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Casual Observer
07-26-2007, 09:27 AM
My question is, how would making English the official language solve this problem?The main issues addressed by establishing an official language relates to unity--unity in language, unity in law, unity in government.

If you think it doesn't matter if large sections of the population share different languages and cultural attachments, look at the secessionist history of Quebec. Look at the Balkans. Look at any number of internal domestic conflicts, hot or cold; language matters.

It's not about being racist--that's a straw-man tactic from folks that are basically suffering misplaced white guilt. It's about establishing a benchmark by which all people in the nation can communicate ideas, culture, and engage in meaningful social, political and economic exchange. In the US--particularly in critical-mass density populations, we are slowing losing that ability to exchange through failure to actively assimilate immigrants. If you think that's not a real problem, step outside of your community where "they" live (pick your poison), and see how well you fare trying to conduct normal day-to-day tasks.

CuriousJ
07-26-2007, 09:59 AM
Sign Language should be the official one ! It would be so nice and quite .
I understand they need to make an official language ( or not ) . It already exists in AZ Prop 103 , didn't really change anything that I can notice .

greenidlady1
07-26-2007, 03:03 PM
In the airline industry English is the official language, regardless of what country you are in. Yes, all flight attendants, even the ones with airlines overseas must know how to speak English.

I do feel like if a person chooses to reside in a country, they should know how to properly speak the primary language of that particular country. I think if you want citizenship to a country you should know how to speak and write their language to be granted permanant residency. It's great to know multiple languages but why should a native born citizens have to change everything around to accomodate others. I think it's extremely important for an alien's own survival to understand and know how to speak the language in the country they want to live in.

greenidlady1
07-26-2007, 03:11 PM
It's not racist to want consistencies. I work in a hospital in Texas, and it's difficult, even life-threatening to run into these language barriers.

Exactly, when I did nursing it was at times impossible particularly if I couldn't find a translator or they didn't have a family member living close by. I would spend plenty of vital time drawing pictures so I could communicate.

For example I had one lady with a nasty case of pneumonia. She was on oxygen and had an IV with antiboitics running through it. She kept her arms across her chest and her chest kept getting wet. Well, I am checking to see if her IV is intact and come to found she is leaking breast milk. Finally, she had a visitor and he in fact communicated to me she had recently given birth. From that point on I had to have him present or someone else who could speak her language present. It's hard for some to even begin to imagine all the challenges those in the healthcare profession face on a daily basis because of this situation.

Lysondra
07-26-2007, 06:47 PM
Sign Language should be the official one ! It would be so nice and quite .
I understand they need to make an official language ( or not ) . It already exists in AZ Prop 103 , didn't really change anything that I can notice .

Which one? There's American Sign language, Australian Sign Language... it's not universal either. ;)

Sh0t
07-26-2007, 07:05 PM
I feel no need to subsidize any language, English included

Most people have an incentive to learn it, but then again, there are some areas where english is in the minority, which is fine too. If you want to do business with Koreans, you'll be motivated to speak Korean.

I'm against official anything, for the most part. The best solution to not having the DMV issue multiple langauge publications is to get rid of the DMV, in my opinion.

To me, an official language is not too distant from having an official religion. You are implementing a certain culture by government fiat.

Rinna
07-26-2007, 08:43 PM
It's not about being racist--that's a straw-man tactic from folks that are basically suffering misplaced white guilt.

I really disagree. I suppose there are exceptions but it sure seems to me most of the people who are so hot to trot about declaring English as the offical language do have some racist issues going on.





To me, an official language is not too distant from having an official religion. You are implementing a certain culture by government fiat.

I'm with you on that ^ 100%

UtahMike
07-27-2007, 01:24 AM
Hmm. How about a little history here.

When the Continental Congress was busy inventing the United States of America, there was discussion of declaring an official national language. German came within one vote of being the national language. Instead, it was decided that the USA would remain multilingual.

When the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo ended the Mexican-American war, essentially all of what is now the southwestern United States became American territory. One of the provisions of that treaty was that the language would be preserved for the citizens of Mexico who were now citizens of the USA. There are families in Colorado, Arizona, and New Mexico who settled there in the sixteenth century directly from Spain, and who proudly speak Spanish (and English), and have never been in Mexico.

The USA includes regions which originally were French, Dutch, German, Russian, not to mention the Native Americans who would like to keep their language and culture from dying out. Go to any large city and you will find enclaves where Chinese, Korean, Japanese, German, is the language spoken. Go to rural Minnesota and North Dakota, and you will find communities where Norwegian is the language. I have heard that there are more speakers of Norwegian in the USA than in Norway. And the United States has the fourth largest number of Spanish speakers in the world.

Now, a little personal experience...

I taught school for 32.5 years in a city where there are large numbers of language minorities. In one school, there were twelve languages spoken other than English. Thirteen if you count American Sign Language. In my last class, of 28 students, 16 were bilingual, and of those 16, 5 were enrolled in our ESL classes. Another four had graduated from ESL and were being monitored for progress. I never met any parent who did not desperately want their child to learn English. Some would not even speak Spanish in the home because they did not want their child to learn it, with the result that the child grew up not knowing any language very well. I had one student who had a father who spoke German, and a mother who spoke Spanish, and neither one spoke to him except in English. He was incompetent in three different languages.

