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carolina6
05-19-2007, 02:26 AM
I feel like if someone asks, "Don't you think it's worth it to risk your health, sanity, etc. to have children?" I'd say, "My possible pregnancy is the business of my impregnator and I, so since you're not either of those parties, you'll just have to stick to worrying about your own pregnancies." I'm pretty much a bitch when it comes to other people's opinions about my life, whether they are family or not. My mom told me I should be a secretary instead of a dancer and I told her when she makes more money than I do then she can give me her opinion on where to work.

If I want to eat steak for dinner every night for the rest of my life, and you plan on eating chicken, I don't really give two shits that you think everyone should experience chicken sometime in their life because chicken is so awesome and you just love it. You think that nothing in my life will ever compare to the feelings I'll have when I eat chicken. You can't even understand why I wouldn't risk my life and pay tons of money to eat chicken. Maybe I just really like steak and I have no desire to ever try chicken. If I start a thread called "Tell Me Why You Like Steak!" it shouldn't ever mention chicken. That would just be pointless. Exactly like 75% of this thread.

Oh, and DylanAngel, I hope it's clear that none of us ever thought you didn't love your kids. I think someone was too lazy to actually read the whole thread, or even all your posts.

kittenkat
05-19-2007, 02:27 AM
Now that we're back on topic...

BTW, I'm past 30, and I've helped raise many of my friends kids. One of my good friends had his wife have a nervous breakdown after the kid and left the relationship- she was in no shape to care for herself, much less a baby. She was bipolar with severe postpartum depression and had a serious mental break. I took care of the baby like she was mine for 5 years, she's my goddaughter and I love her. I saw every day to the point where she would call me momma. Another friend was an absentee mother, and I took care of her son constantly for a few years until the relationship I had with my friend blew up and we stopped talking to each other. It used to break my heart when her kid would ask me to be his mommy and could he come home with me. I'm close to more than a dozen of my friends kids. I've taken care of kids, and those I have, I loved and cared for without question. I don't need genetics to care for a child- I don't need to go through a pregnancy. I helped my friends with their kids because I love my friends, my friends are family, and they were in need. I choose to be child-free because I honestly don't want children for many, many, many reasons. Period. Yes, I loved my goddaughter but I don't care for babies. I can take care of a baby. I know this. I don't want to. I can love a child. I know this. I don't want my own. I'm NOT interested in doing either, and the reasons why are mine to discuss or not discuss with others as I choose. Even if I never took care of kids and simply didn't want kids for ANY reason, it's a valid reason.

I'm sorry if I flipped out, and I don't care about people disagreeing so much- but I hate people being self-righteous about it. I'm over 30, and I feel stronger about not wanting kids than I did when I was 20, so the assumption of "you'll change your mind" without knowing anything about someone is pure disrespect and unwarranted.

Also, Dylan- THANK YOU. You had kids and you also feel that you don't want anymore. And honestly, that's all people need to know, and the fact that you don't want anymore should be all they need to hear. The fact that other people make you feel uncomfortable- and SELFISH- for not wanting anymore sucks, because it's none of their business. IRL, I just tell people the subject's not up for discussion when people ask, because I'm sick of being patronized. In fact, I refuse to have a relationship with my BF's stepmother on this account. She wants him to have kids, and hell if she's going to try that by pressuring me. Oh, and the "say you love you kids" was beyond condescending and missing the point altogether. Just because child-free women don't want kids doesn't mean we think mothers that have kids by shouldn't or don't love their own kids. Another big obvious D-U-H. It's also ludicrous that he thought you were a weetle meek sheeple that was sooooooooooo pressured by people on this thread that you were afraid to say you loved your kids because god forbid, you're delicate heart needs validation from women on a bulletin board. And most of all, thank you for being understanding and not condescending. YOU ARE THE BOMB, as are any mothers that posted respectfully without insulting other's intelligence and being respectful to others.

kittenkat
05-19-2007, 02:51 AM
Does anyone else have this problem? I've heard a few mentions of it. How do you deal with people that say you should risk it for the sake of having a baby? I find it offensive that an unwanted unplanned unborn child is more important than me dying.

LM- I had more than 1 person tell me that if I really loved a man, I would risk death to have his child. How do you counter that kind of stupidity? You... just can't. The only thing to do at that point is to tell them to go fuck themselves in one way or the other.

Carolina, your steak/chicken analogy was hilarious.

Darkshard
05-19-2007, 05:47 AM
I'll chime in here. I'm 38, do not, and have not ever, wanted children. The 'not wanting' part has only gotten stronger the longer I've been alive.

I don't hate children, several of my friends have the little critters and I adore them, but, I also know that part of the reason I adore them is I can give them back when they get cranky!

