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layka
04-12-2007, 09:36 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265062,00.html

I agree 100%, and the point is these were just WORDS. Im sure Imus started a ranch for sick kids out of guilt, where over 50% are minorites. Im sure he parts with millions each year out of guilt. He does these things because he has a good heart and cares about people.




I don't care if he started a ranch for only black children from the inner city. Maybe he has a good heart...but can you actually blame me for thinking other wise? Seriously. And where the hell is his good heart now? Would YOU say something aloud like that? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're a good person, would you say that? Probably not. Good hearted people are the Mother Teresa's, not scum like IMUS. His words/actions cancel out the good he has done in my book. Afterall, it's a contradiction. I really think his donations were part of PR work, and maintaining a lukewarm image. Hell, maybe he DOES have a good heart. Does that excuse his statement? Would you go to the judge and say:

Your honor, I'm sorry about drinking under the influence, but others have done it before me. Others have done far worse than me. I donate to M.A.D, I'm not really a drunk driver, I just made a mistake. Please forgive me of this minor offense and release me without consequence. I know, I know, I have prior offenses, but please allow me back on the roads. I will be good, I promise.


And you know what, maybe the person means it, maybe they will change, but the court doesn't rule solely off of emotion. And they also won't take the chance for the past offender to immedietly get back on the road without support. Reason being is b/c it's difficult to change. Why jeopardize others off of a sap story and crocodile tears? Give me a break. You make this situation sound SO simple. Again men tend to prolong the inevitable out of hope that the situation is a fluke. I can admire that spirit, but I for one don't think this man will change. And anyone that speaks in this manner, black, white, purple or red needs help. Not a cushy job and fat paycheck>:(

JustJayda
04-12-2007, 09:48 AM
^^^^I'm over here doing the Roger Rabbit dance!!! Excellent post!

Eric Stoner
04-12-2007, 11:12 AM
I'm not shedding any tears for Imus. He's 66 and he's been sober for years and has no excuse. In fact, he hasn't even tried to make any kind of excuse. Unlike Jesse Jackson ( who is still offering a full scholarship to Ms. Mangum ); Sharpton who has never apologized to the man he defamed nor for helping to instigate the Freddy's riot ) nor Clinton who was caught on tape agreeing Cuomo was "a mafioso" Imus has stood up to all the abuse and all the condemnations. His show has laid the groundwork for the remarks in question for years prior to this.

What I'd like to see is the same standard applied to everone. That everyone be called to account for any kind of race baiting or any kind of ethnic slur. That everyone be required to do their part to clean up public discourse and promote civility and mutual respect.

DancerNTampa
04-12-2007, 12:21 PM
has anyone seen this crazy ass BS?!

this album was released i believe in 1974....

saphire123456
04-12-2007, 01:04 PM
as a rutgers student i resent that, but hey, i heard his show was dropped

LilSweetVixen
04-12-2007, 01:09 PM
Look, I'm tired of hearing people refer to rap as their defense, if you really want to take it their there are PLENTY of rock lyrics that say the same.damn.things.


hardly. I listen to plenty of rock and can name exactly 3 rock songs that are disrespectful to women and that's a stretch. besides, that doesn't make it right.



Most people know rap songs, but if u ask them to actually repeat the lyrics back to you some don't know the chorus from the bridge.
IMUS spoke slowly, clearly, and without a catchy beat. I heard him loud and clear. He very clearly stated "Look at them Nappy Headed Hoes",and giggled after he said it as though he was so pleased with his quirky line.

Oh come on now. This is just ridiculous. You mean to tell me you think there's a difference between the vile things rap says about black women and Imus's dry comment, because rap has a catchy beat? LOL. And because rappers can't speak proper English? That just takes the cake for me. Rappers will never own up to what they do. It's wrong, there's no difference and the only reason they get away with it is because women have less leverage than other oppressed groups. Period. I'm just so over that culture.

As far as comparing being a woman and being a person of color, I have no problem with people doing that. I can say without flinching that the comments offend me more as a woman. Blacks have been disrespected for 400 years. Shoot blacks have been black for 500 years. Women have always been women and have been disrespected for eons with little recourse, especially within minority communities like black and Chicano, since the men play victim and whites are held to a higher moral standard.

DancerNTampa
04-12-2007, 01:36 PM
as a rutgers student i resent that, but hey, i heard his show was dropped



you resent what? so many posts here...kinda vague

JustJayda
04-12-2007, 01:43 PM
hardly. I listen to plenty of rock and can name exactly 3 rock songs that are disrespectful to women and that's a stretch. besides, that doesn't make it right.




I don't know what you call "plenty", but congrats on finding and listening to the vanilla stuff only, with the exception of 3 songs...

I doubt having the 1-800-KIDZ-BOP cd qualifies but whatever::)

saphire123456
04-12-2007, 01:49 PM
you resent what? so many posts here...kinda vague
no i resent him calling my team "nappy hoes"

DylanAngel
04-12-2007, 01:59 PM
I don't know what you call "plenty", but congrats on finding and listening to the vanilla stuff only, with the exception of 3 songs...

I doubt having the 1-800-KIDZ-BOP cd qualifies but whatever::)

Yup.

No offense LSW, but there are a lot of branches of rock music and not all of them are very nice.

I'm a rock chick, and listen to quite a bit of underground stuff. Just off the top of my head I can name at least 20 songs that objectify women. Just not in the same words.

And that's just cultural, the intent is still the same.

LilSweetVixen
04-12-2007, 02:02 PM
I don't know what you call "plenty", but congrats on finding and listening to the vanilla stuff only, with the exception of 3 songs...

I doubt having the 1-800-KIDZ-BOP cd qualifies but whatever::)

:slaphappy

LilSweetVixen
04-12-2007, 02:03 PM
Yup.

No offense LSW, but there are a lot of branches of rock music and not all of them are very nice.

I'm a rock chick, and listen to quite a bit of underground stuff. Just off the top of my head I can name at least 20 songs that objectify women. Just not in the same words.

And that's just cultural, the intent is still the same.

I listen to heavy metal and can scarce think of one heavy metal song with something awful to say about women.

Optimist
04-12-2007, 02:08 PM
^Whatever.

IMUS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING!!!! He's been fired! Pobrecito!!!!!!


Don Imus Fired By CBS Radio for Racist Comments, One Day After MSNBC Drops Show
Thursday, April 12, 2007

E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION
NEW YORK — CBS Corp. (CBS) said Thursday it would permanently cancel Don Imus' morning radio talk program, following racist and sexist comments made by the shock jock about a women's college basketball team.

