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Deni
05-14-2007, 11:49 PM
And then, when you are a mother, ALL of your choices are suspect ALL THE TIME. Strangers don't want you to breastfeed. Strangers think you're abusive for feeding your child formula. Family members who disagree with your policy on shared sleep. Mothers-in-law who think you're just plain doing everything wrong. EVERYONE has an opinion on how your kid should be raised, on what kind of a mom you should be, and from what I've seen from the outside, it tends to be women who are the most vocal critics of other women.


This is a VERY good point. This is also why I've said that if Mox and I do ever decide to have a kid it won't be anywhere near here. I see the way my mom-in-law is treating my (mom-to-be) sis-in-law, and I don't like her supreme know-it-all attitude when it comes to this.

So, yet another reason I don't feel I'm mom material. I'd isolate myself from everyone because I'd seriously lash out if they told me I was doing something wrong or did something that I wouldn't want done with my kid. Especially the mom-in-law...there are some things we just could not see eye to eye on...

greenidlady1
05-15-2007, 12:46 AM
^^^ Interesting Greenlady. I have been told by almost every psychic / reader Ive seen that I am going to have two children. My second child is maked clearly on my palm too apparently as everytime I have my palm read they spot it. Funny though because I read palms too and I just cant see it... Maybe I just dont want to see it, Im not sure, lol.
Im determined not to have a second child though. (Although due to spiritual / reincarnation issues I do sometimes debate various senarios in my head of maybe.)
With readings you do still have the power to change your destiny alot of the time so it could well come true. On the other hand if you have doubts either conciously or subconsiously maybe your putting out the energy so as not to bring destiny to fruition.

Edited to add incase its of interest.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/Jowanna/figure181.gif

The child lines run through the relationship lines on the hand. Relationship lines are the horizontal ones shown in the diagramme (A) and B and C are the child lines. Boys usually show up as stronger lines whilst girls often are quite hard to see. (This diagramme looks like 2 boys to me, lol - from the same relationship.)

Some people have been known to study thes line so much they can even tell you what sort of problems your children are likely to have. (learning problems, development etc) This is delving into the scientific area of palmistry though.

Its not a totally accurate way of determining children though because abortions and miscarraiges can show up too although they are usually underdeveloped lines. Also other peoples children that you may be close to can show there too. Its also nice because adopted, step and fostered children show there.

Men have these lines also.

I have two parallel horizontal lines on my dominant hand but no vertical ones. So, this means I have two relationships in my lifetime and no children?

aussiepunkshocker
05-15-2007, 04:04 AM
Greenlady.
Yes, 2 meaningful relationships. (Casual ones are shown differently / elsewhere.) No children on the horizon it seems - sometimes lines will appear later as the lines on the hand can change somewhat in the course of time. Girl lines can be much fainter also, but it sounds like probably no children yes.

Lysondra
05-15-2007, 04:29 AM
My sybeeline thingy is my relationship and child line. What does that mean? That line covers all. D:

aussiepunkshocker
05-15-2007, 04:41 AM
I see this is turning into Jows palmistry thread, lol.

You mean your Simian lines (-:
I think you should have relationship lines above it / them but Ive seen so few Simian lines - especially on both hands Im not really sure. I would expect to see at least one relationship line between your Simian Line and the bottom of your little finger though if I was looking.

aussiepunkshocker
05-15-2007, 04:42 AM
And godammit, i want prints of photos of your hands LM!!! :-D

Lysondra
05-15-2007, 04:52 AM
Two really really really really faint lines. :(

aussiepunkshocker
05-15-2007, 04:59 AM
Relationship lines? Dont worry about the faintness, the lines on everyones hands are different in how dark or light they appear!
As far as relationships go too other areas of the hand may also come into things (-:

xdamage
05-15-2007, 06:02 AM
One last thing: Note that this is not in Ladies Only. And "Childfree" is not gender-specific. Yet we've had, what, 3 male contributors? 4? After all these years, the choice to become a mother or NOT become a mother is still suspect - and the strongest questioners are other women.

There are gender differences at play, but I think part of the reason you don't have more male contributors to this thread is that it was posted on the pink side, and more important, it quickly became emotionally charged rather then focusing on the issue. In part that's because the OP demanded that only those of like mind contribute, which is quite a demand to make in a public, open forum.

