View Full Version : customers grinding back
mr_punk
06-09-2007, 06:10 PM
I'm not going to completely freak out if someone does it to me, I just ask them politely, "Could you please sit still and not do that?" and if they continue, I'll tell them, "Would you fucking stop?! I told you not to do that, if you continue to thrust your pelvis at me I'm walking out and you don't get a refund." I'm not going to squeal and say it's gross, I'll give them two warnings and ask them to respect my boundaries, and if they keep doing it then I'll walk out of the dance. I don't think I'm being unreasonable with that.i don't think it's unreasonable to give one warning. still, that's an un-princess like response. a lot of girls around here act as if they've been scalded with hot water, even if a customer does something just once. which is ironic considering it's the sex industry and not a bottle cap collecting club.
I'm curious, mr. p, do you agree with the idea that it's poor behaviour to continue to thrust your groin into or touch a girl who has repeatedly asked you not to?well, i don't go to sc to waste my precious time fighting with strippers. BTW, that's a yes.
mr_punk
06-09-2007, 06:31 PM
Like I said, most of us have grown up with feminism from toddler age in the USA; hardly new or news for most of us. Still, I can't help but think that stripping attracts a fair share of man-haters, or breeds them, I'm not sure which comes first, the chicken or the egg, not that it matters any in the end.i wish i could sound as confident about my fellow customers, but i can't honestly say that sc aren't patriarchal. the business is almost completely male dominated. they hire women based on some arbitrary male ideal of beauty than any other qualification. furthermore, they may tell them how to look, how to act, how much they should weigh and how to dress all the way down to their platform heels (which makes their asses stick out) in order to meet the male expectations of their customers of how a sex object should behave and look.
on the flipside, the business is almost completely patronized by men and if they're like me. upon meeting a stripper, they probably first rake their eyes over her body as if she were a prized cow at a 4-H contest. if they see something they like. they may say, "nice tits" or "great ass". if they see something they don't like. they may say, "hey, is that a big zit on your ass?". all things considered, i can see how sc may encourage bad behavior among customers or animosity among strippers. don't get me wrong, i'm not saying sc are a bad thing. i'm just saying the idea has some basis and isn't some tinfoil hat theory.
Katrine
06-09-2007, 07:11 PM
X,
There is no way to prove the percentage of men who don't listen in OZ vs. US, its a very subjective title as it is.
Why, oh WHY, must you always feel that you need to have the last word about everything?
xdamage
06-09-2007, 07:16 PM
i wish i could sound as confident about my fellow customers, but i can't honestly say that sc aren't patriarchal. the business is almost completely male dominated.
It is, but that's a different (though I suppose relevant) discussion. As I've said many times, men and women are not identical. They have evolved very differently, and while they have much in common, they also have quite a bit not in common (and no, I'm not talking about the least of those differences, the penis/vagina).
We've all heard prostitution referred to as the oldest profession in history. It would seem that pre or post feminism, it doesn't matter, we overwhelmingly see women attracted to the role of sex worker, men to the position of customer. It happens over and over in different cultures, through history, and I'm fairly convinced reflects fundamental differences in our human nature.
Put another way, focusing on the "patriarchy" is an unbalanced view. The "matriarchy" exists, and has participated in history all along, and it's six of one, half a dozen of the other that women willingly and eagerly choose the sex-object role vs seeing it as pushed on them by the patriarchy (for benefits of course, money, power, a husband, whatever). We can see even in free societies, against tremendous social pressure, women are still attracted to the sex worker roles in large numbers, far more so then men.
I see it often on SW, women that are intelligent, healthy, attractive, all kinds of options, even the types like J who far more negative to say about customers and men then positive, yet they seem to be drawn like magnets to the sex worker positions. Society isn't encouraging them, in fact society frowns on it. Their parents aren't encouraging them, many hide it from their parents. Their S.O.s aren't encouraging them, many SOs cant handle it, but it lures them, the power, sexuality, flexible schedules, little responsibility, party time, a fair trade for money.
The point is women play a far greater role in the shaping of history, and setting the standards of beauty then the modern radical feminists like to believe. Again, it's more fun to see oneself as victim then it is to see oneself as being responsible for contributing. But blaiming stripper behavior on the patriarchy is lopsided.
