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Jenny
08-25-2007, 11:20 PM
blah... blah blah... blah blah.
We GET it. You are unattractive, unaccepting of that fact, extremely bitter that pretty girls don't want you and you have to pay them to pretend and extremely angry that nasty, bad stripperweb girls aren't adequately grateful for your purely hypothetical money. And you think that that our job is easy and yours is hard. Just keep in mind, baby, that if you had to crawl all over and sexually excite someone like you - you might not find it such a walk in the park. After all - there is a reason no pretty girl wants you.

Phil-W
08-26-2007, 04:34 AM
Phil - do you understand how stupid this sounds? It's like me saying about you "He doesn't want to get paid for every single hour he works." You may get stuck doing unpaid overtime sometimes. But you probably don't enjoy the prospect, and you probably think that whoever pays you SHOULD be paying for the hours you work.

Jenny, it sounds stupid from your perspective, and understandably so.

You go into work to make $$$'s, and you are obviously determined to maximise your income. Accordingly, every customer not willing to spend money on you is a waste of your time, and you'll move on to the next suspect as soon as you realise the customer you're currently talking to is not going to spend on you.

That's a perfectly valid appraoch, and it obviously works for you.

However, I seriously doubt that you spend every working minute of your shift hustling for dances. You must take a break every now and then, or need to get the weight off of your feet for five minutes.

So what do you do - at a guess head for the dressing room. You can chat to the dancers you get on with, repair you make up, maybe grab a sandwich out of your bag. It's your way of relaxing.

I do the same thing at work: I get a 15 minute break morning and afternoon - and sometimes it can't come too soon.

You have a specific attitude to customers that prevents you relaxing with them. (Not a criticism - just an observation).

Other dancers have a different attitude - if they know and trust a customer, maybe they take a 10 or 15 minute break with him to recharge their batteries. They know they can scrounge a drink, have a non-idiot conversation and relax from the need to hustle for a while.

It suits their needs just as going to the dressing room suits yours.

As to unpaid overtime, yes I work it and sometimes I even enjoy it. Depends if what I'm working on interests me personally or not. (And I know if the boss sees me working unpaid overtime, it might impact on my next pay rise).

The solutions we pick suit us as a person. My solutions might not be the same as your solutions, but you're happy with yours and I with mine.

Phil.

mr_punk
08-26-2007, 06:30 AM
The club has menu of things that it charges for, entry fee, drinks, etc., and on that menu is lap dances. There is nothing on the menu about paying dancers for their time while they are sitting, or while they are talking, or while they are trying to make the next sale. Now if you are lucky enough to find customers willing to do that, that's great, but it's not OWED to you because your time is valuable.true. it's one of the reasons why i don't pay for convo. it's really nothing more than a big infomercial. conversely, the sexual services (ie: laps, extras, and even stage dancing) being sold in a sc has actual value. if a stripper can hustle a customer into paying for it or the customer wants to pay to hang out instead of buying dances, etc..fine. however, customers are under no obligation to pay and i don't see a refusal to pay as being discourteous no matter who initiated the contact or how brief or long it occurs. yes, i know strippers would love to be paid for convo or not have her time wasted by a non-spender, but like i said, there are no guarantees in this instance. thus, it's her obligation to make sure she's using her sales time productively. the customer isn't supposed to sit there and wipe her ass because she dropped a load of SS.

blah... blah blah... blah blah. We GET it. You are unattractive, unaccepting of that fact, extremely bitter that pretty girls don't want you and you have to pay them to pretend and extremely angry that nasty, bad stripperweb girls aren't adequately grateful for your purely hypothetical money. And you think that that our job is easy and yours is hard. Just keep in mind, baby, that if you had to crawl all over and sexually excite someone like you - you might not find it such a walk in the park. After all - there is a reason no pretty girl wants you.LOL..ah, the stripper's last resort. girls crack me up when they pull that "i'm hot and you must be a loser because you're in a sc" line in a poor attempt to make customers feel chagrined. frankly, such comments (another funny one is when they call a customer a pervert) loses all relevance in a sc because it has nothing to do with OTC interactions. more importantly, he is simply a customer who is partaking of the sevices which are being sold by said stripper in a sc.

Lapaholic
08-26-2007, 06:31 AM
X- your "Business" may be with the club BUT u go to the club for the dancers. Its like a sports team. I dont go see the Orioles cause I like Peter Angelos because he tries to field a good team or that he has a nice home park. I go to see the players play. And if they suck, I wont go!!! Who wants to see a losing team. Not too many folks - go O's...

Same thing ... I go to a strip club to see dancers... The club certainly tries to have a certain style of talent or a look or whatever - but if its stocked with not so attractive women, I wont go!!!

Otherwise - i think anyone who has done any selling can totally sympathize with what the ladies are saying. Ie - "If he wasnt gonna buy, I wished he told me so i can move on!!". I used to sell accounting and marketing systems, i totally would be pissed when I was being used to set up demos or presentations , knowing full well the customer ( dare I say custie ) had no interest or had already decided and just needed another bid. NOw I also know its was part of the game - didnt make me any less pissed - but I knew thats I still had to go to those presentations and maybe one day Id get my foot in the door.

My 2 pence - thank you ...!!! :)

crizgolfer
08-26-2007, 06:49 AM
blah... blah blah... blah blah.
We GET it. You are unattractive, unaccepting of that fact, extremely bitter that pretty girls don't want you and you have to pay them to pretend

Excellent response...when you are unable to come up with any logical response.



Keep in mind, baby, that if you had to crawl all over and sexually excite someone like you - you might not find it such a walk in the park. After all - there is a reason no pretty girl wants you.

Then why do you do it? Or is that not a discussion you would like to have?

xdamage
08-26-2007, 06:55 AM
blah... blah blah... blah blah.
We GET it.

