View Full Version : Pricing wisely
miabella
08-30-2007, 01:21 AM
i love when this topic comes up, because there is a misunderstanding of what 'opportunity cost' means among most of the (customer) posters.
also, at least in the economics you learn in school, there's ways to explain the non-monetary values of not doing dances for three dollars and a soda in monetary-value terms.
i find it telling that customers who themselves take non-monetary value of NOT performing a money-getting action into account regularly are very quick to call strippers dum for doing so, as if a lady could not possibly have thought through the financial and non-financial elements involved in the rejection of penny dances.
crizgolfer
08-30-2007, 03:59 PM
i love when this topic comes up, because there is a misunderstanding of what 'opportunity cost' means among most of the (customer) posters.
also, at least in the economics you learn in school, there's ways to explain the non-monetary values of not doing dances for three dollars and a soda in monetary-value terms.
i find it telling that customers who themselves take non-monetary value of NOT performing a money-getting action into account regularly are very quick to call strippers dum for doing so, as if a lady could not possibly have thought through the financial and non-financial elements involved in the rejection of penny dances.
I do understand "opportunity cost." My degree is in Economics. Keep in mind that in the question I was asking there was no talk of the dancer making less per song. The club I am speaking of does take a percentage cut of private dances. The club would get a smaller cut during these specials (not the dancer).
I was also asking for dancer input in regard to the club offerring deals that may bring cheaper customers in on SLOW nights. I was looking for their thoughts on this more than anything. Also, any advice they might have that could help bring people in and be dancer friendly.
Input on any experiences they have had with club marketing schemes (good or bad) would also be nice. I am not judging anyones anwers. Just using it for thought. I may need these ideas at some point.
SportsWriter2
08-30-2007, 06:53 PM
It would be nice if SC's could adjust their prices to find the top of the optimal price "bell curve" sort of like hotel rooms do.
The closest I've seen a dancer come to optimal pricing went something like this: "It's not that busy now and I really like you. I could do 2 for $30 or 3 for $50." :-\
cherry_sin
08-30-2007, 07:02 PM
The tricky bit here is that you not only need to know what your customers will pay but what your dancers will work for. Obviously, advertising uber-cheap dances will end up in a mini-revolt in the dressing room or boycott of dances entirely, such as when my home club started doing 3-4-1's on Mon and Tues. day shift.
An ideal idea would be to have 20 dances on the floor, then a LD room where you can buy blocks of time that work out to the dance being about 12-15 dollars a song. That way cheap dances DO mean a gauranteed extra few, not the chance of just 12 bucks, one song, that's it.
This is, of course, seperate from a CR, where a dancer makes MORE than 20 a song.
That's just my opinion though.
crizgolfer
08-31-2007, 12:33 PM
An ideal idea would be to have 20 dances on the floor, then a LD room where you can buy blocks of time that work out to the dance being about 12-15 dollars a song. That way cheap dances DO mean a gauranteed extra few, not the chance of just 12 bucks, one song, that's it.
This is, of course, seperate from a CR, where a dancer makes MORE than 20 a song.
That's just my opinion though.
Interesting idea (Thanks!). Anyone else have any opinion on this idea? Do you like it? Is there a way to tweak it and make it better?
doc-catfish
08-31-2007, 02:05 PM
Penny, I see where you are coming from. The price is the price. But it isn't always $20. Sometimes it's $40 (in lestat's area, for example) and sometimes $10 (in Doc C's area).
Actually, they're more in the $20-30 range. The clubs with $10 dances are upstate and are usually "hands off" ones done on the floor. Those same clubs have $20 dances in the VIP area. And I think Lestat mentioned that he's paying more in the $50/60 range sometimes.
I also point out that based on some of our TR's that Lestat and I live in different parts of the country where there are almost diametrically opposite principles in regard to how money should be spent. People around here are notoriously frugal on just about anything, so you can't really run the "if you can't afford it, stay home" argument because if you did there wouldn't be enough business to keep the ship afloat.
Trying to negotiate a dance price is lame and the guy comes across as a no money motherfucker.