"From the outset, I believe all of us have been deeply upset and revulsed by the statements that were made on our air about the young women who represented Rutgers University in the NCAA Women's Basketball Championship with such class, energy and talent," CBS President and Chief Executive Officer Leslie Moonves said in a statement.

CBS said the cancellation of "Imus in the Morning" is effectively immediately. Its move comes a day after NBC Universal pulled its MSNBC simulcast of the show.

"Imus in the Morning" was carried on 61 stations across the United States.

Eric Stoner
04-12-2007, 03:56 PM
^Whatever.

IMUS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING!!!! He's been fired! Pobrecito!!!!!!


Don Imus Fired By CBS Radio for Racist Comments, One Day After MSNBC Drops Show
Thursday, April 12, 2007

E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION
NEW YORK — CBS Corp. (CBS) said Thursday it would permanently cancel Don Imus' morning radio talk program, following racist and sexist comments made by the shock jock about a women's college basketball team.

"From the outset, I believe all of us have been deeply upset and revulsed by the statements that were made on our air about the young women who represented Rutgers University in the NCAA Women's Basketball Championship with such class, energy and talent," CBS President and Chief Executive Officer Leslie Moonves said in a statement.

CBS said the cancellation of "Imus in the Morning" is effectively immediately. Its move comes a day after NBC Universal pulled its MSNBC simulcast of the show.

"Imus in the Morning" was carried on 61 stations across the United States.

You reap what you sow. Imus's latest outrage was not his first. Just the latest and the worst and frankly lots of folks have lost their jobs for less. If he were my employee and said that to or about a co-worker, I would have fired him. Mistakes have consequences. Unless your name is George W. Bush, of course.

DylanAngel
04-12-2007, 04:38 PM
I listen to heavy metal and can scarce think of one heavy metal song with something awful to say about women.

How about "I Used To Love Her" by Guns N Roses?;D

maxim1729
04-12-2007, 08:22 PM
I'm still waiting for Al Sharpton to apologize to those 3 Duke lacrosse players.

Aine
04-12-2007, 08:43 PM
I'm not going to get in to this one way or another, though I have my own opinions on it all I don't care to get in to it all here, the only thing I did want to say, and you can take for what it's worth no matter how you view all of this, from Imus to rap lyrics to rock songs.... WORDS HAVE NO POWER UNLESS YOU GIVE IT TO THEM, if you don't let someones words have power over you, then they are nothing more than empty words.

layka
04-12-2007, 09:27 PM
::)
hardly. I listen to plenty of rock and can name exactly 3 rock songs that are disrespectful to women and that's a stretch. besides, that doesn't make it right.



Oh come on now. This is just ridiculous. You mean to tell me you think there's a difference between the vile things rap says about black women and Imus's dry comment, because rap has a catchy beat? LOL. And because rappers can't speak proper English? That just takes the cake for me. Rappers will never own up to what they do. It's wrong, there's no difference and the only reason they get away with it is because women have less leverage than other oppressed groups. Period. I'm just so over that culture.

As far as comparing being a woman and being a person of color, I have no problem with people doing that. I can say without flinching that the comments offend me more as a woman. Blacks have been disrespected for 400 years. Shoot blacks have been black for 500 years. Women have always been women and have been disrespected for with little recourse, especially within minority communities like black and Chicano, since the men play victim and whites are held to a higher moral standard.

I just got off of work so I'm too tired to go back and forth with you. I swear, u must WAIT until I post just so u can find something wrong with what I say::) Please read my comment and don't try to read between the limes. I said there is a difference in the social standing of rap vs Imus. Keep it real girl, Rap doesn't have a damn thing to do with the backbone and political tone of this nation. If so, than I need to learn how to flow. THAT'S WHAT I SAID!

Don't get it twisted!

DylanAngel
04-12-2007, 09:41 PM
I'm not going to get in to this one way or another, though I have my own opinions on it all I don't care to get in to it all here, the only thing I did want to say, and you can take for what it's worth no matter how you view all of this, from Imus to rap lyrics to rock songs.... WORDS HAVE NO POWER UNLESS YOU GIVE IT TO THEM, if you don't let someones words have power over you, then they are nothing more than empty words.

That would be fine if those words were only uttered by the average Joe on the street.

In this instance, it was a person in a position to influence many, many people. Shock jocks have cults that go along with everything they say. Don't believe me? Witness the recent American Idol/Howard Stern/Sanjaya scandal.

I hate to bring him into this, but Hitler was just one man and he convinced a nation to believe that it was ok to commit genocide. Not saying this is on such a grand scale, but you should get my point.

It has to start somewhere and someone has to be an example that this type of behavior; not just words, but the whole idea, will not be tolerated.

layka
04-12-2007, 09:49 PM
hardly. I listen to plenty of rock and can name exactly 3 rock songs that are disrespectful to women and that's a stretch. besides, that doesn't make it right.



I'm posting lyrics to make a point, b/c clearly you think only "big ole bad" black rappers are the only genre of music with poor taste. The Imus debate is being deflected upon with these trivial rap lyric diversions, but fuck it, u asked for it.

Kid Rock

Never thought about the other side, oh no
It was always lets go try to pull some hoes
And I pulled 'em like a tow-truck
Since I was a young buck
Guaranteed the hoes always got fucked
With a one-two and all that good shit
I never flipped or tripped or got pussy whipped
Cause I'm K-K-K-K Kid Rock motherfucker
You wanna piece of me
You're just another sucker
But oh well you don't bother me none
Cause me and your girl have lots of fun
You know the one that looks like a model
Sucks on my nuts like a baby on a milk bottle
Not cause I make her, I wouldn't make her
But cause I mack her right, she loves me all night

With a one-two and all that good shit
With a one-two I take another sip
With a one-two and I'll rock this party
With a one-two ya better ask somebody

Get down girl and read my mind
And you'll see that it's focused on your behind
You gotta lotta class and don't mind me askin
But can I go up in your fat ass
And just pump, pump, pump
What's next? check your money
It's scum and its time to jet
You bet she'll be into it more
On the bed the steps and the kitchen floor
You like the way the K-I-
Did it like I said I
Would, could, should I do it good
In your neighborhood
On your fuckin block
Cause I'm the coooool the Kid Rock
Kid Rock, Kid Kid Rock, Kid Kid Rock, Kid Rock, Kid Rock
Make it nasty

