View Full Version : question for customers on "popping the question"
Pretty_Penny
07-24-2007, 01:57 PM
on the money issue:
most guys know we don't get paid to be there. i'd say at least 95% of them know that. the ones who are cheap don't -care-. they think they "deserve" to be there regaurdless of how much they spend. also, a wide majority of "those types" think that guys that spend money on us are "stupid". they have the "i'm not giving my money to you stupid stippers" attitude and they think they're "funny" or they're "winning the game" by coming in and being cheap.
and unfortunately, they are an increasing breed.
IMO clubs should -absolutely- kick guys out who aren't at least tipping after 30 minutes.
if you haven't spend -any- money on -any- girl after being there that long you either
#1 aren't happy with the girls/club and should leave anyway
or
#2 are cheap and/or disrespectfull and should leave
*edit* i will make an exception... customers who come in and spend good money at the bar (tipping the bartender well) or who come in specifically to see the bartender... while slightly annoying (to me..heh) are acceptable so long as they aren't rude to the dancers.
but anyone who sits anywhere near the stage for more than that without tipping, should definately be out. if they stopped letting guys "get a free show" the cheap bastards would stop comming in.
bem401
07-24-2007, 03:36 PM
on the money issue:
most guys know we don't get paid to be there. i'd say at least 95% of them know that. the ones who are cheap don't -care-. they think they "deserve" to be there regaurdless of how much they spend. also, a wide majority of "those types" think that guys that spend money on us are "stupid". they have the "i'm not giving my money to you stupid stippers" attitude and they think they're "funny" or they're "winning the game" by coming in and being cheap.
and unfortunately, they are an increasing breed.
IMO clubs should -absolutely- kick guys out who aren't at least tipping after 30 minutes.
if you haven't spend -any- money on -any- girl after being there that long you either
#1 aren't happy with the girls/club and should leave anyway
or
#2 are cheap and/or disrespectfull and should leave
*edit* i will make an exception... customers who come in and spend good money at the bar (tipping the bartender well) or who come in specifically to see the bartender... while slightly annoying (to me..heh) are acceptable so long as they aren't rude to the dancers.
but anyone who sits anywhere near the stage for more than that without tipping, should definately be out. if they stopped letting guys "get a free show" the cheap bastards would stop comming in.
I can understand your frustration but unfortunately management is probably more interested in collecting cover charges and selling overpriced drinks. I know that doesn't do the girls much good but it is the nature of the business. In fact, they'd probably rather the guy spend on drinks than girls.
I do agree though that guys who are obnoxious or just there for the free show need to move on.
bem401
07-24-2007, 03:46 PM
This same customer goes to a strip club, pays a cover charge, nurses one beer all ight, and watches all the hot chicks take off their clothes. He feels no guilt, because he thinks they all got a percentage of his cover charge, not realizing that all of it went to the club or the manager.
That's why many of them do not tip for the stage show. The only way around this is to eddicate them. And, of course, some of them are just cheap.
I doubt he thinks that at all. He's just cheap or clueless, most likely cheap.
xdamage
07-24-2007, 04:01 PM
I can understand your frustration but unfortunately management is probably more interested in collecting cover charges and selling overpriced drinks. I know that doesn't do the girls much good but it is the nature of the business. In fact, they'd probably rather the guy spend on drinks than girls.
Sure, I was going to write the same thing. Bottom line is the club is in business for the club. And from the customers POV, it's not even so clear that the show is "free". If they perceive the SC as a bar with eye candy, then they pay for the eye candy in the form of a cover charge (upwards of $30 in Vegas) and overpriced water downed drinks. That wouldn't fly in a plain old bar if there wasn't something extra. In this case the customer may perceive the eye candy as why they are paying extra.
Like bem said, I can understand your frustration, but I also don't think customers are as aware of the financial situation as you may think they are. To the dancers it's obvious how it works, but many customers it never enters their minds. All they know is they walk into this place to have fun, and everyone wants money, but as for who is paying who, and how much, that's about as interesting too them as it is any old bar, restaurant, or any other form of paid for entertainment. All they really know is what is on the price sheet (e.g., LDs cost $20s) and that it's considered good form (but not legally required in many venues) too tip. Personally I think not tipping (e.g., at the tip rail) sucks badly, but tips are considered optional (even if its sucky not to do so) in many settings.
Svelt
07-24-2007, 04:42 PM
If I am in a sampling mood, I want them to come ask me.
However with my current fav, I ask her, well really by mutual agreement I am supposed to hunt her down when she isn't paying attention and scoop her up off to VIP. Which really is alot of fun. :) I rarely make it all the way to her before she sees me coming, but on the rare occasion, the squeal and the way she clings to me is well worth it.
