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miabella
03-15-2007, 07:49 PM
fucking/dating/marrying a white or light-skinned person in order to have 'lighter' babies is a total dice roll, which is only one of the many reasons it is a stupid idea. the kid could turn out any number of ways, many of which are NOT socially rewarded. the white-skinned black people with heavily african features-- not approved of. you can't assume that your kids will turn out with the perfect 'tan' skin tone and long straight hair and light eyes. and i know so many people think that just having a white parent will somehow assure this for a baby-- WRONG. genetics don't indulge racist social norms of beauty nearly as often as people want to believe.

Optimist
03-16-2007, 12:45 PM
To be real with you all, you said be real, I'm not having any kids that aren't mulatto. I just think it's very hard to defeat the beauty standards.
;)


I agree with you on many levels as far as confidence building, but I'm also disturbed. Let's get this straight first, I'm in no way in a position to judge, I'm not judging, but I want to ask ya a question. How can we repair the damage done, and build confidence if you are still uneasy with raising a black woman. Don't get me wrong, I see the angle you're coming from, I understand it's scary. But instead of going out of your way to have a mulatto child so they will know they're "IT" why not allow love to fall where it may. Are you really that nervous to have a black child?

I have never felt "OUT", I've been discriminated against, and have questioned my beauty like most women, but I've never felt out of style.

....but beauty shouldn't ever be a sacfrice that extent. How will we be able to encourage others to Love ourselves when we want look to our children for answers. I'm sure that you're still dealing with this, thank you for keeping it real. But I'm curious to know what it would take for you to re think your position ( out of pure curiosity)

I think we should ask more questions of Lil' Sweet Vixen instead of making any long distance, uninformed analysis of her feelings or motives. I'm not sure she has any fear of raising a black child. Any biological child she has would be black. She's not Michael Jackson adopting white children!:D And I don't think it's as big a sacrifice for her as for you to date lighter men. We don't know how she's treated by either group.

As someone who has felt waaaayyyy out of style for being black among Black people, I see her goal as a potentially caring one. I need a lot more info to be sure. If she's from an area like my hometown where light and dark skinned people acted like they were from two seperate armed camps--I can see her point. If she's been treated with more kindness and respect by non-black guys than black guys--I can see her point. I've had DRAMATICALLY different dating experiences depending on where I've lived. I'm just not

JustJayda
03-16-2007, 01:04 PM
...^^^go on;)

Optimist
03-16-2007, 01:32 PM
^^^^ LOL Had a bathroom break!!;D

So, I'm not holding out for a black guy because it hasn't paid off for me. I say let the best man win!

When a white woman looks for certain features or characteristics to pass on to their kids it's normal. All women and men do it. When black women do it it's considered a betrayal. You can go for the look you like without it being a statement of self-hatred.

Tina
03-16-2007, 01:46 PM
Do you guys remember the Oprah show where several white couples were made to look black and the same with blacks being made to look white?

If every white person no matter how liberal, were made to look black and have to function as a black person for let's say 6 months, and every white child were forced to go to inner city schools for 1 year, attitudes would change BIG TIME in this country.

On this thread, if every white SW member were changed to black for the rest of this year and told to go look for stripping jobs, the attitude on this board would dramatically change as well.

People don't TOTALLY understand situations they haven't experienced firsthand.

AristtaRoxxx
03-16-2007, 02:05 PM
I don't think I even fully understand what black dancers have to go through because I thankfully live where it is not as big of a deal. I think if I had to live in a place where it was a big deal I would just hate the world and conservative dumbfucks even more LOL.

lexXe
03-16-2007, 02:09 PM
For those who haven't seen "Girl Like Me" - a video about black self image

check it out (http://www.infidelguy.com/archives/82-Girl-Like-me-Video-About-Black-Self-Image.html)

Very sad.

mollyzmoon
03-16-2007, 03:05 PM
On this thread, if every white SW member were changed to black for the rest of this year and told to go look for stripping jobs, the attitude on this board would dramatically change as well.

People don't TOTALLY understand situations they haven't experienced firsthand.

I think even observation should give a lot of people a pretty good idea. I've said before that I don't think the racial issues are quite as obvious in Canada, or at least in the places I've lived. However, seeing how women in the clubs were treated differently just honestly blew my mind.

In any kind of racially objective setting, you'd think the managers would give preferences to the prettier, more loyal dancers, were they to be preferential at all (and they seem to be). And I saw how black dancers were rationed, and at least two of these girls were easily in the top five best looking dancers at the club. The customers loved them. They were forced to scrape off the shifts they were given. So much bullshit. I still don't understand it...one of the dancers complained one day and said "look at me! My mom is white, my skin is paler than hers (a dancer who was 'white', but tanned herself very brown), and I can't work as much as her?". I didn't know what to say, or what to tell her. What do you do? What can you do? It seems so systemic. Not to mention this girl, Renee, was probably the hottest dancer on shift that night. Uhk.

I only bring this up (sorry to interject my pale self on the thread) because it has always bugged me...the irrationality and injustice of it all. I feel like shit knowing I get away with whatever schedule I want, just because I'm white. So I only mention this because I am very curious as to what a person can do, in my position, to help at all? Who do you appeal to? Other girls? I've always thought if enough dancers complained, they'd have to do something. I think...I dunno. It's shitty, it really is.

cinammonkisses
03-16-2007, 03:23 PM
For those who haven't seen "Girl Like Me" - a video about black self image

check it out (http://www.infidelguy.com/archives/82-Girl-Like-me-Video-About-Black-Self-Image.html)

Very sad.