Hoes talk the same shit
Ya dress like a slob
But bitches still give a good blow-job
Up come my drawers and it's goodbyeThe Kid Rock's just got to fly Cause it's 1-9-9-0
Time to fuck hoes
But before ya goin put Jimmy in a lambskin
And we could bump all night you bet
So get set to jet and go get wet
Come on outta your girdle and slacks
And I'll shine that booty like turtle wax
With a one-two and all that good shit
With a one-two I take another sip
With a one-two and I'll rock this party
With a one-two ya better ask somebody
Bitch


Gym Class Heroes

Got chicks, all hot chicks
And you rock chicks, datin' hip hop chicks
Slim chicks, round chicks
Black, white, yellow, and brown chicks
Got chicks, all hot chicks
And you rock chicks, datin' hip hop chicks
Slim chicks, round chicks
Black, white, yellow, and brown chicks

Good grief girl, you're giving me goosebumps
Standing there in your underwear and new pumps
It's like the more time we waste and less time I get to taste you
Honestly I could easily replace you
It's not a scam girl
That's how I am girl
Peter Pan, I'm a sucka for smucka's jam girl
It's clear I'm only here for good clean fun
Shut up and kiss me like the antidotes under my tongueWhoa

We have to take our clothes off
And we have to party all night
And we have to take our clothes off
To have a good time
Oh no
We have to take our clothes off
And we have to party all night
And we have to take our clothes off
To have a good time
Oh no


Nickelback
'Cause we all just wanna be big rockstars
And live in hilltop houses driving fifteen cars
The girls come easy and the drugs come cheapWe'll all stay skinny 'cause we just won't eat
And we'll hang out in the coolest bars
In the VIP with the movie stars
Every good gold digger's
Gonna wind up there
Every Playboy bunny
With her bleach blond hair

Hey hey I wanna be a rockstar
Hey hey I wanna be a rockstar

Motley Crue, whose song ''Live Wire'' on the album ''Too Fast for Love'' includes this verse: ''I'll either break her face/ Or take down her legs/Get my ways at will/ Go for the throat/Never let loose/Goin' in for the kill

Shall I go on...... My point is sure rap has some horrible lyrics. But what rock have u been living under for u to have the impression that rock music is totally void of horrible lyrics? Girl, please. But people write lyrics out of a situation they may be going through, their state of mind, etc. That's why the Imus Vs rap debate has no ground with me. Apples and oranges.


My point was WTF does this have to do with Imus old ass?

And for every "hoe" song released rappers tend to have a softer side. It's the PUBLIC that shapes the release of certain singles. Your beef shouldn't be with the artist, but with the people who purchase the music. If more people wanted to hear about subjects other than hoes it would reflect in the industry. Supply and demand.

BalletBaby
04-12-2007, 09:59 PM
And how awesome is Snoop Dogg thinking he's empowered to judge women as hos/bitches, etc?

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1556803/20070410/snoop_dogg.jhtml

WTF!? So, "We are rappers that have these songs coming from our minds and our souls that are relevant to what we feel." if it's coming from your soul it's okay to call a women a ho/bitch? No one in the public eye has the right to utter those words, whether they are true or not.

layka
04-12-2007, 10:05 PM
If you want to check out the article


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F06E0DA1039F930A25753C1A9639482 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=3

So far, there appears to be no reputable scientific evidence to support such fears. ''A lot of people have studied rock lyrics,'' said Dr. Roger Desmond, a visiting fellow at the Yale department of psychology who specializes in children and the media, ''and they haven't been able to find any effects at all - no effects on socialization, for instance. In one study, it was found that if you ask a high-school student to tell you the story of his favorite song, he can't. What they're listening to is the beat, just like they said on 'American Bandstand.

Basically LSV, they summed up the point I was trying to make. Lyrics and controversy are two different things. The rap debate is just a media ploy to milk and prolong the Imus story foir every dime it's worth. It is also near sweeps time, so of course the media would encourage different spins on the story.

Clark
04-12-2007, 10:56 PM
Here's an excellent article from Reason Online (http://www.reason.com/news/show/119583.html) about why racism is sometimes funny and sometimes not.

Nicolina
04-12-2007, 11:03 PM
Re: the free speech issue-- Imus has the right to say whatever obnoxious, offensive things he wants to say. He does not, however, have a "right" to have advertisers place ads during his show, or to be paid for saying those things.

While I agree with GenWar that his comments did not seem to be fueled by extreme hatred, I also agree with Jayda that his comments reflect a belief that the word "ho" is synonymous with "woman"--and with "black woman" in particular. The comments were fueled by ignorance and arrogance, and probably greed--He has been paid for a long time now to say such outrageous things.

I've never listened to his show; I didn't even know he was still alive, much less still on the air. :O But from what I hear, this is hardly the first offensive thing he's said. It's interesting that the repercussions for this have been so severe.

Frankly, I'm glad. Though I'm a staunch defender of free speech, I'd rather live in a world where the majority of people aren't interested in this kind of discourse, and people like him are relegated to the fringes of society.

There was a time when the Ku Klux Klan pretty much ran the whole South--you were persona non gratis in local politics if you weren't a Klansman. Nowadays, these people are considered a part of the lunatic fringe. While I am obliged to support their right to say the heinous, disgusting, obscene things they say, I am very glad that most people have no desire to listen.

Madcap
04-13-2007, 12:10 AM
Re: the free speech issue-- Imus has the right to say whatever obnoxious, offensive things he wants to say. He does not, however, have a "right" to have advertisers place ads during his show, or to be paid for saying those things.

While I agree with GenWar that his comments did not seem to be fueled by extreme hatred, I also agree with Jayda that his comments reflect a belief that the word "ho" is synonymous with "woman"--and with "black woman" in particular. The comments were fueled by ignorance and arrogance, and probably greed--He has been paid for a long time now to say such outrageous things.

I've never listened to his show; I didn't even know he was still alive, much less still on the air. :O But from what I hear, this is hardly the first offensive thing he's said. It's interesting that the repercussions for this have been so severe.

Frankly, I'm glad. Though I'm a staunch defender of free speech, I'd rather live in a world where the majority of people aren't interested in this kind of discourse, and people like him are relegated to the fringes of society.

There was a time when the Ku Klux Klan pretty much ran the whole South--you were persona non gratis in local politics if you weren't a Klansman. Nowadays, these people are considered a part of the lunatic fringe. While I am obliged to support their right to say the heinous, disgusting, obscene things they say, I am very glad that most people have no desire to listen.

