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cinammonkisses
03-20-2007, 10:30 PM
I remember this even although I havent seen the documentary. Im glad you've taken an interest!

About 12/3 years ago now there was "another" black death in custody. (This is STILL an ongoing issue accross the country and has been for 200+ years continuously...) His death sparked riots in Brisbane and gained alot of media attention. The man was a 19 year old dancer got beaten up by police and he died from his injuries. I guess it got media attention because he was a kid who was considered to have a good future as opposed to being "just another nigger" on the street.
I went to the "Stop Black Deaths In Custody" pre-funeral march and I can say that Ive never experienced anything like it. I wish a whole lot of white people had gotten to experience my experience. Its very hard to put into words. Ive been on alot of demos and marches in the last 25 years but Ive never felt such a sense of unity and pride and culture before anywhere.

Im reading some of the posts here and I feel sad that there seems to be so little known about Aboriginal culture, Australian history, non-white Australian culture and racism in this country in general. Let alone the ongoing effects of having ones culture torn apart.



I actually read an article about that young man a while back. Are race-relations getting better Aussie? I've always wanted to go to Austrailia (particularly Melbourne) to study abroad. I'm still interested in going too.

LoveSexMoney
03-20-2007, 10:35 PM
awwww I searched youtube for Babakiueria and got nothing! wah!



edit: but there IS a trailer for 10 canoes.

Krazyjane
03-20-2007, 10:45 PM
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: I'm sorry, I really couldn't contain myself. I'm not trying to come across as patronizing....but kwanzaa isn't an African holiday. It originated in California during the seventys by radical black panthers. Okay, sorry,really, just had to clear that one up.

*munches on popcorn, jotting down book references*
Sorry, I know jack shit about African culture save some Shona. My point was that he uses cultural interests as an excuse to defy rules and regulations, but doesn't actually partake in them. He just wants to flaunt that no whitey is going to have control over him, which is a thinly disguised veil for doing whatever the fuck he wants and getting away with it because he could easily report Mark for racism.

miabella
03-20-2007, 10:57 PM
you're making a mistake many white people and white-identified people make, which is to argue from the exception. this one black guy is a JERK, nothing more or less. plenty of white people invoke cultural whatevers as a way to be jerks and yet they aren't considered representatives of general blackfolk or invoked when discussions of systemic racism come up. you're doing the equivalent of mentioning 'what about male (non-prison) rape' in a discussion of female rape.

layka
03-20-2007, 11:23 PM
Sorry, I know jack shit about African culture save some Shona. My point was that he uses cultural interests as an excuse to defy rules and regulations, but doesn't actually partake in them. He just wants to flaunt that no whitey is going to have control over him, which is a thinly disguised veil for doing whatever the fuck he wants and getting away with it because he could easily report Mark for racism.

I understand, when I found out it made my jaw drop. No harm, no foul, just trying to do my part in dispeling rampant propaganda.

Krazyjane
03-20-2007, 11:31 PM
I understand, when I found out it made my jaw drop. No harm, no foul, just trying to do my part in dispeling rampant propaganda.
No prob. I do my share of informing people that Vietnam is not in Japan, that a chinadress is a qipao/cheongsam and not a kimono, that we don't eat cats, etc.

Lysondra
03-20-2007, 11:35 PM
^ Whenever I go to a store and say I want a cheongsam or a mandarin collared shirt.. they look at me like I'm insane before I say 'a chinese shirt'... -.-

Casual Observer
03-21-2007, 03:06 PM
you're making a mistake many white people and white-identified people make, which is to argue from the exception.

Ah, of course, only white people do that...

Mastridonicus
03-21-2007, 03:20 PM
there's white people?

Krazyjane
03-21-2007, 07:16 PM
Ah, of course, only white people do that...
Exactly. WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) people, especially politicians, NEVER use Christianity as a facade and substitution for being good people.

LoveSexMoney
03-21-2007, 08:51 PM
well I just learned an interesting piece of information: Most Aboriginal communities suffer from severe overcrowding. Severe overcrowding to the tune of 15 people per household on average. Can anybody confirm or deny this? Imagine...15 people in a 3 bedroom house! How is it possible to keep such overcrowded homes from not becoming trashed???

I got this info from the Maningrida and Wadeye websites.

flickad
03-21-2007, 08:53 PM
Aside from the fact that racial discrimination with respect to work (and many other areas) is just plain old illegal here....

We are hugely multicultural, especially in Sydney and Melbourne. Qld is a bad example because it's an old, white, redneck area... though you're not going to get bashed here "just because" you're black, asian, arab etc... my classes at uni were testimony to that, i was amazed how many countries were represented.