Ask the question over on the blue side, sans the the demand that only those who choose not have children contribute, and you may be surprised at the male responses.

cameron_keys
05-15-2007, 07:51 AM
It's sad that one side of an issue cant have an adult discussion about their choice. The other side just HAS to interject their unwanted opinions.
It's the same every time a passionate issue comes up. There are always some who refuse to respect others boundries and feel that they HAVE to make their opinion known.

I'm done here too. Some people in the world will never understand that what they say is offensive and ignorant.And I just dont want to subject myself to that ignorance any longer.

To the OP...sorry people couldnt respect your wishes. Sadly, it's to be expected though....

Mastridonicus
05-15-2007, 09:00 AM
We all should be able to make these choices freely by now - and SHOULD be able to keep those decisions to ourselves and not feel obligated to defend them to anyone. And yet here we still are, fighting amongst ourselves.

One last thing: Note that this is not in Ladies Only. And "Childfree" is not gender-specific. Yet we've had, what, 3 male contributors? 4? After all these years, the choice to become a mother or NOT become a mother is still suspect - and the strongest questioners are other women.


Very VERY powerful point here.

Bothers me that men are only ever forced to be a Financial contributer after being a seminal one. Seems Like that if the father wants to be a father, he still has to fight for his right.

I even catch myself asking more and more "Doesn't the Father help?" almost as if it's expected that he does less.

Looks like whether it's a free choice or thrust upon you, it's still a woman's choice to be a mother, and a father's choice to be a father. "Good" as an adjective will ALWAYS require work regardless of how or why you made the decision. Just sucks that it's all-to-often an after thought.

Mastridonicus
05-15-2007, 09:10 AM
It's sad that one side of an issue cant have an adult discussion about their choice. The other side just HAS to interject their unwanted opinions.
It's the same every time a passionate issue comes up. There are always some who refuse to respect others boundries and feel that they HAVE to make their opinion known.

I'm done here too. Some people in the world will never understand that what they say is offensive and ignorant.And I just dont want to subject myself to that ignorance any longer.

To the OP...sorry people couldnt respect your wishes. Sadly, it's to be expected though....

Keep in mind, the whole point of passion is to put blinders on and not see outside of it. We're all to use to it in a focus and controlled environ like cooking, or sexual activity, or getting to see that play...

When we're passionate about something that we believe, we are, by the fact that we're passionate about that conviction, EXCLUDED from being able to FULLY understand other people's passions if different in the same subject.

We may disagree with each other. But if we respect each other enough, we can respect what we're passionate about, even if the fundamental idea is different from our own. Seek to learn why, not denote.

Cameron: Just using your quote as the initiator of my thought, not saying you're doing anything one way or another.

xdamage
05-15-2007, 10:25 AM
When we're passionate about something that we believe, we are, by the fact that we're passionate about that conviction, EXCLUDED from being able to FULLY understand other people's passions if different in the same subject.

We may disagree with each other. But if we respect each other enough, we can respect what we're passionate about, even if the fundamental idea is different from our own. Seek to learn why, not denote.


Agreed.

I'd add too that this is effectively a public forum with a diverse group of people. It's simply not realistic on a public forum to start off a question with the demand that only those who agree with us respond. It just won't happen in a public forum without some pretty heavy handed moderation. Our sense of what is ignorant and offensive is often in the eye of the beholder, so who makes the call? I checked my contacts and I see that none of us has been appointed "the chosen one". The closest thing to it is the forum mods. All bow to the mods ;)

Besides, if we really want nothing but pure support and agreement then our choices are to demand the rest of the world to change and only speak when it pleases us (won't happen) or withdraw and limit our contacts to those who agree with us (doable, but not very enlightening, and ultimately very boring).

Dottie Rebel
05-15-2007, 11:56 AM
Besides, if we really want nothing but pure support and agreement then our choices are to demand the rest of the world to change and only speak when it pleases us (won't happen) or withdraw and limit our contacts to those who agree with us (doable, but not very enlightening, and ultimately very boring).