Agreed, and while I'm not a person whom actively goes bargain hunting at the SC, there have been times when I've had to settle for the hourly 2-for-1 because that was the only time that a dance became affordable.
But I think that the OP was trying to suggest was that the clubs themselves alter the price structure of their dances to meet the apparent demand of the moment, or encourage multiple sales with package pricing, not encouraging case-by-case active haggling.
I do know of a couple of clubs in neighboring states that have "off-peak" dance prices during some of their less busy hours, although I point out that in those cases we're still talking 75-80% of the peak price. I haven't been to these places enough to know if such a measure is working for them.
doc-catfish
08-31-2007, 02:15 PM
The tricky bit here is that you not only need to know what your customers will pay but what your dancers will work for. Obviously, advertising uber-cheap dances will end up in a mini-revolt in the dressing room or boycott of dances entirely, such as when my home club started doing 3-4-1's on Mon and Tues. day shift.
An ideal idea would be to have 20 dances on the floor, then a LD room where you can buy blocks of time that work out to the dance being about 12-15 dollars a song. That way cheap dances DO mean a gauranteed extra few, not the chance of just 12 bucks, one song, that's it.
This is an excellent suggestion. I've pondered that 4/$70, and 2/$35 after that would be a good selling package. You only get the half price one if you buy three at full price. If you want out before you reach four you pay the full $20/song.
But I think the reason we don't see more of this is that a growing number of clubs are taking part of the LD money now, and they don't seem too keen on sharing the burden of a discount with their dancers.
michele_b
08-31-2007, 07:18 PM
This is stupid. Would we sell more? Maybe. Would we then work twice as hard for the same amount of money? Absolutely.
Sorry, but a strip club is no place for cheap-asses. And I wouldnt want to do anything to attract them. I'm worth full price. At LEAST. If you dont want to pay that, you are free to rent a porno,get a six pack and stay your cheap ass at home.
Couldn't be said better!! Fuck you cheap bastards >:(
miabella
08-31-2007, 08:38 PM
the price structures suggested pretty much would eliminate 500+ nights for all but a handful of dancers in a handful of clubs. at 20 a song with no deal-cutting, it's still quite doable, but not with package deals. it seems counterintuitive, but in my experience, a girl offering 10/100 in a 20/song club does not even get a guaranteed 1 taker on that. to a lesser extent, same for 3/50. they don't make so many package sales that they end up with more money.
the exception is if ONE dancer in the club does this, then she specifically makes a lot, but anyone else struggles to break 300.
crizgolfer
08-31-2007, 09:18 PM
The club which I am speaking of takes a cut of the private dance fees. If you work in a club where you keep all the private dance fee, then disregard what I have asked.
What if the discount came off the houses share of the private dance fee and not the dancers? That is what I am asking. It would bring in cheaper customers for sure, but would it be beneficial to you.
Here is the angle from which I am coming. This club makes money. It is VERY busy on Friday and Saturday nights, but the other nights of the week are pretty slow. There may be one decent night in there. Now, we have another avenue that would draw in GOOD customers, but it may not always be enough for slow nights and would be inconsistent from night to night.
So for those 5 not so good nights I have two options. One is to open the club for the night and the other is to close the club for the night. I have fixed costs (the costs of being in business) whether, or not, I open the doors. I also have variable costs (the costs of doing business) that I only incur if the club is open.
The goal is when I open those doors on those nights I need to make enough to cover my variable costs. If I do that I lose less money on the dead times (thus making more profit overall in the long run). Plus, if it give a bump to the dancers income I gain the bonus of happy dancers. That is what I am talking about. The dancers will make the same money if they can make the sales.
Does this change anything in your eyes?
rlams2000
09-01-2007, 07:16 PM
I've purchased one 2 for 1 special and the dancer was less than enthusiastic. Never again.
However, I do like when the club has drink specials.
jaizaine
09-01-2007, 11:11 PM
What if the discount came off the houses share of the private dance fee and not the dancers? That is what I am asking. It would bring in cheaper customers for sure, but would it be beneficial to you.
I dont see many clubs bearing the cost of this but I might be wrong.