I saw this video before. Very eye-opening for alot of society

DeluxxeIt
03-16-2007, 03:23 PM
I think even observation should give a lot of people a pretty good idea. I've said before that I don't think the racial issues are quite as obvious in Canada, or at least in the places I've lived. However, seeing how women in the clubs were treated differently just honestly blew my mind.

In any kind of racially objective setting, you'd think the managers would give preferences to the prettier, more loyal dancers, were they to be preferential at all (and they seem to be). And I saw how black dancers were rationed, and at least two of these girls were easily in the top five best looking dancers at the club. The customers loved them. They were forced to scrape off the shifts they were given. So much bullshit. I still don't understand it...one of the dancers complained one day and said "look at me! My mom is white, my skin is paler than hers (a dancer who was 'white', but tanned herself very brown), and I can't work as much as her?". I didn't know what to say, or what to tell her. What do you do? What can you do? It seems so systemic. Not to mention this girl, Renee, was probably the hottest dancer on shift that night. Uhk.

I only bring this up (sorry to interject my pale self on the thread) because it has always bugged me...the irrationality and injustice of it all. I feel like shit knowing I get away with whatever schedule I want, just because I'm white. So I only mention this because I am very curious as to what a person can do, in my position, to help at all? Who do you appeal to? Other girls? I've always thought if enough dancers complained, they'd have to do something. I think...I dunno. It's shitty, it really is.

You make an excellent point. Truth is, its all what we wish it would be better. But in reality it is just a hard. The whole stripping as whole is hard. Not enough people respect dancers as a whole so i think it lacks in every area. It sucks

Optimist
03-16-2007, 03:32 PM
I've found that most of the time the problem is club owners. The manager just does the owner's bidding and if he doesn't.......THE AXE!!!! I knew a white manager who was a friendly guy who had a bit of a crush on me. We worked at a mixed club. I saw him years later at a racist club and auditioned for him and couldn't get the time of day. This club was on hard times compared with the height of it's popularity in the 90s. Still, no job for me. The owners rarely show up so who do you complain to? Sure they hire one black girl as light as possible and then they harrass her right back out of the company. We could approach the law but the law doesn't care if dancers live or die. It's a tough one to solve. I like Tina's solution best! I'd love to be one of the few female club owners and the ONLY black one in Jersey! But that's a job for another day.

lexXe
03-16-2007, 04:08 PM
Molly, It's great that you recognize what's going on and are open to learning and helping, that really means a lot. :)

JustJayda
03-17-2007, 05:13 AM
Of course I do agree with Tina, I just don't think it'll happen in our lifetimes. Sorry, I hope I'm wrong. I'm just throwing this out there in the meantime though....If we could actually get a female owned club running, that's founder's/owner's are "for the cause", maybe it'll break some ground, and force progress.

Just saying, the NAACP is not an all Black (non-White) organization. I know that there are "Black" clubs out there that are owned by White men already. I just think that such a club owned by women/former-dancers, may be a step in the right direction.

cinammonkisses
03-17-2007, 06:49 AM
I just think that such a club owned by women/former-dancers, may be a step in the right direction.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Strokers in ATL owned by a black woman?! Like I said in the other post, I'm willing to open up such a business with you ladies. Maybe in about 5yrs or so, cause something like this takes alot of progress.

LilSweetVixen
03-17-2007, 01:02 PM
I've been debating if I were going to respond in this issue, but I just couldn't stand quiet for yet another day.

In all honesty LSV, I really hope that when you do decide to have children, that you have them with a man that you love. Not because he's light enough or has "good enough blood" to make your children look better. And for you to sit here and say, "it would just be nice to know my children would be treated better than me" is really for lack of a better word ignorant on your part. How can having biracial children make their life anybetter? Hell, I've seen ugly black, white, asian, latino, biracial kids..light skin, light eyes, and "good" hair doesn't necessarily make you look better.

I think you need to take a step back and take a look at yourself. You obviously have some hidden self-hatred sunk deep down inside. You can agree or disagree (I'm more inclined to believe you'll disagree) but hey reality is reality. Learn to love yourself, your heritage, your features, your personality, your culture. That's what makes us a beautiful people...

Ok well now that I see that most people feel it's a bad idea so this is unusual. It's weird to hear people complaining about not getting hired and then saying race means nothing to society. I guess it's not a good idea. I change my mind. Thanks for your words of wisdom.

JustJayda
03-17-2007, 01:04 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Strokers in ATL owned by a black woman?! Like I said in the other post, I'm willing to open up such a business with you ladies. Maybe in about 5yrs or so, cause something like this takes alot of progress.

Hmmm, I have/had no idea! WoW!!!

LilSweetVixen
03-17-2007, 01:09 PM
^^^^ LOL Had a bathroom break!!;D

So, I'm not holding out for a black guy because it hasn't paid off for me. I say let the best man win!

When a white woman looks for certain features or characteristics to pass on to their kids it's normal. All women and men do it. When black women do it it's considered a betrayal. You can go for the look you like without it being a statement of self-hatred.

Yeah when others look for certain traits to pass on it's called evolution. Layka I don't see how you as another darker sista could never have felt "OUT". Look at all the girl groups, the dark one sings backup, the light one is in the front even if she can't sing as well. To me it's a matter of taking a hint.

LilSweetVixen
03-17-2007, 01:11 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Strokers in ATL owned by a black woman?! Like I said in the other post, I'm willing to open up such a business with you ladies. Maybe in about 5yrs or so, cause something like this takes alot of progress.