Too hot in Qld to give anyone any shit about anything. Too hard.

Sydney is an amazing mix of ethnicities. A few of the various ethnic gangs cause shit for each other... but every day thousands of people from all over the world cram into trains together to go to work without an issue...

It really just isn't that big of a deal here

Seconded. If there's much racism in Melbourne, it's mostly not overt. I'm not going to say it doesn't exist though.

There's not a huge black population in Australia in general (the main minority being people of Asian descent), but where I live there are alot more Sudanese people now than there were afew years ago.

flickad
03-21-2007, 09:02 PM
What? That's not rascist. It's a shitty situation but the governments' handling of it is not based on rascism. The refugees in Australia have it better there than you would if you went to thier countries. You'd probably be dead :D

It is based on racism. You won't see any British backpackers who've overstayed their visas in Woomera. Also, if we're such an underpopulated country that we need to hand out a non-means tested, $4000 baby bonus, surely we should be encouraging immigration rather than imprisoning refugees. The baby bonus itself, when coupled with our immigration policy, is clearly racist. It's all about increasing the population with primarily white babies.

The fact that the Federal government won't overtly declare a racist motive in no way indicates one doesn't exist.

Also Australia is a First World country espousing Western values of freedom and democracy and as such should not be compared to countries that aren't and don't.

flickad
03-21-2007, 09:08 PM
Ah, yes...the ever-popular, for-the-sins-of-the-father-the-son-must-pay methodology. That's always worked well in the past...::)

equality of opportunity /= equality of results

Equality of opportunity only works that way when there's substantive equality in the first place.

flickad
03-21-2007, 09:11 PM
Nope. You know what's really sad? I don't even remember learning anything about Australian history at school. We learnt about ancient china and egypt but not even our own country.

I learned Australian history all through primary school. Moved on to European, Ancient and South African history in High School and did more South African and American history as part of my BA.

aussiepunkshocker
03-21-2007, 09:46 PM
Firstly, one of my posts seems to be missing >:(

Secondly, yes - the largest group of illegal immagrants in Australia are British and you dont see too many of them getting turfed out. Years ago a girl I worked with reported her sisters boyfriend to the relevant authorities. he was an illegal British immagrant. He used to beat her sister which is why she did it. it took them 18 months to finally follow up the report. Incidently he had moved on by then. I dont know if thats just a one off, but Im guessing many non-brits arent so lucky... call me skeptical if you like.



It is based on racism. You won't see any British backpackers who've overstayed their visas in Woomera. Also, if we're such an underpopulated country that we need to hand out a non-means tested, $4000 baby bonus, surely we should be encouraging immigration rather than imprisoning refugees. The baby bonus itself, when coupled with our immigration policy, is clearly racist. It's all about increasing the population with primarily white babies.

The fact that the Federal government won't overtly declare a racist motive in no way indicates one doesn't exist.

Also Australia is a First World country espousing Western values of freedom and democracy and as such should not be compared to countries that aren't and don't.

aussiepunkshocker
03-21-2007, 09:51 PM
Yes. Although in some communities you wouldnt call the houses houses to start with. There are also problems with houses being built inadequetly, ie no sewage lines, no electricity etc. Other areas there are no builders and the people live in thrown together corregated iron shelters. These are very issolated areas.
Cant remember if I posted this yesterday or not. In the first half of the 1990's The WHO also classified some groups of Aboriginal people as living in 4th world conditions. Ie worse than 3rd world conditions.


well I just learned an interesting piece of information: Most Aboriginal communities suffer from severe overcrowding. Severe overcrowding to the tune of 15 people per household on average. Can anybody confirm or deny this? Imagine...15 people in a 3 bedroom house! How is it possible to keep such overcrowded homes from not becoming trashed???

I got this info from the Maningrida and Wadeye websites.

GoldCoastGirl
03-22-2007, 06:30 AM
Basically what it boils down to IMO in the end is that the cities aren't as bad as the "outback" or country or rural areas as such. I'm not saying the cities are perfect as they do have their own tensions and issues and so forth (with so many different cultures living in close proximity to each other there is always going to be issues - it is a human thing).............. if you study here and you are 'black' yet not aboriginal you are fine. Even if you are.... there are ALOT of us that don't judge you based on race and skin alone.

Don't let racism dictate your life in the end. Just live it. If someone has a problem with how you live your life and/or you, ignore them. They will fade out of your life and people who see you as another human being first and foremost and not your skin colour will come into your life.