I agree with Cameron, I dont think cheap customers should be encouraged. I would rather the club stay dead tbh. It only takes one or two good customers to make a dancer's night worthwhile and I'd rather that than 20 cheap asses getting to see me for a cheap price. It's our bodies and I just dont think it's negotiable.
As soon as a customer tries to bargain with me it's "next"
crizgolfer
09-02-2007, 12:12 AM
^^^^
Thank You.
Star Player
09-02-2007, 11:42 PM
I think it would be smart for clubs to offer 3 dances for $50. The bikini clubs in Cali offer $10 dances and Imperial Theatre in Anaheim you get to take the bikini gal to a private vip booth for 5 dances at $50 - my fav deal. Great full two way contact and lots of mileage. Last time out there on business had lap dances with an 18 yr old gal who is a CL at UCI, a very delightful experience with lots of good contact.
You know drinks are going to hit you for at least $25 so $50 for dances will wind up my stay. Sometimes I might just chill for an hour or two and enjoy cuddling and chatting. At Planet Lockwood in Billings, MT the dancers say hands and mouth to yourself so I don't take dances there anyway. Just chill and then hit the casino there.
Star Player
09-02-2007, 11:51 PM
This is stupid. Would we sell more? Maybe. Would we then work twice as hard for the same amount of money? Absolutely.
Sorry, but a strip club is no place for cheap-asses. And I wouldnt want to do anything to attract them. I'm worth full price. At LEAST. If you dont want to pay that, you are free to rent a porno,get a six pack and stay your cheap ass at home.
When I set up at coin shows I feel the same way about guys on the bourse who want to talk you down or just buy at wholesale. Afterall , I am paying a table fee to set up sort of like you pay tip out. Can't say I really blame you for wanting full price.
britt244
09-03-2007, 06:11 AM
I think it would be smart for clubs to offer 3 dances for $50. The bikini clubs in Cali offer $10 dances and Imperial Theatre in Anaheim you get to take the bikini gal to a private vip booth for 5 dances at $50 - my fav deal. Great full two way contact and lots of mileage. Last time out there on business had lap dances with an 18 yr old gal who is a CL at UCI, a very delightful experience with lots of good contact.
and again... what would the girl be getting of this? i know some clubs do it but its not my thing and i would not participate. even if the club took $10 off of those 3 dances, that gives the girl 40 for 3 dances with "lots of good contact." i get $40 for 2, with contact, but i wouldnt dance for less. would anyone else do a job for less just because they might be able to work more? nope. and if they would i feel bad for them!
Star Player
09-03-2007, 11:42 AM
The girls get free drinks, my company with intelligent conversation, contact info, and the potential to sell more dances. While out of town on business, I went to Spearmint Rhino in La (Torrance) they were giving 3 for 2 which is $30. Of course this is a bikini club but one rather attractive blonde California gal in a black bikini who I noticed at the bar noticed me too and smiled as I approached her and I bought her a drink, talked with her awhile, and took her to the dance booth and had 3 sets of dances with lots of good contact - so she got $90 for 9 dances plus a $10 tip when I gave her a Benjamin along with my business card. She seemed quite happy and a lot of my curiosity about Cali girls in bikinis had been satisfied, at least temporarily. Why go look at them at the beach? Had this been a $20 club I doubt I would have spent more than $40 on dances.
gingerlee
09-03-2007, 12:23 PM
The girls get free drinks, my company with intelligent conversation, contact info, and the potential to sell more dances.
Wow, where do I sign up for that? ::) Honestly, I can't pay my mortgage with your free drinks and conversation, so please don't make it seem like you are doing girls a favor when you do that stuff.
RoseLeigh
09-03-2007, 12:37 PM
Wow, where do I sign up for that? ::) Honestly, I can't pay my mortgage with your free drinks and conversation, so please don't make it seem like you are doing girls a favor when you do that stuff.
