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doc-catfish
05-24-2007, 03:59 PM
If fat people think they're being discriminated upon because they can't fit into a seat on something, they should perhaps understand the perspective of a skinny person who's paid full price for a ticket to an event where there's assigned bench seating and he/she can barely sit on their assigned spot because there are obese people either side of that spot who are spilling into it.

I'm sorry for feeling unsympathetic, but I've been left handed my whole life which unlike most obesity is a completely incurable condition. I could be bitching about backwards doorknobs, not being able to play shortstop, uncomfortable school desks or the design of most spiral notebooks, but I thought it would be more convenient to take the lemons that I was dealt with and make lemonade out of them. I suppose most other lefties feel the same way. That's why we don't hear much hubaboo about discrimination against left-handed people.

LatinaRose
05-24-2007, 04:00 PM
^^Well, I can't speak for everyone, for me on my fathers insurance thru his workplace, he is able to pick a plan and pay that rate. Some plans have more benefits and are therefore more expensive. I think this is how it goes across the board, tho I could be wrong as I just leech off daddy's insurance.

TheSexKitten
05-24-2007, 04:00 PM
Heh nice analogy doc. ;)

Jenny
05-24-2007, 04:09 PM
^^Well, I can't speak for everyone, for me on my fathers insurance thru his workplace, he is able to pick a plan and pay that rate. Some plans have more benefits and are therefore more expensive. I think this is how it goes across the board, tho I could be wrong as I just leech off daddy's insurance.
Yeah, but is he being individually assessed, or just picking a plan?

Doc - I appreciate your point. However, you can concede that there is a difference in having difficulty in writing in a spiral notebook and being called names because you are left handed ("only lazy people write with their left hands", "left handed people smell")

LatinaRose
05-24-2007, 04:15 PM
^^ya know, I really have no idea.

BrunetteGoddess
05-24-2007, 04:16 PM
Yeah, but is he being individually assessed, or just picking a plan?

Doc - I appreciate your point. However, you can concede that there is a difference in having difficulty in writing in a spiral notebook and being called names because you are left handed ("only lazy people write with their left hands", "left handed people smell")
I think he was talking about "disabilities" moreso.

doc-catfish
05-24-2007, 04:38 PM
Doc - I appreciate your point. However, you can concede that there is a difference in having difficulty in writing in a spiral notebook and being called names because you are left handed ("only lazy people write with their left hands", "left handed people smell")
Just a show of hands from our southpaws here, how many of you heard something along the lines of "you write really good for a left hander" when you were in school, or caught shit for looking off your neighbor's desk because you had to write in your notebook sideways.

Uhh yeah, me too. :wave:

I also point out that left-handedness is numerously referenced in the Bible in an unfavorable manner. Don't even get me started on why I can't use most power tools.

Jenny
05-24-2007, 04:57 PM
Doc - you can't honestly be saying that a reference in the bible is same type of thing as telling people that they smell.

And for school related issues like you are describing you DO have a legitimate complaint. And people did complain. Which is why school now carry left handed scissors and accommodate lefties instead of tying their left hands to their desk and making them write with the right.

Step back for a second and think about what you are trying to justify.

cameron_keys
05-24-2007, 05:52 PM
Most people with employer subsidized insurance do pay a portion. And while you are not always individually assesed..if the ins. company's costs go up due to health problems stemming from obesity, smoking,etc....rates go up across the board.

Some ins companies require health checks before you are accepted..and thus you are charged more for things like testing positive for nicotine...

flickad
07-28-2007, 11:20 PM
Just a show of hands from our southpaws here, how many of you heard something along the lines of "you write really good for a left hander" when you were in school, or caught shit for looking off your neighbor's desk because you had to write in your notebook sideways.

Uhh yeah, me too. :wave:

I also point out that left-handedness is numerously referenced in the Bible in an unfavorable manner. Don't even get me started on why I can't use most power tools.

I began school in the early eighties and was forced to write with my right hand, which to me seems like discrimination of some sort. I now write with my right hand, having had my crayons repeatedly removed from my left hand and placed in my right from the age of four or five, but I was never able to hold a pen correctly in my right hand (and still can't) and continue to use cutlery with my left, which means that the first thing I do on sitting down at a restaurant or someone's dinner table is to switch my knife and fork around.

/ sidetrack.

Katrine
07-28-2007, 11:40 PM
Just a show of hands from our southpaws here, how many of you heard something along the lines of "you write really good for a left hander" when you were in school, or caught shit for looking off your neighbor's desk because you had to write in your notebook sideways.

Uhh yeah, me too. :wave:

I also point out that left-handedness is numerously referenced in the Bible in an unfavorable manner. Don't even get me started on why I can't use most power tools.

