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layka
03-11-2007, 12:38 AM
Alexxa, do these seem like the kind of dancers who sit in the dressing room bitching? I haven't heard one peep about that in this thread. They're talking about very real problems, like even getting in the door of the damn club because of idiot managers with ethnic quotas in their heads, particular body/beauty issues, and how white dudes react to them.

Miabella worked in a city with a majority black and hispanic population (white chicks are a "minority" there as well) and still had to deal with anxiety about getting hired at better clubs because she's not white. Also, you might be in the "minority" in LA but you know who else is in the minority? Rich people. It just isn't the same. I was in the minority growing up in South Texas as an Anglo, and let me tell you, the whole (white) country club in my hometown there is just crying into their martinis about the prejudice they deal with. ::)

Anyone who tattoos "Evil Cunt" on her stomach is purposefully choosing to set herself out of the more employable mainstream of the sex industry (and prepared to always wear one-pieces on family beaches). Your "difference" is cultural, not ethnic. No comparison.

Nothing in this thread is self-pitying or anything but the truth; I have seen incredibly beautiful black dancers turned away by nasty racist management in Austin, which is supposed to be one of our more liberal cities. It makes my jaw drop and I cannot begin to imagine how shitty it is to add that on to everything that automatically comes with this job. I won't even pretend that there's any experience I can have that would be comparable.

It's so refreshing that although you admit to not understanding where we're coming from you're still able to relate. It shows respect and maturity... it's women like you who give understanding and acceptance hope.

I can tell that you're being genuine. I won't ramble, but it takes a special person to be able to identify with others despite their experiences. You are so compassionate.... it kind of makes me feel .... at. a.loss.for.words...damn that's a first.;D

:hug:

Alright ya'll, I'm done being mushy and sentimental. But ya girl susan caught me off guard, lmao.

layka
03-11-2007, 12:46 AM
I just want to make sure I'm not imagining things. So basically, their are people out their that think the answer to discrimination is simply keep that shit to yourselves, keep youe head up, and move on.... If so, I'll let you in on a lil something. If that mentality would've worked then we would still be enslaved. Last time I checked slaves had that yes'm mentality and we didn't start to see change as a race until people got fed up. Real change didn't start to take place until others put on their shoes to march, sat their ass down on a couple of buses and lunch counters. I wish someone would have suggested "keep your head up" and "move on", lmao, I wouldn't be here amongst ya'll today! Silence and pride wasn't the answer then...so why would I result to "moving on" now if I'm STILL fighting for equality.

*mumbles*
Silent pride and keep your head up is all it takes huh, Martin Luther King is probably rolling in his damn grave:shrug:

Frankly that solution sounds too good to be true, and we all know if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Miss_Luscious
03-11-2007, 01:24 AM
OMG Layka you said a bunch of stuff that I wanted to say. Get out of my head. And Susan, Thank You Thank You Thank You!

I know I was supposed to answer my own questions but I have been working like a dog this week (and it ain't over yet!) so I'll get to it when I really have time to type and I'm not dead tired.

AlexxaHex
03-11-2007, 01:29 AM
Wow, alot has transpired since my abscence. I just want you to actually hear me out AlexxaHex, no seriously. As you read this don't glance over my statement with a response already prepared, I want you to really hear me out. You said alot of unneccessary comments. Lol, I can take it though because I'm used to people jumping down my throat when I say something that makes them uncomfortable. Apparently I made you feel uneasy.....why.....I dunno;D Why are you repeatdly urging me to "take it". Why do you have a problem with me speaking my mind towards the ill treatment that I may recieve as a black dancer? Why does it bother you? I urge you to take a look at my first post, if you can't find it I will do the leg work for ya. I clearly stated that I hate whiners, I hate people who complain without looking for a way to stimulate change. I believe change starts with discussing the matter at hand. Have you noticed the warm reception I give you EVERY time you post. The reason being is not because I like kissing ass, but I pride myself off of giving people a chance, I'm giving you a chance to understand my plight. The reason being is that I don't dislike you, I don't dislike white people ( my stapefather is white for Christsakes) I want you to understand what we may deal with because through your own experience you can spread the knowledge and love onto other people that I may never be able to reach.

You seem like a good hearted person, but you really seem as though you're fighting the wrong fight. Yes, I truly believe you love black people, but what good is loving me if you're not willing to stand up for me. I'm admittely teary eyed as I type this because your confusion scares me. I wonder how many more people out their are mumbling to themselves "Won't they just get over it" Well, I want to ask you something, why the fuck don't I over hear people asking why jewish people don't get over the Holocaust? Please, I beg of you to tell me why their aren't toms of people who think they're overreacting. Sure, they're skeptics that believe the Holocaust may never have occured, but those are far few and between. Yes, you may experience racisim, no doubt about that.

But my people are still recovering, our egos have been shattered, our men have been raped, I have NO, allow me to repeat NO concept of my ancestory, and I'm judged based off of the melanin of my skin!!! I would choose being an outcast due to tattoos anyday, operative word..CHOICE. It's a big difference, and you suggesting that it's not is hurtful and insulting. Don't be too quick to jump down my throat for calling out zoejane, I said before that I would call out random insensitive comments. Nothing wrong with that, because like I said before YOU have the option of responding back.

I also welcomed Zoejane because I identified with her pain, if you don't believe me go back and read my post. I don't want this to be a "pity party" but who the hell said it was???? This entire community has several posts a day titled "RANT" or "I HAD THE WORST FUCKIN NIGHT" so YOU my dear are actually trying to censor me;D funny how these things play out. Why can't I RANT over how sucky it is to be a black dancer sometimes? I couldn't make this shit up even if I wanted to! I also want women who may deal with discrimination feel welcome to speak about it. If I didn't speak on the racisit shit that I've dealt with do you wanna know how fucked up I would be? Do you even realize that although speaking about it may not "solve" anything just talking about it amongst my peers allows me to continue to love white people. If I was to keep my experiences bottled up inside of me
( like you have suggested, only you sugarcoated it)


I would have been a bitter, evil, hateful person towards white people who would give their life for me.People who don't deserve my ill feelings. And I'll be damned if I take your advice and "move on", to do so would be dismissing the pain that my sistuhs put their are experiencing. This is bigger than you and I Alexxa, right now I'm speaking on behalf of the voiceless. I'm speaking on behalf of those who have died for my freedom, white and black. I will not ignore color related issues and put my ancestors to shame. I'm speaking out on behalf of that beautiful damaged woman who doesn't feel appreciated. I'm speaking out on behalf of the leaders both black and white that fought their asses off to get me this far.

I don't ever want to toss aside others feelings and experiences. Without certain white people freedom would never have exsisted. I acknowledge that, therefore I'm determined to love withou bias. So why is it wrong for me to hold out hope that one day maybe others will join in.

Other people may rant in this forum to relieve stress, so why is it so hard for you to understand that I need to rant over issues of color!!!:O Color related issues shouldn't be tapped danced around, especially by the folk experiencing it. Sure, I ignore racisit comments, theirs a time and place for everything. But if I kept my issues inside, if we all do, it breeds contempt. I love ya'll, I don't want to pass a white person on the street and not be able to relate, What about you? You're really acting as though my statements are irrational, if so I beg for anyone who I may have offended forgiveness. But while you continue to leave in your perfect world, I'll be still searching for a club with the first words out of my mouth being " Do they hire black girls". Much peace to you babydoll, you're not a lost cause. I have faith that just being able to discuss amognst us may bring you closer to the truth.