And yea, Mr. P nailed it... the strippers last resort... I'm surprised you didn't pull the "you must suck in bed" card. That one works well on guys with no spines.

Actually you really don't get it. Your just so use to seeing everything in terms of men that you can manipulate because they'll do anything, and say anything in hopes of bettering their odds at scoring that you can't cope with men who don't. Not all of us are all that moved by a pretty face, not when behind it is a manipulative, narcissistic, immature personality. Sure we may pay for lap dances, that's physical, but not for convo because frankly there is much better convo to be had with women that don't manipulate, that don't scamper off and throw hysterical fits when they don't get their way. You know, kind of like why the Pink side has the policies that it has - JUST TELL US WHAT WE WANT TO HEAR or WE WILL BAN YOU. I'm sure that it feels "empowering", but from the outside it just looks like more of tell me what I want to hear or I'll throw a temper tantrum. However your on the blue side. Not every guy on the blue side is going to tell you only what you want to hear. The temper tantrums don't work over here (except for the PLs who are easily manipulated). It just makes the girls who do it like like spoiled brats, not attractive women.

xdamage
08-26-2007, 07:02 AM
Otherwise - i think anyone who has done any selling can totally sympathize with what the ladies are saying. Ie - "If he wasnt gonna buy, I wished he told me so i can move on!!". I used to sell accounting and marketing systems, i totally would be pissed when I was being used to set up demos or presentations , knowing full well the customer ( dare I say custie ) had no interest or had already decided and just needed another bid. NOw I also know its was part of the game - didnt make me any less pissed - but I knew thats I still had to go to those presentations and maybe one day Id get my foot in the door.

My 2 pence - thank you ...!!! :)

Both you and Yoda though seem to have forgotten the thread, and that my response was in context of the thread. The thread was about dancers who repeatedly, of their own choosing, spend time with the same customer, the one who never buys.

So why tell us about the case of the salesperson who KNOWS the customer is not going to buy, and would have rather not wasted his time to begin with? What does that have to do with the case of the dancer that week after week, every visit, comes by and CHOOSES (like an adult, which she is), to plop herself down, and have a (free) drink with the customer and chill for a few minutes?

She is an adult. If her concern is she is wasting her time, if she is really honestly pissed off that he keeps not buying anything but a drink, she is capable, as an adult, of not doing that anymore.

Also my thread was relevant to the claim that this makes the customer a douche for buying her a drink, but never buying dances. If the dancer repeatedly chooses to come back for a free drink, and it really is wasting her time, I believe this just makes the dancer a tard, or she must be okay with it, or she hysteronic and gets off on setting herself off to be pissed off at someone (drama queens do that you know).

xdamage
08-26-2007, 07:18 AM
Excellent response...when you are unable to come up with any logical response.




LOL..ah, the stripper's last resort. girls crack me up when they pull that "i'm hot and you must be a loser because you're in a sc" line in a poor attempt to make customers feel chagrined.


It's like watching little kids run up, throw a rock, and yell "poopy head" because they are is too flustered, and immature to behave rationally.



true. it's one of the reasons why i don't pay for convo. it's really nothing more than a big infomercial. conversely, the sexual services (ie: laps, extras, and even stage dancing) being sold in a sc has actual value. if a stripper can hustle a customer into paying for it or the customer wants to pay to hang out instead of buying dances, etc..fine. however, customers are under no obligation to pay and i don't see a refusal to pay as being discourteous no matter who initiated the contact or how brief or long it occurs. yes, i know strippers would love to be paid for convo or not have her time wasted by a non-spender, but like i said, there are no guarantees in this instance. thus, it's her obligation to make sure she's using her sales time productively.


That is exactly the point. More power to them if they can find guys willing to pay for convo, but it's overstepping to come to demand or expect it. I suppose I'd even say I'm okay with the notion of thinking of a customer who does pay for convo as "courteous", but that doesn't mean the customer who is not interested in paying for that is "discourteous" or a douche, or scumbag, etc. It just means he is a customer that is there for what is on the menu - the LDs.

And again, lets try to remember the context of the thread, which is about dancers who repeatedly choose ('choose' being a key word) to spend time with the same non-paying customer for a drink. If she does that visit after visit, and it really does piss her off that the customer is "wasting her time" while she continues to accept the overpriced drink, it's her problem. She needs to grow the fuck up, and take responsibility for her choice. Thinking of the customer as a douche in a situation like that is just typical drama-queen, victim mentality. Lame.

slims099
08-26-2007, 07:20 AM
I'm seriously suggestion a Men's Only section in the "Strip Club Junkie" section of the best exotic dancer community forum on the net. It's only fair. In the OP I specifically stated men only, yet women still posted anyways and aren't getting the point. This thread is a pure example of why we need a men's only section and should be noted by the moderators.

Lapaholic
08-26-2007, 07:25 AM
Both you and Yoda though seem to have forgotten the thread, and that my response was in context of the thread. The thread was about dancers who repeatedly, of their own choosing, spend time with the same customer, the one who never buys.

So why tell us about the case of the salesperson who KNOWS the customer is not going to buy, and would have rather not wasted his time to begin with? What does that have to do with the case of the dancer that week after week, every visit, comes by and CHOOSES (like an adult, which she is), to plop herself down, and have a (free) drink with the customer and chill for a few minutes?

She is an adult. If her concern is she is wasting her time, if she is really honestly pissed off that he keeps not buying anything but a drink, she is capable, as an adult, of not doing that anymore.

Also my thread was relevant to the claim that this makes the customer a douche for buying her a drink, but never buying dances. If the dancer repeatedly chooses to come back for a free drink, and it really is wasting her time, I believe this just makes the dancer a tard, or she must be okay with it, or she hysteronic and gets off on setting herself off to be pissed off at someone (drama queens do that you know).

