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Lysondra
06-07-2007, 04:45 PM
Thanks everyone!!

Apparently, since my balance is still spot-on, it doesn't need adjusted.. or whatever. It was fine, she said. Nothing wrong with having that spine, it was just really obvious what I had done for a living. My center of gravity is still spot on. She's not worried about fixing it. I was just REALLY curious.

And I already do yoga for my back pain....

Lysondra
06-07-2007, 04:45 PM
as usual boxingdoc hit the nail on the head.

a couple of surgeon friends of mine shared their disdain for chiros when this stroke connection was documented. including when the chiro on the floor below in their building caused it TWICE!

there is no way i'd be letting anyone manipulate my neck. ever.

LM, i know an awesome massage dude who is also an acupuncturist should you be interested. he's in the city.

Yes please thank you. :)

GoldCoastGirl
06-07-2007, 05:19 PM
On the topic of back pain does anyone else's lower back really hurt at the end of a shift of dancing? I think it's all of the hip grinds etc. I dont know if it's my scoliosis or just caused by dancing. It goes away after I have slept but at the end of the shift sometimes my lower back hurts so bad I can hardly move. This happens on sat night when I work 10 hour shifts.

:wave:

I have to stretch my back out (and my feet/toes too) all the time at the end of a really long shift! ;D I also compliment that with alot of lower back exercises -- http://www.truebalance.com.au/products_beginners.html -- and pilates .................and a good nights sleep.

As for upper back pain, not so much as I am fairly well developed there IMO. The only time I get pain up there is from stress and/or too much computer use (not taking enough breaks from the computer/using the mouse).

What's interesting is that my mother used to 'manipulate' my neck in a chiropractic way whenever I complained of a headache... snap snap.. and the headache was gone! :) I'm not really suffering from that ... and she did it quite often when I was a teen...

I really don't "do" chiropractors. As for "complimentary" therapies I prefer acupuncture and a good massage.

Nautilus
06-08-2007, 12:16 AM
here is the place, LM
http://www.assiram.com.au/

all their contact details are on there. you'll need to see Hamish. he is very popular so you may have to wait a few days to get in.

he doesn't know my secret past (though he's probably guessed), so i won't tell you to say i sent you.... "nautilus sent me for my stripper back"...lol

jaizaine
06-08-2007, 12:55 AM
I say give it a month...if it is going to do any good, you should feel it in that timeframe. However, be very cautious about letting them do cervical ( neck) manipulation. There has been a lot of press and research lately about complications from this that the chiros like to playdown. Cervical manipulation can cause strokes and tears in the arteries of the neck causing disastrous complications.



OK thats just scared the shit outta me.

jaizaine
06-08-2007, 12:56 AM
as usual boxingdoc hit the nail on the head.

a couple of surgeon friends of mine shared their disdain for chiros when this stroke connection was documented. including when the chiro on the floor below in their building caused it TWICE!

there is no way i'd be letting anyone manipulate my neck. ever.

LM, i know an awesome massage dude who is also an acupuncturist should you be interested. he's in the city.

Hey Nautilus how is acupuncture? I have never tried it.

Lysondra
06-08-2007, 05:29 AM
here is the place, LM
http://www.assiram.com.au/

all their contact details are on there. you'll need to see Hamish. he is very popular so you may have to wait a few days to get in.

he doesn't know my secret past (though he's probably guessed), so i won't tell you to say i sent you.... "nautilus sent me for my stripper back"...lol

Y'know what's fucking weird? I passed by the place today before I saw this and went, "Huh... I wonder if this is the place..." and it WAS. Woohoo.

heavenlyheidi
06-08-2007, 01:32 PM
Boxing doc--


The latest statistic of death caused by medical (not chiropractic) mistakes is 783,936 per year. The incidence of stroke in chiropractic is 1-3 incidents per 1 million adjustments. (from the cdc)


Chiropractors are Dr's not merely for the program, but because they have to get licensed and pass national boards. In the state of florida chiropractors can even prescribe drugs. They are not allowed to diagnose--however, they have the knowledge to when to refer out.

As far as strokes, I read the article and the woman who had a stroke had been a chiropractic patient for 20 yrs before going to a chiro that performed a bad adjustment and caused a stroke. Clearly, in 20 yrs she had some reason to keep going. As i mentioned before, there are bad Docs in ANY field. The incident of stroke in chiropractic is still very low compared to death rates due to medical mistakes and drug interactions.

Case and point--Insurance companies are about making money and not paying. Malpractice rates for chiros are the lowest in any field.

Heres an article about iatrogenic (caused my medical dr's)

"A definitive review and close reading of medical peer-review journals, and government health statistics shows that American medicine frequently causes more harm than good. The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions (ADR) to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million. (1) Dr. Richard Besser, of the CDC, in 1995, said the number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections was 20 million. Dr. Besser, in 2003, now refers to tens of millions of unnecessary antibiotics. (2, 2a)

The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million. (3) The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million. (4) The total number of iatrogenic [induced inadvertently by a physician or surgeon or by medical treatment or diagnostic procedures] deaths is 783,936. "

I am not saying chiros are great and dr's arent necessary or anything like that-- i am just saying there is a theoretical risk in any healthcare field. A lot of people have had great experiences with chiros. Its ironic to me that people are nervous about getting their neck adjusted by will pop any pill their MD's prescribe, even though they are routinely pulled off the market.