Amen! If I had to dance 9 contact dances for $90 full of 'great conversation', I might be driven to drinking all those free drinks.
cameron_keys
09-03-2007, 01:33 PM
Amen! If I had to dance 9 contact dances for $90 full of 'great conversation', I might be driven to drinking all those free drinks.
no..no..you're forgetting he tipped a whole $10!! And I'm sure the conversation was just riviting..the highlight of her night while they waited for the specials. Wonder if she ever called him...she must have..I mean $100, a drink AND conversation...what a catch!
miabella
09-03-2007, 01:43 PM
he's an idiot, but there are a lot of dancers who would consider it a good haul, same as the girls who start out with the highest contact they can because that's the only way they know to get repeat sales.
the whole problem is that there are usually too many clubs in a given area and/or too many girls working per club. so even a clever pricing strategy by individual girls can suffer due to simple numbers. and the whole discount-fever stuff clubs increasingly force on dancers doesn't help. nor does the whole poles in regular nightclubs thing.
Katrine
09-03-2007, 02:02 PM
Same, although if you are sitting around stuck in a building and can't go get another job during that time, and the choices come down to sitting around and making nothing for an hour, or making say 2/3rds or 3/4ths of your preferred pay, it doesn't seem so clear to me I'd choose 0$ over 3/4ths during that down time. OTOH it's very clear that many of the dancers have written (in more then one way) that their bodies are worth something to them, and they'd feel better not dancing at all then doing it for a reduced cost. I'll have to trust that if I was in their shoes, I'd feel the same way.
Actually X, you forgot to factor in medical costs. You know, the amount that the undercutting dancer is paying to the emergency room after the other girls have beaten her ass for undercutting.
It does happen, and once a girl is known to implement your EXACT strategy, action will be taken.
mollyzmoon
09-03-2007, 02:40 PM
I confess that I do the odd deal. It's never my offering, but some guys just do this thing where they say "will you do 3/ $50"? And if it's really dead, and the end of the night, and there is no one else around willing to give me money...then I will. I regret it sometimes, but other times for one free dance I get 6 or 7 normal priced dances. And then there are the lovely gentleman who just give me $50 for two dances- that's when I feel like a cheap whore for making deals with the other guys. But being a spineless, can't-so-no twit, this is what I sometimes do, I admit. Not as a rule though.
And I kinda think I am a higher earner at some of the clubs I work at...but I hustle a lot more than most. Maybe not 'wisely' hustle, as the case may be. In short, I'm always thinking in context of the night at hand: some nights I won't dance for certain customers for ANY money if I feel I'm doing alright. Other sad little nights I'll do the 3/ $50. I'm a utilitarian dancer, not a deontological one, but I can't say that my way is the smarter. It just works for me.
And also, not for nothing, $20/ dance is so convenient to pay. I would be bothered by all the change and stuff to sort around for $25/ dance. All those coins in my purse would be annoying.
Bridgette
09-03-2007, 03:15 PM
$20 has been the most common standard price for.....HOW many years??? Inflation works on everything but lapdances, it seems ::) I have NEVER had a problem selling dances at $20 or $30, up to $60 in the right place. If no one is buying dances at $20-25 at a particular club, perhaps the problem is that THAT CLUB SUCKS. Clubs that have a shitty clientele base and crap momentum will suck no matter what the price. Customers who want cheapass dances need to learn to put up or shut up.
doc-catfish
09-03-2007, 03:40 PM
$20 has been the most common standard price for.....HOW many years??? Inflation works on everything but lapdances, it seems ::)
Its not that inflation doesn't work on lapdances. Its that a lot of other factors to some degree have canceled out whatever justification there is to raise the price. If inflation were the only factor, dances ought to be selling like hotcakes right now since when you factor inflation in, dances are in terms of real spending power are getting cheaper by the year.
Of course, perhaps if the price of dances were to go up like the price of everything else go up, in small barely noticeable increments, say $1 per year, perhaps we would have $30 as the norm right now. As it stands, I don't see a lot of clubs selling $22, $24, or $27 dances. They love having that zero on the end (sometimes a five), and when you have prices rounded to the nearest five or ten dollars, it makes an inflation based adjustment seem like an extreme raise in price, even when the numbers say that the new price is justified.
xdamage
09-03-2007, 04:02 PM
Actually X, you forgot to factor in medical costs. You know, the amount that the undercutting dancer is paying to the emergency room after the other girls have beaten her ass for undercutting.