Every person's experience is (naturally) different.

Once again... come to Australia... the country itself is wonderful and has ALOT to offer!!!

Darcy Foxx
03-22-2007, 07:25 AM
well I just learned an interesting piece of information: Most Aboriginal communities suffer from severe overcrowding. Severe overcrowding to the tune of 15 people per household on average. Can anybody confirm or deny this? Imagine...15 people in a 3 bedroom house! How is it possible to keep such overcrowded homes from not becoming trashed???

The houses I mentioned that my dad's work assosciates would talk about would often end up with 20+ people living in them. Even though they were given to families, they'd usually invite all their friends and extended family to live there. While I agree that it would be difficult to not trash a house with THAT much overcrowing, I still don't think it's necessary to rip up the floorboads, shit and piss on the carpet, and smash windows.

I guess I just have a different opinion to most people because I grew up in rural country Australia in areas with a high population of aboriginals and witnessed all this first hand.

kittensgirl
03-22-2007, 09:10 PM
Unfortunately aborigines don't like to share thier culture and beliefs. Sadly this means a lot has been forgotten, not passed on and is hard to find extensive information about.
Not all aboriginals are obviously black. The tribes in Victoria are relatively fair skinned, unless you were told you would not pick them for aboriginal.
Australia had a white person policy which means truly dark skinned races have only migrated into this country in numbers in the last 30 years or so. The population is still getting used to seeing dark skinned people to some degree.
I believe racism is in the minority but the media like a good controversial story and will publish one persons racist views as the belief of the entire group.
Generally Australians are easy going and generous, and a large majority have come from a foriegn background (Convicts or immigrants fleeing the wars) somewhere in the last 200 yeras of thier famly tree. This means most of us have come from a hard working background and strongly believe in giving people a "fair go". Because of this we hate bludgers and do occasionally feel discrimated at when we hear of the many many extra assisance, handouts for aboriginals, the most ridiculous is the children not required to attend school if they choose not to (how many kid do you know WANT to go to school?and how the hell is having no education help anyone?)
Government policies are trying to be helpful but there is no possible way to make up for "whites" invading their country. This fact must be accepted, the world has changed and will continue to change.

Darcy Foxx
03-22-2007, 11:22 PM
Because of this we hate bludgers and do occasionally feel discrimated at when we hear of the many many extra assisance, handouts for aboriginals, the most ridiculous is the children not required to attend school if they choose not to (how many kid do you know WANT to go to school?and how the hell is having no education help anyone?)

That's how I feel. I really strongly disagree with the fact that they get special treatment for no reason other than their heritage, just because they can pull the 'racist' card. I remember going to a nearby town as a teenager, to go to the orthodontist. I was sitting on a park bench with my brother waiting for mom while I was in a shop, and this aboriginal lady came up to us and told us to move, because we were sitting on 'her' bench. We said no, and she started sceaming abuse at us, "GET THE FUCK OFF MY SEAT YA RACIST LITTLE WHITE CUNTS OR I'LL FUCKIN STAB YA" and just started yelling "RACISTS! RACISTS!" at the top of her lungs.

I just think it's crap that we're still getting blamed for 'taking their land away'. Okay yeah, it sucked and the white settlers were mean to them, but that's the way life was back then. I did not take their land away. I just don't think it's fair that we should be blamed because our ancestors did something to their ancestors.

Krazyjane
03-23-2007, 01:06 AM
That's how I feel. I really strongly disagree with the fact that they get special treatment for no reason other than their heritage, just because they can pull the 'racist' card. I remember going to a nearby town as a teenager, to go to the orthodontist. I was sitting on a park bench with my brother waiting for mom while I was in a shop, and this aboriginal lady came up to us and told us to move, because we were sitting on 'her' bench. We said no, and she started sceaming abuse at us, "GET THE FUCK OFF MY SEAT YA RACIST LITTLE WHITE CUNTS OR I'LL FUCKIN STAB YA" and just started yelling "RACISTS! RACISTS!" at the top of her lungs.

I just think it's crap that we're still getting blamed for 'taking their land away'. Okay yeah, it sucked and the white settlers were mean to them, but that's the way life was back then. I did not take their land away. I just don't think it's fair that we should be blamed because our ancestors did something to their ancestors.
Amen, sister. When I was in Beijing, some people had a problem with my Japanese heritage, courtesy of the Rape of Nanjing and the colonization. Some girl actually asked me why we Japanese think that were better than everyone, and that I should be ashamed of what horrible people the Japanese are. WTF? If it means so much to you, then we can hold a seance in which my grandfather can apologize to her grandfather. I acknowledge that it happened, and I have empathy, but GET OVER IT. I didn't do a damn thing to hurt China, and she's no better than the Imperialist Japanese who she hates so much if she's going to begrudge as a whole.