In the meantime, Relate, Relax, Release. Peace

Wow, Layka. It seems you got me all wrong. I am not telling you what to do or what to say. My problem with YOU is that you appear to be doing this to ME. THAT is the only thing that is making me uneasy. THAT is the major thing I have an issue with. I am not sure if you are aware that your tone is very condescending. This has nothing to do with the topic of the thread but I feel like this entire time you are talking down to me and other posters who offer an opinion you disagree with. You appear to have passive aggressively insulted my intelligence at every turn. Maybe that is not your intention but I am reading between the lines, and very well if my better judgement serves me correctly. Ask someone objective to read your posts if you like. I asked my boyfriend to do the same for me, in case I may be in the wrong about something. The last thing I wanted to do is come here and upset people unnecessarily. But I feel as though I have clearly and intelligently dictated my emotions about the topic and about your verbal treatment of me. If you can't accept that, then I will avoid typing in your threads or in response to you in the future. I am not on here for the sake of argument. I am here because this is a subject I feel strongly about. Some men and women on here like to argue ad nauseum and I avoid talking to them. I hope you are not one of them. I will keep explaining myself, however, until I feel as though most people involved in the discussion can at the very least agree to disagree and move on. I DON'T like having to repeat myself. Please re-read my posts with an open mind if you'd like to extend the same courtesy that I have done with you.

I did not feel this "warm reception" you speak of, I felt like you were giving me a brush off and not truly addressing my statements. Maybe you misunderstood. I'm not here to attack anyone and I am certainly not threatened by anything you say. I don't intend for my words to be threats to anyone either.

And I am also bringing up the question of what WE as a COLLECTIVE of strong women (regardless of race or cultural differences) are going to do about racism amongst the SC industry. I am trying to move onto the next step. If y'all need to stay here and state the obvious, then please, be my guest. I am offering my support. Nothing less than that. If you don't want to listen to what I have to say, then please ignore me. I came here to post because I felt I could empathize.

I don't need to hear a big speech about what black people as a whole have been through. I am an educated person. I paid attention in school, I have heard the words of Dr. King, I've seen the videos of the riots, I have seen photos of the mattress where Fred Hampton lay dying because he was shot by the cops, I have friends in South Central LA and have seen what goes on there (although only a fraction I'm sure). The effects of the pre-civil war era bullshit still linger. It was (is) a travesty and a terribly unjust thing that blacks have had to deal with in the past and present. Hopefully it doesn't have to continue in the future. Unfortunately it will for some time. And I think that everyone can do their part to lessen the damage. For many years I have been interested in black history and I have a very deep and special place in my heart that I have reserved for black artists especially. I may not have been through that same thing exactly, but I do feel pain because I am a person, just like you. I am not separating myself from you. If anyone wants to do that in regards to me and say that I can't understand or that I don't belong "in the club" then they are subscribing to racist ideals!

The obvious truth is that I don't know what it's like to be black (as I have stated previously) and you don't know what it's like to be me either. Simple enough. I am sure you are MORE THAN a black person - you are a PERSON. That's what I'm trying to say. Don't move past that if you don't want to.
I would like to live in a place where everyone is equal. And it's possible if people start changing the way they think. They will teach tolerance to their friends, neighbors and children through their actions. PEACE is possible if you start in your head and heart. I would like more people to join me, to stop focusing on the negative and move past all the racist comments people give out like bad apples. I know it hurts. If you want me to sit here and say that I don't know what pain from discrimination feels like, then you're crazy. I may not know your specific brand of pain, because we all feel differently and have been through unique experiences. I don't know what it's like to be Layka or Susan or Bridgette or Luscious. But I can appreciate the different things you ladies bring to the stage and to my head when I read your thoughts. I can learn from you, just as you can from me.

Chrissy68
03-11-2007, 04:13 AM
i just want to add that this thread has kept me captivated, while most others don't come close.

layka
03-11-2007, 09:24 AM
Wow - so someone tries to be optimistic and have a positive attitude and all of a sudden you label them "idiotic", "narrow minded" and insult their intelligence?

WAY TO GO. You start a thread and expect everyone to think the way you do. And anyone who doesn't is living under a rock, right? You might wanna put your superiority complex in check.

You might have time to "redeem yourself".


I think that zoe jane was saying that focusing on racism and worrying about color only causes problems for everyone involved. It's a little different from burying your head in the sand, but rather looking past it and being the best person/dancer you can be without setting up thought obstacles for yourself because of some perceived prejudice.
If you're gonna sit in the dressing room all night bitching about "Why can't I make money? I must be because I'm [black, white, mexican, indian, american, australian, etc etc etc].", then you're only short changing yourself.





What I am saying is rather than dwell on it, why not try harder to succeed because of it? I think this thread is good because it IS making everyone pissed off. Hell, I'M pissed off about a lot of the racist stuff that has been said here too. WE ALL need to think about this.


Look, I responded off of the above posts you made, especially when you said "rather than dwell on it, why not try harder to succeed" I'm not about to put anymore thought into what you're saying because you keep backtracking your comments and trying to justify them AFTER I have read them. So despite the fact that you said the above comments, you will find a way to explain them away. Whatever, I'm over it. I'm tired of waving the white flag everytime I turn around just to have a mature decent conversation regarding race. If you're uncomfortable with anything I've said please forgive me, but lets move on. Because regardless of how you word it, you're not exactly motivating the masses. Don't read between the lines and try to make a bigger deal out of what I'm saying. I'm making my point very clear. I'm not trying to passively aggresively insult you......who has the time to sit down and think of lengthy ways to insult someone. If that was the case I would be writing sitcoms instead of flashing tits. No girlie, I'm just wittty by nature, and I don't mean to offend you by "insulting you" although I have been dishing out hugs and kind words to you from the start. How about we move on because I'm getting bored, if you want to talk about the issues of race you would've answered my question. Why don't people tell Holocaust victims to move on rather than dwell on it?

layka
03-11-2007, 09:36 AM
Now, back to our regulary scheduled program...lol.

How do you feel we can make progress in discriminatory actions? Is the answer more black owned clubs, constantly audidtion for the clubs a'la lunch counter sit ins, are just wait for the next person to do it because you may not give a damn. Lmao

Miss Luscious, please pm me when their are answers related to the topic of the thread, I'm tired of defending myself.

lexXe
03-11-2007, 10:11 AM
There needs to be more of us in positions of power at every level. That's the only way we'll ever see an end to this. I think we have to aspire to be more than house dancers, we have to work towards becoming people with influence and control so that life is easier for every generation after us. IMO education is a big part of the solution.

From our side of things, we haver to love ourselves!! I know this dancer (WOC) who has so much self hate, she believes she's inferior. I'll catch her in the mirror saying shit like "I want to be light skinned" or "I'm too dark". When I hear this I want to slap her!! The point I'm trying to make is if you don't truly love every inch of yourself and celebrate your black beauty, then don't expect others to. I think she's absolutely gorgeous, but always seems to leave with less than most because of this mentality. One of my regulars told me he finds her beautiful, but would never spend on her because of her bitter attitude. If she changed her way of thinking, I bet my regular would be all over her.

christian211
03-11-2007, 11:08 AM
i just want to add that this thread has kept me captivated, while most others don't come close.

