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yoda57us
08-28-2007, 04:47 AM
Next time we get together I'll be sober, so I challenge you to dissapoint me! }:D

warning: Blatant dancer suck-up post ahead.

Carefull there Katchka, I've spent a lifetime disappointing women...but I willingly accept your challenge!
Note to self, Check airfares to Austin TX....}:D

xdamage
08-28-2007, 07:02 AM
Except X, of course. Your ability to see "everything"

Stopping at the word "everything" ... we've already had this discussion many times before where I've told you that you twist what people say into absolutes like "all", "everything", "never" and other absolutes, black or white, all or nothing. That was a discussion about a specific poster, throwing out a bit of nothingness, to suck up to Jenny (although there are other posters on the site that do suck up quite a bit it happens more on the pink side fortunately). There was no everything, or always, or everybody in an of that. Unfortunately if you don't understand concepts like "sometimes", "some people", "some of the time", etc., non absolutes, a lot of what I write is going to fly over your head, and a lot of what is going on in discussions like this will elude you. Sorry about that.

xdamage
08-28-2007, 08:14 AM
Clear, honest and open minded wears many hats X. What makes your version of it more "honest" than mine? I love women, I like dancers, by and large, as a group. Does that influence my posts? Sure it does in that I treat them fairly and don't judge them based on stereotypes.

If you read here enough you will find plenty of examples where I don't agree with something a dancer says or does. You will find it more often on the pink side than you will here. I have a realistic approach to what dancing is and the ladies who post here in blue pretty much confirm my beliefs for better or for worse. I'm much less interested in arguing about things that I can't change than I am in participating in an interesting discussion. If you expect me to say the sky is green because Kat or Jenny says it's blue you will never get that from me. However, to simply assign everything I say to the "dancer suck-up" category of your brain is really just taking the easy way out. Whatever works for you though...

Sure, I've read many of your posts where you do disagree. I never said you "always" (an absolute) agree. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that guys never suck-up for the sake of appeasing the dancers either. Guys do that too (at least some guys some of the time) because it's our nature.

Look there are many posters on the blue side that have written that they're not happy with the troll who derails many blue side conversations, and while it's cool if you agree/like the troll, the site is ultimately here for the customers to chat, and while the input from the dancers is interesting, this isn't CC.

Just because we customers on the blue side are not carefully wording every sentence to appease the minority dancer audience, does NOT mean that we are dancer unfriendly. Implying that we are, or that you are more so, is misleading.

Sometimes the guys just write what they write, locker room style, for the primary audience here which is the customers. I at least really don't want to have to word and spin every sentence to appease the one troll, or a few dancers who read this site. Now that is of course more appropriate on pink. But this isn't pink. There is always CC for the dancer-friendly version discussions.

And you may not see it, but some of us do, that more often then not our discussions are entirely derailed by one troll. You may like the troll, but some of us find it to be painful how often our discussions are derailed for the sake of the one, or small number of dancers who think this should be like CC or pink in general. If we all wanted to post using words that make the troll happy, there'd be no need for blue, we could just all post in CC where the mods can simply stomp out any wording that is dancer is unfriendly. There is a reason why blue exists separate from CC, and it has to do with who is allowed to say what, and how our views our worded. Again, if there really was no difference between what is written on blue vs what is required on CC there'd be no need for both. All I'm asking is please don't take my words, and add nothing to them, and rewrite them in CC friendly words to appease the troll.

If I had wanted to post my message in CC friendly terms I easily could have. I didn't for a reason, and I absolutely don't care if my words are pleasing to the troll's wish that she be appeased. I knew full well that my words would be slightly offensive to the troll. I don't care if she is appeased. I didn't write them for her benefit. This is a customer site for customers. We simply can't please all people all of the time, and my words were written for the benefit of customers who have the right to go to a club, enjoy themselves, and not worry about the dancers banking off every interaction between the customer and club employees and contractors.

