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Wwanderer
05-04-2007, 10:13 AM
How could kissing a customer be against the law much less considered an act of prostitution? For prostitution to occur penetration must occur. Kissing or Lap Dancing for that matter does not equate to prostitution. I can't imagine any judge that would allow a charge of prostitution to stand based solely on a kiss between a dancer and a patron. BTW prostitution should be legalized as it is a consensual act between adults which doesn't deprive anybody of life,liberty,or property thru force or fraud.

The sentence I underlined in your post quoted above is both incorrect and potentially dangerous misinformaton. Legal definitions of prostitution vary from state-to-state but are extraorginarily inclusive in some. For example, any conduct "intended to produce sexual arousal" (or words to that effect) fall under the Texas stautes...so even stage dancing could be included technically. What interpretation the courts would be willing to enforce is another matter, and I tend to agree with you that it is quite unlikely that any prosecutor would bring charges or any court be willing to hear them if nothing more than a dancer kissing a customer were involved. That said, it is always a mistake to assume that the US legal system can be relied on to produce rational or practicaly results.

-Ww

xdamage
05-04-2007, 11:01 AM
I agree with Wanderer, your definition of prostitution is incorrect.

Of interest, Sin City, supposedly the most liberal of cities, now '...prohibits exotic dancers from fondling or caressing patrons with the intent to sexually arouse...'

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Nov-10-Fri-2006/news/10734992.html

And nobody seems to clearly know what that means for lap dances. Oh well, nobody ever said laws are always clear and understandable by the common person. Still the OPs question is about kissing on the lips. It's probably a good idea to assume that contact involving exchange of body fluids, even just a little lip to lip wetness, will almost always found to be illegal (at least in the U.S.A.). I'm not a lawyer, but I really don't see any thought process by which a legislator would explicitly allow exchange of body fluids in a SC, and I can imagine several that would lead to laws that explicitly prohibit it.


p.s., Wandered, I also agree with your thoughts regarding the other comments.

Chicagoeditor
05-04-2007, 11:21 AM
Bit off topic, but the last time I made out with a complete stranger, I returned home from a business trip with a case of strep throat. Ugh.

Wwanderer
05-04-2007, 11:32 AM
I agree with Wanderer, ...

p.s., Wandered, I also agree ...

I hope that you will also agree to put both of my "w's" into "Wwanderer" or, probably easier, just call me "Ww". I don't want to risk being confused with W! Thanks.

-Ww

britt244
05-04-2007, 11:36 AM
A moist kiss on the lips is an icebreaker if You think about it.

and yet disgusting at the same time.

SportsWriter2
05-04-2007, 12:17 PM
Bit off topic, but the last time I made out with a complete stranger, I returned home from a business trip with a case of strep throat. Ugh.
Put a Z-pac in your travel case. Good antibiotic for strep and two common curable STDs. It's all about risk management. :)

Mastridonicus
05-04-2007, 12:21 PM
All I know is, via a mirror, I look GREAT making out with myself.

*Wraps arm in private booth and shakes*

liberator
05-04-2007, 01:30 PM
I'm know that in Georgia a prosecuter tried to charge dancers who performed lap dances with the charge of masturbation for hire. All charges were dismissed as it was ruled lap dancing did not equate to masturbation for hire.

liberator
05-04-2007, 04:49 PM
It is true Georgia law will not apply in Australia. My friend owned the club in Georgia. I helped him get liquor license. The nuts on the Sheriff Dept raided the club and made the arrests,but he prevailed in Court. I often go to hearings and speak in favor of clubs featuring adult entertainment. I destroy the negative secondary effect nonsense that governments use to try and legislate against clubs. We knocked down a Fulton Ban on Nudity in Bars in the case of Flanigans Ent V Fulton County.

jaizaine
05-04-2007, 06:13 PM
How could kissing a customer be against the law much less considered an act of prostitution? For prostitution to occur penetration must occur. Kissing or Lap Dancing for that matter does not equate to prostitution. I can't imagine any judge that would allow a charge of prostitution to stand based solely on a kiss between a dancer and a patron. BTW prostitution should be legalized as it is a consensual act between adults which doesn't deprive anybody of life,liberty,or property thru force or fraud.

Prostitution does not have to include penetration in Melbourne Australia. I dont know about in the US. But certainly here I am well read on the Prostitution Control Act and prostitution includes several activities that are no where near penetration including performing sex acts which include touching another persons genitals in front of an audience. It also includes masturbating another person whether or not they are clothed or not clothed so grinding during a lap dance WOULD meet this definition.