CalifSCVisitor65
07-24-2007, 09:07 PM
I like asking myself, but this just happened to me over the weekend in Honolulu. I went up to the stage to tip her a $5 while no one else was at the stage. I told her to look for me when she was done. Then on the 3rd song of her 3-song set, I went up and tipped all together another $20 and told her to find me when she's done with her set.
WTF happens?
She goes to some other table, puts her top on, sits and chats for a bit and does a couple of table dances for the couple. My buddy and I are sitting there shaking our heads like what the f*ck. She could have told me that she had someone waiting, but no. >:(
Finally about 10-15 mins later, she realizes that she forgot about me and starts looking for me. I don't wave or motion to her at all because I'm annoyed already. So she walks (behind) right by me without seeing me and finally spots me after she makes a whole oval/round through the club. I got a 3-$100 set, but that was it.
Ladies if a custy goes to tip you on stage (twice) and asks you to find him when you're done, please have some courtesy to tell us that you have someone waiting, "do you mind waiting a bit?"
She got lucky and found me in time because I was ready to bail to another cutie that happened to be on a stage near me.
if I say no thank you please just excuse yourself and move on. Don't ask why. Don't start slamming other dancers and PLEASE do not start whining that you are having a lousy shift and can't pay your bills. Believe it or not, none of these things is an incentive for us to change our minds and whisk you off to VIP...
I usually go to see a regular but you never know...some afternoons my fav isn't at the club and I really want a few dances before I leave. The lady who has approached me politely, has a pleasant demeanor and has not been nagging every fifteen minutes all afternoon is most likely going to be the gal I look for when I am ready to spend some cash.
As usual, Yoda is right on the money with these comments. At one of the clubs that I frequent, I usually get dances from several dancers, but I am primarily there to see my ATF, and most of the regular girls know that. There is one dancer in particular that I seldom get dances from because she's really not my type; she knows that and is cool with it. But, she always stops by my table with a big smile and hello, asking how I am, asking if my gal knows I'm there yet, and offering to let her know I'm in the house. Now that is a class act that I truly appreciate and remember.
As for the original poll question, I generally prefer to be asked although I learned a long time ago that sometimes the waiting game doesn't pay off, so if I see someone I'm interested in I will always tip her on stage and ask her to come over. Other than that, it seems to me that walking up to a dancer who is not on stage, and tapping her on the shoulder to ask her to join me just comes across as looking a bit desperate. This is especially the case if a dancer is sitting with other dancers chatting. Some are happy to be approached so directly, while others look at you like you just interrupted their favorite TV show. That second reaction is probably why more dancers don't get approached directly more often, and then wonder why they aren't selling more dances!
Pretty_Penny
07-24-2007, 10:26 PM
I can understand your frustration but unfortunately management is probably more interested in collecting cover charges and selling overpriced drinks. I know that doesn't do the girls much good but it is the nature of the business. In fact, they'd probably rather the guy spend on drinks than girls.
I do agree though that guys who are obnoxious or just there for the free show need to move on.
i know WHY they let the customers stay, i'm not an idiot. :P i just think more clubs shouldn't (some don't) and that girls should push management toward those thoughts.
besides, if the girls leave.... why the hell would guys buy the over priced drinks in the first place? the girls have the power in this industry. unfortunately, enough of them don't know it or don't want to work together.
Pretty_Penny
07-24-2007, 10:27 PM
OK, I'm going to claim another exception here of someone who comes in to see a specific girl who might be tied up in a room for an hour or more. If I'm waiting around like that, I generally won't sit at the stage unless it's, say, half full or less - I just don't like the crowded feeling. If I spot a girl I know, I may wander up with a few dollars, but that's not a sure thing with turnover recently.
oh i agree with that, but in those cases, the customer can just say "i'm waiting for soandso" and it shouldn't be a problem. i have no issue with those customers. actually, anyone who'd wait like that is probably a keeper.
hearts
07-25-2007, 12:08 AM
I always approach the table, but I DO NOT sit down unless I am invited to. I ask a friendly question to start a light chat. I figure that 2 minutes of chat is enough of an OPPORTUNITY for him to ask me for a dance. If the customer does not ask after 2 minutes, but appears interested in me, I will solicit a dance. Because I am standing, it gives the impression that I'm only "stopping by" and I am a busy/popular girl. If the customer's answer is "maybe later" or "not now" or "we'll see" then I'll say "I'll check on you in a little while, then, " smile and be on my way.
