View Full Version : Who here is Childfree, and why?
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Lysondra
05-13-2007, 05:32 AM
Children cost $250k by the time they're 18, Vee. That's where the kid is in that picture. You invested it into property. ;)
DylanAngel
05-13-2007, 05:32 AM
I feel like I'm there with all of you, because I am now CHOOSING to not breed again. I haven't had a child in almost 20 years. Been there done that.
But, fast forward to relationship with much younger and childless man. The freaking pressure is on me, at 40, to have a child.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Funny thing is, I almost let them get to me. But now, it's my choice to not have one. It was HIS decision to get involved with an older woman.
And his parents really try to do a number on me. I'VE DONE IT ALREADY! And it wasn't so freaking great the first time around either. I should give up the rest of my life so that these people can have an heir?
Not to mention that with the new ruling of not being able to abort in late term scares me. What if they don't find anything is wrong until later in the term? I'm supposed to spend my twilight years raising a child that is disadvantaged? And who is going to take care of him/her when I go, which could be sooner than later at this stage of the game.
Sorry this was so long. It's just that I've been getting mondo pressure lately from the future in-laws and I'm sick of it.
I want to enjoy my life. It's my turn now. If I want to be around babies, I'll just wait for my daughter to have them (she wants to eventually). This way I can spoil them and give them the hell back!
christian211
05-13-2007, 06:43 AM
Jaizaine, she actually really did a very nice thing for us: She showed us exactly how annoying, intolerant, illogical, and rude entitlemoos are. She's showing us a fairly good example of some of the people who we Childfree have to deal with. She shows that she feels that certain requests and rules don't apply to her, that motherhood gives her special privileges to impose on others. Without people like her, we wouldn't be able to appreciate how wonderful moms like aussiepunkshocker, AlexxaHexx, and Sunshine73 are.
You'll have to excuse me if I'm a little raw from hearing terms like "fucktrophies" being thrown around in the past. That's fine. This thread was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I'd appreciate the name calling to cease. Seriously, it's like mob mentality around here.
GoldCoastGirl
05-13-2007, 07:17 AM
Children cost $250k by the time they're 18, Vee. That's where the kid is in that picture. You invested it into property. ;)
I heard with the cost of private schooling (and all those associated costs) plus feeding, clothing and everything else it is more like $1 million these days to raise a child from zero to 18 years of age. It's 250k if you go the cheap route :D and you are correct... that 250k was spent in property and/or other investments.
Those other investments are risks and cost just like a child however unlike a child I can sell them ;D
hardkandee
05-13-2007, 07:34 AM
I heard with the cost of private schooling (and all those associated costs) plus feeding, clothing and everything else it is more like $1 million these days to raise a child from zero to 18 years of age. It's 250k if you go the cheap route :D and you are correct... that 250k was spent in property and/or other investments.
And you can't just cut them off at their 18th birthday. Then you get to pay for a college education anywhere from $50,000-$300,000! :O
Mastridonicus
05-13-2007, 07:56 AM
It's funny, I love the assuredness I feel when I TELL someone that I am 100% sure.
My ex wife used to tell me how horrible I was for not wanting kids, and that I wanted our relationship to stay broken because I did not want kids. My whole family, for a while, supported and agreed that I would not be a good father. More importantly, I didn't want kids.
But, I also can't tell the future.
What I did learn, is that I know I didn't want kids with her, and in the repeating presence of the RIGHT woman for this sort of thing, the idea of raising a child together sounds like a fun and exciting adventure in all it's ups and downs. Whereas with most I feel like having a kid would be planning and I would be afraid of all the mistakes....a few women make me feel, that not only would everything be O.K. no matter what, but doing this with this person would be an experience.
Either way, I'm childfree, and I really don't think about it. I love love love kids though. There is sooooo much to do with kids. Heee got a neighbor that sits on his porch with his X-Men figures and I play with him cause his big nerd dad is a big football nerd and doesn't know anything about em! :D
dollyrocker
05-13-2007, 08:02 AM
I'm childfree because to me kid would be a financial burden - one I'm not willing to bear! I love kids and would love to have some one day, but I'm in no rush.
aussiepunkshocker
05-13-2007, 08:06 AM
Well you could sell your child, but of course property is the legal and more profitable option ;D
Thats not really funny is it...