You're really interested in opening up a strip club with us? We could call it Stripperweb! Have the SW'rs dance there. We'd be rich.:D

Tina
03-17-2007, 03:39 PM
I do strongly believe we as blacks need to learn all we can about this and any business. As women and black women we CAN buy strip clubs and be successful. Buying SMALL town clubs is a way to get started in this business.

Many small town clubs are grandfathered in and require less capital to get started. In the white small town areas where I work black girls do regularly work and customers are used to us. Unfortunately in some clubs that are too black friendly in the area, the girls just use the clubs to line up after hours dates. That could be changed with the right black ownership and a black female owner who could relate to the girls and hire properly.

Once we get experience with small town ownership, we could be focusing on bigger markets as they become available. What I mean by small towns, are towns such as those in South Dakota and Iowa with populations of 14,000-50,000 people. Clubs like that are only open from 5-1 or 1:30 Mon-Sat, and one could have other business interests alongside the club ownership too.

The club in Casper Wyoming is looking for a new owner and several dancers are very likely to be the new owners.

Let's face it. The older white male controls the wealth in this society, and is 99% behind the racial discrimination we face as blacks in this country. They don't want blacks whittling away at their power. The only way to change that is to master the art of gaining corporate credit and start small. Looking for jobs from these fuckers is always going to give us the short end of the stick.

cinammonkisses
03-17-2007, 03:45 PM
I'm all for it Tina! Let me know when/where...

TracyCharm
03-17-2007, 05:33 PM
Yeah when others look for certain traits to pass on it's called evolution. Layka I don't see how you as another darker sista could never have felt "OUT". Look at all the girl groups, the dark one sings backup, the light one is in the front even if she can't sing as well. To me it's a matter of taking a hint.

I have never felt out as a black woman. I went to a mostly white, all-girl high school and the school president was a dark skinned black girl along with the prom queen. Many of my white classmates had depression, bi-polar, eating disorders, and self mutilation. All of these diseases are actually less with black girls. So I don't see how being white or having light skin is some type of guarantee for feeling like you are hot. Do you think that your kids will magically have no problems or less problems simply for being mixed? And this is all assuming that you have girls. A lot of mixed men have deep insecurities about their masculinity and this is something that you have not brought up.

I don't see why you should care what cheesey pop groups should have anything to do with your decision to have offspring. Music today for the most part sucks and part of it is music being more backward color conscious than talent conscious. You even said yourself that often these girls can't really sing well. No one even buys music anymore because it sucks so bad. Give me Gloria Gaynor, the Supremes or En Vogue (all dark skinned women who people will talk about centuries from now) any day over Lumidee or Cassie who no one will remember even 5 years from now. I don't see why black or white people should tolerate the crap that is coming out of the industry instead of just realizing that it is crap and moving on. Or are you saying we should just tolerate and accept everything society slings at us just because?

pheonixkarma
03-17-2007, 07:26 PM
I just need to add here wether or not its completely relavent, but Im white and I work at a slightly more upscale mainly white club, and it freaking pisses me off because there is a girl who recently started working there that I think is drop-dead-gorgeous, she is black and curvy with a beautiful face and and one of the best butts I've ever seen, and I love her because I totally think she would have the right to be a diva but shes really down to earth, and super sweet. Im a skinny white girl and I think she is WAY prettier then me, but whenever I pay attention its seems like I make a more money then her. F*ck demografics, I dont think its fair. I just hope she makes more money then it seems and that its enough to keep her happy and from quitting.

PleasureVictim
03-17-2007, 09:02 PM
TracyCharm, those problems you mentioned don't affect black teens as much as whites- but they are on the rise. It just doesn't get as much attention. People always assume black girls are cool with being 'big' yadda yadda and that anorexia is a white woman's disease. Extremely incorrect. As more young ladies of color fall victim to the beauty standard, the problems will expose themselves and many will act confused although it has been there all the time.

It's not just LSV who points out the preferential treatment of mixed kids. I have a friend who interns at a popular child magazine. She told me a while back that after ther blonde hair blue eyed kids, the casting people are going crazy over the mixed children. They actually began seeking them out....and they are a new 'fad'. She told me this 4 or 5 years ago and it still hasn't let up. They are basically 'it kids'. How they deal with that label I guess comes down to their parents and how they are raised.Some parents focus too much on looks which will give them a complex, and some won't suffer those problems.

Optimist wrote something I was thinking while reading the thread, about how white women seek out certain traits they think are beautiful but no one calls them out for it...why is that?

miabella
03-18-2007, 01:03 AM
oh, people call them out for it, but then they get told it's 'reverse racism'. plenty of people question angelina jolie's motives, which are probably not so pure, and it's the ol' reverse racism thing thrown out if one mentions that adopting third world children out of a sense of fetish just MIGHT be a little unhealthy for the kids.

lexXe
03-18-2007, 12:15 PM
Optimist wrote something I was thinking while reading the thread, about how white women seek out certain traits they think are beautiful but no one calls them out for it...why is that?

The reason why they don't get called out is because white women have not faced racism for hundreds of years. They were never told they were ugly and worthless because of the colour of their skin. They were never denied jobs, housing, opportunities because of their skin. Self hate is not rampant and deeply rooted in their communities like it is in ours. That's why it's different.

TracyCharm, I think the issue of eating disorders is changing in our community as more women buy into the standard of beauty. I think this is true especially for women in our industry. I'm guilty of it myself. I'm slim and toned and I watch what I eat because being this size has benefits, especially at work. I was really skinny when I started and I've gained weight, but just enough to give me lean muscle. If I gained more weight and loss my tone, I know I wouldn't do as well. From my experience, men either look for the fashion model, the pornstar (thin or curvy) or fitness model body type. This puts pressure on us to work out, eat well and might force others to take more extreme measures to achieve what they and other's think is ideal. I know many black dancers who live off ephedra and salads.