Women also have the same opportunities as men to start their own SCs and run them however they like; men aren't stopping them, but as to whether or not women are attracted to start their own SC businesses, I have no idea.
all things considered, i can see how sc may encourage bad behavior among customers or animosity among strippers.
Sure, it's an unnatural, artificial environment. My only real issue is the naive strippers who don't understand human nature well, and are shocked by so much of what happens in the club. They don't see how their own choice to participate in this twisted environment contributes to the behavior.
Also many people view stripper behavior as bad in and of itself. Spending one's day selling sexual stimulation, SS hustling customers, use of drugs or playing on guys who are drunken, etc.
Basically the point is women want equality. That's good, but they also have to take responsibility now too. If the SCs breed bad behavior, or if it leaves them feeling emotionally unwell, or hating half the worlds population, they do have other options, and a responsibility to choose like adults. They are adults in our society who contribute to it as well as the patrons. But really, this isn't the way most humans really work. People are mostly interested in getting their share, not what is good for society. Good pay is the motivator. Even many die-hard radical feminists really don't care about issues like objectification, no matter how good it may make them feel to see themselves as a victim of it, they will glady contribute if they are profiting.
xdamage
06-09-2007, 07:19 PM
X,
There is no way to prove the percentage of men who don't listen in OZ vs. US, its a very subjective title as it is.
Sure, but we are talking about subjective experiences here. It's not critical that we be objective in this context. Still, Darcy's saying only about 30% of the customers stop. Feels kind of low for a society where woman's rights are emphasized.
Why, oh WHY, must you always feel that you need to have the last word about everything?
I was participating in this conversation first. You jumped in, and basically said BS. You really can't expect to do that and not get a response back.
Darcy Foxx
06-09-2007, 11:25 PM
It may depend on where you live and work. The notion that women have equal rights and that men should respect them is fairly well instilled in men in the USA and has been for several decades, although you can find pockets and areas where this is not stressed enough. I'm assuming Canada is also fairly modern in this regard. I really don't know about Australia, never been there, and I have no idea where the country is in general with notions that we take almost for granted in the USA. Of course there are always exceptions, and unfortunately plenty of haters (both ways sadly, man-haters and women-haters remain common), but I believe the majority in the USA in the past 4 decades grew up with (and hopefully learned) the idea that women are equal in our country, and their bodies and rights are protected and to be respected the same as men.
Oh, no, that notion is very firmly believed in by the general Australian public.
As you and mr. p like to so frequently point out, the girls on SW do NOT represent the typical stripper. On the flipside, I don't believe you guys on SCJ represent the typical customer.
In my post I said the majority of guys who grind at me or try to touch, will try repeatedly. However, I didn't mention that the majority of customers I dance for over all are generally pretty well behaved. Most people know that my club is a non-touching club, and before the dance starts I always tell them, "Just letting you know, that there's no touching, so just keep your hands to the sides for me, thanks", and most of the guys I dance for adhere to the rules I set down. The ones that don't, and try to touch me once... those are the ones that generally keep trying til I have to cut the dance.
You get the occasional guy who tries once and then stops once you ask them to, but for the most part, it's an 'all or nothing' thing. They either respect your rules from the start and keep their hands to themselves, or they keep on skeezing their hands towards your thighs no matter how many times you say "No!" and slap their hands away.
i don't think it's unreasonable to give one warning. still, that's an un-princess like response. a lot of girls around here act as if they've been scalded with hot water, even if a customer does something just once.
Yeah, I'm not quite like that. I'm just extremely princessy in the sense that I keep my dancing very tame... minimal grinding, I don't let the customers lay a finger on me, etc.
xdamage
06-10-2007, 05:05 AM
As you and mr. p like to so frequently point out, the girls on SW do NOT represent the typical stripper. On the flipside, I don't believe you guys on SCJ represent the typical customer.
I'd have to agree with that.
And hey, if you had a customer on the blue side who was saying that it's cool to violate a strippers boundaries after she says no, I'm quite sure the rest of blue would jump down his throat for being retarded.
