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Farrah_Holiday
08-26-2007, 12:04 PM
Did you read his response to the question? He is saying that Vick is being villified because of his race and that this whole thing is racial profiling. IMO...thats "pulling the race card".

Innocent until proven guilty is one thing and I agree(although sometimes guilt is pretty evident even before it is legally proven)...but saying that the only reason people are pissed about this is because of his race is ignorant and a complete cop out. I for one, and most people I know, could not care less about his race. I only care about his horrendous cruelty.

I also find the double standard extremely offensive. If this was a white player and I said (which I would) the same thing...that he is a waste of humanity and should be strung up by his ballsack and killed slowly and painfully..Id be seen as an animal activist. But because it is a black player...I run the risk of being called a racist. Thats BS. Same crime...I'd be JUST as pissed at any white, asian,etc...person who did this and I despise the fact that I may have to defend myself against accusations of racism.


Look CK, as I said in my original response to your post where you tried to clarify your statement, that it wasn't necessary..I wasn't addressing you..As I said BEFORE I felt your arguement w/ the dude in the strip club was valid ! Why are you beating this into the ground ??!! I didn't call you a racist,nor did I call anyone else a racist...These once again are things that are being assumed.

I will state this yet AGAIN I was the 2nd person to respond to this thread ( because your threads are usually worth reading, so if I see one I'll go to it first, same as I do w/ other people I find interesting )
I was shocked at how many times people used the word BLACK and the NAACP in their responses..I was a little disturbed by the comparison of Imus and Vick..No correlation IMO..
I'm still waiting to hear from THOSE people...Not you !

I felt that "kinda' is not actually, there is a huge difference..I address that w/ you.
BLACK or WHITE what Vick did was wrong ! Just like people saying the race card is being is pulled is just plaing WRONG! Simple as that..

Farrah_Holiday
08-26-2007, 12:13 PM
Back on topic, an indefinite suspension is not the same thing as a lifetime ban. The NHL suspended Todd Bertuzzi indefinitely after he sucker punched Steve Moore from behind, causing him to lose consciousness and break vertebrae in his neck. Steve Moore has never played again. Bertuzzi was reinstated after a year and half (over which time, the NHL cancelled a season due to their lockout). The indefinite suspension is nothing more than a way for the league to delay their decision.

Vick has the ability to appeal for reinstatement after a year. It is predicted, Vick will end up getting 1-1½ years in prison. I would imagine the NFL would at least match that number meaning he would have been suspended about 2-3 years. Vick is still quite young and it's only a matter of time before he comes back to the NFL.

The good thing is he will also be unable to play in NFL Europe or the CFL due to agreements to deny access to players under suspension. But I do not believe a league like the Arena Football League has such an agreement with the NFL. And there's always other options available to suspended athletes like Pacman Jones who is biding his time in pro wrestling while under suspension from the NFL.

Great post ! I don't think Vick will disappear into the wood works after he serves his time. I can see him, going a route simular to Pacman Jones.
Vick has become accustomed to living in a manor that requires a great deal of money to upkeep. I'm sure he also has family members who rely on his income as well.

Farrah_Holiday
08-26-2007, 12:17 PM
I actually meant that to someone else in particular, sorry.

I don't know how I over looked this..I'm glad you found it in yourself to apologize. I appreciate it..I hope you can also take a step back and look at your posts w/ the same openness. We all make mistakes, it's the way we handle them that defines us.

cameron_keys
08-26-2007, 12:44 PM
Look CK, as I said in my original response to your post where you tried to clarify your statement, that it wasn't necessary..I wasn't addressing you..As I said BEFORE I felt your arguement w/ the dude in the strip club was valid ! Why are you beating this into the ground ??!! I didn't call you a racist,nor did I call anyone else a racist...These once again are things that are being assumed.

