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cameron_keys
08-20-2007, 10:39 AM
Just look at the commercials on t.v. who really jumps phucking double-dutch and sings "I wanna be one less, one less, o-n-e-l-e-s-s"

What? You dont do that? :sarcastic:

LuckiCharm
08-20-2007, 10:41 AM
What is this car thread CF keeps refering to?

britt244
08-20-2007, 10:42 AM
What is this car thread CF keeps refering to?

http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96463

BlackSheEp3
08-20-2007, 10:57 AM
You know what though, some people are always ready to diss (criticize) what they don't understand, especially when it pertains to "Black" culture, until they put their own spin on (a.k.a. whitewash it...YES I SAID IT!!!), or decide they can make money off of exploiting it.....just like rap music, our fashion, and our hairstyles.

Just look at the commercials on t.v. who really jumps phucking double-dutch and sings "I wanna be one less, one less, o-n-e-l-e-s-s"

I most certainly agree with your statement above.
:)

BlackSheEp3
08-20-2007, 10:58 AM
What? You dont do that? :sarcastic:

Nope not me.

leilanicandy
08-20-2007, 11:23 AM
I understand where the lanuage came from, and how it is broken english. I just do not like the fact that it changes , every one - two years.


Like for examples:

I was talking to this girl.
Girl: Thats whats up
Me: What do you mean?
Girl: Thats whats up!
Me: What are you talking about?
Girl: Thats good, That is whats happening, Thats straight,
Me: OOOh

Thats whats up! Is the same meaning as, thats straight. Speaking ebonics is like keeping up with the new slang. It seems like none of the words stay for permant use, If anyone can understand what I am trying my best to say!

Pure
08-20-2007, 11:24 AM
I swear, I don't mean any disrespect when I say this, but some people are so quick to cry "Racism!" What the fuck people? You don't have any idea wtf you're talking about; you don't know me for one at all then. I for one grew up with best friends that were black, my UNCLE who's my favorite uncle and the coolest guy ever is black. So shove it.




Just on a side note. If you are not a racist you are not a racist period. The old "I have plenty of black friends" thing is offensive to me. There are plenty of people who grew up around black people, have black friends, even family members , that are still racist in thier core beliefs. It's a terrible defense... This is not a personal attack but a lot of people do this and it bothers me. If you are not a racist than that thats all that needs to be stated- that fact that you know or are close to black people is irrelevant.

Sh0t
08-20-2007, 11:27 AM
without racism, what would comedians talk about?

fat chick jokes only go so far

Alia_of_the_Knife
08-20-2007, 11:40 AM
I swear, I don't mean any disrespect when I say this, but some people are so quick to cry "Racism!" What the fuck people? You don't have any idea wtf you're talking about; you don't know me for one at all then. I for one grew up with best friends that were black, my UNCLE who's my favorite uncle and the coolest guy ever is black. So shove it.

CF. I don't believe you are racist but I'm with Pure on this. Saying that you have black friends/family members doesn't really mean anything. It's played out, is cliche, and is almost kind of a joke at this point "I'm not racist... I have plenty of black friends..." I have met people who have married black people and have biracial children and are still racist. You can also not know any black people or be friends with any black people and not be racist.

I don't want you to take it as a personal attack or anything. It's just that if you are not racist there is no need to prove it.

Sadly, something tells me this thread is going to be shut down for being too poo-ish.

JustJayda
08-20-2007, 11:45 AM
without racism, what would comedians talk about?

fat chick jokes only go so far

I think "W" and his antics will suffice for a good while.

Tart
08-20-2007, 01:53 PM
If you read BOTH this thread and Black Sheeps's thread, you will see that nowhere did "I" say it was trashy. Other girls had posted in his thread that THEY thought BS was purposefully trying to make him self sound "dumb", and asked why he would even do that. THAT is why I posted that as one of the topics in the OP of this thread. Not because "I" thought it makes them sound trashy. Notice I have not said anything to that effect in my own thread. I was trying to present views that I heard in other threads from other people for discussion.

Maybe if you have such a problem with it then you should go to BS's thread about being reported by motorists, read who said what, and question THEM. Whether their views were racist or not, I wanted to include tidbits of what I heard to include in this debate.