In my post I said the majority of guys who grind at me or try to touch, will try repeatedly. However, I didn't mention that the majority of customers I dance for over all are generally pretty well behaved.
Okay, well that clarifies the picture some. And yea, I understand there are guys who just don't get it, no matter what you tell them. But when I read your last post I couldn't tell if you meant that only about 30% of your customers followed the rules (that seemed terribly low). The way you have explained it now puts that in perspective - thanks.
Katrine
06-10-2007, 11:44 AM
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
X, WTF are you doing trying to put words into Darcy's mouth!?! THAT is what is pissing me off. If her experience tells her that only 30% listen, who the fuck are you to tell her otherwise because of your Malthusian mindset? Hegel is so 100 years ago. I digress once again.
Can you for a moment step away from your own ego and agree that perhaps Darcy may be correct? Considering she is dealing with her own business in her own country day in and day out. How many stripclub customers do you deal with daily? As a matter of fact, you both agreed that SCJ customers aren't typical. So you aren't hearing about a typical cross-section here. PLUS, PLUS, PLUS...you love to brag about how you go to clubs once or twice a year. Are you at the club to analyze male behavior, or are you getting some titties in your face?
Point it, men in "polite" company can change into monsters with some booze and boobies waggled around them. Seriously, we have seen it, Darcy, Jenny, and I. How can you tell professional strippers with years of experience that we don't know what we are talking about and that if being harrassed makes us uncomfortable, get the hell out.
And she lives in Australia, not Quatar. Australia is a westernized country. As a matter of fact, most cultural experts would state that Australian gender relations and USA gender relations are some of the most parallel in the world. Meaning. Americans and Australians are much culturally closer than either is with Europeans. I'm not just guessing here, read up on it.
Yeah, I did jump in on this argument. I am fucking sick and tired of taking yourself so seriously. You can say and do what you want, this is blue. But understand that you've crossed the line, and I do consider you a nice person.
mr_punk
06-10-2007, 01:13 PM
As you and mr. p like to so frequently point out, the girls on SW do NOT represent the typical stripper. On the flipside, I don't believe you guys on SCJ represent the typical customer.LOL..really? what gave us away? the SCJ header or the jaded attitude of PLs who have probably been going to sc for so long. they can't remember the last time they got a hard-on watching a stage show?
mr_punk
06-10-2007, 01:29 PM
Sure, it's an unnatural, artificial environment.yes, but the problem isn't the environment (IIRC, someone on ASSC facetiously described it as such: "they pretend to like it. we pretend to respect them"). the problem is people who derive a mistaken impression of the environment. that is the source of bad behavior not the environment itself.
My only real issue is the naive strippers who don't understand human nature well, and are shocked by so much of what happens in the club. They don't see how their own choice to participate in this twisted environment contributes to the behavior.i don't necessarily see it as an issue of naivete about human nature or shock. sometimes, it's an expression of outrage. for instance, i'm sure you're quite aware that ROBs exist in sc. still, if you got ripped-off. would you take things calmly and act philosophical about the matter? i know i wouldn't because if it happened to me. first, i would burst into flames right before i started yelling at management and called the police. And, i wouldn't cool down until i see some cash, the biatch's head on a silver platter or both.
doc-catfish
06-10-2007, 01:42 PM
strippers on SW do not speak for the entire industry.
Oh, but they do X. Haven't you got the memo that non-SW dancers that refuse to tow the pinkie manifesto (you know, the ones 95% of us do actual business with) aren't fit to be dancers and should be kicked out?
:rotfl:
For the record, I don't grind back. Its too hard on mine.
xdamage
06-11-2007, 10:36 AM
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
X, WTF are you doing trying to put words into Darcy's mouth!?! THAT is what is pissing me off. If her experience tells her that only 30% listen, who the fuck are you to tell her otherwise because of your Malthusian mindset? Hegel is so 100 years ago. I digress once again.
Apparently you are not reading what she is writing or you are so emotionally wrapped up in seeing the villianized view of men you can read it.. And having an emotional outburst doesn't and never has helped the blue side discussions. She has now been clearer.
These are her additional words verbatim:
"However, I didn't mention that the majority of customers I dance for over all are generally pretty well behaved."