The feeling I have gotten is that if a guys says he'll buy a dance, does the whole long convo thing and doesnt - he is a douche. And that dancers who waste their time "hoping" that they get a dance and dont are not so bright.... Of course my mind is old and i may be dreaming most of this right now!!!!!




And my example is knowing after the sales presentation ... IE finding out after or during that they dont want what u r selling. SO in that sense if a guy leads a dancer on that he "will" buy - just sit a drink for a while and then doesnt is a douche. Just like my sales example. And that has happened to me... I can understand that side of what they are saying. thats all.. BUt it is part of the game - not a fun part but part...No histrionics or drama required!!!

xdamage
08-26-2007, 07:25 AM
I doubt it will happen on the blue side. And I actually like the women's input, but the problem is the troll who watches these threads and invariably turns them into a little mini crisis about her. Happens every time, and then it devolves into those who feel they need to suck up to stay on her good side, and those that don't. Over and over, round and round it goes.

slims099
08-26-2007, 07:31 AM
I doubt it will happen on the blue side. And I actually like the women's input, but the problem is the troll who watches these threads and invariably turns them into a little mini crisis about her. Happens every time, and then it devolves into those who feel they need to suck up to stay on her good side, and those that don't. Over and over, round and round it goes.

I'm beginning to understand what you mean. I guess I'll learn to never make a "MENS ONLY" post again because either way it'll be invaded. I don't mind a few women's input but this is way out of hand. I expected at most like 10 responses from 10 different guys and a few women saying "sure i like to sit with certain guys for a minute". Nothing like this. Welcome to the board slim.

xdamage
08-26-2007, 07:39 AM
The feeling I have gotten is that if a guys says he'll buy a dance, does the whole long convo thing and doesnt - he is a douche. And that dancers who waste their time "hoping" that they get a dance and dont are not so bright.... Of course my mind is old and i may be dreaming most of this right now!!!!!

Sure, that would be douchy, but the topic is about dancers that repeatedly visit the same customer as some kind of safe haven, or as friends or whatever. The topic is not about a customer leading a dancer on.

Hey, if you or I repeatedly visited the same non-paying customer, a customer who was spending money on a competitor, and not only that, we asked them to buy us a drink or two while we shoot the shit, I suspect us guys would do the adult thing and accept that we are the one's choosing to "waste our time" and the customers. OTOH when an immature dancer does it, she thinks the customer is a douche. Those with victim mentality see things that way. Of course it's possible that the girl just sees it as a way to get a free drink or two. She gets what she wants, the customer seems happy with it, we certainly don't need Jenny or any other mother hen to make sure that the girl or customer are getting ripped off. As adults they can make these decisions for themselves.

Lapaholic
08-26-2007, 07:47 AM
^^^Agreed!!!

Jenny
08-26-2007, 07:52 AM
LOL..ah, the stripper's last resort. girls crack me up when they pull that "i'm hot and you must be a loser because you're in a sc" line in a poor attempt to make customers feel chagrined. frankly, such comments (another funny one is when they call a customer a pervert) loses all relevance in a sc because it has nothing to do with OTC interactions. more importantly, he is simply a customer who is partaking of the sevices which are being sold by said stripper in a sc.
I would never say anything so silly - because I know it's not true. This is more like "you are obviously a loser because you obviously hate the idea of partaking of the services in a strip club and are extremely bitter about how strippers will take your money but still not respect you. Like you can their services, but not their goodwill, as it were."

slims099
08-26-2007, 07:55 AM
Sure, that would be douchy, but the topic is about dancers that repeatedly visit the same customer as some kind of safe haven, or as friends or whatever. The topic is not about a customer leading a dancer on.

Hey, if you or I repeatedly visited the same non-paying customer, a customer who was spending money on a competitor, and not only that, we asked them to buy us a drink or two while we shoot the shit, I suspect us guys would do the adult thing and accept that we are the one's choosing to "waste our time" and the customers. OTOH when an immature dancer does it, she thinks the customer is a douche. Those with victim mentality see things that way. Of course it's possible that the girl just sees it as a way to get a free drink or two. She gets what she wants, the customer seems happy with it, we certainly don't need Jenny or any other mother hen to make sure that the girl or customer are getting ripped off. As adults they can make these decisions for themselves.

With my situation, my ATF (as most dancers) knows when to sit and knows when to leave and make money. Same thing happened last night. It was great cause she bought food and a drink of mine, was really sweet of her. Then after about an hour, after we got done eating, chatting and the like, she left to go make money and I guarantee you she did very well last night. We both benefited since she wanted someone to sit with while she ate, try eating back in the dressing room with 15 other girls eating and bitching, and BLAH!! I benefited merely from a few drinks and chatting with someone I really enjoy chatting with. I am security for her (in a way) but it's not something I'm getting an ego about or anything. I don't think of it like, "WOW, the hottest girl in the club does this and that for me, I'm a super pimp." It's not like that at all.

Was funny cause a guy came up to me last night after she left and asked if I was her boyfriend hahaha. I'm like No, she treats to something nice every once and awhile. I think he saw her pay for the food or something, but I think she got a discount for her buying it instead of me. ;D;D;D

THE POINT IS: This thread is about dancers like that, dancers you know well and have known for a long time. The reason I dont think being a security haven for your favorite dancer or whatever is BAD is because they know when to get up and leave and do their thing. Sometimes its 10 minutes, sometimes its an hour. Whatever suits their best judgment.

Jenny
08-26-2007, 07:57 AM
Excellent response...when you are unable to come up with any logical response.
Because logic is really required for those histrionics.


Then why do you do it? Or is that not a discussion you would like to have?
Now? Here? Do you actually care?

slims099
08-26-2007, 08:00 AM
Because logic is really required for those histrionics.