It does happen, and once a girl is known to implement your EXACT strategy, action will be taken.
LOL, but yea, no doubt very true.
britt244
09-03-2007, 04:38 PM
The girls get free drinks, my company with intelligent conversation, contact info, and the potential to sell more dances. While out of town on business, I went to Spearmint Rhino in La (Torrance) they were giving 3 for 2 which is $30. Of course this is a bikini club but one rather attractive blonde California gal in a black bikini who I noticed at the bar noticed me too and smiled as I approached her and I bought her a drink, talked with her awhile, and took her to the dance booth and had 3 sets of dances with lots of good contact - so she got $90 for 9 dances plus a $10 tip when I gave her a Benjamin along with my business card. She seemed quite happy and a lot of my curiosity about Cali girls in bikinis had been satisfied, at least temporarily. Why go look at them at the beach? Had this been a $20 club I doubt I would have spent more than $40 on dances.
i seriously laughed out loud at this. 9 dances would give ME 200 if the guy tipped me $20, not 100. thats pathetic. i would never do that. it just wouldnt happen.
oh yeah and do you go to work to drink? we dont. and believe me, no one cares about your oh so super fab company. we care about money or we wouldnt be working in a job where we have the potential to make tons of it.
miabella
09-03-2007, 05:05 PM
some strippers do go to work for the drinks, and like the fact that they can get tore up from the floor up on the job. any money they get is a bonus. the whole reason this guy thinks his approach is valid is that he gets stripper-takers for it. he's still an idiot, but he happens to run into a fair number of stripper-idiots, which is hardly suprising.
most people are average or below (more than half due to environmental factors, alas), and that includes strippers. which is why enough of them are happy working for drinks/drugs and 100 or so in dances for the night/day. the ability to get drunk/high at work has a high economic value for a lot of dancers even though it's not cash in hand.
Katrine
09-03-2007, 06:00 PM
LOL, but yea, no doubt very true.
Seriously though x. You are always making these types of points but you forget about other factors.
Believe me, I always want to make as much money as possible at work. But if I started doing $5 dances when it was dead, the word would spread quickly. Sure I may get some takers, but it would cause a very tense work environment to say the least.
Besides, when the club is quiet, and the guys aren't spending, its seldomly economic in nature. It often because they existing customers are a bunch of cheap asses that are enjoying the fact that they aren't getting kicked out, and attractive women are coming by their table every few minutes talking to them. It makes them feel powerful and in control. That's their kick.
Why would a dancer want to placate these fucktards and further enable such behavior?
xdamage
09-03-2007, 06:46 PM
Believe me, I always want to make as much money as possible at work. But if I started doing $5 dances when it was dead, the word would spread quickly. Sure I may get some takers, but it would cause a very tense work environment to say the least.
Isn't there a value between the extreme of $5 (or $1, or 25 cents, or whatever other extreme), and full price? Using major extremes is pointless since nobody was suggesting $5 specifically, or any other extreme low amount. My guess is everyone, myself included, was probably thinking something along the lines of at most half, and more like 3 for 2 pricing.
Besides, when the club is quiet, and the guys aren't spending, its seldomly economic in nature. It often because they existing customers are a bunch of cheap asses that are enjoying the fact that they aren't getting kicked out, and attractive women are coming by their table every few minutes talking to them. It makes them feel powerful and in control. That's their kick.
That's probably true of the crowd now, but the point of price adjustments is to bring in more of the crowd that does spend. See next point.
Why would a dancer want to placate these fucktards and further enable such behavior?
Because many businesses adjust their prices based on the time of day, even date, because it works. Many restaurants lower their prices by day. Many hotels do the same, and in convention towns, adjust down to the days of the week conventions are in town. Many amusement parks charge less during the off season. Many theaters have matinee prices. Many casinos have $5 blackjack by day, $10-25 minimum by night. All of these are entertainment venues, and they all know that adjusting prices is good business.