In other words, the MAJORITY of her customers DO understand when she explains that no touching is allowed. It's the remainder who touch anyway. Of those only about 30% stop when asked.
That's a much different picture then "If her experience tells her that only 30% listen,..."
The misandry sucks btw.
xdamage
06-11-2007, 11:18 AM
yes, but the problem isn't the environment (IIRC, someone on ASSC facetiously described it as such: "they pretend to like it. we pretend to respect them"). the problem is people who derive a mistaken impression of the environment. that is the source of bad behavior not the environment itself.
Strangely I think that both sides benefit from the mistaken impressions, so it persists. If everyone was really clear minded and we took the pretense entirely out of everyone's minds, my guess is that most dancers wouldn't make a fraction of what they make, men would only spend on those with the best bods, and/or highest mileage, and it would be a lot clearer in the dancers minds who do this for empowerment reasons that they are being paid to be a sex object, no pretense of being a GFE or having any emotional control over customers. How many dancers would really want the business to work that way?
[doc-catfish]
Oh, but they do X. Haven't you got the memo that non-SW dancers that refuse to tow the pinkie manifesto (you know, the ones 95% of us do actual business with) aren't fit to be dancers and should be kicked out?
[/quote]
LOL, yea, I hear you ;)
mr_punk
06-16-2007, 08:54 PM
Strangely I think that both sides benefit from the mistaken impressions, so it persists. If everyone was really clear minded and we took the pretense entirely out of everyone's minds, my guess is that most dancers wouldn't make a fraction of what they make, men would only spend on those with the best bods, and/or highest mileage, and it would be a lot clearer in the dancers minds who do this for empowerment reasons that they are being paid to be a sex object, no pretense of being a GFE or having any emotional control over customers. How many dancers would really want the business to work that way?sure, if you removed pretense. i don't think many customers (except the degenerate lechers who are indifferent) would like or benefit from it. the fact of the matter is that neither party could get what they want without acting as implicit co-conspiritors in the first place.
evan_essence
06-16-2007, 09:21 PM
Okay, everyone, stop baiting X. You're forcing him to take the time to write 12 paragraphs to respond to every 1 that you're writing. It's hardly fair that you're exploiting his weakness like that. Besides, he can't help it if he sees the battle of the sexes as an actual battle, instead of the mating ritual it's supposed to be. I mean, even mr_p is entertaining in battle, but if you were humor impaired, you too would see it X's way.
-Ev
xdamage
06-18-2007, 07:50 AM
Besides, he can't help it if he sees the battle of the sexes as an actual battle, instead of the mating ritual it's supposed to be. I mean, even mr_p is entertaining in battle, but if you were humor impaired, you too would see it X's way.
-Ev
The mating ritual/tensions work and don't bother me. But you see people take it pretty seriously when the topic is racism, or gay-hate (which we reasonably argue is a genetic pre-disposition), or hatred of females. I guess a big part of me thinks that there is a certain blindness at play when it comes to women (among this group anyway) who hate males. To me they are the people, who had they been male, probably would have been the opposite sex haters, but they are blind like everyone else that has lived and died since. Basically it's a good thing they weren't born with dicks or they'd be the female haters among us. Still, it's a waste of time to tell them. Haters all have one thing in common - they are blind to their own hatred, think their reasons are justified, and no matter what anyone says to them, they won't hear it as a serious problem.
As for Mr Punk's humor, have you noticed he never goes over to the Pink side to bash women or dancers, and yet you all come over here to fight with him? This weakness you speak of... it seems to me a mirror is required here. Without even going over to the Pink side his "humor" draws several of you over to the blue side, quite literally you police him over here, and feel compelled to correct him when he posts one of his humorous anti-dancer posts. Mirrors, we need more mirrors.
Katrine
06-18-2007, 11:30 AM
Why do you assume Jenny, and others, hate men? And this site is for strippers overall. If you guys are too pussy to deal with us coming down here, go bitch on aspd, or some other site for mysoginists.
yoda57us
06-18-2007, 01:14 PM
I'll leave them out as you wish, but whatever is motivating the dancer/ex-dancers, the blue side discussions often get side tracked by a few women who have an agenda to point out how "men" or "customers" or both, who don't go out of their way to agree with everything they write, are foul. Get's old. It's also completely silly that we shouldn't be able to discuss these things objectively on the blue side without those agendas.