Yes, very much so. Me being a whitey;D really had no idea the extent to which WOC hurt and are descriminated against.
PS- although Mass isn't really a "racist" state, I chose to spend most of my dancing career in a VERY diverse club, mostly b/c it was very down to earth and very fun, more of a relaxed atmosphere. Our clientele was basically older bikers and very young drug dealers. Things, at times did get a little tense in there, but, overall I noticed that ALL the men really just wanted to talk and clown around, with ANY woman, not any of a specific race. There was one really special to me WOC that I worked w/. She was from Alabama, was always smiling, dripping southern charm in her voice, got along w/ everyone. She made pretty good money. She was so pleasant to be around. Made you smile every time. Man, I miss that girl.:(

christian211
03-11-2007, 11:14 AM
This is a little OT, but I think I might be a smidge racist;D Tell me what you think.
I have heard this theory or school of thinking that black men want to date a white girl, kinda like a trophy thing. I heard it so much, that, although I would talk to them at the club, I never asked them for dances:-\ I used to get all paranoid thinking that I was getting used and the such. What's that about? Was I being overly paranoid or what?? I have no idea what that was about!!!

mollyzmoon
03-11-2007, 11:19 AM
Just my $0.02...there is no way I can relate, but...racism makes me feel so awful about people...I grew up so sheltered. I'm Canadian, and grew up mostly in country towns. I think...maybe it's the history, but a lot of racism is much more subtle here. I think CanadianCutie's perspective underlines that...it's not really violent here, but the things I've read about, seen in the media, etc...it just seems like it's worse in the States...I think there's more of history there for it maybe...

...Just to say, until I started dancing, I could count on one hand the number of times I heard racist comments. We had all those Stop Racism! campaigns at school, and we didn't even get it because there was so little of that out in the open. One day I was at a bar, and my friend and I were flirting with these salesmen up from Rochester...this guy told me a joke, and I didn't get it at all. He repeated the punchline, and I looked at him like the dumb little blonde I am and I said "I'm sorry, is the funny part of the joke is that the guy was black and stealing?". I thought, holy shit, this guy is a RACIST! It was like seeing cocaine lines for the first time. Omigod, this is what teacher's warned me about! But it seemed so ridiculous.

THEN I started dancing...this club had a system where you could work whenever you wanted, except if you were black. They would put a little star next to a black girl's name, and ration the amount of black girls per shift. Seriously. I couldn't believe it. I asked why, and they said some shit about more black girls would lead to more black guys, and gangs. Uh-huh. In Ottawa. Loads of gangs. You know who the gangs are around here? Hells Angels. White guys who can come in and scare me into allowing some free ass grab whenever they want. So much bullshit, ohmygod. My friend, probably one of the hottest dancers I've ever worked with, she just put up with it. She's from Kenya, and she'd bitch a little to some of the other girls, and they'd say "Oh well, it's maybe a good thing, you know? Because only some guys like the black girls...Hell, I'd wish they'd ration the number of blondes per shift, etc etc". !!! WTF?! It just makes me despair. So I left that club later, and I haven't met up with so much blatant racism in other clubs. I've had customers say "Oh, there's lots of black girls in here tonight, eh?" It's like Susan said- I'm white, so I'm supposed to sympathize. It just boggles my mind. It's insane. These are rational people...it's like professing to Nazism. It's...wow. My heart goes out to you. I feel like a pussy now for not speaking out against it more at that other place, where the management bullshit was so obvious. It's not like they'd ration the number of Asian dancers per shift...and I never understood why more girls wouldn't speak up about it. It's really sad.

I mean, I've dealt with cultural shit being a Anglophone dancing in Quebec. French guys would be all "you work in Quebec, you should SPEAK FRENCH (better than I could)". There's a lot of Quebec/ rest-of-Canada tension...some guys would just flat out not talk to me when they could tell I wasn't Quebecois. Maybe it cost me a dance or two, but IT IS NOT THE SAME THING. There's something about being judged on the colour of your skin that's so perniciously Medieval, and also so REAL that's just...unbearably awful. I'm a philosophy student, and racism is about the most irrational thing a person can come up with. It makes me very sad. If there's anything I could do? I know I'm gonna be more vocal about it in future, meek as I am.

layka
03-11-2007, 11:23 AM
There needs to be more of us in positions of power at every level. That's the only way we'll ever see an end to this. I think we have to aspire to be more than house dancers, we have to work towards becoming people with influence and control so that life is easier for every generation after us. IMO education is a big part of the solution.

From our side of things, we haver to love ourselves!! I know this dancer (WOC) who has so much self hate, she believes she's inferior. I'll catch her in the mirror saying shit like "I want to be light skinned" or "I'm too dark". When I hear this I want to slap her!! The point I'm trying to make is if you don't truly love every inch of yourself and celebrate your black beauty, then don't expect others to. I think she's absolutely gorgeous, but always seems to leave with less than most because of this mentality. One of my regulars told me he finds her beautiful, but would never spend on her because of her bitter attitude. If she changed her way of thinking, I bet my regular would be all over her.

I couldn't agree with you anymore. Their are so many women of color who hate their color. I feel like slapping women like that all the time, but in time I realized that telling them to get their shit together often does more harm than good. It will take time to change the deep wounds that some of us have simply because it took a long time to develop them. I can only hope that women like her will always meet a strong sista like you that can indirectly show her how it's not a sin to be black. And you're So right about us having to continue to strive for better things for the next generations. That's why I don't just walk around and ingnore ignorant comments, I truly believe that every generation is responsible to perpuate change for the next. One day club managers shouldn't feel as though it's okay to have a colored girl hiring quota, that's racisit as fuck, and just ignoring the issue solves nothing!

layka
03-11-2007, 11:26 AM
Yes, very much so. Me being a whitey;D really had no idea the extent to which WOC hurt and are descriminated against.
PS- although Mass isn't really a "racist" state, I chose to spend most of my dancing career in a VERY diverse club, mostly b/c it was very down to earth and very fun, more of a relaxed atmosphere. Our clientele was basically older bikers and very young drug dealers. Things, at times did get a little tense in there, but, overall I noticed that ALL the men really just wanted to talk and clown around, with ANY woman, not any of a specific race. There was one really special to me WOC that I worked w/. She was from Alabama, was always smiling, dripping southern charm in her voice, got along w/ everyone. She made pretty good money. She was so pleasant to be around. Made you smile every time. Man, I miss that girl.:(

And you know what, that's why I feel it's neccesary to speak about these issues. You undoubtedly had no idea what ill treatment some women of color have experienced ITC, well, just trying to get in the damn door, lmao. But I'm glad that you're here because the only way change can take place is if we are just a lil more aware of what's going on. It seems that an ongoing problem isn't the clientele, it's the narrow minded management.

layka
03-11-2007, 11:35 AM
Just my $0.02...there is no way I can relate, but...racism makes me feel so awful about people...I grew up so sheltered. I'm Canadian, and grew up mostly in country towns. I think...maybe it's the history, but a lot of racism is much more subtle here. I think CanadianCutie's perspective underlines that...it's not really violent here, but the things I've read about, seen in the media, etc...it just seems like it's worse in the States...I think there's more of history there for it maybe...