Now? Here? Do you actually care?

What the HELL is a histrionic. I guess I'm not smart if I don't know big mama words.

Jenny
08-26-2007, 08:01 AM
You're on the internet. Look it up.

slims099
08-26-2007, 08:03 AM
You're on the internet. Look it up.

All you need is a little slim pimpin' love. ;D

Jenny
08-26-2007, 08:04 AM
I'm sorry... I need what?

mr_punk
08-26-2007, 08:06 AM
I'm seriously suggestion a Men's Only section in the "Strip Club Junkie" section of the best exotic dancer community forum on the net. It's only fair. In the OP I specifically stated men only, yet women still posted anyways and aren't getting the point. This thread is a pure example of why we need a men's only section and should be noted by the moderators.well, first of all, i suggest you read this post (http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1147067&postcount=6). secondly, this idea was discussed in the past and was shot down pretty quickly. frankly, it's a non-issue for me. i refuse to assume the genuflection position for any stripper nor do they have to assume the position with me.

And my example is knowing after the sales presentation ... IE finding out after or during that they dont want what u r selling. SO in that sense if a guy leads a dancer on that he "will" buy - just sit a drink for a while and then doesnt is a douche. Just like my sales example. And that has happened to me... I can understand that side of what they are saying. thats all.. BUt it is part of the game - not a fun part but part...No histrionics or drama required!!!true. deals break down for one reason or another all the time. strippers may not one like it and they don't have to like it, but at the same time the customer is under no obligation to pay for it. so, one can either move on and try to be productive or one can spend their time raking each other over the coals over what they think is owed to them.

slims099
08-26-2007, 08:10 AM
I'm sorry... I need what?

IM KIDDING. nevermind. my nickname like 5 yrs ago was the slim pimp. It doesn't fit me at all. hahaha. sorry im just in a really great mood today. nevermind.

yoda57us
08-26-2007, 08:19 AM
Haven't you ever hired a private contractor, or had one phone your home looking to make a sale? If so you would know this yoda. It's a plan duh that we all know. Basic stuff. Yes, they get paid for working. What they don't get paid for is sitting around shooting the shit. They don't get paid to imbibe alcohol. And they don't get paid while they are on their own time drumming up new business.


Actually no, I've never hired a private contractor, I don't pay someone else to do something that I can do myself. I do understand how it works and you should understand that every environment that a private contractor works under is not the same. As a dancer, getting paid doesn't mean you have to be grinding some guys lap for every minute of every hour that you are in the club. You pitch, you dance (or not) and you move on. Again, this is the point of why a dancer doesn't waste time with guys she doesn't think will buy.

The rest of your response is pretty much just another verbatim re-hash of your agenda here and your attitude towards dancers in general. I'm not going to bother responding since we both know how we both feel about these issues.

I'm certainly getting what I want from dancers and from clubs clubs. If it makes you feel better to call that sucking-up then have at it. Kat thinks I'm cool and my agenda has nothing to do with impressing guys who hang out in strip clubs yet hate strippers so score two for me!

yoda57us
08-26-2007, 08:23 AM
You all are pathetic, boring scumbags...except for yodachka....

Some days I really like being me....;D

mdiver
08-26-2007, 09:06 AM
Not really. Dancers are not employees as you all keep telling us. If you want the benefits of being paid for every "hour" that you are at work, then become employees (and enjoy the consequences that you really MUST work every hour for your pay). But as private contractors, you've chosen such you won't be paid for every hour that you are there, only for every hour that you are making a sale. And he is correct that many dancers do end up just sitting around and drinking and not really working. If they think they should be paid for that it's because their immature fools that don't understand the basic notion that their time is not worth anything to anyone just because.

So now that that myth has been debunked. Let's debunk one more. Our business is with the club, not with the dancer. It's the club that owns the property. It's the club that collects the door fees. It's the club that pays for the insurance on the place, and the club that will bear the brunt of the cost and responsibility if a customer is hurt while on the premises. The club has menu of things that it charges for, entry fee, drinks, etc., and on that menu is lap dances. There is nothing on the menu about paying dancers for their time while they are sitting, or while they are talking, or while they are trying to make the next sale. Now if you are lucky enough to find customers willing to do that, that's great, but it's not OWED to you because your time is valuable. Nobody cares because OUR time is valuable. And frankly for many people in sales, they don't make squat while they are selling - they only bank if they sell. But regardless, we ALL worked our asses off, many of us without breaks, for our money, and frankly most of us just don't think talking with a girl, no matter how pretty, is worth much in terms of dollars. Be happy you can get it when you can, but value is in the eye of the beholder, and for many of us that's no value at all. You may get some extra $$s out of good will, but not because the club requires and it not because it's owed to you while you happen to be on the club's premises. Your deal with the club is between you and the club, not between you and the customer.

I agree with this. I buy lap dances and extras, I don't pay for conversation. I think that paying a dancer for her time would be like paying a car salesman for his time.

It is funny how you can always count on the female members to show up in these threads and start calling the guys douches.

Katrine
08-26-2007, 10:36 AM
Was funny cause a guy came up to me last night after she left and asked if I was her boyfriend hahaha. I'm like No, she treats to something nice every once and awhile. I think he saw her pay for the food or something, but I think she got a discount for her buying it instead of me. ;D;D;D
.


I do this all the time. Its called marketing and building customer relationship. And my company pays for it, or I deduct it from my taxes. I take out clients, prospects, their family members, etc. Ultimately I am looking for them to become clients. If they are clients, I am looking into capturing all their assets and getting referrals from them.

Now, I really do LIKE my clients, many are cool and interesting people. However, if I had a choice to spend my marketing budget chilling with my friends, or hanging out with these people, I would choose the former. Its purely business.