If by "agenda" you mean point of view you are going to have to come to grips with the fact that we all have one and we all come here to express it. You can't post in a vacuum X. If you post an opinion others are going to add their two cents no matter who the post was intended for. Lots of threads get sidetracked here, on the pink side and on every other chat board I'm on. It's the nature of the venue.
I like the Blue girls. They contribute a lot. And I know they are fond of us too. I mean, look at Ev's new attachment as an example. She knows exactly what mr_p likes and was thoughtful enough to post a fond reminder for him. I bet it took a lot of Google time for her to find that file. If that's not love for her junkie brothers, I don't know what is.
FBR
Jenny
06-18-2007, 05:26 PM
I like the Blue girls. They contribute a lot. Yeah. We're like... cheerleaders. But different.
Ouch. So are you saying that if the girls weren't here, we would transmogrify into lameness? Hell, If I had known that, I would have been nice to them ;)
FBR
Yeah. We're like... cheerleaders. But different.
Thanks for the new fantasy.
FBR
xdamage
06-19-2007, 08:17 AM
If by "agenda" you mean point of view you are going to have to come to grips with the fact that we all have one and we all come here to express it.
This is a major mis-direct. By agenda, I meant what I said, some of the girls have an anti-male, anti-customer agenda, and invariably push the conversation in that direction. Nothing more or less. I didn't say anything about they shouldn't be allowed to post, or that human's don't have agendas, but that not all agenda are equally heinous, so bringing up that we all have agenda is major misdirect and appeals to pseudo logic, but doesn't change that some agendas are worse then others. If your point had value, then we may as well put up with racism, sexism, homophobia, and much else because "everyone has an agenda" and so everything is equal - blah to that.
They are welcome to post. OTOH if some of us see a pattern to their posts that are anti-male, anti-customer (and I'm not the only one) then you shouldn't feel threatened by some of us saying so. Not all of us seek the girls approval in everything. If saying so makes those posters uncomfortable, that is the whole point - not to make them feel welcome and say what they want to hear, but for them to hear that the anti-male/anti-customer agenda is unwelcome.
I understand that you may not see it, or maybe if you say things in nice ways to them they seem to be nice, but I don't feel an desire to trying to form every statement I make in a way that doesn't piss-off the girls. I just call it like I see it, and given that some other customers have pointed out the pattern of anti-male, anti-customer agenda, that suggests there is something to it that you're not seeing it. You don't have to agree or see it yourself Yoda, but that doesn't mean others don't. Nothing to be threatened by if you don't see it.
Why do you assume Jenny, and others, hate men?
LOL, start here with Jenny "Eat me, Patriarchal Swine". Beyond that I'd say you'd have to be a guy and read the posts from a guys point of view.
If you guys are too pussy to deal with us coming down here,
No, there are more options on the table then these:
1.) Let us say whatever we want and reply to us nicely.
We are perfectly capable of dealing with it, however we are men. Not infatuated bitch-boys, not these girls daddies, not pussies, not PLs who agree with everything the girls write and take politely.
As men we get to call you on it. I really see it more as, if you girls are too pussy to deal with men calling the girls on it when they are pushing their anti-male/anti-customer agenda/BS, maybe stay on pink where men are required to post things in "nice" ways that the girls want to hear (even if a lot of it is BS).
dayzed
06-19-2007, 09:52 AM
Let us say whatever we want and reply to us nicely.
Sounds about as fun as a night out in an Atlanta SC.
One of the more interesting things to me about the SC is how the objectives of the customers and providers of the service so often not only fail to converge but remain diametrically opposed. I know this is true in many industries, but rarely are the underlying impulses so primal and connected to who we are as people (as opposed to mere market participants). And here we have a MB where the two camps actually engage in open discussion (unlike the vast majority of industry-driven MB). Nevermind that nearly all of the best humor on the site comes when the more gifted spokespeople from each "side" go at it.
yoda57us
06-19-2007, 02:50 PM
This is a major mis-direct. By agenda, I meant what I said, some of the girls have an anti-male, anti-customer agenda, and invariably push the conversation in that direction. Nothing more or less. I didn't say anything about they shouldn't be allowed to post, or that human's don't have agendas, but that not all agenda are equally heinous, so bringing up that we all have agenda is major misdirect and appeals to pseudo logic, but doesn't change that some agendas are worse then others. If your point had value, then we may as well put up with racism, sexism, homophobia, and much else because "everyone has an agenda" and so everything is equal - blah to that.