I will state this yet AGAIN I was the 2nd person to respond to this thread ( because your threads are usually worth reading, so if I see one I'll go to it first, same as I do w/ other people I find interesting )
I was shocked at how many times people used the word BLACK and the NAACP in their responses..I was a little disturbed by the comparison of Imus and Vick..No correlation IMO..
I'm still waiting to hear from THOSE people...Not you !

I felt that "kinda' is not actually, there is a huge difference..I address that w/ you.
BLACK or WHITE what Vick did was wrong ! Just like people saying the race card is being is pulled is just plaing WRONG! Simple as that..

I didnt say YOU called anyone racist...it was a general statement. Sorry if it came off differantly.

And the NAACP made the comparison to Vick and Imus. I agree they have no correlation to each other whatsoever and I'm honestly not sure what point they were trying to make with that.

cameron_keys
08-27-2007, 03:23 PM
Give me strength..Vick has issued a statement say ing he is sorry for his "immature" behavior and that through this ordeal he has found Jesus.

Yeah..torture and murder isnt horrrible or cruel..its just childish. Because children torture and kill animals...but not adults.

And found Jesus??? Is he kidding?? I'm waiting for him to invoke 9/11 next....

doc-catfish
08-27-2007, 03:28 PM
Give me strength..Vick has issued a statement say ing he is sorry for his "immature" behavior and that through this ordeal he has found Jesus.
Ordeal? If he's going to prison for this he's not going to know what "ordeal" means until he drops the soap.

Then he'll have found Jesus. :pray:

JustJayda
08-27-2007, 03:29 PM
Ordeal? If he's going to prison for this he's not going to know what "ordeal" means until he drops the soap.

Then he'll have found Jesus. :pray:

I doubt he'll have that many problems (suitors) when he drops the soap.....Ron Mexico;)

cameron_keys
08-27-2007, 03:31 PM
I doubt he'll have that many problems (suitors) when her drops the soap.....Ron Mexico;)

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...I forgot about that!!!!

doc-catfish
08-27-2007, 03:47 PM
Funny thing is, gambling on dogfighting is what got him here. They were describing on ESPN what life for MV would be like behind bars and one of the things they discussed was how popular gambling is in prison, except in prison instead of money they wager over other things.

This article goes more in depth with it, but this passage bears quoting:

http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/article.cfm?id=7717

All but one participant said they had gambled in one form or another while incarcerated and that they gamble for a wide range of goods - commissary, food, personal property, money and occasionally sexual favours.
:eek:

juggernutz
08-28-2007, 11:08 AM
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9376/vickjuryoe4.jpg

Farrah_Holiday
08-28-2007, 02:00 PM
^ LOL !! I love it ..HAHAHAHAHA

Andygirl
08-28-2007, 02:25 PM
The dude is a fucking psychopath with zero conscience and I think he should be put into a mental institution. Anyone who can do what he did is only a few crimes away from becoming a serial killer. Look at the typical serial killer profile, many of them start by injuring and killing animals. tsk tsk.

britt244
08-28-2007, 04:47 PM
they were discussing this on the radio today and it was amazing what people were saying. one black man called in and said that though he doesnt believe it has to do with race, it isnt right for people to say that he shouldnt play the race card. i guess i see his point, but i don't like it. he said people need to understand why black people are so quick to call race. but i just dont see how that's relevant to this at all. the people on the radio didnt, either.

another person called in and said thae we should be careful who we judge because one day something we do might be considered taboo. his example was that smoking was considered ok at one time, and after the surgeon general came out saying that it causes cancer, people still smoked. he said one day things that we all do might be considered "bad." but then he made some example about hooters and degrading women, so he wasnt making much sense to me.

i dont get why the guys let these guys on. they clearly disagreed with them, and no one was saying anything that seemed to be relevant, or even being really coherant. they were making fun of him saying he found jesus, and said he found jesus the same way paris hilton did.

britt244
08-28-2007, 04:54 PM
Apparently society thinks women can defend themselves, but dogs are defenseless...? *shrugs*

as for that.. i kinda agree :-[ not necessarily that a woman can defend herself, but she has more of a chance. and when a woman is tortured the same way those dogs were, that's different. but yes, the reason all this started was because of gambling.

crizgolfer
08-28-2007, 05:43 PM
Thats sorta what they are doing. the signing bonus is guarenteed money throughout the life of the contrack, but, is essientially given up front for expected performance.

