View Full Version : PETA-Bullsh*t?
Pamela
04-17-2007, 02:48 PM
Oh about PETA, i have a tote that says PETA and many T's that i will let go dirt cheap. All are in great shape.
PETA SUCKS!
JustJayda
04-17-2007, 03:22 PM
The only PETA I want anything to do with, is the one wrapped around the lamb in my gyro. (pita).
Lysondra
04-17-2007, 07:28 PM
As I told you before, I do not dance with snakes.
You have written to me at Myspace and I invited you to respond to me on my forum and you declined.
If you want to discuss snake care I still invite you to go in-depth on my forum so all can learn.
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria
What?
http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87627
What I Bring To Private Dancing ...
Snakes, tarantulas, magic tricks, little people, big Momma's, broken glass and my body guard lol
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria
SnakeBabe
04-17-2007, 07:31 PM
I bring them to display at many kinds of events from television to kids parties and bachelor parties but I do not dance either with them or without.
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria
Lysondra
04-17-2007, 07:34 PM
Again.... What?
Snakes and bugs are used in various magic tricks
That's not display.
Kaylinn
04-17-2007, 07:49 PM
What I Bring To Private Dancing ...
Snakes, tarantulas, magic tricks, little people, big Momma's, broken glass and my body guard lol
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria
When she said that she forgot something. When she needs a private dancer...she brings me! She doesn't strip, she isnt a dancer. She provides the snakes or other animlals for display. Her shows involving the snakes is only a very small part of what she does.
She takes VERY good care of her animals, and is picky when it comes to what work she accepts with them. She has turned down a lot of well paying jobs if she feels it may harm her animal, or any other animal.
I have seen where she keeps her snakes. That is her tarantula in my avatar. I have never seen such well cared for, well loved animals before. Believe me, her reptiles have it good. I have seen her shows. I have worked for her in shows. I would never support something that may cause stress or harm to an animal. Did you know that she refuses to support or work with magicians who use tigers in their shows? Tiger shows aren't humane. They are forced to work hungry so they obey. She refuses to workwith magicians who use tigers in their shows. If a show stressed a snake,she would not do it.
You may have the wrong impression by what you read...but I have been there to see it. Her reptiles, as well as all her other many critters are happy, healthy, well cared for and well loved. She's not in it just for the money. She puts back a big chunk of the profits she makes into reptile rescues. It's not all profit. Not by a long shot.
Lysondra
04-17-2007, 07:54 PM
^ Cool, thanks. I was just pointing out something that didn't make sense to me. Thanks.
Kaylinn
04-17-2007, 08:01 PM
No problem:) I just hate to see a person who is doing so much good get misunderstood and take shit for it.
I'm not even a big fan of snakes..but I am a big animal lover...no matter what type of animal. She has taught me a lot abotu reptiles, and other creepy crawleys. Because of her I have handeled 12 foot snakes, put tarantulas on my face, let scorpions sit on my bare breast.....I have learned a lot. Believe me..what she does is all good, there are no selfish reasons. She has dedicated her life to reptiles, but a person still gotta live. She found a way to make a living doing what she loves.
SnakeBabe
04-17-2007, 08:10 PM
Kaylinn... :-*
thanks
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria
SnakeBabe, let me try to make this clear. I have nothing at all against what you do. I checked out your site some time ago and you are definately on top of taking great care of your herps. WHat I am saying is this. PETA as an organization is against what you do. WHen you donate money to them you have no controll of where it goes. Nor do all the members that support what you do. Far from it. PETA uses some of that money to try to abolish using animals in show. You are actually paying them to make your job illegal. Weather you like it or not thats how it works. I agree entirely in you gotta deal with some things you dont like everywhere. I just cant see supporting a group that actualy HATES what you do
evan_essence
04-17-2007, 08:53 PM
I will work to persuade from within the ranks on how they are wrongIs there a mechanism for the rank and file to vote on organization policies, similar to a political party platform? Is there a membership vote or convention that elects the organization's director? If not, I doubt working from within to accomplish substantial changes can be effective.
-Ev
Pamela
04-17-2007, 09:06 PM
PETA is against any use of animals. I find it hard to believe that PETA supports her as she says (some members do) They will not support the use of a snake on a body over glass, or in a smoke filled club or pulling tricks out of a mans pants with snakes. This is no better than other performing animals. Snakes do not like being touched, period. They tolerate us and our own scent, put them in an atmosphere where they are crowded and touched alot, they positively will stress. It simply shortens the lifespan, and stress leads to sickness which leads to many other issues.