I couldnt really care less about the money side of things - thats just how I am though. I doubt I would have saved or invested large amounts if I wasnt a parent - lots of child free people dont and plenty of people with kids still do very well financially. I do think that its a very good point though!!!!!!!!!!!
The funny thing about this thread is that its making me appreciate being a parent much more. No I will never do it again but there are definatly lots of good things about being a mum and so many of the things listed here for reasons of not wanting to have kids dont seem like a big deal to me at all.
Also I look at sme of the things some women who dont have or want kids are doing with their lives or wanting to do and I think "I could never commit myself to something like that!" or "surely having a child would be an easier option?!" so its funny that way too. :)
Like Dylan I relate to the thread though. I hope I dont ever fall in love with somone who has no children and wants them because Im not doing it again.
I feel so lucky that Ive come out of it once (well almost, lol) unscathed with no bitterness or regrets. I dont know that i would a second time around.
I am the most impatient person on the planet and not a nurturing motherly homely type, thats my main reason for not wanting any more kids.
I heard with the cost of private schooling (and all those associated costs) plus feeding, clothing and everything else it is more like $1 million these days to raise a child from zero to 18 years of age. It's 250k if you go the cheap route :D and you are correct... that 250k was spent in property and/or other investments.
Those other investments are risks and cost just like a child however unlike a child I can sell them ;D
aussiepunkshocker
05-13-2007, 08:11 AM
In Australia - students can get a loan. Although of course there is the option of parents paying for their kids etc.
And you can't just cut them off at their 18th birthday. Then you get to pay for a college education anywhere from $50,000-$300,000! :O
Samantha Coyle
05-13-2007, 08:18 AM
There are plenty of child-supportive websites, forums, threads, etc out there. Why can't we Childfree have ours too?
Hey, good news, we do!!
www.nokidding.net (http://www.nokidding.net)
Here's the one for my area, Austin, TX: http://www.austinnokidding.com/
Darcy Foxx
05-13-2007, 08:20 AM
Well you could sell your child, but of course property is the legal and more profitable option ;D
i was gonna make that joke but thought it might upset someone heheh ;)
cameron_keys
05-13-2007, 08:21 AM
Having it all for me means:
* A successful animal based business such as a vet clinic providing me with a stable, secure (enough) income. Thus I feel productive. I like being "in business".
* Income as well as assets thru my investments - property investments, off-shore investments.
* Being able to afford without any stress all my living expenses as well as the mortgage on a nice acerage property - house and some decent space around me not just a small backyard.
* Being able to devote myself to being a foster carer for kittens, puppies, cats and dogs especially pallative care.... as well as a native wildlife rehabilitor for wombats and various other natives.
Yup. That is what "having it all" is for me.
Now. Where do children fit into this picture? There isn't any room nor do I want to budge and make room. Hell no! ;D
^^I want all that too!!!
I might have to move to Australia....
hardkandee
05-13-2007, 08:22 AM
In Australia - students can get a loan. Although of course there is the option of parents paying for their kids etc.
Yeah, loans are an option, but then you've got a kid with 6-figure debt! Plus, in the US, parental income is still figured into the equation when the government figures out the "family contribution."
redvelvetrose
05-13-2007, 08:41 AM
eta: i wouldn't hestitate for a second to abort a fetus. It is a parasite and still remains a parasite til the day it dies. We are all parasites to a certain extent...
LOL that's what I've always said. A fetus is a parasite, sucking the nutrients, energy, and good looks (j/k) from the mother.
I liked your rant about the global and environmental impact of having children. Seriously. I wish more people would think about that before producing so many children. Human beings can be incredibly selfish sometimes. Or maybe all the time.
redvelvetrose
05-13-2007, 08:57 AM
Perhaps these entitlemoos need to consider that 'having it all' may mean different things to different people. We all have our individual values and desires, and to some people, children may not be a part of that 'all'
Ya know what "having it all" means to me? It means: having a fulfilling career in which I can support myself, having a fulfilling love life and sex life, and being able to spend my time and money on myself or how I see fit. In other words, NOT HAVING KIDS.
I just don't see any reason at all for me to want kids.
And PS: "entitlemoo". Teehee, what a funny word!
Ah, I love this thread... so interesting!