And sure, some customers will only come in during the hours when the service is cheaper, just like they will only eat at the restaurant by day, or when the hotel rate is half, or during the matinee. That's exactly the point. It's exactly why those business' adjust prices. To bring in those people.
And it sounds like your thinking that the demographics of who is in the club (after price adjustments) would be equivalent to the situation now before price adjustments. If so, that's just plain wrong. The whole point of price adjusting is to bring in customers who are willing to spend some, but entirely avoid spending anything because the full price hours are outside of their budget.
If every "entertainment" business that price adjusted took the ego view, and said, I refuse to lower my prices during the off hours because that would bring in the cheap people, they'd #1, make a lot less money, and #2 we the consumers who take advantage of those off hours would not have that option and would probably mostly avoid a lot of entertainment we do enjoy during the off hours.
Bridgette
09-03-2007, 08:50 PM
Remember point number 1. OUR BODIES AND MINDS ARE NOT AMUSEMENT PARKS OR A FUCKING SHOOTER YOU CAN SLAM IN 2 SECONDS. WE DESERVE MORE THAN SOME BULLSHIT "PRICE ADJUSTMENT".
gingerlee
09-03-2007, 08:59 PM
Remember point number 1. OUR BODIES AND MINDS ARE NOT AMUSEMENT PARKS OR A FUCKING SHOOTER YOU CAN SLAM IN 2 SECONDS. WE DESERVE MORE THAN SOME BULLSHIT "PRICE ADJUSTMENT".
A (FUCKING) MEN!!
miabella
09-03-2007, 09:01 PM
with dances, price 'adjustments' don't work! guys just then hold out for the discounted dance-time!
the only discount that works is a mini-dance or dollar dance, and then only under very specific conditions that are NOT the ones being discussed mostly.
if it's slow/dead/etc, a non-stupid dancer is better off holding out for some guy she can get 100 or 200 out of in one swoop than running around offering 3 for 2 or 2 for 1 or whatthefuckever cheapened dances. and frankly, when it's slow, it is actually more likely for a dancer to come out ahead from getting multiple full price dances or tips from a couple of customers than if she runs about offering discounts to every guy who comes through. this seems counterintuitive from a customer's view, but it is true.
Bridgette
09-03-2007, 09:13 PM
with dances, price 'adjustments' don't work! guys just then hold out for the discounted dance-time!
the only discount that works is a mini-dance or dollar dance, and then only under very specific conditions that are NOT the ones being discussed mostly.
if it's slow/dead/etc, a non-stupid dancer is better off holding out for some guy she can get 100 or 200 out of in one swoop than running around offering 3 for 2 or 2 for 1 or whatthefuckever cheapened dances. and frankly, when it's slow, it is actually more likely for a dancer to come out ahead from getting multiple full price dances or tips from a couple of customers than if she runs about offering discounts to every guy who comes through. this seems counterintuitive from a customer's view, but it is true.Yes, yes and YES!
Djoser
09-03-2007, 09:14 PM
...we deserve to make the amount that we do, more, really, because we are GRINDING ON SOME STRANGE, RANDOM DUDE'S CROTCH. we deserve to make way more than we do.
...if I started doing $5 dances when it was dead, the word would spread quickly.
These women should not be 'marked down!', 'buy one get one free!', 'reduced now for clearance!', etc. In an industry which enables men who get off on demeaning women to play their games all too well, this is a very dangerous tendency.
To the guys who rationalize their desire for bargain-rate lapdances, I would-propose this question: How much should your girlfriend, wife, sister, or mom charge to grind on that guy with the bicycle shorts and sport jacket over there, who thinks he makes them come when they do it, and will tell them all about it before, during, and after.
5$? 10$? 100,000$?
Katrine
09-03-2007, 09:18 PM
That's probably true of the crowd now, but the point of price adjustments is to bring in more of the crowd that does spend. See next point.
But clubs DO THIS! They do it all the time. I just wrote about it above. This isn't some new concept you just thought of X. And the clubs heavily advertise the specials to bring people in during off hours, and on off-days( Sunday).