I take pictures with my snakes, that is it. In my home. NO ONE holds my snakes...they may bite, i am not looking for a lawsuit. Lectures are bad enough, but short and quiet.
Performing (as i did while dancing for a time) is wrong with an animal who does not understand or enjoy what is happening.
I mean that is the bottom line. People do it. And use many different animals to try to get around the stress they feel. The vibrations we can't even feel, they feel insanely for one. And that means danger. They can't fight (most don't) or flee, so their heart rate and respiration goes up high.
Yea PETA would never support this. But what animal lover would. I was young and dumb when i did it. I did it for the money. I learned, i wish others would understand snakes are very sensitive to the environment, very.
But.....
Lets not turn this into a "you treat your animals wrong" thing. Any of us that own large breed snakes could hear we are all wrong for one reason or another.
This is about PETA. I simply brought up what SnakeBabe does because it is very against what PETA stands for.
Alaska
04-17-2007, 09:49 PM
*strict vegetarian*
I was utterly embarrassed when USA Today ran a front page article about a young PETA girl who was petitioning the town of Fishkill, NY to change its name!!!
Fishkill is Dutch, and kill means place in Dutch or something...wtfever lady...it's shit like that that gives us animal rights people a bad name as overbearing radical lunatics...
...and it's also society (the USA Today front page!!!) that is willing to jump at every opportunity to make us look bad, that's why it's very important to know your shit and not be preachy.
The girl didn't know that Fishkill was Dutch and now she's on the front page of the paper. Ppl are looking at that thinking that's all of us.
Dottie Rebel
04-17-2007, 11:47 PM
^^^You REALLY don't get it? Really?
Every little time you hear about "stupid ass PETA" doing some "stupid action" hundreds or thousands of other people have heard about it as well. Enough of these exposures and PETA becomes/maintains its position as a household name. This notoriety allows PETA the platform to get the word out about truly important issues.
It would be great if PETA could always, only do straight-forward campaigns which draw attention to the cruelty of animals, but unfortunately that isn't always sexy enough to get attention in this society. The front page of USA Today. Think that's easy to get? Think again. That's some really deft public relations maneuvering, my friend. Why do you think Hollywood stars wear hideously crazy things to big events? Because, if they're hideous enough, people on TV and in magazines will be saying for the next 10 years, "God, I have NO idea what possessed her to wear THAT!" Really? You don't? That's too bad.
Do you REALLY not think think that the women quoted in the article knew the origin of that name? I know for a fact that she did. We all did. I was literally at the drawing board when PETA was coming up with the Fishkill campaign. We all thought it was a fucking riot. And we thought it would get a lot of attention. And it is. And it did.
Lysondra
04-17-2007, 11:55 PM
^ So you guys did it because you thought it would be a funny way to get attention?
Man, I'm so not donating to PETA ever again.
Alaska
04-18-2007, 12:27 AM
^^^You REALLY don't get it? Really?
Every little time you hear about "stupid ass PETA" doing some "stupid action" hundreds or thousands of other people have heard about it as well. Enough of these exposures and PETA becomes/maintains its position as a household name. This notoriety allows PETA the platform to get the word out about truly important issues.
It would be great if PETA could always, only do straight-forward campaigns which draw attention to the cruelty of animals, but unfortunately that isn't always sexy enough to get attention in this society. The front page of USA Today. Think that's easy to get? Think again. That's some really deft public relations maneuvering, my friend. Why do you think Hollywood stars wear hideously crazy things to big events? Because, if they're hideous enough, people on TV and in magazines will be saying for the next 10 years, "God, I have NO idea what possessed her to wear THAT!" Really? You don't? That's too bad.
Do you REALLY not think think that the women quoted in the article knew the origin of that name? I know for a fact that she did. We all did. I was literally at the drawing board when PETA was coming up with the Fishkill campaign. We all thought it was a fucking riot. And we thought it would get a lot of attention. And it is. And it did.
Holy shit, that was an incredibly angry response.
And I never did use the expression "I don't get it."
And I mentioned I'm an animal rights activist and strict vegetarian, talk about being black and white.
Publicity is good, I didn't argue against that.
Your reply to what I said is too angry for me to even say much else--and the writing is all like propaganda style: "think USA Today front page is easy to get? Think again." Holy shit lady, who said I thought that?
I hate it how people can't have discussions about animal rights and other things without getting all fired up.
It was good publicity for PETA, horrible for vegans/vegetarians, and most ppl unfortunately need to "learn" to "accept" their daughter/cousin's/neighbor's eating habits first, before they are willing to listen to the organizations on their behalf.
