View Full Version : Ohio Stripcubs Soon To Close?
Melonie
11-21-2007, 04:36 AM
^^^ you're probably right ! However, I also see an unintended side effect. If lap dances now carry the same criminal penalties as HJ's or BJ's or FS, and if local cops are more or less on record as deciding not to waste resources investigating clubs, it won't be long before club customers will be expecting HJ's and BJ's and FS as well as dancers being willing to provide what the customers are looking for ! In every other city that has passed lap dance / customer contact ordinancesm you always wind up with a couple of very upscale 'show clubs' that more or less operate within the law, and a whole bunch of other clubs that flagrantly violate the law (as well as other laws).
laplover69
11-21-2007, 05:03 AM
^^^ you're probably right ! However, I also see an unintended side effect. If lap dances now carry the same criminal penalties as HJ's or BJ's or FS, and if local cops are more or less on record as deciding not to waste resources investigating clubs, it won't be long before club customers will be expecting HJ's and BJ's and FS as well as dancers being willing to provide what the customers are looking for ! In every other city that has passed lap dance / customer contact ordinancesm you always wind up with a couple of very upscale 'show clubs' that more or less operate within the law, and a whole bunch of other clubs that flagrantly violate the law (as well as other laws).
If the ironicly CONSERVATIVE CCV had their way they would want more of our TAX DOLLARS spent on enforcement of their FASCIST-THEOCRATIC ideas that wrongfully became law. Hell, they would like a state paid "Lap Dance Inspector" in every club throughout the state! LOL. ::) Makes me wonder what kind of idiot Politicians Ohio has??? Still we be interesting what the judge rules on this one!
laplover69
12-01-2007, 04:16 AM
http://www.wdtn.com/Global/story.asp?S=7433984
Melonie
12-01-2007, 07:50 AM
... tick, tick, tick ... and in the meantime, in the absence of a restraining order, the law remains in force !
laplover69
12-02-2007, 05:59 AM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071201/NEWS01/712010376/1056/COL02
Deogol
12-09-2007, 11:11 PM
It is a "scientific fact" that adult entertainment businesses can create a negative secondary impact like higher crime, McCleary testified.
Like 7-11's.
laplover69
12-10-2007, 04:43 AM
EXACTLY!! Convenient stores like 7-11 etc. have much higher documented police runs than strip clubs generally speaking. The CCV probably just hired and paid McCleary to refute the facts behind Daniel Linzs testimony which is club friendly. Hope the clubs hired COMPETENT ATTORNEYS! Still betting the judge will rule in favor of the clubs and leave it up to each community/city to decide and draft their own ordinances. A STATEwide blanket law that is UNIFORMLY ENFORCED seems impractical and a LOW PRIORITY for most Police Chiefs and possibly unconstitutional to me.
Melonie
12-10-2007, 10:48 AM
obviously whether this state law is struck down or upheld, actual enforcement in various cities will vary widely ... depending on the size of the bible thumper's 'megaphone', the personal position of local mayors / DA's, the number of 'real crimes versus the size of the local police force etc. However, the end result is still the same ... to 'criminalize' lap dances, and to eliminate any technical difference in legal penalties between giving a contact lap dance and giving a HJ or BJ !
laplover69
12-16-2007, 07:40 AM
Judge Oliver is sure taking is time deciding this one... I think a decision will be handed down before Christmas?
Melonie
12-16-2007, 01:23 PM
as I said previously, tick ... tick ... tick - all the while the new law remains in force and clubs / dancers are losing money hand over fist.
This is actually a fairly effective strategy on the part of the bible thumpers. Basically, unless the clubowners are willing to accept a defeat in this court case, a federal appeal will follow. If the clubowners win the bible thumpers will file the appeal. If the bible thumpers win the clubowners will have to file the appeal. But with every month that passes with the new law in effect, clubowners are falling farther and farther behind from a financial standpoint due to reduced club earnings. Thus the longer this drags on, the less able the clubowners will be to bankroll a top notch legal team to mount a federal appeal that might actually succeed.
laplover69
12-16-2007, 02:19 PM
as I said previously, tick ... tick ... tick - all the while the new law remains in force and clubs / dancers are losing money hand over fist.
This is actually a fairly effective strategy on the part of the bible thumpers. Basically, unless the clubowners are willing to accept a defeat in this court case, a federal appeal will follow. If the clubowners win the bible thumpers will file the appeal. If the bible thumpers win the clubowners will have to file the appeal. But with every month that passes with the new law in effect, clubowners are falling farther and farther behind from a financial standpoint due to reduced club earnings. Thus the longer this drags on, the less able the clubowners will be to bankroll a top notch legal team to mount a federal appeal that might actually succeed.
All true Melonie. My bets are the clubs will have a victory with Judge Oliver and his decision will reflect the rights of each city to draft their own ordinances. What are the rest of our readers thoughts?
Melonie
12-17-2007, 02:42 AM
^^^ my opinion is that Judge Oliver will succumb to public pressure as he did with the school vouchers case, will issue a wishy washy ruling that leaves the existing anti-strip club law in force, and will throw the issue to the Federal 6th circuit court of appeals for any real constitutional issue decision so that he doesn't have to take ALL of the political heat onto his own shoulders !
