View Full Version : 20 some dead ...
ArmySGT.
04-17-2007, 01:48 PM
If I should meet them at a Military Funeral. Well I am going to need a good Lawyer and bail money. The Westboro Baptist Church are the low lifes that protest at military funerals withsigns that say thank god for IEDs.
My take and it always has been Hold the Criminal responsible not his choice of weapon. I wouldn't compare Europe to the USA in any statistical format for comparisons of violence. Records such as the US keeps are not done or categorized differently. Much record keeping just to satisfy Interpol standards is very recent in Eastern Europe. Then there is the propensity not to air dirty laundry or categorize the event as ethnic strife.
Pamela
04-17-2007, 01:57 PM
According to books about mass killers and serial killers (which are two different breeds) they are wired different. He was sick, i wish they would look at his brain, it would probably be different from a person who would not kill people for no good reason.
My thinking may be too far in the books. But i do believe this. It's proven with serial killers and brain development (many anyway)
Mass killers don't just go off. They stew for a time. He was not lucky he had it planned very well. He knew how to kill. It would seem. I know it's a far stretch for me to say this, again i belive this after reading much about serial and mass killers. He did not just grab a gun/s and decide on that day, i highly doubt. Could be done. But doubt it.
They are sick in the brain for some time before they do the killings imo.
Race....does not matter.
I pray for all those touched by this horrid mess.
Roulette
04-17-2007, 02:04 PM
I talked to one of my sociology teachers today about this and I really do think if they do an autopsy they will find that he was schizophrenic. He is the prime age for it, he is male, and according to my professor many many students in engineering schools will break around this time of year, if they are schizophrenic and have an episode it is unlikely they go back to school. Many people with schizophrenia have the beginning signs in adolescence but it is generally seen as the kid "just being a teenager" and people don't know how serious the issue is until they break (for lack of a better term). I am very curious to see how they handle this and what they do about investigating any sort of mental illness.
And yeah for those who don't know a mass killer will kill many people at once, where a serial killer will kill many people one (or two) at a time over a period of time, weeks, months, years. incase some one didn't know what Pamela was talking about above^^^^ now there is also a Spree Killer who just goes off.
britt244
04-17-2007, 02:20 PM
http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/
the blog of someone who knew the shooter.. it includes the writings he did for a class that a teacher and others called "twisted." i just read the first one and it is NOT NORMAL. it's really out there. they sound really juvenile, too, like a college student wouldn't have written them. he was an ENGLISH major...
Bella21
04-17-2007, 02:38 PM
Wasn't it his EX girlfriend that he was gunning for?
This just blows me away. I don't even know what else to say about it.
AlexxaHex
04-17-2007, 07:04 PM
Yeah I see that now and Alexxa I am sorry for snapping at you. I have a great deal of respect for the things you put out in these forums. I was just so annoyed by some of the things I was reading and angry at everything in general that I kinda missed the sarcasm. So I am sorry!!:-[
No problem. For anyone else who didn't catch it, my last post was sarcasm. Sorry for any confusion.
Melvis
04-17-2007, 07:15 PM
Chris Rock has it right re: Gun control.
"Everybody is talking about gun control. Got to control the guns.
Fuck that, I like guns.
If you've got a gun, you don't need to work out! Cause, I ain't working out. I ain't jogging.
No, I think we need some bullet control. I think every bullet should cost $5,000. $5,000 for a bullet. Know why? 'Cuz if a bullet costs $5,000, there'd be no more innocent bystanders. That'd be it. Some guy'd be shot you'd be all 'Damn, he must've done something, he's got $50,000 worth of bullets in his ass!'
And people'd think before they shot someone.
'Man I will blow your fucking head off, if I could afford it. I'm gonna get me a second job, start saving up, and you a dead man. You'd better hope I don't get no bullets on lay-away!'
And even if you get shot you wouldn't need to go to the emergency room. Whoever shot you would take their bullet back.
'I believe you got my property?'
---------------
On another note...