So maybe y'all should read everything before you start slinging mud at an OP who was only trying to be all inclusive and trying to take derailing topics out of other threads and let the derailers duke it out in their own threads. No where in the OP or this thread or the other did I say "I" thought this that or the other.>:(

Whoa what the fuck. Nothing was even said that would cause this much defensive attitude.

Everyone on here is debating and aruging. point blank. You make a thread for people to state their opinions yet when someone says something you don't like you go this route?

come on

CuriousJ
08-20-2007, 02:20 PM
It doesn't matter how people talk I guess if that's how it works for you fine . So I guess Pig Latin is also a language ? My in laws are from Arkansas and I sometimes have to ask my wife "what did she just say " ? My wife responds " beats me " lol .

X Evan X
08-20-2007, 02:30 PM
I work at a mostly black club and the first time a black guy called called me "my nigga" it struck me as funny. Now I am flattered by it, seriously.

"Can I get your math?" (telephone number) ha that is great and I will be using that one. Buhleeeee dat shawt-aaaaaayyyy!

-E

Starfire
08-20-2007, 04:43 PM
I read only the first three pages before replying so what I'm saying may have already been said.
maybe I should quote the post by the other owner that I am refering to, but I really fail to see how being more "efficient" and "using less words" is a good thing. I personally think it sounds very lazy. To be honest ebonics drive me nuts. I don't think ebonics has it's own verb conjugations; to me it mostly seems like verbs just aren't conjugated at all I is, we is, you is....this kind of thing just makes me crazy.
Sometimes I try to avoid customers that look like they are going to speak this way because (and I am not kidding) half the time I have no idea what they're saying.
I don't consider ebonics another language (clever political ploy though) and definitely think of it as a dialect.
Talking about ebonics really is a loaded subject...

britt244
08-20-2007, 04:45 PM
Sometimes I try to avoid customers that look like they are going to speak this way because (and I am not kidding) half the time I have no idea what they're saying.

that comment is probably going to get a million cries of "youre a racist!" :-\ (im not saying you are)

G-Real
08-20-2007, 04:48 PM
actaully I have to agree with Starfire. While I work in an office that employs allot of low-income poepoe. A major percentage of these people speak ebonics, and i cannot understand them, therefore I cannot relate.

Don't get me wrong, I say Hi and all, but, I don't understand the vernacular. Though I am sorta insulted when one of my coworker tries to give me ebonics lessons to try to get me to speak it.....i think its more hey look at the white-boy speaking street

cinammonkisses
08-20-2007, 04:53 PM
Many people that I know who do speak ebonics can also switch to a generic, commercial accent if it suits them (ie at their job) and then can switch back again.

*waves hand in the air* :wave:

Yes, that would be me!

Starfire
08-20-2007, 05:06 PM
that comment is probably going to get a million cries of "youre a racist!" :-\ (im not saying you are)

Let me add this for claritys sake- by saying I avoid people AT WORK who look like they speak like this, it means I avoid people of every race. (White guys with your long white tshirts, backward caps and fake "bling" this means you!!) This is so not on topic but I feel like I can hustle better when I'm more comfortable communicating with the customer and don't have to ask for explanations every other sentence. Plus, and here's a whole other issue, sometimes people who speak in ebonics act like you're all "uppity" or something, regardless of whether you're black or white or they are black or white if you're not speaking in ebonics or slang or whatever.
I finally read the rest of this thread and I really agree with whoever was saying ebonics and hip hop lyrics are not the same thing.

Lysondra
08-20-2007, 05:36 PM
CF. I don't believe you are racist but I'm with Pure on this. Saying that you have black friends/family members doesn't really mean anything. It's played out, is cliche, and is almost kind of a joke at this point "I'm not racist... I have plenty of black friends..." I have met people who have married black people and have biracial children and are still racist. You can also not know any black people or be friends with any black people and not be racist.

I don't want you to take it as a personal attack or anything. It's just that if you are not racist there is no need to prove it.

Sadly, something tells me this thread is going to be shut down for being too poo-ish.

http://blackpeopleloveus.com/ What.. you mean.. they don't love me? But I'm friends with them! I not racist!