Sorry X but I just don't see it the same way you do. That's not a "miss-direct", that's my opinion on your post. Pure and simple.
I don't see any anti male or anti customer agendas from any of the ladies in question. What I see are dancers (or former dancers) responding to the topics at hand from their respective POV. I really wouldn't expect their views to be the same as yours or mine. We are not dancers and they are not customers. We are not women and they are not men.
I take every word that is posted on this board at face value. Nothing more and nothing less. If I'm interested in the topic I respond to it. I skip over the stuff that doesn't interest me. If an interesting thread goes off on a tangent that bores me I stop reading it. Pretty simple concept I guess but my point is that no one is forcing you to read the stuff that you don't find pertinent or entertaining. Again, it's a simple concept but this is an open forum and people are gonna post what they are gonna post.
I post what I post as well and, fortunately for me, I post with little regard as to weather or not you will feel that my opinion has has any value.
Just for the record, no one is suggesting that we tolerate racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. but the fact is that racists, sexists and homo phobics post on boards everyday. We have something called freedom of speech in this country. That means that everyone gets to talk...Not just to the people who don't bug us...
xdamage
06-19-2007, 03:50 PM
Freedom of speech is fine, but it comes with freedom of others to respond as well, and the responses aren't always positive. Say what you want, but expect a backlash is possible as well. As I said, its not that they should stop posting, but OTOH it's not the pink side and the girls aren't guaranteed that the men over here will tell them only what they want to hear in response.
It's interesting that you don't see any anti-male/anti-customer agenda or sentiments in any of the posts from some of (not all, just some) the dancers. I do however. And you know it was just a few paragraphs ago that even Katrine was saying/asking, why is it so unfathomable that dancers end up having troubles/liking men? Even in that, it's an indirect agreement that these agendas aren't just in my head but really do happen to dancers.
I guess for me if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, I start to feel fairly comfortable calling it a duck. I don't need a direct declaration "I hate customers" or "I hate men" to see it as such, for the same reasons I don't need to entertain Clintinesque head burying like "it depends on what the meaning of is, is". At some point I am comfortable with adding up the sum experience and drawing a conclusion, and don't want to dance around the apparent facts in PC muck. Oh I'll grant that if you are very careful in what you write the ladies can be agreeable, but I read some of the posts and a lot of guys seem to be communicating on a bed of nails, trying to carefully couch each sentence in a way that is pink friendly. Sometimes that's a useful skill, sometimes its needed as in the case of a moderator whose job it is to keep the peace, sometimes it s just the way a person really is, sometimes it's the way guys act around hot women because it increases their score factor, and sometimes it ends up just being manipulative and overall harmful (even if it does keep the peace for another day).
p.s. I do however think it should be an enlightening point that a woman who has a strong anti-male agenda yet claims to be a feminist is, ironically, an example of the kind of personality type that has been the cause of sexism all along. It's so easy to blaim most of one's personal problems on an entire group of people, yet it happens over and over. It's something that they need to be told. At least I'm not afraid to tell them, look hun, get a mirror - there is the one of the sexists who you should be blaiming for the evil of sexism in human history. If you don't see it, that's cool. If you do see it, your doing these women a disservice by not telling them so.
yoda57us
06-19-2007, 05:13 PM
X, you are the one hung up on the word "agenda". I simply see it as an alternate point of view. It has nothing to do with weather or not I detect any sort of anti-anything sentiment. It has to do with weather or not I CARE. I don't. It's their POV, they are entitled to it, have at it!
The ladies who post down here know full well that it is NOT the pink side. They come here fully expecting to roll around in the dirt with us. I don't see any of them asking for any sort of guarantee of anything as far as our responses go.