I also have no issue with Kat as she clearly likes you, and it's cool that you like her back, and she is more often then not logical and reasonable. All of that is fine, but we are not all here to make sure our every post meets with the approval of the few dancers that read blue. We welcome them, but because this is blue, they are reasonably going to have to fend for themselves, and this isn't the place for fan-boys, or making sure everything is written in dancer friendly "supportive" terms. And if they really can't handle it, then they should stick to pink where the sentences are appropriately sugar coated, and "supportive".

xdamage
08-28-2007, 09:21 AM
It is the best forum of it's type on the net...because the ladies participate.
Dude, I'm not seeing where you stated "men only" in this thread and it's a good thing 'cause it would have died a quick death four or five pages ago without the dancer input.


True, although looking back it does seem that the key points were made after four or five pages. Many of the customers said in various ways, don't read too much into - it's still all about business. One could argue that except for drama, and duh info (like dancers prefer to be compensated for all of their time), not a lot was added.

And I'm guessing slim really means a "customer only" thread since some of the customers are female. I don't think it's really needed, but for a different reasons.

Based on what Jay and a few others have written, it appears that Pryce intends for this to be a dancer support site first and foremost. The SCJ sub-site was added to draw off customers away from that site. That doesn't mean SCJ was added for the purpose of drawing dancers to SCJ though.

It happens, but I don't get the impression that was the purpose. There is some cross-over between the two sites, CC on pink, and DD on blue, but I get the impression that the intent is that most dancers use pink, and if they decide to click on the bottom-most forum link and find their way over to blue... good luck. One can post in CC or DD depending on the intended primary audience.

I think as long as it remains clear that blue isn't pink, or CC on pink, if a dancer can cope with that fine. If on the other hand she finds our wording or frank talks, or customer oriented POVs offensive, she'd be better off heading back over to pink if she can't handle it. The majority of SW is already oriented toward her supportive needs, it's not like she has no forums to go to where she can read supportive threads from like minded people.

Phil-W
08-28-2007, 10:43 AM
LOL..restraint of trade? Look, it happens to customers and strippers alike. yet, i don't see you pulling out a hankie to dry the eyes of a weeping PL, while patting him on the back and softly whispering empty platitudes in his ear. no, we tell them, "sorry, but it comes with the territory. now, learn how to be a smarter customer" or caveat emptor and all that good stuff. frankly, the same advice applies in this instance as well. like you said, it is part of the game and whether you like it or not. we're all free agents ITC and at some point they have to learn that no one is immune and the deal isn't sealed until one has either cash or ass in hand.

Welcome back to the jousting yard mr_p.

But I'd draw a distinction between mild SS, and a full blown deception. Saying come back and see me a few times before I give you my phoner number is part of the game. Telling a PL you're got cancer and need $2,000 urgently is a different level of SS.

Ditto humming and ha-ing for another record or two before going to a VIP is one thing. Waving a wad of cash at a dancer and saving you'll spend $1,000 on her without any intention of spending a cent is another.

SC's are a place where one side manipulates the other, but there must come a point where the manipulation is beyond acceptable bounds.

I wouldn't get my hanky out for a PL SS'd into coming back and spending a few hundred dollars week after week. I might get it out if a perfectly health dancer told him she had cancer.


yeah, and there's a difference between a sure thing and a gamble. you wanna gamble in a sc? fine, but you take your chances.

There's a gamble and there's a loaded deck.

I might risk money in a game of poker - I wouldn't like to think I was in a game with a loaded deck.

There's got to be some practical limits on what's acceptable and what's not.

Phil.

xdamage
08-28-2007, 02:18 PM
And I am jealous not envious ( JEALOUS - feeling resentment against someone because of that person's rivalry, success, or advantages (often fol. by of): He was jealous of Yoda because Kat liked him best. See it works!!!


Not that we do grammar here (at least never seriously, only in jest), but it seems that the word Envy and Jealousy now mean more or less the same thing. Still I'm curious where you got that definition because when/where I grew up they had very different meanings. For example:

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/envious.html

" Although these are often treated as synonyms, there is a difference. You are envious of what others have that you lack. Jealousy, on the other hand, involves wanting to hold on to what you do have. You can be jealous of your boyfriend’s attraction to other women, but you’re envious of your boyfriend’s CD collection."

