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View Full Version : Gentlemen that pay for sex, your views?



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xdamage
08-15-2007, 11:19 AM
I'm conflicted about prostitution. ...I know how taxing just stripping can feel, and I can not imagine how it would feel to have to actually be fucked by some of the characters we deal with in the club... More women that prostitute do so because their options are limited, not because they love the work....What's depressing is that it's motivated by extreme poverty. It haunts me to know that so many women there have absolutely no other options.

That's what I meant when I wrote in my reply that there is a valid argument that it can have a psychological toll on providers, and that many end up doing not because it's what they want, but because they are motivated out of poverty.

The problem of course is that it goes on anyway, and even when you find people that are in favor of legalization, many of those are not in favor of decriminalization. The counter argument is that if we really believe two adults should be able to have sex for love, or money, why require legal standards? One argument is that it's needed to prevent the spread of disease, but people have unsafe sex all the time in non-paid for situations. It's dumb, but it's not a crime. Why waste law enforcement on it? Why not just let the providers decide if they want to work in a setting that requires them be tested, and requires all customers use condoms? Let customers decide if they want to use providers that work in safe practice establishments. Hey, even safe practice establishments is no guarantee. Even then providers can still get a disease from the SOs outside the job, and even then, tests may not reveal recently caught diseases. And some diseases like genital warts can be passed on even with condoms if there is adjacent skin to skin contact.

Anyway I have no answers, but I think somewhere in all the muck we are aware that like using drugs, some handle it just fine and take safe amounts, while others are self destructive and should have no part of it. Aware that on the one hand we have laws and good arguments in favor of discouraging everyone, but on the other people do it anyway and we're wasting a huge amount of time and money trying to prevent something that often harms no one. Tough stuff to figure out.

JustJayda
08-15-2007, 11:24 AM
We all hear stories of the empowered prostitute, but I highly doubt that's the majority. More women that prostitute do so because their options are limited, not because they love the work.



Dunno if I agree with this...totally. I mean maybe outside the states this is true, but to me you're saying the same caveman shit that men say about strippers.

Either they can't do anything else, or they love being a prostitute....and are you saying that the "empowered prostitute" loves her work?

You removed the entire "earning potential for time worked equation" as a factor of the choice.:-\

Yekhefah
08-15-2007, 11:26 AM
The psychological toll argument doesn't hold water to me. As has been said, it's going to happen anyway; women are already resorting to prostitution out of financial desperation. So the question is, should we continue to compound their problems by making criminals out of them? If you're desperate enough to sell yourself when you don't want to, I fail to see how it helps matters to also have to hide from the law, risk prison, suffer police abuse, and try to improve your situation with a sex offense on your record. Criminalization isn't protecting anyone.

scarlett_vancouver
08-15-2007, 01:56 PM
I'm down with escorts, and down with men using the services of escorts. As long as: the escort has freely made the choice to enter that line of work, and the man is not hiding it from any other sexual partner.

xdamage
08-15-2007, 01:58 PM
...I fail to see how it helps matters to also have to hide from the law, risk prison, suffer police abuse, and try to improve your situation with a sex offense on your record. Criminalization isn't protecting anyone.

I guess the counter argument is (and not saying I agree, just playing devils advocate) that the laws discourage those in poverty from choosing prostitution as a solution. In theory they will choose other jobs, school, etc., over the prostitution route IF the laws discourage it. That starts with the assumption though that prostitution is a bad thing as compared with other things one might do.

Therein lies a quandry though. As we've discussed on the blue side a few times, even on stripper web where we have many women that are exceptionally liberal, many still take pride in noting that they don't extras and don't want them in their clubs. It does seem that even among the liberal, a lot of us have been raised to draw a line at prostitution. Even Jerry Springer's guests toss around the word "whore" as an insult. For me it's clear our society still heavily frowns on prostitution, so in effect the devil's advocate argument is that if we decriminalize it, we are encouraging it vs discouraging it (in some vague hope that those in poverty will choose other options that are less lucrative, but also not viewed in the same negative way we view prostitutes).

Like I said, I'm on the fence myself about what I believe, but both sides make arguments that make sense (depending on which POV you want to take).

Yekhefah
08-15-2007, 02:39 PM
We can discourage certain behaviors without persecuting (yes, persecuting) those who do them anyway. Like smoking, for example. I think it's obvious that smoking is becoming less and less socially acceptable, but those who smoke aren't thrown in jail, raped by police, or denied future gainful employment because they have a smoking conviction. And in a free society, supporting the right to make choices means we sometimes have to support those who make choices we don't like.