...Just to say, until I started dancing, I could count on one hand the number of times I heard racist comments. We had all those Stop Racism! campaigns at school, and we didn't even get it because there was so little of that out in the open. One day I was at a bar, and my friend and I were flirting with these salesmen up from Rochester...this guy told me a joke, and I didn't get it at all. He repeated the punchline, and I looked at him like the dumb little blonde I am and I said "I'm sorry, is the funny part of the joke is that the guy was black and stealing?". I thought, holy shit, this guy is a RACIST! It was like seeing cocaine lines for the first time. Omigod, this is what teacher's warned me about! But it seemed so ridiculous.

THEN I started dancing...this club had a system where you could work whenever you wanted, except if you were black. They would put a little star next to a black girl's name, and ration the amount of black girls per shift. Seriously. I couldn't believe it. I asked why, and they said some shit about more black girls would lead to more black guys, and gangs. Uh-huh. In Ottawa. Loads of gangs. You know who the gangs are around here? Hells Angels. White guys who can come in and scare me into allowing some free ass grab whenever they want. So much bullshit, ohmygod. My friend, probably one of the hottest dancers I've ever worked with, she just put up with it. She's from Kenya, and she'd bitch a little to some of the other girls, and they'd say "Oh well, it's maybe a good thing, you know? Because only some guys like the black girls...Hell, I'd wish they'd ration the number of blondes per shift, etc etc". !!! WTF?! It just makes me despair. So I left that club later, and I haven't met up with so much blatant racism in other clubs. I've had customers say "Oh, there's lots of black girls in here tonight, eh?" It's like Susan said- I'm white, so I'm supposed to sympathize. It just boggles my mind. It's insane. These are rational people...it's like professing to Nazism. It's...wow. My heart goes out to you. I feel like a pussy now for not speaking out against it more at that other place, where the management bullshit was so obvious. It's not like they'd ration the number of Asian dancers per shift...and I never understood why more girls wouldn't speak up about it. It's really sad.

I mean, I've dealt with cultural shit being a Anglophone dancing in Quebec. French guys would be all "you work in Quebec, you should SPEAK FRENCH (better than I could)". There's a lot of Quebec/ rest-of-Canada tension...some guys would just flat out not talk to me when they could tell I wasn't Quebecois. Maybe it cost me a dance or two, but IT IS NOT THE SAME THING. There's something about being judged on the colour of your skin that's so perniciously Medieval, and also so REAL that's just...unbearably awful. I'm a philosophy student, and racism is about the most irrational thing a person can come up with. It makes me very sad. If there's anything I could do? I know I'm gonna be more vocal about it in future, meek as I am.


Aww, your support and awareness is so genuine, that in itself is enough to start change. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I can't dispel racisim just by posting about it, but awareness is contagious. Just to hear you ladies open up about your own experiences and willingness to stand up for a cause is so fuckin heart warming. Sometimes when I bring up topics like this I feel like I'm waititng to be hung and the witnesses are some of my closest friends and family. It's hard to deal with these issues, but just being aware of them is a huge step in the right direction. One day I'll make the time to actually speak on behalf of minority dancers, I really want the issues to be heard, but not in a way to make random innocent white people feel guilty. My beef is with club manangement and black women that are ALLOWING themselves to be treated any kind of way. My dignity is worth so much more than a few dollars. You are already stimulating change, you are already passed the stage that so many people ( both white and black) are stuck in, and that's denial. Congratulations baby, you're a revolutionary in the making.8)

xBlackBettyx
03-11-2007, 01:27 PM
Now, back to our regulary scheduled program...lol.

How do you feel we can make progress in discriminatory actions? Is the answer more black owned clubs, constantly audidtion for the clubs a'la lunch counter sit ins, are just wait for the next person to do it because you may not give a damn. Lmao

Miss Luscious, please pm me when their are answers related to the topic of the thread, I'm tired of defending myself.

Maybe not black owned clubs but a more racially diverse mix of hiring managers and such.

AlexxaHex
03-11-2007, 05:17 PM
I'm sorry my point was lost here. I tried my best to communicate my feelings and thoughts. I never wanted to offend anybody but there is obviously too much heat attached to this topic and I was wrong to think that people might actually agree with me. I should have known that I'd get this kind of response. I'm not trying to "rally the masses". I just want my opinion to be heard, which is why I take the time to post here in the first place.
It's obvious we want the same thing, but we're getting caught up in semantics and different approaches. This thread is making me exhausted and I don't have the strength to defend my point over and over anymore.

Good luck to you.

bambi69
03-11-2007, 06:27 PM
i've never been a booty clapping girl;) i don't hate on it either. Have to admit it shouldn't be done for the whole dance, neither should every dancer in the club do it. I've been a sexy dancer knows how to shake it. I like some pole tricks thrown in to boot. I do mostly rock and rap thing when i dance. I like both genres, and will do one rap, and one rock song on stage.

I've been asked a lot about my hair since i could talk::). Its all mine, very long & naturally curly with highlights. I don't get custys asking about my hair very often. My "look" that custys/etc has ranged from the Caribbean, Africa, South Amer. I could care less I just want my money}:D

I live in Los Angeles, and basically retired since there's shit all money here, Especially for WOC. I did pretty good in Nassau(strip clubs are illegal there by the way) and St Thomas,VI(club 75 is a whorehouse,and not much $ even for a working vacation.)

I'm considering ATL, Mississipi(family/friends live there), Europe(Not London), or Houston to work for up to 3 wks.

xBlackBettyx
03-12-2007, 09:18 AM
(Side Question)

How many clubs did you girls have to go through until you got hired at one?

layka
03-12-2007, 01:49 PM
My lucky number is always three. I'm thick so I know that most clubs may shy away from me because of my size.( thick a la size 12 on a good day, lol) But if I'm familar with the city I usually have an idea of what club I will have the best chances at getting hired at, and I'll try there first.

Miss_Luscious
03-12-2007, 04:35 PM
When I was smaller I could get hired much easier at clubs. I guess the light skin and small frame worked in my favor. Now that I'm a bit more curvy I have been turned down by 2 out of the 3 clubs I auditioned at. So maybe it's about size and shape as well as race. They can't handle big black booty.

cinammonkisses
03-12-2007, 04:38 PM
Umm the only time I got turned down was when I tried to work during superbowl in Detroit last year. I got turned away by 3 clubs before I just gave up and went home.

miabella
03-12-2007, 04:45 PM
when i switched to nude clubs in houston, i was hired much more easily. i would pretty much get turned down or told days only at all topless clubs i would try in houston. i was told by some mgrs that i looked too clean or innocent to work, but usually it was 'too many girls'.

the exception was heartbreakers down in galveston, which is topless. they actually hire colorblindly. you just have to be hot and/or have big boobs. that's it. but because they never turn down a hot chick, the custy-dancer ratio is very unfavorable.