And another...

http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000301.htm

Jealous means "apprehensive or vengeful out of fear of being replaced by someone else." It can also mean "watchful," "anxiously suspicious," "zealous," or "expecting complete devotion." The last is normally applied to God.

Envy means "to bear a grudge toward someone due to coveting what that person has or enjoys." In a milder sense, it means "the longing for something someone else has without any ill will intended toward that person." Envy can be a noun or verb.




So on the one hand you are envious of what someone else has. For example, Envious that Kat likes Yoda and wish she liked you in a similar way. While on the other, Jealous that Kat likes Yoda because she already likes you, and it disturbs you that she likes someone else as much (or to some degree so) as she already likes you.

xdamage
08-28-2007, 02:28 PM
I wouldn't get my hanky out for a PL SS'd into coming back and spending a few hundred dollars week after week. I might get it out if a perfectly health dancer told him she had cancer.

What if a customer is there to have a good time, not worry about if dancers feel like they are getting a fair deal from the club or life in general, and they just want to chill, spend some money on their ATF, have a drink, and yet still some other dancers make a choice to spend a few minutes with them visit after visit, for the cost of a drink. Hey, he even buys her a drink or two to be cordial. Which is what the OPs post is about, and somehow was derailed.

And what if the customer becomes deluded and thinks that the dancer does this because she really likes him as a friend, and likes spending time with him.

See what is ironic is that if her prey becomes deluded and thinks she really likes him in some way that results in his spending money on her every trip, you can bet she is not going to complain or question that delusion too deeply because she benefits. But if her actions manage to delude him into thinking they are special friends, and it back fires, and he thinks of their relationship as something special because she just comes to talk for free or for a drink, she is pissed off that he is deluded because he is not spending.

I guess to be quite honest it just seems to come down to most people really only care about if the other party is deluded if/when they are not benefiting. If they are benefiting I really don't see many dancers caring at all if the guys is deluded and thinks they are really friends.

Lapaholic
08-28-2007, 09:01 PM
Not that we do grammar here (at least never seriously, only in jest), but it seems that the word Envy and Jealousy now mean more or less the same thing. Still I'm curious where you got that definition because when/where I grew up they had very different meanings.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/jealous

I add the part about Yoda...

evan_essence
08-29-2007, 03:39 AM
Stopping at the word "everything" ... we've already had this discussion many times before where I've told you that you twist what people say into absolutes like "all", "everything", "never" and other absolutes, black or white, all or nothing.Oh poo. I think it was fairly clear by context and what you know about my style of expression that the phrase "everything that is in disagreement with you" was satirical exaggeration, as was use of "paranoid schizophrenia." In fact, you could've just as easily dismissed my commentary by dismissing my assertion that you're paranoid schizophrenic. But you've got a boner for whining about use of sweeping generalizations.


That was a discussion about a specific poster, throwing out a bit of nothingness, to suck up to Jenny (although there are other posters on the site that do suck up quite a bit it happens more on the pink side fortunately). There was no everything, or always, or everybody in an of that.Okay then. What there is in your observation is ad hominem. You're trying to skew the argument in your favor by attacking Yoda's character via the assertion of dancer suckup. Likewise, using the word troll to describe Jenny. We routinely engage in name calling and insults here for our own entertainment (see above boner reference), which is generally accepted to an extent, but let's acknowledge that it has no relevance to the discussion of the issues being raised in this thread. So demount from the high horse (<-- more ad hominem) that you're always... er, frequently... er, currently on.

-Ev

xdamage
08-29-2007, 08:56 AM
You're trying to skew the argument in your favor by attacking Yoda's character via the assertion of dancer suckup.

We didn't really disagree about anything that was related to the discussion, so there is nothing to be skewed in that regard. As far as Yoda's points go he is generally right on as far as I'm concerned. If you had read what I wrote, you would have seen that there was no disagreement with the points. As I said, it just look like a re-write opinion, but in way that was more pleasing to the dancer (a little more frosting, but really the same cake). And it's not a character flaw when guys go out of their way to try and be on a woman's good side. We all do it at times, and often do it unconsciously. As strange as it may seem, I think Yoda is fine guy, but...