Once they start being all hypocritical, demand freebies for wallowing in their self-pity, and blame all their problems on the whiteys, they they have lost all respect from me. I doubly lose respect when they are strongly racist towards others while shielding themselves with the comfy coccoon of victimhood. My friend is from Sierra Leone and was telling me about an Aboriginie girl who came up to her and started screaming, "You fucking nigger, get out of my country!" I love how victimized minorities will vehemently cast off chances of success because they don't want to be white, yet act as racist as the white people who persecuted them in the past. Despite their efforts or lack thereof, they have become what they hate most.

There are things that they cannot control, and things that they can control. Yes, they were fucked over in the past. They are no longer being fucked over so badly. They have opportunities to go to school and make something of themselves, or go back to their culture if they lobbied for land. God forbid they pull themselves out of their mire or stop perpetrating the stereotypes that they hate so much. Times have changed, and adjusting to these new times does not necessarily mean that their culture is being wiped out. If they wanted to, I'm sure that they could have more cultural societies and schools set up.

I fucking love the mindset of "If I rebel, then I'll be free and able to do as I damn please." My high school ex skipped school all the time, never did homework, turned in blank sheets of paper for tests, and dropped out of high school as soon as he could. His reason? "The government is trying to make me a sheep! I'm going to assert my freedom and not succumb to this fucking Nazi system!" He is now 22, knocked up his girlfriend, had to get welfare benefits, worked a bunch of dead-end jobs, and got shipped off to Iraq as a low-level grunt. Yep, he's soooo independent from the government now. My point is, rebelling isn't always the answer. Even if you hate the system and want to change things, sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

Reparations are not the answer, as it just fosters further grudges and encourages freeloading. Look at the Turks in Germany. Due to WWII, Germany is required to pay reparations to Turks, which translates into plenty of free rides courtesy of the government. Too many people are hitching rides and the German economy is toileting. I can understand compensating those who were directly affected by oppression, but at some point they need to move on.

Actually, while we're on the subject of reparations, I'm all for it. I am entitled to reparations. My Japanese side got the nukes and were imprisoned in American camps during WWII, and I was bullied so badly in school for my race that I had to receive counseling. My Scottish and Irish sides have been persecuted by the British. Hear that? I deserve THREE TIMES as many reparations as most people. Oh wait, I think I'll just shut the fuck up and move on because what's done is done, and I'm doing what I can to better myself.

MishaBliss
03-23-2007, 02:35 AM
It is based on racism. You won't see any British backpackers who've overstayed their visas in Woomera.

No. They get deported immediately. I've seen this myself. Similarly, do you suggest returning the refugees to thier countries of origin?


Also, if we're such an underpopulated country that we need to hand out a non-means tested, $4000 baby bonus, surely we should be encouraging immigration rather than imprisoning refugees. The baby bonus itself, when coupled with our immigration policy, is clearly racist. It's all about increasing the population with primarily white babies.

Bullshit. Aboriginals and non-white immigrants are also eligible for the baby bonus. Regardless, the only people that are encouraged to breed by the promise of a few grand are stupid people, be they black, white, green or whatever.



Also Australia is a First World country espousing Western values of freedom and democracy and as such should not be compared to countries that aren't and don't

Why not? People are people.

flickad
03-23-2007, 03:31 AM
No. They get deported immediately. I've seen this myself. Similarly, do you suggest returning the refugees to thier countries of origin?

No. I don't suggest locking them up though. I'd like to see temporary bridging visas until their cases are decided.


Bullshit. Aboriginals and non-white immigrants are also eligible for the baby bonus. Regardless, the only people that are encouraged to breed by the promise of a few grand are stupid people, be they black, white, green or whatever.

It's true that people of all colours receive the baby bonus and that you'd have to be a fairly moronic person to pop a baby out just to get it. Still, the fact that the Federal government has chosen to hand out a baby bonus instead of the obvious solution of relaxing immigration restrictions is inexplicable except by reference to xenophobia. Also, the majority of those eligible for the bonus are white Australians, which is why I used the word primarily as opposed to exclusively



Why not? People are people.

Because it's an unfair comparison. People may be people, but we aren't all alike. Comparing our country to a third world one is like pitting a champion tennis player against an amateur.