This makes me think of something....how do you guys feel about your body being in this industry? Do you guys also notice eating disorders among black dancers?

lalalatina
03-18-2007, 04:41 PM
Well there is an underground epidemic in the black communities..black and latina girls over eating so they can get that fat ass. I'm a latina often confused as a black girl and although I'm curvy, I'm definitely not packing a fat ass that some of my sistas have. My guy friend who's German, likes black and latina chicks, and just recently moved to ATL blurted out "Why don't you have a fat ass?" And I just rolled my eyes at him because I thought that was so pathetic, meanwhile he's at a gym, trying to look like Usher....

layka
03-18-2007, 09:45 PM
Yeah when others look for certain traits to pass on it's called evolution. Layka I don't see how you as another darker sista could never have felt "OUT". Look at all the girl groups, the dark one sings backup, the light one is in the front even if she can't sing as well. To me it's a matter of taking a hint.

I don't take hints;D I have a strong opinion concerning the beauty of my skin because my mother, ( a very dark woman) stressed the importance of loving my complexion early on in life. I don't take the crap on t.v as fact, especially because it's hollywoods ideals, which also weigh very heavily in race relation. I dunno, I guess I was fortunate enough to have a dark mother who would strut around and sing "the blacker the berry the sweeter the juice" EVERY time she got dressed to leave the house. I just can't buy into the complexion crap because I've seen light skinned girls who couldn't hold a candle to Naomi. Your ideals of beauty have alot to do with your enviroment while growing up. My family is made up of so many different complexions and no one is stuck up about their complexion, so I never had that complex. What trips me out is when others do.... ( racisim)

layka
03-18-2007, 09:46 PM
I don't see why you should care what cheesey pop groups should have anything to do with your decision to have offspring. Music today for the most part sucks and part of it is music being more backward color conscious than talent conscious. You even said yourself that often these girls can't really sing well. No one even buys music anymore because it sucks so bad. Give me Gloria Gaynor, the Supremes or En Vogue (all dark skinned women who people will talk about centuries from now) any day over Lumidee or Cassie who no one will remember even 5 years from now. I don't see why black or white people should tolerate the crap that is coming out of the industry instead of just realizing that it is crap and moving on. Or are you saying we should just tolerate and accept everything society slings at us just because?

My sentiment exactly

layka
03-18-2007, 09:54 PM
.

This makes me think of something....how do you guys feel about your body being in this industry? Do you guys also notice eating disorders among black dancers?

I actually feel comfortable with my body depending on the club. I'm 36-25-38, I'm a size 12 on a good day. I feel like a woman with my current measurements. Hell, I used to get card at liquor stores when I was thinner, now all I have to do when I forget my i.d is walk in the store backwards. Bam, instant purchase. But on the real, I really think that eating disorders do run rampant among black dancers. I've seen girls either try to lose, or try to gain in very unhealthy ways. One of my girls wanted to gain 15 lbs so bad ( just to get a bigger booty) that all she drunk was ensure, and did squats like her life depended on them. The way I see it, neither motive is healthy if you're not going about it the healthy way.

layka
03-18-2007, 10:08 PM
LilSweetVixen, and all the other women of color that question their beauty and power, I dedicate this poem to you. This is my favorite poem, I have plenty from different authors that may inspire you. I hope you sistuhs really take this to heart, this is a hug from me to you. A virtual fist to the sky, I love ya'll. Please, try to take pride in who you are. Change begins inside first, don't allow american ideals of beauty tarnish the respect you that you must posses for yourself. Don't allow the shit on t.v to vanquish all of the pride that lies within your soul, all you need to do is dig deep, find the beauty in your strength first, then I promise you that once you take a look in the mirror you will see the gorgeous woman that ya'll are. Okay, the poem and author is below.

ETA: Please don't pick the poem apart, I didn't edit it because it's not my place to edit someone else work, but I feel the need to explain that this poem isn't meant to offend any of my white sistuhs. This woman wrote this as a means of empowerment, and many radical black women write in this tone as a way of venting, de-stressing, and uplifting discouraged women around her. I just felt the need to explain that. I really don't want my baby AlexxaHex to get riled up again. Pass the joint, and vibe off of your beauty for a moment.
Love ya'll

Proceed........



What does it mean...
be'n a Black Woman in Amerikkka



What does it mean...
be'n a Black Woman in Amerikkka (BWIA)
What is our mood..
how do we feel...
what do we think...

What does it mean...
be'n a Black Woman in Amerikkka (BWIA)
What's da on go'n message...
"sent out" to Black Women
when we see images of so called
"beauty" "defined" as caucasian women's
features, wt skin and straight
hair 24-7 in "all" da media
What does it tell us....
see'n "our" "Beloved" sistahs
reach'n for dat "goal"
and "look" of so called "beauty"
act'n and look'n mo and mo
like caucasian women every day
.... what does it mean
to "act mo like caucasian women"
....you know...

What does it mean....
to be a Black Woman in Amerikkka (BWIA)
What does it feel like
see'n mo of our "Beloved" Black brothas
with caucasian women...
How is it Black women can go
five and ten years
without date'n a Black man...
What does it mean...
to be a Black Woman in Amerikkka (BWIA)
What affects manifest...
see'n caucasian women
always be'n "saved" in movies
and on TV...