^^ Everybody read that again!

Vyanka
04-13-2007, 07:19 AM
Imus, Oompa Loompa???

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/04/13/imus.rutgers/top.imus.look.gi.jpghttp://www.infendo.com/wonka_oompa_loompa.jpg

Bella21
04-13-2007, 07:49 AM
Black comedians have been making tasteless and unfunny jokes at white peoples expense for years. Personally, I love white people, and I find these "jokes" to be mean-spirited and outright racist, yet no one holds these "comedians" accountable for their actions.

The Imus radio show is a program of the white people, by the white people and for the white people. If you were black and offended by the Imus comment, then maybe you shouldn't have been listening to his show.

How come no one else found this funny?! HAHAHAHAHAHA ;D

Personally, I think the true crime here was that he basically said that they all had bad hair. :( For that, he should be hung up by his toenails!

Okay, seriously... America was created by white men, for white men. Segregation of public schools and women's suffrage was NOT that long ago. There are STILL inequalities of those two groups TODAY (that will be eradicated at some point... hopefully). I think that the problem people are having with what that dude said was that terminology like that is NOT helping us move away from that time. Personally, I've heard those words before and I'm not that offended... I'm not familar with his show at all. But, I think that it was really stupid of him to say that (did he think of the consequences at all?). Yes, there is freedom of speech... but there's no guarantee that someone's gonna pay your ass to spew that stuff on the air. As for the argument, "Just don't listen to his show if it offends you!"... That's why he got fired. No listeners (b/c they were offended) = No show for Imus.

P.S. Is that seriously his name?!

JustJayda
04-13-2007, 08:33 AM
P.S. Is that seriously his name?!

Yep its short for, I must find out if I'm now gonna be on Sirius radio, and make even more money in the long run cuz of what I said.

DylanAngel
04-13-2007, 09:01 AM
Yep its short for, I must find out if I'm now gonna be on Sirius radio, and make even more money in the long run cuz of what I said.


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I need to tell you more often how much I freakin' love you!!!

(because of your sardonic wit, not because of Imus making more money)

Taco Goblin
04-13-2007, 05:04 PM
This is long, I apologize.


I've never listened to his show; I didn't even know he was still alive, much less still on the air. :O But from what I hear, this is hardly the first offensive thing he's said. It's interesting that the repercussions for this have been so severe.

Frankly, I'm glad. Though I'm a staunch defender of free speech, I'd rather live in a world where the majority of people aren't interested in this kind of discourse, and people like him are relegated to the fringes of society.

Umm.. if you are indeed a staunch DEFENDER of free speech, then DEFEND IT. That means accepting and allowing ALL manner of offensive speech right alongside the enlightened speech. No staunch defender of free speech should be "glad" about this whole situation.


There was a time when the Ku Klux Klan pretty much ran the whole South--you were persona non gratis in local politics if you weren't a Klansman. Nowadays, these people are considered a part of the lunatic fringe. While I am obliged to support their right to say the heinous, disgusting, obscene things they say, I am very glad that most people have no desire to listen.

And I really don't mean to pick on you specifically, but your attitude here is just so perfectly representative of what I consider a dangerous mentality. Basically what you're saying is you're a "big fan" of free speech.. but certainly, you're not a "staunch defender". If you were, you'd be as outraged by this fiasco as I am. Because you know what's going to happen? Now that they've successfully drawn blood, they're going to push for more. If allowed to, they're going to go after cleaning up the rest of radio if someone makes the least of a racial (NOTE I DIDN'T SAY RACIST) comment.. then rap music.. then the rest of music... satellite radio.. standup comedy.. eventually at some point someone will turn it into a morals issue and carry that banner against TV and cable TV.. the movies.. Maxim.. porn.. the rest of the sex industry.. and you know what? In ten years I'm going to be sitting there PISSED THE HELL OFF because I can't sit in strip bar watching nekkid women dance to a song with the lyrics "make it rain on dem ho's" because that bar will have been closed down, and that song won't have existed... and I'm going to blame all you people who so cavalierly blow this off.

For shame.

And while I'm thinking about it.. Did anyone on this discussion on either side ever hit Youtube or get a transcript of the ACTUAL conversation as it went down? From reading most of y'all's comments, I'd say No. I encourage you to at least go to Youtube and watch and listen.. there's no maliciousness.. there's no racism.. just a couple old farts trying to be funny in an abrasive fashion.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ui1jPNDWArM

The basic point was how thuggish the Rutgers girls looked (liked they could all start for the Toronto Raptors) and how cute the Tennesee girls were. Imus was trying to infer that the Tennesee girls should have been scared to beat the Rutgers girls because of how tough they looked. And for you guys stuck on the word "Ho", Imus didn't even interject that into the convo originally.. the other guy did.. he just picked it up and added nappy-headed to it.. and then further along the other guy actually used the word "jigaboo"! And I've heard absolutely NO ONE say a peep about that!! Meaning the whole world is getting outraged by the simple phrase "nappy headed ho" without knowing the context, who said what, how it was said or anything! That's scares the shit out of me.

Here's the transcript:

DON IMUS: So, I watched the basketball game last night between — a little bit of Rutgers and Tennessee, the women’s final.

SID ROSENBERG: Yeah, Tennessee won last night — seventh championship for Pat Summitt, I-Man. They beat Rutgers by 13 points.

IMUS: That’s some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos and –

BERNARD McGUIRK: Some hard-core hos.

IMUS: That’s some nappy-headed hos there. I’m gonna tell you that now, man, that’s some — woo. And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so, like — kinda like — I don’t know.

McGUIRK: A Spike Lee thing.

IMUS: Yeah.

McGUIRK: The Jigaboos vs. the Wannabes — that movie that he had.

IMUS: Yeah, it was a tough –

CHARLES McCORD: Do The Right Thing.

McGUIRK: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

IMUS: I don’t know if I’d have wanted to beat Rutgers or not, but they did, right?

ROSENBERG: It was a tough watch. The more I look at Rutgers, they look exactly like the Toronto Raptors.

DylanAngel
04-13-2007, 05:13 PM
I agree with you regarding the other guys. BUT, Imus did not have to add anything to that statement. He could have kept his mouth shut, said something to stop them from continuing on in that vein and sat back and watched them get fired later on.

But no, he chose to go along with the crowd. And because the advertisers pay big money for The Don Imus Show, he caught hell for it. They don't pay for the McGuirk Show.

