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James Bond
09-20-2007, 04:54 AM
I don't like Hillary and wouldn't vote for her, I support Ron Paul.

But in defense of Bill Clinton:

Except for the two judges that G.W.Bush appointed, Bill Clinton was an ultra-conservative compared to G.W.Bush. Bush is really a liberal who masquerades as a conservative. If you compare G.W.Bush's record to Bill Clintons, and you're not drinking the cool-aid, it's obvious that Bill Clinton was 10 times more conservative than Bush.

Clinton increased Fed-spending 2% per year; Bush 8%

G.W.Bush increased spending at a rate higher than FDR or LBJ, and has increased spending at a faster rate than any President in history. Oh, save your excuses, I don't want to hear it from the cool-aid drinkers.

No new entitlements or government depts under Clinton; Bush started the drug prescription entitlement and the Department of Homeland Security.

Clinton preserved the Constitution; Bush dismantled it.

While Clinton didn't do much for border security, Bush has encouraged a wholesale invasion from the Third World. G.W.Bush is the most treasonist President ever. He should be tried and punished for treason (if you know what I mean).

Bosnia was Clintons only nation-building; Bush wants to nation-build half the world.

Bill Clinton: surpluses
Bush: Bankrupted us.

The list goes on and on. The Republicans are anti-American, anti-Democratic assholes.

So, people like Rush Scumbaugh, Hannity, G.W.Bush are really liberals who masquerade as conservatives. You can see their hatred of true conservatives like Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul. The Republican Party hates true conservatives like Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan.

I call Rush, Hannity, Bush, and people who support them, Cocksucking Conservatives. A bunch of phoney mother fuckers who are destroying the country.

Who would've thunk that it would be the Republicans who destroyed the Constitution, our national sovereignty, our economy, our freedoms, the dollar, etc.

Republicans are too incompetent to govern. The only form of government they should be allowed near is dog catchers, garbage men, and sewer cleaners.

Oh, the good ole days of Clinton when we had peace, prosperity, surpluses, and a thriving middle-class. Now we got these asshole Republicans who are at war with the middle-class and our very way of life. The terrorists ain't got nothing on these guys.

IRONY: I used to be a Republican, a true conservative. But I supported Pat Buchanan, and when the Party nominated G.W.Bush, I went Third Party and supported Pat Buchanan.

I predicted that G.W.Bush would destroy the conservative movement and the Republican Party, which all came true. I never dreamed this asshole would destroy the country like he has.

The only Republican that I'd support now is Ron Paul. The rest ain't worth a shit.

The reason people don't like Bill Clinton (I didn't vote for him, but looking back, he was 100 times better than any Republican, and more conservative, ironic, isn't it), is because they're caught up in the "I'm conservative/Republican, I'm good, you're liberal/Democrat, you're bad, mental trap." They can't think or reason things through.

If any Republican President had Bill Clinton's record, he'd be hailed as better than Reagan, and the Republicans would get teary-eyed just mentioning his name.

Eric Stoner
09-20-2007, 07:34 AM
^^^ your history of the outflow of federal tax dollars from NY taxpayers to pay for projects in other states is exactly correct. However, this time around, Hilary may actually reverse this ... via a new 'tool' in the box. If you check the latest NY statistics, you'll find that one of the fastest growing employment segments in NY state ( or more cynically, one of the ONLY growing employment segments in NY state) is federal civil service jobs - i.e. homeland security agencies, counterterrorism / intelligence agencies etc. If this keeps up for four years, NY might start to resemble California / Arizona / Tennessee in terms of employment / economy funding via the 'import' of federal tax money from other states.

PS Arkansas did get a huge amount of federal spending while Mr. Bill was in the oval office. However, because the nature of that federal spending wasn't all that politically acceptable (the largest federal chunk went to the Pine Bluff Arsenal ... the birthplace of new chemical weapons !) you didn't hear a lot about it in the media. However, the locals knew it was there (it was fairly easy to tell by driving down I65 between Little Rock and Pine Bluff in the 90's and looking at about 4 square miles of orange / purple / dead trees along the side of the road !!!)

Clinton TRIED to increase Federal spending until the Republican Congress eventually got him to sign Gramm-Rudman AFTER he had vetoed such legislation several times.
Clinton was a POLITICIAN first and foremost and was a damn good one. He was a master at gauging the political winds and deciding just how far he could go without risking a drop in his polls.
The fact remains that After 8 years of Bill , Arkansas is still the national "outhouse".

Eric Stoner
09-20-2007, 07:59 AM
I don't like Hillary and wouldn't vote for her, I support Ron Paul.