On the few occasions I get the 'when are you and hubby having kids' I sweetly inform the person that my sex life & reproductive status is none of their concern...it's worked nicely so far.

(it helps a LOT that my parents don't care if I have kids or not as long as I'm happy, and the hubby's parents live wayyy far away *grins*)

flickad
05-19-2007, 06:20 AM
Is there a fucking echo in here?

Is there a reason for your extremely hostile defensiveness? I'm not the bandwagon type. Search my posts if you don't want to take my word for it.

flickad
05-19-2007, 06:23 AM
I kept quiet and they forgot about me.

I'm closer to 30 than I am 20 these days :laughing:

I had the same mind and belief and decision when I was just out of high school so I wasn't EVEN 20 years of age as I do now.

Yes, likewise. I'll be 29 this year, and I decided once and for all at thirteen that I never wanted children. Of course, I got the 'you'll change your mind' bullshit all through my teens and twenties and some people are still dumb enough to tell me I'll change it in ten years, but meh. Telling them that babies make me want to vomit is a good way to end that particular discussion.

Kaylinn
05-19-2007, 06:36 AM
Do you think people ( women) actually "change their mind" or do you think that somewhere, in the back of your head, you always knew you'd never have kids, and never change yoru mind?
Like...Even when I was younger, and said I'd never have kids, in the back of my mind, I always knew if I got pregnant, I could never have an abortion. I think somewhere, I always knew I'd want a kid, someday. When I got older, I realized that, yes, I do want a kid. Just 1.
So maybe....people never really do change their mind. Maybe....it's just something your either born with or not. That maternal instinct. Some people have it, some don't.
I haven't read this thread word for word, but it seems to me that most of you childfree people are saying your tired of hearing " you'll change your mind" Most of you have said, being childfree is what I've always wanted, I've never had a desire for kids. So I think...the child free won't change their minds, cause they just were not given that maternal instinct. For whatever reason.
Just cause you were born with ovaries don't mean you MUST have kids. If that were the case....
Gay men would be born sterile. I mean..gay men don't need their sperm, right? SO why were they born with some? Same reason women who don't want kids have ovaries. Just cause you were born with certain parts don't mean you were meant to use them.

I don't thin kI worded that right, or expressed my thought well...but you kow what I mean, right? I got my point across?

DylanAngel
05-19-2007, 06:54 AM
I don't thin kI worded that right, or expressed my thought well...but you kow what I mean, right? I got my point across?

You're fine. I understand what you said perfectly. It's completely presumptuous of someone to assume that some people don't know what they want or ,in this case, don't want, in life.

It truly depends on the person.

flickad
05-19-2007, 07:16 AM
Do you think people ( women) actually "change their mind" or do you think that somewhere, in the back of your head, you always knew you'd never have kids, and never change yoru mind?
Like...Even when I was younger, and said I'd never have kids, in the back of my mind, I always knew if I got pregnant, I could never have an abortion. I think somewhere, I always knew I'd want a kid, someday. When I got older, I realized that, yes, I do want a kid. Just 1.
So maybe....people never really do change their mind. Maybe....it's just something your either born with or not. That maternal instinct. Some people have it, some don't.
I haven't read this thread word for word, but it seems to me that most of you childfree people are saying your tired of hearing " you'll change your mind" Most of you have said, being childfree is what I've always wanted, I've never had a desire for kids. So I think...the child free won't change their minds, cause they just were not given that maternal instinct. For whatever reason.
Just cause you were born with ovaries don't mean you MUST have kids. If that were the case....
Gay men would be born sterile. I mean..gay men don't need their sperm, right? SO why were they born with some? Same reason women who don't want kids have ovaries. Just cause you were born with certain parts don't mean you were meant to use them.

I don't thin kI worded that right, or expressed my thought well...but you kow what I mean, right? I got my point across?


I think some change their minds and others don't. Regardless, it's patronising to tell someone they will and implies you know their mind better than they themselves do.

Personally, I've always known I wouldn't and have likewise known that I'd have an abortion should I ever get pregnant accidentally.

BlackSheEp3
05-19-2007, 07:34 AM
Im child free cause i dont have a wife and a bunch of money yet to support....when i do then i wont be child free.

Paintbaby
05-19-2007, 11:02 AM
Yay! Back on topic!