Pole Lady
04-13-2007, 05:53 PM
Taco Goblin......BRAVO, BRAVO, BRAVO. ;D

Everyone please read that post one more time!
Shit does roll down hill and eventually we will all be out of jobs!! :O

Taco Goblin
04-13-2007, 05:54 PM
I agree with you regarding the other guys. BUT, Imus did not have to add anything to that statement. He could have kept his mouth shut, said something to stop them from continuing on in that vein and sat back and watched them get fired later on.

But no, he chose to go along with the crowd. And because the advertisers pay big money for The Don Imus Show, he caught hell for it. They don't pay for the McGuirk Show.

Okay, you've missed the point entirely.. I'm talking about the forest, and you're still pointing out a single tree..

You're acting as if this conversation was out of character for the show in general. It wasn't. There's a long litany of similar type comments that have come out of The Don Imus Show for YEARS. That conversation was very indicative of the general tone his show has always had. He's got listeners.. he's got ratings.. he's got sponsors. The advertisers have paid for exactly this for years. He's been simulcast on MSNBC since the first day MSNBC came on the air, 13 years ago.

If this were Regis saying nappy headed hos on his vanilla harmless show, then your statement might hold a little water.

But as I said, you missed my point entirely.. that this is bigger than one man's job and three little words.

Jenny
04-13-2007, 05:55 PM
Umm.. if you are indeed a staunch DEFENDER of free speech, then DEFEND IT. That means accepting and allowing ALL manner of offensive speech right alongside the enlightened speech. No staunch defender of free speech should be "glad" about this whole situation.

Her entire point was that it was a market decision. Is defending free speech demanding that people listen to it? Insisting that advertising sponsor speech that is not advantageous to them? Not being pleased that the general public finds bigoted commentary distasteful? What, exactly, do you think free speech IS?

Nicolina
04-13-2007, 05:56 PM
This is long, I apologize.
Umm.. if you are indeed a staunch DEFENDER of free speech, then DEFEND IT. That means accepting and allowing ALL manner of offensive speech right alongside the enlightened speech. No staunch defender of free speech should be "glad" about this whole situation.

I agree with you in the sense that I believe all manner of offensive speech should be allowed in the public sphere. That doesn't mean that I'm outraged when people who get paid by a private corporation are fired for saying things that their audience just doesn't want to hear.

When I said I was glad about it, I was just expressing my personal feelings. I fucking hate the fact that ignorant asswipes get paid for saying this kind of shit. If it makes you feel better, we do live in a free country, and we do have a right to free speech, and we do have a very healthy free market economy, and I am quite sure that Imus will find an outlet for his unfunny brand of "humor" somewhere else. I was just saying that I personally am glad that it will likely be in a less mainstream arena.



And I really don't mean to pick on you specifically, but your attitude here is just so perfectly representative of what I consider a dangerous mentality. Basically what you're saying is you're a "big fan" of free speech.. but certainly, you're not a "staunch defender". If you were, you'd be as outraged by this fiasco as I am. Because you know what's going to happen? Now that they've successfully drawn blood, they're going to push for more. If allowed to, they're going to go after cleaning up the rest of radio if someone makes the least of a racial (NOTE I DIDN'T SAY RACIST) comment.. then rap music.. then the rest of music... satellite radio.. standup comedy.. eventually at some point someone will turn it into a morals issue and carry that banner against TV and cable TV.. the movies.. Maxim.. porn.. the rest of the sex industry.. and you know what? In ten years I'm going to be sitting there PISSED THE HELL OFF because I can't sit in strip bar watching nekkid women dance to a song with the lyrics "make it rain on dem ho's" because that bar will have been closed down, and that song won't have existed... and I'm going to blame all you people who so cavalierly blow this off.

Believe me, I know where you're coming from. But frankly, I think that you misunderstood my comments.

I get pissed about "hate speech" laws, even though I find such speech vile and disgusting. I would never deny the KKK the right to assemble and spew their vitriol, even though I can't think of anything more obscene.

However, that doesn't mean that I can't be happy when their numbers dwindle, and societal attitudes change so that their views are no longer considered to have any merit by the mainstream of society. Does it?


For shame.

I know you think I'm "one of those people"--one of those wishy-washy people who thinks they believe in free speech, but actually only wants to protect some "politically correct" form of speech.

But really, I'm not. I just don't think that Imus's firing is any threat whatsoever to our First Amendment rights. Can you explain to me how it is? He hasn't been thrown in jail, or placed on some government blacklist. I'm pretty sure he'll have a job doing the same exact thing that got him in trouble in no time--just for a different private company. So really--What's the big fucking deal?

DylanAngel
04-13-2007, 05:59 PM
Okay, you've missed the point entirely.. I'm talking about the forest, and you're still pointing out a single tree..

You're acting as if this conversation was out of character for the show in general. It wasn't. There's a long litany of similar type comments that have come out of The Don Imus Show for YEARS. That conversation was very indicative of the general tone his show has always had. He's got listeners.. he's got ratings.. he's got sponsors. The advertisers have paid for exactly this for years. He's been simulcast on MSNBC since the first day MSNBC came on the air, 13 years ago.

If this were Regis saying nappy headed hos on his vanilla harmless show, then your statement might hold a little water.

But as I said, you missed my point entirely.. that this is bigger than one man's job and three little words.

Read Jenny's quote above to further illustrate my meaning. Obviously, the sponsors DON'T want it, because they answer to the general public, not just Imus listeners.

I don't have to prove a point here. They pulled out due to it. The points been made for me.

Optimist
04-13-2007, 06:59 PM
Okay, you've missed the point entirely.. I'm talking about the forest, and you're still pointing out a single tree..

You're acting as if this conversation was out of character for the show in general. It wasn't. There's a long litany of similar type comments that have come out of The Don Imus Show for YEARS. That conversation was very indicative of the general tone his show has always had.

You can't see the forest on this one. Tastes have changed and his advertisers are more aware than he is. There was a time that minstrel shows were very popular. That style was the rage for years and Hollywood stars performed in blackface. Then it fell out of favor, so much so that it's now considered very offensive. Can you see the bigger picture now?

Taco Goblin
04-13-2007, 09:01 PM
Again.. this is long.. three people basically saying the same thing.. sigh..


Her entire point was that it was a market decision. Is defending free speech demanding that people listen to it? Insisting that advertising sponsor speech that is not advantageous to them? Not being pleased that the general public finds bigoted commentary distasteful? What, exactly, do you think free speech IS?