And I spend shitloads of money on prospects that never become clients. Or clients that don't take my advice, and don't do the things they need to do that subsequently earn me commission. Cost of doing business.

XDamage, I am really suprised, and saddened that you've lumped me in as one of "these girls." First, I am retired from stripping. Second, I NEVER expected compensation for sitting and drinking.

However, I don't think you've ever had a customer PROMISE to spend money on you, act like a piece of shit, and then waste your time. You will FEEL ripped off, because they are doing this on PURPOSE. They have strategically planned to act this way from the get go.

Its simply a bad feeling. Again, its the cost of doing business. There is nothing that can be done about these assholes, except to warn others to prevent it from happening all the time. And that's all. Why can't you have an ounce of empathy for people who waste your time that could be otherwise spent making money?

Katrine
08-26-2007, 10:39 AM
And again, lets try to remember the context of the thread, which is about dancers who repeatedly choose ('choose' being a key word) to spend time with the same non-paying customer for a drink. If she does that visit after visit, and it really does piss her off that the customer is "wasting her time" while she continues to accept the overpriced drink, it's her problem. She needs to grow the fuck up, and take responsibility for her choice. Thinking of the customer as a douche in a situation like that is just typical drama-queen, victim mentality. Lame.

You are aware that I agree with you? And so does yoda actually. And so do most of us. You are just arguing for the sake of argument.

Yoda doesn't kiss anyone's ass. He just isn't debating because he can. This is what he does. He has women who spend time with him at the club that he doesn't buy dances from. He is realistically aware that they are prospecting him, and not sitting with him because he is a funny and interesting person. Which, in fact, he is, but that's irrelevant.

Katrine
08-26-2007, 10:51 AM
The feeling I have gotten is that if a guys says he'll buy a dance, does the whole long convo thing and doesnt - he is a douche. And that dancers who waste their time "hoping" that they get a dance and dont are not so bright.... Of course my mind is old and i may be dreaming most of this right now!!!!!


And my example is knowing after the sales presentation ... IE finding out after or during that they dont want what u r selling. SO in that sense if a guy leads a dancer on that he "will" buy - just sit a drink for a while and then doesnt is a douche. Just like my sales example. And that has happened to me... I can understand that side of what they are saying. thats all.. BUt it is part of the game - not a fun part but part...No histrionics or drama required!!!

Here is where douchebaggery occurs: Dancer approaches custy. He offers her a drink and she accepts. Then she chats him up for two songs. Cost of doing business. Dancers excpects NO compensation for this time.

She pitches at song 3. Custy responds, "oh yes, I am DEFINATELY going to do dances with you. For you are a delightful creature, and I am very attacted and intrigued by your lapdance potential. Can we just wait one song, and will you PLEASE STAY?"

At the point, dancer still doesn't expect compensation, because she is still pitching. But she has gotten a "semi-firm" offer. The club is relatively quiet, so she'll take the chance. Yes, its a gamble.

Customer does this repeatedly. He promises dances (aka payment) but has some excuse to keep talking. He REQUESTS for the dancer to stay. He doesn't tell her to go make some money elswhere. This can go on for a while, until the dancer realizes that he is a fucking CON ARTIST.

A novice dancer can become victim to these men quite often. And I do believe these type of scam artists truly contribute to a lot of stripper disdain for customers, and men in general.

Even a pro, like myself after a few years, has fallen for a very convincing scammer here and there. Nothing could be done about it, but its a bad feeling. Its business, but what business owner or salesperson hasn't gotten emotional over something like this? Its human nature.


So, in conclusion....no, the customer doesn't technically owe the dancer a penny for wasting an hour of her time. However, he is still an utter fucking douchebag that deserves testicular pain. And this, my good sirs, is a POV opionion following a FACT that simply does occur. Whether you believe it or not, it happens, ALL THE TIME!!!!!

slims099
08-26-2007, 11:04 AM
I do this all the time. Its called marketing and building customer relationship. And my company pays for it, or I deduct it from my taxes. I take out clients, prospects, their family members, etc. Ultimately I am looking for them to become clients. If they are clients, I am looking into capturing all their assets and getting referrals from them.

Now, I really do LIKE my clients, many are cool and interesting people. However, if I had a choice to spend my marketing budget chilling with my friends, or hanging out with these people, I would choose the former. Its purely business.

Actually, I think she did it cause she wanted to do it. And would she do it if she knew I'd never spend another dollar on her again? Depends on the circumstance. Although I do agree, it's good business for anybody to give back to the customers.

yoda57us
08-26-2007, 11:05 AM
Yoda doesn't kiss anyone's ass. He just isn't debating because he can. This is what he does. He has women who spend time with him at the club that he doesn't buy dances from. He is realistically aware that they are prospecting him, and not sitting with him because he is a funny and interesting person. Which, in fact, he is, but that's irrelevant.

You would think I have to pay Kat to write this stuff but honestly I don't...though admittedly her memory may be clouded by all of the alcohol consumption...;D

crizgolfer
08-26-2007, 11:30 AM
In the OP I specifically stated men only, yet women still posted anyways and aren't getting the point. This thread is a pure example of why we need a men's only section and should be noted by the moderators.

Sounds quite familiar...;D

crizgolfer
08-26-2007, 11:34 AM
Now? Here? Do you actually care?

Of course I care Jenny. What would ever make you think that I wouldn't?

Phil-W
08-26-2007, 12:05 PM
Here is where douchebaggery occurs............So, in conclusion....no, the customer doesn't technically owe the dancer a penny for wasting an hour of her time. However, he is still an utter fucking douchebag that deserves testicular pain. And this, my good sirs, is a POV opionion following a FACT that simply does occur. Whether you believe it or not, it happens, ALL THE TIME!!!!!

There will be customers who treat dancers badly, and dancers who treat customers badly.