But in defense of Bill Clinton:

Except for the two judges that G.W.Bush appointed, Bill Clinton was an ultra-conservative compared to G.W.Bush. Bush is really a liberal who masquerades as a conservative. If you compare G.W.Bush's record to Bill Clintons, and you're not drinking the cool-aid, it's obvious that Bill Clinton was 10 times more conservative than Bush.

Clinton increased Fed-spending 2% per year; Bush 8%

G.W.Bush increased spending at a rate higher than FDR or LBJ, and has increased spending at a faster rate than any President in history. Oh, save your excuses, I don't want to hear it from the cool-aid drinkers.

No new entitlements or government depts under Clinton; Bush started the drug prescription entitlement and the Department of Homeland Security.

Clinton preserved the Constitution; Bush dismantled it.

While Clinton didn't do much for border security, Bush has encouraged a wholesale invasion from the Third World. G.W.Bush is the most treasonist President ever. He should be tried and punished for treason (if you know what I mean).

Bosnia was Clintons only nation-building; Bush wants to nation-build half the world.

Bill Clinton: surpluses
Bush: Bankrupted us.

The list goes on and on. The Republicans are anti-American, anti-Democratic assholes.

So, people like Rush Scumbaugh, Hannity, G.W.Bush are really liberals who masquerade as conservatives. You can see their hatred of true conservatives like Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul. The Republican Party hates true conservatives like Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan.

I call Rush, Hannity, Bush, and people who support them, Cocksucking Conservatives. A bunch of phoney mother fuckers who are destroying the country.

Who would've thunk that it would be the Republicans who destroyed the Constitution, our national sovereignty, our economy, our freedoms, the dollar, etc.

Republicans are too incompetent to govern. The only form of government they should be allowed near is dog catchers, garbage men, and sewer cleaners.

Oh, the good ole days of Clinton when we had peace, prosperity, surpluses, and a thriving middle-class. Now we got these asshole Republicans who are at war with the middle-class and our very way of life. The terrorists ain't got nothing on these guys.

IRONY: I used to be a Republican, a true conservative. But I supported Pat Buchanan, and when the Party nominated G.W.Bush, I went Third Party and supported Pat Buchanan.

I predicted that G.W.Bush would destroy the conservative movement and the Republican Party, which all came true. I never dreamed this asshole would destroy the country like he has.

The only Republican that I'd support now is Ron Paul. The rest ain't worth a shit.

The reason people don't like Bill Clinton (I didn't vote for him, but looking back, he was 100 times better than any Republican, and more conservative, ironic, isn't it), is because they're caught up in the "I'm conservative/Republican, I'm good, you're liberal/Democrat, you're bad, mental trap." They can't think or reason things through.

If any Republican President had Bill Clinton's record, he'd be hailed as better than Reagan, and the Republicans would get teary-eyed just mentioning his name.


I agree with you about Paul. He is the ONLY one running who has any understanding or appreciation for CONSTITUTIONAL government i.e. strictly limited by The Constitution.
You are correct about Bush. Sadly, he and the Republican Congress spent like drunken sailors. Even after allowing for the ruinous war in Iraq and othe ranti-terror operations plus Homeland Security spending ; Federal outlays exploded under Bush- No Child left Behind ; Medicare Prescription Drugs and shameless
pork barrel-earmarks.
As I pointed out to Melonie, the real reason spending under Clinton was controlled was Gramm-Rudman which Clinton opposed but was eventually forced to sign.
Your historical perspective vis a vis FDR and LBJ is way off. Deficits under FDR during WWII were as high as 25% of GDP ! We won WWII on billions of BORROWED money. Remember all the Bond Drives ? What did you think those were about ?
Btw, not so fast on giving Der Slickmeister an ACLU merit badge. It was CLINTON, not Bush, who signed the 1996 Anti-Terrorism and Death Penalty Act of 1996 severely limited Federal habeas corpus rights for Death Row inmates. it was
CLINTON who scrambled home from New Hampshire in 1992 to preside over the execution of Ricky Lee Rector who was so brain-damaged he had no idea he was even being executed or why.
The PRIMARY reasons for surpluses under Clinton were a booming stock market
( which he did NOTHING to promote) and Capital Gains Tax Cuts which he did
reluctantly sign after getting his arm twisted by the Republicans and his own Treasury Secretary- Bob Rubin.
The reason the dollar is "weak" is not because it is weak per se but because other currencies are comparatively stronger resulting from government policies that prop up or support the Euro or other foreign currencies. Nonetheless, OUR
economic growth rate is higher and OUR unemployment is lower.
I also agree with your disgust with "Nanny Conservatives" who are just as bad as
"Nanny Liberals". I part company with Rush ( and I can't stand that asshole
Hannity ) is over their support for and approval of governmental interference in our private lives usually revolving around sex.