I'm really having a huge problem trying to figure out what your issue is here beyond wanting to be able to make your point with no opinions to the contrary being expressed. "Backlash"? Dude, it's a chat board. Post or don't post. It's really that simple. You can not, however, control the way others choose to respond to your opinions. That is simply the nature of this sort of forum.
xdamage
06-19-2007, 05:54 PM
It has to do with weather or not I CARE. I don't.
You can not, however, control the way others choose to respond to your opinions. That is simply the nature of this sort of forum.
If you really don't care, and you really believed this advice you just gave, then why get involved at all? Your point is well taken, but if you really believed this then you wouldn't be trying to control the way others (me) in this case responds to their opinions either.
It's totally clear to everyone that there are differences of opinion on a board like this, so honestly Yoda, what's your point here? Because I'm honestly thinking your just interjecting this to make yourself look good to the ladies, to let us know that you don't see anti-male/anti-customer sentiments. Great, we got that. You are either right on, or your blind to it. Or maybe you are dispassionate as you suggested...
But you haven't really contributed anything to the point and you haven't enlightened any of us by telling us that people have differences of opinion. And yes, everyone gets that there will be dissenting opinions.
You also wrote: "I simply see it as an alternate point of view." - I'm glad for you that you don't care, and no matter what peoples opinions are it's all just neutral to you, and another POV. Not everyone is so dispassionate or sees all POVs as neutral, or equal. Can you following your own advice then, you get to contribute to this board, but you don't get decide for us all that we should be as dispassionate or uncaring (your comments) about everything that is written. While you may see your dispassion as a virtue, I view dispassion as pretty much the opposite of what I want to be. For me I think too many people deal with complex issues by not dealing with them, but just giving up and seeing everything as a neutral POV, no matter how heinous, they avoid taking a side or deciding. That's great for them, but it doesn't work for me. I find the anti-male agenda as heinous as the anti-female agendas that have contributed to so much oppression over many millenium. It wasn't the dispassionate, neutral, see all POVs people that changed that. It was those who had the balls to say wrong, no, stop, all POVs are not equal. Just my opinion. You are of course welcome to your approach and beliefs as well.
Bottom line is my noting that there are few girls who spend a lot of time down here turning the conversation to why men or customers suck isn't controlling them, it isn't controlling their statements, it probably won't change them, but it may make them aware that at least a few of us men find it to be lame, immature, sexist, and if that makes them uncomfy, too bad. That's the point. They are not angels, and it isn't going to hurt them if they have to deal with a few men in life who tell them they are full of shit.
Jenny
06-19-2007, 09:09 PM
LOL, start here with Jenny "Eat me, Patriarchal Swine". Beyond that I'd say you'd have to be a guy and read the posts from a guys point of view.
Dude - you clearly don't heart irony. That line actually came from a satirical exchange with a guy (from here actually) - he kindly gave me permission to use it in my signature. We thought it was funny. Of course now that an obviously satirical, hyperbolic statement has been put to use as evidence in your political agenda, it's that much funnier. Sort of like when that Onion article was reprinted as a serious story. You're adorable x. Don't ever change.
1.) Let us say whatever we want and reply to us nicely.
We are perfectly capable of dealing with it, however we are men. Not infatuated bitch-boys, not these girls daddies, not pussies, not PLs who agree with everything the girls write and take politely.
What are you talking about? That's exactly what you are. What irritates you is the girls who don't act like strippers - the one's that aren't appropriately meeting your infatuated bitch boy stance. I mean geez x. Every thinking person here knows I don't "hate men" and knows I don't "hate customers". The only one's who think I do are the one's who can't deal with the possibility that I don't think much of them personally and then have to creatively read and interpret my posts, while ignoring and replacing every qualifier to avoid whatever miniscule impact my opinion has on their fragile egos.
Seriously - you mention my name, or mention me by inference, like quite a lot. Like a whole lot more than I mention you. Don't you think that's... weird, considering that you know I try to avoid actually interacting with you? Like, really - who really has the agenda here? Maybe you should consider (and note - I'm not trying to tell you to stop - just to consider something) that you have an unwholesome preoccupation with my social politics (or how you perceive my social politics). I'm not really interested in scrapping over this; but seriously I think there is something a little off about it.