So while kissing per se might not meet the definition of prostitution in melbourne it would be very borderline behaviour and could be considered solicitation (as can the giving of a phone number to a customer).
It is certainly against the club rules.

BTW prostitution IS legal in Australia and that is why our strip clubs are CLEAN because men want sex can go and pay for it quite within the law for a much cheaper price than getting lapdances all night in the hope of some action.

jaizaine
05-04-2007, 06:35 PM
I have to add that sorry if my above post sounded really bitchy, I guess because of my legal training I have come to be annoyed when people make assertions without authority to back it up. Nothing personal. :-[

xdamage
05-04-2007, 06:42 PM
I dont know about in the US.

We definitely don't have girls walking around freely in the U.S. offering to jerk guys off (no penetration of any body part required) for $$s cause they'd be busted for prostitution. It doesn't require a legal degree to observe this fact in the U.S. either. I have no idea what liberator is thinking, but the penetration=prostitution belief is, afaik, just not consistent with the observable facts.

jaizaine
05-04-2007, 06:47 PM
^^
Oh maybe I should elaborate. Street prostitution is NOT legal here. It is legal in licensed brothels are they are heavily regulated by legislation requiring them for instance to have monthly health checks, not to serve alcohol on the premises and im sure plenty of other things - I fortunately have not had any experience in this area LOL.

But the brothels are everywhere. There is one right around the corner from my club for instance.

Wwanderer
05-04-2007, 06:48 PM
BTW prostitution IS legal in Australia and that is why our strip clubs are CLEAN because men want sex can go and pay for it quite within the law for a much cheaper price than getting lapdances all night in the hope of some action.

And it makes for a really wonderful commercial sex scenes, one of my favorites in the world (to the extent I have seen it...which is a fair extent). Melbourne has some truly wonderful brothels. At least one place, Top of the Town, is very close (easy walking distance) to a lot of the SCs too. Very civilized.

-Ww

PS - I was typing my post when yours, directly above, appeared, jaizaine.

jaizaine
05-04-2007, 06:51 PM
HAHA top of the town is the one i was referring to actually!

I work at one of the King Street clubs.

In your opinion since you live in the US and you have visited Melbourne, do you think that the US dancers would be better off if they legalised brothels and do you think this would help decrease the amount of extras going on in clubs?

Wwanderer
05-04-2007, 07:01 PM
HAHA top of the town is the one i was referring to actually!

I work at one of the King Street clubs.

That is a pretty odd/funny coincidence that we were both posting about TotT at the same moment but on different sides of the world! (I am on the US East Coast and am assuming that you are in Melbourne at the moment.)


In your opinion since you live in the US and you have visited Melbourne, do you think that the US dancers would be better off if they legalised brothels and do you think this would help decrease the amount of extras going on in clubs?

I would **guess** that it would reduce the pressure for extras but would also reduce the amount of money guys spend in SCs because they would spend much of it in legal brothels instead. I say "**guess**" because stuff like this, human behavior, is so complicated and there are so many factors in play, so really I can only speak for my own reaction to the situation with any certainty. In Melbourne (where I've spent maybe 2 months or so over the past 10-12 years), I tend to go to a SC during the early part of the evening to get "warmed up", so to speak, and to enjoy their party atmosphere, then I move on to a brothel for the main event, as it were. And, of course, I spend more money, considerably more, in the latter typically.

I have been in King Street SCs, quite possibly the one where you work, and then walked over to TotT more than once in the process of following this "game plan".

-Ww

jaizaine
05-04-2007, 07:03 PM
yeh im in melbourne.
i work at centrefoldlounge, its relatively new club so it miight not have been there depending on when u visited.

Wwanderer
05-04-2007, 07:07 PM
I was last in Melbourne about 18 months ago, but I don't think I have been in a King Street SC since 1999, or maybe it was 2002. I don't recall a Centerfold Lounge, but that doesn't mean anything with my poor memory.

-Ww

Wwanderer
05-04-2007, 07:14 PM
Prostitution does not have to include penetration in Melbourne Australia.

I'd guess that such a narrow definition would be very rare...a sort of Bill Clinton definition of sex that doesn't count BJs and many other activities. Anywhere using a penetration-only definition could have legal "specialty shops" offerring oral sex only. (Actually, such places are common in Japan, as are places specializing in an almost endless variety of other sexual activities, but I don't think that legalities are the reason. E.g., if you want to spank a woman dressed in a very scanty version of a "meter maid" uniform, there is, or was, a place in Tokyo that offerred that, and only that, service.)

-Ww

Mastridonicus
05-04-2007, 08:51 PM
*still making out with himself in the champagne room*

*tips the bouncer to look the other way*

*deep french kisses self*

mmmmm