Man, for an English major, he is a TERRIBLE screenwriter. That said, how disturbing... /:O
Nicolina
04-17-2007, 07:40 PM
I talked to one of my sociology teachers today about this and I really do think if they do an autopsy they will find that he was schizophrenic.
You can diagnose schizophrenia during an autopsy? How? Since when? :O
LilyLove
04-17-2007, 07:50 PM
Yeah, I thought it would be detected during some kind of live brain scan, but I've never heard that you could detect it in a dead person. Maybe the prevalence of some type of chemical? Maybe the way the brain is structured? I don't know much about the physical manifestations of mental illnesses.
Nicolina
04-17-2007, 08:38 PM
^I looked it up, I was so curious. I guess there are some chemical abnormalities that can be detected post-mortem, but I'm still not sure you can postively, unambiguously diagnose schizophrenia solely by examination of brain tissue after death.
Can you????
Maybe he was schizophrenic, but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion on the little bit of information we have.
britt244
04-17-2007, 08:41 PM
i think he seems like he was just a very troubled guy. other students said they noticed it. i dont think jumping to the conclusion of schizophrenia is the best thing to do.. and while it might be possible, it kinda seems like a stretch to me.
Santos
04-17-2007, 08:47 PM
I can't watch the news any longer.
I've seen some bad shit in my lifetime, but the senseless violence that occurs these days is overwhelming.
I don't understand it . . . :(
miss marina
04-17-2007, 08:51 PM
^ Same. the news depresses me everyday so i try not to watch anymore. even though i hear about it online half of the time. this is so sad =(
Pamela
04-17-2007, 08:52 PM
I talked to one of my sociology teachers today about this and I really do think if they do an autopsy they will find that he was schizophrenic. He is the prime age for it, he is male, and according to my professor many many students in engineering schools will break around this time of year, if they are schizophrenic and have an episode it is unlikely they go back to school. Many people with schizophrenia have the beginning signs in adolescence but it is generally seen as the kid "just being a teenager" and people don't know how serious the issue is until they break (for lack of a better term). I am very curious to see how they handle this and what they do about investigating any sort of mental illness.
And yeah for those who don't know a mass killer will kill many people at once, where a serial killer will kill many people one (or two) at a time over a period of time, weeks, months, years. incase some one didn't know what Pamela was talking about above^^^^ now there is also a Spree Killer who just goes off.
Sorry hun i should have made it more clear. But i think many understood what i was trying to say.
I hate this shit. I have been reading and studying alot about mainly serial killers but mass killers get thrown in as well.
These people are mainly men, young when they start 20's or earlier, usually animals get killed first, but they have a beloved pet at home. Their brains are wired all wrong.
mollyzmoon
04-17-2007, 08:54 PM
He sounded like more of a psychopath than anything. Those plays...anger towards humanity, and a bloodlust, etc seemed to be marinating in his mind for quite a while.
And as someone who has a minor in English, many a fellow 'English Major' kinda sucks at writing. It's not ALWAYS a degree that particularly literate people gravitate towards.
Pamela
04-17-2007, 08:56 PM
^I looked it up, I was so curious. I guess there are some chemical abnormalities that can be detected post-mortem, but I'm still not sure you can postively, unambiguously diagnose schizophrenia solely by examination of brain tissue after death.
Can you????
Maybe he was schizophrenic, but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion on the little bit of information we have.
Not schizo. always. Many have had a part of the brain that is larger. Not sure how many serial killers they looked at for this. But as for a mass killing, yes there is a disease going on without a doubt. If other people notice it, and they are usually the first, he's not well in the brain...How sad for society.
GoldCoastGirl
04-17-2007, 10:56 PM
I can't watch the news any longer.
I've seen some bad shit in my lifetime, but the senseless violence that occurs these days is overwhelming.
I don't understand it . . . :(
.......................and people go on about the violence in video games!
At the video game violence is NOT REAL! What is on the news is REAL!
*sigh*
It's because of the propensity of magazines, newspapers and news in general to go with the negative because "it sells" that I don't really buy "popular" magazines, newspapers and/or watch the news frequently.
If I purchase a magazine it is more along the lines of wealth creation, property, business and/or alternative health than what is happening around the world.