In a perverse way, I WANT Hillary to win because I know she will not be any better than Bush and in some ways will be worse. After four years of her , hopefuly the country wil be ready for a REAL conservative who truly believes in LIMITED government.

Melonie
09-22-2007, 08:01 AM
n a perverse way, I WANT Hillary to win because I know she will not be any better than Bush and in some ways will be worse. After four years of her , hopefuly the country wil be ready for a REAL conservative who truly believes in LIMITED government.

Agreed on needing 4 years of democratic majority + democratic presidency to remind Americans of the lessons they should have learned under FDR and LBJ and Jimmy Carter and to some extent Bill Clinton (who as you point out was restrained by republican majorities in congress). The major drawback of course is that the actions set in motion during these democratic total majority periods tend to continue to haunt us politically and economically for generations to come.


As to Dr. Ron Paul, if only most Americans could see beyond next week, or see beyond their own gov't subsidies / benefits checks ...

Eric Stoner
09-22-2007, 03:06 PM
Agreed on needing 4 years of democratic majority + democratic presidency to remind Americans of the lessons they should have learned under FDR and LBJ and Jimmy Carter and to some extent Bill Clinton (who as you point out was restrained by republican majorities in congress). The major drawback of course is that the actions set in motion during these democratic total majority periods tend to continue to haunt us politically and economically for generations to come.


As to Dr. Ron Paul, if only most Americans could see beyond next week, or see beyond their own gov't subsidies / benefits checks ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8

Hmmm. You raise an interesting point which is that history teaches us that once implemented, Federal programs are here to stay.For instance, Reagan was supposed to abolish the Dept. of Education and didn't.

Melonie
09-23-2007, 02:24 AM
^^^ well, from a viewpoint of political longevity, creating new positions for more civil service workers with generous tax funded paychecks does build a very loyal base of support for future elections ! It also provides more CSEA union money / donations for public support during future elections as well. Being from NY I'm sure this comes as no surprise, since the civil service / CSEA lobby and political advertising play a big role in state elections.

It's a scary statistic that, from an recent news report, one in FIVE working Americans now work in civil service / public sector jobs - which is HUGE . Dr. Ron Paul is the ONLY politician I have ever heard go on record proposing to reduce the size of gov't thus reduce the number of civil service employees.

Eric Stoner
09-24-2007, 11:20 AM
^^^ well, from a viewpoint of political longevity, creating new positions for more civil service workers with generous tax funded paychecks does build a very loyal base of support for future elections ! It also provides more CSEA union money / donations for public support during future elections as well. Being from NY I'm sure this comes as no surprise, since the civil service / CSEA lobby and political advertising play a big role in state elections.

It's a scary statistic that, from an recent news report, one in FIVE working Americans now work in civil service / public sector jobs - which is HUGE . Dr. Ron Paul is the ONLY politician I have ever heard go on record proposing to reduce the size of gov't thus reduce the number of civil service employees.

If you haven't already, read "The Forgotten Man". It tells how FDR "bought" the 1936 Election with WPA money making millions of people dependent on the FEDERAL Gov't and more than doubling Federal spending all without doing a thing to solve the Depression.

naughty_princess
09-27-2007, 11:00 PM
im in california......im voting for hilary if shes the dem candidate.....

Eric Stoner
11-05-2007, 12:24 PM
I confess to being bemused by how "hurt" Hillary was after her fellow Dems and
Tim Russert ( (TIM RUSSERT ?) ganged up and "played gotcha" at the last debate.
She's implied that the "boys" piled on because she is a woman. I'd like to see her asked if she plans on playing the "gender card" with foreign leaders if she runs into trouble as President ?

I'd also like to see her asked HOW Social Security gained 4 years of solvency when she claims it has lost 14 years under Bush. In 2000, the last year of Bill's second term the trustees said it would be solvent until 2037. Now they are reporting it will be solvent until 2041. Or can't she do the math ?

In the 1990's, after her Health Plan crashed and burned the Clintonistas furiously denied she was a "co-President" or that she had veto power on certain appointments etc. Now she claims she has "White House experience". Which is it Hillary ?

For eight (8) years Hillary sat on the Board of Directors of Wal-Mart. What position did she take then regarding health care for Wal-Mart employees ? On employment of Illegal Aliens-EXCUSE ME !- I mean "undocumented workers"; on importation of Chinese made products from Prison Labor ?

Why is Cheney's secrecy "bad" but her secret Health Care meetings O.K. ?

She has denounced Halliburton's "no-bid" contracts in Iraq. Why didn't she say anything about their no-bid contracts in the former Yugoslavia when Bill was President ?