I think what really brings out the patronizing misogyny in some men is the fact that some women DARE to decide to not want children. It really galls them , since they can't relate to women as intelligent beings with their own agency. Plus, it also fucks with their misguided sense of control--the idea of a non-childed women being outside the realm of a man's control really pisses them off. How dare us uppity bitches not want to tie ourselves to someone for the rest of our lives! How dare we not give up our lives to raise a FAMBLY! They would never admit it, of course, but it isn't hard to tell. Bad debating, lack of scientific data to back up outrageous claims, excessive verbosity, straw arguments and condesension ensue whenever I have tried to have a conversation with such an entitleduh--- In the real world, and on this thread.

And then we have the angry, pregnant types who get their maternity underwear all in a bunch whenever a woman declares her happily childfree status. Taking it as a personal affront, these types eventually resort to the "you'd make a bad parent ANYWAY ARRRRGHGHHAHHAAHARGARGARGHHHH!!!!!! line of, uh, reasoning. Entitlemoos in training, indeed. It's a veritable landmine field for us childfree gals who just want to get on with our happily childfree lives. Whatever happened to "live and let live"? Of course, one thing I have learned in life--those who are happiest with their choices don't feel the need to criticize, attack, or patronizingly "re-educate" us on the error of our ways regarding ours.

Now if you'll excuse me--my childfree self is taking my perfectly toned childfree ass to yoga class now. When I will return, my childfree self will get back to my easel and spend the afternoon painting. And I will be happy and fulfilled every childfree minute.

Enjoy the day, childfree ladies and gentlemen!;D

Dirty Ernie
05-19-2007, 01:20 PM
I would hope the patronizing mysogyny angle is the exception and not the rule. It seems the "you'll change your mind" response is more of a conditioned societal response and is meant to be fairly benign, cuz we all heard it again and again as children.

However, when the childfree women responding to this thread are labeled sheep and not capable of making independent judgements, I cringe. Being childfree is a decision that demands thought and responsibility. Getting knocked up requires laying there and being too irresponsible to ensure proper contraceptive measures are in place. I'm not implying every pregnancy occcurs in this manner. Some smart, responsible people choose to have children, some choose to not. Some really stupid, clueless people have kids, by choice or not, but I dont know any stupid, clueless people who have chosen to be childfree. The downside is they are providing part of the material for the next generation and we, the childfree are headed for extinction. The answer is inform and educate!

Back on topic: I played poker with friends last night til 4a.m. The host had to get up at 7 for a T-ball game. I slept in til 9:30. SCORE!!

AlexxaHex
05-19-2007, 02:29 PM
Is there a reason for your extremely hostile defensiveness? I'm not the bandwagon type. Search my posts if you don't want to take my word for it.

If you and others would take the time to read my responses, I wouldn't have to repeat myself like 4382473947 times because people keep asking me the same questions over and over. I dont know about "extremely hostile defensiveness" because that would be REALLY ugly and probably get me banned (this is me being fairly nice), but I do get quite annoyed when I am asked to repeat myself.

kittenkat
05-19-2007, 02:35 PM
I would hope the patronizing mysogyny angle is the exception and not the rule. It seems the "you'll change your mind" response is more of a conditioned societal response and is meant to be fairly benign, cuz we all heard it again and again as children.

The thing is, the idea that woman=mother=love babies still exist, and that comes from the gender role enforcement that our society runs under. It's definitely getting better- in no way do I want to go back 50 years. That doesn't mean that it still exists.

When I say that, people get their knickers in a bunch. I'm NOT saying that women can't be mothers, that women can't love their babies. Of course many mothers and fathers love their kids. I'm only saying that your biology often does NOT define a person or their choices, although it can have an influence. In fact, I'd say both men and women have a drive to procreate. Some of us just don't, both male and female- and I don't think it's anyone's business if we don't.

Also, some ppl get upset that other people make different choices- and some people think people that make different choices are making the wrong or inferior choice. The reason I get so upset about the "you'll change your mind" is often that they're assuming something about me, they know nothing about me- and I really don't give people too much exceptions for "conditional societal response." I grew up in the deep south where I got my ass kicked for being asian and non-Christian. I really feel no need to excuse what people did (discrimination) because it was a conditioned response. They're still assholes.

The "you'll regret it crowd" is similar to the obnoxious Christians that try to convert uninterested non-Christians with exuberance mixed in with condescending and patronizing drivel (I found Jesus and I love him and so much and he's made a big difference in my life and sheesh, you'll never know how I feel. You'll change your mind! I'll pray for you!!" yet they don't leave you alone and keep badgering you). Yes, they have the right to try to convert me, and yes, they have the right to be exuberant and passionate about their religion. I also have the right to say STFU and get the fuck out of my face if they don't get the initial response of "I'm not interested." Same thing.

kittenkat
05-19-2007, 02:40 PM
I think some change their minds and others don't. Regardless, it's patronising to tell someone they will and implies you know their mind better than they themselves do.