He sounded like more of a psychopath than anything. Those plays...anger towards humanity, and a bloodlust, etc seemed to be marinating in his mind for quite a while.
Ah. I'm not psychopath yet I hold a bitterness towards the human race and I do not deny that I have a bloodlust like everyone human being (my darker/shadow self).... just that unlike this guy... I understand myself and thus in a way can 'control' these 'darker' aspects of myself. I guess.
sunnie
04-18-2007, 07:42 AM
I have been finding myself very distracted on campus. I can't stop looking around at all the students and thinking, man, they are so young. I have found it disturbing on a deeper level than other school shootings...not just for the sheer numbers of victims.
space_Cadet_28
04-18-2007, 07:50 AM
only seven out of 70 turned up for class, forcing lecturers to give him one-to-one tuition.
He was loony and it was well known apparently.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23393119-details/Students+lived+in+fear+of+campus+gunman/article.do
britt244
04-18-2007, 11:10 AM
UGH i just have to vent. my teacher let our class talk about this for half the class today, and it got me so frustrated.
HINDSIGHT IS 20/20. yes, they should've kept the school on lockdown. yes, the kid should've been pushed farther into counseling. but they had someone in custody, and they had no reason to believe that if he was going to strike again, it wouldn't be immediate. were they wrong? yes. but it can't be changed now. talking about what could've been done to prevent it won't change anything! and there are laws about forcing someone into counseling.. you can't hold someone forever. and if he was a smart kid, like he obviously was to be going there and get away with something like this, he could clearly have played nice and gone along with them just to have them think he was making progress.
as for the guns.. the owner of the shop where he bought them was simply doing his job. who is he to question those who come in to purchase guns? that is the LAW's job, not a gun salesman. furthermore, how many criminals purchase guns legally? if you want a gun, you can get a damn gun, no matter what laws are in place to prevent you.
sorry, i'm just really frustrated by the attitudes of my classmates towards this situation.
Pamela
04-18-2007, 11:21 AM
It's not uncommon for a copycat to come out and be stupid. This does happen at times. It's usually a few weeks to months after a mass shooting.
Just stay safe. Always play dead. My friend said he would run, that is survival, i guess i am not sure but playing dead seems to be something these guys don't look for, they look for movement, noise and shoot.
Sad. Very fuckin sad.
britt244
04-18-2007, 11:24 AM
yeah, one of the girls in the classroom played dead and she survived.
i was ranting when i wrote that and now that its out i feel better haha.. but the point was that looking at what they could've done to stop it won't help, what we need to do now is look at how to prevent it from happening again, because like pamela said, copycats will almost definately come from this.
Emily
04-18-2007, 11:25 AM
I'm not sure I would have thought to play dead if I were in that situation.
I think if you have some kind of military training, that might be instinct....but not for me.
Roulette
04-18-2007, 11:52 AM
YOu can detect it after death because of structural abnormalities
http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/images/schizophrenia_graphic_high_contrast.jpg
And I wasn't saying that I most def think he had Schizophrenia, I was just saying it could be a possiblility. But after reading those plays and some other stuff he wrote I'm not too sure. I've read some of the work written by some very Schizophrenic people, but it was later work, stuff they wrote after having multiple episodes and having been hospitalized and treated... I just dont know how I feel about it now. good lord.... lots a stuff to think about.
Oh hell...this is some crazy stuff. It's so sad...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/
Go down to the "video" links on the right and you can see portions of the video and pictures he took. Scary stuff.
BalletBaby
04-18-2007, 04:10 PM
This is so sad. All those familys are in my prayers.
And how the hell did he get a gun? Wasn't he declared mentally unstable? I thought we had laws in this country.
britt244
04-18-2007, 04:22 PM
im eating dinner and i couldnt even watch that while i was eating. i know some people think that we shouldnt think negatively towards him, he was troubled, blah blah.. but i think he's a sick fuck and i personally am sorry he did himself in, because he deserves much more than what he could ever to to himself.
ugh, this makes me so f'ing angry and disgusted.
ArmySGT.