What does it mean....
to be a Black Woman in Amerikkka (BWIA)
Oh..... and what is it like see'n
caucasian women's hair commercials
and the "messsage" that it "brings"...
(long/soft/manageable/shiney/blond)
or
hear'n our "Black Beautiful"
people talk'n 'bout
"good" hair as caucasian hair and
"bad" hair as Black hair

What does it mean...
to be a Black Woman in Amerikkka (BWIA)
Why are our needs as Black Women INVISIBLE...
Why are our "pains" not "felt"
....Are we seen as "too" strong
to need help...

What does it mean...
to be a Black Woman in Amerikkka (BWIA)
another generation of Black Women
raise'n their Black Children
without "fathers" in the home
our "Beloved" Children....
loose'n quality time...
lap time..

What does it mean....
to be a Black Woman in Amerikkka (BWIA)
it means... keep'n up da "good fight"
fight'n against "evil," "lies" and "brainwash'n"
fight'n to always "research the truth"
to the best of your ability
to continue fight'n...
grow'n...
love'n...
build'n "YOUR" own
"self esteem" "FIRST"
fight'n "hard".....
"LUV" Self "FIRST"... (~Priestess Jywanza~)
6-11-2005
(BWIA)

^^^ Now that's real talk. Tell me that you don't feel a smidge more beautiful after realizing and respecting your strength, and the strength of our ancestors. Look past the silly ass hue of your skin, and focus on the beauty within. I'm pretty damn sure that you're beautiful, I'm pretty sure that you're pretty, but if you feel uncertain inside, that's why you feel uncertain concerning your appearance.

cinammonkisses
03-19-2007, 05:51 AM
^^^ Now that's real talk. Tell me that you don't feel a smidge more beautiful after realizing and respecting your strength, and the strength of our ancestors. Look past the silly ass hue of your skin, and focus on the beauty within. I'm pretty damn sure that you're beautiful, I'm pretty sure that you're pretty, but if you feel uncertain inside, that's why you feel uncertain concerning your appearance.

It most definately is.

Optimist
03-19-2007, 06:56 AM
Layka, where did Lil Sweet Vixen or anyone write that they questioned their beauty and power? I tried to find it but I missed it. I think everyone black or white recognizes racism based mistreatment. I don't get that anyone here needs an intervention or pep talk to feel good about their skin color. Didn't Lil' Sweet Vixen say point blank that she wouldn't want to change her skin color? Primarily everyone seems to be on about the real barriers we face from others and many ways of surmounting them. I don't see her choice as an act of self-hatred just a choice to try something new.

Is interacial marriage necessarily the same as self-hatred? There is a biological push in nature to find the mate as genetically different from you as possible to better protect the next generation. White couples are facing infertility at alarming rates. Is it the last 200 years of inbreeding. That's not the natural order and it puts their kids at risk but they continue to inbreed. Is that self hate, self love?

cinammonkisses
03-19-2007, 07:12 AM
Layka, where did Lil Sweet Vixen or anyone write that they questioned their beauty and power?

Op, I think LSV is questioning her beauty and power. On more than one occasion she is talking about making mixed kids to make them more 'acceptable' into this world. When (I believe) Layka said that she's never felt "left out" LSV tried to give her all these reasons as to why she should've felt left out. ie. "Layka I don't see how you as another darker sista could never have felt "OUT". Look at all the girl groups, the dark one sings backup, the light one is in the front even if she can't sing as well. To me it's a matter of taking a hint."

Being of darker skin does no = being ugly

Optimist
03-19-2007, 07:35 AM
Yes I think I'm beautiful, guys of all races think I'm beautiful, I have three dates with three different white hotties this week. I would never bleach my skin even if it were safe. And I'm attracted to dark women. But I want to be on the safe side. I want my future girls to really know they're the IT girls, not have to wonder. So that's my realness.


That statement is why I think she does not hate her skin color. You can have a trait you love but it doesn't sell to the outside world. Doesn't make it bad. It just doesn't sell. I think she's attempting to incorporate some pragmatism into her choice of mate.

You can have an accent that turn others off. You like it. They don't. It's OK. However, when you decide to sell to those people it is pragmatic to downplay or eliminate that accent. Perhaps some people think skin color is the very essence of who you are, an ethnic thing that should be held to above all or your identity and self respect is lost.

cinammonkisses
03-19-2007, 07:41 AM
But I want to be on the safe side. I want my future girls to really know they're the IT girls, not have to wonder. So that's my realness.



That statement is why I think she does not hate her skin color. You can have atrait you love but it doesn't sell to the outside world. Doesn't make it bad. It just doesn't sell.

Opt, that's all the more reason why I believe she hates her color. Yea, she can look in the mirror and say, "yes I love me I'm beautiful, hell I date all kinds of men and women" BUT when it comes to her children..she wants to keep it on the "safe side" lmao WHAT THE FUCK! Having your future daughters knowing that they are the IT girls just simply because they are of mixed race sends a very sad, disturbing signal. How can being biracial, make her future daughters KNOW they are the IT girls, not having to wonder..LSV is right..that is her realness and it's tarnished.

Optimist
03-19-2007, 07:58 AM
Opt, that's all the more reason why I believe she hates her color. Yea, she can look in the mirror and say, "yes I love me I'm beautiful, hell I date all kinds of men and women" BUT when it comes to her children..she wants to keep it on the "safe side" lmao WHAT THE FUCK! Having your future daughters knowing that they are the IT girls just simply because they are of mixed race sends a very sad, disturbing signal. How can being biracial, make her future daughters KNOW they are the IT girls, not having to wonder..LSV is right..that is her realness and it's tarnished.