There are dozens of these and other questions she can and will be asked sooner or later. Let's see how many different answers she can come up with to each one.

erotictonic
11-15-2007, 04:56 AM
These guys always attack one another. When are they going to realize it does more harm than good?

I don't know what I think of Hillary, but attacking and arguing with each other really doesn't prove anything to me, because I won't listen to anyone who uses those means of communication.

I just want the truth, or as close to it as I can find.

Eric Stoner
12-17-2007, 12:56 PM
Still waiting for someone; ANYONE to point to one positive accomplishment by Hillary.
She was put in charge of health care reform and failed.
As First Lady of Arkansas Bill put her in charge of improving Public Education and Arkansas went from 34th to 49th in student achievement .
And she paints herself as the "experienced" candidate ? Experienced at what ?
Stonewalling investigations ? Losing files and destroying evidence ?

She is VERY experienced at one thing. While First Lady SHE hired the P.I.'s who dug up dirt on and threatened Kathleen Willey and others who had affairs with or were sexually assaulted by Bill. She was behind digging up Obama's Kindergarten records. SHE has made his past ADMITTED drug use as a "yoot" a major talking point . She is well versed in the "politics of personal destruction" and practices it herself.

jester214
12-18-2007, 03:29 AM
Still waiting for someone; ANYONE to point to one positive accomplishment by Hillary.
She was put in charge of health care reform and failed.
As First Lady of Arkansas Bill put her in charge of improving Public Education and Arkansas went from 34th to 49th in student achievement .
And she paints herself as the "experienced" candidate ? Experienced at what ?
Stonewalling investigations ? Losing files and destroying evidence ?

She is VERY experienced at one thing. While First Lady SHE hired the P.I.'s who dug up dirt on and threatened Kathleen Willey and others who had affairs with or were sexually assaulted by Bill. She was behind digging up Obama's Kindergarten records. SHE has made his past ADMITTED drug use as a "yoot" a major talking point . She is well versed in the "politics of personal destruction" and practices it herself.

So much to say, so little that people will actually read...

A ton of Hillary support is based on the Bill Era. The Bill Era represents N.A.F.T.A. and sex scandals to me. To others it represents economic good times, which can mostly be attributed to an economic upswing. Also the fact that it looks downright great when compared to Bush's first 4 years, again which can be contributed to 911 and economic downswing.

A lot of shortshighted people think that getting Hillary, will bring back Bill, which will bring back a good economy... Not to mention the guy was likeable, in a adultery kind of way....;D

Hillary might push some pork to New York, but I kinda doubt it. She has one agenda, nationalize health care. New York was a stepping stone to a political career, she has not true attachment to it.

Likeability is extremely important, everbody loved Reagan. Taft got elected because T. Roosevelt told eveyone how much Taft was like him, and everyone liked T. R.

If she gets elected she'll probably accomplish something, crappy healthcare for everyone, which will be so bad no one will want it. Trust me, from someone who has dealt closely will healthcare insurance. The private sector isn't very good at it, the government will be terrible.

Eric Stoner
12-18-2007, 08:46 AM
So much to say, so little that people will actually read...

A ton of Hillary support is based on the Bill Era. The Bill Era represents N.A.F.T.A. and sex scandals to me. To others it represents economic good times, which can mostly be attributed to an economic upswing. Also the fact that it looks downright great when compared to Bush's first 4 years, again which can be contributed to 911 and economic downswing.

A lot of shortshighted people think that getting Hillary, will bring back Bill, which will bring back a good economy... Not to mention the guy was likeable, in a adultery kind of way....;D

Hillary might push some pork to New York, but I kinda doubt it. She has one agenda, nationalize health care. New York was a stepping stone to a political career, she has not true attachment to it.

Likeability is extremely important, everbody loved Reagan. Taft got elected because T. Roosevelt told eveyone how much Taft was like him, and everyone liked T. R.

If she gets elected she'll probably accomplish something, crappy healthcare for everyone, which will be so bad no one will want it. Trust me, from someone who has dealt closely will healthcare insurance. The private sector isn't very good at it, the government will be terrible.


Thank YOU ! Seriously. You have made my whole point. By and large, much of her support is HIS. They really don't want her. They know she's a phony. They don't particularly like her but think that if she's elected then somehow Bill will be President again. Some people want a re-run of the 3 - Ring Circus of the Clintons.
The ultimate beneficiaries will be Colbert; Stewart; Leno; Letterman; Kimmel and Bill Maher. At least we can all go laughing into a deep recession.

And just how will Hillary give us booming economic times again ? Not with her spending and tax policies she won't.

jester214
12-18-2007, 09:03 AM
And just how will Hillary give us booming economic times again ? Not with her spending and tax policies she won't.