04-18-2007, 04:32 PM
Sounds like a Courthouse fuck up. on BATFE form 4473 it specifically asks if you have ever been diagnosed as Mentally Ill. If you mark yes the sales clerk can terminate the transaction and no sale. If you mark no when in fact you have been diagnosed is a federal crime. The Detention hold and such should have appeared on a criminal record and with the instant background check he should have been denied the sale.
He could have however purchased them from a private citizen.
britt244
04-18-2007, 04:33 PM
If could however have purchased them from a private citizen.
he bought them from a store in blacksburg.. theyve interviewed the guy who sold em :-\
was he ever actually diagnosed, though?
ArmySGT.
04-18-2007, 04:44 PM
Then there was not an Entry made to the National Crime Information Computer or whatever database that Virginia uses to complete instant background checks. If it had he would have been flagged and denied sale.
snoopy
04-18-2007, 04:49 PM
i know some people think that we shouldnt think negatively towards him, he was troubled, blah blah.. screw that. unstable or not, you're responsible for yourself. i think very negatively toward the bastard.
i was very worried he killed my friend at VT (hadn't heard from her all that day). as it turns out the shit killed her friend, matt laporte. and she's got another friend that's gonna walk with a limp for the rest of his life (shot four times).
so yeah, i blame the fuckward. i ain't giving him any slack for his mental state. that's too easy of an out imo.
...and i personally am sorry he did himself in...i'm not, i just wished he skipped straight to that part before hurting anyone else.
britt244
04-18-2007, 04:51 PM
i just wished he skipped straight to that part before hurting anyone else.
well, me too, but i meant because he got off too easy. he deserves a hell of a lot more than the satisfaction of killing himself before anyone else could get to him.
Pamela
04-18-2007, 04:55 PM
I'm no doctor. But from what was going on with the girls and them not wanting his advances, he sounds like he was Very depressed. Not schizo. he never claimed to hear voices, or the women made him do it etc. But society as a whole. And he was Clinically depressed. And that is Mentally I'll.
Shit it's like the guy at school who gets bullied all the time, had enough and come in with a gun and opens fire. He felt like an outcast, and he wanted to die. But these people don't care who is in their path when they go on a killing spree they kill anyone and usually themselves.
I wish he lived to go through prison for the rest of his life. It's a selfish way to die, kill yourself. He thought only of himself at the time of planning before he killed and killed himself. PUSSY. And i don't like his sorry ass. Pathetic piece of SHIT!!!!!!!
snoopy
04-18-2007, 05:01 PM
well, me too, but i meant because he got off too easy. he deserves a hell of a lot more than the satisfaction of killing himself before anyone else could get to him.i know, i didn't mean my post confrontational-wise.
i was just adding my $0.02 in response to yours. ;)
List of the victims:
http://media.mgnetwork.com/imd/VTShooting/article18.htm
The MySpace pages I could find of the victims...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=32520437
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=37515162
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=30547321
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=14903990
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=4395679
These next two are of Emily, who was killed in the first shooting early that morning. The first is her MySpace page, the second is the tribute page her boyfriend made for her.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=19406792
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=180990141
doc-catfish
04-18-2007, 05:07 PM
This story is getting weirder by the day. :O :loco:
Kill two people at the dorm.
Make wacky video.
Go to the post office and mail it to NBC.
Go back to campus and kill thirty more people.
Someone's hamster wheel needed a little WD-40. (http://simplythebest.net/sounds/WAV/sound_effects_WAV/sound_effect_WAV_files/squeeky_1.wav)
britt244
04-18-2007, 05:35 PM
has anybody watched the video online? he compares himself to jesus!
gingerlee
04-18-2007, 07:21 PM
Sounds like a Courthouse fuck up. on BATFE form 4473 it specifically asks if you have ever been diagnosed as Mentally Ill. If you mark yes the sales clerk can terminate the transaction and no sale. If you mark no when in fact you have been diagnosed is a federal crime. The Detention hold and such should have appeared on a criminal record and with the instant background check he should have been denied the sale.
He could have however purchased them from a private citizen.