However, I'd have to say customers in the douchebag category outnumber dancers in same by 10 or 20 to 1.

There seems to be class of guy who's incapable of going into a strip venue without trying to put down the strippers; consciously or unconsciously.

Sometimes they're in a group and it's alpha male stuff: "I'm going to show the rest of the guys in my group I've got a 'cooler' attitude towards dancers than they have".

Sometimes it's a compensatory measure: "I feel personally diminished because I've got to pay to see a woman naked, therefore I'll compensate by being rude to her".

Sometimes it's even ego: "She's attracted to me, therefore why should I pay for her time".

I doubt they're aware of the dancers *real* opinion of them - after all, she can't be overtly rude to them because it may affect her earnings, particulalry if other customers are nearby. She's got to walk away before she can vent.

I suspect if they could hear the converation 30 feet away or back in the dressing room, their ears would be burning!


But it is part of the game - not a fun part but part...No histrionics or drama required!!!

All part of the game it might be, but I can still accept it is bloody annoying to a dancer. She's got bills to pay and she can only do that by selling dances.

In effect Katerine's dochebaggery amounts to restraint of trade - if you waste a dancer's time with false promises of a dance, you've cut into her earning potential and that's wrong.

If a dancer has wasted two hours on a guy who's repeatedly promised to take her to VIP, then there might just be a justification for histrionics - he's just wasted 1/3 of the time she had available on that shift to earn money.

And to go back to the original point of the thread - there's a big difference between a dancer sitting down with a customer to 'chill' for a period of time with no expectation of earning any money, and a dancer sitting down with a customer and being given a false expectation of riches to come.

Phil.

Katrine
08-26-2007, 08:24 PM
You would think I have to pay Kat to write this stuff but honestly I don't...though admittedly her memory may be clouded by all of the alcohol consumption...;D

Next time we get together I'll be sober, so I challenge you to dissapoint me! }:D

xdamage
08-27-2007, 07:00 AM
You are aware that I agree with you? And so does yoda actually. And so do most of us. You are just arguing for the sake of argument.

Yoda doesn't kiss anyone's ass. He just isn't debating because he can. This is what he does.


Well, from my POV, it looked to me like the response about private contractors was just that, ass kissing. No new info added, just re-worded in a way to make himself look dancer friendly. On one hand you say you agreed, but on the other you praised Yoda's rewritten version and wrote the rest of us off as scumbags.

Guys suck up, and play one up-man-ship games, often unconsciously, because it works. Because women praise them for it, even if another part of them sees through it and knows they are doing it in some vague attempt to score. But being sucked up to is still an ego stroke, no matter how transparent.

The thing is on the pink side sucking up (or at least very careful phrasing) is required or a guy will quickly find himself banned if he doesn't couch his phrases in a way that are dancer friendly. But this isn't the pink side. Problem is there is a conflict of interest at play... If a guy builds a reputation for himself on blue that wouldn't be approved of on pink, he'll be ousted on pink too.

The thing is I'm not on this site to try and befriend dancers or to be sold to. There is a time and place for that, but this is not the place, at least not for me. This is a customer to customer discussion for me, and I like the honest discussions, free of shilling and free of having to couch every sentence in a way that is pleasing to a dancer that wants men to tell her how wonderful she is, and has an emotional tantrum if not. Now ITC and in RL, I'm as cordial as the next guy, but this is a neutral forum, not a dancer pick up site for me.

Now I know that you know all this Kat, and you have a lot of experience from both sides, at least as a dancer, and some as a customer. The downside to that is you can easily bounce from one POV to the other, and while that can be a good thing, it also can end up being that you switch into the pink mentality and take offense even when no offense is meant. There is often not much suckupery, but no offense either in much of what we discuss on blue.

As a total aside, what yoda argues is "re-hash of your agenda here and your attitude towards dancers in general" is another example of sucking up. I don't view dancers in terms of love'em or hate'em. There is a big grey area in the middle, where I rather like some more and some less; where I see that the industry has some positive sides and some negatives. My "agenda" on the blue site - honesty. What my agenda is not, is to try and make sure I write everything in a way that makes me look dancer friendly. That gives me the freedom to look at things without having to worry about, "will writing this result in my being labeled a bad guy by an immature hottie who has low self-esteem". If you want to call that an agenda, I call it an agenda of being honest and clear minded.

xdamage
08-27-2007, 07:06 AM
What the HELL is a histrionic. I guess I'm not smart if I don't know big mama words.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

...characterized by a pattern of excessive emotionality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affect_%28psychology%29) and attention-seeking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention), including an excessive need for approval and inappropriate seductiveness, usually beginning in early adulthood. The essential feature of the histrionic personality disorder is a pervasive and excessive pattern of emotionality and attention-seeking behavior. These individuals are lively, dramatic, enthusiastic, and flirtatious. They may be inappropriately sexually (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex) provocative, express strong emotions with an impressionistic style, and be easily influenced by others.... Women with HPD are described as self-centered, self-indulgent, and intensely dependent on others. They are emotionally labile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labile_affect) and cling to others in the context of immature relationships. Females with HPD over identify with others; they project their own unrealistic, fantasied intentions onto people with whom they are involved. They are emotionally shallow and have difficulty understanding others or themselves in any depth. Selection of marital or sexual partners is often highly inappropriate. Pathology increases with the level of intimacy in relationships. Women with HPD may show inappropriate and intense anger.



I.E. - what many think of as "drama queens" is often histrionic behavior.

xdamage
08-27-2007, 07:53 AM
So, in conclusion....no, the customer doesn't technically owe the dancer a penny for wasting an hour of her time. However, he is still an utter fucking douchebag that deserves testicular pain. And this, my good sirs, is a POV opionion following a FACT that simply does occur. Whether you believe it or not, it happens, ALL THE TIME!!!!!