Rinna
08-20-2007, 05:46 PM
I think of Ebonics as a form of slang. I feel that languages are always changing to some degree and I don't see it as necessarily a bad thing either. At least not in every case anyway. All in all, Ebonics doesn't freak me out the way it does both racists and language purest.

It doesn't really confuse me because I never seem to have problem understanding the meaning of new phrases or terms as long as I hear or learn them in context, which is the majority of the time.

BlackSheEp3
08-20-2007, 05:52 PM
Let me add this for claritys sake- by saying I avoid people AT WORK who look like they speak like this, it means I avoid people of every race. (White guys with your long white tshirts, backward caps and fake "bling" this means you!!) This is so not on topic but I feel like I can hustle better when I'm more comfortable communicating with the customer and don't have to ask for explanations every other sentence. Plus, and here's a whole other issue, sometimes people who speak in ebonics act like you're all "uppity" or something, regardless of whether you're black or white or they are black or white if you're not speaking in ebonics or slang or whatever.
I finally read the rest of this thread and I really agree with whoever was saying ebonics and hip hop lyrics are not the same thing.

i blame all the Crap on the radio for all this (yes all that crunk and hyphy stuff, only good for dancing but other than that its nothing to me)....real Hip Hop used to exist but now its slowly dying. Honestly its all the "posers" who turned this way of speakage into a joke. I mean yes its slang....but some people exaggerate it to a point of no return. Just cause the "so claimed hip hop crowd" hears it on the radio they try to over emphasize it...
P.S. If you are ever unsure of a word's definition, urbandictionary.com can be your best friend.

JustJayda
08-20-2007, 06:04 PM
i blame all the Crap on the radio for all this....real Hip Hop used to exist but now its slowly dying. Honestly its all the "posers" who turned this way of speakage into a joke. I mean yes its slang....but some people exaggerate it to a point of no return. All my opinion here so take it as it is. It is what it is....

AHHHHH!!!!! Get outta my brain!!!!! This is exactly what I was trying to convey, with the Gardistat reference in a "roundabout" way.

In my opinion, marketing execs. have exploited us into a joke, now everybody is pissed?

"They" are the m'phuckers who sprinkle Black culture into any and every thing that that want perceived as cool.

Sprinkle some of that exotic "Ethnic Dust"(couple gold chains, or a hip-hop track) on a commercial, and little White kids will make mommy buy it.

Rub some of that good "Black Butter" on an car ad, and all the White guys are gonna buy that car, cuz Black men are cool by birthright, so when White "Brett" buys one, he'll be cool too.

I cringe whenever I see one of those commercials where White folks are trying to act and speak "Hip-hop" or "Black". Yeah...its so phucking hilarious....use our culture to make your money, then talk shit about us when you get home.

"Cool" is all a lot of Black folks had, and still have.

Nicolina
08-20-2007, 06:09 PM
I don't consider ebonics another language (clever political ploy though) and definitely think of it as a dialect.

It is not a political ploy. It is a linguistic reality.

Again: There is no real definitive difference between a language and a dialect, except that the word "language" is used to refer to the vernacular spoken by the "mainstream" culture, while "dialect" is generally used to refer to the vernaculars spoken by various subcultures (ethnic, geographic, or socioeconomic) within a given culture.

ALL languages and ALL dialects have their own rules of usage.

The only type of language that does not have strict grammatical rules is a pidgin (pidgin = a mish-mash of two or more languages, usually employed for purposes of commerce & very basic communication). When young children spend enough time exposed to a pidgin, they will create hard-and-fast grammatical rules based on the pidgin--at which point the pidgin, in that younger generation, becomes a creole, by definition. (A creole is a true language--or dialect, if you prefer--that is created by second-generation pidgin speakers, and conforms to a standard set of usage rules. This is truly fascinating linguistic stuff, btw. The phenomenon has even been documented among speakers of different sign languages.)

To iterate: The statement, "I don't think it's a language, I think it's a dialect," is essentially meaningless. Why? Because all dialects, just like all languages, have their own rules of usage.


To be honest ebonics drive me nuts. I don't think ebonics has it's own verb conjugations; to me it mostly seems like verbs just aren't conjugated at all I is, we is, you is....this kind of thing just makes me crazy.

First, I really don't care for the invented term "ebonics," so I will use AAVE in its place.