Most of us have worked in these kinds of clubs, and are comfortable with this type of pricing because it is "uniform." Sometimes girls get away with charging full-price, and some guys are even willing to pay above the special rate.
So this is currently happening. There is $5 dance night. There are specials. What more do you want? Or are you just quoting me with long counter-posts just to kill time tonight? If you aren't busy, will you help me sift through my mail and throw out the junk?:P
Silverback
09-03-2007, 09:30 PM
http://www.econedlink.org/lessons/EM650/images/marketScheduleGraph_1.png
I'm sure that at the end of the day, no matter how much you try to factor in emotion, entitlement, desire, etc., that the graph still (different numbers, of course) still looks pretty much like this. There's a place where an excess of supply results in lower prices and there's a place where strippers going into a different line of work leads to an increase in price.
Bridgette
09-03-2007, 09:35 PM
Fuck Off With Your "entitlement" Bullshit. Just, FUCK OFF With It.
Silverback
09-03-2007, 09:43 PM
Fuck Off With Your "entitlement" Bullshit. Just, FUCK OFF With It.
Sorry, I wasn't sure what version of "deserve" to use in that place. ::)
deservitude ?
Bob_Loblaw
09-03-2007, 09:54 PM
It might be blasphemous for me to say this as a customer but if I happened to walk into a club with $12-$15 dances as their standard price, I'd question the type of club I walked into.
Picaresque
09-03-2007, 10:43 PM
These women should not be 'marked down!', 'buy one get one free!', 'reduced now for clearance!', etc. In an industry which enables men who get off on demeaning women to play their games all too well, this is a very dangerous tendency.
To the guys who rationalize their desire for bargain-rate lapdances, I would-propose this question: How much should your girlfriend, wife, sister, or mom charge to grind on that guy with the bicycle shorts and sport jacket over there, who thinks he makes them come when they do it, and will tell them all about it before, during, and after.
5$? 10$? 100,000$?
:yes: ! Thank you! Couldn't have said it better.
I can't believe people are still carrying on about how they should get $10 bargain dances, four fucking pages into the thread. ::)
Jenny
09-03-2007, 11:51 PM
May I recommend to everyone, in my capacity as a mod, that all y'all chill out a little?
RoseLeigh
09-03-2007, 11:55 PM
no..no..you're forgetting he tipped a whole $10!! And I'm sure the conversation was just riviting..the highlight of her night while they waited for the specials. Wonder if she ever called him...she must have..I mean $100, a drink AND conversation...what a catch!
:rotfl:Too true. I think part of the issue isn't just that these guys undervalue us, it's that they overvalue themselves! I have had some lovely conversations with custies, but they were never with the 'must have hand and mouth contact' crowd. And it never made up for a lack of tipping.
And Djoser, I think I love you.
miabella
09-03-2007, 11:58 PM
http://www.econedlink.org/lessons/EM650/images/marketScheduleGraph_1.png
I'm sure that at the end of the day, no matter how much you try to factor in emotion, entitlement, desire, etc., that the graph still (different numbers, of course) still looks pretty much like this. There's a place where an excess of supply results in lower prices and there's a place where strippers going into a different line of work leads to an increase in price.
honestly, you are completely wrong. the reason is that general price-reductions hurt dancers overall, including the dumb ones. AND IT HURTS CUSTOMERS TOO, INCLUDING CHEAPASSES.
if the dance price is 10 standard and converges towards 5 bucks due to 'slowness', this actually serves to bring in fewer customers AND fewer dancers (and the dancers are of lesser quality, whether this is looks or extras to you). running some 2/15 special isn't going to increase the customer base or improve dancer quality. it will just leave you with a bunch of pissed off ROB dancers and a bunch of cheap customers who aren't even as gracious as mr_punk. the customers who flock to 2/15 will rush to avoid buying drinks at a bar, will try to skip out of cover charge, etc, etc, for the club. and then they start skimping the girls.
and all that is just in a 10$/song scenario, which is supposedly so great and awesome and what girls should always charge or whatevs.
the convergence is different than if you're selling corn, sorry. that's just how it works, economically and all.