How do you even expect people to respond to you and have a logical discussion or debate, you took *select* things I did and didn't say and ran with it--what's up with that, you act like you are fighting against an idiot, my eating habits/volunteer activities/reading the newspaper everyday should already tell you I'm not a numbskull dipshit and I don't need to be yelled at like that.
*sigh* I <3 internet life
Oh yah and afaik this thread is about peeps being militant....you just proved the point by harassing me and not responding to the thread...wtfever
Alaska
04-18-2007, 12:33 AM
To me, the USA Today thing was akin to this:
The title of that article is: "Vegan Parents Accused of Child Abuse"
My response to that is, if someone said they were Abe Lincoln, would they report "Abe Lincoln Accused of Child Abuse?"
The media takes every chance to be shocking, but you'd be lying if you said most of society isn't ALREADY biased against us.
Another one, from Scottsdale:
P.S. I am utterly surprised out of all the posts on this thread you find mine the most noteworthy and the most offensive. Screw that!
Dottie Rebel
04-18-2007, 12:43 AM
^ So you guys did it because you thought it would be a funny way to get attention?
Man, I'm so not donating to PETA ever again.
Journalists need an angle. PETA can't go to USA Today and say, "Hey, I've got a great story!! Fish feel pain and people shouldn't eat them!!" Oh god...film at 11!!! Let me get that scoop! However, they can say, "Hey, we've got this quirky little story..." and they'll run it. And in the process, within that article, they get to convey serious facts about animal cruelty.
They used a sensational method to get an article placed in a forum which reaches millions of people--an article that included information that would have reached NO ONE had it not been propped up a funny little angle.
I fail to see why you don't wish to support an organization that is effective enough to get a message you support covered on the front page of USA Today (and many, many other media, large and small, worldwide, on a regular basis).
Often there are "real" news stories that PETA pitches--a new study linking colon cancer to beef consumption or what have you. But an effective public relations powerhouse does not sit around with their feet up on slow news days. They figure out ways to make their issue news EVERY day. Say what you will about PETA, they've got that DOWN.
Dottie Rebel
04-18-2007, 01:00 AM
P.S. I am utterly surprised out of all the posts on this thread you find mine the most noteworthy and the most offensive. Screw that!
This thread is generally a debate over PETA's tactics, correct? I felt your post was quintessential of the "doesn't support the tactics" side, so I used it as a basis for my general response to the thread. Read the thread. My post fits.
I am sorry if my tone came across in a way that you took as confrontational, but I did not cuss at you, yell at you, or call you names. Yet you did all of these things to me.
Alaska
04-18-2007, 01:09 AM
We're all out for the same thing, this thread is about the ways (some ways) PETA chooses to put that method out, and it's important for everyone on an individual basis to represent accurately about at all times so ppl will listen. I wrote about something I saw in the paper related to PETA, wasn't attacking the organization, and have felt allied with them since I was 11, altho yes it can be extreme. So why are you turning this into MY organization vs. YOUR organization...unify not villify!! hehehe
I said the thread was about peeps being militant, didn't call you one, and if you think I have issues, oh well but your not even giving credit to the fact that we are unified and have the same views on animal rights--misdirected is what I would call you, now let's stop slinging dirty shit around and like, GET THE MSG ACROSS!
...I think I need to go be a stereotype now and smoke a bowl....
Dottie Rebel
04-18-2007, 01:14 AM
^^^I think you need to quit bogarting that bowl.
;)
aussiepunkshocker
04-18-2007, 01:16 AM
Not entirely true about the ALF. Although of course it comes down to the individual since the ALF can be and is anyone. Killing humans is not high on the list for The ALF if at all, nor is it encouraged. Destroying propertyis probably what made The ALF famous.
There are offshoot groups such as who target humans intentionally such as the Animal Rights Militia and The Justice Department.
Of course theres going to be some crossover in most animal rights groups, but I personally believe that the ALF was doing a very good job before anyone had really heard of PETA :)
(Im a long term UK ALF supporter.)
PETA membership has consistently contributed to the membership of the Animal Liberations Front. An Eco-terrorist organization that will kill human beings, and destroy property to "protect" animals.
My favorite part PETA comic books for children. Nice rope'em while they are you. Get them naive before the critical thinking starts. These are the tame ones. Watch for the Your Daddy's a murderer comics. Showing an fisherman with a crazy maniacal look gutting a fish. (which is in this set).
Alaska
04-18-2007, 01:23 AM
Interesting to hear ppl mention ALF--I remember attending a conference sort of thing in NYC awhile back and collecting as many leaflets as possible ....