Often, when I go back to "check" on them, they are more than ready for that dance!
Yoda, you are right on with the attitude comments. Being grumpy with customers gets you nowhere. They will likely not get a dance and will remember your negativity next time they visit the club.
bem401
07-25-2007, 05:56 AM
i know WHY they let the customers stay, i'm not an idiot. :P i just think more clubs shouldn't (some don't) and that girls should push management toward those thoughts.
besides, if the girls leave.... why the hell would guys buy the over priced drinks in the first place? the girls have the power in this industry. unfortunately, enough of them don't know it or don't want to work together.
The problem is, especially if business is slow, the club needs those non-tippers to keep buying their drinks. If you threw all the non-tippers out, the club would probably lose 1/4 of their drink revenue and 1/4 of their door fees. You are right, without the girls there would not be customers willing to overpay for drinks, but consider that without the non-tippers, there might not be over-priced drinks to buy.
I agree that it would be a better place to work if the guys who waste your time and look for a free show were eliminated. I would also argue though that the girls have very little power in the industry. You may have some power over the customers you entertain but most clubs treat the girls like property and will continue to do so as long as there is another pretty girl willing to take the place of anyone who upsets the applecart, so to speak. I'm not saying that to be mean but it is the reality in most places for most dancers.
jaizaine
07-25-2007, 06:09 AM
I can understand your frustration but unfortunately management is probably more interested in collecting cover charges and selling overpriced drinks. I know that doesn't do the girls much good but it is the nature of the business. In fact, they'd probably rather the guy spend on drinks than girls.
I do agree though that guys who are obnoxious or just there for the free show need to move on.
oh here here.
clubs dont give a shit whether guys are spending on the dancers or not.
my club for instance, last friday night made us girls stay on the floor (we cant leave til we are signed off podiums for the night) until 5am when there were not many customers and NO customers spending on dancers. As long as the bar is getting money, the club stays open.
On the other hand one night i had a customer who just couldnt get enough of my dances. he was giving me $150 at a time and was already up to about the $700 mark and still spending and i was told by management to wrap it up.
Hmmmm let me see no one was buying drinks so screw it if I am doing well.
So were a few other dancers.
Ass hole management.
yoda57us
07-25-2007, 07:41 AM
besides, if the girls leave.... why the hell would guys buy the over priced drinks in the first place? the girls have the power in this industry. unfortunately, enough of them don't know it or don't want to work together.
Well, I can't totally agree with this. The girls are obviously a huge factor in a strip club making money but, over the last generation or so, club owners have succeeded in usurping a fair amount of "power" from the ladies. House fees, fines, two for ones, t-shirt dances, drink hustles, etc. all put money in the pocket of the owners without really adding to the dancer's bottom line. Sure all of these gimmicks are designed to attract business but none of them assure a generous customer who will come in and spend money on the ladies.
A club makes it's money primarily from alcohol sales and secondarily from cover charges and dancer fees. The vast majority of employees-bartenders, bouncers, house mothers and DJ's are tip-based so the clubs payroll is minimal. All of this is done to assure that management has to do little more than remember to unlock the front door every day to make a profit.
Not so for the dancers obviously. Guys who don't buy drinks will get thrown out of a lot of club. Guys who don't buy dances or tip at the stage never will.
Dancers can control where they choose to work but ultimately they have to work somewhere in order to make a living. They have to abide by whatever silly rules a given club may force on them like it or not...or move on.
I'm not saying I like it since lousy customers put my favorite ladies in a bad mood sometimes but I don't see it changing. I don't really see a grass roots movement by dancers to change any of this. As it is there is too much jealousy among many of the ladies to form a common front against management.
xdamage
07-25-2007, 08:40 AM
I'm not saying I like it since lousy customers put my favorite ladies in a bad mood sometimes but I don't see it changing. I don't really see a grass roots movement by dancers to change any of this. As it is there is too much jealousy among many of the ladies to form a common front against management.
Same. I mean I guess it could happen, but not under the current circumstances where every girl works for themselves. Employees can often negotiate with managements, but there are costs to these things, like people in unions often find that part of the deal ends up being that their own income is limited by what is negotiated, and often shared among the union and other employees. Of course some tip oriented business' work this way - tips are shared, but even that doesn't come free. Invariably the hardest workers who contribute the most to the tip pool feel ripped off.