I'm a firm beleiver that no President can magically control the economy, the American economy moves in cycles, always has, and always will. A president can certainly make dents, but in bad times they're not going to be able to do enough, and in good times they're probably gonna avoid it, or maybe even hurt it a little.

lol, always glad to help.

Eric Stoner
12-18-2007, 10:28 AM
I'm a firm beleiver that no President can magically control the economy, the American economy moves in cycles, always has, and always will. A president can certainly make dents, but in bad times they're not going to be able to do enough, and in good times they're probably gonna avoid it, or maybe even hurt it a little.

lol, always glad to help.

I don't know about that. We're still paying the price for all of FDR's and LBJ's
mischief and reaping the benefits of the Reagan and Bush tax cuts.

firekitten19
12-18-2007, 12:16 PM
None of that is important--that's all tabloid-worthy bullshit.

Likeability is not electability. Obama is very charismatic, but untested, underfunded and underorganized. HRC is just getting started and she has a track record of performance and knowledge of the system within DC and the Beltway. Sure, Obama raised more money in the first quarter, but they were from small donors rather than institutional donors. HRC can command more money from bigger political concerns, including businesses. You don't have to like her to think that she's someone who can be dealt with and has the ability to get things done.

HRC is a lot of things; stupid isn't one of them.
Rember voting on charisma got us Bush. I am not saying that Obama is Bush ( don't kill me). You take what all of these canidates say with a grin of salt. They can promise to this and that, in the end their promises may not happen for various reasons.
I notice that Hillary's approval rating started to go down after the drivers licens for illegals comment. I know imigration is a sensitive subject, but I wish the American would actually research imigration law. Let me tell you it is a bitch. I just got done waiting 9 months waiting for my boyfriend to come back from Taiwan. He has been a legal residence for 13yrs.Because his job didn't want to sponsor him anymore he had to go back. I have a friend in Mexico ( who is fluent in 3 languages including English)trying to come to this country and she keep on being denied entry. We need imigration reform big time. If some hits me with their car, I don't care if your legal or not. I am going to track your ass down and get my money!
I know that Hillary can come off as a bit cold, but that can be used to her advantage in foreign affairs. She is firm in what she believes in and won't back down. Unlike the the dog and pony show you see Condi Rice go through. We need a present with some Balls!!! So far on the Dem side it is Hillary.

Pamela
12-18-2007, 12:48 PM
I like Hillary for reasons posted by some and watching her.

I have to say i kinda like Obama too, perhaps not as much, because he does not answer questions straight out it seems.

Is tough.

Eric Stoner
12-18-2007, 01:15 PM
Rember voting on charisma got us Bush. I am not saying that Obama is Bush ( don't kill me). You take what all of these canidates say with a grin of salt. They can promise to this and that, in the end their promises may not happen for various reasons.
I notice that Hillary's approval rating started to go down after the drivers licens for illegals comment. I know imigration is a sensitive subject, but I wish the American would actually research imigration law. Let me tell you it is a bitch. I just got done waiting 9 months waiting for my boyfriend to come back from Taiwan. He has been a legal residence for 13yrs.Because his job didn't want to sponsor him anymore he had to go back. I have a friend in Mexico ( who is fluent in 3 languages including English)trying to come to this country and she keep on being denied entry. We need imigration reform big time. If some hits me with their car, I don't care if your legal or not. I am going to track your ass down and get my money!
I know that Hillary can come off as a bit cold, but that can be used to her advantage in foreign affairs. She is firm in what she believes in and won't back down. Unlike the the dog and pony show you see Condi Rice go through. We need a present with some Balls!!! So far on the Dem side it is Hillary.


If she ever had a real set she'd be wearing Bill's from her ears !
Does anyone seriously think a woman who has known about, tolerated and even encouraged serial adultery has any respect for herself ? And if she doesn't respect herself; if she'll put up with and endure ANYTHING just to be President; what kind of President do you really think she'd be ?

I WISH what you've posted about her was remotely true. One of many problems with Hillary is that she does NOT have core values and beliefs. She will take whatever position is popular . She'll say whatever the latest focus group tells her to. She'll step on or walk over ANYONE who is in her way to the Oval Office.

Ambition is good. It is an admirable qualtiy so long as it is controlled and does not become an obsession. Hillary is obsessed with winning the White House which is why she has done so poorly since flubbing the Immigration issue question back in October.

TheSexKitten
12-18-2007, 09:24 PM
If she ever had a real set she'd be wearing Bill's from her ears !
Does anyone seriously think a woman who has known about, tolerated and even encouraged serial adultery has any respect for herself ? And if she doesn't respect herself; if she'll put up with and endure ANYTHING just to be President; what kind of President do you really think she'd be ?