I'm a lefty that shouldn't have been. Amongst russian culture, being a lefty is a very bad thing. However, over there, I wrote right handed. At some point when we came over to the US, I switched, to my parents' dismay. So relatives and other russians always mocked me being a "levsha." But no one in school here gave a shit and I never looked at it as disability. AND, I played shortstop. ;) Just my .002 to your thread Doc. I'm inclined to agree with Jenny. Its not really an apples:apples comparison.

Clara_M
07-29-2007, 12:40 AM
My personal opinion is that people sugar coat things way too much these days.

So that's where the extra calories are coming from to make so many people fat! :-X

Dirty Ernie
07-29-2007, 01:02 PM
Let's see if the amusement park solution would be any better than the existing "problem".

The manufacturer of roller coaster cars creates a car that is designed to hold people of exceptional size (moreso weight than height), and can add them into the coaster at 1 or 2 spots in the line of cars without re-engineering the entire ride. Now you have identifiable "fat cars" and would have to seperate those that would likely need them into a unique line, as the random ratio of POES vs those that fit into the "regular' cars wouldn't be able to fill the ride without it. So, now you have an identifiable "fat" line and across the way is a line of not-fat riders. Do you think this would be of any less embarrassment to those in the fat line?

More likely this solution would lead to a lawsuit in and of itself.

NoCoverLover
07-29-2007, 05:31 PM
This is actually an engineering issue...

A great deal of $$ are invested in those restraints. The Superman ride tops out at 90+ MPH! At those speeds, heights and g-forces, you CANNOT 'depart the ride'. Doing so is fatal, as that example hightlights!

The restraints are desgined to cover the normal range of weights. If you want to make a restraint that can correctly hold a 350 lb female, fine. But guess what?... It won't properly restrain me (a 130 lb male standing all of 5'6")...

Maybe we should install a half-dozen or so 'fat seats', that will accomodate the aformentioned 350 lb females. Of course, although I would never say it, it will generate a bunch of 'look who rode the fat-car today!!' type conversations...

nekogirl
07-30-2007, 12:31 AM
I'm always amazed at how offended people are by larger people. And I think it does go beyond being annoyed by seat problems and such.

As for tough love- I agree with Jenny. It's one thing to be told the truth, as it is, about health to someone who has a weight problem. It's another to insult someone and file it under 'helping them'. For people with actual food issues, compulsive eaters , self-esteem is typically very low, and this 'hurtful truth' only feeds into the disorder.

I myself have never been overweight (and I do have an under active thyroid, ironically), but have family that struggles. I try to remind them to take care of themselves- 'I want you to be around to see your grandbabies!'- just like I do my thinner friends/family who have habits that are just as unhealthy.

I do not believe that things should be engineered around obesity. But there is nothing wrong with not being rude- it's not the same thing as sugarcoating.

BlueJeanBaby
07-30-2007, 02:45 AM
To the OP...

I'm inclined to agree with you. While there are people with medical problems that cause them to be overweight, this usually does not cause them to be so out-of-control overweight that they cannot ride rides at amusement parks.

I don't believe that we as a society should be encouraging unhealthy lifestyles. Unfortunately, as more and more Americans are becoming obese, there is more of a push to insinuate that it is "normal" to be like that. That it is the SKINNY people who have the problem. That they must not EAT. That places should go through the trouble and extra expense of taking responsibility for accomodating their size when the overwhelming majority of these people are obese because they aren't taking responsibility for themselves.

I feel badly for those people who are embarrassed because they cannot fit on a ride. I really do. I can't imagine the hurt and embarrasment. However, I don't believe the problem lies with the amusement parks.

The United States has a serious weight problem. We serve outrageously large portions, we encourage lazy behavior, and we try to make everyone ELSE adjust to our dysfunctional lifestyle...all these examples tell me that instead of combatting the issue of obesity in America, instead of doing the work to get healthy, and instead of taking responsibility for themselves, people are taking the path of least resistance and, as I said a moment ago, making everyone else adjust to their dysfunctional lifestyle.

I have empathy for the people who were ashamed and afraid they wouldn't be able to fit on the ride, but I'm not going to throw them a pity party.

The best thing they can do is take this negative moment in their lives and turn into a positive one by using it as motivation to get healthy.

It would be nice to see them challenging themselves for once instead of challenging the amusement parks.

PrettyCurlieQ
07-31-2007, 08:52 PM
I agree with your post, LR. You make an excellent point. Whether or not it was offensive, the chick shouldn't have posted something on the internet expecting to get only pats on the back and sympathy. The purpose of posting in forums is to get multiple points of view, new opinions, new ideas.