I suppose some ex-strippers could start their own clubs and run them the way they think they should be run. Problem is human nature. When you are actually in the position of laying down your own dollars to fund a club, and on-call 24/7 to deal with problems, pay all the bills, have to keep everyone happy, pay the employees, keep the bar stocked, keep the place insured and in good repair, deal with lawsuits, etc., it's easy to lose site of the original goal and start thinking like a club owner who just wants to earn as much as possible, screw the dancers who come and go.
Pretty_Penny
07-25-2007, 09:52 AM
i think i was misunderstood.
what i'm saying is, the girls don't currently -have- most of the power in the industry, but they -could-. what i meant was, the industry is nothing without the girls. if more of us would realize that, we'd be in better shape.
xdamage
07-25-2007, 10:31 AM
what i'm saying is, the girls don't currently -have- most of the power in the industry, but they -could-. what i meant was, the industry is nothing without the girls. if more of us would realize that, we'd be in better shape.
True, and it's really the same in most Employee<->Employeer relationships. Unless people are just falling head over heals to fill job vacancies, the employees do have potential power. Problem is exercising it requires a cooperative effort.
bem401
07-25-2007, 10:38 AM
i think i was misunderstood.
what i'm saying is, the girls don't currently -have- most of the power in the industry, but they -could-. what i meant was, the industry is nothing without the girls. if more of us would realize that, we'd be in better shape.
That's nothing more than wishful thinking on your part. I hardly think empowering the girls to call the shots would improve things. The bottom line is you girls are less co-workers than you are competition for each other and you're all competing for the same thing- the $$$ in the guys pockets. Human nature dictates that some girls will lower prices and others will provide more, to get that $$$. When the pricing is left up to the girls and market forces, the prices seem to go down. Its happened here when a certain club took a hands-off approach to pricing dances ( beyond the club's cut, that is ). I think you'll just have to accept the good with the bad in this line of work.
xdamage
07-25-2007, 01:41 PM
...Human nature dictates that... I think you'll just have to accept the good with the bad in this line of work.... Or accept a tradeoff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade-off
Seems like a simple thing but it's really key to why complex systems, particular economic systems are not easily changed. There are always trade offs, and predicting the negatives along with the apparent positives is what makes it interesting. Like I remember when in California renters were arguing for increased school taxes for owners of rental property... it was such a duh, but they won, and of course all that happened is that the extra tax burden was then passed onto the renters, many of whom were the people who could least afford it. Anyway... there is a fairly complex balance of power and economics in the SCs. Short of human club owners suddenly becoming more generous just because, I also really don't see any dramatic improvements for dancers in the future unless by some miracle they get a grass roots movement going and work together vigorously. But as long as other girls are willing to work under the current conditions, I don't see how that would happen. And you're right about LD prices would probably go way down if dancers were allowed to set their own prices - competition predicts that.
Lapaholic
07-25-2007, 05:45 PM
^^^ Just playing devils advocate --- but dont club owners have enormous legal bills. THey have to constantly be on top of law changes, zoning boards, abc laws and what not. While it may seem all they do is open the doors, I think there is a lot going on in the background. Not to mention culling those mobs connections and paying off the LE ;)
Pretty_Penny
07-25-2007, 05:52 PM
That's nothing more than wishful thinking on your part. I hardly think empowering the girls to call the shots would improve things. The bottom line is you girls are less co-workers than you are competition for each other and you're all competing for the same thing- the $$$ in the guys pockets. Human nature dictates that some girls will lower prices and others will provide more, to get that $$$. When the pricing is left up to the girls and market forces, the prices seem to go down. Its happened here when a certain club took a hands-off approach to pricing dances ( beyond the club's cut, that is ). I think you'll just have to accept the good with the bad in this line of work.
did i SAY it was likely?
yoda57us
07-25-2007, 05:59 PM
i think i was misunderstood.
what i'm saying is, the girls don't currently -have- most of the power in the industry, but they -could-. what i meant was, the industry is nothing without the girls. if more of us would realize that, we'd be in better shape.
Yes, there would be no strip clubs without strippers but the supply of strippers doesn't seem to be drying up so the industry is in no danger. The sad fact is that club management is less strict about who they will hire now than they ever have been. This doesn't help the situation for either the dancers or the customers but again, the club makes money even on an ugly or overweight dancer and doesn't really care if the dancer makes any money or not.
It's important to remember that most strip club owners are really just BAR owners. Some bars have live music, some have DJ's, some have comedians and some have live naked women. In all of these situations the entertainer does not hold the power, the club does.
If customers would stay away from clubs with ugly dancers and pretty dancer refused to work in clubs where they are treated poorly things might change...but I'm not holding my breath...
lopaw
07-26-2007, 08:03 PM
I answered that I like to be asked tho lately I have been doing the asking. If I ask, its at the stage while tipping. Otherwise I will chill and wait to see who approaches. While thats is my normal MO - it may change depending on the club.