Sinder
05-13-2007, 09:05 AM
Right now I am seriously "on the fence" about having children. I grew always wanting to someday be a mom, but now, it just doesn't fit my lifestyle. For now, I choose not to have children.
I see the rights of parents being taken away more and more, and with all the wild disrespectful kids/teens there are it makes me weary.
Isolabella
05-13-2007, 09:18 AM
I'm 34 and just have never had that biological urge to reproduce. Like Darcy, I didn't play with dolls as a child. As the only child of my mother, I was concerned she wanted grandchildren. As it turns out, she knew I wouldn't want children before I did.
redvelvetrose
05-13-2007, 09:18 AM
I see the rights of parents being taken away more and more, and with all the wild disrespectful kids/teens there are it makes me weary.
Maybe it's just me, but, has anyone noticed that kids these days are more "special", "precious", and bratty than they probably were a hundred years ago? It seems like in the past, people had children because it's what you were supposed to do, they wanted to spread their genes, if living on a farm it meant more hands to work, and it meant that someone would take care of you when you're older. People raised and loved their kids, but they weren't as spoiled as kids these days are! Kids obeyed and respected their parents. Nowadays, we put so much emphasis on raising kids and getting only the best for your kids. Each child born is "special" and "amazing". When I look at it on a smaller scale, yes everybody is unique blah blah blah, but when I look at it globally.... let's see, 6 billion people and counting? No one's really "special". Some people need to stop acting like their baby is the most important thing on the planet.
I'm not saying every parent is like that. There are still level-headed, well rounded parents out there (Aussie I'm talking about you! :) .). But these days, that seems not as common as it used to be.
Hatshepsut
05-13-2007, 09:19 AM
You'll have to excuse me if I'm a little raw from hearing terms like "fucktrophies" being thrown around in the past. That's fine. This thread was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I'd appreciate the name calling to cease. Seriously, it's like mob mentality around here.
We'll stop when you stop, and you're welcome to stop anytime. The more you piss and moan and carry on, the more you confirm your entitlemoo status. You have repeatedly unsolicitingly imposed on us, despite requests to stop and an upfront disclaimer that you blatantly chose to ignore. Your victim mentality pisses me off. You're like those Christians who feel threatened by all these books on atheism ands scream bloody murder despite the fact that statistically, Christians and Christian books far outnumber atheists and atheist books.
As for you're excuse of, "I'm lashing out because I'm mad," I think that you feel entitled to have your emotional diarrhea, and that you are taking everything as a personal insult. It has been stated that we don't hate moms, we hate entitlemoos like you who feel no qualms about imposing their unwanted opinions on others. Just becaue you are a mom does not mean that you have special privileges. Seriously, go away. You're annoying. Also, if you were secure about your parenting abilities, I'm sure that you wouldn't be protesting so much.
Hatshepsut
05-13-2007, 09:27 AM
I feel like I'm there with all of you, because I am now CHOOSING to not breed again. I haven't had a child in almost 20 years. Been there done that.
But, fast forward to relationship with much younger and childless man. The freaking pressure is on me, at 40, to have a child.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Funny thing is, I almost let them get to me. But now, it's my choice to not have one. It was HIS decision to get involved with an older woman.
And his parents really try to do a number on me. I'VE DONE IT ALREADY! And it wasn't so freaking great the first time around either. I should give up the rest of my life so that these people can have an heir?
Not to mention that with the new ruling of not being able to abort in late term scares me. What if they don't find anything is wrong until later in the term? I'm supposed to spend my twilight years raising a child that is disadvantaged? And who is going to take care of him/her when I go, which could be sooner than later at this stage of the game.
Sorry this was so long. It's just that I've been getting mondo pressure lately from the future in-laws and I'm sick of it.
I want to enjoy my life. It's my turn now. If I want to be around babies, I'll just wait for my daughter to have them (she wants to eventually). This way I can spoil them and give them the hell back!
Good for you for standing up to his baby rabies and not succumbing to the, "You are worth the contents of your uterus as the vessel to my heir." Women like you are the most likely to get their tubal ligations reversed, or spend ungodly amounts on fertility treatments that result in a set of fuckeduplets (huge litters of multiple births in which most of them have serious conditions due to crowding and premature birth). Thank you for not being shortsighted enough to get yourself and an innocent child chin-deep into it.
