds awfully fishy to me (plus I don't know any locals who've heard a thing about it).

I'll take your assertion as false in its entirety, since you don't seem to be able to back it up to any extent.

NOOOOO ! - If you bother to look things up you'd see that Aussies do go to Thailand and India for medical care. Exactly WHY they go is not clear. Since Australia has nice advanced Western style medical care it could be a COST issue.To date I have NOT seen a quantification of how many Aussies are "medical tourists ." My previous use of "so many" was presumptuos and erroneous and I shouldn't have done it. I apologize for my carelessness. Please apply your "absolutist" standard to ALL other posters when they are guilty of factual
delinquency; INCLUDING YOURSELF !

flickad
04-02-2007, 08:26 PM
NOOOOO ! - If you bother to look things up you'd see that Aussies do go to Thailand and India for medical care. Exactly WHY they go is not clear. Since Australia has nice advanced Western style medical care it could be a COST issue.To date I have NOT seen a quantification of how many Aussies are "medical tourists ." My previous use of "so many" was presumptuos and erroneous and I shouldn't have done it. I apologize for my carelessness. Please apply your "absolutist" standard to ALL other posters when they are guilty of factual
delinquency; INCLUDING YOURSELF !

I didn't ask why they go. I asked YOU to back up YOUR assertion by showing me evidence that they go for non-cosmetic care. This is the fifth time I've asked I think, yet you keep avoiding the issue, even asserting that I should be the one to prove your point. Well, that's not the way it works. If you make a statement, you should be prepared to back it up, the same way I should be prepared to back up my own statements. I don't see why I should back yours up though, particularly if you can't.

I'm no longer asking for how many and I accept your retraction. What I would like to see is evidence that Australians go to Asia for non-cosmetic care at all. Because this is unheard of both to me and the locals I know.

Eric Stoner
04-03-2007, 08:16 AM
I didn't ask why they go. I asked YOU to back up YOUR assertion by showing me evidence that they go for non-cosmetic care. This is the fifth time I've asked I think, yet you keep avoiding the issue, even asserting that I should be the one to prove your point. Well, that's not the way it works. If you make a statement, you should be prepared to back it up, the same way I should be prepared to back up my own statements. I don't see why I should back yours up though, particularly if you can't.

I'm no longer asking for how many and I accept your retraction. What I would like to see is evidence that Australians go to Asia for non-cosmetic care at all. Because this is unheard of both to me and the locals I know.

You need to get out more.

flickad
04-03-2007, 07:54 PM
You need to get out more.

You need to stop saying things you can't back up. It makes you look like you're lying through your teeth, to be frank.

Eric Stoner
04-04-2007, 07:27 AM
You need to stop saying things you can't back up. It makes you look like you're lying through your teeth, to be frank.

Mea culpa, mea culpa;mea maxima culpa !