StevieStar7
07-31-2007, 10:26 PM
hmmmmm...well if you think weight is not a problem in this country, just turn on the tv! Biggest Loser, Celebrity Fit Club, and now Shaq's Big Challenge!

Habinairo
08-01-2007, 06:50 AM
^^^ There is money to be made out of weight.

Siber
08-01-2007, 02:19 PM
Oh sweet Jesus. No one thinks skinny people have a problem! Every one WANTS to be skinny, for crissakes. We idolize and revere skinny people. Take a walk down the magazine aisle and what do you see? Skinny people on every cover! No one thinks they have a problem. Many of the magazines are telling us how to be just like them!

I have been lucky enough to see the world from both sides. I am 5'6, and my adult weight has ranged from 120 to 200. This is not laziness. The medicines I take caused the weight gain. And as for the poster who said that people like me still have to feed the fat, I am on a strict 800 calorie a day diet, I haven't eaten fast food in ten years, and I excercize religiously. I am down to 170 and I hope to get to 150, but there aren't that many more calories to cut.

That being said, I get treated MUCH differently when I am large compared to when I am small. People treat me with less respect, I find it harder for clients to take me, I even have to endure insults. Why? I'm not lazy, I probably eat better than many of you. I get that because it is a stereotype. A nasty stereotype.

I think a better comparison is homosexuality. There are people who believe that homosexuality is a choice (when it isn't, much like obesity with oftentimes correlates more to race/genetics than anything else). When I asked a gay friend of mine what he thought of that, he replied "Who would CHOOSE to be part of a group that society openly hates?" Good answer. The same is true of fat people. Understand that each and every one of them would trade places with you in a heartbeat. All the overweight people I know have tried to slim down, but it was so hard for them they gave up.

Just like everyone else with a problem, these people need your help, they need to judged based on WHO THEY ARE, not what they look like, and they need to free of hateful stereotypes. Ahteful stereotypes have no place whatsoever in America, and I am ashamed that so many of you, who I have come to know and respect as good, intelligent people, would throw around such hate.

My .02.

Siber

Lapaholic
08-01-2007, 03:55 PM
If u all didnt notice the limit on some of the rides was 6'2" which isnt that tall. Thats got nothing to do with being fat. And 225 isnt that fat ( I wish i was 225, im 6'3") I agree that they should have a seperate entry fee for people who cannot enjoy the park to its fullest. Seems fair. Nor should they expect everyone to fit their engineering specs thats fair too just dont charge me for it.

And chubby citizens get charged extra for airfare too...

I gotta stick up for us freaks of nature!!!!

Lysondra
08-01-2007, 06:20 PM
Oh sweet Jesus. No one thinks skinny people have a problem! Every one WANTS to be skinny, for crissakes. We idolize and revere skinny people. Take a walk down the magazine aisle and what do you see? Skinny people on every cover! No one thinks they have a problem. Many of the magazines are telling us how to be just like them!


You're joking, right? I mean, I agree it's most likely easier for skinny people, but when I take a walk down the magazine isle, I see 'Too skinny? Dying? Coke diet?!' and all this evil horrendous mean stuff being said about skinny people AND fat people. It's like you can never EVER be the right weight for Hollywood. You're either anorexic with an eating disorder and should be stopped or a fatty with an eating disorder and should be stopped.

Siber
08-02-2007, 05:23 AM
Couldn't agree more that the press and Hollywood are sensationalistic and like to harp on people. It is true that celebrity mags do treat both the skinny and the fat with disrespect. (For every Skinny? Dying? headline there's a "Look who has cellulite!" No?)

I was talking about a braoder picture. Magazines that purport to be about fitness like shape and fitness and others usually grace their covers with models who aren't all that "fit," just thin. The message? Thin is the goal. Not fit, thin.

Also, even if there isn't a thin person on the cover, most magazines are chock full of "Ways to lose weight." This month's womans day touts "Lose that tummy in three weeks!" Does it say I'll have a problem if I lose my tummy? No. It's filled with testimonials about how awesome it is/would be not to have a tummy.

Even mags that aren't about weight or fitness or personal issues tout the skinny. Rolling Stone, which is obstensibly about music, puts the likes of Avril Lavigne and Amy Winehouse on its cover. Fat people? Never. Do GQ and Esquire have chubby folk on their pages? No. And what are these mags really selling? They are selling "cool." They say "These people are cool." The message being that if you don't look like these people, you aren't cool. That's hardly stating that skinny people have a problem. They are held out as the pinnacles of fashion, beauty and "coolness."

So no, I wasn't joking and I stand by my statement, while I do accept that there are a few exceptions. I temper my "no one thinks," but still. Magazines usually tell us to be skinny.