One that I truly remember was the ALF newsletter....I was like 12 and hadn't really seen anything like that yet....the main article was about setting loose a mink farm and glueing locks in local fur stores, but what I remember most was that they had no address! Guess they are a pretty damn serious bunch! But I still was all like "cool!" it was great to read about stuff like that. But now that I think about it looking back, the newsletter was just a little propagandaish...like the equivalent of the FUKKK AMERIKKKA 'zines I used to collect too, only with a much better msg of course.
I mean hey if there's anything that needs to be one-sided it's animal rights...just gotta get that memo out there, in the best way possible...
aussiepunkshocker
04-18-2007, 01:43 AM
Annoninimity for obvious reasons has always been very important for the ALF.
The ALF supporters group (UK) always had an address but they were purely a supporter group and not involved with the direct action themselves so of course could not be held and were not legally responsible for anything. They were the official mouthpiece though and would make the odd statement for the media for various campaigns and put together newsletters and report direct action. The activists would send in reports of their actions annonamously.
I still have a bunch of old animal rights leaflets from the early 80s. Its sad to think that things havent really improved.
Interesting to hear ppl mention ALF--I remember attending a conference sort of thing in NYC awhile back and collecting as many leaflets as possible ....
One that I truly remember was the ALF newsletter....I was like 12 and hadn't really seen anything like that yet....the main article was about setting loose a mink farm and glueing locks in local fur stores, but what I remember most was that they had no address! Guess they are a pretty damn serious bunch! But I still was all like "cool!" it was great to read about stuff like that. But now that I think about it looking back, the newsletter was just a little propagandaish...like the equivalent of the FUKKK AMERIKKKA 'zines I used to collect too, only with a much better msg of course.
I mean hey if there's anything that needs to be one-sided it's animal rights...just gotta get that memo out there, in the best way possible...
Dottie Rebel
04-18-2007, 01:50 AM
It always puzzles me to pieces when people truly believe the ALF is willing to kill or harm human beings in order to protect animals. The ALF protects ANIMALS. Humans ARE animals. And the ALF is smart enough to realize this. Destroying one species to preserve another is against the spirit of the ALF. It doesn't work that way.
ArmySGT--in order for an action to be considered a true ALF action, all reasonable precautions must be taken not to endanger life. This is not just some bullshit they spout to cover their asses legally. This is their philosophy.
If you take issue with their use of economic damage on those who profit from the misery and exploitation of animals, then you have a right to that opinion, but don't accuse them of supporting something they clearly do not support.
aussiepunkshocker
04-18-2007, 02:07 AM
From
>>PLEASE NOTE: The North American A.L.F. Supporters Group is a completely separate organization from the A.L.F. YOU CANNOT become a member of the A.L.F., or an A.L.F. activist, by supporting the North American A.L.F.S.G.<<
I dont know too much about ALFSG but its probably easy to confuse both groups and others. Though Im not sure if anyone here has, lol
ALF guidelines:
The A.L.F. guidelines are:
TO liberate animals from places of abuse, i.e. laboratories, factory farms, fur farms, etc., and place them in good homes where they may live out their natural lives, free from suffering.
TO inflict economic damage to those who profit from the misery and exploitation of animals.
TO reveal the horror and atrocities committed against animals behind locked doors, by performing non-violent direct actions and liberations.
TO take all necessary precautions against harming any animal, human and non-human.
It always puzzles me to pieces when people truly believe the ALF is willing to kill or harm human beings in order to protect animals. The ALF protects ANIMALS. Humans ARE animals. And the ALF is smart enough to realize this. Destroying one species to preserve another is against the spirit of the ALF. It doesn't work that way.
ArmySGT--in order for an action to be considered a true ALF action, all reasonable precautions must be taken not to endanger life. This is not just some bullshit they spout to cover their asses legally. This is their philosophy.
If you take issue with their use of economic damage on those who profit from the misery and exploitation of animals, then you have a right to that opinion, but don't accuse them of supporting something they clearly do not support.
Pamela
04-18-2007, 05:25 AM
Now the ALF is good. Many call them terrorists, which sure places have been well...blown up to get in.
I am on a private forum and love what many talk about. They contact Government and try very hard to work with them shutting labs etc. down.
Also, one person says they take all these animals and just let them go. Not so, now that is a crazy remark. They have plans, they take these animals and foster or keep them.
I support them highly when they speak and let the world know that they do take action.
PETA has alot of pull at this point however. They have grown huge, and lost what they set out to do. Now it's "no pet ownersip" as Ingrid Newkirk likes to say.