Yup x 10,000

AlexxaHex
05-19-2007, 03:06 PM
I just want to clarify for anyone who doesn't get it. Alexxa... the ones you are calling sheep and have you annoyed... it's the name-calling people? Not all the childfree in general? Because I trust that you aren't super judgmental. I think you're pretty damn awesome, actually.

Thanks, LJ. I think you're pretty damn awesome too. ;D

I will clarify this ONE MORE TIME and then absolutely no more because I think my head will explode after that:
The people I am referring to as sheep are the ones in this thread (regardless of reproductive choice) who continue to gang up on other posters for the sake of feeling validation for their point of view. I don't care if you have no babies or 300 babies, just please stop trying to censor, silence and verbally gang rape those who are just attempting to explain their position. I have only seen MAYBE one person in this whole thread who is trying to tell the "other side" what they should do with their bodies. Other than that, I see a difference in personal real life choice, but not anything remotely preachy or with an intent to "convert" people to having babies. I am all about free choice, people, so it bothers me equally when I feel as though my choice to share an opinion is met with hostility, especially when I'm not trying to tell anyone to have kids.

kittenkat
05-19-2007, 03:54 PM
I personally don't have an issue with your posts, Alexxa. I just flipped out over xdamage because he came down as extremely condescending in my book- and it had nothing to do with gender.

I'm going to explain because I've read your other posts, and I flipped out over xdamage's post for a reason, not yours.

Let's say for the purpose of this discussion that you write start a thread asking for this:



Who here is Satanist and Why?

NOTE: Please do not flame this thread. I am respectful of other people's choices, so please be respectful of mine. Please don't start defending your religion, or accuse us of hating your religion, or tell us that we're horrible people. I especially don't want to hear, "You'll change your mind someday," or, "It's different when you find Jesus." Maybe it will happen, but you don't know that. No lectures please. You have your lifestyle choices, we have ours.

Then you have a former Satanist now born Again Christian poster that keeps writing comments such as this:


As for you feeling like you're being "pushed". This is in your head. You shouldn't confuse the presentation of Christianity with being "pushed" which is your emotional reaction to it.


But if you do end up Christian, I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with enjoying the hell out of Christianity, making Jesus high priority in your life, and feeling no shame at all in telling others how important Christianity is too you. Not that others are going to relate, but hey, who said everyone else has to relate when we express ourselves?


The big difference is those who found Jesus have experienced both domains, while you've experienced only Satanism, which means that you are operating from a point of less information. It's a complete mistake to think of these states a or b because it's far more a case of you've experienced Satanism, and others have experienced Satanism and Christianity.


I now see that Christians are not being condescending at all, they are being overly exhuberant.


I think it's a big mistake when people who don't have Jesus compare their love for a thing or a hobby or even a career with their love for Jesus that they don't have. It's like a pre-pubscent kid thinking they understand sex because they have seen others go through the motions.


And just a point of enlightenment, Born Again Christians hardly sounds like a significant social problem. At worst it's a minor annoyance, but if our worse social problem is people loving Jesus too much I'd sleep better at night. However the "entitlement" notion is more a problem with perception on your part.

when Satanists on the thread object, the person writes:


Scary, because few people have the ability to make decisions for themselves anymore. Everyone seeks validation like sheep.


It's not an easy thing to stand up against dozens of 20 year old Satanists. The fact that they showed even a little bit of backbone against the crowds and a positive attitude towards Jesus is admirable. Frankly, far more admirable then dozens of Sanatanists who group think wise all pat each other on the back and don't want Jesus. Thats cool, but come on, lets face facts, that so predictable and easy to think that way who really cares? In our 20 somethings most of us dont want Jesus - yawn, big fucking deal, we all thought that way. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I'm gonna cheer for the Christians. They are the ones showing the real spine, and for a good cause, Jesus.


I just find it to be pathetic how wussy people are, so scared, having to carefully pick every word for fear you might piss off the mob of Satanists. Spines = who gives a fuck. Just say what your experience is, stop sugar coating it, and who cares if the Satanists hear that they might want Jesus later in life?

and to a Christian that was being respectful of Satanim, the poster whines:


Geezus, it's such a minor and irrelevant thing. They won't die over it you know. You found Jesus, Dylan. You did such a great job of dancing around everything but actually saying you liked Jesus. Maybe you didn't. Or maybe you did but you let the group scare the fuck out of you instead of just saying the truth. Me, I just say the truth. Faith is work, yea, but I love the hell out of Jesus and I don't give a fuck who on the planet is made uncomfy by that - its just fact, and doesn't tell them what they should do with their lives.