You can't perform, you shouldn't get that part of the $$$.

The Falcons are going after the full $22 million, but more than likely they will only be able to recoup about $5 million of it. Still going after the whole amount is the right thing to do.

Vick will be cut next June. If they do it before then they will have to pay out most of his contract (this is info I picked up, not sure on all the details of his contract). Also, the Falcons owner has said that Vick will NOT play for the Falcons as long as he owns the team.

JustJayda
08-28-2007, 06:58 PM
Also, the Falcons owner has said that Vick will NOT play for the Falcons as long as he owns the team.

Not a shocker. If Vick plays again, it'll be for an owner with big balls, i.e. Jerry Jones etc.

G-Real
08-28-2007, 07:13 PM
Not a shocker. If Vick plays again, it'll be for an owner with big balls, i.e. Jerry Jones etc.

My money is on Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders;D

JustJayda
08-29-2007, 11:46 AM
My money is on Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders;D

yep^^^, another set of big ones.

I'm honestly not sure about my stance on Vick's ever being able to play in the NFL again, i.e. wrong or right etc.

I am a football fan, so what I am sure of right now, is I personally do want to watch him play again, he's a phenomenal athlete.

G-Real
08-29-2007, 05:18 PM
a radio station here made a good point, he will still be able to play, though he may loose a step in the time. However, like you said it will take an ower with huge ones to take him.

You'd get the wrath of the remainder of fans who don't like him. The visting teams fans who willdeispise him. Everyhome game will be picketed with Peta and humane society people. Would you want to deal with that, not to mention the overall PR nightmare of just signing him.

crizgolfer
08-29-2007, 06:29 PM
If he is truly sorry and does things to make amends then I would not necessarily be against him playing again (someday). We all make mistakes and sometimes they are real bad ones.

What I do not fall for are "I found Jesus" type of apologies on TV. That is PR plain and simple. He is not sorry for what he did, he is sorry becuase he got caught. That is not remorse in my mind. The only way he can truly show remorse are in his future actions and deeds. It will take time to prove himself again as a person.

G-Real
08-29-2007, 06:42 PM
If he is truly sorry and does things to make amends then I would not necessarily be against him playing again (someday). We all make mistakes and sometimes they are real bad ones.

No making a mistake is drinking under age, shop lifting, fenderbender, those are mistakes people make in their lives. what he did was just wrong, not to mention stupid


What I do not fall for are "I found Jesus" type of apologies on TV. That is PR plain and simple. He is not sorry for what he did, he is sorry because he got caught. That is not remorse in my mind. The only way he can truly show remorse are in his future actions and deeds. It will take time to prove himself again as a person.

I think this was straight from the lawyers, using my PR background (well none, though i did study it in college), 1st thing is 1-2 million to the humane society and 1-2 to another animal charity. After prison, then he can say he found god, because he was surely praying for him every day in prison. Next he has to become almost the spokes person for animal cruelty. And then even another1-2 million more to charities. Show us your sorry and you plan to correct your actions for what you did, don't just hide behind jeebus.

britt244
08-29-2007, 06:45 PM
hurting animals isnt a mistake. and how could he ever prove he was genuinely sorry for that??

and yanno... people pay for their mistakes. you cant take it back.

G-Real
08-29-2007, 06:50 PM
britt: he can't be sorry until he actually means it. i don't know if you saw his press conference, but, there was a serious lack of empathy.

britt244
08-29-2007, 06:52 PM
i dont believe he'll ever mean it. i was just responding to crizgolfer saying that if he was genuinely sorry one day, he wouldnt mind seeing him play again.

crizgolfer
08-29-2007, 07:34 PM
i dont believe he'll ever mean it. i was just responding to crizgolfer saying that if he was genuinely sorry one day, he wouldnt mind seeing him play again.