I had problems with them. I like Pam Anderson just fine (at times) but she speaks for PETA alot. Then i see her in her Gicci pumps and they are not Pleather! Same with the LV bag she had in Glamour mag. I mean these are role models for PETA, so people lose the whole concept.
For me. I learned. Animal abuse starts in our towns, and can be stopped in our towns!
I do not send out money to anymore orgs. I have no clue what gas chamber is being "tweaked" with my money.
I used to talk with Corporate, Sara Chenowith (sp) she was nice. Meant well. But had rules to go by. And i don't agree with Newkirk saying Pit Bull terriers are vicious. That is WRONG!
It's been a shitty ride with them. They are huge, with very good lawyers. Anything done by PETA will slide through the cracks i am sure.
DJ Machismo
04-18-2007, 07:32 AM
If PETA would stick to merely asking for ethical treatment of animals (which is a highly subjective term in the first place) and not have extremist acts, I may actually think about it.
As they are now, PETA needs to be totally undone and then reformed with people with what I'd call better knowledge on how to effectively get ethical treatment of animals.
No eating animals is not included in that, I like eating meat of all kinds and will continue to do so for my survival.
hardkandee
04-18-2007, 08:26 AM
If PETA would stick to merely asking for ethical treatment of animals (which is a highly subjective term in the first place) and not have extremist acts, I may actually think about it.
As they are now, PETA needs to be totally undone and then reformed with people with what I'd call better knowledge on how to effectively get ethical treatment of animals.
No eating animals is not included in that, I like eating meat of all kinds and will continue to do so for my survival.
That's the whole thing, it's their tactics that get their message out. Like Dottie said, if they just went door to door telling you fish feel pain too no one would know who they are and ... tada! their message. Whether they like them or not, everyone knows who PETA is and where they stand on things.
And if you don't find that slaughtering animals is not ethical, I don't know how much you'll ever be able to support PETA, extremism or not. It's a huge part of their campaign and survival has naught to do with being carnivorous.
flickad
04-18-2007, 10:32 AM
That's the whole thing, it's their tactics that get their message out. Like Dottie said, if they just went door to door telling you fish feel pain too no one would know who they are and ... tada! their message. Whether they like them or not, everyone knows who PETA is and where they stand on things.
And if you don't find that slaughtering animals is not ethical, I don't know how much you'll ever be able to support PETA, extremism or not. It's a huge part of their campaign and survival has naught to do with being carnivorous.
It's certainly possible to survive on a vegetarian or vegan diet. It's even possible to thrive. Some people, however, don't. They get very sick and I was among that group. I became B12 deficient very quickly, got a whole bunch of little illnesses, menstrual problems and then a major illness, which was the straw that broke the camel's back. I ditched veganism for an omnivorous diet (minus red meat, which I can't even bring myself to look at), and in the first month I noticed a big improvement in my health.
I do feel guilty for the fact that I'm now essentially a financial supporter of factory farming, but I comfort myself with the fact that I only eat small amounts of animal protein anyway ;).
Pamela
04-18-2007, 11:11 AM
^^^^ Very true. I became Vegan and it's hard, i fall off the wagon at times (leather is my passion) But, the food is easy, you must (i seen a doctor) take a multi, and a prenatal vitamin, which can make many people sick to their stomache.
I love vegetables and fruits, and more! Also B shots are do-able if you work with a doctor. But it's worth it. I keep my weight down now, and feel better about my size.
I was once in the high 140's. Did not look good on me. Now i am toned but 134lbs at 5'9" which does not look skinny because i do weight lifting 3 times a week. Well before all my dental surgery.
Vegan rocks! If you can do it. My roomate is trying it now, and his blood fats are dropping ;)
ArmySGT.
04-18-2007, 11:27 AM
From the FBI
Where Oh where did my PETA donation go?
They seem like nice people that just love animals
Lets read something other than the press releases sent out by ALF themselves. Their actions and the beliefs their purport are willingly carried out by their "Cells".
evan_essence
04-18-2007, 09:19 PM
But an effective public relations powerhouse does not sit around with their feet up on slow news days. They figure out ways to make their issue news EVERY day. Say what you will about PETA, they've got that DOWN.Not if measured by actual results. You've seen the reaction here. That's what people are actually thinking as a result of what the organization has done. Their method has backfired to the point that few take them seriously anymore. I've actually gone out of my way to eat places where they were protesting because I see whatever they do as the hysterical rantings of religious zealots. Laugh all you want about clever stunts. They're successfully publicizing themselves right into complete and total dismissal by the vast majority of people. To put it in marketing terms, they've ruined their brand.
in order for an action to be considered a true ALF action, all reasonable precautions must be taken not to endanger life. This is not just some bullshit they spout to cover their asses legally. This is their philosophy.How can you firebomb something and know for sure someone isn't inside at the time, even if after hours? How can you not threaten, at the very least, firefighters' lives by such an action?