MishaBliss
03-23-2007, 04:00 AM
It's true that people of all colours receive the baby bonus and that you'd have to be a fairly moronic person to pop a baby out just to get it. Still, the fact that the Federal government has chosen to hand out a baby bonus instead of the obvious solution of relaxing immigration restrictions is inexplicable except by reference to xenophobia.

I myself think the world IS over populated and no one should be encouraging anyone to breed.
I understand the governments reluctance to relax immigration laws, as a great deal of immigrants to Australia don't want to, nor bother to learn english, rendering them umemployable and dependant on welfare. Welfare that is supported by taxpayers. No thanks. Australia already has plenty of bludgers of all colours...why create more?



Because it's an unfair comparison. People may be people, but we aren't all alike. Comparing our country to a third world one is like pitting a champion tennis player against an amateur.

So a third world country is the amateur and Australia is the champion? Hmm...?

flickad
03-23-2007, 05:27 AM
I myself think the world IS over populated and no one should be encouraging anyone to breed.
I understand the governments reluctance to relax immigration laws, as a great deal of immigrants to Australia don't want to, nor bother to learn english, rendering them umemployable and dependant on welfare. Welfare that is supported by taxpayers. No thanks. Australia already has plenty of bludgers of all colours...why create more?'

I agree with you that breeding should be discouraged due to world overpopulation. With unemployment at 3%, however, I disagree with the statement that we have 'plenty of bludgers'. Also, it is possible to make it a condition of immigration that migrants enrol in English literacy and job skills programs so as to avoid a generation of welfare-dependant individuals.





So a third world country is the amateur and Australia is the champion? Hmm...?

It was a simile rather than a metaphor, which should be fairly obvious from the surrounding context as a whole. In terms of civil rights, though, Australia is certainly a champion compared to some of the countries refugees flee from. As a Western democracy and signatory to a number of international human rights treaties, we should be held to our own standards rather than those of a country that does not preach democratic values.

Mastridonicus
03-23-2007, 07:26 AM
The context of breeding should be less concerned with the amount of people we're making and more concerned about the amount of people we aren't replacing.

Hey, All I'm saying is, if we lose an Geo-Physicist doing or an Aids Vaccine researcher, is there someone with the capabilities to continue the work?

MishaBliss
03-23-2007, 03:07 PM
I agree with you that breeding should be discouraged due to world overpopulation. With unemployment at 3%, however, I disagree with the statement that we have 'plenty of bludgers'. Also, it is possible to make it a condition of immigration that migrants enrol in English literacy and job skills programs so as to avoid a generation of welfare-dependant individuals.

Seems I should of done some research before opening my mouth :-[ 3%...Wow. Things have changed. I agree with the enrollment of migrants in said programs. It would be a shame to see that figure rise.

MishaBliss
03-23-2007, 03:09 PM
The context of breeding should be less concerned with the amount of people we're making and more concerned about the amount of people we aren't replacing.

Hey, All I'm saying is, if we lose an Geo-Physicist doing or an Aids Vaccine researcher, is there someone with the capabilities to continue the work?

I see your point. It's the majority of people that ARE reproducing that is a concern.
I fear the movie Idiocracy is prophetic :(

GoldCoastGirl
03-23-2007, 07:41 PM
I agree with you that breeding should be discouraged due to world overpopulation. With unemployment at 3%, however, I disagree with the statement that we have 'plenty of bludgers'. Also, it is possible to make it a condition of immigration that migrants enrol in English literacy and job skills programs so as to avoid a generation of welfare-dependant individuals.


Do not rely on the 'statistics' for unemployment. I can distinctly remember back in the day (as such) when those stats were "manipulated" as such. Well.. let's just say that just because people were "encouraged" to go onto AusStudy (be students) or other similiar maneouvers... the stats for unemployment were low when really in real life they were far higher.


I am definately someone who is behind "stop the breeding"! There are how many billions and billions of HUMANS in this world ?! The earth can't sustain the population as it is right now so why encourage it?

Granted, I do think the reason why the Govt is encouraging people to breed over people immigrating is due to how "fearful" of terrorists they are at present. I guess they figure a baby is far less harmless and definately not a terrorist or able to do damage to our national security over someone who immigrats to our country... and then bombs us.

flickad
03-23-2007, 08:13 PM
Do not rely on the 'statistics' for unemployment. I can distinctly remember back in the day (as such) when those stats were "manipulated" as such. Well.. let's just say that just because people were "encouraged" to go onto AusStudy (be students) or other similiar maneouvers... the stats for unemployment were low when really in real life they were far higher.