With all due respect, you don't think that AAVE conforms to a strict set of grammatical rules because you haven't read any linguistic studies of the dialect. There is NO CONTROVERSY on this subject among people who understand linguistics.
AAVE has hard-and-fast rules of usage just as SAE does!!!!

You guys can say you don't believe it til you're blue in the face, but you are simply just WRONG.

The question is not open to debate. It is not a matter of opinion.

You don't have to think it sounds pretty, you don't have to like people who speak it, but if you choose to be informed on the issue, you MUST acknowledge that AAVE does have its own strict rules of usage.

(And Starfire, I am not directing this at you specifically; the majority of people in this thread have said similar things, including some people who really should know better.)


Sometimes I try to avoid customers that look like they are going to speak this way because (and I am not kidding) half the time I have no idea what they're saying.

Which sort of supports the notion that it is a language--i.e. a dialect that is different enough from the vernacular you speak so as to be mutually unintelligible, at least "half the time."

Let me quote again a linguist from my textbook:

"No dialect is simply good or bad in itself; its prestige comes from the prestige of those who use it. "

In other words, your perception of the dialect is based upon your judgment of the people who use it. Since AAVE is primarily used by African-Americans, when you say things like this:

I personally think it sounds very lazy. (or any other negative judgment),

your judgment of the dialect itself can easily be confounded with your judgment of the people who speak it.

Hence the accusations of racism that have been bandied about in this thread.


Talking about ebonics really is a loaded subject...

Indeed.

Pure
08-20-2007, 06:39 PM
http://blackpeopleloveus.com/ What.. you mean.. they don't love me? But I'm friends with them! I not racist!

That site is funny as hell.So real.

LuckiCharm
08-20-2007, 06:39 PM
So what are a few of the "rules" of ebonics? Sorry if a link has been posted already and I missed it...I'm curious to see the list of rules.

Tart
08-20-2007, 06:50 PM
OMG Lysondra hahahahah dude that site..amazing

G-Real
08-20-2007, 07:21 PM
AHHHHH!!!!! Get outta my brain!!!!! This is exactly what I was trying to convey, with the Gardistat reference in a "roundabout" way.

In my opinion, marketing execs. have exploited us into a joke, now everybody is pissed?

"They" are the m'phuckers who sprinkle Black culture into any and every thing that that want perceived as cool.

Sprinkle some of that exotic "Ethnic Dust"(couple gold chains, or a hip-hop track) on a commercial, and little White kids will make mommy buy it.

Rub some of that good "Black Butter" on an car ad, and all the White guys are gonna buy that car, cuz Black men are cool by birthright, so when White "Brett" buys one, he'll be cool too.

I cringe whenever I see one of those commercials where White folks are trying to act and speak "Hip-hop" or "Black". Yeah...its so phucking hilarious....use our culture to make your money, then talk shit about us when you get home.

"Cool" is all a lot of Black folks had, and still have.

Its the business cirlce-of-life.....

sell to the group that has $$$, use another culture to popularize it, thus making money for super-rich (most likely) white-men in huge leather seats, mean while make sure your artists get some $$$ and points, but, most of it goes to the label).

Nicolina
08-20-2007, 07:27 PM
So what are a few of the "rules" of ebonics? Sorry if a link has been posted already and I missed it...I'm curious to see the list of rules.

I will have to search for some links; I can't take the time to copy whole chapters from my linguistics books here.

The rules are fairly complex, it's not just a list of things that can be summed up in some simple catchphrase like "don't end a sentence with a preposition" or some such...

Off the top of my head, here's one rule of usage:

There's a distinct semantic difference between these two phrases:

"He workin'"
and
"He be workin'"

The first, if I recall correctly, means that "He is working right now." The second phrase means, "He habitually works; he works every day." (I might have that backwards, though.)

To an SAE speaker, it sounds as though the speaker is randomly inserting the verb "to be" in a place where it "doesn't belong."

But to an AAVE speaker, the two sentences have different meanings.

See what I'm saying?

I just want to include a disclaimer here: The descriptive grammars I have access to are old--like, from the 60's and 70's--and language changes can occur pretty quickly, so I really don't know if this particular rule is still valid.

tootsie
08-20-2007, 07:44 PM
ebonics is nothing but ghetto slang. it sounds stupid.