This borders on patronizing. No one wanted to withdraw from the world and start a childfree commune. In this particular situation, the OP wanted to hear from others of like mind about their diverse and varied perspectives on the topic. There are times for debate and there are times to compare notes with individuals who share your point of view. But only parents can have the latter here in peace.

By the way, I don't hate parents. I don't hate kids. And DylanAngel rocks. The end.

xdamage
05-15-2007, 01:13 PM
No one wanted to withdraw from the world and start a childfree commune.


This is effectively a public forum out here serving a diverse group of people from all over the world with a common interest in stripping, not in childfree living. When people participate in a world-wide forum they are effectively interacting with people from all over the world. My point was that people need to be aware that they don't own such a forum and they can either participate in world wide forums and understand that they don't get control everyone else's opinion, or they can withdraw to more private forums or groups.

Specifically the OP may well have to go to a forum that emphasizes childfree living if the OP only wants to her POVs that align with her own. A topic like childree living has little to with stripping except only vaguely, and by posting in the Lounge, in a diverse community, it's not realistic to expect everyone but who you want to post to STFU.



In this particular situation, the OP wanted to hear from others of like mind about their diverse and varied perspectives on the topic. There are times for debate and there are times to compare notes with individuals who share your point of view.


Yes, I understand what the OP wanted, but my point was that it's not a realistic expectation. I just look at what it is, and try to go from there. And the facts are that many people did chime in and so apparently it wasn't at all clear to everyone that they cannot and should not contribute. And one poster mentioned how come more men haven't spoken up in this thread and assumed that has to do with this is primarily a female choice. Whoa! No, the OP demands that we not even discuss "choice". The OP only wants to hear from those who have made the childless choice. The men may well have a lot to say, but it may not be what the OP wants to hear.

Look, I'm sure it was clear to the OP that she would have liked to discuss this topic and not have any dissenting opinions, we almost all would when we raise a topic of a controversial nature, and there is often a place for people to get affirmation and support from those of like mind, but what I'm saying is, the public lounge on a strip club oriented forum is not the place to demand no dissenting opinions on a topic like this.

You could start the next topic about almost anything, say gay life styles, or even the counter discussion of "who here has or is planning to have children" and the OPs of any of those topics can demand that only those who have aligning POVs post, but I don't see what the point would be in demanding such a thing. It won't happen, and demanding it just causes the topic to veer from the topic to attacking people for giving their opinions at all. It doesn't work so there is no point in repeating the same mistake in the future.

Paintbaby
05-15-2007, 02:28 PM
^^^^ In case you haven't noticed, a hell of a lot more than just stripping gets discussed in this forum. So, what, exactly, is your point? Hatshesput started a thread about a particular topic---is it really so hard to expect that people might stay on that particular topic, since it was so blatantly specific? Seems to me that dissention by the childfree would not have been welcome in a thread about the joys of motherhood--so why would the childfree be happy about dissention being voiced on the part of certain (not all--Aussi, DylanAngel and a few others were able to stay on topic and discuss their life experiences without acting all "hurtey" and making the thread about them) childed women here in a thread that had nothing to do with them? The topic of the thread was not "Childfree or childed?". ::)

And we really don't need the self-appointed voice of "male reason" to come in and calm down all the little ladies, which pretty much seems to be the point of your post. Try to be less condescending. The last thing this thread needs is more derailing, even if it is pretty much beaten to death--do you have a childfree lifestyle? Because that is what this thread is about, after all--not about clueing in all the folks here about the rules of the game when it comes to internet postings. Jeebus! (head*desk)

Dottie Rebel
05-15-2007, 03:25 PM
^^But we're so EMOTIONAL!! What would happen if a rational man with a big ol' brain didn't come in every once in a while and set things straight? Chaos, I tell you! It would be chaos!

AlexxaHex
05-15-2007, 03:25 PM
I don't think Xdamage is being condescending at all. I think you automatically get defensive of his opinion because he's male. Only this thread isn't in Ladies Only so his POV is just as welcome as anyone's.
Of course I was being condescending too because I didn't make the same choice or explain myself a thousand times over right away or completely feel the way you do at every point in my life. I'm sorry, but I came here to agree with most of you about some things and just share a personal feeling about the topic. My experiences were the only difference (my opinions change just like yours do) and therefore I am a patronizing moocow breeder with sagging tits and stretch marks. To tell me that mothers never get shit when they post here is bullshit. Oh and I'm narrow minded too....now let's add IGNORANT to the list. Awesome.