But parents know that English is the language of success in the USA, and they want their children to learn it.

I have also taught adult ESL and am teaching it now. The history of immigration shows that the first generation learns it somewhat, but by the third generation, everyone is assimilated and speaks English fluently. Research shows that it takes an AVERAGE of two years to learn basic survival English and an AVERAGE of seven years to learn language sufficient to function academically. Since this is average, this means that some people take longer.

Just like everything else, some people are better at learning a new language than others. I am crappy at basketball, despite being tall. Luckily for me, basketball is not a survival skill. Some people, as much as they want to learn English, have a very hard time with it. Some give up.

Let's not give up the idea of diversity. Some of us may live to see Spanish become the majority language of the USA. Would we then want it to be voted the national language? One of the first mottos of the USA was "e pluribus unum," (not in English, note, but Latin), which means, "out of the many comes one." Diversity is a strength, not a weakness.

thatothergirljen
07-27-2007, 01:34 AM
I am fine with English being the "official language," but I also think children should start learning MORE than one other language AND at an earlier age. European children are taking three languages in elementary school. Why aren't we?

Sh0t
07-27-2007, 09:13 AM
The vote was over printing the federal laws in German as well as English, not to make German the official language. The idea of the German official language actually came from racists against Germans hoping to use the myth to incite natives against the waves of immigrants coming in the mid-late 1800s. The feeling was minorities could subvert the country, and this myth was used as "proof".

The vote also occurred in 1795, long after the Continental Congress disbanded.

I'm glad to know even teachers with 30 years of experience are repeating such mis truths, though.

CuriousJ
07-27-2007, 09:38 AM
Which one? There's American Sign language, Australian Sign Language... it's not universal either. ;)

I didn't know this interesting .

PaigeDWinter
07-27-2007, 11:26 AM
I never met any parent who did not desperately want their child to learn English. Some would not even speak Spanish in the home because they did not want their child to learn it, with the result that the child grew up not knowing any language very well. I had one student who had a father who spoke German, and a mother who spoke Spanish, and neither one spoke to him except in English. He was incompetent in three different languages.





When I was in elementary school, the schools didn't want the kids to speak second languages. They never dreamed of teaching them in class, and tried their very best to convince parents to NOT speak them to their children/allow their children to primarily speak the other language at home. They wanted the kids to focus 100% on learning their English. Hell, now I forget 99.99999% of the Italian, German, and Arabic I knew when I was teeny.

FrustratedBunny
07-27-2007, 07:43 PM
I thought English was the official language of the US?

I'm going to sound like an asshole, but I feel that it should be. If I go to France I expect to need to speak French. Same goes for Mexico or Italy or whatever. If I go there I'd expect that I need to learn the language so why should it be so different here?

dlabtot
07-27-2007, 08:03 PM
I've been working on my French for a few years, so I vote for French as the official language of the US. I'm already fluent in English, so that's not enough challenge...

Well that's a joke, of course, but I think all kids should start learning a second language in first grade, and a third language in ninth.

UtahMike
07-27-2007, 10:42 PM
The vote was over printing the federal laws in German as well as English, not to make German the official language. The idea of the German official language actually came from racists against Germans hoping to use the myth to incite natives against the waves of immigrants coming in the mid-late 1800s. The feeling was minorities could subvert the country, and this myth was used as "proof".

The vote also occurred in 1795, long after the Continental Congress disbanded.

I'm glad to know even teachers with 30 years of experience are repeating such mis truths, though.
You are right, and I apologize for the mistake. It was something someone told me once, and I made the mistake of not checking it out. It is not something I have taught in class.

However, my mistake does not make me change my mind about what I said: the United States has always been and should always be a multilingual nation.


I'm going to sound like an asshole, but I feel that it should be. If I go to France I expect to need to speak French.

Are you sure you won't need to speak Basque or Arabic when you go to France?

maximvsv
07-28-2007, 01:46 AM
There are people in the federal service who have been demoted because they didn't speak Spanish.

There are kids in lower Florida who can no longer get summer jobs unless they speak Spanish simply to work with all the illegals.

There is incredible expense in California schools printing out everything in multiple languages. Other states hire interpreters to print out the same materials in different print runs in different languages.

The human race achieved what it has so far because people can speak to each other. We are quickly creating a country in which no one can even understand each other. Where there is no understanding, there is little chance for peace.

If one doesn't want English, the language that tied us all together for the last 200 years and built this nation to be what it is, to be the "official" language - then one should be prepared for the literal destruction of this nation as it is now.

It seems to me that the issue is just a cost one, which will result in a rascist outcome. If there is one national language, then all of the government documents, including all public school documents, tax forms, government service applications, permits, notices, and such, will have to be printed in that language. Then there will be budgetary pressure to eliminate translations, and having one national language makes it easier to explain why something isn't going to be published in Hindi.

I like the idea of an official language, but I think any attempt at it is going to go disastrously awry.