PaigeDWinter
05-13-2007, 09:57 AM
If this thread is really meant to be a non-flamey discussion, I'd like to request the refraining of using terms such as "moo" and "breeder". "Mother" and "parent" are a lot less demeaning and would make for a less flame-ready thread.
DylanAngel
05-13-2007, 09:57 AM
Good for you for standing up to his baby rabies and not succumbing to the, "You are worth the contents of your uterus as the vessel to my heir." Women like you are the most likely to get their tubal ligations reversed, or spend ungodly amounts on fertility treatments that result in a set of fuckeduplets (huge litters of multiple births in which most of them have serious conditions due to crowding and premature birth). Thank you for not being shortsighted enough to get yourself and an innocent child chin-deep into it.
He's actually pretty good with it since he gets to be Stepdad to my daughter and will be Grandpa to her future children.
It's his parents that give me the most trouble. I'm frustrated because he just won't stand up to them and tell them that it was HIS decision to get involved with an older woman, knowing full well that children were probably not possible.
Hatshepsut
05-13-2007, 10:17 AM
My uncle is Childfree for the worst reason: he doesn't trust his wife with kids. My aunt is crazy. She's stranded on Planet Me, I swear that she's Borderline Personality Disorder, she's irrational, illogical, and is prone to roller coaster fits of emotional diarrhea. She lives in her own world of Chicken Soup for the Soul books and can't face reality. I love her, but her sulky tantrums are famous in the family.
When they first got married, they were trying to have a baby, and even looked into fertility treatments because my aunt was infertile (Thank you, Natural Selection). They took me in when I was 16, so they got a taste of what parenting is like. My uncle didn't like what he saw. I mean, she's bad enough with the dogs. If she was a parents, she'd be the type who doesn't believe in punishment, just rewarding good behavior. She'd also still have her emotional roller-coaster. She's too selfish to have a kid. She loves having her misery moments and wallowing in it. Dogs and teens could fend for themselves during this, but a kid? Nope. My uncle recently told me all this, and that he knows that he'd end up doing most of the parenting and a lot of marital friction would be catalyzed by the kid. He told me that around the time they took me in, he quit consenting to the fertility treatments because he saw how selfish and immature she is. Hey, at least he realizes.
From what I've seen of my aunt, she doesn't really want the responsibility of a kid, it's all baby rabies and a feeling of emptiness of not having this pregnancy/birth/baby experience. My uncle agrees, as her wannahaveababygottahaveababyletshaveababyNOW attitude is based on fantasy, and she refuses to get psychological help for her issues, even for a kid. I swear, my uncle doesn't have a wife, he has a kid.
SnakeBabe
05-13-2007, 10:21 AM
I do not have or want children.
My husband and I love our freedom. We enjoy the ability to go where we want, when we want and do as we please.
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria
Hatshepsut
05-13-2007, 10:25 AM
No kids for me.
The only time it remotely appeals to me is when I feel it would be nice to brainwash my own little army. For purely selfish reasons of course. Otherwise, I don't like children nor do I want to be around them.
I have been part of that brainwashed army, and that's another reason I'm Childfree.
Cult leader David Koresh impregnated several females and trained the children from an early age to be his army. After the Waco incident, officials found plenty of seriously fucked up kids who knew about scary amounts of weaponry and violence. People recoil in horror at this, as innocent children were being used for some idealist's selfish motives. However, I see this all the time. It's not nearly to this degree, but I see Biblethumpers who completely shut off their kids to the world, homeschool them to believe that Jesus's love is the only thing that matters, and pretty much ensure that their kids will be hitting a brick wall once they get out into the real world. I see parents, especially Asian ones, who pretty much give their kids no choice but to go to Harvard to be a doctor or a lawyer, and may even disown them if they do not meet these expectations. I see parents who are so obsessed with their image that when someone has a problem, the parents get mad that the apple-cart has been upset rather than try to help the kid.
Kids are not programmable manifestations of your own idealisms, THEY ARE PEOPLE. I'm not saying parents should let kids do whatever they want, but there is something seriously fucked up if love is conditional based on stuff that should be choices, like career paths. I seriously hate people who have kids so they can mold their ideals into pliable humans who they have complete domain over. It's one thing to guild them and instill them with their morals, it's another thing to have kids just so the parents can have complete domain over someone and breed their little fantasy world. Who pays? The kids.