Additionally I would recommend seeing a chiro that practices Gonstead technique, which does not use any rotation of the cervical spine (which is where the minute risk lies in adjustment).

boxingdoc
06-08-2007, 03:14 PM
[QUOTE=heavenlyheidi;1105473]Boxing doc--


The latest statistic of death caused by medical (not chiropractic) mistakes is 783,936 per year. The incidence of stroke in chiropractic is 1-3 incidents per 1 million adjustments. (from the cdc)

You are comparing apples and oranges here. Mistakes per year vs incidents per adjustments? A more even comparison would be: What are the statistics for catastrophic stroke caused by doctor error per total number of doctor visits vs number of strokes per number of cervical manipulations per year?


Chiropractors are Dr's not merely for the program, but because they have to get licensed and pass national boards. In the state of florida chiropractors can even prescribe drugs. They are not allowed to diagnose--however, they have the knowledge to when to refer out.

A license and a national board make one a doctor? Quick, don't tell the nurses, physician assistants, and pharmacists. They will also want to be referred to as Dr. They can't diagnose but they can prescribe...I find that scary. If they can't diagnose, then how do they know what they are writing prescriptions for? If they consider themselves doctors, then they have the same hubris all other doctors are accused of by the lay public...why would they refer out if complaints can all be related back to abnormalities of the spine? Besides, the way the medical malpractice climate in Florida is going, the chiros are going to be the only ones left in the states to prescribe medications.


I'm all for alternative therapies where feasible, but as someone who works in the trenches, I do take issue with some of the statistics that you present. I don't argue that the hard numbers are inaccurate, but it is their interpretation that irks me. Adverse drug reaction? That could be from full blown anaphylactic shock to the stomach upset caused by certain antibiotics, or the itchiness certain narcotics routinely cause. They are all lumped together in statistics. Too many antibiotics prescribed for viral infections? I try to avoid it, but I'd like Dr. Besser to come in at 4 am to tell some screaming mother threatening a lawsuit that her little precious pumpkin really does not require antibiotics for the sniffles. The same thing for unnecessary hospitalizations when families _dump_ their elderly grandmothers at my door because they can't handle the dementia anymore and insist that it is the ED's responsibility to find her a nursing home at 2 am on a Friday night, long after the social workers are gone, the NH administrative staff have left and no one will be back until Monday morning. I'm really irked by a US population that wants to take no responsibility for smoking, drinking, eating crap and not exercising, but wants the healthcare system to fix everything immediately, for free, with a magic pill or two and then complains about "bad" outcomes. You know what? If you smoke crack and take viagra, you will have a heart attack. If you smoke and take hormonal birth control, eventually you will get a blood clot that may kill you. If you drink it up all through your pregnancy, your kid will be born with some serious defects.

Sorry to hijack and rant. I'm on a string of night shifts and I'm a bit cranky from the group who always comes in at 4 am to get work notes because they can't be bothered to show up at their jobs after partying all night. I'm also fed up with the crowd that thinks all conventional medicine is bad and all alternative therapy is good. If alternative is always the way to go, fine, let them take herbs for the ruptured appendicitis. I'll stick to conventional surgery, thankyouverymuch.

Lysondra
06-08-2007, 05:16 PM
Yeah, the comparison got me too. That doesn't answer anything. Now maybe if they told me how many adjustments were per year... or other injuries or mistakes involved with chiro other than stroke, like paralysis... or hell, if it was worldwide or country-wide.. then I'd be more likely to listen.

heavenlyheidi
06-09-2007, 01:17 AM
My only point in the comparison was to point out that every field has it bozo's and problems, and there is no therapy without risk. I have read in several journals that the risk of stroke is low, demonstrated by the insurance statistics, and it really only comes with rotary cervical adjustments that a lot of chiros do not even do.

Boxingdoc--totally agree on what you said about lifestyle. Our entire country is messed up in their thinking.

A lot of what you said is actually cohesive with a lot of chiropractic philosophy. Lifestyle is huge. I think drugs and surgery can be totally necessary. I dont want herbs for an infection, I think medicine definitely has its place. I am not against allopathic medicine. I think there are people way to alternative and extreme that do more harm than good. I just think that chiropractic gets a really bad rap by the AMA (which is why they got sued, and lost) and by dogmatic widespread ignorance. If i have an infection im going to an MD, if i have whiplash, im going to a chiro instead of living off painkillers.

Most top athletes (lance armstrong, wayne gretzy, tiger woods) and a lot of everyday people see chiros regularly. It is not meant to diagnose or cure anything, but a part of a healthy lifestyle.

Thats pretty much all i have to say im not going to continue. Just keep an open mind, try it out, find a GOOD doc, you might be surprised.

Lysondra
06-09-2007, 01:21 AM
Thats pretty much all i have to say im not going to continue. Just keep an open mind, try it out, find a GOOD doc, you might be surprised.

I... am? I'm going for my spinal problems. I'm already going. It's not like I said, NAH WON'T GO... I'm going and I'm doing yoga for strength and support as well.

And it REALLY freaks me out that the only thing I'm going for and to do is the one that causes strokes, that's all.

And NONE of this had to do with my original question. BLAH!

boxingdoc
06-09-2007, 02:45 PM
I apologize for the hijack. I reread your original post. What you are describing, the lordosis, could come from long term dancing, it could also be something you were born with. I see it in your average Joe every day. If it was not causing you any pain prior to your accident, it is not causing your pain after your accident. Your accident is causing you pain.

I would discuss concerns with cervical manipulation with your chiro. If he/she poo-poos your concerns, find another chiro. All health care professionals should discuss a patient's concerns until the patient is satisfied that all questions have been answered...even if the answers are not what you are looking for.

Hope you feel better soon.