Excuse me, I have to go eat so I can be a healthy host for my fucktrophy.

Dottie Rebel
05-15-2007, 03:27 PM
^^No one said you were a moocow with saggy tits and stretch marks. If you want everyone to take what you say for your true intentions, please do the same for others.

Lysondra
05-15-2007, 03:34 PM
Moo - Mother Obsessed with Offspring. Not cow related at all. *sigh*

xdamage
05-15-2007, 03:40 PM
The last thing this thread needs is more derailing, even if it is pretty much beaten to death--do you have a childfree lifestyle? Because that is what this thread is about

The question and stipulations from the OP about how people must reply was flawed, and so of course the thread derailed. It was easy to see it was going to derail from the beginning, and it did. I'm am surprised nobody said anything, but I'm not surprised it derailed.

The problem with the question is that and stipulation is this... many people, including myself, have made the choice to be childfree at some point in our life, and often stick to that choice for many years. It's an easy and often logical choice to make when we are younger and have plenty of time ahead. We all have good reasons of course. And then at some point, we end up with a child, suddenly everything changes, and ... here is the important part ... it often turns out that no matter what we thought we were going to think or feel when we were childless and were absolutely sure it was the best choice, we suddenly find ourselves having a whole new set of feelings and thoughts we never imagined could be so intense. Eons of genetic drives kick in and the experience for some even can be as dramatic as the difference they between how they feel about sex (substitute "children") before and after puberty (substitute "after the child is born" for the analogy here).

This has nothing to do with being an entitlementmoo, and frankly I think the OP and those jumping on the ladies that are expressing an alternative opinion are not being logical at all, let alone being "reasonable"

What they are saying is they have experienced this from both sides, and having had both experiences, their eyes have been opened to something they couldnt have fully grasped until they lived both sides. To shut them out of the topic is plain out irrational. They have useful input to offer.

xdamage
05-15-2007, 03:55 PM
p.s. my own experience is similar to the women that had dissenting opinions here. There is simply no way to compare my childfree life with my post childlife using any criteria that made sense to me pre-child. Yes, I've given up a lot of freedoms, but I didn't have any real grasp of what the benefits and costs were until after the child was born and feelings and thoughts kicked in that I never imagined I might have. The freedoms are lost, but something intangible and indescribable is gained. There is no "thing" or "hobby" on this earth that ever can or will come close to how I feel about my children. Nothing, and I couldn't have even imagined it until it happened. And if that makes anyone who makes a childless uncomfortable, that's their problem, not mine. I'm not going to STFU about my experience just because it makes someone else uncomfy; it's not torture, it's just information.

Dottie Rebel
05-15-2007, 04:49 PM
^^You're not making us uncomfy. You're just wasting your breath.
Going on and on about the intangible and indescribable benefits of bearing children in no contributes to a thread in which folks were describing why they chose NOT to have children. If you absolute must, tell us why you made the decision to have kids. At least that would be more on topic than, "Oh, but it's so joyful--far more joyful than anything you will every experience."

xdamage
05-15-2007, 05:04 PM
^^You're not making us uncomfy. You're just wasting your breath.



Seriously, you guys treated the women that had a dissenting opinion like complete crap. Just a bunch of mass group hysteria and BS. If you honestly aren't uncomfy, then prove it, and when a woman posts in here that it turns out she found she actually enjoys her kids, giver a break and stop doing the group BS and giving them crap. Maybe they don't word their phrases "perfectly" and use phrases like "have it all" vs say spending endless hours trying to word it perfectly so as not to offend anyone, but just maybe (maybe?) you could try accepting what they're intent is vs acting like pirranha and tearing them apart. Afterall, the facts are that they have had an experience that the childless have not. You can scream and kick and moan about endlessly, but having had that additional experience means that they do have valuable input to offer, and an experience that the childless have not (that's the fact) And really, if anyone is that insecure in their choice to remain childless that they feel the need to rip those with children and who cant help but say they love their children a new one, I'm being honest when I say it sounds like they have some serious problems they need to work out with the shrink - not take out on the women with children.

p.s. and I couldn't disagree more, those who have found that having children is in fact amazing have a very important view to offer. Your discounting it demonstrates what I would call mental rigidity, an inability to see how it is extremely relevant. Telling them STFU because you can't see that is not their problem, it's your problem.