As aforementioned, my dad had all these ideals, and planned all of our futures out. His plan was to have smart, obedient, Christian, Asian children. He was very upset when things didn't stick to his fantasies. Not surprisingly, I later found out that my dad has a lot of regrets about his own life. He didn't start college until he was 22. He had kind of a fucked up childhood, and said that he wanted to protect others from having to go through that same shit. Basically, he had kids in order to fix his own unresolved issues. I see that all the time too. I see teen girls deliberately have babies because they want somebody to love them, and that they'll provide the baby with all the things that they never had. This is not good. People have to fix themselves before they try to fix others, or they will not be good providers.
RoseWhite
05-13-2007, 11:30 AM
I am not a mom yet, but someone who does want children (one at least, possibly two, but that'll be resource-dependent), and wants them very much, who TOTALLY supports those who have made a different choice. Just like the moms in here who have noted their respect for the childfree decision - I'm not a mom yet, but I've always seen this as part of my life at some point. I have even lost TWO wonderful relationships with great men because they didn't want children; it's just not something you can compromise on - you can't have half a kid, and getting a dog instead is just . . .well, not.
I do think so much abuse and neglect could be avoided if those who really didn't want children didn't feel pressured (or even forced) in some cases, and aside from the effect it would have on the unwanted child, I think it's ridiculous to resign previously happy people who cherish their freedom into a life of undesired responsibility & financial sacrifice. As the bumper sticker goes: "Every child a wanted child".
Also, I completely agree that judging those who know themselves well enough to know that they wouldn't be good parents and/or wouldn't enjoy parenting is RIDICULOUS. There are all kinds of terrible reasons for people to have children (teen mothers who want something to love them, for just one example), which have been eloquently discussed here by so many thoughtful childfree posters.
Okay, with that, I do have just two things to comment on, and I'll do so in my next post, as this is getting a little epic already. ;D BE WARNED, it's a long one . . .
RoseWhite
05-13-2007, 11:33 AM
In NO WAY is this a judgement on the childfree choice. At all. But there are a few points/arguments that have come up in this thread that I've seen and heard come up before. The reason I bring them up is because they are the only points that step outside the realm of personal freedom and become judgements on those who HAVE chosen to breed.
One is the population argument. The world IS getting dangerously overpopulated. This IS a concern of mine, so I bristle a little when childfree folks bring this up as if people who raise small families are just irresponsible and apathetic on this. It is a huge concern, that's why I would absolutely be faithful to "Reproductive Rate". No more than two biological offspring for each couple. One 'replacement' for each means no contribution to overpopulation. *I* might just have one biological child and then adopt more if I decide to have a bigger family. (I am adopted myself, so I do crave that biological connection, call me weak and human if you will.) I personally think it's very irresponsible to give birth to huge biological familes, but there is a difference. You can reproduce conscientiously. I only bring this up because saying or even implying that ALL breeders DON'T care about this issue steps outside of personal choice & becomes a judgement.
The second is a little more vague, but I've heard it from many many people over the years. "I don't want to bring a child into a world like this". I believe one person in this thread said that they considered it "abuse" to bring children into this world. (If THAT'S not a judgement of parents, I don't know what is.)
It is a fucked-up world, in so many ways. I see this point. I've even felt this way when in a cynical mood. But I believe, in my heart of hearts, that the ONLY way to even START changing the world IS by raising different children. We can leave it up to society, leave it up to the schools, hope that the goverment will take care of it, but those institutions will never change unless they are populated by different kinds of people.
I may be too idealistic, thinking that by raising a couple of loving, caring kids who care about the world and aren't caught up in rigid gender and ethnic stereotypes, just for example, will make any kind of impact at all. But I can try. It won't be easy, either, and I may not succeed. But I can try. And I want to.
If anything, the above supports the childfree choice. If you don't want to be a truly conscientious parent who works hard at every aspect of their child's development (including copious amounts of love), then being forced to bear children against their will contributes to the ills of the world.
Just to sum up, I 100% appreciate the spirit of this thread, and agree that "entitlemoos" need to chill out & not judge choices that have nothing to do with them. I just had to point those two areas where a little judgement (probably unintentional) can start to creep in from the childfree side.
By the way, HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY!!! (Just had to note the irony.)