Isn't that the very essence of being a mom? To keep to the safe side? It's not a magic bullet but in some neighborhoods and towns that's a valid cure to race based harassment. I've seen a number of places where this is true. It's not pretty but it's true.

Is she wrong to recognize and use that fact when planning a family? Is it self hatred to accept that fact rather than campaign against it. Should she use her kids blackness to campaign against those attitudes? What if she's not wrong--just different? Does being black mean you must spend your days fighting?

cinammonkisses
03-19-2007, 08:09 AM
Isn't that the very essence of being a mom? To keep to the safe side? It's not a magic bullet but in some neighborhoods and towns that's a valid cure to race based harassment. I've seen a number of places where this is true. It's not pretty but it's true.

Is she wrong to recognize and use that fact when planning a family? Is it self hatred to accept that fact rather than campaign against it. Should she use her kids blackness to campaign against those attitudes? What if she's not wrong--just different? Does being black mean you must spend your days fighting?

Does being black mean you have to believe that in order for your kids to have a better life they must be biracial. That's the whole point I'm tyring to get to. I dunno. I guess I'm just one of those people who believes it's ok to date who you want, marry who you want, have kids with who you want..but all because you LOVE them. Not because there will be an incentive to your offspring. I dunno, fuck it. I guess there are more people out in the world who think and live like LSV alot moreso than me. I myself can't look through the same mirror as you all when it comes to "making life easier" as far as race is concerned. When I look in that mirror the image is horribly distorted. There is no way I can fix the mirror, and I strongly doubt you can either. :'( Sad nonetheless but I cant change other peoples view. Trust me though, if I could I would.

Optimist
03-19-2007, 08:25 AM
Does being black mean you have to believe that in order for your kids to have a better life they must be biracial. That's the whole point I'm tyring to get to. I dunno. I guess I'm just one of those people who believes it's ok to date who you want, marry who you want, have kids with who you want..but all because you LOVE them. Not because there will be an incentive to your offspring. I dunno, fuck it. I guess there are more people out in the world who think and live like LSV alot moreso than me. I myself can't look through the same mirror as you all when it comes to "making life easier" as far as race is concerned. When I look in that mirror the image is horribly distorted. There is no way I can fix the mirror, and I strongly doubt you can either. :'( Sad nonetheless but I cant change other peoples view. Trust me though, if I could I would.

I think you're both right. That's my opinion. I think different neighborhoods and towns call for a different approach. I've grown up in two towns one northern, one southern, one middle class, one agrarian. They demanded very different approaches. That's why I think her plan is a valid one just as yours, layka's are valid. There's a million ways to skin the cat and I don't think either way is a sign of something sinister.

We're in a f_cked up position. Personally, I want a guy with money and political and social connections. Yeah, some people will say I'm a gold digger. Fuck 'em. It won't guarantee my kids future but it's my way of skinnin' that cat.

layka
03-19-2007, 12:33 PM
15wpm, long nails, double post.

layka
03-19-2007, 12:38 PM
First off, thank you for this thread. I've recently had to take a month off because I just couldn't deal with the biz anymore. I'm back now, and could really use the support this thread might provide. A few things that bother me, or when white girls tell me I'm a very pretty "Black" Girl. I'm just a girl like every other girl in here. You didn't walk up to that girl and say, "Your a pretty blue eyed girl," or "Your a pretty blond girl," Or your a pretty asian girl." From now on I'm going to tell any guy who says that to me what's wrong with what he just said. (I'll go about it nicely)

I also hate how when you work at white clubs, the black girls who are already there aren't nice to you cause they see you as a threat or something. I understand it, but it's stupid. Think about it, if you were only making money cause you were the only black girl then you are lazy, have no hustle, and don't have much going for yourself.

Guys will come to a club if they have choices, and they will bring there friends. That will help you make more money. Duh!

I have more to say, but I'm tired. If ever any of my sistas are feeling bad about yourself, I want you to read Sheba sings, by Maya Angelo. It was this poem that helped me get back on the stripping horse, and I take it to work with me.



^^^^ Hmmm, I knew their were others that needed encouragement. I just had to find the post. The polls also suggest others questioning their beauty and power. Misreprensentation can play into how comfortable you are in your skin. I have a big ass, I always feel like guys expect me to make it clap, hence I question my size at moments which is me questioning my beauty to an extent. When I work in white clubs I censor myself to the point that I can't understand what the fuck I'M talking about because of misrepresentation. I feel as though I have to prove people wrong, that black dancers aren't ignorant, ghetto, and lack class. All of that being represented in the different mediums, ie that damn playas club movie, lmao.


Layka, where did Lil Sweet Vixen or anyone write that they questioned their beauty and power? I tried to find it but I missed it. I think everyone black or white recognizes racism based mistreatment. I don't get that anyone here needs an intervention or pep talk to feel good about their skin color. Didn't Lil' Sweet Vixen say point blank that she wouldn't want to change her skin color? Primarily everyone seems to be on about the real barriers we face from others and many ways of surmounting them. I don't see her choice as an act of self-hatred just a choice to try something new.

Is interacial marriage necessarily the same as self-hatred? There is a biological push in nature to find the mate as genetically different from you as possible to better protect the next generation. White couples are facing infertility at alarming rates. Is it the last 200 years of inbreeding. That's not the natural order and it puts their kids at risk but they continue to inbreed. Is that self hate, self love?

Thanks Cinn, u always take words outta my mouth.