Still, this is a customer oriented site, it's not a dancer oriented site. There is a whole big pink site setup just for you, and lots of rules in place to limit anyone from writing things that won't approve with what you want to hear.

Look, it's not really a complex skill to write out an opinion in a way that will come across as dancer friendly as well as customer friendly. Mostly it's a duh on how to spin sentences that are friendly to the target audience. But the target audience here isn't the loud minority of dancers. It's the majority of customers. If I had wanted to spin my words to be dancer friendly, I could have easily done so, and do so over on the pink side because when in Rome... but again, this is a customer oriented site. The dancers are of course welcome, but still, it's not about you, or what the few dancers (or ex-dancers) want over here.

The point is that this is for customers to chat, and outside of the realm of pink's CC area. Not all of us want to be held hostage by two or three dancers that spend a lot of time on this site and are very verbal when they read something that they have even minor disagreement with, often not even that, just the way it is worded triggers them, and then you see customers having to word and re-word until they are pleased. Okay, well it's in our nature to try and please the women, but it also looks manipulative (on the part of the dancers) and kind of nutless (lacking a better word, on the part of the customers) after a while too when so many of the discussions end up being variations on the guys writing/rewriting their opinions to please the tiny minority. I'm just calling shenanigans on it (not that I expect anything to change as a result).

Svelt
08-29-2007, 04:34 PM
omg this thread is still going...

Umm when the girls sit with me, even if they like me and enjoy my company they are trying to figure out how to get a buck out of my pocket. Some do some don't, its not my job to keep score. My job is to have fun. Its their job to make money, whether thay can do it off me isn't my problem. We both have our respective jobs, so to speak, and really should concentrate on doing them, not bashing the other for not meeting our expectations. Free market.

yoda57us
08-29-2007, 04:36 PM
I also have no issue with Kat as she clearly likes you, and it's cool that you like her back, and she is more often then not logical and reasonable. All of that is fine, but we are not all here to make sure our every post meets with the approval of the few dancers that read blue. We welcome them, but because this is blue, they are reasonably going to have to fend for themselves, and this isn't the place for fan-boys, or making sure everything is written in dancer friendly "supportive" terms. And if they really can't handle it, then they should stick to pink where the sentences are appropriately sugar coated, and "supportive".

X, Come on dude, get of your freeking high agenda horse and just face the fact that SOMETIMES a customer and a dancer agree on things. Kat and I happen to agree on most things but I'm not tailoring my posts to make her or any other dancer happy. I post what I post from my POV because it is MY POV. Just because you don't happen to agree with it does not make it invalid.
I post in a dancer supportive way because I AM dancer supportive. I don't agree with you most of the time because I just plain don't. It's not as contrived as you are trying to make it.
Seriously can you carry on a single argument without resorting to this crap about suck-ups and trolls? It has nothing to do with the arguments that you try and shove it into most of the time. It's just something that you throw out there when we start disagreeing with you.
No woman who posts down here in blue is asking any of us to go easy on them. The fact is the ones who can't handle it do leave. The ones who stick around have as much right to their opinion here as you or I do.

xdamage
08-29-2007, 06:55 PM
Seriously can you carry on a single argument without resorting to this crap about suck-ups and trolls? It has nothing to do with the arguments that you try and shove it into most of the time. It's just something that you throw out there when we start disagreeing with you.


Obviously we are at an impass, however I was curious about this...

I just did a search of the site for variations on the word suckup, suck-up, suckupery, and other than this thread, I don't find any hits from me, so you'll have to refresh my memory that I "shove it into most of the time". I perhaps may have suggested that a customer grow a pair for other reasons, and I'm sure you have too; or perhaps you are mis-remembering. Anyway I curious as to what you've read (other then this thread) that validates your belief that it's "most of the time".

As for the troll thing... Jay has of course asked that st

Yes. I did. Thank you.

FBR
08-29-2007, 07:11 PM
Does anyone have anything left to say that is on topic? I'll check back in 10 minutes or so.

FBR

FBR
08-29-2007, 07:22 PM
Thanks to all for your participation.

FBR