View Full Version : In praise of the Uncut
Jenny
06-04-2008, 07:45 PM
Circumsion in the U.S. is common practice, & to undermind the mother's who have made this decision in an informative, safe setting... it's outreagous.
At one time striking your child with a belt was common practice for their own good. A lot of things have become less common when we socially examined them and thought "gosh, maybe this isn't such a great thing to do; and maybe we shouldn't continue to whitewash it in deference to the feelings of people who have been doing it." I realize that we have sanitized male circumcision, much the way we used to sanitize child abuse; I think that is a problem. Yes. I am not a mother and I think it is wrong to cut pieces of skin off of a baby. It seems pretty unsound to argue that one shouldn't take issue with a human rights issue because you might hurt the feelings of the people involved. The fact that mothers may have blamelessly engaged in the behaviour doesn't make the behaviour neutral. That is, because the motives may not be bad, doesn't make the procedure good. Nobody is suggesting a witchhunt against the mother's of circumsized men (at least nobody here). Declining to examine an issue, however, because a mother may not want to recognize that a decision may have been a bad one is the worst kind of social invisibility.
jaizaine
06-05-2008, 12:28 AM
My boyfriend grew up in Iran. His parents had him "cut" when he was 13!
He says it was the worst day of his life.
My boy's was done at 10 but it was done in australia under general anaesthetic. Muslem tradition.
jasmine
06-05-2008, 06:32 AM
Havanna, yep, I have 2 boys. We had the whole debate about circ with the 2nd as well. It had been a while since the hubby had seen the nursery babies with circs. My current OB actually said he was for circ and when hubby started talking to him about complications and such he actually said "almost all" circs have a mild infection or other complication afterward, but it's "no big deal." This is why I really don't think these are rare cases.
I also only know families with 5 young boys. All were cut, 1 lost about half of his penis, 1 lost a sliver off the tip (you can't really tell at all according to his mom) and had a hella infection, 1 had a mild infection and 1 had a lot of redness and irritation and a very, very slight infection. That would leave 1 out of 5 that was ok. These are well-educated families who practice good hygene.
I'm very impressed that your son had no issues and believe you must have taken excellent care of his dressings. I know how well you care for them really helps. As Dr B said it's almost impossible not to have a little bit of infection when the wound is constantly being exposed to urine and is kept in a moist, bactieria laden environment. (By the way, ever had an abrasion that urine gets on? Pain that will take your breath and feel like it stops your heart... Whhhhoooooaaaaa!)
I never thought I was a crusader against circ until you just mentioned it. But, yeah I guess I am now. Especially after reading some of the posts here. I was on the fence, but not any longer.
I will say this tho..... Mothers who decide on circ without thinking it through are common and no one should make them feel bad about a decision that cannot be redone. They are under a massive amount of stress and Dr's don't usually give accurate info, just info that supports their views.... I found this out the hard way.
My last thought is..... If all well educated mothers who think circ is the way to go are willing have female circ on themselves, then I have no problem with circumcising their infants. Without the clitorectomy, of course... That would just be cruel and we wanna compare apples to apples here, not apples to oranges, right? ;)
jasmine
06-05-2008, 06:35 AM
My boy's was done at 10 but it was done in australia under general anaesthetic. Muslem tradition.
I'm really confused, my ex was Muslem and I am sure he told me his was done at 5 or 6, maybe 7 at the oldest. He was the only boy and the youngest of 7, so he loved to be babied tho. Maybe he lied to get more sympathy. I was totally up in arms about them traumatizing his tiny, little boy self....
jaizaine
06-05-2008, 06:41 AM
^^
it's supposed to signal them becoming a man. so yeh that seems young to do it. my boy was done at 10 but i think even later is the norm.
jasmine
06-05-2008, 07:03 AM
^^
it's supposed to signal them becoming a man. so yeh that seems young to do it. my boy was done at 10 but i think even later is the norm.
I think maybe he was just going for the sympathy. Which sorta pisses me off even after all these years, because every time his mom called for him I had to bout bite my tongue off trying not to bitch her out. That was the main reason I changed our plans and didn't fly to Algeria with to meet his family. If I spoke Arabic a little better I probably would have said something, fortunately she was the only member of the family that didn't speak French, so we could barely communicate.
He descirbed in detail how painful, how much blood, how they held him down, how they just told him he was going to a party... Which he said there was but he was too embarrased and busy throwing up and was too dizzy from the pain so he hid in the corner.
jaizaine
06-05-2008, 07:05 AM
^^
quite possibly it's done like that over there. But if it's done in a Western country it is done under anaesthesia thankfully.
jasmine
06-05-2008, 07:26 AM
^^
quite possibly it's done like that over there. But if it's done in a Western country it is done under anaesthesia thankfully.
Actually, here in the US they don't use anything but sugar water in a bottle for infants unless you raise a big stink, then they try the giving them a baby asprine route. They will use a local at most hospitals, but you have to raise a fit of monolithic proportions. I had to do that with my first son, because I knew they weren't cutting on my son without something for pain.
I know for adult males they will use a local without question, but I'm not sure about younger kids. They seem to think that only adults feel pain over here. Even though that hypothesis (specifically that infants nerves are not developed enough to feel much pain) was discredited a while back.
I still kinda chuckle remembering hubby busting threw the recovery room doors with about 5 nurses chasing after him to stop my first sons' circ. It was sorta like one of those moments in a movie where the hero saves the day. ;D
jaizaine
06-05-2008, 07:43 AM
I meant they use anaesthetic for older boys. Im not sure about for infants. Maybe one of the aussie mum's could shed some light on that??
Nini Nieb
06-05-2008, 09:39 AM
I still kinda chuckle remembering hubby busting threw the recovery room doors with about 5 nurses chasing after him to stop my first sons' circ. It was sorta like one of those moments in a movie where the hero saves the day. ;D
Actually it could make a good movie !! Give your husband a big hugg from me :-* He is a hero !!
The fact that it is painfull and inducing complications is only a part of the equation. Nobody has to the right to enforce surgery on another human being that is so irreversibel !! IMO !?
In Soamlia, Sudan, Ethiopia, SA and even in Egypt/partly they do it to young girls b/c ... 'We have always done that' ... That ain't cool ... It is wrong !! It is !! It is wrong !!!
I left my son as nature intended. If he wants to change it that's up to him. I would also think there's more sensitivity there since the head doesn't get all dried out.
iambonbon05
06-06-2008, 11:42 AM
I think uncircumcised ones look weird.
BUT, I still probably won't have a kid of mine circumcised. It's not necessary. It only looks weird to me because I'm not used to it but I think in generations to follow it will become more and more normal. That and my oldest nephew's circumcision was messed up and now he has a crooked penis. No thanks!