Embyr
05-15-2007, 05:11 PM
I think what xdamage was saying is that he CAN'T explain why... he doesn't have the vocabulary for it (not that he isn't effectively articulate- obviously the opposite) in terms of his condition pre-child, which would be the way in which he must relate the story...

and he said "benefits AND COSTS." Most of x's repsonses have been simply stating that as a public forum, we will have dissention, gracious, openminded, close-minded, topic-related, and totally tangential. He wasn't, himself, going on about the intangible pleasures of being "childed" that the childfree would never get to experience; he was simply saying we need to be ready to make room for a variety of opinions without slamming them (like some of them have done us... why sink to that level?) and that he cOULdn't answer the question "why I chose to have kids" because the pre- and post-child answers would be totally different, and set in different vocabularies that would make them almost incongruent because the experience allowed him to change his ways of thinking in a way not previously thought possible. And that wasn't to imply that WE were LACKING anything... he didn't mean it to be insulting.

edit: looks like he responded before i did. :"-)

Dottie Rebel
05-15-2007, 05:17 PM
Alright. You won. You win. You are the winner. Have your thread. Have fun.

xdamage
05-15-2007, 05:20 PM
I think what xdamage was saying is that he CAN'T explain why... he doesn't have the vocabulary for it (not that he isn't effectively articulate- obviously the opposite) in terms of his condition pre-child, which would be the way in which he must relate the story...

and he said "benefits AND COSTS." Most of x's repsonses have been simply stating that as a public forum, we will have dissention, gracious, openminded, close-minded, topic-related, and totally tangential. He wasn't, himself, going on about the intangible pleasures of being "childed" that the childfree would never get to experience; he was simply saying we need to be ready to make room for a variety of opinions without slamming them (like some of them have done us... why sink to that level?) and that he cOULdn't answer the question "why I chose to have kids" because the pre- and post-child answers would be totally different, and set in different vocabularies that would make them almost incongruent because the experience allowed him to change his ways of thinking in a way not previously thought possible. And that wasn't to imply that WE were LACKING anything... he didn't mean it to be insulting.

edit: looks like he responded before i did. :"-)

WoW! Thank you for saying what I was having trouble saying. You said it perfectly.

And yes, I can't put into words how I feel about my kids now that I have them. I don't have the vocabulary, and if I did it would be at best a vague shadow of the reality. But it's extremely relevant, because those feelings that turned on after I had kids are feelings I never experienced pre-child. it changes everything in terms of the cost/benefit think, but there was no way to know until AFTER I had children because the feelings didn't turn on until then.

And I see a few women here trying to explain that and apparently are also falling short on vocabulary and are getting reamed for it. Sorry, but my inner knight just thinks it sucks.

DylanAngel
05-15-2007, 05:30 PM
WoW! Thank you for saying what I was having trouble saying. You said it perfectly.

And yes, I can't put into words how I feel about my kids now that I have them. I don't have the vocabulary, and if I did it would be at best a vague shadow of the reality. But it's extremely relevant, because those feelings that turned on after I had kids are feelings I never experienced pre-child. it changes everything in terms of the cost/benefit think, but there was no way to know until AFTER I had children because the feelings didn't turn on until then.

And I see a few women here trying to explain that and apparently are also falling short on vocabulary and are getting reamed for it. Sorry, but my inner knight just thinks it sucks.

I don't understand your point. Nobody here is trying to downplay the feelings that a parent has for their child.

They are saying they don't want the responsibility. It really has nothing to do with feelings at all.

I have no doubt in my mind that all of these women would love and care for their child if they wound up having to keep a pregnancy. But they don't want it to come to that. They want their lives to be dependent free. They want to be free with nothing to encumber that freedom.