Cyndi08
08-15-2007, 03:00 PM
I don't think prostitution should be illegal. I can, however, find negatives to it:

1. underage girls getting in the business early to make easy money
2. deadly diseases, condom use would need to be more prevalent culturally IMO
3. pimping/abuse

At the very most, if the government wants to make it illegal, they should assess fines instead of imprisonment... wait, that would be called "taxing"

*sigh*

Cyndi08
08-15-2007, 03:06 PM
Women who hate hookers are unrealistic and insecure. LOL No seriously, women should always be compensated for sex- the feminist idea of f*cking for free is one of the most destructive shoot-youself-in-the-foot actions women do to themselves.

I don't think any woman gives it away for free. She either has expectations of some sort from her partner that she demands (mutual orgasm, dates, friend, whatever) or she is losing something through the transaction... like he steals from her rather than compensates her for it (if he is abusive, mean, hurtful, etc).

Everything can be seen as a transaction.

shakti
08-15-2007, 04:31 PM
We can discourage certain behaviors without persecuting (yes, persecuting) those who do them anyway. Like smoking, for example. I think it's obvious that smoking is becoming less and less socially acceptable, but those who smoke aren't thrown in jail, raped by police, or denied future gainful employment because they have a smoking conviction. And in a free society, supporting the right to make choices means we sometimes have to support those who make choices we don't like.

I agree with this. My comments weren't about the legality aspect, just voicing my views on some of the the pros and cons of prostitution as I see it. I do see JustJayda's point that the same stereotypes are also said about strippers.

Yet, as strippers we are so adamant that we are NOT prostitutes. Is the reason that most of us don't want to give bj's in VIP only because it's illegal? How many times do we see complaints about extras clubs, about how emotionally draining those types of clubs can be? With the "earning potential for time worked equation" so high, why do most of us still not want to do this work ourselves?

Yekhefah
08-15-2007, 04:36 PM
Sure, prostitution is hard on most people. That's WHY they can make so much money. If anyone could fuck for cash and have no problems with it, everyone would be doing it and no one would make much. Same with being a coal miner; it's an incredibly risky, draining profession that comes with a lot of health problems and other complications, and that's why the few who are willing to do it make a pretty good living. That doesn't mean we need to INCREASE the problems that come with it.

I just don't get the argument that a certain profession is very hard on those who choose it, so we should make it even harder on them by subjecting those people to prison, unemployability, rape, disease, and violence - and in the name of "protecting" them? That makes no sense. Prostitution is hard enough on the providers, and we're not doing anything with criminalization except making it worse.

miabella
08-15-2007, 05:50 PM
it is better to have work available that is not sex-based rather than focus on 'improving conditions'. most people fucking for money do not want 'improved conditions'-- they want to not be fucking for money, as simple as that.

so in the short term, you improve conditons, and in the long term, you find a way to make sure nobody in your society has to have sex for money, or feels they have to.

Sh0t
08-15-2007, 06:07 PM
^^^That sounds cute and metaphorical and all, but it just ain't true.

When's the last time you went out hunting for some play? I personally gave it up because it was WAY too much trouble. The whole pick-up thing takes a whole fucking night if not days or weeks and LOTS of money for drinks, dinner, etc. There are all sorts of human/emotional/psychological issues, mind-reading, guessing, projecting, blah, blah, blah. And then the sex usually isn't good because you have to be nice and accomodating and don't really feel comfortable asking for what you want.

I can totally see the appeal of two people coming together for a short amount of time with very, very specific terms--what will happen, how much money will be exchanged, etc.

Oh, and saying a woman's sexuality is always is commodity is practically Andrea Dworkinism. I don't think hetero sex is necessarily social exchange--although it is in MANY, MANY cases. Probably more than many people want to admit.

I go out looking for play daily. i do it as a sport.

It requires ZERO money, I assure you. Same night is not too difficult, second or third meet is usually as far as you need to go. Can't get them all, but you can get pretty close.

miabella
08-15-2007, 06:55 PM
pickups (casual sex) easily take less than an hour, for females. i'm not sure what group of people dottie is referencing as to how pickups take weeks and allathat.

even for guys, it can be pretty quick. and money costs are negligible.