AlexxaHex
03-12-2007, 08:41 PM
One more tiny thing, actually...
I was reading the "other black dancer" thread and found this. Oddly enough, LexXe was able to communicate the SAME thing I was trying to say, only she didn't get flamed:


If you walk in and feel inferior, guess what? people will pick up on that. Who cares if a custy doesn't like black women, cuz for everyone that doesn't, there are much more who do. Don't focus on this shit, focus on the ones who will make you rich. I've faced my fair share of racism/stereotypes but I refuse to let this change the way I feel about myself and affect my hustle. This is the world we live in. We can't change others people, but we can change the way we view situations and work on understanding and loving ourselves. Love yourself and keep your hustle strong, this is the key to success in my opinion.

layka
03-12-2007, 10:20 PM
One more tiny thing, actually...
I was reading the "other black dancer" thread and found this. Oddly enough, LexXe was able to communicate the SAME thing I was trying to say, only she didn't get flamed:

Damn AlexxaHex:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: , let it go girl. I think it's safe to say that nobody within this thread is upset at you, seriously. And come to think of it, the majority of the posters in that thread aren't partcipating in this one. Their are a ton of new members in this thread that probably haven't read Lexxe contribution to the other thread.
Real talk, you're with child and I truly don't want you to be upset at all regarding the past posts. Your opinion and presence is more than welcome here, we all just have to remember that we as a whole can only go off of what's typed. I don't have the patience to read in between the lines, that's why I questioned zoejane's stance. Not out of malice, but I honestly didn't understand what the hell she was talking about;D

*passes alexxahex the blunt*...........shit, we don't have a blunt smilie, just feel me on this one.
:bong:

layka
03-12-2007, 10:37 PM
*snatches the blunt back, remembers she's preggers*

:bong: ( This that thriller killer, puff puff pass Canadiancutie and Miss Luscious, ya'll stingy)

Here ladies, take a hit of this and lets keep this shit rolling. AlexxaHex, you just vibe off of contact for the moment j/k

Okay, I'm curious to find out how you all viewed the world of dancing prior to dancing and were you or were you not dissapointed. Here's my piece.

I remember thinking that the world of dancing in different manners. Okay, for example, I remember thinking that only white dancers danced elegant and black dancers HAD to dance raunchy inorder to get paid.;D :rotfl: I seriously had never met nor seen on those damn videos an elegant black dancer. Or a black dancer that could dance her ass off to alternative music. I hadn't ever seen a white girl shake her ass, nor dance to urban music. Lol, that's what I get for watching Lifetime and Playa's club so young. Of course now I know that all of the above is false, stupid stereotypes... but ya'll, ya girl was so naive to the different styles that a black woman could work with without compromising her income if she found a club that would work with her. I wasn't dissapointed, I was actually excited as hell that their were other options.

AlexxaHex
03-12-2007, 11:26 PM
Damn AlexxaHex:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: , let it go girl. I think it's safe to say that nobody within this thread is upset at you, seriously. And come to think of it, the majority of the posters in that thread aren't partcipating in this one. Their are a ton of new members in this thread that probably haven't read Lexxe contribution to the other thread.
Real talk, you're with child and I truly don't want you to be upset at all regarding the past posts. Your opinion and presence is more than welcome here, we all just have to remember that we as a whole can only go off of what's typed. I don't have the patience to read in between the lines, that's why I questioned zoejane's stance. Not out of malice, but I honestly didn't understand what the hell she was talking about;D

*passes alexxahex the blunt*...........shit, we don't have a blunt smilie, just feel me on this one.
:bong:

Girl seriously, it's been hard for me to let this one go. I am caught between wanting to speak my piece (which is unfortunately somewhat contrary or misunderstood to other posters here) and maintaining peace because I don't want to burn bridges. Truthfully, it's hard to read each others' emotions sometimes in print. Maybe some people automatically get a "feeling" from another poster's imagined identity that isn't even true. I don't know you and you don't know me. In real life, we might be totally cool with each other. Who knows for sure?
When I'm passionate about something, yes, it does upset me and I can get a bit relentless. Even more truthfully this thread has really moved me to the point of real frustration. I can't say exactly why it's affected me so much, but I suppose it's my own choice to become so involved. I have a bit more time on my hands (being pregnant and all) to devote to responses so it probably seems like I'm going overboard.

I hope everyone here finds the strength to conquer any type of adversity they may be feeling or sharing, whether it's some asshole club owner, asshat customer or their own fears. This whole forum is in place so that we can work together to make our conditions better and more productive for all dancers. How cool is it that we are willing to share that with each other when most dancers are stereotyped as mercilessly awful bitches?

So if you want you can pass the blunt to my man since he's the one who's been putting up with me bitching about this damn thread. lol

Miss_Luscious
03-13-2007, 05:00 AM
One more tiny thing, actually...
I was reading the "other black dancer" thread and found this. Oddly enough, LexXe was able to communicate the SAME thing I was trying to say, only she didn't get flamed:


Yes, You do keep going. You do not let it get it you down, this is true. My problem was your use of the word "perceived" and the assuption that we sit in the dressing room and complain about making no money and then just blame it on our race. But like I said, I really do like you!

AlexxaHex
03-13-2007, 05:35 AM
Yes, You do keep going. You do not let it get it you down, this is true. My problem was your use of the word "perceived" and the assuption that we sit in the dressing room and complain about making no money and then just blame it on our race. But like I said, I really do like you!

I didn't mean you or anyone in this thread specifically. Maybe it was a bit of an exaggeration to use that as an example but I have seen it happen in the clubs so I was using that to add illustration to my point. If someone here was guilty of that, then I wouldn't know about it. Nobody here claimed to do that so I wouldn't assume anyone specifically was doing that. Speaking on the girls that do complain in the dressing room all defeated, I really want to slap some of those girls because they are so beautiful and classy and they continuously let this fear of failure get them down, when they are more than capable of earning money. It's really frustrating to see. That kind of negativity doesn't need to exist. It was something I wanted to bring up, but I guess it sounded bad to you. If you are not one of these girls that do that, then good for you! Seriously.

I'm not saying there is not discrimination against blacks in the clubs at all. I'm just saying that we can all work together to make it better (whites, blacks, asians, latinas, etc) and it's imperative that you go into it with a healthy mind so you have the best advantage possible.

Believe me, I am guilty of it too. There have been days where I just get so exhausted and mentally beat down from having to explain my "look" or not getting tipped on stage when everybody else is or fending off more grabby custys than everyone else seems to be because they think that just because I am a freak that I must have bad self esteem and they can get away with more. I have had guys tell me that goth girls have low self esteem to my face and then tried to grab my tits/ass. So if anyone is guilty of bitching and feeling bad about that kind of shit at work, I can relate for sure. I'm not perfect in the way I deal but I'm trying to get past it too.

LilSweetVixen
03-13-2007, 10:36 AM
To be real with you all, you said be real, I'm not having any kids that aren't mulatto. I just think it's very hard to defeat the beauty standards. I see that Betty has the same problems which comes as a shock, which is why they're not having kids who aren't quadroons. I don't see how it's possible to live in the Americas and not have a color complex. Yes I think I'm beautiful, guys of all races think I'm beautiful, I have three dates with three different white hotties this week. I would never bleach my skin even if it were safe. And I'm attracted to dark women. But I want to be on the safe side. I want my future girls to really know they're the IT girls, not have to wonder. So that's my realness.