It would take quite a bit of time and good deeds. I am as appalled as anyone on here at what he has done and i think he is scum. I do hope he gets the maximum sentence. If he never plays again that is fine with me.

I also said I would not necessarily be against him playing again. I did not say I wanted to see him play. I would never be a fan of Michael Vick. If I were an owner or a coach of a team he would never play for me.

If he does his time and shows remorse THROUGH HIS ACTIONS (not hollow words) and someone wants to give him a shot, then so be it.

britt244
08-29-2007, 08:27 PM
^ ok, so i guess i shouldve asked.. what actions could possibly redeem him?

JustJayda
08-29-2007, 09:12 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/23/dog.fighting/index.html

Interesting.

cameron_keys
08-29-2007, 09:27 PM
Interesting.

Yeah..sadly dogs that have been used for fighting are usually put to sleep. They have been made far too dangerous to adopt out

G-Real
08-29-2007, 09:34 PM
Interesting.

ugh i ws flipping thru channels and stumbled upon Animal planet where ASPCA workers in Miami found a pitbull that was bred for fighting, he was so cute with poeple around, you could tell if he wasn't bred for fighting he would have been a sweetheart, but, as soon as he got near another dog he would tense up.

What really sickened me was that the owner had a bait-dog, another younger smaller pitbull that the big dog would fight to taste blood, get used to fighting, etc, it was heart wrenching watching this, and the owner didn't think anything of it.

Bob_Loblaw
08-29-2007, 09:49 PM
^ ok, so i guess i shouldve asked.. what actions could possibly redeem him?

There probably is nothing that could redeem him, especially in the opinion of those in the general public who are not NFL fans. No matter what he does (e.g., donate time & money to the humane society, public service, etc.), it will be perceived as nothing but damage control on his part and insincere.

While there is large outcry over his actions (and deservedly so), past experience shows it dies down over time. In a recent example, Kobe Bryant allegedly raped a woman but most assuredly cheated on his wife. The fans vilified him and he lost his sponsorship deals. However, after the media storm died down, he kept his mouth shut, laid low and concentrated solely on basketball. Eventually, the majority of fans came back to support Kobe the athlete and in turn, the sponsorship deals returned. While Kobe has not returned to the same heights of popularity, he has escaped relatively unscathed.

When it comes to the world of entertainment and sports, celebrities are not forgiven but their transgressions can be forgotten with the right PR campaign.

crizgolfer
08-29-2007, 09:53 PM
^ ok, so i guess i shouldve asked.. what actions could possibly redeem him?

Perhaps redeem is not the right word. Showing remorse may be better. I don't know that anyone can really be redeemed from certain acts. It is hard to say exactly what it would take. What he has done is quite horrid. There is nothing he can do to undo what he has done.

Perhaps things along the line of what G-Real pointed out. Giving money AND his time to organizations that help animals would be a good start. I personally don't think that just financial contributions is enough. Giving money is easy when you have it (although he has probably cost himself $100 million already).

If he does his time and takes actions such as above and can convince the powers that be (the NFL commissioner) that he is going to act in a positive manner in the future. If he can display that he will add good to society from that point onward and someone is willing to give him the chance, then go ahead and let him play.

Personally, from what I saw on TV, my feelings are that he is an arrogant athlete that feels he is entitled to whatever he wants. I do not think he will be able to accomplish this remorse. I am also not rooting for him.

My first post in this discussion did not really clarify my beliefs (that was my bad). I guess I am the type of person that is open to giving others (not just Michael Vick) another chance if they display that they can offer worth. My use of the phrase "everyone makes mistakes" was definitely not a good way to state my point.

cameron_keys
08-30-2007, 10:10 AM
What really sickened me was that the owner had a bait-dog, another younger smaller pitbull that the big dog would fight to taste blood, get used to fighting, etc, it was heart wrenching watching this, and the owner didn't think anything of it.