If I was a Satanist, i would tell the person they're being condescending jerks and they need to start their own thread about loving Jesus, and not come into a thread discussing Satanism with their Jesus crap. That's not to say that I think they shouldn't love Jesus, but that thread is not about Jesus.

So, I have nothing against your posts- just xdamage's posts, and I felt that he was being exceedingly condescending. If you don't see it, you want to support it, or if you have more tolerance for this type of behavior, then that's your right as much as I have the right to disagree and tell xdamage to fuck off.

I had no issues with people that were respectful of this thread and still talked about the love for their kids- example: Sunshyn. I don't think you were trying to be condescending, either. On the other hand, I think xdamage was by talking about 20-somethings (aka them young womensez that don't know shit), kept pushing his agenda (I should be able to tell people to change their minds!!!!), and it crossed over into blatant disrespect.

Freedom of Speech also means that people have the right to tell you to take your shit elsewhere. That's not censoring someone when they HAVE OPTIONS TO DO SO, as xdamage did.

and I apologize for the thread derailment. I just felt the need to explain why I flipped out.

ETA: A few more prized ones:


The definition of condescending does not mean when people tell you information you are incorrect or completely lacking in and that makes you feel bad. It's not a matter of talking down to you, it's a matter of fact that you don't have the experience of finding Jesus, so you don't yet grasp the intensity of it. If you feel condescended on it's because you've been knocked off a faulty pedestal you shouldn't place yourself on. There is nothing wrong with not knowing something or not experiencing something, but there is something wrong when you saying that the love you experience with others is the same as that as what you'd experience with Jesus. You don't have the experience to know that, no matter how much you want to believe you do.


The title was that, the actual question from the OP was more involved in that it had a lot more to do with how she felt about people who do have Jesus in their lives and how they made her feel.


I really can't relate at all to the notion that I wouldn't want Jesus because other people with them were being overly exhuberant in their love for Him. Quite honestly that makes no rationale sense to me at all. Nobody is forcing you to have Jesus or demanding it talking down to you when they share why they changed their mind about being Satanists. They are however saying they learned something new that they didn't know before the choice. If receiving info from people that have greater experience pisses you off then I certainly wouldn't want to think or sound like that either.

Lysondra
05-19-2007, 03:55 PM
^....*gigglesnort*

Dirty Ernie
05-19-2007, 04:19 PM
I don't think anyone has ganged up on a poster to validate their point of view. The poster gets "ganged up on" because they express the very viewpoint the OP stated in the very first post she'd like to avoid and then the poster goes on ad nauseum to continue to attempt to validate that position with incessant redundant replies. ENOUGH! In a public forum everyone has the opportunity to state a position, but the thread was started to share reasons why one chose to be childfree without the negativity faced IRL when people discover one has decided to be childfree. It's called support.

Mily
05-19-2007, 04:25 PM
I don't think anyone has ganged up on a poster to validate their point of view. The poster gets "ganged up on" because they express the very viewpoint the OP stated in the very first post she'd like to avoid and then the poster goes on ad nauseum to continue to attempt to validate that position with incessant redundant replies. ENOUGH! In a public forum everyone has the opportunity to state a position, but the thread was started to share reasons why one chose to be childfree without the negativity faced IRL when people discover one has decided to be childfree. It's called support.


:thanx:

flickad
05-19-2007, 04:49 PM
If you and others would take the time to read my responses, I wouldn't have to repeat myself like 4382473947 times because people keep asking me the same questions over and over. I dont know about "extremely hostile defensiveness" because that would be REALLY ugly and probably get me banned (this is me being fairly nice), but I do get quite annoyed when I am asked to repeat myself.

Actually, I didn't address you once before you called us all sheep, so please be more careful with your language (ie 'you and others').

GoldCoastGirl
05-19-2007, 09:43 PM
Do you think people ( women) actually "change their mind" or do you think that somewhere, in the back of your head, you always knew you'd never have kids, and never change yoru mind?

Well, considering I have no qualms about abortion I know that I will never change my mind. If I find I'm pregnant, you better believe I'm getting that parasite out of me quick smart.

Think of me as you will however if you look up what a 'parasite' is .. you will see I use the term in the right way. The feotus (sp?) cannot survive without its host so it is a parasite.

parasite (noun)
..... an animal or plant that lives on or in another animal or plant of a different type and feeds from it.




So maybe....people never really do change their mind. Maybe....it's just something your either born with or not. That maternal instinct. Some people have it, some don't.

I do have a maternal instinct. Just have a look at how much I did for my animal companion Bibs. I did everything possible for her because I loved her so damn much. I never said I didn't have a maternal instinct, just that I know it is best directed with animals for me personally.