You're talking about apples and they're talking about oranges.

xdamage
05-15-2007, 05:35 PM
They are saying they don't want the responsibility. It really has nothing to do with feelings at all.

I have no doubt in my mind that all of these women would love and care for their child if they wound up having to keep a pregnancy. But they don't want it to come to that. They want their lives to be dependent free. They want to be free with nothing to encumber that freedom.

You're talking about apples and they're talking about oranges.

I understand about not wanting the responsibility Dylan. I was there.

And I agree, regarding they would care for them.

What is missing is, they might well be surprised at how much unexpected joy they feel around their own kids. Millions of years of evolutionary instinct stronger then any sex drive can kick in and just overwhelm people after they have kids (but not before), and trying to explain that is like trying to explain to someone who is pre-pubescent why sex rocks so much ;)

That doesn't mean have kids... but that does mean, don't simply blow off those that have them as being entitlementmoos.

Hatshepsut
05-15-2007, 05:38 PM
*Plays violin as the thread burns*

Lysondra
05-15-2007, 05:46 PM
*joins Hatshepsut on piano*

DylanAngel
05-15-2007, 05:47 PM
That doesn't mean have kids... but that does mean, don't simply blow off those that have them as being entitlementmoos.

I don't know why I'm arguing this. ::)

I don't think they're blowing off people who have children, they are blowing off people who have something nasty to say about women who choose NOT to have children.

They're probably just sick and tired of people ramming the baby thing down their throats and it resulted in a rant. No different than any other rant in here.

It was a freaking rant against people with big mouths and a rant against those who think they know people better than those people know themselves.

Oh and did I forget to mention? It was a rant?

Geez...where did that point get lost here?!!!

Hatshepsut
05-15-2007, 05:47 PM
^Nero was rumored to play the fiddle while Rome burned, hence my fiddling.

Embyr
05-15-2007, 05:48 PM
... at least it lasted 12 pages? i thought it was a good thread. how many threads in lounge last 12 pages.... :P

Lysondra
05-15-2007, 05:48 PM
^ Well that puts a whole new light on why Nero is the title of CD burning software.

xdamage
05-15-2007, 05:49 PM
The inner knight bows out from this thread, ream away, and enjoy the music /bow

DylanAngel
05-15-2007, 05:52 PM
And I have one more thing to say here. I completely RESENT a man coming in this thread talking about the joys of parenthood to a bunch of women.

YOU don't have to get pregnant, YOU don't have to get sick, YOU don't have to carry it, YOU don't have to get fat, YOU don't have any pain, YOU won't not have a freaking drink for 9 months plus, and YOU don't have to go through the possible wrecking of your body whether it be the leeching of your calcium or saggy breasts and stretchmarks.

TOTALLY different ballgame.

AlexxaHex
05-15-2007, 05:57 PM
Well ain't that some shit?^^ :P

So now men can't know about the joys of parenthood because they can't get pregnant? This is just out of control.

xdamage
05-15-2007, 05:57 PM
They're probably just sick and tired of people ramming the baby thing down their throats and it resulted in a rant. No different than any other rant in here.


I said I'd STFU, but I respect you Dylan, so a reply is due... of course, I can relate and understand that... it's just my inner knight, I see a couple of women here at least getting reamed because they didn't word their replies perfectly, and m gut feeling is the mean well, they aren't trying to offend anyone, and I can relate to their posts having been on both sides of the question, so... you know what knights want to do... defend those who can't defend themselves. I read their posts with a totally different eye. I saw no intent to make anyone feel uncomfy, just they were expressing a POV from an experience the childless do not have, and frankly cannot have until they have kids (if they have kids). Has absolutely nothing to do with telling other people what to do, and everything to do with those women that have had a positive experience having kids, are well, awesome... and I can't help but feel they deserve some backing for sticking to their convinctions.

xdamage
05-15-2007, 05:59 PM
Well ain't that some shit?^^ :P

So now men can't know about the joys of parenthood because they can't get pregnant? This is just out of control.

Let it go, I'm done. yes, i can't possibly enjoy parenthood or my kids ... fuck this close mindedness, it's exactly why this thread sucked to begin with.

DylanAngel
05-15-2007, 06:01 PM
Well ain't that some shit?^^ :P

So now men can't know about the joys of parenthood because they can't get pregnant? This is just out of control.