Are you kidding me?! ::) Man I won't even touch this.

Eric Stoner
12-19-2007, 10:00 AM
Are you kidding me?! ::) Man I won't even touch this.

NO. I was totally serious. Do YOU seriously think she hasn't known for decades about Bill's philandering ? The woman overheard to say to Bill at a Little Rock cocktail party while he was engrossed and flirting with another woman: "Come on Bill, you can't fuck her here. " ?

Why do you think Clinton didn't run in 1988 when EVERYONE thought he would ? It was because he had SERIOUS "bimbo eruptions" back in Arkansas that he had to take care of.

TheSexKitten
12-19-2007, 12:50 PM
But who the hell cares?! That's their business, maybe she doesn't give as much of a fuck as she's "supposed" to.

Eric Stoner
12-19-2007, 02:22 PM
But who the hell cares?! That's their business, maybe she doesn't give as much of a fuck as she's "supposed" to.

Afaic the ONLY legit reason to care is the virtual certainty that she will be distracted from carrying out her duties by having to deal with the ramifications of HIS behavior. The ONLY reason she cares; has ever cared and will ever care about his nonsense is the PR impact.

Btw, it never ceases to amaze me how affectionate some folks are for an accused sexual assaulter and RAPIST. Packwood was drummed out of the Senate for a lot less but then he was a Republican. Craig never actually DID anything but he's a Republican ( and a horse's ass btw imho ).

I've repeatedly asked for someone to cite a single, solid Public Service accomplishment by Hillary. To date, no one has so let me ask this : Cite something about her that you find to be real ; genuine ; legit. Something about her and her history that inspires trust and confidence. NOT a position that you like or agree with. She has a few that I even like. NO- Something about her that is really appealing.

Melonie
12-21-2007, 03:06 AM
well let's see ....

Since she became my US senator in 2000, manufacturing jobs in upstate NY have declined by 20%. State and local taxes have gone up by 20%. Civil service employment has gone up by 20%. Sounds like a perfect track record ... for a rich liberal !

PhaedrusZ
12-21-2007, 05:14 AM
I've always been registered "declines to state," and right now, I can't recall if we still have an open primary in CA. But if we do, I'll request a Republican ballot this time around, and vote for Ron Paul. Even though he doesn't have much of a chance to ever become the Republican candidate, let alone President.

So it's basically a "protest vote" against all the other candidates, both Democratic and Republican, who are vying for the "opportunity" to drive this country into the ground even further than it already is!

James Bond
12-21-2007, 06:15 AM
Most people don't really like Hillary. Most people don't really like any of the system candidates that are forced on the public by the Powers-That-Be, be they Republican or Democrat, except Ron Paul.

It's not a matter of liking Hillary as it is a matter of hating the Republicans so much that Hillary looks like an angel in comparison.

G.W.Bush's murder of around 1 million Iraqis and 4 thousand Americans, his bankrupting of the U.S., the exporting of millions of middle-class jobs, his treason in allowing the U.S. to be invaded by a foreign nation (Mexico), etc. etc., makes the malfeasance of Bill and Hillary Clinton look like child's play in comparison. Electing any Republican, except Ron Paul, would be a continuation of Bush's policies.

Who would have thought that the Republicans would be so evil and destructive that the Democrats would look like saints in comparison.

It's a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils, not who you like. If there's a choice between Hillary and any of the Republicans (except Ron Paul), the public may choose Hillary because the Republicans are just so hell-bent on destroying us.

Ron Paul in 2008!

Lapaholic
12-21-2007, 07:00 AM
^^^ And except for Dennis Kucinich... I mean he is the DEms RP... Speaks his mind, is too far left of most of the country and will never get elected. But is a refreshing change from the rest of the pack.

James Bond
12-21-2007, 07:21 AM
^^^ Yeah, he's good, too, so is Gravel. I like anyone who'll get us out of Iraq, immediately.

jester214
12-21-2007, 10:27 AM
Most people don't really like Hillary. Most people don't really like any of the system candidates that are forced on the public by the Powers-That-Be, be they Republican or Democrat, except Ron Paul.

It's not a matter of liking Hillary as it is a matter of hating the Republicans so much that Hillary looks like an angel in comparison.

G.W.Bush's murder of around 1 million Iraqis and 4 thousand Americans, his bankrupting of the U.S., the exporting of millions of middle-class jobs, his treason in allowing the U.S. to be invaded by a foreign nation (Mexico), etc. etc., makes the malfeasance of Bill and Hillary Clinton look like child's play in comparison. Electing any Republican, except Ron Paul, would be a continuation of Bush's policies.

Who would have thought that the Republicans would be so evil and destructive that the Democrats would look like saints in comparison.