On a positive note, what are we going to do about it? We can talk talk talk, but I think this thread was about solutions.. We have one life to live as far as we can tell, and you know the saying only two things you need to do in this life: stay black and die. I understood perfectly where Alexxa was coming from, it was the whole pop psychology angle of creating your own reality and positive thinking, which she has applied to being a niche market. But I also understood perfectly why people were upset because it sounded like she thought it was all in our minds. It's not in our minds. It happens in other communities. All over the world women want to look white. Asians get eyelids added in to make their eyes rounder. They admit that it's to look more Western. Indigenous Mexicans bleach their skin and die their hair blond and add blue contacts, even though some call themselves "Aztec Goddesses" the way some dark women call themselves "Nubian Princesses". The word guera in Spanish means light skinned and pretty. India, same thing. Brazil has to be the worst for black women. They have a proverb: blacks for work, mulattas for sex, whites for wives. Black Brazilian models need not apply, no blacks or reds on TV. Rich black guys not only will not date someone who isn't blond, they may start to call themselves white even if they're dark brown.

Which brings me to my point, which was not about stating problems, it was about solutions. Brazilians are the most beautiful black women and they're not all mixed. So I think we can learn from them, considering they have it worse:

1. Take care of the way you look. Some black women let themselves go because they know they'll never look like Pamela Anderson. Notice how there are more fat black women and who seem more comfortable with their weight. Well Pamela Anderson is now over 40, has she let herself go because she'll never look like Pamela Anderson at 20? Guys of all races can see the difference between a thin, toned, round bootied black girl with beautiful hair and Mammy. ::) Black Brazilians get waxes, nails always done, make their hair look exotic, and they stay in shape. I personally think losing a little booty is worth the risk of being a little thinner, because black guys like thin girls moreso than nonblack guys like fatter girls.

2. Happy aura. Brazil will always be third world. But they call themselves "the country of the future". They have to be the most optimistic people I've ever come across. You have a bad day at the club, promise yourself tomorrow will be better for one reason or another. Brazilians have a whole culture dedicated to happiness which is why they smile more. If you look bitter you're just perpetuating a stereotype that might even be true. It's not gonna make you money trust me but you might make money by looking affable. And if you don't at least you're happy.

3. Enjoy what you do. Like the renowned drag queen Dorian Corey said at the end of Paris is Burning "pay your dues and enjoy it. And if you shoot and arrow that goes up in the air, hooray for you". Not enjoying it will not make you more money will it? But enjoying it might make you more money, so why not? And if you don't make a lot of money you won't feel as crushed.

4. Build confidence. The only way to build confidence is to try. Those cheesy affirmations or faking confidence only work for a few hours. Real confidence that lasts is built by real world experience. Nothing beats a trial but a failure. You can start at a black club which is easier to build confidence and then work your way over to a mixed club if they bring in more revenue for the girls or both to get the best of both worlds.

Well that's my 2 cents. ;)

TracyCharm
03-13-2007, 11:09 AM
To be real with you all, you said be real, I'm not having any kids that aren't mulatto. I just think it's very hard to defeat the beauty standards. I see that Betty has the same problems which comes as a shock, which is why they're not having kids who aren't quadroons. I don't see how it's possible to live in the Americas and not have a color complex. Yes I think I'm beautiful, guys of all races think I'm beautiful, I have three dates with three different white hotties this week. I would never bleach my skin even if it were safe. And I'm attracted to dark women. But I want to be on the safe side. I want my future girls to really know they're the IT girls, not have to wonder.

To be honest I think this is quite sad. Just because you are mixed does NOT mean that you automatically will be confident that you are hot stuff. Plenty of mixed girls have lots of issues, maybe even more so than straight up black girls.

layka
03-13-2007, 11:28 AM
To be real with you all, you said be real, I'm not having any kids that aren't mulatto. I just think it's very hard to defeat the beauty standards. I see that Betty has the same problems which comes as a shock, which is why they're not having kids who aren't quadroons. I don't see how it's possible to live in the Americas and not have a color complex. Yes I think I'm beautiful, guys of all races think I'm beautiful, I have three dates with three different white hotties this week. I would never bleach my skin even if it were safe. And I'm attracted to dark women. But I want to be on the safe side. I want my future girls to really know they're the IT girls, not have to wonder. So that's my realness.


4. Build confidence. The only way to build confidence is to try. Those cheesy affirmations or faking confidence only work for a few hours. Real confidence that lasts is built by real world experience. Nothing beats a trial but a failure. You can start at a black club which is easier to build confidence and then work your way over to a mixed club if they bring in more revenue for the girls or both to get the best of both worlds.

Well that's my 2 cents. ;)

I agree with you on many levels as far as confidence building, but I'm also disturbed. Let's get this straight first, I'm in no way in a position to judge, I'm not judging, but I want to ask ya a question. How can we repair the damage done, and build confidence if you are still uneasy with raising a black woman. Don't get me wrong, I see the angle you're coming from, I understand it's scary. But instead of going out of your way to have a mulatto child so they will know they're "IT" why not allow love to fall where it may. Are you really that nervous to have a black child? I have never felt "OUT", I've been discriminated against, and have questioned my beauty like most women, but I've never felt out of style. To the contrary, I think black women are becoming more in vogue, I call it the forbidden fruit syndrome. For years, older white gentlemen never dated black women for fear of the stigma attatched, but now that we're not forbidden fruit anymore we're not taboo. Mixed children are gorgeous, but you will still have to gamble that your child will look "IT". She may come out looking like Mariah Carey, or she may be light skinned/pale with ethnic features. And boy, if you thought dealing with the confusion of being solely black was hard enough, your little girl will have to deal with the confusion of not fitting in. She may WANT to look black, or more white, who knows, but beauty shouldn't ever be a sacfrice that extent. How will we be able to encourage others to Love ourselves when we want look to our children for answers. I'm sure that you're still dealing with this, thank you for keeping it real. But I'm curious to know what it would take for you to re think your position ( out of pure curiosity)

TracyCharm
03-13-2007, 11:34 AM
And for the record, I am not against IR dating, I am in an IR relationship myself, but I think the worst reason to be in an IR relationship is for the sake of having "pretty babies."

You need to be confident and love yourself first before you can even think of passing any on to children, no matter what color. Plenty of white and mixed kids have their own issues.

PleasureVictim
03-13-2007, 02:30 PM
Wow LilSweetVixen , I'm impressed that you put that out there seeing as to many people it's pretty much a sign of 'betrayal' in our community to admit you want mixed children over black ones. It's not something I would do, but I can understand.

Even when a person isn't all that attractive (not all mixed kids are cute but I will admit it is hard-pressed to find one that is not)the fact that they are light or have certain features people WILL see them as better looking. I can't fault a mom for wanting a beautiful child. It is sad that that is the route some have to take.

On the flip side, I know of white women who want babies with more 'color'. They think that is beautiful. I hear it all the time. (I live in a military town and I can't begin to count the amount of black/white children. They certainly outnumber the white/asian mix around here). There certainly isn't any outrage against their desires (at least not from blacks) so why should there be any for wanting the reverse?