Yeah, if there was a paper trail of his craziness, they should have caught it. I know I'm not allowed to own a gun (I'm not a felon or anything like that), and that's a good thing.
shakti
04-18-2007, 08:29 PM
Sounds like a Courthouse fuck up. on BATFE form 4473 it specifically asks if you have ever been diagnosed as Mentally Ill. If you mark yes the sales clerk can terminate the transaction and no sale. If you mark no when in fact you have been diagnosed is a federal crime. The Detention hold and such should have appeared on a criminal record and with the instant background check he should have been denied the sale.
If you know you're going to kill a bunch of people then kill yourself, why on earth would you mark "Yes" on an application that asks if you're mentally ill? Why would you even care that it's a Federal crime if you lied? It's way too easy to get a gun here. The stable people may go through all the proper motions, but it's the crazies who can get guns so easily that are keeping us all terrorized.
I just don't buy the "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument. These incidents keep happening, we're shocked and horrified, we move on, it happens again only worse, we're shocked and horrified, we wonder why it happened, we move on, yet there's an even deeper undercurrent of trauma we live with every time it happens. I know we love our "rights" in this country, but what about the right to go to class knowing that it's not likely to get shot because it's not so easy for just anyone to get their hands on a gun?
If a rapist breaks into your house while you're in the shower, will you have your gun on you? What about when you're sleeping, is it loaded and waiting under your pillow? That type of crime happens fast and a criminal isn't going to wait for you to find your gun so you can have an old Western style draw. The whole gun situation sucks and it deeply saddens me. I know there's no easy way out at this point, since so many people, particularly criminals, already do have guns. It seems the only solution to this situation is for us to be fully armed at all times. Aah....."freedom". This country is becoming an increasingly disturbing place to live.
BalletBaby
04-18-2007, 08:42 PM
^^Wow, very good points shakti.
seraya
04-18-2007, 08:43 PM
was he ever actually diagnosed, though?
Yes he was actually admitted in to a psychiatric hospital. So somebody was asleep at the wheel as he was able to legally purchase a fire arm.
I have sooo much to add to this topic I'm just too brain dead right now.
britt244
04-18-2007, 08:46 PM
^^ hmm.. that's scary. he definately got them legally. he filed down the serial numbers but they still know where he bought them, and interviewed the guy who was working, like i said before. thats not good...
ArmySGT.
04-18-2007, 09:48 PM
^^ hmm.. that's scary. he definately got them legally. he filed down the serial numbers but they still know where he bought them, and interviewed the guy who was working, like i said before. thats not good...
filing off a serial number is no good anymore. Modern forensic science can view the displaced metal from the stamoing process and extrapolate the serial number. Filed off would however indicate a straw purchase. Someone buying a gun for someone not allowed to purchase one, such as a felon.
britt244
04-18-2007, 09:57 PM
the man who runs the shop remembered him coming in to buy the guns, though. he said that it was an "unremarkable purchase," but he does remember the guy. so he would've had to buy it himself...
ArmySGT.
04-18-2007, 10:17 PM
If you know you're going to kill a bunch of people then kill yourself, why on earth would you mark "Yes" on an application that asks if you're mentally ill? Why would you even care that it's a Federal crime if you lied? It's way too easy to get a gun here. The stable people may go through all the proper motions, but it's the crazies who can get guns so easily that are keeping us all terrorized.
Haha Because your stupid and crazy? It's to trip people up in a lie and charge them with something else. It's the Instant Background check, brought to us by the infinitely stupid Assault Weapons Ban, that is supposed to be the check the ceases the sale. Had the system been working properly his name would have been checked against a database of known felons, Bad Conduct Discharges, Mentally Ill, Domestic violence convicts, and wanted aliens. He would have been denied sale their and never have walked out of the store with a Gun. It's easy but, insulting to submit to a test of your truthfulness and good conduct while paying a .Gov Officialdom to rouse their lazy asses and screen you.