BlackSheEp3
08-20-2007, 07:50 PM
AHHHHH!!!!! Get outta my brain!!!!! This is exactly what I was trying to convey, with the Gardistat reference in a "roundabout" way.

In my opinion, marketing execs. have exploited us into a joke, now everybody is pissed?

"They" are the m'phuckers who sprinkle Black culture into any and every thing that that want perceived as cool.

Sprinkle some of that exotic "Ethnic Dust"(couple gold chains, or a hip-hop track) on a commercial, and little White kids will make mommy buy it.

Rub some of that good "Black Butter" on an car ad, and all the White guys are gonna buy that car, cuz Black men are cool by birthright, so when White "Brett" buys one, he'll be cool too.

I cringe whenever I see one of those commercials where White folks are trying to act and speak "Hip-hop" or "Black". Yeah...its so phucking hilarious....use our culture to make your money, then talk shit about us when you get home.

"Cool" is all a lot of Black folks had, and still have.

I feel ya JustJayda, just like those mcdonald's commercials if you catch my drift.

LuckiCharm
08-20-2007, 07:53 PM
This whole conversation reminds me of something that happened to my dad...
My whole family is southern, and most of us speak with a really strong southern accent. Well, my dad used to drive trucks and he had to travel up north alot. He went in a gas station and went inside to get a bag of ice. When he asked the clerk where the ice was, she was like "the what??" because with such a strong southern way of talking it sounded like he was saying "oss" lol!
My point is, and this conversation actually is what made me realize, there are language barriers even within the english language. I can never understand someone with a really strong northern accent, and they can't really understand me most of the time. I don't think each should be considered it's own language, it's just something interesting that I thought I would mention.

Lysondra
08-20-2007, 07:57 PM
^ Wait until you discover there's accents within sign language! It's mindblowing when you both speak the same language - even silently - and can't understand each other!

The best thing to do is slow down, learn where the differences lie, and try to explain things in a mutually beneficial way. It can be hard, but man, is it a mind trip!

The Snark
08-20-2007, 08:07 PM
James Baldwin wrote:

There was a moment, in time, and in this place, when my brother, or my mother, or my father, or my sister, had to convey to me, for example, the danger in which I was standing from the white man standing just behind me, and to convey this with a speed, and in a language, that the white man could not possibly understand, and that, indeed, he cannot understand, until today. He cannot afford to understand it. This understanding would reveal to him too much about himself, and smash that mirror before which he has been frozen for so long.

Now, if this passion, this skill, this (to quote Toni Morrison) "sheer intelligence," this incredible music, the mighty achievement of having brought a people utterly unknown to, or despised by "history"--to have brought this people to their present, troubled, troubling, and unassailable and unanswerable place--if this absolutely unprecedented journey does not indicate that black English is a language, I am curious to know what definition of language is to be trusted.

A people at the center of the Western world, and in the midst of so hostile a population, has not endured and transcended by means of what is patronizingly called a "dialect." We, the blacks, are in trouble, certainly, but we are not doomed, and we are not inarticulate because we are not compelled to defend a morality that we know to be a lie.



http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/03/29/specials/baldwin-english.html

Dirty Ernie
08-20-2007, 08:14 PM
Wow! What a thread. I find it amusing people continue to post regarding their opinion on the validity of AAVE as a language when it's been addressed by someone with expertise in linguistics and another who quoted from an academic text. I'm not saying everyone's not entitled to an opinion, but this reeks of one of the "customer telling us how to do our job" threads. There just aren't 30 linguists on the board to gang up on everyone.;D It's been answered authoritatively, but some of the spinoff is quite interesting.

Nicolina
08-20-2007, 08:24 PM
ebonics is nothing but ghetto slang. it sounds stupid.


:banghead:


Why do I bother? :-\


But thank you, Dirty Ernie. I really appreciate that somebody's paying attention.

And thank you, Snark. I was going to hunt down that essay myself....I love James Baldwin so much, he was one of my very first writing idols.

BlackSheEp3
08-20-2007, 08:27 PM
ebonics is nothing but ghetto slang. it sounds stupid.

Simply an opinion, nothing more. Facts are facts and opinions are opinions....lets just leave it at that.