It's a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils, not who you like. If there's a choice between Hillary and any of the Republicans (except Ron Paul), the public may choose Hillary because the Republicans are just so hell-bent on destroying us.

Ron Paul in 2008!

You're an idiot. Murder? Treason? Invasion?

Exporting of millions of jobs? Who signed NAFTA?

Bankrupting of America? Well it's a good thing Hillary's gonna get us all Healthcare, because thats gonna lower taxes and make everything better.

If you think Hillary is the "lesser of two evils" then you obviously don't know her too well. As I recall she voted to be part of that "murder" atleast until it didn't look so good to be part of it.

If you have a problem with Bush, fine. But don't try and dramatize his actions to the negative. Why can't people like you understand that while he is a powerful guy, he doesn't just wake up every day and make descisions at the drop of a hat.

James Bond
12-21-2007, 11:01 AM
You're an idiot. Murder? Treason? Invasion?

Exporting of millions of jobs? Who signed NAFTA?

Bankrupting of America? Well it's a good thing Hillary's gonna get us all Healthcare, because thats gonna lower taxes and make everything better.

If you think Hillary is the "lesser of two evils" then you obviously don't know her too well. As I recall she voted to be part of that "murder" atleast until it didn't look so good to be part of it.

If you have a problem with Bush, fine. But don't try and dramatize his actions to the negative. Why can't people like you understand that while he is a powerful guy, he doesn't just wake up every day and make descisions at the drop of a hat.


jester214, you're the idiot. Your post makes no sense and you have no idea about what's going on.

Everything I said about Bush is true. Hillary would be a lesser of two evils between her and a Republican (except Ron Paul). I didn't say Hillary would be a good President, you moron, I said she'd be the lesser of two evils. And the lesser of two evils is still evil, you dumbass.

TheSexKitten
12-21-2007, 12:18 PM
I really like the Libertarianism of Ron Paul, but I don't like the fact that he's so isolationist, and also a lot of the stuff he backs would be IMPOSSIBLE to make happen. You know, legal weed + prostitution, etc. Also I'd be afraid he'd be easily persuaded to try and put a ban on abortion, despite the fact that he seems to want that issue to be left to the states.

Aside from Ron Paul (or possibly Giuliani), Hillary would get my vote MILES before a fuckin nutcase like Huckabee or Hunter would. In fact, I'd vote for Al Sharpton before voting for those freaks.

jester214
12-21-2007, 12:21 PM
jester214, you're the idiot. Your post makes no sense and you have no idea about what's going on.

Everything I said about Bush is true. Hillary would be a lesser of two evils between her and a Republican (except Ron Paul). I didn't say Hillary would be a good President, you moron, I said she'd be the lesser of two evils. And the lesser of two evils is still evil, you dumbass.

How is it my post makes no sense? I don't know what I'm talking about? You just accused a single man of murder, treason, and exporting millions of jobs, and I don't know what I'm talking about?

Everything you said about Bush is true? Treason? I guess thats why the Democrat controlled congress has got him up for impeachment. Oh wait... The Republicans are trying to destroy us? These are your moronic opinions, that doesn't make them the true.

I don't even know why I'm responding, anywho thinks that American Politics are as cut and dry as you must be barely literate.

jester214
12-21-2007, 12:22 PM
I really like the Libertarianism of Ron Paul, but I don't like the fact that he's so isolationist, and also a lot of the stuff he backs would be IMPOSSIBLE to make happen. You know, legal weed + prostitution, etc. Also I'd be afraid he'd be easily persuaded to try and put a ban on abortion, despite the fact that he seems to want that issue to be left to the states.

Aside from Ron Paul (or possibly Giuliani), Hillary would get my vote MILES before a fuckin nutcase like Huckabee or Hunter would. In fact, I'd vote for Al Sharpton before voting for those freaks.

Wow I hope the Al Sharpton comment is exageration...

TheSexKitten
12-21-2007, 03:25 PM
... somewhat...

Huckabee and Hunter are way too radical. They want to make everyone conform to what they dictate based on their interpretation of an old book. No thanks. They and religious right wackos everywhere are a great disservice to the Republican Party.

jester214
12-21-2007, 07:16 PM
^^^^Agreed! Athough I think I'd have to have one of them before I took Sharpton

Eric Stoner
12-22-2007, 12:17 PM
Come on people. There is NO need for name-calling. NONE and it's counter-persuasive because it detracts from the merits of the "name-callers" arguments.
Disagree all you like but Attack IDEAS and not persons.

James Bond
12-22-2007, 04:52 PM
Come on people. There is NO need for name-calling. NONE and it's counter-persuasive because it detracts from the merits of the "name-callers" arguments.
Disagree all you like but Attack IDEAS and not persons.