I just don't buy the "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument. These incidents keep happening, we're shocked and horrified, we move on, it happens again only worse, we're shocked and horrified, we wonder why it happened, we move on, yet there's an even deeper undercurrent of trauma we live with every time it happens. I know we love our "rights" in this country, but what about the right to go to class knowing that it's not likely to get shot because it's not so easy for just anyone to get their hands on a gun? Where do these incidents keep happening? Gun Free Zones. What a crock of shit. Should be labeled Unarmed and Defenseless Victim Zones. What should shock and horrify you is that this guy has been mentally Ill and a problem on campus for YEARS. I do love my Rights. Their is no Right to go to class without worrying about shot. Anymore than a Right not to slip and fall under a bus, or a Right not to be offended by anothers ART. The Bill of Rights is not Rights Granted but Rights fully explained that .gov is not allowed to tamper with. The Constitution is not a document that defines what the .gov is but, a document that explains what .gov is limited to. Anything not stated in the Constitution is Left to the States or the Individual.
If a rapist breaks into your house while you're in the shower, will you have your gun on you? Ummmm Could but it's not good for the Gun or the Ammo to get them wet. First and foremost a gun is the last line of defense, and a component of a total safety plan.
What about when you're sleeping, is it loaded and waiting under your pillow? That type of crime happens fast and a criminal isn't going to wait for you to find your gun so you can have an old Western style draw. Its on the night table in a lock box that has a four button combination. I will have it out and be calling 911 while the perp is still trying to break through the deadbolted solid core door. (Have a plan).
The whole gun situation sucks and it deeply saddens me. I know there's no easy way out at this point, since so many people, particularly criminals, already do have guns. Even in countries that are highly regulated where citizens cannot by guns, people are murdered with guns. The Mayor of Nagasaki, Japan was killed yesterday by a criminal with a gun. Great Britain and Ireland have problems with guns imported from Eastern European countres for profit. The criminal is responsible for the criminal act. Harsh punishment should follow. I advocate old fashioned public hanging.
It seems the only solution to this situation is for us to be fully armed at all times. Aah....."freedom". This country is becoming an increasingly disturbing place to live. The solution would have been if the law abiding, trained Concealed Carry Perrmit holders had been allowed to carry on Campus. Do you think his killing spree would have lasted if a Man or Woman stood up and fired back? Since the victim were disarmed by Law and helpless .gov is culpable and I believe civilly liable along with Virginia Tech for reparations to the victims.
britt244
04-18-2007, 10:19 PM
What should shock and horrify you is that this guy has been mentally Ill and a problem on campus for YEARS.
2 years ago he was accused of stalking 2 women on campus. he's definately been a problem for some time now.
ArmySGT.
04-18-2007, 10:21 PM
the man who runs the shop remembered him coming in to buy the guns, though. he said that it was an "unremarkable purchase," but he does remember the guy. so he would've had to buy it himself...
Then it is a Court fuck up because his Court Ordered stay at a Mental Hospital should have been recorded and he should have been red flagged. The Virginia State instant background check system failed. .GOV should be held civilly liable along with the Courthouse Staff from the Judge to the lowest Clerk for failure to do their Duty.
PookaShell
04-18-2007, 10:29 PM
I don't know if anyones already said this, I didn't read every post, but there was a girl that was either injured but not killed, or just was in the building but didn't get killed or something - but she was also a survivor at Columbine. Isn't that terrifying? I would never walk into a school again.
This is such a disgusting event.
britt244
04-18-2007, 10:31 PM
I don't know if anyones already said this, I didn't read every post, but there was a girl that was either injured but not killed, or just was in the building but didn't get killed or something - but she was also a survivor at Columbine. Isn't that terrifying? I would never walk into a school again.
whoaaaaa, i'd be a serious dropout. that's some scary shit.
one of the teachers that died was a holocaust survivor, too. i think someone said that already, though.
PrettyCurlieQ
04-18-2007, 10:35 PM
I don't know if anyones already said this, I didn't read every post, but there was a girl that was either injured but not killed, or just was in the building but didn't get killed or something - but she was also a survivor at Columbine. Isn't that terrifying? I would never walk into a school again.
This is such a disgusting event.
OMFG .. how the hell do you not end up in the looney bin after that?! :O Poor girl...