I am definately someone who is behind "stop the breeding"! There are how many billions and billions of HUMANS in this world ?! The earth can't sustain the population as it is right now so why encourage it?

Granted, I do think the reason why the Govt is encouraging people to breed over people immigrating is due to how "fearful" of terrorists they are at present. I guess they figure a baby is far less harmless and definately not a terrorist or able to do damage to our national security over someone who immigrats to our country... and then bombs us.

The statistics are in fact manipulated, as part time and casual employment are caught under the definition of 'employed'. Still, someone who is employed casually or part time is still relying on government handouts to a lesser degree, if at all.

Also, in my view the terrorism scare is hugely overhyped. Refugees are unlikely to be terrorists. Australia has also never suffered a direct terrorist attack and the only major attack in the US was September 11.

GoldCoastGirl
03-23-2007, 08:16 PM
The statistics are in fact manipulated, as part time and casual employment are caught under the definition of 'employed'. Still, someone who is employed casually or part time is still relying on government handouts to a lesser degree, if at all.

Take it from me.... It wasn't until I started stripping and earning good money stripping that I finally stopped accepting the hand-outs. All thru my Hospitality employment years I was still accepting hand-outs even if it was only an extra $50 or so per fortnight.

I was on "welfare" for many many many years.

Casual employment is rampant in this country and it only pays well when you have two jobs or are a stripper :D

flickad
03-23-2007, 08:19 PM
Take it from me.... It wasn't until I started stripping and earning good money stripping that I finally stopped accepting the hand-outs. All thru my Hospitality employment years I was still accepting hand-outs even if it was only an extra $50 or so per fortnight.

I was on "welfare" for many many many years.

Casual employment is rampant in this country and it only pays well when you have two jobs or are a stripper :D

I've been on the dole and working casually myself. However, working casually still meant that I got far less money from Centrelink. The dole is $420 a fortnight without rent assistance. $50 a fortnight compares very favourably to that in terms of public expenditure.

I've also worked casually and part time without accepting a cent from the government, even when earning a wage comparable to a Newstart payment.

jaizaine
03-23-2007, 09:47 PM
This is slightly off topic but a related issue is the fact that we are loosing a lot of our most talented and highly educated individuals here because there are not enough well-paid opportunities for them.

Our best thinkers - scientists, medical experts etc continue to leave Australia to work overseas because they can get paid twice or triple the amount that they will get paid here.

Monash University has recently opened it's stem cell research facility and have actually "imported" some great talent from overseas - which is a great step in the right direction.

This does not just applies to academia, it also applies to musicians, actors and film directors.

Krazyjane
03-23-2007, 10:27 PM
This is slightly off topic but a related issue is the fact that we are loosing a lot of our most talented and highly educated individuals here because there are not enough well-paid opportunities for them.

Our best thinkers - scientists, medical experts etc continue to leave Australia to work overseas because they can get paid twice or triple the amount that they will get paid here.

Monash University has recently opened it's stem cell research facility and have actually "imported" some great talent from overseas - which is a great step in the right direction.

This does not just applies to academia, it also applies to musicians, actors and film directors.
C'est la socialized medicine. America has lots of international healthcare staff because they cen get paid so much better over here.

Katrine
03-23-2007, 10:33 PM
What exactly is "working casually?" How does a young, healthy person get a dole despite the ability to work? Is it for students?

MishaBliss
03-23-2007, 10:38 PM
This is slightly off topic but a related issue is the fact that we are loosing a lot of our most talented and highly educated individuals here because there are not enough well-paid opportunities for them.

Our best thinkers - scientists, medical experts etc continue to leave Australia to work overseas because they can get paid twice or triple the amount that they will get paid here.

Monash University has recently opened it's stem cell research facility and have actually "imported" some great talent from overseas - which is a great step in the right direction.

This does not just applies to academia, it also applies to musicians, actors and film directors.

Yeah, the Australian government prefers to spend money rewarding able bodied youngsters for doing nothing. I'm all for benefits for the sick and elderly but it's wrong that so many people (myself included) can "grow up" knowing that no matter what choices they make, they can essentially be babies forever and rely on the government to support them. It really is sad. We have a nation of brats.

Krazyjane
03-23-2007, 11:48 PM
Yeah, the Australian government prefers to spend money rewarding able bodied youngsters for doing nothing. I'm all for benefits for the sick and elderly but it's wrong that so many people (myself included) can "grow up" knowing that no matter what choices they make, they can essentially be babies forever and rely on the government to support them. It really is sad. We have a nation of brats.
Dear lord... Ah well, Winston Churchill once said, "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

GoldCoastGirl
03-23-2007, 11:57 PM
What exactly is "working casually?" How does a young, healthy person get a dole despite the ability to work? Is it for students?