This is pretty much my MO, too.
GeorgeBailey
08-12-2007, 10:05 AM
I answered that I like the girl to ask. But, if I get a good vibe or have a good stage interaction, I don't mind asking.
I can't imagine why someone would take offense at the idea of the girl asking...they're at work to make money, after all.
Katrine
08-12-2007, 11:21 AM
50 Customers in a night like to be approached
10 Customers outright rudely say no (some even get off on that alone)
-5 Of those bitch about it. ("I didn't come here for pussy" yes, I heard this)
-1 actually tip a dollar at the rail/approach
10 Customers Politely say No, requesting later attention
-5 Of those customers leave
-2 tip at the rail
-1 Actually follows through on it.
10 Customers keep the dancer around chatting on the hope of a dance.
-5 Politely Refuse
.-3 Hammer for Extras
-3 Refuse lightly, tipping for conversation
-2 Buy dances
-1 Buy multiples
10 Customers Buy Dances
-5 Buy Multiples
.-2 Hammer for Extras
-2 Buy V.I.P.
.-2 Hammer for Extras
-2 Buy 1
.-1 Can't Pay
10 Customers never see the approach from specific dancers for random other reasons
Masty, my love. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I disagree with your stats. Since you pulled them out of your ass, I presume? Do you really pay that much attention to what the other customers are doing?
Here's something more accurate:
6 hour shift.
Girl dances for 3 guys an hour.
18 men.
Probably 4 ask her for dances outright.
2 grab her as she's walking by, one asks her at a stage, the final one asks a waitress to get her.
The rest are based on her approach. Out of 14 men who say yes, the same amount say no. Why they say no ,or maybe later, doesn't matter.
Seriously, there are a myriad of reasons why guys say no. All that matters is that she makes the effort to play the numbers and approach as many as possible.
So...if she had NOT been working the room, she would have danced for 4 men in a shift versus 18. Its easier to pull $40-$200 from 18 men, than $200-$300 from 4.
Mastridonicus
08-13-2007, 02:41 PM
Katrine,
Agreed, though I based that generalization someplace...my ass often spews equal drivel. HOWEVER, it was only to push my point, that no matter WHAT the actual numbers are, the customer approaches far less dancers in a visit than the dancer approaches the customer.
Due to the inherent variables involved in the dancer doing her job, and approaching guys, it's understandable why the dancer being approached is a breath of fresh air as the risks of the situation (in the dancer's mind) are diffused.
I know I illustrated it poorly. Just the mindset of the dancer is different when guy X comes up and grabs her and does the work, is all so customers really shouldn't feel bad if they aren't approached for a while or have to approach the dancer of their liking. My humble opinion only. But I'm a go-get-her. :D PUN.
If you do put your finger on it...keep in mind...it IS my ass we're talking about.
Macnee2
08-17-2007, 04:23 AM
OK, to answer the original post, I've found after hanging around regularly in numerous SC's where I live, is that if the dancer upon spotting me has not made some form of contact, even if it's just waving madly from a podium, then she really doesn't care to dance for me and as a result, if I were to approach her, I'd be getting a short, lazy air dance for my trouble. I make an exception to this rule if I have been tied up with other girls hustling or whatever, because they can't approach if there's another girl working the guy.
It's weird. i like to tip a girl on stage, and then have her come over and talk to me. Generally if I really like a girl I'll give her a little extra on stage.
For some reason I feel like a sex offender when i actually ask a girl. Which is odd because several girls have told me they prefer it when guys approach them.
I'm just wacky.
Star Player
09-08-2007, 07:55 PM
Either is fine with me. There are times I have seen a dancer at the bar or on the floor and just had to have dances with her. Most I have approached have responded very positively if not been flattered. Be polite, compliments help, and make sure she is not already occupied with a customer. Offering to buy her a drink helps. One I approached like this told me (after I had spent about $300 on her and was leaving the club) that meeting me made her day and that when I approached her it made her feel special. When would I be coming back she wanted to know.
hustlebunny
09-10-2007, 11:39 PM
Hmmm vedy vedy enlightening...i don't usually lurk over here on the customer board but I may do this more often. I try to bring up VIP with everyone i talk to...I'm not a wanna dance girl so I feel like if a guy is going to do VIP he is if he isn't he isn't won't know if i don't ask. I definately feel some guys slink away like i'm trying to hustle them and others are AMAZINGLY easy so i figure why not just go for it...We both have a better time!