PleasureVictim
03-13-2007, 02:45 PM
im hesitant to post in this thread, so i have been lurking and reading. philly is a very racially integrated city. jayda can elaborate on this one, but our city is approx 43% black, 45% white, 8% latino 4% other. i have seen a lot of racist stuff go down, both in and out of clubs. i have to say, what canadian cutie said about types of guys is true for me, too. i joke around that i'm not a black man's white girl. i happen to live in a very black neighborhood, and am totally the lone white girl on the block. but, leaving for work sat night i had a totally odd experience. a woman walking in front of me (with another guy in front of her, walking down my st) said under her breath but loud enough for he and i to hear, "how you gonna live in this neighborhood round all these niggas? *laugh* " and i was shocked. i repeated it to a neighbor who shook his head and said, "well that's because on ****** street we don't see color." so, i ask, does it bother you black dancers when a white stripper "invades" a black club? (i say invades only because that's what this woman clearly thought i was doing, living here.)
i hope no one takes offense, i tried to phrase this right so that my true feelings were coming across clearly.

oh as for my ass, well, i have definitely had more than one guy tell me that i was built like a sista. ;D



It doesn't bother me at all personally. I've worked in a black club in SC and every so often we have white dancers come in to give it a shot. No one is upset by it in the least, and if they are they keep it to themselves. Of course, this will not be the same experience everywhere. As long as you can dance to the music and have a behind- you should do well or average what others are doing. Very rarely have I seen white dancers at my club not with a customer chatting it up or making money.

lexXe
03-13-2007, 05:01 PM
To be real with you all, you said be real, I'm not having any kids that aren't mulatto. I just think it's very hard to defeat the beauty standards. I see that Betty has the same problems which comes as a shock, which is why they're not having kids who aren't quadroons. I don't see how it's possible to live in the Americas and not have a color complex. Yes I think I'm beautiful, guys of all races think I'm beautiful, I have three dates with three different white hotties this week. I would never bleach my skin even if it were safe. And I'm attracted to dark women. But I want to be on the safe side. I want my future girls to really know they're the IT girls, not have to wonder. So that's my realness.



I'm sorry but this statement makes me sick!! :O How can you say it's not possible to live in the Americas and not have a colour complex!! I love my chocolate skin and wouldn't want to be any lighter!! In fact, I love my skin even more in the summer because it's richer, smoother and more delicious!! I'm sorry but this mentality is part of the problem. How the hell do you expect others to love and appreciate your beauty if you can't see it and accept it. You can try to tell me you do, but saying what you did about your future children totally contradicts that. I was raised in a home where my parents celebrated my black beauty and as a result, have grown into a proud black woman. Regardless of what the media says I have self love and I thank my family for instilling this in me at a very young age. We have to teach our children that they're beautiful and rid ourselves of the fucked up belief that lighter is better off. By saying what you only perpetuates this belief.

lexXe
03-13-2007, 05:06 PM
I am in no way trying to attack my beautiful light skinned or bi-racial sistas, I just think it's important for us darker beauties to love our self and not feel inferior to those who are lighter. This means being proud of how we look and not wanting our children to be lighter because we think its better.

AristtaRoxxx
03-13-2007, 08:42 PM
To be real with you all, you said be real, I'm not having any kids that aren't mulatto. I just think it's very hard to defeat the beauty standards. I see that Betty has the same problems which comes as a shock, which is why they're not having kids who aren't quadroons. I don't see how it's possible to live in the Americas and not have a color complex. Yes I think I'm beautiful, guys of all races think I'm beautiful, I have three dates with three different white hotties this week. I would never bleach my skin even if it were safe. And I'm attracted to dark women. But I want to be on the safe side. I want my future girls to really know they're the IT girls, not have to wonder. So that's my realness.


First of all I know what you are saying, sometimes I look at my boyfriend (dark skinned Mexican) and think that I don't want to have kids with him because they might be too dark. Don't get me wrong I am not saying dark skinned people can't be gorgeous (my best friend is Nigerian and she is one of the prettiest people I know), but I just would rather my kid have the same color as me or lighter. But you are very mistaken when you say that mixed girls don't have to wonder if they are "IT" girls. I am pretty sure everyone questions this one time or another no matter their skin color. Also just because they would only be half black that doesn't even make a difference in some peoples eyes. People refer to me as black all the time even though I am 1/2 black 1/2 white (which annoys the hell out of me because they basically are ignoring half of me). Anyway after a while I realized that when I have a child (when I am ready of course) it won't matter what color he/she and I will love he/she regardless.

Miss_Luscious
03-14-2007, 05:52 AM
As a light skinned black woman I also object to the notion that lighter skin makes for an easier life. I am not accepted as black because I am too light. I can not "pass" for white because of my hair, facial features and body type. I am stuck in this limbo. I often wanted to be darker so my black people would stop ridiculing me about being "yella" or a "redbone". I hate it when a white person comes up to me and holds their arm up to mine and says "I'm darker than you, you're not black." It happens often. It makes me feel like shit because I am once again reminded of how I do not fit in anywhere.

layka
03-14-2007, 06:09 AM
As a light skinned black woman I also object to the notion that lighter skin makes for an easier life. I am not accepted as black because I am too light. I can not "pass" for white because of my hair, facial features and body type. I am stuck in this limbo. I often wanted to be darker so my black people would stop ridiculing me about being "yella" or a "redbone". I hate it when a white person comes up to me and holds their arm up to mine and says "I'm darker than you, you're not black." It happens often. It makes me feel like shit because I am once again reminded of how I do not fit in anywhere.

:hug: Phuck them! I can't stand to hear black people who hate on other black people because of their complexion. WTF? To be called "yella" and "redbone" is just as offensive as a darker black being called "mammy" or "tar baby". My oldest sister is your complexion and I've seen the prejudices that she has had to deal with. The oldest on being that ALL light skinned black women are stuck up. That's a crock of shit! To label EVERY single light skinned person as stuck up or bougeise ( DC slang) is not only wrong, but lightly suggesting and perpuating the myth that dark black women are inferior. I love that our race is a kalediscope of colors, it makes me proud. But to hear that you still feel that way pisses me off. Arrggghhh, the shit that some of us still deal with boggles my mind. It's 2007, damn near twenty ten 2010 and we're still hung up on being jealous of each other. Damn shame. Miss Luscious you have the best of both worlds, and whenever someone makes you feel uncomfortable remind yourself of that. I'm not implying inferiority, but you have to remember that some of our people are still stuck in 1865. You aren't a house nigga, I'm not a field nigga, our own people need to shut the fuck up with these stupid nicknames.>:(

Miss_Luscious
03-14-2007, 06:26 AM
:hug: Thank you Layka. That's why I love you!:hug:

TracyCharm
03-14-2007, 07:06 AM
Wow LilSweetVixen , I'm impressed that you put that out there seeing as to many people it's pretty much a sign of 'betrayal' in our community to admit you want mixed children over black ones. It's not something I would do, but I can understand.