FU! LOL!

TheSexKitten
12-22-2007, 05:25 PM
Come on people. There is NO need for name-calling. NONE and it's counter-persuasive because it detracts from the merits of the "name-callers" arguments.
Disagree all you like but Attack IDEAS and not persons.

... what? Sorry but you might want to remember that you're discussing politics on a stripper board.

jester214
12-23-2007, 04:23 PM
... what? Sorry but you might want to remember that you're discussing politics on a stripper board.

What does that have to do with anything?

TheSexKitten
12-23-2007, 06:09 PM
Just that I'm SO sorry I called Huckabee and Hunter "wackos", and that I hopefully may be forgiven. I slipped up on my proper stripper-board-politics-debate ettiquete, please oh please forgive me.

"Eric Stoner" will hopefully forgive me, "The Sex Kitten" for my misgivings in our ever-important political discussion within Stripperweb, this great bastion of critical thinking. I am sorry I have sullied the honor and ethics of "Member Boards". :'(



ETA: Was it me or was it James Bond?! The suspense is killing me.

TheSexKitten
12-23-2007, 06:18 PM
Oh damn!! I had such a crafty response, too. :( So was it JB's "you moron" comment or my bitching about the right-wingers that incited the wrath of Mr. Stoner? If me, then the above post still stands.

Tara_SW
12-25-2007, 09:45 PM
I like Hillary and I'm voting for her to get the nomination.

I personally don't have too many issues with Hillary herself, I think much of the dislike of her by many stems from a well orchestrated media campaign by the right to distort her record. I think you hit the nail on the head

Eric Stoner
12-26-2007, 10:18 AM
Just that I'm SO sorry I called Huckabee and Hunter "wackos", and that I hopefully may be forgiven. I slipped up on my proper stripper-board-politics-debate ettiquete, please oh please forgive me.

"Eric Stoner" will hopefully forgive me, "The Sex Kitten" for my misgivings in our ever-important political discussion within Stripperweb, this great bastion of critical thinking. I am sorry I have sullied the honor and ethics of "Member Boards". :'(



ETA: Was it me or was it James Bond?! The suspense is killing me.

Afaic you can call Huckabee and Hunter anything you like. That's NOT what I was addressing. I'm just trying to encourage civil discourse among ourselves although if by some strange twist Hillary or Rudy or anyone else started posting here I would encourage and argue for the same civility. I can't stand Hillary but I'd still try to be civil.
Come to think of it, it wouldn't surprise me if Bill was a lurker on here.

stripperella1957
12-26-2007, 11:09 AM
SHE'S THE BEST WOMAN FOR THE JOB! lol. She has no control of the volume of her voice.

jester214
12-26-2007, 01:11 PM
Oh damn!! I had such a crafty response, too. :( So was it JB's "you moron" comment or my bitching about the right-wingers that incited the wrath of Mr. Stoner? If me, then the above post still stands.

Pretty sure he was talking to me and JamesBond

Eric Stoner
12-26-2007, 01:26 PM
Pretty sure he was talking to me and JamesBond

You two aren't the only name-callers on this board. And you're both better than that.

Eric Stoner
12-26-2007, 01:31 PM
... somewhat...

Huckabee and Hunter are way too radical. They want to make everyone conform to what they dictate based on their interpretation of an old book. No thanks. They and religious right wackos everywhere are a great disservice to the Republican Party.

This is definitely NOT what I was talking about.
Huckabee, Hunter, Romney, Craig and host of other Right-Wingers deserve to be called worse afaic. I called Hillary a "phony bitch" and meant every bit of it. There's nothing wrong with being colorful and even venting a bit when discussing Public Figures imho.
I'm just arguing for civil discourse among ourselves.

Jay Zeno
12-26-2007, 07:05 PM
I don't like Hilary Clinton on a personal level, and it's got nothing to do with right winging. It has to do with the way she treats people, her highly manipulative and calculating personality, and her overcontrolling ways.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for her. I doubt it, but we've been faced with the lesser of two bad choices for, oh, 30 years or so now, and 2008 will apparently not be different. So we'll see what the lesser is.

Eric Stoner
12-27-2007, 08:50 AM
I don't like Hilary Clinton on a personal level, and it's got nothing to do with right winging. It has to do with the way she treats people, her highly manipulative and calculating personality, and her overcontrolling ways.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for her. I doubt it, but we've been faced with the lesser of two bad choices for, oh, 30 years or so now, and 2008 will apparently not be different. So we'll see what the lesser is.

That's why I've been supporting Obama imperfect though he may be. He's the smartest and classiest of ALL of them and is the ONLY one (imho) who exhibits anything resembling new and original thinking.