For someone who raves about being taken out of context, you sure know how to do it yourself!

Saying that I resent a man talking about the joys of parenthood because he won't ever know the pain of pregnancy is FAR from saying he couldn't enjoy parenthood.

And to Xdamage...your white knighthood has been noted. You know I normally think it's charming but man, pregnancy and motherhood is one thing I just don't share with someone who has a penis. It's all good.;)

Lysondra
05-15-2007, 06:01 PM
I heard once that the main reason men aren't larger parts in their children's lives is actually because the women won't let them be. It turns out that men actually want to play larger roles but the mothers don't trust them to do so.

I think that has something to do with this thread. *shrug*

rozz
05-15-2007, 06:02 PM
Wow. That was ugly. And completely unnecessary.

Hatshepsut
05-15-2007, 06:05 PM
Imagine that there was a thread called, "I love my kids." Most Childfree people would never dream of posting something along the lines of, "Oh, too bad you'll never be able to keep all your vacation days to yourself, and you'll always be thinking of your kids in the back of your head. I pity those who aren't free like me." We Childfree know that most people would take offense to stuff like that, and that it's not our domain. However, we don't get the same decency. Some parents just don't seem to realize that their good intentions are actually trespasses and intrusions that they would not forgive if they got the same. You know how there are well-intended compliments that are actually annoying, condescending, and belittling, like, "Why are you stripping? You're too smart and pretty to be here." That's what we hear when we hear our choice being belittled. I mean, they have no qualms with their giving "enlightening advice," yet if I spoke of how happy I am not to be leashed down, it's considered snobbery. As corny as it is, try putting yourself in the other side of the mirror, and hear the words that would be spoken to you.

Summed up: It's not the parenthood that bugs me, it's the egocentricism. Please realize that some things are not your domain. I realize that this is a public forum, but I don't write derailing posts on threads that don't concern me, such as loving children sooo much and wanting to get pregnant. There's a difference between presenting a different opinion and joining a conversation that does not concern you.

DylanAngel
05-15-2007, 06:08 PM
Wow. That was ugly. And completely unnecessary.

Only if you take it out of context. I just don't think a man should have come into this thread pushing his opinion onto women who don't want to have children.

That's the bottom line here. Not wanting to have kids. There's enough pressure out there without men trying to get/make women do things with their bodies that they just don't want to.

And I say the same thing to my man and his father as well. Has nothing to do with Xdamage personally.

jaizaine
05-15-2007, 06:11 PM
Why oh why did I come back to this dam thread it just gets worse!

Ok I realise it's a public forum but get this and I think u only need a very moderate IQ to comprehend:

"Who here is childfree and why?"
Let me think is that so hard

(a) who here is childfree
Ok I am so I can answer

(b) why
here you put your reasons

There is no (c) I am not childfree but I choose to derail the thread because my opinions are so important that everyone here must be forced to read them.

Ok Im really pissed off and if that comes off as sarcastic and bitchy GOOD.

Oh yeah Xdamage as for the stupid post about fathers cannot enjoy their children coz they didn't get pregnant I dunno where that came from but how stupid and irrelevant. Once again who is childfree and why? please how did your answer address the issue.

xdamage
05-15-2007, 06:12 PM
Has nothing to do with Xdamage personally.

No problem, understood.

DylanAngel
05-15-2007, 06:14 PM
For the last time. You may think it's stupid and irrelevant but it's the main reason that I am having a hard time with my future family, specifically my father in law.

I don't want to have a baby. I don't want to go through that again.

Fathers can love their children but they don't get to go through pregnancy. That's the point of the post. A man is trying to tell me what I should do with my body. And hell yes, it makes me steamed. Unfortunately, poor Xdamage got caught up in my rage.

jaizaine
05-15-2007, 06:17 PM
^^
sorry I didnt realise he was responding to your post I thought he just randomly said it. My apologises totally understandable from your viewpoint.

DylanAngel
05-15-2007, 06:18 PM
^^
sorry I didnt realise he was responding to your post I thought he just randomly said it. My apologises totally understandable from your viewpoint.

Not a problem hon.;D