Look, the way My girl lilsweetvixen was skeptical of me never feeling "out" implies her insecurity within. She didn't have to spell that out... I took the hint on that one, lmao::) . And sure their are people on hear that need a pep talk, if you don't believe me you should see all of the private messages I'm recieving from ladies on here needing encouragement. Like I said before, I'm not trying to offend her or anyone here, but I take into account with every post that lurkers are reading. So even if SHE didn't need the pep talk, someone else may have found it useful. I did, I needed to read that poem aloud to myself. As far as whether or not Lil sweet vixen feels her choice as one of self hatred, I'm pretty sure that she may not be particulary proud of it. If the world was fair and racisim free, she may not feel compelled to make a choice based on color. I'm not pointing my finger at her and jumping down her throat. Why? Because I respect her, I respect the balls it takes to admit something that others may not recieve warmly. And the reason why I wanted her to read the poem is to show her that her views ARE NOT unwarranted. She has every right to feel uncertain, especially if she uses images on t.v to shape her opinion. That doesn't surprise me nor disgust me. The SOLE reason I wanted to speak on these issues was so we could draw strength and encouragement from one another, it appears that the poem was yet taken out of context. I'm trying to support her, and urge her to look within. I do believe in interacial love, my mother is married to a white man for goodness sakes. But I can't swallow marrying for superficial reasons, and possibly looking for the answers to love and self love through your children. If you're marrying to shelter your children from racisim IT. WILL.NEVER.HAPPEN. Regardless of her children being born mulatto, the burden will be tripled for her babies if she doesn't deal with her issues first. I can respect her idea, it's an innocent and very honorable notion. BUT, if you think that just because your child is mulatto that they will always feel it, she's implying her insecurities in that idea alone. Everyone wants a beautiful child, but I keep asking at what cost is beauty alone worth planning your love life to this extent? Her children can be "IN" regardless of who's the
daddy! She can have fugly mixed kids if the genes deem so. It's nothing wrong with wanting pretty kids, but sometimes parents don't need to protect their kids from the world so much as they need to protect their kids from their issues. Parents can be the ones to fuck you up moreso than the world in some cases. But I know that Lil Sweet Vixen is being responsible in this event because she stated before that she doesn't want kids in a long time anyway. I'm not saying that her ideas are wrong, she's more than entitled to her own opinion.

BUT I wouldn't mind if she braced the beauty she has as a woman of color. lol, I mean come one man, she's beautiful, but we want her to come to grips with that. That's my .02 cents

BaileyBanksNBiddle
03-19-2007, 07:49 PM
The only chick that can do the really awesome pole tricks at my club is a black dancer...I think shes fabulous :-)

xBlackBettyx
03-19-2007, 08:59 PM
I don't take hints;D I have a strong opinion concerning the beauty of my skin because my mother, ( a very dark woman) stressed the importance of loving my complexion early on in life. I don't take the crap on t.v as fact, especially because it's hollywoods ideals, which also weigh very heavily in race relation. I dunno, I guess I was fortunate enough to have a dark mother who would strut around and sing "the blacker the berry the sweeter the juice" EVERY time she got dressed to leave the house. I just can't buy into the complexion crap because I've seen light skinned girls who couldn't hold a candle to Naomi. Your ideals of beauty have alot to do with your enviroment while growing up. My family is made up of so many different complexions and no one is stuck up about their complexion, so I never had that complex. What trips me out is when others do.... ( racisim)

Exactly. You're only out if you let yourself be. Real life isn't about Hollywood. Take Destiny's child. Kelly was more talented than all of them, and even though she wasn't the "main" one (Beyonce...please) I liked her the best and thought she was the prettiest one out of the three. So not everyone buys into that shit.

xBlackBettyx
03-19-2007, 09:03 PM
I actually feel comfortable with my body depending on the club. I'm 36-25-38, I'm a size 12 on a good day. I feel like a woman with my current measurements. Hell, I used to get card at liquor stores when I was thinner, now all I have to do when I forget my i.d is walk in the store backwards. Bam, instant purchase. But on the real, I really think that eating disorders do run rampant among black dancers. I've seen girls either try to lose, or try to gain in very unhealthy ways. One of my girls wanted to gain 15 lbs so bad ( just to get a bigger booty) that all she drunk was ensure, and did squats like her life depended on them. The way I see it, neither motive is healthy if you're not going about it the healthy way.

That reminds me of my friend who is trying to get rid of her 44 inch booty. Which is weird, her butt is just something that is....her, at least to me. It's not that I think her ass makes her a great person, it's just without her booty it wouldn't be the same!

Makes me feel bad - mine is 46in :O, but I love it We have 90 inches of booty put together. Crazy.

PleasureVictim
03-20-2007, 12:40 AM
Tell her I'll take some of her booty!;D

TracyCharm
03-20-2007, 01:12 AM
Previous members have posted my views on the whole having mixed kids issue because life will be easier for them. Pretty much my point was that having mixed kids does not mean that life will be easier (strangers gushing over you does not equal an easier life) and anyone having any sort of looking kid, whether the kid is blond and blue eyed, asian, black, mixed, or whatever like they are a fashion accessory like a hand bag (not saying this is you LSV) is unhealthy.

As for weight and eating disorders, it is sad that both undereating and overeating are rising with black and latina women. I am very small, a size 1 and I am 34-24-36. I often wish I had more "junk in the trunk" and I still drink protein drinks and step but none of that has helped yet. :-( Sometimes men, both black and white, feel like I am not "black enough" because my butt isn't very big.