Except, it wasn't a "market decision", it was a decision forced by a small group of supposedly outraged people. A market decision would involved Imus' ratings going down to the point where it was no longer profitable to sponsor him. No listeners to hear the advert? Then the sponsors leave. Bowing to scare tactics of boycotts is NOT a market decision. This was a show with good ratings and a big audience. Don't tell me what was advantageous just last week for the sponsors is suddenly not advantageous this week due to the word "nappy". Also don't tell me that its the general public causing this ruckus, nor that the general public's view is necessarily being told here. We're seeing the opinions of the people paraded in front of the cameras, and I'll bet none of them were part of that pool of listeners the sponsors found so advantageous to advertise in front of last week. Free speech, particularly within the bounds of comedy and art, is being able to say and express yourself HOWEVER YOU WANT, as long as you're not yelling FIRE in a crowded theater or directly trying to incite violence. Here's how it should have gone down...

1) Imus screws up
2) Some people voice an outrage
3) Imus apologizes
4) Imus does NOT get fired from CBS radio, life goes on, and whether or not people listen to him from that point on (and I'm betting his audience wouldn't have faltered) dictates whether he has a job the next time the ratings come out.

That keeps everything within the realm of a market decision and preserves free speech. The way things went down, there's an entire audience of people who had Imus taken away, not because they didn't want to hear him.. but because a small vocal group had him removed. No one was forced to listen to Imus, they could turn the channel. But there's a ton of people now forced NOT to listen to Imus. What channel can they turn to?


I agree with you in the sense that I believe all manner of offensive speech should be allowed in the public sphere. That doesn't mean that I'm outraged when people who get paid by a private corporation are fired for saying things that their audience just doesn't want to hear?

Re-read my previous post where I mention Regis. Imus was fired for saying things that people WHO WERE NOT HIS AUDIENCE don't want to hear. This wasn't his audience turning on him, this was Sharpton and Jackson and whomever they could mobilize. That's why I used Regis as an excellent example. That's the problem here!! If his audience didn't like to hear that stuff, they wouldn't have been listening to it for the past 30 years!



I know you think I'm "one of those people"--one of those wishy-washy people who thinks they believe in free speech, but actually only wants to protect some "politically correct" form of speech.

But really, I'm not. I just don't think that Imus's firing is any threat whatsoever to our First Amendment rights. Can you explain to me how it is? He hasn't been thrown in jail, or placed on some government blacklist. I'm pretty sure he'll have a job doing the same exact thing that got him in trouble in no time--just for a different private company. So really--What's the big fucking deal?

I believe I explained what the big fucking deal was pretty succinctly when I described the slippery slope in my first post. Did not you read it? One thing leading to another.. a small pebble at the top of a snowy mountain isn't a big fucking deal until it starts rolling down the hill, first into a snowball.. and then a bigger snowball.. and then a big fucking snowball that lays waste to a town at the base. That's how I picture this stuff. Notice how rap lyrics are coming under scrutiny now.. If you don't think that's a big fucking deal, well, I don't know what to tell you.


You can't see the forest on this one. Tastes have changed and his advertisers are more aware than he is. There was a time that minstrel shows were very popular. That style was the rage for years and Hollywood stars performed in blackface. Then it fell out of favor, so much so that it's now considered very offensive. Can you see the bigger picture now?

As I said, if this were true and those advertisers were so wise, he wouldn't have had any sponsors last week before the shit hit the fan. It's not so much that things these days are considered so darn offensive, it's that so many people these days are so darned eager to be offended! Because when you're offended, you can act so superior and outraged! And if you're truly lucky, you'll find an angle where you can sue as well! That's the holier than thou grail these days in America.

Notice how you say blackface "fell out of favor".. you know.. over time.. like vaudeville. Over time, people decided it wasn't entertaining.. so they didn't go anymore. That form of entertainment faded away.. over time. Was Imus granted the freedom to fall out of favor over time?

Okay, this is probably my last post on this topic, mostly because it just makes my blood boil.. and I find I'm having to repeat myself anyway, because no one really reads anything fully anymore anyway.

But I will plead with people to check out some standup comedians, who in my opinion are the pulse of the country at any given time..

Carlos Mencia... LISTEN to this guy's opinions on the races and racial remarks.

Bill Hicks... R.I.P. Bill... find some of this guy's old material.. and LISTEN to his comments on this country and freedoms. He has one of my favorite lines.. "You are FREE to do as we tell you."

George Carlin.. LISTEN to this guy's opinions on what is offensive.

Jenny
04-13-2007, 09:32 PM
Except, it wasn't a "market decision", it was a decision forced by a small group of supposedly outraged people. A market decision would involved Imus' ratings going down to the point where it was no longer profitable to sponsor him. No listeners to hear the advert? Then the sponsors leave.
That's a ridiculous oversimplication.
Sponsors can leave for whatever reason they choose - whether it is because they are personally outraged, because they are choosing not to use radio anymore, because they ANTICIPATE ratings going down or because the association becomes embarrassing. If advertisers leave the station is unhappy and try to rectify. In this case they try to rectify by canceling.


Bowing to scare tactics of boycotts is NOT a market decision. This was a show with good ratings and a big audience.
Um - yes it is. That's the point of boycotts. To force the market into certain desired ends - "we'll all stop buying your mascara until you stop testing on animals" - and Revlon is all "Oh crap - if we keep test on animals - regardless of our personal feelings on the morality of the issue - people are going to stop buying our shit. That isn't good. We'll probably lose money if we do that."


Free speech, particularly within the bounds of comedy and art, is being able to say and express yourself HOWEVER YOU WANT, as long as you're not yelling FIRE in a crowded theater or directly trying to incite violence. Here's how it should have gone down...
Yeah - but it doesn't follow either that people have to listen to it, that people have to pay him for it or that other people can't object to to what you are saying. If he was canned because the ratings went down - is his free speech infringed upon? No - because he can still say whatever he wants, the station is just not paying him to do so. Same thing here. Essentially you are arguing that the advertisers should not have anticipated the rating falling off - maybe, maybe not. But that is an internal business decision - like it is them deciding whether or not a certain course will be effective. You might not agree, but it is decision for their management and directors. You don't get to make it. The advertisers are not oppressing Imus because they don't feel that advertising with him best serves their interests (even if they are, in fact, wrong).