I don't see it as a sign of betrayl, I just think it's a foolish reason to bring another human being into this world. I am a black woman in a relationship with a white man and more than half of my last couple of boyfriends have been non-black. The chances of me having mixed babies are quite high but I am not with a white man for the sake of having mixed kids. I am with my man because I love him and no matter if I end up with a white, black, hispanic, or asian dude and my kids end up the whitest ivory or the darkest black. I want my children to grow up confident and strong and to know that they are loved regardless of pigmentation. I feel like if someone has their own neurosises about color that they WILL pass them on to their children regardless of how the children end up looking. More people need to do a personal inventory of themselves before they start to think they will raise another person who will be completely dependent on them.

I feel the same way about white women who think are with a black man solely for the reason of producing offspring with a "permanent tan". We are talking about human beings here, not fashion statements or the latest new toy. (And I think a lot of people with mixed kids treat them this way.) People should have kids with someone because they love the other person and think that they would be a good parent.

Does anyone have any evidence that mixed children have a more positive self image than black children? I have worked and volunteered for years as a conselor for children and I am aware of what issues they go to. I have seen some of the most beautiful mixed people have some of the worst self esteem and self confidence issues. I have seen plenty of mixed girls think of themselves as ugly because people are always comparing them to their white mothers. I have also seen mixed girls wish that they looked either more white or black because they will fit into a group more. I have seen mixed boys be angry and frustrated and act out because they didn't think that they were considered as masculine as a pure black man.. But the worst is I have seen some mixed people close to suicide and even a couple of mixed kids did commit suicide because of these issues. I remember this one beautiful 16-year-old mixed girl named Tina with red hair and green eyes who hanged herself because she thought she looked like a freak. She felt like black was inferior to white and she hated herself for being part black. Her parents were extremely color struck. I have seen a lot less black people with these issues because they are not being constantly compared to white people and their parents tend not to be as color struck as many mixed people's parents.

A positive self image comes from good parenting first and foremost. And the parents have to have a good self image about themselves. It won't matter if you look like Halle Berry if your parents have issues. (BTW, Halle Berry has a lot of mental health and self-esteem issues herself.) If you still have your own color issues to work out or are going to live some vicarious light existence through your children, I don't think you should bother having kids. I don't want to see any more Tinas.

If you think having mixed kids is some type of magic pill for having kids with less issues, you are gravely mistaken.

layka
03-14-2007, 09:59 AM
^^^ That's deep and on point. Wow...

lexXe
03-14-2007, 10:36 AM
I am a black woman in a relationship with a white man and more than half of my last couple of boyfriends have been non-black. The chances of me having mixed babies are quite high but I am not with a white man for the sake of having mixed kids. I am with my man because I love him and no matter if I end up with a white, black, hispanic, or asian dude and my kids end up the whitest ivory or the darkest black. I want my children to grow up confident and strong and to know that they are loved regardless of pigmentation. I feel like if someone has their own neurosises about color that they WILL pass them on to their children regardless of how the children end up looking. More people need to do a personal inventory of themselves before they start to think they will raise another person who will be completely dependent on them.


Thank you for saying this, I completely agree!!

AlexxaHex
03-14-2007, 05:59 PM
^^^ That's deep and on point. Wow...

Seriously. I was moved by that, Tracy.

LilSweetVixen
03-15-2007, 03:40 PM
But I'm curious to know what it would take for you to re think your position ( out of pure curiosity)

I wouldn't take much for me to rethink my position. I never said I didn't like the way I looked for example, it would just be nice to know my children would be treated better than me. They wouldn't have boyfriends saying their family said they weren't light enough to date. As for them not fitting in the same thing happens to oreos who are dark so it wouldn't make a difference. I'm not having kids for another 10 years if ever. So no I'm not IR dating just to have a sperm donor, I still date black and Latin guys. Don't go to Latin America though because I swear I'm militant compared to the black people over there. *shrug*

JustJayda
03-15-2007, 04:09 PM
:hug: Phuck them! I can't stand to hear black people who hate on other black people because of their complexion. WTF? To be called "yella" and "redbone" is just as offensive as a darker black being called "mammy" or "tar baby".


Hmmm, 4 real??? I never thought of it that way. I'll admit I'm quick to describe somebody as a redbone. I don't say tar baby, rather chocolate etc.
Guess I need to check myself, i never thought it was offensive!

cinammonkisses
03-15-2007, 04:38 PM
I wouldn't take much for me to rethink my position. I never said I didn't like the way I looked for example, it would just be nice to know my children would be treated better than me.

I've been debating if I were going to respond in this issue, but I just couldn't stand quiet for yet another day.

In all honesty LSV, I really hope that when you do decide to have children, that you have them with a man that you love. Not because he's light enough or has "good enough blood" to make your children look better. And for you to sit here and say, "it would just be nice to know my children would be treated better than me" is really for lack of a better word ignorant on your part. How can having biracial children make their life anybetter? Hell, I've seen ugly black, white, asian, latino, biracial kids..light skin, light eyes, and "good" hair doesn't necessarily make you look better.

I think you need to take a step back and take a look at yourself. You obviously have some hidden self-hatred sunk deep down inside. You can agree or disagree (I'm more inclined to believe you'll disagree) but hey reality is reality. Learn to love yourself, your heritage, your features, your personality, your culture. That's what makes us a beautiful people...

JustJayda
03-15-2007, 05:10 PM
Thank u Cin. As usual, you're right on point.

GuyPOV
03-15-2007, 05:18 PM
Not wanting to pill on but I don't have the will power not to type. LSV please don't believe the world is that shallow. Outside beauty may be what attracts us to someone but inside beauty is why we fall in love.

PleasureVictim
03-15-2007, 06:28 PM
I've been debating if I were going to respond in this issue, but I just couldn't stand quiet for yet another day.

In all honesty LSV, I really hope that when you do decide to have children, that you have them with a man that you love. Not because he's light enough or has "good enough blood" to make your children look better. And for you to sit here and say, "it would just be nice to know my children would be treated better than me" is really for lack of a better word ignorant on your part. How can having biracial children make their life anybetter? Hell, I've seen ugly black, white, asian, latino, biracial kids..light skin, light eyes, and "good" hair doesn't necessarily make you look better.

I think you need to take a step back and take a look at yourself. You obviously have some hidden self-hatred sunk deep down inside. You can agree or disagree (I'm more inclined to believe you'll disagree) but hey reality is reality. Learn to love yourself, your heritage, your features, your personality, your culture. That's what makes us a beautiful people...

Cin, I think Vixen's point is not that being dark isn't beautiful, it's that people in general believe lighter is better/prettier. We probably have all been witness to someone gushing over a less than attractive light person just because they are that- light skinned. I'm going to guess that instead of fighting the system, LSV will decide to 'honor' it so to speak.

I can't say that being mixed makes lots of problems better- I have no idea. I have 3 cousins with 3 different sets of parents who are black & chinese (popular mix in my mom's country). None of them seem miserable to me- they are doing ok and one certainly revels in his 'mixture' and plays it up.

A couple of my full-black cousins definitely fell victim to the color game and that was because their parents were apart of the lighter is better theory. I am so grateful my mother didn't go that route- I have never been hung up on the fact that I am dark regardless of what others think. Anyway. little by little we all can fix these issues by pointing them out to our children and centuries from now:P :'( we won't have these problems.