I have an easier time being maternal for animals (non humans) than humans. Plus .. well.. I can be maternal with other peoples' children as I find the fascinating creatures (thanks to my early childcare and education course experience)... just that I know myself well enough to know that MY OWN children are not "on the cards" for me in this life.

I saw the signs early. The Universe has told me again and again how I am not meant to having any of my own even tho' nothing is medically wrong with me.


Just cause you were born with certain parts don't mean you were meant to use them.
No truer words were spoken. Thank you :thanx:

AlexxaHex
05-19-2007, 10:07 PM
Kittenkat, I know why you flipped out, but I don't presume to think that I could start a thread about Satanism here and not have the post flamed to all hell. I hardly think the comparison between religious beliefs and reproductive choice is fair. You've proven your point with the example, yet I am not so naive as to think I could start such a post!
Who would I be kidding saying: "Why are you a Satanist? Tell me why you think Satan is awesome and the best and Christians suck dick...but please don't flame this thread..."when there are a bunch of Christians on here and I know it? Then with your example, I'd start lashing out at the Christians calling them all "bible thumpers" and other derogatory names because they have an opinion about Satanism.
Why would I want to alienate them by bringing it up in the first place? It's just unrealistic to bring up such a heated topic and then expect that people will color inside the lines. It just doesn't work like that on forums.

Elizabeth729
05-19-2007, 10:17 PM
This is really too bad. I liked how this thread started out, a place for women who have actively chosen not to have children to share the reasons why. Now I'm at the end - a childless by choice person who just spent an entire weekend with married parents at a wedding and realllllllllllly needing some support.

Should we have started our own website for support? Why is it unrealistic to try to stick to a topic?

If you want to discuss all the reasons for having children or argue about it, why didn't you start a thread for that purpose? Why disrupt this one?

flickad
05-19-2007, 10:23 PM
Well, considering I have no qualms about abortion I know that I will never change my mind. If I find I'm pregnant, you better believe I'm getting that parasite out of me quick smart.

Think of me as you will however if you look up what a 'parasite' is .. you will see I use the term in the right way. The feotus (sp?) cannot survive without its host so it is a parasite.

parasite (noun)
..... an animal or plant that lives on or in another animal or plant of a different type and feeds from it.




Though I do see the foetus as somewhat of a parasitic being, since it can only survive by feeding off its mother (and I also certainly agree with you completely on the abortion question), it does not fit the definition of a true parasite:

parasite (noun)
..... an animal or plant that lives on or in another animal or plant of a different type and feeds from it.

To qualify as a true parasite, the creature in question must come from a different species to the host. Hence a foetus, being of the same species as the mother/host, is not a parasite in the sense that, say, a tapeworm is.

GoldCoastGirl
05-19-2007, 10:37 PM
:-[ :-[ My bad! Tho' I am still not convinced it isn't a parasite in some form thus the reason I have no problems aborting it. It isn't a life until it is no longer 'part' of me and thus needs me to live. Flame me and judge me however you feel - these are my beliefs.

TO EACH THEIR OWN
in the end.

;D

flickad
05-19-2007, 10:38 PM
:-[ :-[ My bad! Tho' I am still not convinced it isn't a parasite in some form thus the reason I have no problems aborting it. It isn't a life until it is no longer 'part' of me and thus needs me to live. Flame me and judge me however you feel - these are my beliefs.

TO EACH THEIR OWN
in the end.

;D

I'm not going to flame you- I'm rabidly pro-choice. And I do mean rabidly.

GoldCoastGirl
05-19-2007, 11:01 PM
I mean the flaming and judging me in general on this forum not just you flickad :) please forgive me for not being clear on that...

jaizaine
05-19-2007, 11:06 PM
Actually, I didn't address you once before you called us all sheep, so please be more careful with your language (ie 'you and others').

Agreed. Xdamage managed to piss off everyone with his pseudo-intellectual rude posts that just went on and on and on....
I don't believe anyone here was being a sheep they were all just equally offended by his cocky rudeness.

AlexxaHex
05-19-2007, 11:16 PM
you called us all sheep

Actually, no I didn't. I was referring to some posters, not all.

TheSexKitten
05-20-2007, 12:34 AM
Wow, a whole 22 pages of bickering has been racked up. :no:

kittenkat
05-20-2007, 12:35 AM
Alexxa, if you feel that it's okay to derail threads and that people's wishes for a certain type of discussion doesn't need to be honored, that's your call, because that's basically what you're saying. He didn't state his position and leave it at that- he was condescending, and he showed no respect for the posters. What you say can be a big part of that- just because he used a soft approach doesn't make his attitude any more respectful. In fact, it makes it even less sincere. Also, the OP never said "mothers suck" on the initial post. She said she respects people's choices, but she wants to hear from like-minded women. If you think that's what she said, you're projecting.