Sure, this is douchery, and I don't think anyone disagrees, just that customers like slim, and FBR are talking about circumstances where nobody is mislead, just on repeated trips the dancers come to hang out for a drink. I do think slim has to be careful not to read too much into it, but I didn't get the impression he is conning them.

Still.. it's all about business. Does it make the guy a douche that he is benefitting by talking to a dancer, his ego is being stroked, even if any one dancer is not making a sale? Not in my mind and here is why...

---

People tend to only think about themselves, "am I benefitting", but you really have to look at the dynamics of the big picture to understand why a system works. And part of the reason the SCs are successful is because for many customer it's about the total experience. And a big part of that experience is that they go into this place, and have their ego stroked by dozens of women, maybe enjoy drinks, kick back, and for a few hours feel like a little king. They don't bring enough money to pay every one of them for every moment or compliment, but that's not their problem or concern. They go because there is sum total experience.

Now individually dancers will not make big money off of every customer, but as a group, they all benefit from a quality sum total experience because ultimately that's what keeps customers coming back time and again to spend money, and it's what builds reputation and brings in new customers. New customers who may well spend money on "your" type. And though many dancers are immature and get pissed off that they have to do something for apparently nothing in the short term, that's because they don't have the ability to see the bigger pictures, but if they did, they would realize that the demands placed on them to represent the club in the best possible light, and make all customers feel welcome and wanted does benefit them over the long run. This is just common sense good business. The sum is greater then it's parts and all that.

Unfortunately again we see one of the downsides of dancers being independent contractors. Too many have an every woman for herself attitude, and too many of them don't understand that when they don't do their part to make the club a great experience for customers (whether or not it leads to an immediate sale for them), their part of the problem that hurts the entire business and ultimately their own bottom line.

The thing is we see this in all business'. Young people who don't get the big picture, who don't understand that they are part of a team, and who don't understand long term benefits. All they understand is they are being made to work "NOW" and receiving no obvious benefits "NOW". Some grow up and out of it, and some remain immature in this way forever.

slims099
08-27-2007, 10:13 AM
If the girl wants to sit, she won't get paid for sitting, unless I have lots of extra money and we discuss something.

Lapaholic
08-27-2007, 11:19 AM
So i am a scumbag --- Hmm seems i have moved up in the world. U know the crazy things is in this thread is --- I think we all agree on the different situations discussed!!. But is is fun to debate how much we disagree on what we all agree on.. Reminds me of the book Catch-22!!!! ( Im thinking of the dialog between Sheisskopf's wife and Yossarian. They are having an argument over on the type of God they do not believe in - Luv that book!!! )

Katrine
08-27-2007, 11:46 AM
Reminds me of the book Catch-22!!!! ( Im thinking of the dialog between Sheisskopf's wife and Yossarian. They are having an argument over on the type of God they do not believe in - Luv that book!!! )

Heller is great!


On one hand you say you agreed, but on the other you praised Yoda's rewritten version and wrote the rest of us off as scumbags.

So I made on little snippy post, which was more a flirtation with yoda than a denouncement of the rest of you. Lighten up. And I'm not going to apologize for it either. I know yoda, and he's a rad person. And I made that post before I posted to you that we are ultimately in agreement, because we are.

Katrine
08-27-2007, 11:50 AM
Actually, I think she did it cause she wanted to do it. And would she do it if she knew I'd never spend another dollar on her again? Depends on the circumstance. Although I do agree, it's good business for anybody to give back to the customers.

You have further proven my point. Of course she wants to do it and doesn't have to do it. Not all salespeople care about customer relationship building. I certainly didn't give a shit about it, as a stripper. But you bet your ass I care about it in my current business, which has a lot more long-term earnings potential.

In stripping business, to hold onto a regular for a long-time, you have to play head games with them (most of them, not all). And you have to be willing to work out a regular "visitation" as well. I was unwilling to do either. But other girls thrive on guaranteed business. It works well either way, because selling lapdances has its own dynamics surrounding it, versus selling a home, car, computer parts, legal services, etc.....

Lapaholic
08-27-2007, 11:59 AM
So I made on little snippy post, which was more a flirtation with yoda than a denouncement of the rest of you. Lighten up.

I think we are just jealous!! :P

xdamage
08-27-2007, 01:16 PM
I think we are just jealous!! :P

I think the word you mean is "envious".

And I hope not. The worst thing that could happen to this site is it that it turns into the purple site, or pink-deux site because the guys here are running around so needy and wanty for dancer approval that they completely lose their ability to be honest, and walk on egg shells, carefully phrasing every sentence to avoid upsetting a handful of younger women. A site where everyone has to carefully phrase their sentences to appease the troll from the pink site who has it in her head that every guy is a PL and her job and right is to police our wording for dancer friendliness. I certainly don't want that.

And it's not a matter of trying to express oneself in a way to piss off the dancers. It's a matter of many of us don't care. We aren't here to pick up on a dancer. We don't feel any need for approval. It's nothing negative against them as a whole, but on the other hand we don't feel envious of the guys who do meet with their approval.

It's just a bunch of manipulation and the kind I can't stand in a relationship. Fortunately I'm in a relationship and have been for 25 years with someone that is mature and that doesn't act like a little girl. That type of behavior is simply not attractive to me. I go to the SC for the hot bods, but I don't go for approval or interesting conversation with someone half my age. Of course it's a possibility that could happen, and on occasion it has, but generally not because frankly too many of them are not that interesting.