Hatshepsut
05-13-2007, 12:32 PM
^I've read that it's not overpopulation of the world that's the problem, it's overcrowding of areas. Just look at India and other poor countries that are extremely densely populated. There's no steady access to birth control, so parents can't help but crank out several kids. It's also a means of survival for them. They don't have Social Security, pensions, etc. The poorer they are, the more kids they need to support themselves. In those countries, children are a financial asset rather than a financial liability over here. Kids can start making money at early ages, and pay themselves off pretty quick.
Having fewer kids is only the answer to a point. When you get down to the 1-child rule, you start having 1-2-4 crises (1 kid, 2 parents, 4 grandparents).
cameron_keys
05-13-2007, 12:33 PM
I just had to point those two areas where a little judgement (probably unintentional) can start to creep in from the childfree side.
I agree. While I do think this is a crappy world right now to bring children into...when has it NOT been? Seriously...there has been and will always be wars, hunger, disease, etc.... If everyone waited for the world to be perfected before having kids we would have died out centuries ago!
Overpopulation...I'm on the fence. I Do think that 2 children allowed(much like China) is a good idea, however I bristle at any thought that the government has any say over my body. I just wish people would be smart enough to figure this out on their own and that every uber-religious family who thinks that a woman should be a baby factory popping out 8,9 17 children would THINK...that ever irresponsible guy out there who is "baby daddy" to who knows how many kids by who knows how many mons would THINK...that every chick who has kids hoping it will make her man stay, or mature would THINK.
But thinking isnt most peoples strong points unfortunately.
I weep when I think of the amount of children out there who need good homes and wont get them because people woould rather continue to breed rather then help a child in need. Why cant you do both like suggested above...??
Hatshepsut
05-13-2007, 12:43 PM
^As long as there's a good steady population of Childfree, and as long as too many women don't make clown cars out of their vaginas, I doubt that overpopulation will be a huge problem. A lot of countries are at a plateau, or even negative birth rates, such as Japan. It's countries like India and Ireland that concern me.
Modern birth control has only been around for about half a decade. The big thing that made populations explode was the fact the modern medicine was making people live longer, more babies were born, more women survived childbirth, and these babies were able to grow up healthy enough to have more babies. However, birth control is becoming so mainstream, people are waiting longer to have kids, and kids are getting to be so much more expensive to raise that more people are having less kids. I read that 50 years ago, 4 kids were the average. Now it's 2. As more progress is made, I forsee plateaus.
Minette
05-13-2007, 01:48 PM
I'm on the no-desire-for-kids boat as well. When I was a wee thing, my dolls got neglected and lay around naked while my stuffed animals wore their clothing. As soon as I was old enough to understand that I didn't have to have children, I knew I didn't want them. And I too, got the, 'Oh you'll change your mind." I think people are finally starting to realize that maybe I won't. One of my friends became an aunt when we were in college and the first time I went to her house she dragged me into the baby's room to see her. My reaction was, "Oh look, there's a kitty on the other bed!". She was cross. I just seem to lack the maternal instinct for anything devoid of fur and whiskers, and I'm so glad. I think having a kid is the biggest responsibility you can have - my parents put a lot of work, time, and money into giving me an amazing life, and I appreciate it. I have no interest in doing the same for another generation. I'd rather spend my future money and time on a good life for my future partner and me. Plus, yeah, pregnancy creeps me out. Lots of women seem to love it, and I'm very glad for them, but I have that, "Eeeek, a parasite feeling about it." Finally, I'd be a terrible mother - I'd be the Alanis Morrisette 'I'll love you if you're perfect' kind of mom. Misery and unhappiness for all. I'd hate to inflict that on a kid, not to mention my lack of happiness in its existance. You know what's super-cool though? My sexual orientation totally supports my decision! No birth control for me - if I get unexpectedly pregnant, than something very, very strange is going on, and we've all got more to worry about than whether I'd be a good parent - things like - 'Is the apocalypse coming?' and 'What happens if someone aborts the second coming of Christ?' :D (I'm betting on getting instantly smited right there in the doctor's office. :hot:)
Lysondra
05-13-2007, 03:47 PM
You'll have to excuse me if I'm a little raw from hearing terms like "fucktrophies" being thrown around in the past. That's fine. This thread was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I'd appreciate the name calling to cease. Seriously, it's like mob mentality around here.
What the hell? I apologized and said I was over the top for that!