-Ev
It doesnt matter what their motives are. ALF DESTROYS property to make a point. THat makes them criminals and SCUM. I am sure at some point one of the ALF attacks has killed an innocent person. Its most likely that ALF has never and will never admit to it but their tactics are unsafe and are going to hurt/kill the innocent. Therefore I hope everyone that gives to them or supports them decides to hang out in whatever place they try to burn down next. Its cold but they are trying to get their way by doing damage. Sounds a whole lot like how little children act.
back on peta. its funny as hell to me that the head of peta is on insulin. Fucking evil hipocritical bitch
ArmySGT.
04-18-2007, 09:41 PM
Insulin is now made artificially with genetically modified (yeast or a bacterium) organism. Animal (sheep or pig) insulin isn't necessary anymore. Though this was ironic ten years ago.
aussiepunkshocker
04-18-2007, 09:55 PM
Unlikely dont you think? :)
Doesnt that mean youre thinking along the same wavelength anyway. Same argument different side really.
Therefore I hope everyone that gives to them or supports them decides to hang out in whatever place they try to burn down next. Its cold but they are trying to get their way by doing damage.
Not really. It means I HATE terrorists. Foreign and Domestic alike. Sending money to people that burn down buildings is SUPPORTING TERRORISTS! How can that not be clear? Learn a peacefull resolve. How about the fact that firefighters are at high risk of injury or death when they go to extinguish the fire some Terrorist started? When one dies or gets hurt at a fire started to liberate animals (totally idiotic technique) that the group that promoted it is the killer. So yes, they may try not to kill people but at the very very least put people at extremely high risk.
About insulin, I know it isnt from animals anymore but it was and had it not been for animal testing we would never have created it.
On to PETA and animals. I belong to a search and rescue group. (hense the name) We look for people when they go missing. One of the most likely ways to find a missing person is with search dogs. On our particular team as well as most throughout the US the dogs on our team are pets. The dogs owner trains the dog usually twice a week. These dogs absolutely love what they do. Most owners tell stories about how excited the dogs get when they get ready to go out to a training or search. Having a dog preform a search according to PETA is in humane and should not be tollerable by their guidelines. THESE DOGS SAVE HUMAN LIVES! Yet PETA says its a horrible thing. Now I challenge anyone to come on here and make a good argument as to why the dogs should not be used to find missing people. Why a human life means less than a dog not being a pet.
aussiepunkshocker
04-19-2007, 12:51 AM
Firstly whos sending money to people who burn down buildings? The actual ALF people are annonamous. They are individuals who decide to take action, see previous posts.
Secondly my point is that I seem to be saying that if someone who hurts animals dies or gets hurt by someone whos trying to free the animals, too bad its their bad karma.
You seem to be saying that if I die or get killed accidently by an ALF member, too bad and I deserve it because I support them anyway.
So Im saying its one thing to be for death or against it. Plenty of people are against violence period. IMO theres no point being selective about it. Its more a matter of whos side youre on.
I am not and cannot speak for all ALF supporters.
I hate that some people terrorize animals. If one of them gets hurt whilst others are trying to help the animals I personally am not shedding too many tears. Its nothing in comparrison to the millions of animals toutured each year. (I dont even like animals as a general rule of thumb.) I dont like human suffering of course, but if they (vivisectors) were doing to humans what they do to animals, well they would be considered worse than The Nazis in WW2. One persons terrorist is anothers freedom fighter.
Before direct action came along the previous 100 year of passive animal rights campaigning couldnt be described as being hugely successful. Thats why people decided to try and take it into their own hands.
Not really. It means I HATE terrorists. Foreign and Domestic alike. Sending money to people that burn down buildings is SUPPORTING TERRORISTS! How can that not be clear? Learn a peacefull resolve. How about the fact that firefighters are at high risk of injury or death when they go to extinguish the fire some Terrorist started? When one dies or gets hurt at a fire started to liberate animals (totally idiotic technique) that the group that promoted it is the killer. So yes, they may try not to kill people but at the very very least put people at extremely high risk.
About insulin, I know it isnt from animals anymore but it was and had it not been for animal testing we would never have created it.