Jenny
09-03-2007, 11:59 PM
Okay in my non-mod capacity - I don't think there is any big surprise here. Customers think that we should offer deals, and are couching in terms of "but you'll make more money". It can't really be shocking that they don't actually know or care whether or not we'll actually make more money. What they care about is the hypothetical cheaper dances as well as demonstrating that our bodies have no inherent worth (no, not even twenty stupid dollars). Nor should it be shocking that dancers don't like having their bodies put "on sale" and don't like having that distaste characterized pejoratively as "entitlement". For us, in addition to opportunity cost and proper customer cultivation, there are issues of normal human dignity and pride (yes - we're human. How about that? How uppity and entitled of us.)
Bottom line - I think most of us relate anecdotally to the idea that very few girls who actually try to implement this actually outearn the girls who eschew it. If we noticed girls charging $16 for a dance and making $1000 a night, we might all take a little more notice. As it stands now - it's just customers rationalizing to get cheaper strippers.
miabella
09-04-2007, 12:12 AM
i think the problem is that the OP is pretty close to the normal customer, whereas the guys that give dancers the most money most consistently are not the majority of the pool.
i mean, the original post is a person saying that they spent 72$ on 12$ songs, but would not have spent even that much if the price per dance was 25$. even this is an anomaly. most such guys wouldn't get more than 2-3 songs at 12 per.
but where dances are 20 or more, most cheap guys get one or two, and/or stage tip or leave.
honestly, i hadn't even considered the originating post in my own comments, but upon rereading, that dude was REALLY CHEAP. heh.
i suspect, like me, that many dancers jumped in because 'wise pricing' for a dancer is always gunna be notcheap compared to what customers would personally prefer.
BrunetteGoddess
09-04-2007, 12:28 AM
God, this makes me embarrassed working in Tucson clubs where one club the dances were only $5 on the floor.... and people were STILL cheapos!
IsabellaRouma
09-04-2007, 12:29 AM
This is stupid. Would we sell more? Maybe. Would we then work twice as hard for the same amount of money? Absolutely.
Sorry, but a strip club is no place for cheap-asses. And I wouldnt want to do anything to attract them. I'm worth full price. At LEAST. If you dont want to pay that, you are free to rent a porno,get a six pack and stay your cheap ass at home.
AMEN!!!
shasta
09-04-2007, 12:47 AM
with dances, price 'adjustments' don't work! guys just then hold out for the discounted dance-time!
the only discount that works is a mini-dance or dollar dance, and then only under very specific conditions that are NOT the ones being discussed mostly.
if it's slow/dead/etc, a non-stupid dancer is better off holding out for some guy she can get 100 or 200 out of in one swoop than running around offering 3 for 2 or 2 for 1 or whatthefuckever cheapened dances. and frankly, when it's slow, it is actually more likely for a dancer to come out ahead from getting multiple full price dances or tips from a couple of customers than if she runs about offering discounts to every guy who comes through. this seems counterintuitive from a customer's view, but it is true.
I just have to say, I really agree with this.
jaizaine
09-04-2007, 03:46 AM
Okay in my non-mod capacity - I don't think there is any big surprise here. Customers think that we should offer deals, and are couching in terms of "but you'll make more money". It can't really be shocking that they don't actually know or care whether or not we'll actually make more money. What they care about is the hypothetical cheaper dances as well as demonstrating that our bodies have no inherent worth (no, not even twenty stupid dollars). Nor should it be shocking that dancers don't like having their bodies put "on sale" and don't like having that distaste characterized pejoratively as "entitlement". For us, in addition to opportunity cost and proper customer cultivation, there are issues of normal human dignity and pride (yes - we're human. How about that? How uppity and entitled of us.)
Bottom line - I think most of us relate anecdotally to the idea that very few girls who actually try to implement this actually outearn the girls who eschew it. If we noticed girls charging $16 for a dance and making $1000 a night, we might all take a little more notice. As it stands now - it's just customers rationalizing to get cheaper strippers.
Spot on!!