Lysondra
05-13-2007, 03:52 PM
If this thread is really meant to be a non-flamey discussion, I'd like to request the refraining of using terms such as "moo" and "breeder". "Mother" and "parent" are a lot less demeaning and would make for a less flame-ready thread.
Moo stands for Mother Obsessed With Offspring. It's referring to mothers who are so ga-ga over their own children they can't see past their entitlement. I think it's fitting when used in the proper structure.
I'm sure you knew it actually had nothing to do with cows.
cinammonkisses
05-13-2007, 03:54 PM
Honestly, I'm childless right now cause I'm to hawt to be some dudes "baby momma" lol...
aussiepunkshocker
05-13-2007, 04:02 PM
If it has nothing to do with cows, then why isnt the term "mowo"? /:O
Moo stands for Mother Obsessed With Offspring. It's referring to mothers who are so ga-ga over their own children they can't see past their entitlement. I think it's fitting when used in the proper structure.
I'm sure you knew it actually had nothing to do with cows.
Lysondra
05-13-2007, 04:04 PM
Since when does anybody use with/of/to in abbreviations?
Why isn't is PFTETOA?
aussiepunkshocker
05-13-2007, 04:07 PM
I believe its optional :)
Since when does anybody use with/of/to in abbreviations?
Why isn't is PFTETOA?
Lysondra
05-13-2007, 04:08 PM
Well then, MOWO just sounds silly. :P
aussiepunkshocker
05-13-2007, 04:09 PM
Its no more stupider than "mofo"
mermaidnz
05-13-2007, 04:13 PM
nobody has mentioned the people who cant have kids, but want them.
id totally have a kid for someone else, if it brought as much joy to them as alot of mothers say they get once4 they are a parent.
but for now, ill just spoil the hell out of my friends baby with dior and gucci haha
GoldCoastGirl
05-13-2007, 04:34 PM
Moo stands for Mother Obsessed With Offspring. It's referring to mothers who are so ga-ga over their own children they can't see past their entitlement. I think it's fitting when used in the proper structure.
I'm sure you knew it actually had nothing to do with cows.
:-[:-[ I thought it did!
Yeah there are ALOT of names of organisations etc that don't have the "with" and such like within the abbreviated name. People wouldn't recognise PETA as the full FftEToA ... I know I wouldn't. I would be .. "ah .. what does all those jumbled letters mean?".
It's a convienance thing.
GoldCoastGirl
05-13-2007, 04:41 PM
One is the population argument. The world IS getting dangerously overpopulated. This IS a concern of mine, so I bristle a little when childfree folks bring this up as if people who raise small families are just irresponsible and apathetic on this. It is a huge concern, that's why I would absolutely be faithful to "Reproductive Rate". No more than two biological offspring for each couple. One 'replacement' for each means no contribution to overpopulation. *I* might just have one biological child and then adopt more if I decide to have a bigger family. (I am adopted myself, so I do crave that biological connection, call me weak and human if you will.) I personally think it's very irresponsible to give birth to huge biological familes, but there is a difference. You can reproduce conscientiously. I only bring this up because saying or even implying that ALL breeders DON'T care about this issue steps outside of personal choice & becomes a judgement.
I already feel that there are plenty of children already in this world to offer "one replacement for each parent" ... it's called adoption and/or foster care. I do not see the argument where you actually need to breed to have those "replacements".
Also, as you are well aware since you admitted you are adopted, you can make a difference ... a huge difference.. in many childrens lives if you give them what they, unfortunately, weren't given at birth .... LOVE.
In re those people who want to breed yet natural selection has told them NO ... once again, adoption and foster care. I still don't see the need for people to breed when there are plenty enough children on this earth who require a 'good' home.
It's the same reason I'm all for de-sexing of all cats and dogs. Just like human off-spring, there are just not enough QUALITY homes for them (I'm speaking about "animal companions" such as cats and dogs) and hence the reason (just like I am with the cats and dogs) I always always always push for people to put adoption and/or fostering on the top of their list BEFORE breeding.
8)
GoldCoastGirl
05-13-2007, 05:03 PM
I went to that NO KIDDING website
YAY -- There is a BRISBANE group @ http://members.shaw.ca/nokiddingchapterone/06.htm
DylanAngel
05-13-2007, 05:03 PM
I still don't see the need for people to breed when there are plenty enough children on this earth who require a 'good' home.