Siber

Habinairo
08-02-2007, 06:08 AM
Whenever my daughter asks me why she's not allowed that cookie (she does get them but not at certain times/day, or quantaties), I'm always telling her that they could make her not healthy if she eats too much. I am always throwing out the "healthy" word and the "fit" word. And she gets it. and I think living easily, not paying attention to what you're eating, has been a major part of society's problem with obesity now. I asked someone once why people stay in uncomfortable spots in life for so long, and he replied, "Because knowing what you're doing, having familiarity, is more comfortable than the fear of not knowing, and changing." It's been said over and over, we're creatures of habit. And that's fine. I think this is more led to people who do not pay attention to what they eat and how active they are. Those who have a legitimate reason for their weight, well, yeah, they've already been to a doctor and are probably getting help. Those, Like my sister, tell me there's nothing wrong with what they eat. And the fridge has not one fresh fruit or veggie in it. And the cupboards are full of chips, chocolates, cookies etc. The car is full of take out wrappers etc. But they eat fine? I think that's an issue. They don't care about their children living the same way as them? Her to be 7 year old daughter is already 80lbs? That child has nothing wrong with her, so why is she 80 lbs at 7? I think this has become more than a medical problem.

Sunshine73
08-02-2007, 11:47 AM
Well, I have a problem with paying $41 per person to get in anyplace...LOL...but since this thread wasn't about that, I'll say this:

The vast majority of people in this country are fat because they refuse to cut out the processed foods. They think that McD's is a great choice for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Put that together with the fact that the VAST majority of jobs is sitting in front of a computer/machine/whatever and pushing a button. So, not only has the food gotten worse over the years...but the general activity level has gone down. Whereas before you walked if you couldn't afford a car (and most people couldn't)...you farmed your own food or if you worked a factory, it was labor intensive. Not so anymore.

I know a few people with thyroid problems that have weight issues. However, I also know that they tend to use the thyroid "problem" as an excuse to be heavier. They feel defeated, so they defeat themselves. It all comes down to one thing...are they living their daily lives to be as healthy as they can possibly be? In most of these cases...no, they're not.

As for the money spent...well, that's a tough issue. If a "fat" person should be entitled to pay less money for an amusement park ticket because they cannot fit on most of the rides, then skinny people should get a discount on plane fare because they take up less space and their light weight uses less gas. ::) If you do not like something, change it. However, most people think that means change the environment instead of changing themselves.

Besides, it's easier to sit their ass down in front of a computer and complain about how terrible their predicament is as opposed to going out and doing something about it.

Can they sue the park? Probably not. They park makes this statement for that very reason. It's not discrimination...it's life. If you're too fat to fit on the ride, you're too fat to fit on the ride. Expecting that every company is going to close shop in order to expand their seats/rides/etc is foolish. Fat is not a handicap...even the "medical" fat. They can all be controlled with conscious food eating and all.

The problem is simply laziness. It really is. Thyroid issues or not...you eat for shit and you're going to be fat.


Absolutely.

If being overweight is causing you to miss out on fun things in life, why not make the changes within yourself so that you will become a happier, healthier person?

BlueJeanBaby
08-02-2007, 02:45 PM
You're joking, right? I mean, I agree it's most likely easier for skinny people, but when I take a walk down the magazine isle, I see 'Too skinny? Dying? Coke diet?!' and all this evil horrendous mean stuff being said about skinny people AND fat people. It's like you can never EVER be the right weight for Hollywood. You're either anorexic with an eating disorder and should be stopped or a fatty with an eating disorder and should be stopped.



Thank you, yes that is what I was trying to say. There IS a backlash against thin people, and it does have something to do with the fact that so many people are obese.

There are all these magazines that do try to glamorize being then, yes...BUT as tiny person I can't tell you how many times I've had overweight chicks talk shit about me for being thin (and I'm healthy thin, not scary thin). More times than I can count I've had women assume some really mean things and make fun of me because of my size (I was an exceptionally short and tiny girl growing up), and I can tell you that 95% of the women who have done that were big girls.

Ladies nowadays are CONSTANTLY trying to insinuate that thin people are nasty, that they aren't REAL women, and that they aren't attractive because "guys only like THICK girls." Oh I forgot, they must be anorexic too.

If overweight people don't like having hurtful comments directed towards them because of their size, then when is it ok for some of them to do it to healthy people? It's not. Being cruel is being cruel.

One guy thinks that what I said about this societal trend towards acting like thin people have the problem was bullshit....it really isn't.

Just the topic we're on is proof enough...the fact that some exceptionally overweight people are trying to challenge amusement parks and everything in between is a clear example of this attempt at "normalizing" an unhealthy lifestyle.

missfOxxy
08-02-2007, 03:18 PM
who cares about Cedar Point?
let's go to six flags;D