Admittedly, I'm used to more tightly moderated forums and this is not- but I've come from the impression that forums are like conversations, just online, so I generally keep to the same standards.


I hardly think the comparison between religious beliefs and reproductive choice is fair.
Why is that? Both are intimate, personal decisions that are nobody else's business, no? I don't think people should have the right to make religious or reproductive choices for others, or do you feel differently?

Okay, back on topic.

For a woman that wants a biological child, a pregnancy is a blessing. For a woman that doesn't, an unwanted pregnancy can be seen as a parasitic situation that she desires to get out of. Honestly, as a woman, becoming pregnant in itself is a very neutral situation. It's the circumstances/desires pertaining to the mother that makes the situation good/bad/neutral. The biggest issue is that people tend to put value placements on a neutral situation and flip the fuck out when people don't fall lockstep.

I'm a pro bodily integrity and anti- forced pregnancy, because I hate the words pro-choice and pro-life. Pro-life isn't really about life- it's about valuing one life over another (the one of the fetus over the mother). Pro-choice isn't about choice moreso than about rights to bodily integrity that's a fundamental aspect of freedom.


So maybe....people never really do change their mind. Maybe....it's just something your either born with or not. That maternal instinct. Some people have it, some don't.

I don't think maternal instinct appears in both men and women. It's not just a woman thing- most people tend to have a protective instinct towards a helpless subject- it's a difference of what triggers it more than others in most cases. Then- there are those that have none, which isn't a bad thing- it's just what is it.

I love cats/dogs/animals - moreso than people in most cases. I prefer the adults and the seniors- rather than the kittens, bunnies, etc. Even with people, I feel very protective of the elderly and enjoy working with them very much. Nothing will make my maternal instinct bloom like an old cat or dog that's been dumped at the pound, the 5 year old kid that nobody wants because he's "too old", or an old lady that's in a neglectful situation. On the other hand human babies just don't do a damn thing for me. Kittens, puppies, etc are cute- but I would pick a 9 year old stray dog over a puppy any day.

I'm aware of my abilities so I work within them- which means doing rescue work for animals, working with abused kids, working with seniors. Maternal instinct doesn't have to result in parenthood, and those are the places where my maternal instinct goes to.

I'll clarify my position- I was ALWAYS biological child-free. I was NEVER interested in biological kids. I was VERY interested in adopting kids at some point in life. Over time, I realized I just don't have the patience or the health to be an adequate parent. I want to focus on my health and make sure I can live a healthy life for as long as possible. That's a pretty time consuming task. I know for a fact that I won't be able to care for my health as much as I should if I had a kid- and I think shortchanging my health isn't fair to the kid that might be burdened with a sick parent, or even orphaned. Also, after having taken care of my goddaughters, I realized that I could very well be happy either way, kids or no kids. Also, I get stressed enough whenever I've worked with kids- about the kids I care about. when i tutored kids through college, I always worried about all of the kids I tutored. I don't want to live a life of stress, because i take the things that I do out of passion very seriously, and that's just how I respond to things.

So, take everything into account- and yeah, I've decided on child-free. If I change my mind, it will be in the form of fostering older teens, but absolutely no kids of my own, biological or otherwise. At this point, even fostering is incredibly unlikely.

I can say for a fact that not wanting kids have in some ways eased incredible amounts of stress for myself. I'm over 30, and the window for my best chance of fertility is closing down. I know many women who actually make really bad choices because they want a baby- and they end up hastening a choice (finding a compatible partner) that they should have taken more time and care to find. On the downside, i refuse to get into a relationship with a man that wants kids- so it does limit my choices of men.
But all decisions have their shortcomings, and I'm very happy with the decisions I've made.

AlexxaHex
05-20-2007, 12:40 AM
*sigh*

Good-night to this thread. I've said all I can and I need to save my energy for more important things.

Lysondra
05-20-2007, 01:53 AM
About fricken time.



"Why are you a Satanist? Tell me why you think Satan is awesome and the best and Christians suck dick...but please don't flame this thread..."

Because, y'know, we totally said, "And talk about why you hate any and all parents and why they suck balls and why we're gonna lynch 'em... yeah that's it"

We just said 'share. your. experiences.'