On to PETA and animals. I belong to a search and rescue group. (hense the name) We look for people when they go missing. One of the most likely ways to find a missing person is with search dogs. On our particular team as well as most throughout the US the dogs on our team are pets. The dogs owner trains the dog usually twice a week. These dogs absolutely love what they do. Most owners tell stories about how excited the dogs get when they get ready to go out to a training or search. Having a dog preform a search according to PETA is in humane and should not be tollerable by their guidelines. THESE DOGS SAVE HUMAN LIVES! Yet PETA says its a horrible thing. Now I challenge anyone to come on here and make a good argument as to why the dogs should not be used to find missing people. Why a human life means less than a dog not being a pet.
Alaska
04-19-2007, 05:19 AM
Not if measured by actual results. You've seen the reaction here. That's what people are actually thinking as a result of what the organization has done. Their method has backfired to the point that few take them seriously anymore. I've actually gone out of my way to eat places where they were protesting because I see whatever they do as the hysterical rantings of religious zealots. Laugh all you want about clever stunts. They're successfully publicizing themselves right into complete and total dismissal by the vast majority of people. To put it in marketing terms, they've ruined their brand.
-Ev
Well put...
PaigeDWinter
04-19-2007, 05:50 AM
I was utterly embarrassed when USA Today ran a front page article about a young PETA girl who was petitioning the town of Fishkill, NY to change its name!!!
Fishkill is Dutch, and kill means place in Dutch or something...wtfever lady...it's shit like that that gives us animal rights people a bad name as overbearing radical lunatics...
Oh man, I used to live there.... that shtick has been going on since the '60s. Fishkill, Catskill, etc... 90% of the folks who live/lived in Fishkill KNOW what the name means, and we laugh and laugh. Kill means creek.
Roulette
04-19-2007, 06:05 AM
Oh Paige!! I love the new avatar!!(first time I've seen it anyway)
This thread both angers and intrigues me. I keep going to unsubscribe but I just can't I keep reading. As for the Fishkill and Catskill and whatnot that's just silliness. They haven't changed the name of the Redskins and that's pretty damn offensive.... And even if they don't really want to change the name they just want the publicity guess what, it's old. Get something new and not so damn dumb. I mean I guess it's funny to make yourself look dumb by having someone protest something like the name whose meaning is totally derived from various languages... but yeah dumb tactic there tiger. Yeah I totally rocked out with the name calling in this but seriously... that's just silliness.
Dottie Rebel
04-19-2007, 11:44 AM
Oh man, I used to live there.... that shtick has been going on since the '60s. Fishkill, Catskill, etc... 90% of the folks who live/lived in Fishkill KNOW what the name means, and we laugh and laugh. Kill means creek.
Yeah, as I said, everyone at PETA knows, too. It's not a secret, exactly.
Its been proven that PETA has given large amounts of money to the ALF. So YES you ARE supporting them. Dont get me wrong. I dont want violence or death. I do however think the world needs to be rid of terrorists. Supporting terrorists is being one yourself weather you realize it or not. ANY type of support of the alf is supporting VIOLENCE. Therefore you are infact a terrorist. I have nothing against trying to prevent animal abuse. However these groups go way to far.
I patiently await someone that can counter my rescue dog point. If you can not do that then you need to re evaluate what PETA and the ALF stand for (I count them as similar but not the same. This is because PETA does infact support the ALF.
Pamela
04-19-2007, 07:17 PM
Its been proven that PETA has given large amounts of money to the ALF. So YES you ARE supporting them. Dont get me wrong. I dont want violence or death. I do however think the world needs to be rid of terrorists. Supporting terrorists is being one yourself weather you realize it or not. ANY type of support of the alf is supporting VIOLENCE. Therefore you are infact a terrorist. I have nothing against trying to prevent animal abuse. However these groups go way to far.
I patiently await someone that can counter my rescue dog point. If you can not do that then you need to re evaluate what PETA and the ALF stand for (I count them as similar but not the same. This is because PETA does infact support the ALF.
Many dogs are working breeds. They are bred for this. To deny any dog that is saving a humans life and he is bred for this work and trained is sick. Dogs can be trained with love and many are!
I do like ALF very much, dah that is not correct really. Newkirk has said she supports the ALF yes, but ya see PETA wants ALF to do all the dirty work imo. PETA handing over money freely to the ALF, i never heard that. PETA does not give weapons, i.e. of destruction as far as anyone can prove to ALF, and ALF denies any money given to them as far as i know. I was a member of PETA, i still support ALF. The do actually have a site. But it only states they try to work with the Government and that they mean no harm to people.