That keeps everything within the realm of a market decision and preserves free speech. The way things went down, there's an entire audience of people who had Imus taken away, not because they didn't want to hear him.. but because a small vocal group had him removed. No one was forced to listen to Imus, they could turn the channel. But there's a ton of people now forced NOT to listen to Imus. What channel can they turn to?
What a stupid question. What if all the advertisers simply decided that radio was a dying industry and that television was the way to go? Where would the ton of people turn then to hear Imus? Who cares? It's not their problem. The advertisers and the station manager get to decide who to pay. If people want to hear Imus that bad, he can buy his own time, set up his own show, seek out his own advertisers, make his own pitches.


I believe I explained what the big fucking deal was pretty succinctly when I described the slippery slope in my first post. Did not you read it? One thing leading to another.. a small pebble at the top of a snowy mountain isn't a big fucking deal until it starts rolling down the hill, first into a snowball.. and then a bigger snowball.. and then a big fucking snowball that lays waste to a town at the base. That's how I picture this stuff. Notice how rap lyrics are coming under scrutiny now.. If you don't think that's a big fucking deal, well, I don't know what to tell you.
Okay - I don't know how to put this more clearly. It is not a slippery slope. It is a bright freaking line. Government action -- non government action. If he were being legislated off the air in some fashion, people here would have a much different reaction.

Nicolina
04-13-2007, 09:56 PM
Except, it wasn't a "market decision", it was a decision forced by a small group of supposedly outraged people. A market decision would involved Imus' ratings going down to the point where it was no longer profitable to sponsor him. No listeners to hear the advert? Then the sponsors leave. Bowing to scare tactics of boycotts is NOT a market decision. This was a show with good ratings and a big audience. Don't tell me what was advantageous just last week for the sponsors is suddenly not advantageous this week due to the word "nappy". Also don't tell me that its the general public causing this ruckus, nor that the general public's view is necessarily being told here. We're seeing the opinions of the people paraded in front of the cameras, and I'll bet none of them were part of that pool of listeners the sponsors found so advantageous to advertise in front of last week. Free speech, particularly within the bounds of comedy and art, is being able to say and express yourself HOWEVER YOU WANT, as long as you're not yelling FIRE in a crowded theater or directly trying to incite violence.

I see your point. And I do agree that he had an audience of people who were probably not offended by his comments. Honestly, I'm not sure why this one got him in such hot water when he's been saying this kind of thing for a long time.

HOWEVER:

AMENDMENT I--

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

That is the text of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Do you see Congress making any laws that led to Imus's firing? Because I don't. Am I missing something here?????



That keeps everything within the realm of a market decision and preserves free speech. The way things went down, there's an entire audience of people who had Imus taken away, not because they didn't want to hear him.. but because a small vocal group had him removed. No one was forced to listen to Imus, they could turn the channel. But there's a ton of people now forced NOT to listen to Imus. What channel can they turn to?
Oh please. If he really has such a loyal audience (and I believe he probably does), he'll be back on some other channel within a month.

Nobody forced those advertisers to pull out of the show. They exercised their freedom to do so. Just as the "small vocal minority" you so disparage exercised their freedom to speak out about Imus's comments. You would advocate that...what? That the "small vocal minority" shut the hell up? That advertisers be forced to advertise on certain shows, whether they approve of the content or not?



I believe I explained what the big fucking deal was pretty succinctly when I described the slippery slope in my first post. Did not you read it?

Yes, I read it. Are you not aware that the "slippery slope" argument is one of the classic fallacies in debate?


Notice how rap lyrics are coming under scrutiny now.. If you don't think that's a big fucking deal, well, I don't know what to tell you.

I like hip-hop. I will continue to buy it. As long as Congress doesn't make any laws regarding explicit language in rap lyrics, artists have the freedom to say whatever they like, and I have the freedom to buy it. And people who find the lyrics offensive can choose not to buy it.

Do you understand that the First Amendment has nothing to do with public opinion about socially acceptable speech, and everything to do with making sure that no laws are passed that restrict our freedom of expression?

EXAMPLE:

Passing a law prohibiting nude dancing = First Amendment Violation.

Passing a law prohibiting "hate speech" = First Amendment Violation.

Firing Imus because some people didn't like what he said = NOT a First Amendment violation.

Get it?

Optimist
04-13-2007, 10:55 PM
As I said, if this were true and those advertisers were so wise, he wouldn't have had any sponsors last week before the shit hit the fan. It's not so much that things these days are considered so darn offensive, it's that so many people these days are so darned eager to be offended! Because when you're offended, you can act so superior and outraged! And if you're truly lucky, you'll find an angle where you can sue as well! That's the holier than thou grail these days in America.


These days??? Where have you been, my man? Blacks have been speaking out for over two hundred years. Read up! We're fighting for the right to be left alone--not superiority! And nobody's suing. Keep your stories straight.

These girls go to college and get called hos. Perhaps you don't mind your sisters being spoken about this way. That's probably the real reason you squirm and duck seeing what all these posters have pointed out. You think these women defending themselves is tantamount to them becoming superior to you. There's your dreaded slippery slope.



Notice how you say blackface "fell out of favor".. you know.. over time.. like vaudeville. Over time, people decided it wasn't entertaining.. so they didn't go anymore. That form of entertainment faded away.. over time. Was Imus granted the freedom to fall out of favor over time?

His advertisers don't care to grant him that.
But I will plead with people to check out some standup comedians, who in my opinion are the pulse of the country at any given time..

Awww, we should stand back and let the racists be abusive until they don't feel like it anymore. Is that it? We should let men demean women until they don't feel like being demeaning anymore. Does that serve you? That's the manhood and freedom you want to fight for? Pathetic.


Some comics may be the pulse but clearly he's not. I don't know why you can't except it. One of the comics you mentioned is dead. One of the comics is a fossil. The last is a basic cable sensation. Big whoop! I don't need a comic to tell me how I should view comedy or any other art form. It's subjective and changeable and the times they are a-changing. :D

Naomi12
04-14-2007, 10:35 AM
It depends on the context, usually. Sometimes it's an insult, sometimes it isn't.