Thats very common. Pits are not born this way. It takes a LOT of sick twisted crap to get them to be this aggressive. I've seen dogs that were fed gunpwder mixed into their food to fuck up their brains and make them crazy. Its VERY sick.

It's also why you should never EVER let your animals run free or advertise "free to a good home". Pit fighters will look for those animals and use them for bait.

Farrah_Holiday
08-31-2007, 11:19 PM
My money is on Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders;D


I can just imagine that happening ! The Raider Nation is already off the chain enough as it is out here ! :D

Farrah_Holiday
08-31-2007, 11:24 PM
Thats very common. Pits are not born this way. It takes a LOT of sick twisted crap to get them to be this aggressive. I've seen dogs that were fed gunpwder mixed into their food to fuck up their brains and make them crazy. Its VERY sick.

It's also why you should never EVER let your animals run free or advertise "free to a good home". Pit fighters will look for those animals and use them for bait.

So true ! As a pit lover, I hate how this breed has been abused and stereotyped..I came across a beautiful blue nose girl earlier in the year w/ a white patch around her eye but, didn't get her because of attitudes in my neighborhood..:(

BalletBaby
08-31-2007, 11:55 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/23/dog.fighting/index.html

Interesting.

I'm not surprised. I used to watch Animal Cops and when a dog has been brought up fighting, it's usually too late. So sad:(

As for Vick, I think they should release all the dogs he used to fight on him and let them rip him to shreds. That may sound disgusting and harsh to some people, but what Vick did was disgusting and cruel. Actually, I think this should happen to animal fighters of any kind. Just let the animals tear them up>:(

BalletBaby
08-31-2007, 11:58 PM
So true ! As a pit lover, I hate how this breed has been abused and stereotyped..I came across a beautiful blue nose girl earlier in the year w/ a white patch around her eye but, didn't get her because of attitudes in my neighborhood..:(

Aw, that's too bad. I have a friend with a pit and she's having trouble finding an apartment right now. I don't think it's fair to not accept certain breeds. Any dog can be dangerous if it's in the wrong hands.

Farrah_Holiday
08-31-2007, 11:58 PM
As for Vick, I think they should release all the dogs he used to fight on him and let them rip him to shreds. That may sound disgusting and harsh to some people, but what Vick did was disgusting and cruel. Actually, I think this should happen to animal fighters of any kind. Just let the animals tear them up>:(

LOL !!

BalletBaby
09-01-2007, 12:11 AM
^ I believe in an eye for an eye. That's only fair.

crizgolfer
09-01-2007, 06:24 AM
Having Pit Bulls tear him apart is too cliche. Where is your sense of style? I am thinking more along the lines of locking him in a shipping crate with a few hungry wolverines. That would be cool.

They could put it on Pay Per View and the proceeds would go to Animal Rescue. Now, that is style...

G-Real
09-01-2007, 07:52 AM
Having Pit Bulls tear him apart is too cliche. Where is your sense of style? I am thinking more along the lines of locking him in a shipping crate with a few hungry wolverines. That would be cool.

They could put it on Pay Per View and the proceeds would go to Animal Rescue. Now, that is style...

Thats good but I think we need to take it a step further....as he's klnown as a scrambling quarterback, get 11 angry pitbulls on an enclosed football field, and have them chase him around, see how well he can scramble, if he gets taken down, take the dogs off him, and reset the play.....;D

Farrah_Holiday
09-01-2007, 08:07 AM
Thats good but I think we need to take it a step further....as he's klnown as a scrambling quarterback, get 11 angry pitbulls on an enclosed football field, and have them chase him around, see how well he can scramble, if he gets taken down, take the dogs off him, and reset the play.....;D

ROTFL ! Too bad that can't happen in rl !! :D

crizgolfer
09-01-2007, 08:27 AM
Thats good but I think we need to take it a step further....as he's klnown as a scrambling quarterback, get 11 angry pitbulls on an enclosed football field, and have them chase him around, see how well he can scramble, if he gets taken down, take the dogs off him, and reset the play.....;D

I like it. Let's see....John Madden can be the booth commentator. Geraldo Rivera would be fun as the sideline reporter. Who should do the play by play?