TracyCharm
03-20-2007, 01:21 AM
And that was a beautiful poem layka. Thanks ;D

cinammonkisses
03-20-2007, 04:15 AM
Tell her I'll take some of her booty!;D

LMAO girl who you telling! I was thinking the same thing. Betty, how much you selling that for girly :P

lexXe
03-20-2007, 09:13 AM
As for weight and eating disorders, it is sad that both undereating and overeating are rising with black and latina women. I am very small, a size 1 and I am 34-24-36. I often wish I had more "junk in the trunk" and I still drink protein drinks and step but none of that has helped yet. :-( Sometimes men, both black and white, feel like I am not "black enough" because my butt isn't very big.

We have pretty much the same measurements, try doing lot's of deep squats and lunges with heavier weights. Walking on an incline is good as well. Work with what you have. My butt's small but very round because of using heavy weights when working glutes.

layka
03-20-2007, 11:50 AM
^^^ Squats with weights DO work very very very well. I have a big ass, but I'm a lil greedy and have seen results with lifting the bum by squating regulary. I would be more than happy to list the squats and reps if interested.

Okay, now let's discuss HOW to enhance the beauty you already posess. Here are a few tips that I use and love, feel free to add more.

Appearance

1. Keep your weave tight! A weave that tells on itself is NOT the way to make money. Guys want to believe that you're "exotic" in any form. Whether it's the color or length, or texture. I have never worked with a 36 inch weave;D But what you're lacking in length can be compenstated in color. Deep browns with highlights are sexy, if you want to play up on the sex kitten look try a richer shade. The video girl look works for some, I classfiy that as different shades of blond. All of those colors can accentuate your look as long as you pay attention to your complexion. Wearing your real hair IS an option despite popular opinion. We don't HAVE to wear weaves inorder to make bank. The majority of us may choose to wear a weave to cut down on styling time, which can be a nuisance. But I've seen girls BANK off of their funky fresh short styles. It's actually a contrast to what men may see on the streets. Plenty of guys can see women of color with weave, but to get a dance by a beautiful woman pulling off a short do will make guys take a double look.

2. Gym
No, not to lose your curves but too tone them up. Hell, you don't even have to hit a gym. 20 mins a day with resistance at home will be enough to see a change. Pilates was a Godsend, it will tone you up like nobodys business. I also like Fluidity. It's a bar method that will increase definition in your bod. I just started the regimen and I already see a change within a week.

3. Makeup
Bright, fun sexy makeup will be refreshing to your customers. Bronzer is our best friend! Don't believe me? Put a lil bit on your body, dim the lights and look at that fabulous glow! You can also use it to contour your thighs and calves. A lil bit in between the cleavage is also alluring. Just remember to use a setting powder so it won't transfer onto customers clothing. My favorite at the moment is by L'oreal. I use it below my cheeks to contour the face as well. Plus it'll give you a rejuvinated glow.

Eyelashes can also play up on our look of exotic. I can go from plain jane woc next door to sex kitten tracy bingham simply by lashes! I steer away from ultra thick lashes b/c they tend to give a drag queen look, but super long plush lashes can't fail me. Just also remember to take the shape of your eyes into account before buying. Large eyes can get away with a larger lash, round eyes call for a smaller full lash. Almond eyes can rock spikey lashes, and deep set eyes can get away with a thicker heavier lash.

Eyebrows
Wow, your eyebrows not only make you or break you, but they set a mood. Fuller natural eyebrows can convey innocence while sleeker thinner brows can convey a no bull shit attitude. I generally don't like thin brows, but some women can get away with them when the shape of the face and attitude match. I've seen some awesome thin brows, but they were never done at home but by a professional.

Contacts.....
I'm a lil partial to these only because you're asked a million times a night "are those your's" or "are you mixed". But since we're in this for the money they certainly don't hurt. Just changing the color of your eyes can bring up your look a couple of notches. My only beef with these are when woc buy opaque colors instead of blended. Oh yeah, and buying your lenses from the Asian beauty supply store is a no no. I did that dumb ass move when I was in highschool and damn near fucked up my eyes for life. Yep, dumb move lol

I would love to hear other's suggestions. I didn't get to detailed because I can't type worth shit so my fingers hurt.... so, what is your favorite look that other black dancers don't often do?

lexXe
03-20-2007, 01:52 PM
Hair - I completely agree Layka, keep your weave tight!!! Find a colour, style, texture that works for you and keep it. Don't change your hair too often because you don't want to look different everytime you see a regular. Weaves aren't necessary but they're great because you're not damaging your hair.

Gym - I think it's important to go to the gym because you can only learn so much at home. I've learned a lot from friends at the gym, plus I'm much more motivated when I work out in with people. Integrate weight, cardio and stretching into your routine. You will look, feel and perform better!

Makeup - work with what you have and like Layka said bronzer adds a magic touch. I love smokey eyes and glossy lips...screams sex!! Check our specktra's woman of colour forum.

Skincare - we look like walking chocolate/caramel etc let's use this to our advantage. Exfoliate and use cocoa/shea butter!! Also, I use Airbrush legs by Sally Hansen on my body to give it extra glow. I use the darkest shade and blend. Works wonders for me!!! I also use dermablend to cover bruises and scars - set with powder and hair spray

Eyelashes Eyelashes Eyelashes!!!.......very important because they bring out the sex goddess in all of us.

Eyebrows- I like mine thin

Teeth - I use Arm and Hammer toothpaste and I sprinkle extra baking soda on it to keep my teeth super white so they glow!!

Pay attention to detail - make sure your outfits are wrinkle free, shoes aren't scuffed, hands are manicured, feet are pedicured etc.

Smell Good - don't overdo the perfume! I use light fruity smells like coconut, mango or papaya.