FROM http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/pubs/RN/2003-04/04RN53.htm

The Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) has tended to define a casual employee as someone who is not entitled to either paid holiday leave or paid sick leave (such workers often receive a 15-25 per cent loading in lieu). A more common perception is that a casual employee is someone in a job that is short-term, irregular and uncertain.


Alot of businesses esp. Hospitality (waitresses for instance) are casual. This means your hours are not determined week in and week out. One week you may work heaps and the next hardly have anything. Regardless, you can still get the dole if you work casually and earn under a certain amount of money each week.

AusStudy is the "welfare" equivalent for students ( http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/austudy.htm )

MishaBliss
03-23-2007, 11:58 PM
Dear lord... Ah well, Winston Churchill once said, "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

I am neither :P

Krazyjane
03-24-2007, 12:51 AM
I am neither :P
I am also neither, but I've seen where my tax dollars go, namely when helping deliver the 10th anchor kid of an immigrant on Medicaid.

flickad
03-24-2007, 01:59 AM
What exactly is "working casually?" How does a young, healthy person get a dole despite the ability to work? Is it for students?

A casual job is one with (often) no set hours and no job stability. Your schedule may change from week to week and you are not entitled to paid sick or annual leave. However, you get paid at a higher rate per hour.

The dole is a welfare payment for the unemployed or the underemployed. Its official name is Newstart payment (for the over 25s) or Youth Allowance (for those under 25). There is a seperate disability pension for those who do not have the ability to work, as well as an aged pension and one for single parents. While on the dole you are required to take part in activities determined by Centrelink (the welfare department) and to search for (and show evidence of searching for) a certain number of jobs per fortnight. If you find a casual or part time job, your payment will either be reduced accordingly or stop, depending on how much you earn.

flickad
03-24-2007, 02:04 AM
Yeah, the Australian government prefers to spend money rewarding able bodied youngsters for doing nothing. I'm all for benefits for the sick and elderly but it's wrong that so many people (myself included) can "grow up" knowing that no matter what choices they make, they can essentially be babies forever and rely on the government to support them. It really is sad. We have a nation of brats.

I disagree in that I feel that the government should support those who need supporting whilst they do. I would hate for us to have a homeless problem the size of America's (where welfare gets cut off after three months). However, I also feel that people should be encouraged to work if they can. Hence Centrelink's requirement that those in receipt of an unemployment benefit actively seek work and get help from a Job Network Member if they don't manage to find some within a three month period. It's a good balance, I think.

Krazyjane
03-24-2007, 02:21 AM
The big problem with American welfare is that you can't afford to get off it. Once it's over, you are no longer applicable for subsidized daycare, healthcare, etc. Therefore, they have to stay poor in order to get by. That's why although I fully favor capitalist medical options (it's what keeps the smart healthcare workers interested and in the country), I also favor some form of national healthcare. Hehe, lately, my arugument for a national american healthcare system is, "Why not? Enough people are working Medicaid."

MishaBliss
03-24-2007, 03:51 AM
I disagree in that I feel that the government should support those who need supporting whilst they do. I would hate for us to have a homeless problem the size of America's (where welfare gets cut off after three months). However, I also feel that people should be encouraged to work if they can. Hence Centrelink's requirement that those in receipt of an unemployment benefit actively seek work and get help from a Job Network Member if they don't manage to find some within a three month period. It's a good balance, I think.


You can't be serious. Most the people on Newstart don't actively seek work :D I'm ashamed to say that i've been on Newstart, and it is so damn easy to avoid job interviews and everybody does it.
Maybe if people were faced with the threat of being homeless, they'd step up and take some responsibility for themselves...and if not, too bad. Why should others (taxpayers) have to take on the responsibility for them? Treat them like children, they'll act as children.

GoldCoastGirl
03-24-2007, 05:20 AM
I've also been on Newstart (The Dole) for decent lengths of time thru just plain sheer laziness to not work as I'm getting handed money. Plus, at the time, all the work I was qualified to do was Hospitality... and that isn't that exciting to me.

Job Network members are hopeless! Seriously. Some of them are so incompetant!

Plus let's not even get me started on the whole Work for the Dole scheme. Fuck that! You don't even get enough to cover travel to/from the Work For The Dole activity you are participating within to make it worthwhile! I had to sometimes travel for over an hour or so on buses (as I certainly couldn't afford a car back then) to get to the activity! This happened for days too... it just wasn't worth it.