G-Real
09-01-2007, 10:06 AM
I like it. Let's see....John Madden can be the booth commentator. Geraldo Rivera would be fun as the sideline reporter. Who should do the play by play?

damn you, now I'm thinking of having john madden do color and to the telestrator at the same time....i can see it now...

"So here's Killer, and he does the run around the end and !BAM! he takes a piece out of Vick!".

crizgolfer
09-01-2007, 12:50 PM
^^^^

I think Howard Cosell would be perfect...with one exception....he is dead...

Dirty Ernie
09-01-2007, 02:03 PM
Don't let his death deter you: http://www.mrcinheaven.com/


This guy started out calling into the local sports talk radio station, went national, and now apparently turned it into a side job with costumed appearances. Good for him but the dead guy calling the radio show was a better angle than just another impersonator.

Bob_Loblaw
12-10-2007, 09:30 AM
Michael Vick sentenced to 23 months in prison. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/11/sports/football/11vick.html)

Pamela
12-10-2007, 09:42 AM
I'm not surprised. I used to watch Animal Cops and when a dog has been brought up fighting, it's usually too late. So sad:(

As for Vick, I think they should release all the dogs he used to fight on him and let them rip him to shreds. That may sound disgusting and harsh to some people, but what Vick did was disgusting and cruel. Actually, I think this should happen to animal fighters of any kind. Just let the animals tear them up>:(

Would be great wouldn't it. But, Dogs that fight, are very social with people, they are handled alot. They can't be adopted because they will tear another dog up. Also the state runs a risk of a dog with a background that they actually do not know. Hurting the animals, i.e. torture, etc. so they have to put them down.

M. Vick did not get enough time...he will be out on good behaviour, he chose to go in early to build up his brownie points already. But he wont pay ball again!!! FUCKER.

Sh0t
12-10-2007, 09:49 AM
tragedy for the sport of dog fighting

this thread has made me lol

as one of "them", I would like to say thank you.

I had to shoot a pitbull once that was chasing me in lovely ENY. But I still want one. I'm looking for an ugly puppy I can take in. he can play with my fallen oranges

Bob_Loblaw
12-10-2007, 09:54 AM
M. Vick did not get enough time...he will be out on good behaviour, he chose to go in early to build up his brownie points already. But he wont pay ball again!!! FUCKER.

The sad thing is that he will probably play again. He'll only be 29 if he serves the entire 23 month sentence and I find it highly unlikely the NFL will give him a lifetime ban. In the end, all pro sports are controlled by the owners and all too often money trumps social responsibility.

Star_bare_elegance
12-10-2007, 10:34 AM
yep^^^, another set of big ones.

I'm honestly not sure about my stance on Vick's ever being able to play in the NFL again, i.e. wrong or right etc.

I am a football fan, so what I am sure of right now, is I personally do want to watch him play again, he's a phenomenal athlete.



I agree^^^^^^^ although I may get attacked for this. I don't think his actions shouldn't ruin his entire career/life. Most people don't respond this strong to people on trial for rape and murder. Personally I feel sorry for Micheal Vick if he had any idea what the consequences of dog fighting would turn out to be, I believe he would not have done it. :-\ I have made plenty of mistakes and I will make plenty more. I pray none of my mistakes come back on me like this.

I like animals.......I just don't understand why the value of their lives seems more important than humans. For sometime now our society come across as a SAVE THE WHALES but F--- the homeless, the poor, our families , our neighbors, our children...... I don't mean to offend anyone... I just don't get it.