8)
Because it's not always about just having children. Sometimes it's about loving someone and wanting to have a child borne out of that love. A child that is part of both of you and melds the history and blood of two families.
I am all for adoption. But, since I had a healthy reproductive system, why shouldn't I have one of my own? It's not about just raising a child. It's about the birth process as well.
Not to mention the fact that not everyone can adopt either. With my history of depression, they won't let me own a gun OR adopt a child.
Hatshepsut
05-13-2007, 05:32 PM
As much as I love the idea of adoption, I'm not sure if I could ever do it. Although I'd love to help out a kid, a lot of these kids have special needs. I've volunteered with kids, and my friend is a child psychologist, and we have both seen several adopted kids with severe issues. Even if you adopt them as babies, you don't know what you're getting. Many kids were abused, many have crappy genetics, many were exposed to all sorts of dangerous stuff while in utero. Don't get me wrong, a lot of adopted kids end up okay, but there are a lot of issues that need to be addressed, and most of the kids floating around have special needs like fetal alcohol syndrome, shaken babies, drug babies, failure to thrive babies, etc, and I know that I couldn't dedicate myself to such a heavy, needy cause. I am a future nurse and do a lot of that anyway, but I can also leave the heavy caring and responsibilities at work. Kids like that are 24/7 and are wholly dependent on you in every way.
I can understand people wanting to experience pregnancy and childbirth, and it is much quicker and easier to have your own kids than adopt. However, I do get very fucking sick when people spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on fertility treatments to have a litter of seriously fucked up kids that they can't afford to raise rather than one or two perfect brown kids who need a loving family.
DylanAngel
05-13-2007, 05:36 PM
However, I do get very fucking sick when people spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on fertility treatments to have a litter of seriously fucked up kids that they can't afford to raise rather than one or two perfect brown kids who need a loving family.
But, again that boils down to wanting to experience it for yourself. A feeling that is as strong in some people as your own on not wanting to have them.
Also, some people would rather adopt children of their own race. Makes for less intrusive questions and a more seamless life in some places. I can understand this as well.
I could imagine that it's difficult enough to have that talk with children, telling them they are adopted without other ignorant people stating the obvious for you.
It's just a personal decision. Not good or bad.
GoldCoastGirl
05-13-2007, 05:56 PM
The thing as someone who has chosen to be childfree (yet not childless) is that whilst people are all for the de-sexing of animals such as cats and dogs without question..... when it comes to the human (we are animals in the end)... oh no! Can't do that! WTF?
Anyway, I can understand to a certain extent the urge to breed as we are animals too just a different type of animal than the other animals that inhabit this planet. Therefore it can be instinctual for some people more than others.
In the end, each to their own huh?
Paris
05-13-2007, 06:17 PM
I decided that I didn't want kids in my mid twenties. I'd seen enough of my friends have kids to know that it wasn't for me. I'd likely be a very neglectful mother and figured that it was just better if I opted-out. I had my tubes tied ten years ago, and have not regretted it once.
I feel no bond to babies. I see other women coo over the new babies and ask to hold and cuddle the baby. When the mom asks me if I want to take the baby for a minute, I'll oblige if she is tired and needs a break, but won't take on the task for the sake of the task itself.
Yes, the planet is over populated. People are starving and dying of horrible diseases because of lack of water. We wouldn't have the global warming and pollution problems if there were half the number of people on the planet.
GoldCoastGirl
05-13-2007, 06:27 PM
Yes, the planet is over populated. People are starving and dying of horrible diseases because of lack of water. We wouldn't have the global warming and pollution problems if there were half the number of people on the planet.
All of us here in Australia should know very well about how the lack of water can affect things. I know where I am at (and alot of other regions) are on water restrictions. We consume so damn much and don't give nearly enough back to the environment to make it all "balanced".
redvelvetrose
05-13-2007, 06:51 PM
The thing as someone who has chosen to be childfree (yet not childless) is that whilst people are all for the de-sexing of animals such as cats and dogs without question..... when it comes to the human (we are animals in the end)... oh no! Can't do that! WTF?
That gets me too. After all, we ARE biologically classified as animals. But I guess as humans we're special simply because we can talk.
Or as a species, humans are just plain selfish.