Of course, this goes right back to the point about Ohio clubowners' financial ability to fund a really effective appeal being reduced with each month that continues to pass with the Ohio anti-strip club law still in effect. Unless Judge Oliver has the guts to make an authoritative decision that this law is unconstitutional, and unless the bible thumpers are willing to accept such a decision ( NOT ), this case will wind up before the 6th Circuit Court anyhow. In the meantime, probably 4-6 MORE months will pass with the new Ohio anti-strip club law still in effect.
laplover69
01-27-2008, 06:05 AM
I have heard through several sources that the Ohio Attorney General has taken a position that is very FAVORABLE for the CLUBS, and that in his opinion the perceived "negative secondary effects" theories used by the state are IRRELEVANT and nothing but a guise used by the religious right to legislate them out of business and thus enforcement has been very rare.... Anyone care to confirm or comment on this?? Federal Judge Oliver has yet to issue his opinion...
I heard there was a bust a month or two ago in my club regarding drugs. I don't think the authorities will let up on those sorts of activities. But as far as showing nipples or giving a good lap dance goes, I'm convinced cops consider policing LD's as much of a farce and a waste of resources as the customers and dancers do. This may turn out to be a case where passive resistance by the dancers/customers and non-enforcement by the police (because they believe the law is so ridiculous) will eventually get this statute off the books.
FBR
i.breathe.in
01-27-2008, 06:40 PM
i hope so, my clubs buisness has went down 40 percent. the owner cant make up his mind on the pastie issue either. some nights we wear them some nights we dont have to its rediculous.
i hope so, my clubs buisness has went down 40 percent. the owner cant make up his mind on the pastie issue either. some nights we wear them some nights we dont have to its rediculous.
The same at my club. The veteran strippers are just saying fuck it with the pasties. It's retarded.
FBR
Melonie
01-27-2008, 09:37 PM
yes it's retarded, but it's also a matter of law. If and when a bust ever does occur, the busted dancers will be facing a criminal charge that carries equal severity and consequences to a prostitution charge. This is the REAL accomplishment of the new Ohio law, to 'criminalize' all Ohio 'strippers' (whether they are ever prosecuted or not).
i.breathe.in
01-27-2008, 09:45 PM
i just dont see it happening..... they may use it as an excuse to bust up some of the realy extras clubs that have drugs int hem but that would be about it i imagine.
laplover69
02-04-2008, 03:21 AM
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/120203113016350.xml&coll=2
Melonie
02-04-2008, 04:38 AM
^^^ well the concept of the 'smokehouse' i.e. setting up 'parties' in private suburban homes where affluent suburban guys can enjoy a smoke, a drink, nude dancers, a whole lot of contact, and also enjoy an extremely low probability of being busted or being 'discraced' in local media, certainly isn't unique to Ohio. In fact, the suburban home 'private' party scenario with the entertainment being provided by 'private dancers' and/or escorts ( or both at the same time !) has become increasingly popular in recent years as various cities or states have banned smoking in clubs or have banned contact in clubs or have created an impression that the probability of club busts has increased.
If you ever saw the film 'Eyes Wide Shut', it contains an extremely overblown and unrealistic example of the concept. In reality, it's highly unlikely that any 'secret society' is involved ... and it is equally unlikely that the 'private' party will take place in a 100 room mansion. However, several factors are shared ... among them - the need for a warrant for LE to ever get past the front door, the fact that some partygoers are likely to be well connected in terms of the local community / politics / business such that LE would be extremely reluctant to bust them, the fact that many if not all partygoers will be able to afford an extremely effective legal defense in the event of a bust etc. thus causing great embarrassment and bad publicity for local cops, politicians, judges etc. should a bust actually take place, etc.
This has become a very popular and very lucrative enterprise in areas such as Long Island NY ... where state laws and local residents / LE are somewhat 'unfriendly' to the establishment and operation of conventional strip clubs, and where the characteristics of strip clubs in adjacent cities (i.e. Queens, Bronx) aren't really conducive to Long Island customers. Coincidentally or not, the 'Eyes Wide Shut' private party was also located on Long Island hint hint.
Thus the 'private' party scenario can permanently remove a segment of customers from surrounding conventional clubs, in this case customers who are typically high spenders and who are relatively well behaved ! And given the nature of these customers, it is entirely possible that their exit from surrounding local clubs can leave those local clubs with a major decline in total dollars spent by remaining customers ... while at the same time leaving local clubs with a major increase in 'bad behavior' on the part of remaining customers.
~
laplover69
05-16-2008, 05:42 PM
http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=8317488
Melonie
05-17-2008, 10:43 AM
^^^ the lawyers get richer, the clubowners get poorer, and the new law remains in effect while the matter languishes in court !
i.breathe.in
05-17-2008, 10:55 AM
i thought the law was in limbo? whatever happened to the fact that it got throw out becuase CCV provided inaccurate facts to support their case? either way nothing has changed at any of the clubs in my area that i have seen, and there have been no crackdowns except the clubs that always have gotten busted.
Melonie
05-17-2008, 10:57 AM
^^^ as far as I can tell, the law IS in force and no stays of enforcement have been issued. Thus while local LE may not be making a big enforcement effort at this moment, they could at any time.