For what that's worth...i know, i know.
ALF sells hoodies, Bolt cutters etc. Freely!
I am starting to get involved more with my own city and animal abuse. ALF i have been thinking about not supporting either actually. I am against violence. There are better ways. It just takes longer.
Again, PETA will deny just handing over money to the ALF. They know one another such. But PETA would give money to the ALF for what? That would be their question. Support? Buy what? Do what?
I ask because i am out of PETA...they suck. I really have lost touch with some ALF members too. Probably better. I enjoy walking a shelter dog when i have free time ALOT more than large Orgs. that are messed up.
;)
aussiepunkshocker
04-19-2007, 08:45 PM
Are you addressing me because I have nothing to do with PETA in the first place. Yes I support the ALF, I know what they do, you dont quite get it apparently.
>>Burn down a laboratory and nobody is injured? Claim it in the name of the ALF. Want to send razor blades to the homes of medical researchers? Fine, just make sure you label it as a Justice Department action.
For the record I have no problem with The Justice Department and ARM either - or being called a terrorist for that matter although its a bit OTT.
Your rescue dog thing is just another example of some of the idiots that get involved with animal rights. It doesnt mean EVERYONE thinks along those lines.
How can PETA give money to The ALF when no one knows who the ALF is aside from the individuals themselves. Please explain what youre talking about. Is it an animal rights prisoner or something? Details please!
Its been proven that PETA has given large amounts of money to the ALF. So YES you ARE supporting them. Dont get me wrong. I dont want violence or death. I do however think the world needs to be rid of terrorists. Supporting terrorists is being one yourself weather you realize it or not. ANY type of support of the alf is supporting VIOLENCE. Therefore you are infact a terrorist. I have nothing against trying to prevent animal abuse. However these groups go way to far.
I patiently await someone that can counter my rescue dog point. If you can not do that then you need to re evaluate what PETA and the ALF stand for (I count them as similar but not the same. This is because PETA does infact support the ALF.
Dottie Rebel
04-19-2007, 08:45 PM
Its been proven that PETA has given large amounts of money to the ALF.
Please check your facts before spreading rumor disguised as fact. PETA has donated small amounts of money ($1500 or less) toward the legal defense of individuals accused of ALF actions, as well as a $25,000 LOAN to the parents of one defendant, which was repaid in full. In the United States, defendants are innocent until proven guilty and are entitled to a good defense. Better that the government pay for their defense?
aussiepunkshocker
04-19-2007, 08:53 PM
^^^ Isnt the American ALF a passive group anyway? I know British style ALF has been adopted there too but I mean the official group as i was trying to point out in an earlier post.
Dottie Rebel
04-19-2007, 08:59 PM
I patiently await someone that can counter my rescue dog point. If you can not do that then you need to re evaluate what PETA and the ALF stand for (I count them as similar but not the same. This is because PETA does infact support the ALF.
I am anxiously awaiting a response to quite a few of my points, but it seems those most fervent in this debate are picking and choosing what they wish to tackle.
Very well...I do have a response for you. First, PETA is not against having companion animals. It is so silly to me that people believe this shit. Ingrid Newkirk has six rescued cats and I know them all by name. What PETA IS against is the breeding of new animals when there are millions of animals literally dying for a good home. Does PETA believe that all the shelter animals should just go to hell? Of course not! As long as there are unwanted animals in this world then good people should take them in and care for them. Some people have a hard time admitting to themselves that PETA could possibly have a common sense attitude about this or many other issues.
Now then, it is common knowledge that many dogs like to learn and perform tricks. They enjoy the treats and praise that they receive as awards. They like to please their humans. They like to have their minds stimulated and have something to do. They enjoy the interaction. As long as the search and rescue dogs are, themselves rescued and not bred, trained humanely, kept as companions in loving homes, kept far out of any potentially dangerous situations, and enjoy their "work," I don't see any problem with this. No different from A dog being trained to play fetch, in my opinion. Now, if dogs are being bred in spades for such purposes, kept in kennel, trained using beating and shock devices as is often uncovered in k-9 training programs, then no. That is NOT ok. Hurting one species to save another is not acceptable. Whether it be humans or non-humans on either side of that.
Dottie Rebel
04-19-2007, 09:03 PM
^^^ Isnt the American ALF a passive group anyway? I know British style ALF has been adopted there too but I mean the official group as i was trying to point out in an earlier post.
What do you mean by passive?
They DO NOT under any circumstances support the harming of any animal--human or not. Some people (not you) do not want to recognize the different between property damage and violence.