I know a lot of guys think younger beautiful women are the most fascinating creatures on the planet. But I can 99% guarantee you that if you put those personalities into women's bodies who are 2x the age, and not so attractive, most of those same guys would not find them interesting at all. Now that's not to say that some of the women on SCJ aren't interesting at all. They are, but I also don't need or want their approval. And hey, if a customer wants to rewrite to get a doggy bone from a dancer, fine, do it, but some of us just think it's pathetic the degree to which some guys go to get approval from younger women. It's really not something to be envious, particularly since those younger women are often deep down thinking what a loser the guy is while at the same time handing him a doggy treat for good behavior.

Lapaholic
08-27-2007, 04:14 PM
^^^ U pegged me man. I want nothing more than Kat, Jenny, Eve and whatever pinkie to be my best internet buddy. I want them to PM me often and maybe we can exchange phone #'s and I can send them money when they dont make their required revenue for the month. Maybe, I can even attest my love for them on a website and spend $7,000 trying to track them down so i can marry them. Who would want that??? ( I think we all know the answer to that )

Dude I was joking. I dont think Yoda was pandering either. Just because a man on this site mite agree with a woman --> are we trying to get laid, are we infatuated, do we want to meet these people. No .. We are just discussing stuff!!! We have different opinions and life experiences that bring us to different conclusions. Some are more assertive - they may even be considered a troll but I dont see it.

Like I said earlier, there is mostly agreement o this thread which is - what is that word, someone here uses it a lot -------- oh yeah - Ironic!!

And I am jealous not envious ( JEALOUS - feeling resentment against someone because of that person's rivalry, success, or advantages (often fol. by of): He was jealous of Yoda because Kat liked him best. See it works!!!

evan_essence
08-27-2007, 04:33 PM
Jeez. This thread is not closed yet?? Hell, there's not that much disagreement here, just a lot of observations that don't align precisely because they're focused on different aspects of the topic.

Except X, of course. Your ability to see everything that is in disagreement with you as sucking up to the dancers or an act of trolling borders on paranoid schizophrenia. And, excuse me, hun, but you're critiquing Yoda for posting a rehash? Thank goodness you have avoided that in this thread and will continue to do so. ::) (Watch. He won't be able to keep his response under three times longer than my post.)

There, mods, have I stirred enough crapola to get the thread closed yet?

-Ev

mr_punk
08-27-2007, 05:57 PM
All part of the game it might be, but I can still accept it is bloody annoying to a dancer. She's got bills to pay and she can only do that by selling dances.
In effect Katerine's dochebaggery amounts to restraint of trade - if you waste a dancer's time with false promises of a dance, you've cut into her earning potential and that's wrong.
If a dancer has wasted two hours on a guy who's repeatedly promised to take her to VIP, then there might just be a justification for histrionics - he's just wasted 1/3 of the time she had available on that shift to earn money.LOL..restraint of trade? oh yeah, i'm sure the FTC will jump right on that. look, it happens to customers and strippers alike. yet, i don't see you pulling out a hankie to dry the eyes of a weeping PL, while patting him on the back and softly whispering empty platitudes in his ear. no, we tell them, "sorry, but it comes with the territory. now, learn how to be a smarter customer" or caveat emptor and all that good stuff. frankly, the same advice applies in this instance as well. like you said, it is part of the game and whether you like it or not. we're all free agents ITC and at some point they have to learn that no one is immune and the deal isn't sealed until one has either cash or ass in hand.

And to go back to the original point of the thread - there's a big difference between a dancer sitting down with a customer to 'chill' for a period of time with no expectation of earning any money, and a dancer sitting down with a customer and being given a false expectation of riches to come.yeah, and there's a difference between a sure thing and a gamble. you wanna gamble in a sc? fine, but you take your chances.

crizgolfer
08-27-2007, 05:59 PM
I want nothing more than Kat, Jenny, Eve and whatever pinkie to be my best internet buddy.

I am secretly in love with Jenny...uuuuhhh...did I say that??? Inside voice...inside voice..inside voice...

yoda57us
08-28-2007, 04:28 AM
I'm seriously suggestion a Men's Only section in the "Strip Club Junkie" section of the best exotic dancer community forum on the net. It's only fair. In the OP I specifically stated men only, yet women still posted anyways and aren't getting the point. This thread is a pure example of why we need a men's only section and should be noted by the moderators.

It is the best forum of it's type on the net...because the ladies participate.
Dude, I'm not seeing where you stated "men only" in this thread and it's a good thing 'cause it would have died a quick death four or five pages ago without the dancer input.

If you want to talk about dancers without any dancer interaction there are other sites where you can do that. That's really not what this site is about.

yoda57us
08-28-2007, 04:43 AM
As a total aside, what yoda argues is "re-hash of your agenda here and your attitude towards dancers in general" is another example of sucking up. I don't view dancers in terms of love'em or hate'em. There is a big grey area in the middle, where I rather like some more and some less; where I see that the industry has some positive sides and some negatives. My "agenda" on the blue site - honesty. What my agenda is not, is to try and make sure I write everything in a way that makes me look dancer friendly. That gives me the freedom to look at things without having to worry about, "will writing this result in my being labeled a bad guy by an immature hottie who has low self-esteem". If you want to call that an agenda, I call it an agenda of being honest and clear minded.

Clear, honest and open minded wears many hats X. What makes your version of it more "honest" than mine? I love women, I like dancers, by and large, as a group. Does that influence my posts? Sure it does in that I treat them fairly and don't judge them based on stereotypes.

If you read here enough you will find plenty of examples where I don't agree with something a dancer says or does. You will find it more often on the pink side than you will here. I have a realistic approach to what dancing is and the ladies who post here in blue pretty much confirm my beliefs for better or for worse. I'm much less interested in arguing about things that I can't change than I am in participating in an interesting discussion. If you expect me to say the sky is green because Kat or Jenny says it's blue you will never get that from me. However, to simply assign everything I say to the "dancer suck-up" category of your brain is really just taking the easy way out. Whatever works for you though...