The ONLY time I thought Work For The Dole actually worth it for me was when I worked for Wildcare (www.wildcare.org.au) as then I felt like I was doing something worthwhile/worthy and actually using some of my office skills!

I dunno. Our welfare system has its plus and minuses.

.............................................and I just have to comment that it is interesting how this thread has progressed! LOL!!

aussiepunkshocker
03-24-2007, 06:00 AM
I am for the third time going to try to reply to this, lol!

I dont think the racism here is something you really need to worry alot about, especially as far as being in Melbourne is concerned. Yes it exists, but as I said before name somewhere where it doesnt.
I stopped getting called "nigger" for the most part the day I started dressing like a punk so its hard for me to say exactly as people see freak first before my skin colour. Im also lighter skinned and in Queensland especially its common for white people to be tanned as dark as I am so therefore I dont stand out that way... Im aware that some people who have darker skin or whos features are not typically European do have a harder time than me. My son had a hard time for a while in primary school for instance and I have an aunt who is Asian and I believe she hears about it fairly regularly. Having said that though, its never stopped either from getting ahead and making shitloads of friends. Melbourne is far more multicultural than Queensland anyway, you dont stick out so much not being white. When I first moved to Queensland 21 years ago, I didnt see any other people of African descent, lol - not one! Its different and changing now, but its still a new thing (-:

There is only a small population of people of African descent here. It has grown somewhat in recent years but I find that theres still alot of curiosity. People who want to touch your skin and maybe your hair. Also a bizarre thing - people who want to have babies with you because they think mixed race babies are the cutest. I have had many a guy try to chat me up and drop the baby thing into the conversation in the first couple of minutes! Crazy! Also theres the sleezy guys who've never slept with a black woman before and want to know what its like...


I have had a number of black friends here over the years from America, The West Indies, Britain, various African countries... Theres definatly that black thing bond and a sense of relief to be able to talk to each other from time to time, but I cant think of any really bad racial incidents that anyones had.

I think you should come. Australians for the most part are extremely friendly and welcoming. Im sure you'd have a blast! :)





I actually read an article about that young man a while back. Are race-relations getting better Aussie? I've always wanted to go to Austrailia (particularly Melbourne) to study abroad. I'm still interested in going too.

flickad
03-24-2007, 06:21 AM
You can't be serious. Most the people on Newstart don't actively seek work :D I'm ashamed to say that i've been on Newstart, and it is so damn easy to avoid job interviews and everybody does it.
Maybe if people were faced with the threat of being homeless, they'd step up and take some responsibility for themselves...and if not, too bad. Why should others (taxpayers) have to take on the responsibility for them? Treat them like children, they'll act as children.

I am serious, and they've toughened the requirements since I first got on Newstart in 2004 (I was on it for two years). Now, you have to attend job skills courses and look for work in front of Job Network Member staff. They're not all social-workery types anymore either. Many of them are quite tough.

If we don't provide a decent social welfare system, we will pay in other ways (ie with increased crime rates and increased law enforcement costs). It's much better- and cheaper- to support the unemployed (with the condition that they seek work).


P.S.- Not everybody avoids job interviews either. Most people do get off benefits and into work eventually.

aussiepunkshocker
03-24-2007, 07:34 AM
I believe that to be incorrect. Most people on Newstart DO activley seek work. There is a small percentage of people who dont, but its not typical. I got that answer from someone who worked in centrelink for 18 years or so and im pretty sure that they are a reliable source.
Newstart allowance is also officially 18 percent below the Australian poverty line.(Perhaps more - this figure is several years old now.)



You can't be serious. Most the people on Newstart don't actively seek work :D I'm ashamed to say that i've been on Newstart, and it is so damn easy to avoid job interviews and everybody does it.
Maybe if people were faced with the threat of being homeless, they'd step up and take some responsibility for themselves...and if not, too bad. Why should others (taxpayers) have to take on the responsibility for them? Treat them like children, they'll act as children.

Katrine
03-24-2007, 11:08 AM
Wow...I wouldn't even know where to go for any welfare or handouts here in the states. Students do not receive random government assistance. There are grants, loans, scholarships, work-study, etc....

As far as I see, being a single, childless, causasian able-bodies female, they would laugh me out of any welfare office and snicker at any request for "underemployment" benefits.

But hey, as I see from the other able-bodies females here, if its offered, take it. How does that translate into your taxes? Are they significantly higher here?