Nicolina
08-20-2007, 08:30 PM
Simply an opinion, nothing more. Facts are facts and opinions are opinions....lets just leave it at that.

Or let's just call it what it is and say that it is a WRONG-HEADED, UNIFORMED, IGNORANT opinion.

How 'bout that?

Okay, this thread is making me too mad now.

JustJayda
08-20-2007, 08:32 PM
:banghead:


Why do I bother? :-\


But thank you, Dirty Ernie. I really appreciate that somebody's paying attention.

And thank you, Snark. I was going to hunt down that essay myself....I love James Baldwin so much, he was one of my very first writing idols.

Please believe that your valiant effort/s are not in vain. I've learned plenty and I'm fluent in the language;)

Nicolina
08-20-2007, 08:34 PM
^Thank you Jayda!!! :-*

BlackSheEp3
08-20-2007, 08:34 PM
Or let's just call it what it is and say that it is a WRONG-HEADED, UNIFORMED, IGNORANT opinion.

How 'bout that?

Okay, this thread is making me too mad now.

I can agree with that, but no need to fuel the already started fire that is this thread.
Ima chill out, kick back, and enjoy me some peach cobbler layered over french vanilla ice cream.

*The above statement is really me expressing how i feel, no "gangster wannabe" or "trying to sound dumb". ;) pffft......=P

JustJayda
08-20-2007, 08:36 PM
I can agree with that, but no need to fuel the already started fire that is this thread.
Ima chill out, kick back, and enjoy me some peach cobbler layered over french vanilla ice cream.

*The above statement is really me expressing how i feel, no "gangster wannabe" or "trying to sound dumb". ;) pffft......=P

UMMMMM COBBLER!!!!!!!;D

Katrine
08-20-2007, 08:36 PM
I've learned a lot from this thread too! A shame that its gotten heated, but that's to be expected, it is a controversial topic.

Jayda, sorry, I have to ask...where can I get some black butter? It sounds so..smooth, dark, sinful, rich...oh my....... ;)

LuckiCharm
08-20-2007, 08:38 PM
Yea I've learned alot from this thread too...not just about Ebonics but about language/dialect in general. I fucking love SW.

JustJayda
08-20-2007, 08:38 PM
I've learned a lot from this thread too! A shame that its gotten heated, but that's to be expected, it is a controversial topic.

Jayda, sorry, I have to ask...where can I get some black butter? It sounds so..smooth, dark, sinful, rich...oh my....... ;)

Ur so silly...fortunately I am too;)
Here ya go

http://www.ehow.com/how_1068_make-black-butter.html

And this one is for all in the thread:
http://www.carolsdaughter.com/prodinfo.asp?number=13-0128&dept=1048

BlackSheEp3
08-20-2007, 08:41 PM
UMMMMM COBBLER!!!!!!!;D

Pretty lady knows whats up. :)
http://www.gfutah.org/gfcfrecipes/images/Peach_Cobbler.jpg
http://www.greengiantfresh.com/images/recipes/peach_cobbler.jpg
http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/051216/peach_cobbler.hmedium.jpg

JustJayda
08-20-2007, 08:49 PM
As my youngest would say, "cav shum monny"?

britt244
08-20-2007, 08:50 PM
i blame all the Crap on the radio for all this (yes all that crunk and hyphy stuff, only good for dancing but other than that its nothing to me)....real Hip Hop used to exist but now its slowly dying. Honestly its all the "posers" who turned this way of speakage into a joke. I mean yes its slang....but some people exaggerate it to a point of no return. Just cause the "so claimed hip hop crowd" hears it on the radio they try to over emphasize it...
P.S. If you are ever unsure of a word's definition, urbandictionary.com can be your best friend.

let me rephrase some of the statements i've made. the wannabes are the people who annoy me when they speak this way. not everyone.

BlackSheEp3
08-20-2007, 08:50 PM
As my youngest would say, "cav shum monny"?

haha too cute, i can seriously picture that.

BlackSheEp3
08-20-2007, 08:51 PM
let me rephrase some of the statements i've made. the wannabes are the people who annoy me when they speak this way. not everyone.

I concur.

LoveSexMoney
08-20-2007, 09:03 PM
black butter sounds delicious. I can't wait to try and make some.