Yea when used in the context that he used it, it was insulting and degrading. I mean I might say it about myself, I have very course extremely curly hair (thanks to my dominican daddy and my trini mommy I call my hair confused)
when I am having a day where I just can't do anything to it, I usually say "I HATE THIS NAPPY ASS SHIT!" but dude was just being an asshole!>:(

luke
04-14-2007, 12:06 PM
I have to agree with Nicolina. Imus being fired is not a first amendment issue. CBS and MNBC made a business decision that it was better to cut ties with Imus. Maybe his ratings didn't go down, but maybe they thought it would affect their bottom line in other ways. Perhaps they thought it would bring to much heat from the FCC. Or perhaps they thought it might affect their attempts to reach minority audiences with other programs. Or maybe they just don't want to be associated with someone making obnoxious comments. Who knows. They are within their rights to follow him. If I were running a multmedia company I would not employ such idiots.

If a stripper took to calling all men(blacks, jews, fill in the blank) idiots while doing her stage show, this would not be a first amendment issue, and the manager would be perfectly justified firing her.

Rappers have caught flak for their misogynist lyrics, and the flak often comes from blacks. Oprah has spoken out against rappers. See the Spelman college protest against Nelly:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2004-04-23-spelman-protest-rappers_x.htm

C. Delores Tucker had a big initiative against rap:
http://allhiphop.com/hiphopnews/?ID=4939

Even Sharpton has spoken out against gangsta rap:
http://www.fradical.com/Al_Sharpton_violent_rap.htm

So it is not true that people only get upset when a white person says something insulting against blacks.

Taco Goblin
04-14-2007, 03:43 PM
My absolute last remarks on this subject.. and they'll be quick.. er relatively quick..

Nicolina & Jenny: Notice I never ONCE invoked the first amendment itself, nor the government, FCC, or any laws. I know a lot of people put the concept of Freedom of Speech firmly in the possession of the government and its actions. I DO NOT. I believe freedom of speech can be threatened from other sources.. special interest groups, corporations, high-profile people with their own agendas, etc.

Jenny specifically: I've noticed this in your other encounters on other subjects since I've joined SW.. you're typically more interested in just proving yourself right rather than having an actual discourse most of the time. And fighting against your circular logic is like trying to grab a greased pig. Fun at first, but it rapidly just becomes annoying. I believe I'll stick with the fun I had, and forego getting to the annoyed part.. which would be rapidly forthcoming.

Optimist: While I'm busy attacking a mentality or a concept in general, you're too quick to try go after me personally. Knowing how much this subject ticks me off, that's a splendid way to try to get me to blow my top and maybe attack you specifically thereby looking like a jackass. Not gonna happen. So infer I'm pathetic, I don't care. Tell me I'm scared of superior women, I don't care. You don't know me, or the fact that I revere and respect women more than most any guy you're likely to meet. You pulled this in the other Imus thread, and it worked there. Not gonna happen here. So enjoy your victory! Good job! Oh, and just to remark on your wisdom concerning the comics I mentioned.. Yup.. one of them's dead. Hmm.. so are the guys who founded this country. But I guess they didn't say anything worth listening to either. One's a fossil? Hey, nice way to demean old people there. Good for you.

You know, there are *some* people in this country that feel dancing naked for money is demeaning to women. Sure hope they don't get it into their heads to seriously go after strip clubs! Naw.. that could never happen.

All this *almost* makes me wish I was an Imus fan.. but frankly I can't stand the guy. But anyway, as I said, this is my absolute final remarks in this thread. Can't take chasing my own tail any more. Have fun with your rebuttals to this one!

Jenny
04-14-2007, 04:52 PM
Nicolina & Jenny: Notice I never ONCE invoked the first amendment itself, nor the government, FCC, or any laws. I know a lot of people put the concept of Freedom of Speech firmly in the possession of the government and its actions. I DO NOT. I believe freedom of speech can be threatened from other sources.. special interest groups, corporations, high-profile people with their own agendas, etc.
Okay - however that is not a protected right. Nor is it a sensible restriction; I mean the natural corollary of allowing people to express themselves to allowing other people to express their opposition.


Jenny specifically: I've noticed this in your other encounters on other subjects since I've joined SW.. you're typically more interested in just proving yourself right rather than having an actual discourse most of the time. And fighting against your circular logic is like trying to grab a greased pig. Fun at first, but it rapidly just becomes annoying. I believe I'll stick with the fun I had, and forego getting to the annoyed part.. which would be rapidly forthcoming.
Yeah - I've heard that a lot from guys who really resent that I'm more articulate than they are. Not so much from other people though.


You know, there are *some* people in this country that feel dancing naked for money is demeaning to women. Sure hope they don't get it into their heads to seriously go after strip clubs! Naw.. that could never happen.
What's your point? Are you imagining that any of the women you are addressing want to gag people who object to strip clubs? Because I certainly don't. Yes - such people exist. And may vote as they wish to shut down strip clubs (subject, of course, to whatever constitutional issues may arise). And they are certainly free to not spend money in strip clubs. And they are further free to make it publicly known that they will not spend money on any business that associates itself with strip clubs. That is their right and privilege and I don't think anyone here is trying to force them to do otherwise simply because the continued existence of stripclubs is convenient to us.


All this *almost* makes me wish I was an Imus fan.. but frankly I can't stand the guy. But anyway, as I said, this is my absolute final remarks in this thread. Can't take chasing my own tail any more. Have fun with your rebuttals to this one!
Thank you. But you keep saying that. See you really aren't distance until you actually - without making an issue of it - just to let someone else have the last word and let it go. That is the really rough one. Until you do that all the "this is my final word" is posturing. And for the record - this is NOT my final word on this topic. I will likely respond at least one more time.

Bella21
04-14-2007, 06:42 PM
Here's how it should have gone down...

1) Imus screws up
2) Some people voice an outrage
3) Imus apologizes
4) Imus does NOT get fired from CBS radio, life goes on, and whether or not people listen to him from that point on (and I'm betting his audience wouldn't have faltered) dictates whether he has a job the next time the ratings come out.

That keeps everything within the realm of a market decision and preserves free speech.

The right of free speech does not mean that there are not consequences. Imus said something stupid. He wasn't being careful. The United States of America is made up of many, many people. When these people work with eachother, they hold power. Offended people's power = Imus doesn't have a job anymore. Are YOU offended by the outcome? Go find other people who are also offended and do something about it.

There were consequences. You brought up Carlos Mencia. Personally, I don't watch that show. It's distasteful. But, enough people watch it for him to keep his job. Rappers say "nigger" a lot in their music. Personally, I refuse to listen to it and I will only listen to the radio versions if I like that song that much. But, enough people buy the albums so they keep making them. These are both examples of people being entertained (whether I agree with them or not). Imus called some college girls "nappy-haired hoes", people did not find that entertaining. Really, was it funny? No.