That's. it.

velvet
05-20-2007, 02:05 AM
look you guys this thread has only been around this long as rhia is not on as much .please im asking in the best way i can to let this thread die. this has become very ugly. since i cant lock this let it go. thanks so much

velvet

aussiepunkshocker
05-20-2007, 02:21 AM
Yeah some real knotted knickers too :yes: Makes me laugh ;D :seesaw:




Wow, a whole 22 pages of bickering has been racked up. :no:

flickad
05-20-2007, 02:48 AM
Actually, no I didn't. I was referring to some posters, not all.

Yes, anyone who found xdamage's posts offensive. I see no basis for that accusation, considering just how patronising some of the things he said were.

christian211
05-20-2007, 07:14 AM
VERY interesting story on 20/20 tonight...

"Is it a social taboo to say that raising children bores you? Do you secretly hate having to read the same bedtime stories to your children over and over again? What about having to go to their music recital, all three nights?

For most moms, it is considered inappropriate to express boredom with these natural motherly duties, but freelance journalist Helen Kirwin-Taylor is one mom who isn't afraid to break those taboos."

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3176190&page=1


Yes, very interesting and also true for myself. At times it is quite tedious and boring raising kids, bordering on mindnumbing, sometimes. That's a reason to not have kids;D

High_Heel_Lover
05-20-2007, 07:20 AM
I did not read the entire thing, sorry it's quiet long but having children is a very huge thing and it is a personal choice, I don't hold it against anyone who wants to wait or never have children. It's their body, their life not my resposibility so why would I be all "how awful, no children!"

I am a mother and it is very hard, VERY HARD!!!! I have my good and bad days and I lovemy kids very much but there are days I say "do I REALLY love them?" I am very hard on myself when it comes to parenting.

Anyway live your life, it's yours and if and when you do decide to have children I would be happy to let you vent with me if you need to :D

christian211
05-20-2007, 07:31 AM
Deleting- nothing bad

christian211
05-20-2007, 07:37 AM
Edited-nothing bad said

Chrissy68
05-20-2007, 12:55 PM
well i read about half of this thread so far, it is ridiculously long. but my childfreedom is still around ebcause i'm just not ready. i think i will be someday soon. i always dreamt about having kids but to have them too soon is a major mistake i dont want to make. i want to have my life in order, marry and settle down with said hubby and learn how we are with one another before throwing kids into the equation. i think that a waiting period of 3-5 years after i marry will be in order before i have any kids.

i love kids. i think they are great, and i really respect those of you who say you dont want them for whatever reason. i think it's good to know where you stand on the issue. and there are so so so many unwanted children out there that it makes my heart ache so i applaud those who straight up say they dont want them. as for the others who cant get it... well, not everybody is into the same thing.. chocolate is not for everyone, vanilla either. sometimes people choose strawberry. maybe that metaphor is too glib but... i dont like how some ppl seemed to approach this topic.

AlexxaHex
05-20-2007, 05:35 PM
About fricken time.




Because, y'know, we totally said, "And talk about why you hate any and all parents and why they suck balls and why we're gonna lynch 'em... yeah that's it"

We just said 'share. your. experiences.'

That's. it.

It would be SOOOO nice if you would give me the same courtesy (i.e. IGNORE) that I have given you. I could go off on a number of your posts and threads but choose not to. Please don't speak to me or about me anymore.

Lysondra
05-20-2007, 05:37 PM
I kinda ignored you for a damn long time but you kept coming back. I ignore you in other threads, trust me... even when I have nice things to say.

AlexxaHex
05-20-2007, 05:38 PM
Only I wasn't talking TO you. Just leave me alone, please.

Mastridonicus
05-20-2007, 05:40 PM
So this thread went down the toilet...

HEY.... LOOK OUTSIDE!


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jonathan.taylor1/truffle_shuffle.gif

ExoticEngineer
05-20-2007, 06:02 PM
Mast, what the hell is that?????

Yah. This one took a turn for the worse....and it started off so interesting too.

Like Thumper's mommmy always says "If you aint got nuthin nice to say...don't say nuthin at all."

Or something like that.

Damn Mast, that's just, too sexy for words!

Mastridonicus
05-20-2007, 06:08 PM
I figure, at this point, nothing positive or educational is being shared, and it's all defense. Everyone is defending themselves so much, no one realizes that no one is even on the offensive anymore soooo


Mast is on the offensive.

With the Truffle Shuffle.

From Goonies.

ME CHUNK.

AND THE CUTEST PUSSY PIC EVER!

http://www.jonco48.com/blog/catpoolhole.jpg

Mastridonicus
05-20-2007, 06:09 PM
OOOOOOO BUUUUSTED


http://www.jonco48.com/blog/kid_20and_20woman_small.jpg

ExoticEngineer
05-20-2007, 06:15 PM
No THIS is the cutest pussy pic......
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/64/nicepussyxo2.jpg